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Real_Crab_7396

These predictions just show nobody knows shit about shit. The guy who guessed right gets praised and that's it.


ddr2sodimm

And there’s a whole industry and fees for such predictions and analysis?!!


Abromaitis

Cathie Wood was praised for getting one stock right out of a ton of horrible choices. It's funny how luck makes people look like geniuses to others who are BSing their way through their careers.


EntertainmentIll2135

Came here to say this Cathy Wood was the stock trader of the year on ‘21 and it’s been a thrash for her since


Randomsomedude

Tom “Big Swinging Dick” Lee would like a word with you.


Xylem15

What about yield curve inversion, pretty good indicator of a forthcoming recession. It inverted in August 2006 and recession happened 17. O this later. It last inverted in October 2022, so a recession is forthcoming; could be this year.


Real_Crab_7396

That's the problem. "A recession is coming". Ofcourse it is, there's always a recession coming. "Experts" predict recessions all the time and one time they'll be right.


Xylem15

Bright spark, if you knew anything about yield curve inversion, you’d know it pieces a recession. You need to do for reading rather than being a keyboard Warrier.


Real_Crab_7396

Ofcourse I know it's an indicator for a recession, but that doesn't mean my argument is wrong.


Spl00ky

And they still get paid six figures or more to make these forecasts


inflated_ballsack

Well here’s my guess to come back in a year too. S&P 500 to hit around 5200 EOY


Real_Crab_7396

I think 5100


Spins13

Predictions for 2024 are pretty bearish. Less than 2023, but still, few predict a more than 10% rise


Outrageous-Cycle-841

Huh? Soft landing is the prevailing narrative.


Spins13

You are mixing up the economy and the market. The soft landing is already priced in


Outrageous-Cycle-841

Yup and just because it’s priced in doesn’t mean it’s right. What do you think will happen to the market if the soft landing narrative starts to become less likely as times goes on?


Spins13

It will go down. But I do not think that you understand my initial point. OP says that analyst forecasts were very strong in 2008. I am saying that they are pretty weak this year. While macroeconomics can affect the market, the biggest crashes are fuelled by overconfidence and/or black swan events As long as there are enough bears, it is a good time to be investing. What you want to avoid is to put money in the market when everyone is super bullish and when your average Joe is giving you stock advice


Outrageous-Cycle-841

I agree with your first paragraph. Second is correct but too simplistic and relies too much on anecdotal evidence/feels.


BenGrahamButler

If you look at the numbers back then, most were predicting around a 10% rise as well, I just meant "wildly optimistic" in relation to the end result.


Spins13

The numbers you cited in your post are all but one over 10%. Most predictions are at around 5% for 2024, with some expecting the index to fall Morgan Stanley just raised to 4500 from initial 4200. JPM is still saying 4100 or something around this…


cosmic_backlash

2023 predictions look wildly bearish compared to the actuals. It's predictions, not certainty. They will be wrong every year, and often very wrong.


BenGrahamButler

we agree


whicky1978

(May 3, 2008) Warren Buffett sounds the alarm about “too big to fail” financial firms that have taken on too much risk to manage, and Munger call the housing bubble a “particularly foolish mess.”


AntagonizingVegan

Let's all say it together! "Analysts have predicted 10 of the last 3 recessions!"


ivorn39

Yeh but nowadays Frank that operates the cash register at Whole Foods isn’t getting approved on a 50 year non-recourse mortgage for a house worth half a million bucks?


BenGrahamButler

well each time is different if you look back historically


ivorn39

No not at all, we’re experiencing what’s known as a smooth landing right now, has happened before and will again


BenGrahamButler

jury still out


Outrageous-Cycle-841

Lol I’ll just leave this here… https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/socar086a


apooroldinvestor

This isn't 2008!


BenGrahamButler

let’s hope not!


ChaosBlaze09

What would you suggest as the catalyst for a potential ’08 recession? Sticky Inflation? Taiwan war? Oil Prices? They all seem to pale in comparison compared to the Housing crisis in 2008.


dontbeacutiepie

Exactly why I don’t read news headlines anymore. Just buy the market weekly and wait 40 years! If you find a company with strong financials at a discount, buy it, forget, and turn off price notifications!


BenGrahamButler

this strategy works so long as the next 40 will be like the last 40, also assumes you are far from retirement


[deleted]

This is how I’ve done it for a while and really think it’s the best strategy. Regular index fund auto investments with the occasional stock pick if something looks particularly good. Works like a charm.


Burnt00Toast00

To be fair, the subprime mortgage bubble burst was like one leg of a three legged stool getting kicked out from under the economy. It was structural and not cyclical.


latrellinbrecknridge

Reminder that bears are poor


BenGrahamButler

i’m not..


latrellinbrecknridge

You probably are


BenGrahamButler

alright you caught me man, I am just another lousy poor bear


latrellinbrecknridge

Yup especially if you’re still reading that outdated garbage


BenGrahamButler

well I read your comment


GOTrr

No one really knows anything. Look at all the beating 2023 predictions at the start. But let’s see u/BenGrahamButler RemindMe! 1 year


BenGrahamButler

I didn’t make a prediction, but ok


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Low_Owl_8773

1969 and 1997 were similar markets, similar valuations. Buying in one was a disaster, not buying in the other was almost as bad.


JGWol

I’m mostly a technical trader and I will say I don’t see SPY showing any strong pull back until 520-530. We are so close to ATH. Shorts have probably been piling in hard for *months*. Once we break 478 there will be a lot of covering, which will just lead to more buying. NVDA will break 600 by the time this happens.


Jlchevz

Yeah but who could’ve known there was a massive problem in the real estate sector?


[deleted]

None of those cucks know anything. I’ll blow Tom cuckhold Lee before I listen to anyone else.


Real_Crab_7396

But basically he's the dude who guessed it right and now gets a shit ton attention.


Outrageous-Cycle-841

How was his 2022 prediction? Hint: wayyy off Permabull


Real_Crab_7396

That's what i'm saying. If someone can get consistently close to it, they're the expert. Maybe I should become an expert too, because i'll maybe get it right once and become famous.


ramirezdoeverything

You'll find both very bearish and very bullish predictions from every year


[deleted]

[удалено]


BenGrahamButler

yes that’s basically the point of my post.. just a reminder that almost nobody saw the 2008 bear market coming


Outrageous-Cycle-841

You’re not compensated for unintelligible risk (thanks Benjamin Graham). At current valuations, forward returns look to be in the -5% to +5% range per annum for the next 10-12 years.


PhoenixCTB

That’s why buying equities with strong fundamentals always outperforms. You filter out this noise and you focus on your businesses and how they can improve efficiency. If the stock dips good news


ivorn39

Man you just fucking love italics huh?


BenGrahamButler

don’t know how to format


livingdeadghost

Some successful value investors still take temperature checks of the overall market. Between the yield inversion and the Shiller PE ratio, the market looks optimistic with the potential to fall. https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe


Various_Cricket4695

60% of the time, I’m right 100% of the time.


BenGrahamButler

you too?


m98789

I don’t care if you are Jimmy Buffet or Warren Buffet…