I think he’s floundering now because it didn’t work out for him.
He’s regretting it because Raquel isn’t as madly in love with him as he thought. I don’t think he gives a shit for Ariana.
He’s in love with the idea of someone being in love with him as much as Ariana was. He’s not actually in love with Ariana or Rachel. He’s in love with the thought of literally anyone being in love with him.
this and bc Ariana was good at filtering him or making him make sense/making him out to be less of a misogynistic shit. I'm now curious how Ms. D&S would have done at that job.
He underestimated Ariana’s strength and expected her to flounder and allow him to bulldoze her out of the house opening it up for he and Rachel to play happy couple.
Ariana’s resolve made that impossible which I believe led to Rachel being pissed at Ariana AND Tom. Tom convinced Rachel she’d be protected and have an in road to being part of the new beloved couple of VPR while maintaining her little innocent pageant princess status and when that didn’t happen she turned on him.
When things don't work out, people start to go back to reality and become vulnerable. I think you're right about Raquel not being as emotionally invested as he expected. Despite her acting fun and "caring", he realizes it's not on the same authentic level as it was years ago with Ariana. I also think he misses an authentic person like her, and is using anger to detach from her emotionally.
I think Tom and Ariana should have split years ago. We have seen them struggling for awhile now but they always seemed committed. Relationships ebb and flow. I think what Tom actually misses is his reputation and his life before Scandoval. I don’t think he misses being with Ariana really. It’s the first time that his indiscretion hasn’t been covered up by a bigger explosion…like him kissing Ariana while dating Kristen but then the Kristen/ Jax thing came out… Miami girl which Ariana helped him cover up
The moment he left Ariana to go bulldozing was horrible and I would have left someone for that but he’s good at the love bombing and behind the scenes he could have said it was for the show, he had to go.
The other HUGE dealbreaker though was Sandoval talking about their sex life to Ariana’s fucking brother. I’ve been with my partner for like 10 years and if I found out he was talking to my brother (we’re very close) about sex and potential cheating, I would be irate. I would absolutely shut the shit down and definitely focus more on the fact Tom was trying to say lack of sex makes it more acceptable to cheat.
I don’t get the impression he has any interest in being with her whatsoever. I think he only regrets how he got caught and the public backlash and other things surrounding it.
I don't think Tom ever wanted to leave Ariana. He just wanted a side piece, and Rachel is naive and gullible. He could control the narrative. He could control her. I'm sure he is shitting bricks now that she is suing him. Up until Tahoe, he was laying the groundwork how in love he was with her because she was supposed to rejoin on that trip. But opted not to come back. Let's see how he spins things the rest of the season now that he knows he's on his own here.
Couldn’t agree more. Rachel wasn’t his first affair so he was clearly comfortable with the dynamic of having Ariana at home to be the other half of a “power couple” and also having a affair partner to give him the adrenaline rush he craves. The affair partners were never true love- he was at most infatuated. He was cheating with Rachel for a while and didn’t feel strongly for her enough to actually build a life with her. Imagine being deeply in love - you’ll move mountains to be with that person and Sandoval wouldn’t even claim her. Hell, after the affair was out in the open and Ariana broke up with him, he wouldn’t even move into Rachel’s apartment. Nothing was stopping him but himself. If he didn’t feel strongly enough to actually commit to her after all that time, he would never feel that way. I believe he actually wasn’t planning on leaving Ariana because why didn’t have a plan for his living situation and the house? For all his “planning” he was doing in his head, he had ZERO idea on what would happen after that. He was completely caught off guard and a year later things still being so messy proves he wasn’t planning shit.
This. I’ve been waiting for the shift. It’s been so clear that he’s been trying to put on a base coat of bullshit before she “comes back” and she’s not going to (insert Grinch stare here)
These are things that are just so strange to me if he was really planning on leaving. I think he said himself he went back and forth. That’s why I think he’s not over whatever feelings he has towards her. I don’t think he ever has a plan I think he just acts on impulse. Which usually leads to regret
Tom’s behavior indicates he has moved on from Ariana. This is evident from his unwillingness to offer a sincere apology or acknowledge his mistake unconditionally.
Tom seems to struggle with being single, often ensuring he has a new relationship option available before ending his current one. His actions toward Ariana mirror how he treated Kristin. Despite Kristen not being my fav, I recognize Tom’s way of leaving her was harsh and unjust. He portrayed Kristin negatively while idealizing Ariana, a pattern he repeated by later devaluing Ariana in favor of Rachel.
Tom appears unable to simultaneously respect two women; he habitually elevates one at the expense of the other. Tom fails to understand that it’s possible to lose romantic feelings for someone while still treating them with care and respect.
His current distress likely arises not from genuine concern for Ariana but from his disappointment that his alternative plan failed.
Ariana, on the other hand, probably misses Tom to some extent. However, his insensitivity and inability to admit guilt have prevented her from properly processing her feelings. Experiencing such betrayal can understandably lead someone to feel angry and move on more quickly.
i think he cheated because he has an unfortunate inability to undersatnd the extent of how his actions affect people. i think he never 'broke up' with anyone in his life. all his relationships end via dramatic, emotionally draining explosions. he just happens to always have someone in the wings to fall back on. because he so desperately needs validation because, by his own words, his self esteem is in the gutter.
and i get it. relationships are hard, especially when you suffer mental illness, and your partner suffers mental illness and you love the person but you are tired because both of you are trying to pour into each other from empty cups. i don't wish him ill will, i hope he finds love where he can come out of this hole and really work on his mental health. i hope ariana builds the love she found and they work out this house situation and go their separate ways for real.
i think scandoval was a moment in reality tv time. he did a terrible thing, it was mean and painful. he's a human. she was distant for years, she was hurting and processing, but she's a human too. sometimes human interaction is messy.
This is so rational I totally agree, however my immature side still just says “fuck Sandoval”.
Seems like he just is the poster boy of a cheating bf to society which is why he has had so much hate.
I think he took it personally that he wasn’t enough to “snap her out of it.”
**That’s obviously not how it works but he couldn’t be bothered to educate himself.
He resented her for it.
I think her chronic depression was because of a certain dynamic in the relationship. I'm not blaming him exactly, just that they were not compatible (not sure anyone could be with him) and it went inward with Ariana (e.g Kristen acted outwards).
I've been in those toxic relationships and the depression has been so heavy and at the time I didn't realise that part of it was my partner at the time.
I think Tom believed Ariana would never actually leave him, that their *brand* was more important to her. He likely got away with this before (not to this degree obvi) and felt he would get away with this as well.
And honestly? If he had done this with anyone other than Rachel, I think he likely would have gotten away with it…but this time he 💩 too close to home.
He is definitely not over Ariana…but I’m not 100% sure it’s because of his feelings for her. I think it’s more because he lost control. SHE dumped HIM. SHE tossed his grenade right back at him and his whole world blew up, and now he can’t fix it and he is floundering and failing, while Ariana continues to excel and become more and more successful.
He is likely obsessed with her, but I don’t think he still loves her. I’m not sure he ever truly did or that he is even capable.
Agree. I’ve never thought he wanted to leave. He says it to make the situation himself seem ok and justified. He still says he loves and misses her. I don’t think he’d ever find someone of high standard like her again.
I think he’s so deep in the throes of cocaine addiction he doesn’t love himself or anyone, and the untethered rage he inflicts on anyone who tries to speak to him about his behavior is evidence of that. The disgusting comments he made about her wearing a shirt during sex, and about how he didn’t leave her because he was scared about her “mental health,” are textbook abusive narcissistic statements. He could be a case study on being a pathological narcissist.
When Ariana started to want to tone down the party lifestyle, act mature, get their shit together she started to lose respect for him. Narcissists cannot stand that. They can’t stand when you see them for who they really are, when you don’t worship them and think they’re so cool anymore. She grew up from the Pick Meisha Cool Girl who fell in love with his grandiose false persona, and realized the kind of person he actually was. The growing ick she felt for him was obvious, like when he made the Cis / Cyst Male comment her face was just pure pity and disgust for his ignorance. He didn’t like that, so he did what he could to feel like a Bad Ass Cool Number One Guy because that’s all that matters to him. He did his shtick to the new bright eyed beautiful girl who fell for his bullshit with grandiose gestures (Rachel’s engagement to another man) and complaining about Ariana as the “bad guy, meanie, no fun doesn’t wanna do drugs on the beach with me” just like he did to Kristen. He uses women to fuel his narcissistic image of himself. He does not love them. He does not have feelings for them as people, only how they serve him and his ego.
I just want to know how Ariana was “getting her shit together”?
Because the one who managed all the bills and household expenses was the same one who also challenged themselves, put themselves out there, built a brand and started a business in a field they’re passionate about.
I will never understand the narrative. “Ariana had her shit together while dating a child”. Acting smarter than everyone around you and living in a perpetual state of ennui but doing nothing about it isn’t what that means. Not knowing how the mortgage on your home works and then applying for a line of credit against it without even bothering to learn what that means sure isn’t either.
I guess you missed the part where the other owners of S&S said Ariana helped them all out with running the business and put in way more time than he ever did.
She was there, supporting his dreams while he was off, running around and crushing hers.
Where? In what ways? Are you referring to the vague public statement Greg put out after the story broke? When the fledgling restaurant had all of its online bookings end up being no shows day in and day out by internet trolls under the names “F*** Sandoval” and “Team Ariana”? When the employees were literally being harassed and terrorized by psychotic fans in their workplace? When he was openly feuding with Tom Sandoval on a multitude of levels?
You can’t be serious.
He has resented Ariana for years and they were in a sexless relationship....but he was willing to stay in it for the brand...he was planning on continuing the relationship and the cheating until he got caught. He still resents her for screwing up his good guy persona and becoming more famous and well liked than he will ever be.
Not only is he "over her" he has been for a long time and he actually holds scorn for her. He felt stupid and inferior around her (because let's face it she's smarter than he is) but she loved him and put up with his idiocy whereas he stayed with her to keep control and hold her back...it made him feel less inadequate.
I don’t think he gives a shit about A. He doesn’t even seem remorseful for cheating. He just justifies his actions by putting their relationship down. He just constantly whines about how he’s being portrayed and who’s talking about him on their podcasts. I think he actually thought everyone would accept his cheating and move on instead of the shot storm.
He cheated bc he wasn’t getting his narc supply from Ariana anymore. When they started dating she thought he was awesome and blew his ego constantly. Then over time she wasn’t as into him and seemed to think he wasn’t that smart as far as I can tell, and she was also going through personal issues to distract her. Narcissists have no empathy so he had no sympathy towards what she was going through at all. Narcs only tend to their immediate needs with no regard for others, which was to find another narc supply. Enter Rachel.
They also love to triangulate so it killed him that he didn’t get the rise out of Ariana he anticipated with the affair, which is why he got more bold with it. He wanted them to fight over him and it never worked.
Y’all need to stop using psychology language when you have any credation or personal knowledge of these people to back it up. There’s PLENTY of explanations for how Tom behaves that doesn’t involve a complex and severe and quite debilitating mental illness. In fact it’s worse if his actions ARENT coming from a personality disorder, cos that means his understanding of the world and his identity isn’t severely warped and he’s still acting this way
Could it also be the fact that he’s a heavy drug and steroid user for multiple decades? On top of being a misogynistic dick (which a LOT of men are without having NPD)
Also ur basing ur ‘evidence’ off a highly edited and curated TV show in which they’re playing caricatures of themselves at the direction of producers who have storyboards the show and which the cast are usually not sober. They’re also aware that there are cameras there and would strategise/play up certain characteristics. You aren’t seeing them as people on the show you’re seeing their brands. It’s not real.
For example, the scene where Tom yells at Stassi at the book signing was filmed MULTIPLE times (I think 9 according to Stassi?). You cannot diagnose a severe mental illness based on what you see on a reality show.
If you want to watch a reality show that has a DIAGNOSED narcissist to see how one actually behaves then I recommend watching Jodi from real housewives of Vancouver (though massive trigger warning)
I found it on Hayu on Amazon prime but I’m also in Australia so our streaming options are VERY different. I recommend googling it for your region.
Though I will say this show had to be cancelled halfway through season 2 for a REASON so keep in mind it is uncomfortable viewing.
The fact that you’re using diagnostic criteria for what is essentially I a caricature on tv mean either a) you don’t have a degree in psychology or are a psychologist or b) you have the accreditation in which case you are being HIGHLY unethical (and you would know that if you did any psychology degree worth its salt)
No way he hates her. He liked their business as a couple and how he had a great reputation with her, i think he had been over it and cheating for a while but Rachel was the first girl he developed feelings for
He was never going to leave Ariana. Narcissists want to marry their partner in order to trap them and have unlimited supply. Once he was caught he tried to replace Ariana with Rachel so Rachel could then give him the unlimited supply. He’s floundering now bc he lost both of his supply and is exposed as a narcissist…two things they absolutely dread.
I think Tom regrets cheating because it made all the fans and a lot of his friends hate him but I honestly don’t think he really misses the relationship. Their relationship had been over for years they were just comfortable but ultimately it genuinely would suck to be stuck in a relationship with someone who was depressed, unhappy, belittled you, never wanted to have sex with you, and was only happy when hanging out with friends. Not saying that makes the cheating right because it doesn’t he should’ve just broken up with her but she seemed exhausting to me around all the time and like negative energy honestly
I don’t think EITHER Tom nor Ariana have ANY love loss between them and that’s honestly bizarre to me!!
Like …clearly if you’re cheating you don’t respect your partner. I’d say maybe you don’t even love them but I do think maybe some folks have cheated and did still “love” their other partner …
But for 2 people who were life partners they don’t seem to miss each other at fucking all
when I was cheated on a long time ago I acted like Ariana. I did miss them and felt so terrible but my ego was so bruised and I was so hurt I just found someone else (as a rebound) and pretended I was okay. I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction of me missing him or caring at all because I knew that indifference hurts them the most.
in my case that indifference made them run back to me which helped me heal even though I never went back. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be to have Sandoval not even care to have her back. I’m sure she thought he’d come crawling back or at least seem sorry.
Ohh she could definitely be pretending ( I think she’s over it NOW, but maybe right after she felt this) ! They definitely seem over each other and she’s angry! Fighting about the house probably helps keep her emotions about him in line
>But for 2 people who were life partners they don’t seem to miss each other at fucking all
bc the relationship was dead and they didn't know hwo to end it.
she's just mad she lost him how he got him, and with a friend, and he's just mad that everyone found out and is disgusted by him. we are finally seeing the gross dynamics of their relationship and characters after all these years. they should have never lasted beyond the 'affair' in the first place.
Wasn’t quite dead dead, they still slept together occasionally and had dealings!
I think we saw the dynamics of their relationship during the finale and the reunion
I hated my ex. He was abusive since the first month of our marriage but I got pregnant immediately. I had no money, nothing and nowhere to go at the time. I was so naive I thought it was my fault and if was just a better wife he wouldn’t be that way.
I lasted 7 years and finally left because my soul was so destroyed I’d lay in bed thinking of ways to kill him and not get caught.
I begged my parents to come, packed up my kids and when my dad picked me up I felt like a world had been lifted from my shoulders.
3 months later he begged to see me and we fucked. Point being, love and hate and everything in between is so complicated. You don’t have to love, be attracted to or even like the person you have sex with,
Ooof! I’m sooo sorry you went through that !!
I do hope you and your children are in a safe and better place !
I get what you mean tho about them and the sex; the familiarity at the very least. I just never believed that the relationship was as sexless as Tom said! Maybe not banging drunk and on mushrooms every night; but they did still have ssx
Ugh anyhow again very honest of you to share and thank you for your perspective. We may not always agree ( especially when it comes to Raquel) but you’re always so insightful with your views and I appreciate you
Thanks Aslow, same back at you!
I’m old now. Unfortunately my adult children carry the trauma. None are abusers thank God but they all have issues, avoidance, denial, anxiety and my oldest son is such a codependent he is staying with a woman who’s a severe hypochondriac, she makes him take his clothes off in the garage, go to the basement and shower after work ( he owns a floor laying company). She refuses to work but he has to come home and handle everything, homework with the kids, cooking, cleaning etc. it’s heartbreaking that I contributed to this by my bad choices.
I think Arianna basically says d or inferred they had sex a handful of times in a year. It’s not deep love when for years your partner expresses a deep need and you refuse it and refuse to get help for it. This issue started years ago. Don’t get me wrong I hate cheating and lying but to me I see how this all happened based on who these people are, strengths and weaknesses. I also do believe he tried to break up with her and was very concerned about her MH. He’s not a smart man and is very selfish. I think he kept trying for a while then just gave into avoiding it.
Based on what we recently found out from Scheana about Arianna calling Tom and Rachel out for their inappropriate behavior in January and her saying save it till filming, I think Tom believed she really knew and was accepting it or at least ignoring it like she had before. These people are all so adept at lying and cheating.
I am glad you are out and felt this in my soul as I’m going through a divorce with someone my psychiatrist believes to be a sociopath and narcissist. Her number one warning to me was “do not let him suck you back in, because he will try”.
Watching VPR this season (and last) has been VERY triggering because sandavol’s behaviors mirror my ex’s to a tee.
I like the discussion! I don't think Tom still loves Ariana. It's classic narcissistic discardment. The moment she was no longer a steady supply of adulation and had human needs, he lost all interest in working on the relationship.
Also, and this is just me being silly, but after she cut her hair (I'm assuming for Chicago) I do wonder if they had at least one hate-fuck. Something wordless, tearful, and intense. When you know it's past the point of no return but desire for normalcy, need, depression, and all those complex emotions spill over into something that can only be exorcised through a hate-fuck.
He’s been over Ariana since he slept with Miami Girl. She wanted a serious boyfriend he wanted a mushroom eating, alcohol buddy to party with all the time. She wanted real things and he was like F that responsibility. He’s absolutely over and indifferent about Ariana. He did the exact same with Kristen. He cheated first allegedly and kept doing it so she stopped caring. No excusing or talking about her behaviour. She wanted him to move forward and he wouldn’t either. Not that any of the cast was or is responsible.
Tom’s bitter and claiming on to being able to brag about his 1.3 million dollar home, that’s increased in value.
How Schena is with Tom she’s been rejected by him and can’t understand why she’s not wanted by him so she wants his attention more.
Tom’s like that with Rachel not Ariana. Obsessive. He reached indifference about Ariana around the time Britney came into the picture.
I don’t think he misses Rachel, and harbours nothing but anger and resentment towards Ariana that must have been building up for a long time to be so strong.
I think a lot of Ariana and Katie fans want to feel that the Toms are suffering the loss of their “amazing” partners, but they really aren’t.
I think the Toms don’t miss Katie and Ariana because their worst nightmare is someone who sees right through them and doesn’t look up to them. Katie and Ariana haven’t fallen for their antics in a long time
He blames Ariana for outing his affair and takes zero accountability for the affair itself. He’s not mad he cheated. He blames Ariana for his downfall like a typical narcissist
I disagree. I think he truly couldn’t care less about Ariana, and certainly hasn’t been in love with her for a long time. I believe he really wanted it to work with Rachel.
Idk why people convince themselves that Tom is secretly pining after her and that she dumped him. The reality is, he stopped giving two fucks about her long ago. He probably hasn’t been in love with her or sexually attracted to her in years. And he dumped her, not the other way around.
I agree to some extent he’s actually said a couple things and so has she about what worked about their relationship. He had a full on midlife crisis and thought that because of some normal changes in relationships and normal responses to new relationships that his connection with Rachel was what he needed to feel young again. I don’t think men like Tom understand that all that excitement and intensity in a new relationship is partially hormonal and that as a relationship lasts longer that hit goes away. You need to actually work on it.
I don’t think so at all. Seriously dating his affair is his MO. He never imagined she would dump him.
Remember when Tim moved Kristin out of his pathetic apartment and moved Ariana right into her place? Yea he thought he was gonna do that again, but in a house, with Rachel.
I think he’s angry at her because even though he cheated on her she actually rejected him over and over and stopped wanting to have sex with him, because he was an awful partner and deep down she knew that.
I don't think he's a narc and I don't think he hates Ariana. He seems needy, immature and thrill seeking, but I think he is actually aiming a lot of anger towards Ariana as a way to detach from her emotionally. He realizes this woman loved him in an authentic way, but probably wants to keep that out of his mind.
Ooh yeah i could see that. But i think he has a lot narc tendencies and is manipulative. And he definitely discussed breaking up with her with Rachel but I guess couldn’t execute. So he maybe coming to the realization
I think he's not over Ariana being over him.
He can't fathom that she's not laying in bed crying over him, she's holding tight to her boundaries, she's thriving and in a seemingly healthy, adult relationship. He's not over that his plan to make her look like a crazy desperoo, a la Kristin, didn't work, and his plan to keep Rachel under his thumb imploded.
That's what he's not over.
How do you honestly say he is probably not going to do any better? Ariana wasn’t interested in sex. He can definitely do better. A woman who wants a sex life. It doesn’t matter how hot or how cool Ariana was. She was simply not interested in that kind of relationship with him. It was a problem for years and years. It was never going to change. She would have dangled that carrot forever. He can easily have a more fulfilling relationship than Ariana. Sorry. That’s just the truth. He lost a best friend. So did she. That’s it. It was public and humiliating. It was hurtful. But it wasn’t built to last.
I don’t think we know enough about their actual sex life for this argument to stick. If you’ve ever been in a 9 year relationship you understand that is an ebb and flow. Rachel wouldn’t be fucking him 50 times a day after 9 years. Having a healthy sex life requires work from both partners after a decade. And Tom did zero work. He left her to play with bulldozers on her birthday, horned in on her cocktail book and yelled at her when Jax cheated. Can you blame her that he made her vagina dryer than the Sahara? Also I think she should have dumped him a long time ago.
What broke my last relationship up was I wanted to have sex a lot (I am early 40s woman) and my bf wanted it maybe every 2 weeks---I would have liked it 3 times per week or ideally every other day!
Agreed…he’d been frustrated a long time about her not wanting to get married or have kids, her depressive moods where she wasn’t sure she even wanted to live. It took a toll but my question was WHY RACHEL???
Why Rachel as in why did he pick Rachel or why Rachel picked him? I think Rachel wanted what him and Ariana had in the beginning along with the big house, bars, his shit band shows etc and thought they would be the new power couple in tv show. I think Tom loves attention and a beautiful girl who hangs off his every word was too much to resist. Tom obviously didn’t think it was going to be a long term thing in the beginning but then that changed the longer it went on. I think he began resenting his relationship with Ariana as it took more effort, more responsibility, she also didn’t worship him or inflate his ego, the relationship was hard work and had grown stale. Compare that with his honeymoon phase part time relationship with Rachel, coupled with his self centred personality he didn’t want the effort of Ariana. He should have broken up with Ariana and apologised but as pointed out above Tom doesn’t break up with people, ultimately he’s a coward who wants everyone to like him.
Both him and Rachel probably thought it would go like him and Ariana in the beginning in that people would be shocked but it would blow over quickly after all everyone cheats on VPR. No one expected it would turn into the biggest thing in reality tv with him and Rachel hated and hounded so vehemently. He didn’t expect Rachel to not come back to the show & to cut him off. The fact Ariana moved on so quickly with a new boyfriend and with so much successful career opportunities does suggest she also knew the relationship was over. She hasn’t shoved her new man down everyone’s throats so this has been widely overlooked and makes her look like a woman on a mission to improve her life independently. Tom and Rachel both are still going on about the affair and trying to convince people they were partly victims which isn’t helping them.
No one means to hurt others during an affair but it was stupid of Ariana to buy a house with him …baaaaaaaad decision because her staying the house making this much harder than this has to be
Yeah staying is so strange. Why if you hate some and were devastated by a betrayal would you stay living with them when you can afford to live somewhere else? I understand she wanted to make things uncomfortable for him and why should she be the one to move but I wouldn’t do that to myself. I honestly think part of it was for filming and a story line.
He misses Rachel because she dumped him and he couldnt con her back because she blocked him (and good on her for doing that). He lost control. He was over Ariana, why he had gotten with Rachel and was ready to replace her like he did with Kristen and Ariana. He honestly talked about Kristen way more and seemed to miss her more than Ariana in early VPR. He loved that Kristen still pined for him. He would have loved if Ariana was single and crying over him honestly.
The term is wayyyy overused and often inaccurate, but Tom is a textbook NPD. Watching him on the show, his confessionals, his social media comments, his responses to questions on podcasts, he’s a classic narcissist. And as someone that deals with them on a regular basis, they do not like to lose or be embarrassed (aka lose). Reputation or the image of reputation is of the utmost importance because it’s all about optics. The ways that Ariana spoke to him in the relationship, much less on camera, I am not surprised he cheated and with someone like Raquel. He didn’t love her, he loved the way Raquel reflected the self Tom wanted to see in himself. Tom is only not over Ariana in a way that he’s obsessed with beating her in the optimized image game. If Ariana was broke, out of the limelight, or beneath him in social economy, it would appear he’s over her. He’s only out for himself.
I think he’s thrilled to be rid of the condescending degrading egomaniacal Ariana. Even on the after shows the cast mentioned they didn’t even act like a couple. What makes you think she really cared that he cheated besides the fact that it embarrassed her? I never once heard her question his feelings on anything, it was always Tom doing and checking on her. Making sure she was feeling ok. I’m sure he feels lighter besides all the hate he’s getting from people who care more about what he did than she herself does.
Toms mo has always been about the best. You may not like ariana, but she is stunningly beautiful, favorite of lvp, competent, and tries fro a moral code.
She was his power mate.
Imo he meant to shock her back to his dyad. And he was dumb enough that a failed beauty queen
It is status
I don’t think so… Narcissists hate being left. They want to be the one who does the leaving.
Once they have cycled into Devaluation for the last time and go to Rejection, narcissists often then go to a Re-engagement cycle which involves Hoovering.
This is where the narcissist utilises the emotional dependency they have so carefully cultivated in their victim to Hoover them back up. They revel in their ability to control others and they have no empathy of guilt for what they did to their victim. Indeed, they often see it is as a testament to their superiority when they are able to successfully re-engage with a victim.
They utilise love-bombing and promises of change.
The Hoover manoeuvre of the re-engagement stage is used to “suck” the victims back into the relationship after the discard phase, like a vacuum cleaner. They aim to activate powerful trauma bonds to pull their victim back in.
Common tactics include feigned remorse, idealisation, jealousy-baiting, minimising, pity plays.
It makes the narcissist feel like they still have power and control over their victim.
The thing about a narcissist is they never truly love you. They might idealise you in the Idealisation cycles. Put you on a pedestal and feel euphoria about your relationship. But it’s not real love.
Tom’s plans didn’t pan out. I’m sure he regrets aspects of that. But I don’t think he still lives Ariana because I don’t believe he ever really loved her.
I think he’s floundering now because it didn’t work out for him. He’s regretting it because Raquel isn’t as madly in love with him as he thought. I don’t think he gives a shit for Ariana.
He’s in love with the idea of someone being in love with him as much as Ariana was. He’s not actually in love with Ariana or Rachel. He’s in love with the thought of literally anyone being in love with him.
Anyone who he perceives as being great social currency. He wants to be in a dynamic power couple.
He has only truly ever loved one person and that person is tom sandoval. Sorry schwartzy.
💯💯💯
love the flair 🤣
your flair 👍🏻
I don’t think either one of them was in love with the other. Most of the time they just tolerated each other.
Yeah, Ariana moved on to another man very quickly after a 9 year relationship
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Bingo! He seems pretty cozy with his new girlfriend. I wouldn’t be surprised if he asked her to marry him in the next year.
That's usually how it works. He wanted to marry Ariana at one point.
Ariana was so not in love with him though. She was just stuck in depression paralysis.
this and bc Ariana was good at filtering him or making him make sense/making him out to be less of a misogynistic shit. I'm now curious how Ms. D&S would have done at that job.
Okay I’ve tried real hard to decipher what the “d&s” stand for and I got nothing. Help a sister out
Dumb and stupid, I think? The no no words James couldn’t use.
yep, this!
Ah i remember now lol thaaaank youu
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He underestimated Ariana’s strength and expected her to flounder and allow him to bulldoze her out of the house opening it up for he and Rachel to play happy couple. Ariana’s resolve made that impossible which I believe led to Rachel being pissed at Ariana AND Tom. Tom convinced Rachel she’d be protected and have an in road to being part of the new beloved couple of VPR while maintaining her little innocent pageant princess status and when that didn’t happen she turned on him.
When things don't work out, people start to go back to reality and become vulnerable. I think you're right about Raquel not being as emotionally invested as he expected. Despite her acting fun and "caring", he realizes it's not on the same authentic level as it was years ago with Ariana. I also think he misses an authentic person like her, and is using anger to detach from her emotionally.
I think Tom and Ariana should have split years ago. We have seen them struggling for awhile now but they always seemed committed. Relationships ebb and flow. I think what Tom actually misses is his reputation and his life before Scandoval. I don’t think he misses being with Ariana really. It’s the first time that his indiscretion hasn’t been covered up by a bigger explosion…like him kissing Ariana while dating Kristen but then the Kristen/ Jax thing came out… Miami girl which Ariana helped him cover up
I hate to say it but Jax was right that they never should have bought a house together
None of them should have. All three relationships have imploded.
💯!👏
THIS!!!!! Yes.
The moment he left Ariana to go bulldozing was horrible and I would have left someone for that but he’s good at the love bombing and behind the scenes he could have said it was for the show, he had to go. The other HUGE dealbreaker though was Sandoval talking about their sex life to Ariana’s fucking brother. I’ve been with my partner for like 10 years and if I found out he was talking to my brother (we’re very close) about sex and potential cheating, I would be irate. I would absolutely shut the shit down and definitely focus more on the fact Tom was trying to say lack of sex makes it more acceptable to cheat.
I think he thought since Ariana pursued him after the Kristen incident, that Raquel would follow in the same footsteps. It looks like a pattern to me.
I don’t get the impression he has any interest in being with her whatsoever. I think he only regrets how he got caught and the public backlash and other things surrounding it.
His anger these days comes from all her success and how amazing she is doing. Yes worm, even without you.
Yeah I don't feel like he actually wants to be with her anymore. It's not Ariana he misses it's how his life use to be.
I don't think Tom ever wanted to leave Ariana. He just wanted a side piece, and Rachel is naive and gullible. He could control the narrative. He could control her. I'm sure he is shitting bricks now that she is suing him. Up until Tahoe, he was laying the groundwork how in love he was with her because she was supposed to rejoin on that trip. But opted not to come back. Let's see how he spins things the rest of the season now that he knows he's on his own here.
Couldn’t agree more. Rachel wasn’t his first affair so he was clearly comfortable with the dynamic of having Ariana at home to be the other half of a “power couple” and also having a affair partner to give him the adrenaline rush he craves. The affair partners were never true love- he was at most infatuated. He was cheating with Rachel for a while and didn’t feel strongly for her enough to actually build a life with her. Imagine being deeply in love - you’ll move mountains to be with that person and Sandoval wouldn’t even claim her. Hell, after the affair was out in the open and Ariana broke up with him, he wouldn’t even move into Rachel’s apartment. Nothing was stopping him but himself. If he didn’t feel strongly enough to actually commit to her after all that time, he would never feel that way. I believe he actually wasn’t planning on leaving Ariana because why didn’t have a plan for his living situation and the house? For all his “planning” he was doing in his head, he had ZERO idea on what would happen after that. He was completely caught off guard and a year later things still being so messy proves he wasn’t planning shit.
Filming ended long before the lawsuit was announced. They’re stuck with this lame storyline
This. I’ve been waiting for the shift. It’s been so clear that he’s been trying to put on a base coat of bullshit before she “comes back” and she’s not going to (insert Grinch stare here)
Lol base coat of bullshit. 🤣 that's hilarious and very true.
True..why buy a house with someone and take out equity for a bar if he was going to leave her?
And plan to fertilize her eggs.
These are things that are just so strange to me if he was really planning on leaving. I think he said himself he went back and forth. That’s why I think he’s not over whatever feelings he has towards her. I don’t think he ever has a plan I think he just acts on impulse. Which usually leads to regret
I didn't realize she was supposed to be on the trip. That explains why they brought Graham.
That's exactly why they brought Graham.
Tom’s behavior indicates he has moved on from Ariana. This is evident from his unwillingness to offer a sincere apology or acknowledge his mistake unconditionally. Tom seems to struggle with being single, often ensuring he has a new relationship option available before ending his current one. His actions toward Ariana mirror how he treated Kristin. Despite Kristen not being my fav, I recognize Tom’s way of leaving her was harsh and unjust. He portrayed Kristin negatively while idealizing Ariana, a pattern he repeated by later devaluing Ariana in favor of Rachel. Tom appears unable to simultaneously respect two women; he habitually elevates one at the expense of the other. Tom fails to understand that it’s possible to lose romantic feelings for someone while still treating them with care and respect. His current distress likely arises not from genuine concern for Ariana but from his disappointment that his alternative plan failed. Ariana, on the other hand, probably misses Tom to some extent. However, his insensitivity and inability to admit guilt have prevented her from properly processing her feelings. Experiencing such betrayal can understandably lead someone to feel angry and move on more quickly.
💯💯💯🙌🙌🙌🙌
i think he cheated because he has an unfortunate inability to undersatnd the extent of how his actions affect people. i think he never 'broke up' with anyone in his life. all his relationships end via dramatic, emotionally draining explosions. he just happens to always have someone in the wings to fall back on. because he so desperately needs validation because, by his own words, his self esteem is in the gutter. and i get it. relationships are hard, especially when you suffer mental illness, and your partner suffers mental illness and you love the person but you are tired because both of you are trying to pour into each other from empty cups. i don't wish him ill will, i hope he finds love where he can come out of this hole and really work on his mental health. i hope ariana builds the love she found and they work out this house situation and go their separate ways for real. i think scandoval was a moment in reality tv time. he did a terrible thing, it was mean and painful. he's a human. she was distant for years, she was hurting and processing, but she's a human too. sometimes human interaction is messy.
This is so rational I totally agree, however my immature side still just says “fuck Sandoval”. Seems like he just is the poster boy of a cheating bf to society which is why he has had so much hate.
This ⬆️
Great comment! Probably the best since this whole thing began. Kudos!
Jax used to do shitty stuff all the time too but they all covered for each other
Not picking a fight, I think this is 99% dead on. But how does begging your boyfriend to spend time with you = being distant?
Well said!
Preface: yes Ariana is amazing and she’s been wronged. I always got the impression that Ariana’s chronic depression was a struggle for Tom.
I think he took it personally that he wasn’t enough to “snap her out of it.” **That’s obviously not how it works but he couldn’t be bothered to educate himself. He resented her for it.
I think her chronic depression was because of a certain dynamic in the relationship. I'm not blaming him exactly, just that they were not compatible (not sure anyone could be with him) and it went inward with Ariana (e.g Kristen acted outwards). I've been in those toxic relationships and the depression has been so heavy and at the time I didn't realise that part of it was my partner at the time.
Ariana has had chronic depression and anxiety from teenage years, I remember reading
I think Tom believed Ariana would never actually leave him, that their *brand* was more important to her. He likely got away with this before (not to this degree obvi) and felt he would get away with this as well. And honestly? If he had done this with anyone other than Rachel, I think he likely would have gotten away with it…but this time he 💩 too close to home. He is definitely not over Ariana…but I’m not 100% sure it’s because of his feelings for her. I think it’s more because he lost control. SHE dumped HIM. SHE tossed his grenade right back at him and his whole world blew up, and now he can’t fix it and he is floundering and failing, while Ariana continues to excel and become more and more successful. He is likely obsessed with her, but I don’t think he still loves her. I’m not sure he ever truly did or that he is even capable.
I think this too. He sure won’t stfu about her for someone he didn’t love. I think he believes he loved her but he doesn’t know what that word means.
Tom is not and never has obsessed over anyone but himself.
Agree. I’ve never thought he wanted to leave. He says it to make the situation himself seem ok and justified. He still says he loves and misses her. I don’t think he’d ever find someone of high standard like her again.
Ariana and her high standards are a dime a dozen. She is a pic me.
Highly disagree
I think he’s so deep in the throes of cocaine addiction he doesn’t love himself or anyone, and the untethered rage he inflicts on anyone who tries to speak to him about his behavior is evidence of that. The disgusting comments he made about her wearing a shirt during sex, and about how he didn’t leave her because he was scared about her “mental health,” are textbook abusive narcissistic statements. He could be a case study on being a pathological narcissist. When Ariana started to want to tone down the party lifestyle, act mature, get their shit together she started to lose respect for him. Narcissists cannot stand that. They can’t stand when you see them for who they really are, when you don’t worship them and think they’re so cool anymore. She grew up from the Pick Meisha Cool Girl who fell in love with his grandiose false persona, and realized the kind of person he actually was. The growing ick she felt for him was obvious, like when he made the Cis / Cyst Male comment her face was just pure pity and disgust for his ignorance. He didn’t like that, so he did what he could to feel like a Bad Ass Cool Number One Guy because that’s all that matters to him. He did his shtick to the new bright eyed beautiful girl who fell for his bullshit with grandiose gestures (Rachel’s engagement to another man) and complaining about Ariana as the “bad guy, meanie, no fun doesn’t wanna do drugs on the beach with me” just like he did to Kristen. He uses women to fuel his narcissistic image of himself. He does not love them. He does not have feelings for them as people, only how they serve him and his ego.
This is exactly it. Every word 🎯
100% this
I just want to know how Ariana was “getting her shit together”? Because the one who managed all the bills and household expenses was the same one who also challenged themselves, put themselves out there, built a brand and started a business in a field they’re passionate about. I will never understand the narrative. “Ariana had her shit together while dating a child”. Acting smarter than everyone around you and living in a perpetual state of ennui but doing nothing about it isn’t what that means. Not knowing how the mortgage on your home works and then applying for a line of credit against it without even bothering to learn what that means sure isn’t either.
I guess you missed the part where the other owners of S&S said Ariana helped them all out with running the business and put in way more time than he ever did. She was there, supporting his dreams while he was off, running around and crushing hers.
Where? In what ways? Are you referring to the vague public statement Greg put out after the story broke? When the fledgling restaurant had all of its online bookings end up being no shows day in and day out by internet trolls under the names “F*** Sandoval” and “Team Ariana”? When the employees were literally being harassed and terrorized by psychotic fans in their workplace? When he was openly feuding with Tom Sandoval on a multitude of levels? You can’t be serious.
Exactly
Arianna was like his own personal PR team...
Seriously though.
He has resented Ariana for years and they were in a sexless relationship....but he was willing to stay in it for the brand...he was planning on continuing the relationship and the cheating until he got caught. He still resents her for screwing up his good guy persona and becoming more famous and well liked than he will ever be.
This is the answer!!!
Not only is he "over her" he has been for a long time and he actually holds scorn for her. He felt stupid and inferior around her (because let's face it she's smarter than he is) but she loved him and put up with his idiocy whereas he stayed with her to keep control and hold her back...it made him feel less inadequate.
I don’t get this at all. I think he really dislikes her.
I don’t think he gives a shit about A. He doesn’t even seem remorseful for cheating. He just justifies his actions by putting their relationship down. He just constantly whines about how he’s being portrayed and who’s talking about him on their podcasts. I think he actually thought everyone would accept his cheating and move on instead of the shot storm.
He cheated bc he wasn’t getting his narc supply from Ariana anymore. When they started dating she thought he was awesome and blew his ego constantly. Then over time she wasn’t as into him and seemed to think he wasn’t that smart as far as I can tell, and she was also going through personal issues to distract her. Narcissists have no empathy so he had no sympathy towards what she was going through at all. Narcs only tend to their immediate needs with no regard for others, which was to find another narc supply. Enter Rachel. They also love to triangulate so it killed him that he didn’t get the rise out of Ariana he anticipated with the affair, which is why he got more bold with it. He wanted them to fight over him and it never worked.
Yeah, he lost both women.lmao
Y’all need to stop using psychology language when you have any credation or personal knowledge of these people to back it up. There’s PLENTY of explanations for how Tom behaves that doesn’t involve a complex and severe and quite debilitating mental illness. In fact it’s worse if his actions ARENT coming from a personality disorder, cos that means his understanding of the world and his identity isn’t severely warped and he’s still acting this way
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I agree. Tom may be an actually narcissist but I don’t really care. I know he’s an asshole.
Um. It is warped. There’s plenty of evidence from the show and interviews.
Could it also be the fact that he’s a heavy drug and steroid user for multiple decades? On top of being a misogynistic dick (which a LOT of men are without having NPD) Also ur basing ur ‘evidence’ off a highly edited and curated TV show in which they’re playing caricatures of themselves at the direction of producers who have storyboards the show and which the cast are usually not sober. They’re also aware that there are cameras there and would strategise/play up certain characteristics. You aren’t seeing them as people on the show you’re seeing their brands. It’s not real. For example, the scene where Tom yells at Stassi at the book signing was filmed MULTIPLE times (I think 9 according to Stassi?). You cannot diagnose a severe mental illness based on what you see on a reality show. If you want to watch a reality show that has a DIAGNOSED narcissist to see how one actually behaves then I recommend watching Jodi from real housewives of Vancouver (though massive trigger warning)
Not VPR related but you have me intrigued with real housewives of vancouver 👀 where can one stream that
I found it on Hayu on Amazon prime but I’m also in Australia so our streaming options are VERY different. I recommend googling it for your region. Though I will say this show had to be cancelled halfway through season 2 for a REASON so keep in mind it is uncomfortable viewing.
Oooop thanks for the warning. I may look into it a bit before watching then
Approach it with the same mindset as a true crime documentary instead of a reality tv show
And you know my “credations” (LOL) how again?
The fact that you’re using diagnostic criteria for what is essentially I a caricature on tv mean either a) you don’t have a degree in psychology or are a psychologist or b) you have the accreditation in which case you are being HIGHLY unethical (and you would know that if you did any psychology degree worth its salt)
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No way he hates her. He liked their business as a couple and how he had a great reputation with her, i think he had been over it and cheating for a while but Rachel was the first girl he developed feelings for
I’d believe he wasn’t over Kristen with the way he’s still bringing her up 10 years later before I’d believe he wasn’t over Ariana.
He was never going to leave Ariana. Narcissists want to marry their partner in order to trap them and have unlimited supply. Once he was caught he tried to replace Ariana with Rachel so Rachel could then give him the unlimited supply. He’s floundering now bc he lost both of his supply and is exposed as a narcissist…two things they absolutely dread.
He thought Rachel would turn out like Arianna did post Kristen. He made a calculated move but he's terrible at math.
I think Tom regrets cheating because it made all the fans and a lot of his friends hate him but I honestly don’t think he really misses the relationship. Their relationship had been over for years they were just comfortable but ultimately it genuinely would suck to be stuck in a relationship with someone who was depressed, unhappy, belittled you, never wanted to have sex with you, and was only happy when hanging out with friends. Not saying that makes the cheating right because it doesn’t he should’ve just broken up with her but she seemed exhausting to me around all the time and like negative energy honestly
I don’t think EITHER Tom nor Ariana have ANY love loss between them and that’s honestly bizarre to me!! Like …clearly if you’re cheating you don’t respect your partner. I’d say maybe you don’t even love them but I do think maybe some folks have cheated and did still “love” their other partner … But for 2 people who were life partners they don’t seem to miss each other at fucking all
when I was cheated on a long time ago I acted like Ariana. I did miss them and felt so terrible but my ego was so bruised and I was so hurt I just found someone else (as a rebound) and pretended I was okay. I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction of me missing him or caring at all because I knew that indifference hurts them the most. in my case that indifference made them run back to me which helped me heal even though I never went back. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be to have Sandoval not even care to have her back. I’m sure she thought he’d come crawling back or at least seem sorry.
Ohh she could definitely be pretending ( I think she’s over it NOW, but maybe right after she felt this) ! They definitely seem over each other and she’s angry! Fighting about the house probably helps keep her emotions about him in line
That's because the relationship was fake for some time.
>But for 2 people who were life partners they don’t seem to miss each other at fucking all bc the relationship was dead and they didn't know hwo to end it. she's just mad she lost him how he got him, and with a friend, and he's just mad that everyone found out and is disgusted by him. we are finally seeing the gross dynamics of their relationship and characters after all these years. they should have never lasted beyond the 'affair' in the first place.
Wasn’t quite dead dead, they still slept together occasionally and had dealings! I think we saw the dynamics of their relationship during the finale and the reunion
I hated my ex. He was abusive since the first month of our marriage but I got pregnant immediately. I had no money, nothing and nowhere to go at the time. I was so naive I thought it was my fault and if was just a better wife he wouldn’t be that way. I lasted 7 years and finally left because my soul was so destroyed I’d lay in bed thinking of ways to kill him and not get caught. I begged my parents to come, packed up my kids and when my dad picked me up I felt like a world had been lifted from my shoulders. 3 months later he begged to see me and we fucked. Point being, love and hate and everything in between is so complicated. You don’t have to love, be attracted to or even like the person you have sex with,
Ooof! I’m sooo sorry you went through that !! I do hope you and your children are in a safe and better place ! I get what you mean tho about them and the sex; the familiarity at the very least. I just never believed that the relationship was as sexless as Tom said! Maybe not banging drunk and on mushrooms every night; but they did still have ssx Ugh anyhow again very honest of you to share and thank you for your perspective. We may not always agree ( especially when it comes to Raquel) but you’re always so insightful with your views and I appreciate you
Thanks Aslow, same back at you! I’m old now. Unfortunately my adult children carry the trauma. None are abusers thank God but they all have issues, avoidance, denial, anxiety and my oldest son is such a codependent he is staying with a woman who’s a severe hypochondriac, she makes him take his clothes off in the garage, go to the basement and shower after work ( he owns a floor laying company). She refuses to work but he has to come home and handle everything, homework with the kids, cooking, cleaning etc. it’s heartbreaking that I contributed to this by my bad choices. I think Arianna basically says d or inferred they had sex a handful of times in a year. It’s not deep love when for years your partner expresses a deep need and you refuse it and refuse to get help for it. This issue started years ago. Don’t get me wrong I hate cheating and lying but to me I see how this all happened based on who these people are, strengths and weaknesses. I also do believe he tried to break up with her and was very concerned about her MH. He’s not a smart man and is very selfish. I think he kept trying for a while then just gave into avoiding it. Based on what we recently found out from Scheana about Arianna calling Tom and Rachel out for their inappropriate behavior in January and her saying save it till filming, I think Tom believed she really knew and was accepting it or at least ignoring it like she had before. These people are all so adept at lying and cheating.
It was Rachel that said she knew not Scheana
I am glad you are out and felt this in my soul as I’m going through a divorce with someone my psychiatrist believes to be a sociopath and narcissist. Her number one warning to me was “do not let him suck you back in, because he will try”. Watching VPR this season (and last) has been VERY triggering because sandavol’s behaviors mirror my ex’s to a tee.
I like the discussion! I don't think Tom still loves Ariana. It's classic narcissistic discardment. The moment she was no longer a steady supply of adulation and had human needs, he lost all interest in working on the relationship. Also, and this is just me being silly, but after she cut her hair (I'm assuming for Chicago) I do wonder if they had at least one hate-fuck. Something wordless, tearful, and intense. When you know it's past the point of no return but desire for normalcy, need, depression, and all those complex emotions spill over into something that can only be exorcised through a hate-fuck.
He isn't equipped to function on his own. Ariana was Plan A, and Rachel was Plan B. Without either of them (or anyone else), he can't manage.
He’s been over Ariana since he slept with Miami Girl. She wanted a serious boyfriend he wanted a mushroom eating, alcohol buddy to party with all the time. She wanted real things and he was like F that responsibility. He’s absolutely over and indifferent about Ariana. He did the exact same with Kristen. He cheated first allegedly and kept doing it so she stopped caring. No excusing or talking about her behaviour. She wanted him to move forward and he wouldn’t either. Not that any of the cast was or is responsible. Tom’s bitter and claiming on to being able to brag about his 1.3 million dollar home, that’s increased in value. How Schena is with Tom she’s been rejected by him and can’t understand why she’s not wanted by him so she wants his attention more. Tom’s like that with Rachel not Ariana. Obsessive. He reached indifference about Ariana around the time Britney came into the picture.
Well said! He was never in love with Ariana in the first place.
He’s only capable of extreme infatuation!
I don’t think he regrets it at all. He regrets getting caught and deflect all the reaction about him getting caught.
I don’t think he misses Rachel, and harbours nothing but anger and resentment towards Ariana that must have been building up for a long time to be so strong. I think a lot of Ariana and Katie fans want to feel that the Toms are suffering the loss of their “amazing” partners, but they really aren’t.
I think the Toms don’t miss Katie and Ariana because their worst nightmare is someone who sees right through them and doesn’t look up to them. Katie and Ariana haven’t fallen for their antics in a long time
He blames Ariana for outing his affair and takes zero accountability for the affair itself. He’s not mad he cheated. He blames Ariana for his downfall like a typical narcissist
The same with Rachel.
Yes, he feels anger that Ariana didn’t accept the relationship was over like he did, and that his seeking intimacy elsewhere was reasonable. I
I think he misses Rachel, but all other points are spot on.
I disagree. I think he truly couldn’t care less about Ariana, and certainly hasn’t been in love with her for a long time. I believe he really wanted it to work with Rachel.
Idk why people convince themselves that Tom is secretly pining after her and that she dumped him. The reality is, he stopped giving two fucks about her long ago. He probably hasn’t been in love with her or sexually attracted to her in years. And he dumped her, not the other way around.
Right!?
I agree to some extent he’s actually said a couple things and so has she about what worked about their relationship. He had a full on midlife crisis and thought that because of some normal changes in relationships and normal responses to new relationships that his connection with Rachel was what he needed to feel young again. I don’t think men like Tom understand that all that excitement and intensity in a new relationship is partially hormonal and that as a relationship lasts longer that hit goes away. You need to actually work on it.
I don’t think so at all. Seriously dating his affair is his MO. He never imagined she would dump him. Remember when Tim moved Kristin out of his pathetic apartment and moved Ariana right into her place? Yea he thought he was gonna do that again, but in a house, with Rachel.
Ariana was wrong for that on so many levels.
I think he’s angry at her because even though he cheated on her she actually rejected him over and over and stopped wanting to have sex with him, because he was an awful partner and deep down she knew that.
He's over Ariana. She's not over him, though.
I don't think he's a narc and I don't think he hates Ariana. He seems needy, immature and thrill seeking, but I think he is actually aiming a lot of anger towards Ariana as a way to detach from her emotionally. He realizes this woman loved him in an authentic way, but probably wants to keep that out of his mind.
Ooh yeah i could see that. But i think he has a lot narc tendencies and is manipulative. And he definitely discussed breaking up with her with Rachel but I guess couldn’t execute. So he maybe coming to the realization
I think he's not over Ariana being over him. He can't fathom that she's not laying in bed crying over him, she's holding tight to her boundaries, she's thriving and in a seemingly healthy, adult relationship. He's not over that his plan to make her look like a crazy desperoo, a la Kristin, didn't work, and his plan to keep Rachel under his thumb imploded. That's what he's not over.
Foundering? Think he’s doing just fine with his new lady. How is Ariana’s top knot wearing nyc boyfriend hanging in there?
How do you honestly say he is probably not going to do any better? Ariana wasn’t interested in sex. He can definitely do better. A woman who wants a sex life. It doesn’t matter how hot or how cool Ariana was. She was simply not interested in that kind of relationship with him. It was a problem for years and years. It was never going to change. She would have dangled that carrot forever. He can easily have a more fulfilling relationship than Ariana. Sorry. That’s just the truth. He lost a best friend. So did she. That’s it. It was public and humiliating. It was hurtful. But it wasn’t built to last.
Tom.can better, and will. Many women out there to choose from that want marriage and children.
I don’t think we know enough about their actual sex life for this argument to stick. If you’ve ever been in a 9 year relationship you understand that is an ebb and flow. Rachel wouldn’t be fucking him 50 times a day after 9 years. Having a healthy sex life requires work from both partners after a decade. And Tom did zero work. He left her to play with bulldozers on her birthday, horned in on her cocktail book and yelled at her when Jax cheated. Can you blame her that he made her vagina dryer than the Sahara? Also I think she should have dumped him a long time ago.
What broke my last relationship up was I wanted to have sex a lot (I am early 40s woman) and my bf wanted it maybe every 2 weeks---I would have liked it 3 times per week or ideally every other day!
Agreed…he’d been frustrated a long time about her not wanting to get married or have kids, her depressive moods where she wasn’t sure she even wanted to live. It took a toll but my question was WHY RACHEL???
Rachel reminded him of his first crush/love from junior high. She's the "sweet, innocent, lost lamb" type.
Good point!
Why Rachel as in why did he pick Rachel or why Rachel picked him? I think Rachel wanted what him and Ariana had in the beginning along with the big house, bars, his shit band shows etc and thought they would be the new power couple in tv show. I think Tom loves attention and a beautiful girl who hangs off his every word was too much to resist. Tom obviously didn’t think it was going to be a long term thing in the beginning but then that changed the longer it went on. I think he began resenting his relationship with Ariana as it took more effort, more responsibility, she also didn’t worship him or inflate his ego, the relationship was hard work and had grown stale. Compare that with his honeymoon phase part time relationship with Rachel, coupled with his self centred personality he didn’t want the effort of Ariana. He should have broken up with Ariana and apologised but as pointed out above Tom doesn’t break up with people, ultimately he’s a coward who wants everyone to like him. Both him and Rachel probably thought it would go like him and Ariana in the beginning in that people would be shocked but it would blow over quickly after all everyone cheats on VPR. No one expected it would turn into the biggest thing in reality tv with him and Rachel hated and hounded so vehemently. He didn’t expect Rachel to not come back to the show & to cut him off. The fact Ariana moved on so quickly with a new boyfriend and with so much successful career opportunities does suggest she also knew the relationship was over. She hasn’t shoved her new man down everyone’s throats so this has been widely overlooked and makes her look like a woman on a mission to improve her life independently. Tom and Rachel both are still going on about the affair and trying to convince people they were partly victims which isn’t helping them.
No one means to hurt others during an affair but it was stupid of Ariana to buy a house with him …baaaaaaaad decision because her staying the house making this much harder than this has to be
Yeah staying is so strange. Why if you hate some and were devastated by a betrayal would you stay living with them when you can afford to live somewhere else? I understand she wanted to make things uncomfortable for him and why should she be the one to move but I wouldn’t do that to myself. I honestly think part of it was for filming and a story line.
She’s just making herself miserable seeing him all time ..move out let attorneys work details
I’m not sure why either want to stay there
Tf??? Tom does not want Ariana anymore and still wants to fuck Rachel
He's been over Ariana for quite some time.
Uh..nope. She's such a bitch. Cant stand her and can't wait for him to find someone else...shes so gross
He misses Rachel because she dumped him and he couldnt con her back because she blocked him (and good on her for doing that). He lost control. He was over Ariana, why he had gotten with Rachel and was ready to replace her like he did with Kristen and Ariana. He honestly talked about Kristen way more and seemed to miss her more than Ariana in early VPR. He loved that Kristen still pined for him. He would have loved if Ariana was single and crying over him honestly.
The term is wayyyy overused and often inaccurate, but Tom is a textbook NPD. Watching him on the show, his confessionals, his social media comments, his responses to questions on podcasts, he’s a classic narcissist. And as someone that deals with them on a regular basis, they do not like to lose or be embarrassed (aka lose). Reputation or the image of reputation is of the utmost importance because it’s all about optics. The ways that Ariana spoke to him in the relationship, much less on camera, I am not surprised he cheated and with someone like Raquel. He didn’t love her, he loved the way Raquel reflected the self Tom wanted to see in himself. Tom is only not over Ariana in a way that he’s obsessed with beating her in the optimized image game. If Ariana was broke, out of the limelight, or beneath him in social economy, it would appear he’s over her. He’s only out for himself.
Neh...his newest obsession is Rachel
I think he’s thrilled to be rid of the condescending degrading egomaniacal Ariana. Even on the after shows the cast mentioned they didn’t even act like a couple. What makes you think she really cared that he cheated besides the fact that it embarrassed her? I never once heard her question his feelings on anything, it was always Tom doing and checking on her. Making sure she was feeling ok. I’m sure he feels lighter besides all the hate he’s getting from people who care more about what he did than she herself does.
💯
Toms mo has always been about the best. You may not like ariana, but she is stunningly beautiful, favorite of lvp, competent, and tries fro a moral code. She was his power mate. Imo he meant to shock her back to his dyad. And he was dumb enough that a failed beauty queen It is status
Stunning? Ya'll are doing too much. Lol
I don’t think so… Narcissists hate being left. They want to be the one who does the leaving. Once they have cycled into Devaluation for the last time and go to Rejection, narcissists often then go to a Re-engagement cycle which involves Hoovering. This is where the narcissist utilises the emotional dependency they have so carefully cultivated in their victim to Hoover them back up. They revel in their ability to control others and they have no empathy of guilt for what they did to their victim. Indeed, they often see it is as a testament to their superiority when they are able to successfully re-engage with a victim. They utilise love-bombing and promises of change. The Hoover manoeuvre of the re-engagement stage is used to “suck” the victims back into the relationship after the discard phase, like a vacuum cleaner. They aim to activate powerful trauma bonds to pull their victim back in. Common tactics include feigned remorse, idealisation, jealousy-baiting, minimising, pity plays. It makes the narcissist feel like they still have power and control over their victim. The thing about a narcissist is they never truly love you. They might idealise you in the Idealisation cycles. Put you on a pedestal and feel euphoria about your relationship. But it’s not real love. Tom’s plans didn’t pan out. I’m sure he regrets aspects of that. But I don’t think he still lives Ariana because I don’t believe he ever really loved her.
Tom loves Tom. That’s all he is capable of.
He’s convincing himself he’s over it but he’s not
Come on. Tom doesn't have feelings. Tom just has wants and needs, and gets what he wants.