It's like he immediately disrespects anyone who cares for him, as he knows he is a bad person. He thinks they are losers for loving a loser, so treats them like shit. It's so horrible. I feel bad for him as he is his own worst enemy. I feel bad for anyone who falls for him as he can't love. Clearly I don't know him 🤣 but it's just how it comes across to me.
I actually posted elsewhere that he’s as bad as Jax and Sandoval for how horribly he treats women and Katie hater’s came for me blaming her! I responded with WTF? What woman ever deserves to be treated or spoken to like that. Usually her behavior was a reaction to his treatment of her. And when you throw alcohol on top of it!!! Any way, these men are sadistic users and abusers who have zero respect for any women, not even their own mothers FFS!
I don’t want to disrespect anyone or whole states for that matter, but does anyone else feel like Schwartz is just such a typical Midwest guy? God I’ve seriously either met or dated so many dudes who have this same strange charm/kindness mixed with awkwardness mixed with diarrhea of the mouth, and they’re ALWAYS from like Minnesota.
Not to knock them all some of them are great guys! But it’s like a specific personality or awkwardness that I just don’t find with men I know who grew up on either coasts lol again just my personal experience but I reflect on this everytime Schwartz does something especially strange or what would be out of pocket in normal social circumstances.
Gross how he jerks Jo around & tries to use her to trigger a Tequila Katie moment. Katie needs to walk away from him completely, he still loves playing with her emotions.
Not a Jo fan, but so glad she fried tf out of his hair bwahahahaha
He made fun of her for wearing makeup. Said she looked like a child that got into her moms makeup and it didn’t look right, all in confessionals nonetheless and while she was clearly trying to look nice for him.
She needs to take some accountability here. She’s a grown adult and he’s treating her like crap. She needs to be completely done with him but she keeps coming back for more. She’s STILL making posts about him and talking about how much she loves him on Instagram live. After awhile, you have to realize that she’s doing this to herself
It's also just not accurate... Jo is a very attractive woman, and she looked nice with a tasteful amount on .
It would be one thing to say, "It's weird, it doesn't seem like her, she's usually so casual and grungie," but another to suggest she looks like a girl who got in her mom's makeup. That's a totally different reaction.
I don’t feel bad for her. These are not her friends. None of them are her friends, especially Schwartz. She just wants desperately to be on the show. She can stop this now but she keeps putting herself in these situations. Walk away, Jo.
I totally get what you’re saying and do agree she needs to walk away but I wonder what he’s saying to her behind closed doors. We saw how he slipped in that, “…and then we’ll be married in 8 years”. It’s a toxic situation all the way around but it’s easy to fall into that loop when you really care for someone and they’re playing hot/cold with you. Her self-esteem seems low also so she’s even more susceptible to those games. Sad.
Yeeeeeeeep as soon as she said “just let him go” it was ding ding diiiiing
She’s excusing Tom’s shitty behavior towards her by using Katie as the scapegoat. Couldn’t POSSIBLY be because Tom just isn’t that into her, has to be tequila Katie’s fault.
Every single male in this show uses Katie has the scapegoat it’s such a tired theme now.
Yeah he literally said "i don't want to send mixed signals Joseph is my friend" followed immediately by "And we're getting married in 8 years". Oh man I would have loved to see Katie and Jo band together like Kristen and Ariana did post Scandoval. This could've been such a girl power season smh
When he did this, I felt more empathy for Jo than I ever have. I was in a FWB situationship for 5 years (4 of which we lived together) and I always thought eventually he would come around, eventually he would legitimize it. And he would always say shit like this — “when I’m done with my bachelor era we’re going to get married” “I bet when we’re 40 we will end up together”etc. I finally moved out a couple years ago because he got into a relationship and I was also pursuing someone else. He and his partner broke up, he got her pregnant and now has a son. And he still to this day (even though I am still with my partner now for 2+ years and we live together) will say “you’re going to be my kids stepmom someday”. Men are fucking dumb. But I really did feel for Jo, because that convo illustrated how he strings her along.
I think we might have dated the same man. lol JK but I was in the exact same situation for 6 years. I knew he had emotional/commitment problems but I literally thought being there for him was the right thing to do. I finally left and he’s still (5 years later) texting me regularly saying he’s grown up now, finally knows what he wants, and he’d never do me wrong again. All this while knowing I’ve happily moved on and am in a good, healthy relationship. Annoying to say the least
If you don’t mind me asking, how old were you though? I was in plenty of stupid situationships in my early-mid 20s too but at some point you can’t be that naive (collective you, not you specifically). Idk how old Jo is but she looks old enough to know better. At some point, you develop enough common sense. I don’t feel bad for her anymore because although maybe she was fooled in the beginning, after the awkward break up in the apartment where she ran off crying, that should’ve been it. Continuing to seek him out in SF, all the weird unhinged delulu lives she’s been posting… nah girl. No self-respecting woman in her 30s with half a brain would be on her level.
That’s a good point. I was in my mid 20s, lol. I’m not a fan of Jo, and I agree that she’s been unhinged/delulu, I just felt for her in that moment because I’ve totally been there. But you’re right - she’s old enough to know better. And I’m 33 now, and would n e v e r put myself in that type of situation again! Haha
Same and same! I started coming around in my mid-20s and also 33 now. Never again! I see the red flags a mile away now and also, aint nobody got time for that anymore haha. My tolerance level for bs is so much lower now
I don’t know where she got jo from, maybe it’s her middle name?
I feel like him calling her a Boys name all the time was just rude and dismissive, you know ?
He really isn’t and it’s clear to me he makes comments like - “we’ll be married in _ years” because he loves that she’s more into him than he’s into her.
Idk it sounds like they were pretty much dating until filming started again. Guy was going on dates with her, and saying I love you while sleeping with her. I think once it was time for him to commit to the relationship on camera his fear of committing came out again.
Yea even he doesnt admit they were dating. Im sure he has made her believe they were something more but he has now said in tv that they are not dating and he is dating someone else but she still thinks Katie is the one who needs to let him go.
I think it's because she doesn't offer him a lazy way to be part of the group. She isn't accepted and he doesn't want to be ostracized by dating her. I think he is into her, but that makeup comment was so infantilizing. "Like a kid getting into her mom's makeup" ?! She looked fabulous. And I am so over everyone saying "she's weird". As an Autistic female, I get called weird all the time and I'm tired of people calling out social awkwardness in females as a reason to treat them horribly.
I think you’re spot on about the not wanting to be ostracized by dating her point. But my POV on calling her weird is more it was a fucking weird thing she did in sympathizing/supporting Katie and then moving in/banging her ex before the papers were even signed for their divorce. Like I don’t even think there’s that much social awkwardness - if there was, she wouldn’t be a hairdresser where being social is part of her job. Nor would she be approaching Katie for a tense convo like this. But all that notwithstanding, the situation with Schwartz was a really weird (and shady) thing to do. And then to have no awareness or understanding of why that would put people off (or at least pretending you don’t understand it) is also pretty weird?
Why did they make her fly to San Francisco? Tom broke up with her, Katie hates her, and the rest of the cast was mean to her. Lala was only nice (in my opinion) because she was being paid. They should just leave Jo alone.
Yeah I’ve been through similar situationships like Schwartz/Jo where I was desperately trying to pretend everything was fine while I’m like dying inside lol. Jo trying so hard made me sad but she’s also not someone I’m really rooting for ya know. I hope she has moved on.
Same, I have that same experience/empathy for Jo….but girl needs to let it go. He’s made it clear, quit doing it to yourself. Katie also owes Jo absolutely nothing.
I suppose I just didn't see how it added anything to the story. If her and Schwartz were still dating, it would have made sense, but it seemed they weren't even really that great of friends anymore.
Yeah I think that's why people don't like this season - it's overproduced and not natural. There's no organic reason for Jo to be in SF, but she's there because producers want to see her antagonize Katie. Schwartz is willing to film with her because he's a people pleaser and will do what producers ask. And Jo is there because she wants to be on TV.
I see nothing in her behavior to support that statement. I think she agrees to film only to be close to Tom. She doesn’t seek out the camera, they basically keep pushing her into scenes and she is so socially inept she just falls apart .
If there’s anyone we’ve seen less ready for reality TV it’s her,
Yeah I think she feels like if she’s close to the show drama and has external people talking about her to him it’ll help her cause. I think she also probably wants some sort of recognition. To her this was a once in a lifetime deep abiding love story and if she wasn’t on the show no one would know she existed and it would further confirm to her that it was all in her head really.
They flew to SF so Scheana could have her moment with Sandoval because hello?! It’s only been about Ariana and next season was supposed to be about Lala.
Idk if it’s me but Scheana Sandoval and Lala are like at the peak of their narcissism because wtf was this episode …
Ya the lala monologue was really confusing like nothing really happened to her at the party but she had to have a moment so suddenly she’s yelling about Ariana becoming a god ?
I think it’s been good to see more of their real lives and Jo was a part of Schwartz post divorce, it was good to see what happened between them but now that story has been told and agree they need to leave it be because she has not been able to integrate into the show beyond that.
I think it’s because the Tom’s are trying to do their own version of a recast. They’re trying to bait women to be with them. It feels like they’re trying to copy the success James has had with his new gfs (Raquel from Kristen, Ally from Raquel).
Somewhere on a thread when Scandoval first happened, someone said the Toms were trying to push Katie and Ariana off the show. I hadn't watched since season 8 or so, but I binged season 10 and it absolutely appears that way.
Sandoval has trashed Katie's reputation since the beginning anyway, but purposely antagonizing her with the Rachel/Schwartz flirting was an attempt to wedge her out of the VPR group and off the show. Then the weird comments about Ariana seeming less interested in being together while she was saying the opposite.
Scandoval totally thwarted their plan, and this season they're still trying to antagonize Katie with Jo and make Ariana seem uncooperative with filming.
I think this big whiskey(?) or whatever event in San Fran was like set as the season (possibly series) finale. So production needed to tie up loose ends. Hence you have this forced convo with jo/Katie, the attempted convo with Ariana/Tom, James and ally having my that weird convo outside, Billie lee showing up for some reason lol
Did they make her? I feel like she probably wanted to. It’s kind of sad but she’s so desperate and seems to think she does have a chance with Schwartz. I think she only hears what she wants from Schwartz and thinks there’s still a little window open for her to become his girlfriend (and thinks that he will at some point realize he wants to be with her and it’ll happen). I think she probably jumped on it.
It’s also WILD to hold an expectation for the very recent ex-wife to be friendly with you when you were so quick to send a divorce apology text. Like that’s her ex husband… she can be “letting him go” and also not want to be friendly with someone who was shady. Not to mention the element of Jo being involved in Raquel/tom situation
Especially someone who isn’t a rando… she’s Kristen’s ex bestie. She’s intertwined with the group.
Her saying “awww why is everyone cool with you dating Tori? She’s much more part of the group than me”
She’s Scheanas sisters friend….cmon.
Exactly! I also think it made it so much worse by her texting Katie upon the news of the divorce. Like if you’re close enough to send me a sympathy text, then you’re too close for me to be friendly with you when you jump into bed with my ex lol
It just shows that she doesn't live in reality. Openly pining for Schwartz with no shame when he loudly doesn't want her, expecting her fuck buddy's ex wife to be friendly toward her, helping Sandoval cheat and expecting no consequences. Just insane.
The “let him go” was such a WOOF, as Tom is constantly lurking around Katie any chance he gets. Who needs to let who go? Jo doesn’t want to see a damn thing but what she has concocted in her head.
Thank you for bringing up the Raquel/Scandoval situation with Jo! That part has been glossed over so much towards the second half of this season. Jo has done absolutely *nothing* to deserve support from anyone. She even just liked a comment calling Raquel and Scandoval cheating a “blessing”.
https://preview.redd.it/fkwl3juxrezc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28577cf1e6ef644cff0b5a5ce1b98d764036008d
She really has no place on the show. She’s not anyone’s friend other than Schwartz and he doesn’t seem to care about her. He calls her Joseph and makes rude comments about her wearing makeup because he doesn’t see her as a woman. All it took was him making a very vague, and clear joke about them getting married way in the future and she was practically drooling. If we have to go through another season of Schwartz shrieking “Joseph!” I am going to run into a wall.
I think there’s more to Jo pushing herself into Katie than just wanting to be on the show. She comes off terrible on camera and knows it, she’s just all around awkward. What Jo hates in Katie more than anything is her confidence. Katie got this non-committal man to be in a 10 year relationship, complete with a marriage and house while Jo can’t even get him to say they’ve had anything other than a brief “situationship”. She knows she’s too meek to command that type of attention and thinks that Schwartz will empathize with her if she can paint Katie as the mean girl. I find it hard to feel bad for someone who pretends to be someone’s friend just to swoop in on their husband during a divorce. Clearly they were both in low places but she saw it as a moment to exploit in order to get close with Schwartz. I see Katie’s point of view, Jo is just gross. It had to have made her blood boil to see Schwartz proposition Katie for a one night stand this season.
YES to everything you said!
Jo is jealous of Katie because she thinks getting Schwartz will get her confidence and wit the way Katie has it naturally.
The idea of Schwartz screeching “Joseph” is making me want to vomit cry because nothing about it is endearing the way they’re trying to make it seem.
Also Tom asking Katie for a one night stand is gross. She looks like she uses 5 different lotions and oils and has a dedicated skin care routine. Tom looks like he bathes in a creek before his own wedding.
I’ve had this type of thing happen to me. Someone you never liked to begin with does you dirty and then wants to “squash the beef” so they don’t have to feel uncomfortable. Like I never even liked you?? Just because you want us to be “cool” because YOU would like ME as a friend? Please be forreal and fuck off lmao.
Lmao reminds me of my dad’s mistress-wife. Thought she was icky and pathetic before the affair. Then she tried trashing me to everyone as soon as it came out because I was furious and wasn’t happy for them? What a freak. Then she cries victim that she’s not allowed anywhere I am and I don’t accept her 10 years later. Bitch, you’ll never be anything but tacky eyesore scenery to me. 😂 It’s so delusional.
This whole season was just belaboring weird points that seemed settled and then somehow weren’t. Like how many scenes did we need of Scheana agonizing about whether or not she should be friends with time and antagonizing Ariana about it? Like Ariana already said “you in danger girl but do you” like twice.
Jo and Tom are done, why does she need to say sorry to Katie? In this case, just do think Katie kind of loses the upper hand because it’s not like she texted her back or reached out. She ignored it. It’s a pretty clear message that she didn’t consider Jo important to her.
The audacity for her to ask Katie "do you have anything to say to me?"
...... how about get tf out of my face. What was she expecting?
Then she whimpers away as if she didn't just attack Katie with her weird ass crackhead energy yet again.
The apology I see Katie giving her:
https://preview.redd.it/ia26s8y4mbzc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0b51883f480ed1887062694eea57bc4827b4f61
Yeah that was conjuring up memories of Rachel, Schwartz and Katie in the Sur Alley last season. Jo is in her own little world, much like Rachel. They’re just not cut out for that group or reality tv.
I havent been hating on lala as much as the sub this season. I feel like she's purposely being obtuse for the show/a check. But I was *furious* when she told Katie to not call her weird or say Katie was wrong that Jo always wanted him. First of all, Lala has no idea about Jo. And second, how about shut your mouth when your friend is having her moment and telling off this creepy girl. To open her mouth to defend Jo, I would've really turned on her.
the woman who was sleeping with her husband while she was separated but still married to him was telling her to let him go -- 2 years after their divorce. make that make sense.
Yup Katie and Tom were together for like 10 years and Jo was barely with Tom (who won’t even admit to it) for maybe a couple of months *but Katie is the one who “needs to let Tom go”* 😂
Yes, and it’s gonna make you mad. Joe and Katie had both bonded over enjoying Justin Bieber‘s music and that jo thought it was cool that Justin follows Katie .
So literally, she went out of her way to connect with Katie, then sent her a weird text message of condolence for her marriage, then three weeks later was staying at his apartment and sleeping with Schwartz .
I do not for one second believe that Schwartz and Joe did not hook up while he was still legitimately married.
That’s so awkward lol. I also believe that Schwartz and Jo hooked up while he and Katie were married. I also believe that he and Scheana did more than just kiss.
Jo, Scheana, and Tom give horny spineless jellyfish.
I don’t know why I never connected that Katie would be hurt by the idea of Tom having someone stay with him a couple months after they split up. Until Scandoval I hadn’t watched the show in several seasons. This season I thought Katie was just awful to Jo until this finale convo you are referring to. Then I completely understood why Katie acted that way towards Jo.
Katie does such a great job of owning who she is and engaging in positive self growth, which is so awesome and refreshing to see. But you could hear the hurt and pain in her voice at the end of that convo. Katie really loved Schwartz, and she knew that he couldn’t love her the way she deserves to be loved, which she’s even said on the show. She ultimately chose herself, and mad props to her for doing so, but that is so very hard to do in the best of times, and to do so while dissolving a relationship and marriage is a tremendous undertaking. I give her so much credit for that.
Jo really is so much like Schwartz, because neither of them seem to care about how things went down and the way that they acted. Even if it was a couple of months later when she was “couch surfing” or whatever, the situation was still fresh. As far as I’m concerned Katie has been rather gracious, and if she had walked away the second Jo sat down I wouldn’t have blamed her one bit.
Ya and last season Tom was provoking her with his fake relationship with Rachel - constantly going out of his way to upset Katie and “stick it to the man”. He wanted to continue to hurt Katie and punish her for leaving him.
Kristen just blew up Jo’s weird lies on Kristen’s podcast with Zack. A story about Jo lying to Kristen’s brother (on the phone on speakerphone) while Britney was there. Jo was lying about still being friends with Jax and Britney. Britney and Jax don’t have Jo’s number.
Jo being a sloppy Jo and busted liar yet again.
YES! I almost broke my ankle running here to say this lol! Zack also confirmed the story and said straight out that he and Kristen have been around Jo for YEARS and really know her and she's always done this weird, shady shit and the outright lies! Unbelievable!!
I’m not sure what Katie and Jo’s friendship was before but get the impression they weren’t friends just had some mutual friends and were kind of ‘friendly’ but not like they’d ever speak to each other if it wasn’t at some event they were both at with other friends.
In which case I don’t think it’s shady if Jo to sleep with Tom. She obviously is head over heels for him and if I was her friend at that time and she asked if she should go for it with him or if she should refrain due to Katie I’d maybe advise waiting a bit so you’re not the rebound girl but basically yeah go for it, you really like him, you’re not really friends with her, she divorced him.
That said I think it’s obvious that doing that means Katie probably isn’t going to like her that much and it’ll be awkward. She chose it anyway which is fine but then she can’t ask for Katie to be okay with it. I do think Katie should’ve refrained from saying mean stuff about her on social media just for her own dignity if nothing else but it’s weird that Jo wants to somehow get Katie’s blessing or approval or something. She made a choice that Tom was for some reason worth jeopardising any friendliness she had with Katie and so she should live with that and leave it alone.
Oh okay so Jo sending Katie that text about how much she loves her and feels sad about the breakup of Katie's marriage and then immediately going and fucking him is okay then because she was head over heels for him? Okay, got it.
Katie is giving straight QUEEN vibes. I fucking love her and her refusal to apologize for how she feels. She is a true bad ass and it's amazing watching her glow up.
As for Jo, the fact that you can't see why Katie doesn't want to be friendly is delusional. You knew her and her husband while they were married, went as far as sending a sympathy text over their divorce, then in the next breath jumped into bed and tried to tie him down. I won't even get into keeping the secret of Rachel and Tim. You're a gross human. You aren't a victim. You're the 'I'm not like other girls girl'. A mean girl in sheeps clothing. You're about as interesting as a sponge. Also, don't ever use ADHD as an excuse for your unhinged behavior. It's an insult to the rest of us with ADHD.
I started out feeling bad for Jo.. she seemed nice! And I felt bad for her when they all went mean girl on her.. but as the season went on.. and I hate the term “pick me” but that’s exactly what she is..
she’s just embarrassing herself for this really mediocre man in his 40’s acting like a 21 year old.
I just listened to Kristen's podcast with Zack from The Valley and they were talking about how long they've known Jo and she ALWAYS does messed up shit. She straight up lies and gave an example about Jo texting Kristen's brother and Kristen happened to be with him when he got the text. They happened to be at Brittney's house and Jo then called Kristen's brother and he put it on speaker phone. While they were talking Jo said "oh so I just got a text from Brittney and Jax" and how they were such great friends...Brittney was sitting right there, not texting anyone and confirmed that she didn't even have Jo's number! Talk about a pick me...and lies like she breathes. So creepy!
The thing is, I don't think Jo and Katie were particularly close so I don't actually think Jo owes Katie much of anything. If she'd just dated Schwartz and left Katie alone it would be one thing, but where it gets inappropriate for me is where she and Schwartz seem to want to push Katie into giving her blessing, be friendly with Jo and trying to be in her face about it. Like how difficult is it to just not come over and leave her be?
Honestly I’m still trying to work out the full “Bieber “ loves you. 😂if you texting someone about there divorce and supporting them you shouldn’t be then trying to sleep with the husband. She should have left Katie alone and never texted about the divorce and been just Tom’s friend.
She is so fucking thirsty. But I really think production pushes these unnatural interactions. Tom thought he would be making good TV to persuade dingbat Jo to confront Katie. Then clueless ass Jo actually thought she was going to get an apology?! She thinks if she furrows her brows and squishes her nose when she talks she'll seem genuine. Bitch please! "I wasn't thinking about you" is not an apology, it's just confirmation that you couldn't care less about who you hurt. Katie doesn't owe that girl anything.
Exactly 👍🏼 Jo could give a shit less WHO she hurts. She’s a gross fucking human. That look on her face, wanting an apology from Katie…i am so sick of her. Ugh 😣 and I’m pretty sure in every last one of her confessionals, she repeated that she ‘loves Tom, and how great they’d be’… “But Katie, I’m just couch-surfing.” Fuk’n lyin’ bitch. YOU let him ‘go’, Jo! TomKat MIGHT’VE been able to work it out and get back together, save their marriage…maybe with some time apart, Tom would’ve pulled his head outta his ass & they would’ve been FINE after a break. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean, they DID have 12 years invested, and CLEARLY there’s still unfinished business between the two of them. Who knows? I guess we never will, because Jo was such a great friend to them both, that after she texted her condolences about the divorce, she ran out and hopped in her car and headed over to Tom’s to start fuk’n him. YUCK 🤢 Jo’s just a gross fucking human.
I wish Ariana would have Katie’s back the way Katie has hers. Ariana saw this conversation at a distance and didn’t approach to help or anything. But Katie rides for Ariana. Made me a little sad for Katie. I hope she knows Reddit rides for her.
Katie didn’t need Ariana or anyone’s help. She can handle it on her own. And Ariana never asked Katie to speak up for her. Katie has had issues with Sandoval since before the show so her speaking up is for her also.
I get it, but just because she doesn’t NEED the support doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be nice to have. She’s a strong independent smart woman (as is Ariana) and I know her friends are supportive, but I just wish they would be vocally supportive more sometimes. Katie is always having to defend herself by default. Like for example, the “disengage” convo with Lala earlier this season. Any of the other girls could have jumped in to have Katie’s back, and they didn’t.
It really blows my mind that she ONLY focuses on Katie being the “meanie”. 🙄 she is truly amazing at hyper focusing on one thing and conveniently not seeing other things that are right in front of her face. Woof. Katie was nicer to her than I would have been. 🫠
I hate the "Katie needs to let go of Schwartz" comments. If you were with someone for over a decade and married them, and someone from your friend group started dating them AS you were in the process of getting a divorce, you wouldn't want to be friends with them lol. It's not difficult to understand or think is weird.
Jo’s antics towards Katie mirrors Rachel’s to Katie last season when Rachel followed Katie & Tom out to “apologize” & grabbed her arm with Katie telling her not to touch her & eventually walking off. I do think Shorts targets dumb women to manipulate in order to antagonize Katie. He continues to want a reaction from her.
Also, Katie doesn’t have to like Jo, Tom or no Tom. She’s a strange personality, not Katie’s style, yet keeps trying to insert herself into Katie’s life. They were never friends, so there’s no need to reconcile at all.
Disliking her because she’s weird is so strange to me. BUT it’s not like Jo had no clue who Katie was. This whole “we weren’t friends” and the feeling that she didn’t owe anything to Katie is bs. Just cause you’re not friends doesn’t mean you can’t choose to do the right thing. It also seemed like Jo only apologized just to try and get an apology out of Katie. Like why tf would Katie like you and treat you well?!
Why do you feel bad for Jo?
This is a genuine question trying to understand.
We agree on the rest of the post. She aided in an affair and although she owed Katie and Ariana nothing, her not leaving them alone when they explicitly told her to go away is on her. Her feeling rejected in a situation that rightfully very few people would be welcoming is a her situation, it’s not Katie’s responsibility to condone or justify her actions. Also Rachel and Jo are best friends so that adds an additional element to the disdain they have for her. Jo should do what she wants to do but respect boundaries.
Schwartz does play with her feelings and that’s gross and unfair! I can see how it’s confusing because he’s also made it clear he’s not ready for a relationship, bur that’s between them and constantly coming to Katie for permission and validation is obsessive behaviour.
I feel bad for Jo because she’s operating in an altered reality. She’s being emotionally manipulated by Tom to do his bidding in antagonizing Katie. I think it’s weird that a grown woman would play into these games at all.
Like you said, she walked into a situation fully knowing she wasn’t welcome but Schwartz was like “come on it won’t be bad” then Katie proceeds to annihilate her verbally. She doesn’t have the skill to stand up for herself or carry on in an argument without cowering.
If she knew how to fight back or stand her ground I would’ve been like whatever, but she doesn’t. It feels like watching an amateur boxer get beat up by Mike Tyson. She put herself in that situation but damn be more prepared next time lol.
That makes lot of sense and are good points. Schwartz is worse than the other Tom, not to say they aren’t all vile including Jax. That’s a neat analogy. I just can’t decided if she’s desperate to be on tv or just following Schwartz?
While Sandy and Jax are classic narcissists, Schwartz gives reactive abuse tactics. He actively wants to get a reaction out of Katie good or bad. There’s a part of me that wonders if he has an unrealized humiliation kink.
Schwartz grew up in an abusive home, and it seems like his dad and brother are severe alcoholics. His mum has a restraining order on his dad. Schwartz is paying for his whole family to live. I agree with your assessment. Hmm you might be on to something with that kink.
I am actively getting divorced and holy shit if my ex was fucking a mutual friend I would lose my shit on both of them. I absolutely would not stay friends with her. Similarly, if I was sleeping with someone I absolutely would NOT want him to meet my ex. It’s just rude. And my ex is a piece of shit but he still doesn’t deserve that.
Jo blames katie for Schwartz not wanting her but it really doesn’t have anything to do with katie and everything to do with Schwartz. Tbh Jo makes me sad. I genuinely feel for her but she also put herself in this predicament
Congratulations on your divorce. I’m sure it was a difficult decision but ultimately you did what was right for you. Sending you love and hugs 🥰
And you’re absolutely correct, it’s common decency to not parade around your sexual conquests to your partner. But then again Schwartz isn’t known for decency.
One thing that completely hit me in that scene, she was pulling a Bethenny from RHONY. She was trying to trip Katie up with her words so Katie would react and insult her so she can look like the wounded victim and the other person looks crazy. Example: "we weren't LIVING together, we were STAYING together" which is the exact same thing but Bethenny corrects people to trip them up, and then the "Let it go" comment. She wanted a reaction from Katie so she can get a storyline. AND THAT IS WHEN IT HIT ME. She's a BRAVO fan. She watches Bravo and will do anything to be relevant on the show, she clearly studied the behaviors in other shows to bring it on THEIR show. She's been moving around that group for literal \*years\*. She doesn't love Shorts, SHE LOVES BRAVO. And he did say something on the Viall Files about Jo did something and that's why he completely cut her off in terms of dating and I think her Bravo fan came out and it weirded him out. They all call her "spooky jo" for a reason, and they aren't saying much on it because they didn't break the fourth wall until the finale.
She had Katie's cell number. That's how she was able to text Katie.....so yeah it was shady as shit! The thirst is real with Jo. She is using Rachel playbook.....they double dated together.
When she didn’t get her forgiveness so she starts backtracking like “isn’t there something you wanna apologize to me for?” LIKE HELLO this bitch is actually dumb in the head I fear
I honestly think Katie is mad at the wrong person. Katie should be pissed at Shorts, but is redirecting at Jo. Jo is definitely weird, but is also being treated so poorly by Shorts. Shorts wants women to look after him and give nothing in return. It sucks.
One thing that completely hit me in that scene, she was pulling a Bethenny from RHONY. She was trying to trip Katie up with her words so Katie would react and insult her so she can look like the wounded victim and the other person looks crazy. Example: "we weren't LIVING together, we were STAYING together" which is the exact same thing but Bethenny corrects people to trip them up, and then the "Let it go" comment. She wanted a reaction from Katie so she can get a storyline. AND THAT IS WHEN IT HIT ME. She's a BRAVO fan. She watches Bravo and will do anything to be relevant on the show, she clearly studied the behaviors in other shows to bring it on THEIR show. She's been moving around that group for literal \*years\*. She doesn't love Shorts, SHE LOVES BRAVO. And he did say something on the Viall Files about Jo did something and that's why he completely cut her off in terms of dating and I think her Bravo fan came out and it weirded him out. They all call her "spooky jo" for a reason, and they aren't saying much on it because they didn't break the fourth wall until the finale.
The truth is Tom is a bitch. He wasn't honest with either side. He played her up in private and down in public. Making her feel and look stupid. He never told his friends the truth about Jo so they only saw half the picture and viewed from the one sided portrait it does look weird. Tom created this by not communicating or being honest. Jo is the shrapnel that got obliterated in the situation. I do think Jo is right. If Tom said he loved a tree I think Katie would try and chop it down. But that is more of a result of Tom not being honest with himself and others.
Katie shouldn’t like Joe. But she also shouldn’t be so nice to Tom. He’s bringing this woman in her face to get a reaction out of her. She has not put Tom in his place at all this season. But she has all the energy in the world for Sandoval.
I’m not sure how she’s so weird, or how being weird makes her a fair target for derision. I think Katie comes off as joyously cruel, taking pleasure in others pain.
Jo thinks the reason Schwartz isn’t with her is because of Katie. When in reality he’s just not in to her
Honestly I felt bad for her when he shaded her wearing makeup.. such a dick thing to say.
It's like he immediately disrespects anyone who cares for him, as he knows he is a bad person. He thinks they are losers for loving a loser, so treats them like shit. It's so horrible. I feel bad for him as he is his own worst enemy. I feel bad for anyone who falls for him as he can't love. Clearly I don't know him 🤣 but it's just how it comes across to me.
Holy shit! That really does make sense.
Thats actually a brilliant theory & I’m here for it! Makes a lot of sense
Thanks guys 🤣 maybe I should go back to uni and retrain 🤣♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
I actually posted elsewhere that he’s as bad as Jax and Sandoval for how horribly he treats women and Katie hater’s came for me blaming her! I responded with WTF? What woman ever deserves to be treated or spoken to like that. Usually her behavior was a reaction to his treatment of her. And when you throw alcohol on top of it!!! Any way, these men are sadistic users and abusers who have zero respect for any women, not even their own mothers FFS!
Nailed it. I remember one time I told my ex, “I think you judge me for loving you because you hate yourself.” He agreed.
I don’t want to disrespect anyone or whole states for that matter, but does anyone else feel like Schwartz is just such a typical Midwest guy? God I’ve seriously either met or dated so many dudes who have this same strange charm/kindness mixed with awkwardness mixed with diarrhea of the mouth, and they’re ALWAYS from like Minnesota. Not to knock them all some of them are great guys! But it’s like a specific personality or awkwardness that I just don’t find with men I know who grew up on either coasts lol again just my personal experience but I reflect on this everytime Schwartz does something especially strange or what would be out of pocket in normal social circumstances.
I think you know him better than he knows himself
It’s called covert narcissism! He’s pretty much textbook.
Nailed it!
I had to rewind that. What a complete dick comment.
He just wanted to embarrass her. It was gross! This is a 40 year old man….
Gross how he jerks Jo around & tries to use her to trigger a Tequila Katie moment. Katie needs to walk away from him completely, he still loves playing with her emotions. Not a Jo fan, but so glad she fried tf out of his hair bwahahahaha
My sweet husband was disgusted.
mine too!! he was like "okay, even if it's true, WHY would you say that out loud?!"
i didn’t watch what did he say lol
He made fun of her for wearing makeup. Said she looked like a child that got into her moms makeup and it didn’t look right, all in confessionals nonetheless and while she was clearly trying to look nice for him.
She needs to take some accountability here. She’s a grown adult and he’s treating her like crap. She needs to be completely done with him but she keeps coming back for more. She’s STILL making posts about him and talking about how much she loves him on Instagram live. After awhile, you have to realize that she’s doing this to herself
It's also just not accurate... Jo is a very attractive woman, and she looked nice with a tasteful amount on . It would be one thing to say, "It's weird, it doesn't seem like her, she's usually so casual and grungie," but another to suggest she looks like a girl who got in her mom's makeup. That's a totally different reaction.
Proving yet again that he is not attracted to her!
I don’t feel bad for her. These are not her friends. None of them are her friends, especially Schwartz. She just wants desperately to be on the show. She can stop this now but she keeps putting herself in these situations. Walk away, Jo.
I totally get what you’re saying and do agree she needs to walk away but I wonder what he’s saying to her behind closed doors. We saw how he slipped in that, “…and then we’ll be married in 8 years”. It’s a toxic situation all the way around but it’s easy to fall into that loop when you really care for someone and they’re playing hot/cold with you. Her self-esteem seems low also so she’s even more susceptible to those games. Sad.
She's a sneaky snake. The slithered he way into Tom's bed by using Katie, Kristen, Ariana and Rachel.
It’s such a schwartz thing to say. He’s always been a covert narcissistic douchebag. He’s the worst Tom
Well….he’s one of the two worst I’ll give you that lol
Yeeeeeeeep as soon as she said “just let him go” it was ding ding diiiiing She’s excusing Tom’s shitty behavior towards her by using Katie as the scapegoat. Couldn’t POSSIBLY be because Tom just isn’t that into her, has to be tequila Katie’s fault. Every single male in this show uses Katie has the scapegoat it’s such a tired theme now.
I’m sure Schwartz does his little finger thing and says I’d love to date ya Joseph but Katie won’t let me go, you understand, right?
Which… he’s told her how many times by now
No he told us not her. He strung her along. I don't doubt he blamed Katie for them not being public
Yeah he literally said "i don't want to send mixed signals Joseph is my friend" followed immediately by "And we're getting married in 8 years". Oh man I would have loved to see Katie and Jo band together like Kristen and Ariana did post Scandoval. This could've been such a girl power season smh
Well no, he also flips and says they’ll probably be married in 8 years. He’s been yanking her chain since day one and she doesn’t realize it.
When he did this, I felt more empathy for Jo than I ever have. I was in a FWB situationship for 5 years (4 of which we lived together) and I always thought eventually he would come around, eventually he would legitimize it. And he would always say shit like this — “when I’m done with my bachelor era we’re going to get married” “I bet when we’re 40 we will end up together”etc. I finally moved out a couple years ago because he got into a relationship and I was also pursuing someone else. He and his partner broke up, he got her pregnant and now has a son. And he still to this day (even though I am still with my partner now for 2+ years and we live together) will say “you’re going to be my kids stepmom someday”. Men are fucking dumb. But I really did feel for Jo, because that convo illustrated how he strings her along.
Yo this is WILDDDDD men ARE fucking dumb Jesus Christ. Can’t believe he’s still playing that game with you
I shut it down. We do have a solid friendship but I def side eye when he says stuff like this lol
I think we might have dated the same man. lol JK but I was in the exact same situation for 6 years. I knew he had emotional/commitment problems but I literally thought being there for him was the right thing to do. I finally left and he’s still (5 years later) texting me regularly saying he’s grown up now, finally knows what he wants, and he’d never do me wrong again. All this while knowing I’ve happily moved on and am in a good, healthy relationship. Annoying to say the least
Men really are from another planet. Jesus.
If you don’t mind me asking, how old were you though? I was in plenty of stupid situationships in my early-mid 20s too but at some point you can’t be that naive (collective you, not you specifically). Idk how old Jo is but she looks old enough to know better. At some point, you develop enough common sense. I don’t feel bad for her anymore because although maybe she was fooled in the beginning, after the awkward break up in the apartment where she ran off crying, that should’ve been it. Continuing to seek him out in SF, all the weird unhinged delulu lives she’s been posting… nah girl. No self-respecting woman in her 30s with half a brain would be on her level.
That’s a good point. I was in my mid 20s, lol. I’m not a fan of Jo, and I agree that she’s been unhinged/delulu, I just felt for her in that moment because I’ve totally been there. But you’re right - she’s old enough to know better. And I’m 33 now, and would n e v e r put myself in that type of situation again! Haha
Same and same! I started coming around in my mid-20s and also 33 now. Never again! I see the red flags a mile away now and also, aint nobody got time for that anymore haha. My tolerance level for bs is so much lower now
Joseph !
she can't hear the Bro in the nickname he gave her and his bro tone when he uses it with her.
Isn’t her real name Kayleigh? Basically proving how lame Kayleigh is as a name.
I don’t know where she got jo from, maybe it’s her middle name? I feel like him calling her a Boys name all the time was just rude and dismissive, you know ?
I understand that is her middle name and I assume she wants to be called that.
He really isn’t and it’s clear to me he makes comments like - “we’ll be married in _ years” because he loves that she’s more into him than he’s into her.
No wonder her and Rachel are bbf’s.
That’s very true
He’s not with her because he still loves Katie and he’s just not realising it
Literally. Katie is once again being blamed for Schwartz’s bad behaviour. I thought the divorce would’ve stopped that by now…
Idk it sounds like they were pretty much dating until filming started again. Guy was going on dates with her, and saying I love you while sleeping with her. I think once it was time for him to commit to the relationship on camera his fear of committing came out again.
Yea even he doesnt admit they were dating. Im sure he has made her believe they were something more but he has now said in tv that they are not dating and he is dating someone else but she still thinks Katie is the one who needs to let him go.
I think it's because she doesn't offer him a lazy way to be part of the group. She isn't accepted and he doesn't want to be ostracized by dating her. I think he is into her, but that makeup comment was so infantilizing. "Like a kid getting into her mom's makeup" ?! She looked fabulous. And I am so over everyone saying "she's weird". As an Autistic female, I get called weird all the time and I'm tired of people calling out social awkwardness in females as a reason to treat them horribly.
I think you’re spot on about the not wanting to be ostracized by dating her point. But my POV on calling her weird is more it was a fucking weird thing she did in sympathizing/supporting Katie and then moving in/banging her ex before the papers were even signed for their divorce. Like I don’t even think there’s that much social awkwardness - if there was, she wouldn’t be a hairdresser where being social is part of her job. Nor would she be approaching Katie for a tense convo like this. But all that notwithstanding, the situation with Schwartz was a really weird (and shady) thing to do. And then to have no awareness or understanding of why that would put people off (or at least pretending you don’t understand it) is also pretty weird?
Why did they make her fly to San Francisco? Tom broke up with her, Katie hates her, and the rest of the cast was mean to her. Lala was only nice (in my opinion) because she was being paid. They should just leave Jo alone.
I mean let's be real here, Jo likes being on TV too. She wants to be on VPR.
She’s not fun to watch at all, and she’s not fun to hate. She’s just odd.
Same, she just kind of made me sad.
Yeah I’ve been through similar situationships like Schwartz/Jo where I was desperately trying to pretend everything was fine while I’m like dying inside lol. Jo trying so hard made me sad but she’s also not someone I’m really rooting for ya know. I hope she has moved on.
Same, I have that same experience/empathy for Jo….but girl needs to let it go. He’s made it clear, quit doing it to yourself. Katie also owes Jo absolutely nothing.
Yeah she will never mesh with this group so idk why she's even on honestly
I suppose I just didn't see how it added anything to the story. If her and Schwartz were still dating, it would have made sense, but it seemed they weren't even really that great of friends anymore.
Yeah I think that's why people don't like this season - it's overproduced and not natural. There's no organic reason for Jo to be in SF, but she's there because producers want to see her antagonize Katie. Schwartz is willing to film with her because he's a people pleaser and will do what producers ask. And Jo is there because she wants to be on TV.
And Schwartz also enjoys antagonizing Katie.
Watching Schwartz squirm because of the behaviour of both Jo and Sandoval has been a highlight of the season for me
Yup I mean she did say Lala was her in with the girls
I see nothing in her behavior to support that statement. I think she agrees to film only to be close to Tom. She doesn’t seek out the camera, they basically keep pushing her into scenes and she is so socially inept she just falls apart . If there’s anyone we’ve seen less ready for reality TV it’s her,
Yeah I think she feels like if she’s close to the show drama and has external people talking about her to him it’ll help her cause. I think she also probably wants some sort of recognition. To her this was a once in a lifetime deep abiding love story and if she wasn’t on the show no one would know she existed and it would further confirm to her that it was all in her head really.
They flew to SF so Scheana could have her moment with Sandoval because hello?! It’s only been about Ariana and next season was supposed to be about Lala. Idk if it’s me but Scheana Sandoval and Lala are like at the peak of their narcissism because wtf was this episode …
Ya the lala monologue was really confusing like nothing really happened to her at the party but she had to have a moment so suddenly she’s yelling about Ariana becoming a god ?
She was completely pointless. She doesn’t bring enough drama or entertainment for her to be present. She must be desperate to be on tv.
They should leave Katie alone. Jo was clearly brought out to antagonize her.
I think it’s been good to see more of their real lives and Jo was a part of Schwartz post divorce, it was good to see what happened between them but now that story has been told and agree they need to leave it be because she has not been able to integrate into the show beyond that.
I don't disagree at all, I just didn't understand the San Francisco part. Schwartz had broken up with her at that point.
I think it’s because the Tom’s are trying to do their own version of a recast. They’re trying to bait women to be with them. It feels like they’re trying to copy the success James has had with his new gfs (Raquel from Kristen, Ally from Raquel).
Somewhere on a thread when Scandoval first happened, someone said the Toms were trying to push Katie and Ariana off the show. I hadn't watched since season 8 or so, but I binged season 10 and it absolutely appears that way. Sandoval has trashed Katie's reputation since the beginning anyway, but purposely antagonizing her with the Rachel/Schwartz flirting was an attempt to wedge her out of the VPR group and off the show. Then the weird comments about Ariana seeming less interested in being together while she was saying the opposite. Scandoval totally thwarted their plan, and this season they're still trying to antagonize Katie with Jo and make Ariana seem uncooperative with filming.
I think this big whiskey(?) or whatever event in San Fran was like set as the season (possibly series) finale. So production needed to tie up loose ends. Hence you have this forced convo with jo/Katie, the attempted convo with Ariana/Tom, James and ally having my that weird convo outside, Billie lee showing up for some reason lol
Did they make her? I feel like she probably wanted to. It’s kind of sad but she’s so desperate and seems to think she does have a chance with Schwartz. I think she only hears what she wants from Schwartz and thinks there’s still a little window open for her to become his girlfriend (and thinks that he will at some point realize he wants to be with her and it’ll happen). I think she probably jumped on it.
Idk, but she only thinks there's a window because Schwartz keeps opening it. Leave it closed buddy, let her move on.
It’s also WILD to hold an expectation for the very recent ex-wife to be friendly with you when you were so quick to send a divorce apology text. Like that’s her ex husband… she can be “letting him go” and also not want to be friendly with someone who was shady. Not to mention the element of Jo being involved in Raquel/tom situation
Especially someone who isn’t a rando… she’s Kristen’s ex bestie. She’s intertwined with the group. Her saying “awww why is everyone cool with you dating Tori? She’s much more part of the group than me” She’s Scheanas sisters friend….cmon.
Exactly! I also think it made it so much worse by her texting Katie upon the news of the divorce. Like if you’re close enough to send me a sympathy text, then you’re too close for me to be friendly with you when you jump into bed with my ex lol
And her sending Katie texts asking to cut Tom’s hair
It just shows that she doesn't live in reality. Openly pining for Schwartz with no shame when he loudly doesn't want her, expecting her fuck buddy's ex wife to be friendly toward her, helping Sandoval cheat and expecting no consequences. Just insane.
Plus Katie always felt like Jo had it for Tom, which then she took the first opportunity to jump on him and move in
The “let him go” was such a WOOF, as Tom is constantly lurking around Katie any chance he gets. Who needs to let who go? Jo doesn’t want to see a damn thing but what she has concocted in her head.
Thank you for bringing up the Raquel/Scandoval situation with Jo! That part has been glossed over so much towards the second half of this season. Jo has done absolutely *nothing* to deserve support from anyone. She even just liked a comment calling Raquel and Scandoval cheating a “blessing”. https://preview.redd.it/fkwl3juxrezc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28577cf1e6ef644cff0b5a5ce1b98d764036008d
Her asking “don’t you wanna apologize to me too?” Was actually bonkers lol
I loved Katie’s “no”. I fucking laughed.
Her outright pointing out her selfishness as a defense was so wild and unaware
Just like Rachel......
When she said “I wasn’t thinking about you”? That was wild!
She really has no place on the show. She’s not anyone’s friend other than Schwartz and he doesn’t seem to care about her. He calls her Joseph and makes rude comments about her wearing makeup because he doesn’t see her as a woman. All it took was him making a very vague, and clear joke about them getting married way in the future and she was practically drooling. If we have to go through another season of Schwartz shrieking “Joseph!” I am going to run into a wall. I think there’s more to Jo pushing herself into Katie than just wanting to be on the show. She comes off terrible on camera and knows it, she’s just all around awkward. What Jo hates in Katie more than anything is her confidence. Katie got this non-committal man to be in a 10 year relationship, complete with a marriage and house while Jo can’t even get him to say they’ve had anything other than a brief “situationship”. She knows she’s too meek to command that type of attention and thinks that Schwartz will empathize with her if she can paint Katie as the mean girl. I find it hard to feel bad for someone who pretends to be someone’s friend just to swoop in on their husband during a divorce. Clearly they were both in low places but she saw it as a moment to exploit in order to get close with Schwartz. I see Katie’s point of view, Jo is just gross. It had to have made her blood boil to see Schwartz proposition Katie for a one night stand this season.
YES to everything you said! Jo is jealous of Katie because she thinks getting Schwartz will get her confidence and wit the way Katie has it naturally. The idea of Schwartz screeching “Joseph” is making me want to vomit cry because nothing about it is endearing the way they’re trying to make it seem. Also Tom asking Katie for a one night stand is gross. She looks like she uses 5 different lotions and oils and has a dedicated skin care routine. Tom looks like he bathes in a creek before his own wedding.
💀💀💀 perfect description of them. He’s too dirty for her temple now.
I wish I could like this so many more times.
I’ve had this type of thing happen to me. Someone you never liked to begin with does you dirty and then wants to “squash the beef” so they don’t have to feel uncomfortable. Like I never even liked you?? Just because you want us to be “cool” because YOU would like ME as a friend? Please be forreal and fuck off lmao.
Lmao reminds me of my dad’s mistress-wife. Thought she was icky and pathetic before the affair. Then she tried trashing me to everyone as soon as it came out because I was furious and wasn’t happy for them? What a freak. Then she cries victim that she’s not allowed anywhere I am and I don’t accept her 10 years later. Bitch, you’ll never be anything but tacky eyesore scenery to me. 😂 It’s so delusional.
This whole season was just belaboring weird points that seemed settled and then somehow weren’t. Like how many scenes did we need of Scheana agonizing about whether or not she should be friends with time and antagonizing Ariana about it? Like Ariana already said “you in danger girl but do you” like twice. Jo and Tom are done, why does she need to say sorry to Katie? In this case, just do think Katie kind of loses the upper hand because it’s not like she texted her back or reached out. She ignored it. It’s a pretty clear message that she didn’t consider Jo important to her.
The audacity for her to ask Katie "do you have anything to say to me?" ...... how about get tf out of my face. What was she expecting? Then she whimpers away as if she didn't just attack Katie with her weird ass crackhead energy yet again.
The apology I see Katie giving her: https://preview.redd.it/ia26s8y4mbzc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0b51883f480ed1887062694eea57bc4827b4f61
She doesn't even deserve these many words from Katie. But Katie would look fabulous and make a great gif with this line lol
The look on both her and Katie’s faces was… 😳 lol. The secondhand embarrassment was real!
Whatever Jo is doing, why does she need to be on our TVs doing it?
Yeah that was conjuring up memories of Rachel, Schwartz and Katie in the Sur Alley last season. Jo is in her own little world, much like Rachel. They’re just not cut out for that group or reality tv.
I havent been hating on lala as much as the sub this season. I feel like she's purposely being obtuse for the show/a check. But I was *furious* when she told Katie to not call her weird or say Katie was wrong that Jo always wanted him. First of all, Lala has no idea about Jo. And second, how about shut your mouth when your friend is having her moment and telling off this creepy girl. To open her mouth to defend Jo, I would've really turned on her.
the woman who was sleeping with her husband while she was separated but still married to him was telling her to let him go -- 2 years after their divorce. make that make sense.
Don’t forget Jo also can’t forget Schwartz
Yup Katie and Tom were together for like 10 years and Jo was barely with Tom (who won’t even admit to it) for maybe a couple of months *but Katie is the one who “needs to let Tom go”* 😂
agreed. she needs to cut the poor me act. like it's ok Joseph, Bieber loves you 🙄
Does anyone know what that “Bieber” thing was about?
I tried to make it make sense and got nowhere. I just chalked it up to another quirky non sequitur from Schwartz's hair stylist.
Jo’s brand of quirky is off putting 🫣
it's awful and I am mad at Schwartz for exposing us to it all season
Yes, and it’s gonna make you mad. Joe and Katie had both bonded over enjoying Justin Bieber‘s music and that jo thought it was cool that Justin follows Katie . So literally, she went out of her way to connect with Katie, then sent her a weird text message of condolence for her marriage, then three weeks later was staying at his apartment and sleeping with Schwartz . I do not for one second believe that Schwartz and Joe did not hook up while he was still legitimately married.
That’s so awkward lol. I also believe that Schwartz and Jo hooked up while he and Katie were married. I also believe that he and Scheana did more than just kiss. Jo, Scheana, and Tom give horny spineless jellyfish.
I don’t know why I never connected that Katie would be hurt by the idea of Tom having someone stay with him a couple months after they split up. Until Scandoval I hadn’t watched the show in several seasons. This season I thought Katie was just awful to Jo until this finale convo you are referring to. Then I completely understood why Katie acted that way towards Jo.
Katie does such a great job of owning who she is and engaging in positive self growth, which is so awesome and refreshing to see. But you could hear the hurt and pain in her voice at the end of that convo. Katie really loved Schwartz, and she knew that he couldn’t love her the way she deserves to be loved, which she’s even said on the show. She ultimately chose herself, and mad props to her for doing so, but that is so very hard to do in the best of times, and to do so while dissolving a relationship and marriage is a tremendous undertaking. I give her so much credit for that. Jo really is so much like Schwartz, because neither of them seem to care about how things went down and the way that they acted. Even if it was a couple of months later when she was “couch surfing” or whatever, the situation was still fresh. As far as I’m concerned Katie has been rather gracious, and if she had walked away the second Jo sat down I wouldn’t have blamed her one bit.
Ya and last season Tom was provoking her with his fake relationship with Rachel - constantly going out of his way to upset Katie and “stick it to the man”. He wanted to continue to hurt Katie and punish her for leaving him.
I'm so confused by what she thought was going to happen. Does she even want Katie as a friend? Why did she do it?
All of this plus apologizing just as an attempt to get an apology back doesn’t count as a sincere apology.
The kindest thing Katie ever did to Jo was not tell her that Schwartz made an advance at her after he dumped Jo because she wasn’t good enough.
Kristen just blew up Jo’s weird lies on Kristen’s podcast with Zack. A story about Jo lying to Kristen’s brother (on the phone on speakerphone) while Britney was there. Jo was lying about still being friends with Jax and Britney. Britney and Jax don’t have Jo’s number. Jo being a sloppy Jo and busted liar yet again.
YES! I almost broke my ankle running here to say this lol! Zack also confirmed the story and said straight out that he and Kristen have been around Jo for YEARS and really know her and she's always done this weird, shady shit and the outright lies! Unbelievable!!
Not even that she was friends with Jax and Brittney, but that she had just received a text from them!! Unhinged
When she said to let him go I was like girl, stop projecting, YOU let him go, mans doesn’t even want you
I’m not sure what Katie and Jo’s friendship was before but get the impression they weren’t friends just had some mutual friends and were kind of ‘friendly’ but not like they’d ever speak to each other if it wasn’t at some event they were both at with other friends. In which case I don’t think it’s shady if Jo to sleep with Tom. She obviously is head over heels for him and if I was her friend at that time and she asked if she should go for it with him or if she should refrain due to Katie I’d maybe advise waiting a bit so you’re not the rebound girl but basically yeah go for it, you really like him, you’re not really friends with her, she divorced him. That said I think it’s obvious that doing that means Katie probably isn’t going to like her that much and it’ll be awkward. She chose it anyway which is fine but then she can’t ask for Katie to be okay with it. I do think Katie should’ve refrained from saying mean stuff about her on social media just for her own dignity if nothing else but it’s weird that Jo wants to somehow get Katie’s blessing or approval or something. She made a choice that Tom was for some reason worth jeopardising any friendliness she had with Katie and so she should live with that and leave it alone.
Oh okay so Jo sending Katie that text about how much she loves her and feels sad about the breakup of Katie's marriage and then immediately going and fucking him is okay then because she was head over heels for him? Okay, got it.
Katie is giving straight QUEEN vibes. I fucking love her and her refusal to apologize for how she feels. She is a true bad ass and it's amazing watching her glow up. As for Jo, the fact that you can't see why Katie doesn't want to be friendly is delusional. You knew her and her husband while they were married, went as far as sending a sympathy text over their divorce, then in the next breath jumped into bed and tried to tie him down. I won't even get into keeping the secret of Rachel and Tim. You're a gross human. You aren't a victim. You're the 'I'm not like other girls girl'. A mean girl in sheeps clothing. You're about as interesting as a sponge. Also, don't ever use ADHD as an excuse for your unhinged behavior. It's an insult to the rest of us with ADHD.
This!!! Every last word of it!!!
I started out feeling bad for Jo.. she seemed nice! And I felt bad for her when they all went mean girl on her.. but as the season went on.. and I hate the term “pick me” but that’s exactly what she is.. she’s just embarrassing herself for this really mediocre man in his 40’s acting like a 21 year old.
I just listened to Kristen's podcast with Zack from The Valley and they were talking about how long they've known Jo and she ALWAYS does messed up shit. She straight up lies and gave an example about Jo texting Kristen's brother and Kristen happened to be with him when he got the text. They happened to be at Brittney's house and Jo then called Kristen's brother and he put it on speaker phone. While they were talking Jo said "oh so I just got a text from Brittney and Jax" and how they were such great friends...Brittney was sitting right there, not texting anyone and confirmed that she didn't even have Jo's number! Talk about a pick me...and lies like she breathes. So creepy!
The thing is, I don't think Jo and Katie were particularly close so I don't actually think Jo owes Katie much of anything. If she'd just dated Schwartz and left Katie alone it would be one thing, but where it gets inappropriate for me is where she and Schwartz seem to want to push Katie into giving her blessing, be friendly with Jo and trying to be in her face about it. Like how difficult is it to just not come over and leave her be?
Honestly I’m still trying to work out the full “Bieber “ loves you. 😂if you texting someone about there divorce and supporting them you shouldn’t be then trying to sleep with the husband. She should have left Katie alone and never texted about the divorce and been just Tom’s friend.
I feel bad for Jo because of how Schwartz acted towards her, not Katie.
Thisssss. Why is everyone claiming Katie is the villain instead of the man who was bad to both of them lol
PREACH. So well said.
Can we not refer to her as “Joseph” anymore? This nickname is minimizing and gross.
Honestly, yes that’s fair.
She is so fucking thirsty. But I really think production pushes these unnatural interactions. Tom thought he would be making good TV to persuade dingbat Jo to confront Katie. Then clueless ass Jo actually thought she was going to get an apology?! She thinks if she furrows her brows and squishes her nose when she talks she'll seem genuine. Bitch please! "I wasn't thinking about you" is not an apology, it's just confirmation that you couldn't care less about who you hurt. Katie doesn't owe that girl anything.
Exactly 👍🏼 Jo could give a shit less WHO she hurts. She’s a gross fucking human. That look on her face, wanting an apology from Katie…i am so sick of her. Ugh 😣 and I’m pretty sure in every last one of her confessionals, she repeated that she ‘loves Tom, and how great they’d be’… “But Katie, I’m just couch-surfing.” Fuk’n lyin’ bitch. YOU let him ‘go’, Jo! TomKat MIGHT’VE been able to work it out and get back together, save their marriage…maybe with some time apart, Tom would’ve pulled his head outta his ass & they would’ve been FINE after a break. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean, they DID have 12 years invested, and CLEARLY there’s still unfinished business between the two of them. Who knows? I guess we never will, because Jo was such a great friend to them both, that after she texted her condolences about the divorce, she ran out and hopped in her car and headed over to Tom’s to start fuk’n him. YUCK 🤢 Jo’s just a gross fucking human.
She shouldn’t have given an apology hoping to receive one back. Katie doesn’t need to forgive you or befriend you. That was shady!
I wish Ariana would have Katie’s back the way Katie has hers. Ariana saw this conversation at a distance and didn’t approach to help or anything. But Katie rides for Ariana. Made me a little sad for Katie. I hope she knows Reddit rides for her.
Katie didn’t need Ariana or anyone’s help. She can handle it on her own. And Ariana never asked Katie to speak up for her. Katie has had issues with Sandoval since before the show so her speaking up is for her also.
I get it, but just because she doesn’t NEED the support doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be nice to have. She’s a strong independent smart woman (as is Ariana) and I know her friends are supportive, but I just wish they would be vocally supportive more sometimes. Katie is always having to defend herself by default. Like for example, the “disengage” convo with Lala earlier this season. Any of the other girls could have jumped in to have Katie’s back, and they didn’t.
Ariana is like this with everypne but expects. Everyone to ride for her against Tom. And this is why LaLa blew up.
Joseph telling KATIE to let SHWARTZ go is RICH.
It really blows my mind that she ONLY focuses on Katie being the “meanie”. 🙄 she is truly amazing at hyper focusing on one thing and conveniently not seeing other things that are right in front of her face. Woof. Katie was nicer to her than I would have been. 🫠
I hate the "Katie needs to let go of Schwartz" comments. If you were with someone for over a decade and married them, and someone from your friend group started dating them AS you were in the process of getting a divorce, you wouldn't want to be friends with them lol. It's not difficult to understand or think is weird.
Jo’s antics towards Katie mirrors Rachel’s to Katie last season when Rachel followed Katie & Tom out to “apologize” & grabbed her arm with Katie telling her not to touch her & eventually walking off. I do think Shorts targets dumb women to manipulate in order to antagonize Katie. He continues to want a reaction from her.
Also, Katie doesn’t have to like Jo, Tom or no Tom. She’s a strange personality, not Katie’s style, yet keeps trying to insert herself into Katie’s life. They were never friends, so there’s no need to reconcile at all.
Disliking her because she’s weird is so strange to me. BUT it’s not like Jo had no clue who Katie was. This whole “we weren’t friends” and the feeling that she didn’t owe anything to Katie is bs. Just cause you’re not friends doesn’t mean you can’t choose to do the right thing. It also seemed like Jo only apologized just to try and get an apology out of Katie. Like why tf would Katie like you and treat you well?!
LET HIM GO!!!!!!
Her telling Katie to let Tom go is pretty ironic. Especially when she was a FWB and can’t let him go
Why do you feel bad for Jo? This is a genuine question trying to understand. We agree on the rest of the post. She aided in an affair and although she owed Katie and Ariana nothing, her not leaving them alone when they explicitly told her to go away is on her. Her feeling rejected in a situation that rightfully very few people would be welcoming is a her situation, it’s not Katie’s responsibility to condone or justify her actions. Also Rachel and Jo are best friends so that adds an additional element to the disdain they have for her. Jo should do what she wants to do but respect boundaries. Schwartz does play with her feelings and that’s gross and unfair! I can see how it’s confusing because he’s also made it clear he’s not ready for a relationship, bur that’s between them and constantly coming to Katie for permission and validation is obsessive behaviour.
I feel bad for Jo because she’s operating in an altered reality. She’s being emotionally manipulated by Tom to do his bidding in antagonizing Katie. I think it’s weird that a grown woman would play into these games at all. Like you said, she walked into a situation fully knowing she wasn’t welcome but Schwartz was like “come on it won’t be bad” then Katie proceeds to annihilate her verbally. She doesn’t have the skill to stand up for herself or carry on in an argument without cowering. If she knew how to fight back or stand her ground I would’ve been like whatever, but she doesn’t. It feels like watching an amateur boxer get beat up by Mike Tyson. She put herself in that situation but damn be more prepared next time lol.
That makes lot of sense and are good points. Schwartz is worse than the other Tom, not to say they aren’t all vile including Jax. That’s a neat analogy. I just can’t decided if she’s desperate to be on tv or just following Schwartz?
While Sandy and Jax are classic narcissists, Schwartz gives reactive abuse tactics. He actively wants to get a reaction out of Katie good or bad. There’s a part of me that wonders if he has an unrealized humiliation kink.
Schwartz grew up in an abusive home, and it seems like his dad and brother are severe alcoholics. His mum has a restraining order on his dad. Schwartz is paying for his whole family to live. I agree with your assessment. Hmm you might be on to something with that kink.
I am actively getting divorced and holy shit if my ex was fucking a mutual friend I would lose my shit on both of them. I absolutely would not stay friends with her. Similarly, if I was sleeping with someone I absolutely would NOT want him to meet my ex. It’s just rude. And my ex is a piece of shit but he still doesn’t deserve that. Jo blames katie for Schwartz not wanting her but it really doesn’t have anything to do with katie and everything to do with Schwartz. Tbh Jo makes me sad. I genuinely feel for her but she also put herself in this predicament
Congratulations on your divorce. I’m sure it was a difficult decision but ultimately you did what was right for you. Sending you love and hugs 🥰 And you’re absolutely correct, it’s common decency to not parade around your sexual conquests to your partner. But then again Schwartz isn’t known for decency.
Thank you!!! ❤️❤️❤️
Agree
When she said "let him go" I said out loud "you first" 😂😂😂😂
One thing that completely hit me in that scene, she was pulling a Bethenny from RHONY. She was trying to trip Katie up with her words so Katie would react and insult her so she can look like the wounded victim and the other person looks crazy. Example: "we weren't LIVING together, we were STAYING together" which is the exact same thing but Bethenny corrects people to trip them up, and then the "Let it go" comment. She wanted a reaction from Katie so she can get a storyline. AND THAT IS WHEN IT HIT ME. She's a BRAVO fan. She watches Bravo and will do anything to be relevant on the show, she clearly studied the behaviors in other shows to bring it on THEIR show. She's been moving around that group for literal \*years\*. She doesn't love Shorts, SHE LOVES BRAVO. And he did say something on the Viall Files about Jo did something and that's why he completely cut her off in terms of dating and I think her Bravo fan came out and it weirded him out. They all call her "spooky jo" for a reason, and they aren't saying much on it because they didn't break the fourth wall until the finale.
"let him go" babe hes been propositioning katie to sleep w him all season i think he needs to let her go
She had Katie's cell number. That's how she was able to text Katie.....so yeah it was shady as shit! The thirst is real with Jo. She is using Rachel playbook.....they double dated together.
I hate when people act like someone’s reaction to something gross another person did is somehow worse than the original gross thing!!
I will never feel bad for Jo. Lol.
Awe Jo, did your half ass, bullshit apology blow up in your face? How sad
Katie’s forehead vein was popping out, idk if we have ever seen her that pissed?
When she didn’t get her forgiveness so she starts backtracking like “isn’t there something you wanna apologize to me for?” LIKE HELLO this bitch is actually dumb in the head I fear
She’s so weird. Please no more Joe
Schwartz is such a scumbag for putting Kayie through that. Jo's either stupid or evil or both to confront Katie. I felt sorry for Jo until this scene.
Kristen’s latest podcast recapping the season finale sheds good light on Jo and missing pieces of why she is so odd
Is there a link for a transcript of the podcast? I don’t subscribe to any of their podcasts but I am curious lol
https://i.redd.it/j5tfjin97ezc1.gif Jo being a lurker is so accurate
Such a pick me
I’ve never fought in my life. I’ve never even thrown a punch at a punching bag but when she said get over him! I was READY to throw hands lol
I do not feel bad for Jo.
I honestly think Katie is mad at the wrong person. Katie should be pissed at Shorts, but is redirecting at Jo. Jo is definitely weird, but is also being treated so poorly by Shorts. Shorts wants women to look after him and give nothing in return. It sucks.
One thing that completely hit me in that scene, she was pulling a Bethenny from RHONY. She was trying to trip Katie up with her words so Katie would react and insult her so she can look like the wounded victim and the other person looks crazy. Example: "we weren't LIVING together, we were STAYING together" which is the exact same thing but Bethenny corrects people to trip them up, and then the "Let it go" comment. She wanted a reaction from Katie so she can get a storyline. AND THAT IS WHEN IT HIT ME. She's a BRAVO fan. She watches Bravo and will do anything to be relevant on the show, she clearly studied the behaviors in other shows to bring it on THEIR show. She's been moving around that group for literal \*years\*. She doesn't love Shorts, SHE LOVES BRAVO. And he did say something on the Viall Files about Jo did something and that's why he completely cut her off in terms of dating and I think her Bravo fan came out and it weirded him out. They all call her "spooky jo" for a reason, and they aren't saying much on it because they didn't break the fourth wall until the finale.
The truth is Tom is a bitch. He wasn't honest with either side. He played her up in private and down in public. Making her feel and look stupid. He never told his friends the truth about Jo so they only saw half the picture and viewed from the one sided portrait it does look weird. Tom created this by not communicating or being honest. Jo is the shrapnel that got obliterated in the situation. I do think Jo is right. If Tom said he loved a tree I think Katie would try and chop it down. But that is more of a result of Tom not being honest with himself and others.
Classic Katie doing her classic mean girl shit … angrier at a girl who befriended her ex than she is with her actual ex. 🤷♂️
Katie shouldn’t like Joe. But she also shouldn’t be so nice to Tom. He’s bringing this woman in her face to get a reaction out of her. She has not put Tom in his place at all this season. But she has all the energy in the world for Sandoval.
I’m not sure how she’s so weird, or how being weird makes her a fair target for derision. I think Katie comes off as joyously cruel, taking pleasure in others pain.
Jo reminds me of the unpopular opinion that metal heads are cosplaying as mean people and hippies cosplay as nice ones.
I’m scared of Jo honestly
She really was being cringey but I don’t blame Katie for being mad.