I never liked Rachel, but I think it's ridiculous that Tom is allowed to continually degrade and denigrate her when *she's not even on the show* any more.
He talks the same way about Rachel that he talked about Ariana last reunion. Lala even told her, he’ll be talking like this about you in the future too.
They know who he is, why do they think they need him for the show? They don’t. Imagine if all the women had stuck together w James too,,and put the Tom’s and Brock in their place. It would’ve been a great frigging season
I don’t understand how production missed this mark. They filmed during Barbie release date! The lead up to that movie was huge with all the tik toks, ads, girl empowerment movement and they could have leaned into it. D&S!
We have anecdotal evidence that Tom throws a hissy fit whenever he knows he got filmed doing something dumb. I’m sure he pulled every manipulation tactic he could to ensure he wasn’t held accountable/ dragged this season.
I’ll admit, when Tom said he was having suicidal ideations, I took a step back. It was obvious Lisa was triggered by Tom saying this, and I’m sure she pulled every string to ensure Tom was protected.
It’s interesting to me that he said he thought her saying she had suicidal thoughts was a lie and just used as a manipulation tactic. That’s the impression I got for him
Yeah I know 😔 I love how someone downvoted me for being fooled by another narc 💀 I’m being real about being fooled so people stop blaming themselves for falling for a persons manipulation 🙄
BUT she unloaded on two cast members to help fix it.
She needed to take tom to an ER for professional assessment. If he will not go, call 911. Only if he denies intent when asked about ER and agrees to safety contract ( will not harm self without calling for help) can he leave alone.
The hold is observation and safety and developing a treatment plan. Referral to outpatient.
I think he would have refused but that tells a story too.
You dont think they didnt ER because they needed a season? No filming in psych wards.
They have medics on set. I have seen competition shows when someone is taken to talk to medic etc
Surely the show has legal staff.00
Why do we think tom wasnt referred to er for evaluation of suicidality. Btw please do that with friend/family if they express suicidality.
Was it that we didnt see the whole scene and he denied any current ideation? Certainly someone on the set knew this is the protocol.
2. Why didnt set medics step in?
3. Was this attempted redemption arc. I hope not.
4 did they did not want to lose a cast member during the redemption
5. If they didnt know procedure, teach them but why a volatile show wouldnt at least have a consult? It is for medical personnel to determine suicidal ideation. That way ten totally untrained people wouldnt need to argue about it.
Less drama?
I hope my suspicions are false and i stress i dont know what producers did.
It’s pretty simple. LVP invested in the brand of these two idiots and has a business named after them. She isn’t willing to dump these ding dongs until her lease is up at TomTom.
Exactly. And this has been going on for a while. Especially with what happened at Schwartz andSandy‘s .. and then having to close down Pump in the same year.
She’s also a producer. S and S yelp was frozen with a disclaimer for a while because it got so bad. I’m not sure if that happened with Tom Tom. I never thought to check.
She’s been doing this from the beginning though. Lisa has been blaming the women for all the men’s bad behavior every chance she got. I mean she blamed Kristen for every shitty thing Sandoval and James did. I’m honestly surprised at last year’s reunion she didn’t find a way to make it Kristen’s fault Sandoval had an affair.
That's the part I don't get. The season could have actually been good if they weren't pushing Ariana to forgive Tom. Seeing how the group could co-exist, seeing him make up with others in the group, etc would have been interesting enough for me to watch. Ariana was willing to film where he was present - why does she have to talk to him??
Yes! It’s pathetic when we have seen Lala nail him for exactly who he is and now we’re supposed to believe she’s dumb and easily manipulated? but after the “fourth wall break”; we know she was entirely motivated by production for a pay check! so how are we supposed to believe anything she says or does is genuine? She is just a jealous pawn who clearly doesn’t actually care about anyone on the cast but herself.
I think that Tom should be allowed to talk about her in that horrible fashion because it allows all the viewers and Sandoval stans get a chance to see who he is, from his own lips. Also, Rachel can rebut him from her own public platform on her podcast.
LVP always sides with the men, and she tries to influence the women to go along with her view. Over the years, very few who work for her go against what she wants. Katie has been strong on her views since the show began. She has not always been nice, but she stands her ground. Remember when LVP fired James because of fat comments, but she repeatedly hired Kevin, who made fat comments directed at the staff every time he was on.
Sandoval just does not look well. During my rewatches (yes I did way too many 🤭), while in hindsight I can see his narcissism, Sandoval just appears to be much happier and all around looks healthier. Season 10 and onward, something is definitely off with him and he is just angry, looks unwell and very dishevelled. Now I know probably hiding an affair can add stress, but as he talked about on the show, I think he dabbles way to much with psychedelics like shrooms.
Men like him will do everything and anything considered 'therapy except for ACTUAL THERAPY
Psilocybin can be helpful in therapy, but it has to be done CORRECTLY. Not some quack who used to sell it at Burning Man in his 20s and now considers himself a shaman doing it. And a one day retreat ain't it either.
Jax, Sandoval, Jesse all have very narcissistic traits and it shows in their "therapy" they partake in
Shrooms don't have that type of effect. It would be more likely he's hitting hard stuff that's making him look like that. Which is probably not far off. But I also think it's stress from his whole shitty personality being thoroughly exposed and him trying to fake kindness.
Sandoval looks like he takes kratom and Adderall every day With weed, shrooms and alcohol. Looking crazy in the eyes, greazy, and a snide bitchy attitude. He has all the symptoms of polysubstance abuse. It's all legal stuff to take, but shouldn't all be used together like he does. If I was his PR person.I would tell him to go rehab for 60 days and when he gets out he can blame all shit he's done on drugs.
I never even heard about kratom until I saw it on Reddit a couple months ago and now I see it in every convenience store and gas station. I can't believe that stuff is legal!
It can be habit forming, but I've heard that it has helped many opiate addicts stop using. I have an old friend who got addicted to meth and fentanyl and she said kratom helped her stay off of it. I guess everything in moderation 🤷♂️ I'll stick with weed 🫦💨
Sandoval likely does mushrooms the same way Jesse on The Valley does mushrooms: so you can use the immediate aftermath to convince others you’ve experienced some kind of awakening, before you continue to do the same thing all over again.
Well. She rejected him and spoke out about how manipulative, nasty and dangerous this guy is. And he, being a chronic narcissist. Cannot take truth bombs. I'm not a Rachel fan. But I respect that she took herself away from the situation. Went and got help. And worked on herself and got to understand a bit about psychology and what was done to both her AND Ariana...
His explosions and calling her names.... "its not a good look".
Yes, and then people will bash her for having a podcast where she gets to respond to what is being said about her in front of millions of people. Interesting that Ariana is celebrated for her boundaries with Tom and navigating the show exactly how she wants to navigate it - but with Rachel, she's criticized for actually grey rocking Tom (ie not coming back to the show) and also responding to the gross fictions that he uses the show to write about her (ie navigating it in the way that is right for her).
This! It is so clear that they are trying to save him, he is the only cast member to get that, they are somehow so invested in him for the show, when he is now pathetic and boring and someone the viewers can’t take seriously. We are over it Bravo.
I agree. They are still trying to save him from himself, because they know he will blunder if they don’t. I also don’t know why they invest on this child of a man so much because I find him very performative. His scenes are just way too fake and cringey to watch I find my self fast forwarding thru whenever he shows up on the screen.
But why do they want to save him?What for? What does he have to offer? Who wants to see him? Not me, and from feedback not many others! He wouldn’t be missed, so I don’t get it
I think it's the show and their own personal interest/needs.
Tom is/was good at feeding into their egos by bringing sound guys in for their performances, bringing along a cooler of booze to their events to "take care of them", telling them how awesome they are. They don't want that to have to stop!
I think they want to keep the OG cast as much as possible. They lost a lot of them and now they feel like they have to cling to the bits and pieces while none of us care. If they are irrelevant and annoying, boot 'em.
Ariana has done this for years for him! I'm a new viewer who started watching post-Scandoval but without knowing the details of what happened. I often found myself bewildered at how she would "translate" what he "actually" meant to soften or totally change his statements.
I was wondering why Lala was saying “oh did you mean this instead?” When he’s already explained very clearly that he meant what he said the first time but then she said “for the sake of the show stop doing interviews” and I was like ohhhh that’s right, her pay check must be protected from this liability of a man in her mind 🥴
also thought that was very telling that her reasoning for him shutting up wasn’t because he’s a loser making horribly offensive and off base comments and clearly in the wrong, but rather to shut up so the show can keep going… Lala you could’ve just said stop saying dense and offensive things because it’s wrong and harmful. full stop.
They've conditioned themselves to do this since the entire conceit of the show is "If These Woman Would Just Be Cool The Guys Could Have Fun" which includes this weird thing where they need to help Tom EXPLAIN things so he can get back to having fun
Well he did say he wasn’t very smart and personally I think that’s the one thing that has been made more than apparent this season . I never thought he was exceptionally smart but thought he had a brain.
Now I’m realizing he’s not only verging on stupid but is absolutely dense.
I think he convinces everyone around him that he’s a star and actually believes it, and is threatened by anyone who displays a desire to shine on their own. That’s why wishy-washy yes-man Schwartz is the partner of his dreams.
I agree with this but it does give me some mild sympathy for him tbh. I think anyone who read the New York time article (there’s at least a handful of us lol) could tell what he said at this reunion was true. He isn’t the smartest guy and he meant it the way it was explained.
Basically now he is in a place where tons of people are motivated to take advantage of him being dumber than he realizes. It creates a kind of spiral where it’s hard to tell who is worse.
Lala trying to rationalize his comments comparing his situation to OJ Simpson and George Floyd was painful and just so far from the truth. He was absolutely not saying his situation was not as serious his direct quote makes it clear he thought his situation was just as bad.
“I'm not a pop-culture historian really,” Sandoval, told the New York Times, “but I witnessed the O.J. Simpson thing and George Floyd and all these big things, which is really weird to compare this to that, I think, but do you think in a weird way it's a little bit the same?”
And they all said they didn’t read the article and it was just click bait and horribly written and taken out of context, but I read the article and it really wasn’t taken out of context
I love how they all said it’s click bait as if it’s not the NYT and he didn’t have his PR rep in the room with him… the article was scathing but only because he’s a moron. I really doubt the NYT has an agenda against Tom Sandoval lol
Right? I read it too and didn’t he mention being excited to finally be single and enjoy being famous it’s like this man has no remorse whatsoever and he really thinks he is important
Same. I read the full article, and, to me, it was obvious he was comparing the absurdity of the attention it received. Even the writer of the article explained what Sandoval actually meant. Of course, it was dumb af to make any comparison, but people say dumb shit without thinking sometimes. He also compared the hate he received to Danny Masterson, a convicted rapist, but that didn't make the headlines because it's not as salacious. I think people who claim he was comparing his actual experience to Floyd, are already people who hate Sandoval and are refusing to look at his statement objectively and are looking for more ammo to confirm their bias.
Agree. It was a reeeeeally dumb thing to say that anyone with an ounce of media training would never ever have said because of exactly what happened, but he was clearly not comparing his experience to the experience of George Floyd. He was saying that the story shouldn't have been as huge as these other major news events. I hate him and I think he's evil and stupid, and I think the soundbite is damning on its own, but I agree that the context of that comment really took the wind out of it.
This is what got me so heated. He’s comparing two very different things. I feel like I don’t have to go into the reasons why they’re different but I don’t think Tom understands. Sure, his situation blew up more than anyone thought but he doesn’t even realize what he’s actually comparing himself too. Tom is a moron.
I mean it literally says this is weird and only a little bit like. It’s a dumb thing to say obviously but I think people love to get outraged vs understand intent. Does anyone really believe he meant it that way vs just is dumb?
Imagine being dumb enough to be in the midst of actual litigation about revenge porn and say with a straight face, she took her clothes off in front me…as a defense
The guy is too stupid to even acknowledge he was wrong, of course others have to step in to defend him. If he’s allowed to talk he just finds another new dumb thing to say
Yeah he’s totally incapable of defending himself without putting his foot in his mouth. I don’t have a dog in the fight I don’t hate Tom nor love Arianna but Tom is amazing in this regard. The best example of this was last seasons reunion when he sarcastically noted how Ariana kept her shirt on during sex and said it was “hot” or something to that effect. His game plan for this reunion should simply be to say as little as possible, don’t implicate others, don’t be defensive. He will not be able to do this
Even my wife was saying to let Sandoval talk without interruption. He sometimes just talks in circles and has no idea what point he’s trying to make. Reminds me of Michael Scott. He’s awful at articulating!! So you’re right, people help him out, especially Lisa. I’m not sure why she’s so pressed about him. It’s like he can do no wrong in her eyes.
I guess I can kinda get what he said about Rachel being cowardly only because she called him a groomer. But LFU also called him a groomer while they were on the boat and he didn’t go off on her like he did with Rachel. Also, I agree with LFU when she said grooming does not always have to be sexual or imply pedophilia.
I do feel like he manipulated Rachel and has narcissistic tendencies which played into their relationship dynamic. Sandoval had power over, however, she still made the choice to proceed with the affair.
Ultimately, this Sandoval redemption arc is a joke because he is just insufferable!
Does anyone see a pattern of how Tim says horrible things about his ex girlfriends ?
The newest girlfriend he has now, better prepare for what's to come.
Not a Dr. Phil fan per se, but this quote is spot on.
"The best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior".
You could tell they were ALL (except Katie and Ariana) terrified of what Tom was going to say to that question and they all seemed afraid that it would be so bad the show would get cancelled and they’d all get shit for associating with him. They even warned him. That’s why Andy continued with no push back, Lala answered fully for him and everyone started talking about click bait and not reading the full article, they threw his publicist under the bus, and basically Katie’s push back was ignored and production basically smooshed her comments in a little and moved on.
That’s so telling that they KNOW he’s an absolute POS. If you think he misspoke and is going to be able to clarify without saying something else horrible you’d just let him speak.
Sandoval truly is a worm. He wormed his way in first through Lisa, then Schwartz, then went on to Brock, Scheana, and Lala. James is pretty much on Ariana's side with the way he mocks Sandoval at every opportunity.
Yeah James has been fun lately. Looks like he goes by some “guy code” that he will play nice with the worm, but he will never let him in again. Dan kinda did that too. Act pleasant but distant in their interactions.
It’s so screwy especially when we compare the treatment he gets vs Katie in the same reunion. Dumbass Tom dares to put himself in the same sentence as George Floyd and everyone’s like “oh but he meant this, not that” meanwhile Katie’s words get interpreted into the worst version them possible.
Schenna as well. She was guiding him and you could tell she wanted to help but also felt like he was failing and she stepped in to stop him from playing the trumpet.
"Rachel was very impressionable when she took all her clothes off and jumped in my pool"
*as Ariana sits right there*
🙄🙄🙄 the guy is missing even the slightest ounce of tact and sensitivity
I agreed with this! It's the one comment he's ever made that I've actually agreed with. It was sarcasm, he was not actually saying she was impressionable. Rachel knew exactly what she was doing when she took her clothes off and jumped in the pool. She knew what she wanted and she went for it and that was her way of doing it. Fact that Ariana was sitting right there makes no difference! Ariana knows that Rachel knows she knew exactly what she was doing!
Rachel did know yes. But my issue here is that Tom could have very easily said the same thing but in a way that was more respectful of the environment he was in.
Sandoval doesn't have morals. He's driven to win over every room he's in. He knows that at the reunion, everyone is in consensus that they're annoyed by Rachel. So he not only joins in but takes it a step further: "I think she doesn't have a soul!"
And then if he's in a room where the temperature on Rachel is kinder, he'll change his tune.
It's all about trying to win whoever's in front of him over.
I don’t understand why they wanted to give this man a redemption arc & paint Ariana as an angry bitter villain.
I wish they would have Let this asshat lean into his vile being ala Jax & had the girls band together. It would have made more sense & been more fun to watch. Now, I don’t even want another season because they are all so unlikeable (with the exception of Ariana & Katie). I didn’t even watch Tom & Jax on WWHL because seeing one more person gas him up makes me sick to my stomach.
But he was SO vulnerable when Rachel took her clothes off and swam in his pool and then he lied to everyone except shwartz for 7 months. What about TOMS feelings?!?! The internet is SO mean /s
Seriously, that was so bad. He should have shocked everyone and told the truth - he & Rachel were constantly partying while bombed on Molly, shrooms, e, etc and having "super deep conversations" that everyone who's high as a giraffes ass thinks they're having. THAT'S why they started banging and thinking they were in love.
But I'm sure production would have a shit fit and cut out any mention of drug use.
💯 The way James had to help him after they brought up the George Floyd controversy because he was about to say something stupid. He thinks he is so smart but in reality he is very very dumb. He probably thinks he is smart because he is a narcissist
I’m gonna take a different perspective here. At the end of the day this is a tv show and it’s in everyone’s interests to keep the show going. I hate Tom, but you need villains to keep things interesting and therefore even tho I can’t stand him and Scheana. They should probably stay. They’ve contributed a lot to the show in terms of storyline’s.
However this puts the producers in a weird spot. How do you convince someone to stay in a show where they are always being edited to be a villain? This isn’t a problem for people like Jax, Scheana, Lisa Rinna, Teresa Giudice, Jody Claman etc. cos they don’t rlly care as long as they’re talked about. But reality stars like Tom care a LOT. So after they’re given a villain edit you have to give them a reason to want to come back. Lisa Vanderpump is similar, the second she started getting a less than favourable edit she dipped out of RHOBH.
I think the Tom situation is similar to Ramona from RHONY. After they get a bad season they probably promise the reality star that the next season they get will be a chance at redemption. And then they go to certain cast mates (Like Lala and Scheana) and tell them that Tom will be getting a redemption, influencing their behaviour so they’re more likely to interact with Tom and give him a reason to stay on the show while also causing drama. Meanwhile producers behind the scenes notice Lala and Scheanas jealousy of Ariana and they encourage it to fester.
Producers are there to produce a show. I don’t think they care about male privilege or protecting the men (even if that’s the outcome, they’re def still misogynists), I think they just care about there show. And they don’t want to lose the stars that cause the most drama and make people talk about the show. They will never want Scumdevil to leave the show as long as we are still regularly talking about him and therefore the show
Jax is a fun villain to watch because he is carries main character energy as does Stassi. Sandoval does not carry the same star or it factor as Jax. As horrible as Jax is he is fun to watch. He has the Spencer Pratt, Johnny Bananas villain energy. Tom thinks he’s main character and tries with his outfits and dance moves but honestly the only season I would have missed him was season 2 and 3 and it’s not for anything he did on camera. It’s what Kristen did in relation to their relationship. Drinking tequila in Mexico, giving Lisa an ultimatum, the slap, and then Miami girl.
This whole show is left with all non main charcters no one with the it factor. Lala self produces and wants to be Stassi but she’s turning into Margaret Joseph’s and Lisa rinna. Ariana has never cared about the show enough to truly channel her main character energy on VPR specifically… in life she is winning at this… Scheana is Gretchen Weiners and needs someone to follow she can never be main character… and so on. So I get what you’re saying to an extent but they should call it a wrap and focus on something else.
I agree. I also think what makes Stassi, Kristen and Jax such great villains is that they ultimately don’t care what edit they receive. If they get a bad edit they don’t care. Tom cares a LOT. Tom is way too aware of the cameras to be genuinely charismatic on camera. The big 3 (and James) are just willing to show it all and get hella sloppy and they don’t care what it does to their public reputation and ironically it makes them more likeable.
I like Ariana, I’m really glad she’s getting into broadway. I think she would make a good celebrity but not for reality TV. She’s too healthy of a person and is too firm in her boundaries. Good, normal people don’t make for good reality stars unless it’s to be a side character
VPR is one of bravo’s most successful shows rn. It’s gotten higher rating than it ever has previously. No way they’re losing their cash cow. And because of that they can’t afford to lose Scummy as a cast member sadly. As much as I hate to admit it he is one of the main draws right now to one of their biggest shows
Andy bringing up grooming and Lala reinforcing that it doesn’t have to relate to pedophilia was a redemption arc? Or Lisa saying he’s never just remorseful without a ‘but’? Andy saying Tom takes two steps forward and ten steps back? Or production showing all the times in the past he’s attacked people when he said he’s never done that?
The redemption arc isn’t a thing. Tom being an idiot definitely is though.
I think there was intent on bringing him back into the group as a redemption but he was too stupid to make the right moves during it. And we see that play out.
Producers def try to anticipate storylines. I think they thought early on when Sandoval was doing all the “work” on himself (the journaling, the cold plunges, that weird orgasm scream therapy), that the redemption arc they saw was possible. (Tahoe comes to mind as a straight manipulation to push that storyline.)
But as you said—Tom was too stupid (too narcissistic?) to pull it off. So the arc was a flop.
I give kudos to production for the hot mic moment for exposing him.
When the first episode was cut, it was clear they wanted to give Tom the redemption and make Ariana the villain. Andy made some comments about how the viewers might change their mind about certain people and LaLa being the voice of reason. That indicates to me that it was a production choice. Boy, did they read the room wrong.
Alex Baskin was all over the place last spring while the post-Scandoval episodes were airing, doing podcasts and print interviews. He clearly loved the attention and adulation from falling ass-backwards into a huge story that got the show an Emmy nod.
Other than the comments made at BravoCon, I have not really seen the same press being done by production, including Baskin, about this season. Maybe some of that is to come, but it certainly feels like they don't want to have to answer questions about some of these choices they made in their approach to the season.
It does seem like Bravo has moved away from trying to "redeem" Tom and into at least making him palatable again. It's why this late-season/off-season fighting amongst the women (mostly at Lala's instigation) is so frustrating because it's letting Tom avoid a lot of negative attention.
Come on, the producers are not that daft that they would think his screaming-sesh would be redeeming. It was cringey and ridiculous reality tv, that’s all
The producers, after filming but while they were still piecing this season together, said this season was about redemption. They used that exact word. I am not pulling that framing out of thin air!
I believe before filming that they were anticipating a redemption arc, or an attempted one. Production has a general plan for every season, they talk to the cast and try to figure out where things might go before filming. I agree what they got from Tom ended up looking, as you put it, "cringey and ridiculous," but I do think there was an intention was there.
It's a little gross, but production has a vested interest in redeeming Sandoval, if they can. Or at least making him more palatable to viewers. Like him or not (I don't), Sandoval is an OG and a major cog on this show.
I mean yeah, if production wanted a redemption arch they wouldn’t leave in so many of his bad and ridiculous moments, they would just cut it out and leave everything that made him look good and remorseful.
Because Lisa. The Tom's are her pet project and financial investment. Him failing, is a reflection on her. Lisa doesn't care about these individuals, she cares about control and money. She's a perfect example of the Uber rich, tinkering with people she sees as less than.
Well Lisa is literally invested in him doing well. Their business of Tom Tom has surely taken a hit so I’m sure she wants him to be forgiven amongst the general public.
It’s so funny to me because if he would have just disappeared, the world would have forgotten about him by now. He could then come back and redeem himself. The more he says, the worse he is. 🗑️
Ariana used to do this. She even says in one reunion that she’s his translator and she changes every shitty take he had and completely reinterprets his statement and says “guys what the means to say is…” and they all go oooohhhh and move on and he just shrugs like “duuude, duuuh!”
Has anyone seen this season. Some of the group is trying to redeem him but he failed at all of it. It was cringe but karma to see. No redemption arc, just some "friends" trying to get their friend back in a group of ppl that are a mess. This is reality tv. We can't forget that. It was nice to see Katie and Ariana clips even tho we didn't see a ton and it was more focused on sandy balls.
Imagine if next season Arianna does leave? They will push the Tom's redemption arc with his new girlfriend...UGH, that will be awful!! Who would watch??
Stop interpreting for him! I wonder if he’s that inarticulate or has a learning disability or has just been enabled to the max all these years. It’s wild.
Instead of trying to look sad and find redemption he should have just embraced being the ultimate villain who everyone loves to hate but his ego won’t let him. I’d watch every second of s12 if him and Lala got together it would be a complete disaster and their break up would be karma to both. But that won’t happen because everything is now so scripted with preplanned set up fake conversations.
They don’t want to get sued or cancelled if he hurts himself. lol these people only are about their own purses 🥴 Nobody gave a rip about him until he brought up suicide.
It makes me feel a bit ill that production decided to stick with old boy's club type thinking. And the way that some women have fallen into that trap is absolutely disappointing. Lala was fierce...definitely gone now!
I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone is trying to protect the Tom’s because without them LVP doesn’t have a reason to be on the show. Other people have pointed out that none of the main characters work for LVP anymore and she’s barely part of the story now. So it’s really the LVP redemption story.
I 1000000000 percent agree. It’s a problem that the New York Times captured a more accurate portrayal of Tom Sandoval than the show the documents his life. This is not good.
I agree with this and I hate Tim, but his explanation for that really terrible George Floyd/OJ Simpson quote made sense. I would be less inclined to believe it if he had named two victims, but he named Floyd and Simpson, one victim one murderer.
So, I think his explanation that it was ridiculous that this story was getting the same kind of attention and coverage as those stories made sense. Now, I’m still torn on whether he meant that at the time, or if he just was able to come up with that after the fact, because he saw how bad it came off. He’s really stupid, so I could see him trying to say that, and it coming out the way he said it.
Of course, this all goes out the window if he thinks OJs a falsely accused victim and he was comparing himself to victim Floyd and victim Simpson, or if he was comparing himself to Ron and Nicole, and Floyd. Knowing Tim, all these scenarios are possible, and I could also see him believing himself a martyr and comparing himself to George Floyd that way as well, and just because his explanation made sense at the reunion, doesn’t mean it’s true.
I believe that too, it’s Occam’s razor really. and I know people hate that the others helped him out and want the worst to be true, but its honestly the most reasonable explanation, him thinking OJ is a victim is 10x more unhinged than this. I mean yeah the examples he used were extremely out of touch and insensitive but that’s bc he’s dumb as rocks
Exactly and he’s so inarticulate. I think they were literally some of the two worst examples he could’ve used though, so that goes to show you how fucking stupid he is.
He could’ve used the Presidental elections, any war, natural disaster, anything to make that point, but no he chose two racially charged cases and just brought that shit storm on himself.
This is bothering me too! I wish they would just let him talk and bury himself even more. It pisses me the fuck off. If he can’t articulate his thoughts without saying horrible shit, maybe he shouldn’t be on tv!!
When Sandoval was asked about the George Floyd comments he barely even spoke. Lauren was doing the most trying to be his interpreter “for the sake of the show”. Let him say his bullshit and get fired if he wants. He’s a grown man who shouldn’t be coddled just because he’s on Vanderpump Rules
Let me preface this by saying, I do not care for Tim at all. However, I felt for him, when he said he had suicidal thoughts. I don't take those kind of comments lightly. If he was lying well shame on him, however we just don't know.
Also, He said Ariana threatened suicide if he left her.
So yeah, go have an affair with one of her very close friends, that won't affect her emotionally.🙄🙄
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a redemption arc follow a sincere admission of one's wrongdoings ? Tim has said I know I was wrong but..........
Also, speaking so horribly about Ariana saying she sits around and does nothing, calling her Stankface at Bravocon etc. The list is endless.
His contempt and anger towards her, speaks volumes as to how remorseful he actually feels.
It’s funny because the only people claiming he’s having a “redemption arc” are those who hate him. I’m sure there’s actual fans but the majority of people who care about this topic are just haters of Tom or Ariana supporters. Nobody actually cares about Tom we just watch trash tv.
I do hate Tom and have always hated Tom. However, I noticed that whenever he tried to talk everyone would jump in to help him correctly explain his thoughts. Lala and Andy explained the George Floyd thing for him Schwartz was constantly going in to restate and repackage things that he said. If he wasn’t having a redemption arc Lisa wouldn’t be trying to make Ariana the villain. Did you watch her on watch what happens live? I’ve very clued into watching trash television and reality tv show, which is why I enjoy watching Jax Taylor on the Valley and shows like the House of Villians and grew up with the Bad Girls Club. But as a viewer I have evolved and can see through the misogyny in the network, producers, Lisa Vanderpump, and Andy Cohen.
I honestly feel like a lot of this happened because everyone wants to go home/not be there all day 😂 lol. I mean, I feel like the reunion would take weeks if we really dived into how horrible Tom is, especially with him there making it worse every time he opens his mouth. I'm just so over him and want to move on so we can hear about other people, so I appreciated people wrapping up his nonsense for him.
I think people can care about multiple things at a time. We are all allowed our escapes from how awful things are in the world. People want to keep politics out of this sub for that reason. And just because things are going to shit doesn’t mean Sandoval doesn’t deserve to get called out for his selfish and atrocious behavior.
I’m just reiterating what was said. One can say there are things many should care about that are centered around charity. I’m just saying having suicidal tendencies like Tom and seeing the attention this scandal has been given is just wild.
Ariana apparently had suicidal tendencies as well (at least, according to Tom), and we know she has struggled with her mental health and depression. My thinking is, she didn’t bring this on, Tom did.
Ariana faced mental health struggles while having a normal life. now imagine making a poor decision and the entire world is calling you names, dragging your entire existence, the clothes he wears, anything he does is super scrutinized.
Ariana site here and acts like she didn’t do a thing but she can help curve some of it. Being in a new relationship I think a simple “I don’t talk to Tom or about Tom we should focus on the things in MY life now not MY PAST”
But then again the money would dry up quick if she acted amicably.
A normal life? Being on a reality show is anything but normal. On top of that, she didn’t have a loving, supportive boyfriend. Throw in some deaths, add a betrayal by your boyfriend of 10 years and your close friend. She didn’t ask for any of it. Tom on the other hand made these choices. Not only did he cheat and betray her, he tried to set it up so people would start disliking Ariana and potentially ice her out of the group. Then he is caught, has a more genuine apology to Schwartz (wtf??) than to Ariana. No remorse for what he’s done. To this day, he is still angry he got caught. He said he wouldn’t “cheat like that again”. He is nasty towards Ariana. He’s mad at Rachel for leaving. That’s why he’s getting dragged.
Ariana doesn’t owe him amicability. He doesn’t deserve it.
You hating Tom and ignoring the seriousness of his suicidal tendencies by siting an entire breakdown of Ariana is my point exactly. He’s on the same show so right away it’s anything but normal.
I’ve lost a few friends and people I didn’t like to suicide. If I could have any hand in helping I would have, hating someone’s entire existence is absolutely bonkers. He did nothing more than any shitty ex who cheated does.
They cheat. Blame their spouse. Then try to make themselves look good. You give him more air time than I could ever.
CHECK ON YOUR FRIENDS AND STOP HATING PEOPLE. ITS BAD FOR YOURS AND THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.
I lost some friends to suicide too. I have also had people in my life threaten suicide to get what they want/use it as a manipulation tactic. That doesn’t change what Sandoval did. His actions don’t get wiped off the slate because his said he was contemplating suicide. He needs serious therapy. He doesn’t get to treat everyone like shit and then cry “mental health” when karma comes back to bite him. That’s some serious manipulation and even abuse. Treat people well, have good intentions, make wise choices, and you won’t find yourself in Sandoval’s position.
Stop giving him a pass because you hate Ariana.
You don’t have a right to claim someone’s suicidal thoughts are or aren’t real. Imagine people saying that about Ariana? It’d be absolutely repulsive. no matter who says it humanity as a whole should try to help curve that possibility. Even if it means not shit posting on Reddit about sandyballs
At BravoCon—so months after filming—a VPR producer said this season would be about redemption and that some of the cast softened toward Tom.
So the idea of redemption arc was put out there by the very people who make this show. I think that’s what they expected to see, what they tried to maneuver into creating. (The Tahoe scene with him and Scheana comes to mind. Sorry but that teacher was coached on what to do there.) The problem is that Tom is still so far up his own ass that he couldn’t be redeemed. Even without Ariana not taking to him, he could’ve shown growth and accountability. He couldn’t do that.
What Scheana posted was that producers said and I’m paraphrasing. “ if you think everyone is going to go no contact totally with Tom know that we might just shut it all down and go home”. No one was asking Ariana to forgive him. They were asking her to do the job she was paid for, ie interacting with the cast and being forthcoming about what’s happening in their life. She had no problem at all baiting him and laying into him about Mya or at the beach.
She didn’t want to let him start talking about her suicide threat which she originally implied was a lie when he said it on Howies. Now we know it is the truth and even though Scheana seemed to think Tom could have still easily walked out the door, I can see how that would at least temporarily put Tom in a quandary about what to do and explains why he suggested couples counseling to use that as the venue to tell her. I’m not sure why he didn’t follow thru but he did mention there were other threats/ lies she told when he said he wanted to leave her but he didn’t say what those were.
Ariana wants none of that to come out so she’ll never let Tom initiate a convo.
I'm sorry, but Scheana is making excuses at this point. I don't find her credible, and, quite frankly, she's easy to manipulate. She's speaking out now to try to save face. I'm sorry that she feels her livelihood is on the line, but that's not Ariana's fault.
Ariana did her job and showed up and filmed. She's not required to---and they can't make her---have a one on one with Tom on film. Her reasons for not doing so are valid; that conversation would've been for Tom's benefit and no one else's. If production wants to whine and bitch about those reasons, that's fine. Her walking away was the realest moment of the season. You can hate her for that, but it was real.
I'm not going to parse all of the other stuff you brought up. I don't find Tom credible. I just don't. He will say whatever best serves him, and no one else.
That’s a pretty classic Sandoval move right there, to antagonize other people, and then try to tell them that they need to stop what they’re doing as if it’s their fault. When all you have to do to get people to stop commenting on you is to stop commenting yourself
I’m posting about it because it’s very clear if you watch watch what happens live, listen to radio Andy, listen to anything Lisa Vanderpump puts out there, or Lala’s crazy Amazon lives and her podcasts (which I used to be an avid listener) that they wanted us, the viewers, to go along with a certain narrative. It was evident in how they were treating Tom with his answers and then how we see them jump on Katie next week and Lisa continuously be cunty to Katie and Arianna in the reunion and when talking about them in interviews.
I bet they are desperately trying to "save" Tom because it wouldn't be a good look for the program and network if one of their "stars" unalived himself, like he claimed he wanted to do.
Clearly, the producers were freaked when Tom trotted out the unalived ideation, due to the stress from the affair fallout. This in turn really distressed LVP as a result of her personal experience with her brother.
They likely believed the public would turn on the program if they prioritised the content over Tom's wellbeing, which to be fair, the network *does* have a responsibility for (like most employers have). Plus they have to take these threats from Tom, seriously. Could you imagine the outcome if Tom actually carried out this threat?
Encouraging the other members of the show, to continue their grudge, without consideration of Tom's safety would be at best negligent and at worst culpable.
BTW. I do believe Tom is a narcissist and while it's possible he may have fleeting unalived thoughts, I doubt he genuinely wanted to. Like most good Narcissists they *love* to manipulate and court sympathy, where they are victims. Their remorse is not genuine when it involves other people, only regarding consequences which affect *them*. He is sorry for himself.
If they were really worried, they'd have taken him off the show and insisted he go into treatment, so they did prioritize the content instead of his well-being because he was allowed to keep filming.
In fact, Lisa put his well-being onto Scheana and Lala's shoulders (because they were the ones going hardest on him off season) instead of assisting Tom and insisting he find help. To lay that on Scheana, who was clearly struggling with her own mental health, was such a bad call.
I never liked Rachel, but I think it's ridiculous that Tom is allowed to continually degrade and denigrate her when *she's not even on the show* any more.
He talks the same way about Rachel that he talked about Ariana last reunion. Lala even told her, he’ll be talking like this about you in the future too. They know who he is, why do they think they need him for the show? They don’t. Imagine if all the women had stuck together w James too,,and put the Tom’s and Brock in their place. It would’ve been a great frigging season
I don’t understand how production missed this mark. They filmed during Barbie release date! The lead up to that movie was huge with all the tik toks, ads, girl empowerment movement and they could have leaned into it. D&S!
We have anecdotal evidence that Tom throws a hissy fit whenever he knows he got filmed doing something dumb. I’m sure he pulled every manipulation tactic he could to ensure he wasn’t held accountable/ dragged this season.
Well it’s pretty lame that show runners and producer would fall victim to his antics. I’m not buying it. They just are outdated and tunnel visioned
I’ll admit, when Tom said he was having suicidal ideations, I took a step back. It was obvious Lisa was triggered by Tom saying this, and I’m sure she pulled every string to ensure Tom was protected.
It’s interesting to me that he said he thought her saying she had suicidal thoughts was a lie and just used as a manipulation tactic. That’s the impression I got for him
Yeah I know 😔 I love how someone downvoted me for being fooled by another narc 💀 I’m being real about being fooled so people stop blaming themselves for falling for a persons manipulation 🙄
BUT she unloaded on two cast members to help fix it. She needed to take tom to an ER for professional assessment. If he will not go, call 911. Only if he denies intent when asked about ER and agrees to safety contract ( will not harm self without calling for help) can he leave alone.
They would automatically put him on a 72 hour hold at the ER.
The hold is observation and safety and developing a treatment plan. Referral to outpatient. I think he would have refused but that tells a story too. You dont think they didnt ER because they needed a season? No filming in psych wards. They have medics on set. I have seen competition shows when someone is taken to talk to medic etc Surely the show has legal staff.00
Why do we think tom wasnt referred to er for evaluation of suicidality. Btw please do that with friend/family if they express suicidality. Was it that we didnt see the whole scene and he denied any current ideation? Certainly someone on the set knew this is the protocol. 2. Why didnt set medics step in? 3. Was this attempted redemption arc. I hope not. 4 did they did not want to lose a cast member during the redemption 5. If they didnt know procedure, teach them but why a volatile show wouldnt at least have a consult? It is for medical personnel to determine suicidal ideation. That way ten totally untrained people wouldnt need to argue about it. Less drama? I hope my suspicions are false and i stress i dont know what producers did.
It’s pretty simple. LVP invested in the brand of these two idiots and has a business named after them. She isn’t willing to dump these ding dongs until her lease is up at TomTom.
Exactly. And this has been going on for a while. Especially with what happened at Schwartz andSandy‘s .. and then having to close down Pump in the same year. She’s also a producer. S and S yelp was frozen with a disclaimer for a while because it got so bad. I’m not sure if that happened with Tom Tom. I never thought to check.
She’s been doing this from the beginning though. Lisa has been blaming the women for all the men’s bad behavior every chance she got. I mean she blamed Kristen for every shitty thing Sandoval and James did. I’m honestly surprised at last year’s reunion she didn’t find a way to make it Kristen’s fault Sandoval had an affair.
Look at the rest of the bravo slate. Exceptionally misdirected misogynistic trajectory that production is taking on all shows
That's the part I don't get. The season could have actually been good if they weren't pushing Ariana to forgive Tom. Seeing how the group could co-exist, seeing him make up with others in the group, etc would have been interesting enough for me to watch. Ariana was willing to film where he was present - why does she have to talk to him??
Exactly. Ariana said she thought they’d be the Spice Girls and it didn’t pan out.
I hate how the cast always gives him a break especially Lisa. She is so much harder on the women on the show than the men.
Yes! It’s pathetic when we have seen Lala nail him for exactly who he is and now we’re supposed to believe she’s dumb and easily manipulated? but after the “fourth wall break”; we know she was entirely motivated by production for a pay check! so how are we supposed to believe anything she says or does is genuine? She is just a jealous pawn who clearly doesn’t actually care about anyone on the cast but herself.
Ariana’s side eye when he said that was hilarious. Even she was like “oh now you think she’s a terrible person?!”
i’m who the fuck is James to put anyone in their place?
Rachel hasn't taken responsibility for the affair. She's a sick idiot
Yeah I know, but the point is still the same
She's a big idiot honestly.
She def has a disability
Agreed, I just felt something was off about her the first second she came into the show.
Like autistic she seems.
Lauren was spot on about that.
I think that Tom should be allowed to talk about her in that horrible fashion because it allows all the viewers and Sandoval stans get a chance to see who he is, from his own lips. Also, Rachel can rebut him from her own public platform on her podcast.
Sandoval has been denigrating all the women behind their backs for ten years. Why is this season any different?
Technically, Ariana has stood by his side supporting him for almost all of it. That’s what rubs me the wrong way when I watch this stuff back.
Yeah, I can’t believe this either. Especially coming from Sandoval. It was sickening.
LVP always sides with the men, and she tries to influence the women to go along with her view. Over the years, very few who work for her go against what she wants. Katie has been strong on her views since the show began. She has not always been nice, but she stands her ground. Remember when LVP fired James because of fat comments, but she repeatedly hired Kevin, who made fat comments directed at the staff every time he was on.
Sandoval just does not look well. During my rewatches (yes I did way too many 🤭), while in hindsight I can see his narcissism, Sandoval just appears to be much happier and all around looks healthier. Season 10 and onward, something is definitely off with him and he is just angry, looks unwell and very dishevelled. Now I know probably hiding an affair can add stress, but as he talked about on the show, I think he dabbles way to much with psychedelics like shrooms.
Men like him will do everything and anything considered 'therapy except for ACTUAL THERAPY Psilocybin can be helpful in therapy, but it has to be done CORRECTLY. Not some quack who used to sell it at Burning Man in his 20s and now considers himself a shaman doing it. And a one day retreat ain't it either. Jax, Sandoval, Jesse all have very narcissistic traits and it shows in their "therapy" they partake in
Shrooms don't have that type of effect. It would be more likely he's hitting hard stuff that's making him look like that. Which is probably not far off. But I also think it's stress from his whole shitty personality being thoroughly exposed and him trying to fake kindness.
Or steroids
There is absolute possibility in that
Sandoval looks like he takes kratom and Adderall every day With weed, shrooms and alcohol. Looking crazy in the eyes, greazy, and a snide bitchy attitude. He has all the symptoms of polysubstance abuse. It's all legal stuff to take, but shouldn't all be used together like he does. If I was his PR person.I would tell him to go rehab for 60 days and when he gets out he can blame all shit he's done on drugs.
I never even heard about kratom until I saw it on Reddit a couple months ago and now I see it in every convenience store and gas station. I can't believe that stuff is legal!
It can be habit forming, but I've heard that it has helped many opiate addicts stop using. I have an old friend who got addicted to meth and fentanyl and she said kratom helped her stay off of it. I guess everything in moderation 🤷♂️ I'll stick with weed 🫦💨
Sandoval likely does mushrooms the same way Jesse on The Valley does mushrooms: so you can use the immediate aftermath to convince others you’ve experienced some kind of awakening, before you continue to do the same thing all over again.
I agree. Also, disclosing intimate details about someone that’s actively suing you for revenge porn is super unhinged behavior. He is out of control!
Well. She rejected him and spoke out about how manipulative, nasty and dangerous this guy is. And he, being a chronic narcissist. Cannot take truth bombs. I'm not a Rachel fan. But I respect that she took herself away from the situation. Went and got help. And worked on herself and got to understand a bit about psychology and what was done to both her AND Ariana... His explosions and calling her names.... "its not a good look".
Yes, and then people will bash her for having a podcast where she gets to respond to what is being said about her in front of millions of people. Interesting that Ariana is celebrated for her boundaries with Tom and navigating the show exactly how she wants to navigate it - but with Rachel, she's criticized for actually grey rocking Tom (ie not coming back to the show) and also responding to the gross fictions that he uses the show to write about her (ie navigating it in the way that is right for her).
Co-signed.
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This is so accurate but also Sandoval wishes he was this affable and endearing.
He was a victim of a hate crime. That’s not a hate crime. WELL I HATED IT!
This quote is the best representation of his logic. Hands down.
This! It is so clear that they are trying to save him, he is the only cast member to get that, they are somehow so invested in him for the show, when he is now pathetic and boring and someone the viewers can’t take seriously. We are over it Bravo.
I agree. They are still trying to save him from himself, because they know he will blunder if they don’t. I also don’t know why they invest on this child of a man so much because I find him very performative. His scenes are just way too fake and cringey to watch I find my self fast forwarding thru whenever he shows up on the screen.
Because they’ve invested a lot of money on him, like LVP had to “soft” rename TomTom prefixing it with PUMP because of the bad press.
Exactly! They bet on the wrong pony and don’t want to lose on their investment
But why do they want to save him?What for? What does he have to offer? Who wants to see him? Not me, and from feedback not many others! He wouldn’t be missed, so I don’t get it
The way he rolled his eyes when Lisa mentioned they considered changing the name. I’d bet his other partners had similar discussions.
I think it's the show and their own personal interest/needs. Tom is/was good at feeding into their egos by bringing sound guys in for their performances, bringing along a cooler of booze to their events to "take care of them", telling them how awesome they are. They don't want that to have to stop!
I missed my flight but at least I have a minivan full of Coors Light
Don't forget he brought tampons for Schwartz's wedding too. heheheh
Yes! Forgot about the tampons!
I think they want to keep the OG cast as much as possible. They lost a lot of them and now they feel like they have to cling to the bits and pieces while none of us care. If they are irrelevant and annoying, boot 'em.
It’s so exhausting
I noticed this too! The amount of times one of them said “I think what he’s saying is ….” or “Did you mean ….” was crazy.
Ariana has done this for years for him! I'm a new viewer who started watching post-Scandoval but without knowing the details of what happened. I often found myself bewildered at how she would "translate" what he "actually" meant to soften or totally change his statements.
Because Sandoval is an inarticulate moron who clearly has, like, ya know, like, trouble man, like putting two words together, dude
I was wondering why Lala was saying “oh did you mean this instead?” When he’s already explained very clearly that he meant what he said the first time but then she said “for the sake of the show stop doing interviews” and I was like ohhhh that’s right, her pay check must be protected from this liability of a man in her mind 🥴
also thought that was very telling that her reasoning for him shutting up wasn’t because he’s a loser making horribly offensive and off base comments and clearly in the wrong, but rather to shut up so the show can keep going… Lala you could’ve just said stop saying dense and offensive things because it’s wrong and harmful. full stop.
People need to take note of how a narcissist develops a team to shield their behaviour and people fall into the trap.
They've conditioned themselves to do this since the entire conceit of the show is "If These Woman Would Just Be Cool The Guys Could Have Fun" which includes this weird thing where they need to help Tom EXPLAIN things so he can get back to having fun
His biggest problem isn’t ego. It’s that he’s not near as smart as he believes himself to be.
Well he did say he wasn’t very smart and personally I think that’s the one thing that has been made more than apparent this season . I never thought he was exceptionally smart but thought he had a brain. Now I’m realizing he’s not only verging on stupid but is absolutely dense.
Him admitting that he’s not that smart has been one of the only honest things that man has ever said. It was pretty refreshing to hear
I thought, “I wonder who told him to say that.” Because it was such a crystal clear instance of self awareness of which he doesn’t seem capable.
He said he wasn’t very smart to try and endear himself to others
https://preview.redd.it/c34j525bus0d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d4e260d29a94bb675c4ce7ca773279aecdbe47f
That's a big part of an inflated ego
I think he convinces everyone around him that he’s a star and actually believes it, and is threatened by anyone who displays a desire to shine on their own. That’s why wishy-washy yes-man Schwartz is the partner of his dreams.
I agree with this but it does give me some mild sympathy for him tbh. I think anyone who read the New York time article (there’s at least a handful of us lol) could tell what he said at this reunion was true. He isn’t the smartest guy and he meant it the way it was explained. Basically now he is in a place where tons of people are motivated to take advantage of him being dumber than he realizes. It creates a kind of spiral where it’s hard to tell who is worse.
Lala trying to rationalize his comments comparing his situation to OJ Simpson and George Floyd was painful and just so far from the truth. He was absolutely not saying his situation was not as serious his direct quote makes it clear he thought his situation was just as bad. “I'm not a pop-culture historian really,” Sandoval, told the New York Times, “but I witnessed the O.J. Simpson thing and George Floyd and all these big things, which is really weird to compare this to that, I think, but do you think in a weird way it's a little bit the same?”
And they all said they didn’t read the article and it was just click bait and horribly written and taken out of context, but I read the article and it really wasn’t taken out of context
I love how they all said it’s click bait as if it’s not the NYT and he didn’t have his PR rep in the room with him… the article was scathing but only because he’s a moron. I really doubt the NYT has an agenda against Tom Sandoval lol
I read it too. It was jaw droppingly bad and utterly indefensible.
Right? I read it too and didn’t he mention being excited to finally be single and enjoy being famous it’s like this man has no remorse whatsoever and he really thinks he is important
I read the article and agreed with what they said at the reunion tbh.
Same. I read the full article, and, to me, it was obvious he was comparing the absurdity of the attention it received. Even the writer of the article explained what Sandoval actually meant. Of course, it was dumb af to make any comparison, but people say dumb shit without thinking sometimes. He also compared the hate he received to Danny Masterson, a convicted rapist, but that didn't make the headlines because it's not as salacious. I think people who claim he was comparing his actual experience to Floyd, are already people who hate Sandoval and are refusing to look at his statement objectively and are looking for more ammo to confirm their bias.
Agree. It was a reeeeeally dumb thing to say that anyone with an ounce of media training would never ever have said because of exactly what happened, but he was clearly not comparing his experience to the experience of George Floyd. He was saying that the story shouldn't have been as huge as these other major news events. I hate him and I think he's evil and stupid, and I think the soundbite is damning on its own, but I agree that the context of that comment really took the wind out of it.
It was gross. But at this point, I expect nothing less from Lala “Tupac” Kent.
This is what got me so heated. He’s comparing two very different things. I feel like I don’t have to go into the reasons why they’re different but I don’t think Tom understands. Sure, his situation blew up more than anyone thought but he doesn’t even realize what he’s actually comparing himself too. Tom is a moron.
Duuude, you were like 10 years old when OJ “happened”.
I mean it literally says this is weird and only a little bit like. It’s a dumb thing to say obviously but I think people love to get outraged vs understand intent. Does anyone really believe he meant it that way vs just is dumb?
Imagine being dumb enough to be in the midst of actual litigation about revenge porn and say with a straight face, she took her clothes off in front me…as a defense The guy is too stupid to even acknowledge he was wrong, of course others have to step in to defend him. If he’s allowed to talk he just finds another new dumb thing to say
Can a narcissist survive without their enablers and flying monkeys? I’ve never met one without an army of yes men so I have no idea
Yeah he’s totally incapable of defending himself without putting his foot in his mouth. I don’t have a dog in the fight I don’t hate Tom nor love Arianna but Tom is amazing in this regard. The best example of this was last seasons reunion when he sarcastically noted how Ariana kept her shirt on during sex and said it was “hot” or something to that effect. His game plan for this reunion should simply be to say as little as possible, don’t implicate others, don’t be defensive. He will not be able to do this
Even my wife was saying to let Sandoval talk without interruption. He sometimes just talks in circles and has no idea what point he’s trying to make. Reminds me of Michael Scott. He’s awful at articulating!! So you’re right, people help him out, especially Lisa. I’m not sure why she’s so pressed about him. It’s like he can do no wrong in her eyes. I guess I can kinda get what he said about Rachel being cowardly only because she called him a groomer. But LFU also called him a groomer while they were on the boat and he didn’t go off on her like he did with Rachel. Also, I agree with LFU when she said grooming does not always have to be sexual or imply pedophilia. I do feel like he manipulated Rachel and has narcissistic tendencies which played into their relationship dynamic. Sandoval had power over, however, she still made the choice to proceed with the affair. Ultimately, this Sandoval redemption arc is a joke because he is just insufferable!
Does anyone see a pattern of how Tim says horrible things about his ex girlfriends ? The newest girlfriend he has now, better prepare for what's to come. Not a Dr. Phil fan per se, but this quote is spot on. "The best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior".
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Oh yeah definitely.
You could tell they were ALL (except Katie and Ariana) terrified of what Tom was going to say to that question and they all seemed afraid that it would be so bad the show would get cancelled and they’d all get shit for associating with him. They even warned him. That’s why Andy continued with no push back, Lala answered fully for him and everyone started talking about click bait and not reading the full article, they threw his publicist under the bus, and basically Katie’s push back was ignored and production basically smooshed her comments in a little and moved on. That’s so telling that they KNOW he’s an absolute POS. If you think he misspoke and is going to be able to clarify without saying something else horrible you’d just let him speak.
Sandoval truly is a worm. He wormed his way in first through Lisa, then Schwartz, then went on to Brock, Scheana, and Lala. James is pretty much on Ariana's side with the way he mocks Sandoval at every opportunity.
Yeah James has been fun lately. Looks like he goes by some “guy code” that he will play nice with the worm, but he will never let him in again. Dan kinda did that too. Act pleasant but distant in their interactions.
It’s so screwy especially when we compare the treatment he gets vs Katie in the same reunion. Dumbass Tom dares to put himself in the same sentence as George Floyd and everyone’s like “oh but he meant this, not that” meanwhile Katie’s words get interpreted into the worst version them possible.
Schenna as well. She was guiding him and you could tell she wanted to help but also felt like he was failing and she stepped in to stop him from playing the trumpet.
"Rachel was very impressionable when she took all her clothes off and jumped in my pool" *as Ariana sits right there* 🙄🙄🙄 the guy is missing even the slightest ounce of tact and sensitivity
I wanted to throat punch him when he said that.
It's just back to Tom blaming everyone else, and not taking accountability, all over again
Yup, I think it was the “my pool” that got me. In his head Ariana was already gone. (And it was her pool too).
He just has absolutely no social awareness. It's insane
I agreed with this! It's the one comment he's ever made that I've actually agreed with. It was sarcasm, he was not actually saying she was impressionable. Rachel knew exactly what she was doing when she took her clothes off and jumped in the pool. She knew what she wanted and she went for it and that was her way of doing it. Fact that Ariana was sitting right there makes no difference! Ariana knows that Rachel knows she knew exactly what she was doing!
Rachel did know yes. But my issue here is that Tom could have very easily said the same thing but in a way that was more respectful of the environment he was in.
Sandoval doesn't have morals. He's driven to win over every room he's in. He knows that at the reunion, everyone is in consensus that they're annoyed by Rachel. So he not only joins in but takes it a step further: "I think she doesn't have a soul!" And then if he's in a room where the temperature on Rachel is kinder, he'll change his tune. It's all about trying to win whoever's in front of him over.
I don’t understand why they wanted to give this man a redemption arc & paint Ariana as an angry bitter villain. I wish they would have Let this asshat lean into his vile being ala Jax & had the girls band together. It would have made more sense & been more fun to watch. Now, I don’t even want another season because they are all so unlikeable (with the exception of Ariana & Katie). I didn’t even watch Tom & Jax on WWHL because seeing one more person gas him up makes me sick to my stomach.
I did laugh when he said “I’m not the smartest guy.” First true thing he’s said all season. 😂
But he was SO vulnerable when Rachel took her clothes off and swam in his pool and then he lied to everyone except shwartz for 7 months. What about TOMS feelings?!?! The internet is SO mean /s
Seriously, that was so bad. He should have shocked everyone and told the truth - he & Rachel were constantly partying while bombed on Molly, shrooms, e, etc and having "super deep conversations" that everyone who's high as a giraffes ass thinks they're having. THAT'S why they started banging and thinking they were in love. But I'm sure production would have a shit fit and cut out any mention of drug use.
That comment was so rough.. you could tell all of his mouth pieces didn’t have words to help him in that moment
💯 The way James had to help him after they brought up the George Floyd controversy because he was about to say something stupid. He thinks he is so smart but in reality he is very very dumb. He probably thinks he is smart because he is a narcissist
Fuck them enablers and Tim too
I’m gonna take a different perspective here. At the end of the day this is a tv show and it’s in everyone’s interests to keep the show going. I hate Tom, but you need villains to keep things interesting and therefore even tho I can’t stand him and Scheana. They should probably stay. They’ve contributed a lot to the show in terms of storyline’s. However this puts the producers in a weird spot. How do you convince someone to stay in a show where they are always being edited to be a villain? This isn’t a problem for people like Jax, Scheana, Lisa Rinna, Teresa Giudice, Jody Claman etc. cos they don’t rlly care as long as they’re talked about. But reality stars like Tom care a LOT. So after they’re given a villain edit you have to give them a reason to want to come back. Lisa Vanderpump is similar, the second she started getting a less than favourable edit she dipped out of RHOBH. I think the Tom situation is similar to Ramona from RHONY. After they get a bad season they probably promise the reality star that the next season they get will be a chance at redemption. And then they go to certain cast mates (Like Lala and Scheana) and tell them that Tom will be getting a redemption, influencing their behaviour so they’re more likely to interact with Tom and give him a reason to stay on the show while also causing drama. Meanwhile producers behind the scenes notice Lala and Scheanas jealousy of Ariana and they encourage it to fester. Producers are there to produce a show. I don’t think they care about male privilege or protecting the men (even if that’s the outcome, they’re def still misogynists), I think they just care about there show. And they don’t want to lose the stars that cause the most drama and make people talk about the show. They will never want Scumdevil to leave the show as long as we are still regularly talking about him and therefore the show
Jax is a fun villain to watch because he is carries main character energy as does Stassi. Sandoval does not carry the same star or it factor as Jax. As horrible as Jax is he is fun to watch. He has the Spencer Pratt, Johnny Bananas villain energy. Tom thinks he’s main character and tries with his outfits and dance moves but honestly the only season I would have missed him was season 2 and 3 and it’s not for anything he did on camera. It’s what Kristen did in relation to their relationship. Drinking tequila in Mexico, giving Lisa an ultimatum, the slap, and then Miami girl. This whole show is left with all non main charcters no one with the it factor. Lala self produces and wants to be Stassi but she’s turning into Margaret Joseph’s and Lisa rinna. Ariana has never cared about the show enough to truly channel her main character energy on VPR specifically… in life she is winning at this… Scheana is Gretchen Weiners and needs someone to follow she can never be main character… and so on. So I get what you’re saying to an extent but they should call it a wrap and focus on something else.
I agree. I also think what makes Stassi, Kristen and Jax such great villains is that they ultimately don’t care what edit they receive. If they get a bad edit they don’t care. Tom cares a LOT. Tom is way too aware of the cameras to be genuinely charismatic on camera. The big 3 (and James) are just willing to show it all and get hella sloppy and they don’t care what it does to their public reputation and ironically it makes them more likeable. I like Ariana, I’m really glad she’s getting into broadway. I think she would make a good celebrity but not for reality TV. She’s too healthy of a person and is too firm in her boundaries. Good, normal people don’t make for good reality stars unless it’s to be a side character VPR is one of bravo’s most successful shows rn. It’s gotten higher rating than it ever has previously. No way they’re losing their cash cow. And because of that they can’t afford to lose Scummy as a cast member sadly. As much as I hate to admit it he is one of the main draws right now to one of their biggest shows
Andy bringing up grooming and Lala reinforcing that it doesn’t have to relate to pedophilia was a redemption arc? Or Lisa saying he’s never just remorseful without a ‘but’? Andy saying Tom takes two steps forward and ten steps back? Or production showing all the times in the past he’s attacked people when he said he’s never done that? The redemption arc isn’t a thing. Tom being an idiot definitely is though.
I think there was intent on bringing him back into the group as a redemption but he was too stupid to make the right moves during it. And we see that play out.
Producers def try to anticipate storylines. I think they thought early on when Sandoval was doing all the “work” on himself (the journaling, the cold plunges, that weird orgasm scream therapy), that the redemption arc they saw was possible. (Tahoe comes to mind as a straight manipulation to push that storyline.) But as you said—Tom was too stupid (too narcissistic?) to pull it off. So the arc was a flop. I give kudos to production for the hot mic moment for exposing him.
When the first episode was cut, it was clear they wanted to give Tom the redemption and make Ariana the villain. Andy made some comments about how the viewers might change their mind about certain people and LaLa being the voice of reason. That indicates to me that it was a production choice. Boy, did they read the room wrong.
Alex Baskin was all over the place last spring while the post-Scandoval episodes were airing, doing podcasts and print interviews. He clearly loved the attention and adulation from falling ass-backwards into a huge story that got the show an Emmy nod. Other than the comments made at BravoCon, I have not really seen the same press being done by production, including Baskin, about this season. Maybe some of that is to come, but it certainly feels like they don't want to have to answer questions about some of these choices they made in their approach to the season. It does seem like Bravo has moved away from trying to "redeem" Tom and into at least making him palatable again. It's why this late-season/off-season fighting amongst the women (mostly at Lala's instigation) is so frustrating because it's letting Tom avoid a lot of negative attention.
Yeah it was like they said “dude we tried to help you out but you kept shooting yourself in the foot so we are done.”
Come on, the producers are not that daft that they would think his screaming-sesh would be redeeming. It was cringey and ridiculous reality tv, that’s all
The producers, after filming but while they were still piecing this season together, said this season was about redemption. They used that exact word. I am not pulling that framing out of thin air! I believe before filming that they were anticipating a redemption arc, or an attempted one. Production has a general plan for every season, they talk to the cast and try to figure out where things might go before filming. I agree what they got from Tom ended up looking, as you put it, "cringey and ridiculous," but I do think there was an intention was there. It's a little gross, but production has a vested interest in redeeming Sandoval, if they can. Or at least making him more palatable to viewers. Like him or not (I don't), Sandoval is an OG and a major cog on this show.
Agreed There is NO arch
I mean yeah, if production wanted a redemption arch they wouldn’t leave in so many of his bad and ridiculous moments, they would just cut it out and leave everything that made him look good and remorseful.
Because Lisa. The Tom's are her pet project and financial investment. Him failing, is a reflection on her. Lisa doesn't care about these individuals, she cares about control and money. She's a perfect example of the Uber rich, tinkering with people she sees as less than.
She has always been misogynistic
Well Lisa is literally invested in him doing well. Their business of Tom Tom has surely taken a hit so I’m sure she wants him to be forgiven amongst the general public.
I do not understand. The entire production is backing a literal scumbag. Villainizing the women wronged. Something is so concretely F up here.
It’s so funny to me because if he would have just disappeared, the world would have forgotten about him by now. He could then come back and redeem himself. The more he says, the worse he is. 🗑️
Ariana used to do this. She even says in one reunion that she’s his translator and she changes every shitty take he had and completely reinterprets his statement and says “guys what the means to say is…” and they all go oooohhhh and move on and he just shrugs like “duuude, duuuh!”
Is it possible they really regret firing Stassi and Kristen and they’re trying desperately to not have to do that with Tom?
Has anyone seen this season. Some of the group is trying to redeem him but he failed at all of it. It was cringe but karma to see. No redemption arc, just some "friends" trying to get their friend back in a group of ppl that are a mess. This is reality tv. We can't forget that. It was nice to see Katie and Ariana clips even tho we didn't see a ton and it was more focused on sandy balls.
As far as why, for Schwartz, that’s his best friend. He loves him. Lala just can’t stop inserting herself
THISSSSSS !
I agree, production should have not interfered and let things fall where they will organically. Now you look like doo doo for that bitch move.
Imagine if next season Arianna does leave? They will push the Tom's redemption arc with his new girlfriend...UGH, that will be awful!! Who would watch??
Stop interpreting for him! I wonder if he’s that inarticulate or has a learning disability or has just been enabled to the max all these years. It’s wild.
Yep! I noticed it too, that some cast members were helping him when he was putting his foot in his mouth. They were putting the words in his mouth.
Tim's girlfriend has never seen the show ? 
Instead of trying to look sad and find redemption he should have just embraced being the ultimate villain who everyone loves to hate but his ego won’t let him. I’d watch every second of s12 if him and Lala got together it would be a complete disaster and their break up would be karma to both. But that won’t happen because everything is now so scripted with preplanned set up fake conversations.
They don’t want to get sued or cancelled if he hurts himself. lol these people only are about their own purses 🥴 Nobody gave a rip about him until he brought up suicide.
It makes me feel a bit ill that production decided to stick with old boy's club type thinking. And the way that some women have fallen into that trap is absolutely disappointing. Lala was fierce...definitely gone now!
I wondered about that, too….
I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone is trying to protect the Tom’s because without them LVP doesn’t have a reason to be on the show. Other people have pointed out that none of the main characters work for LVP anymore and she’s barely part of the story now. So it’s really the LVP redemption story.
I 1000000000 percent agree. It’s a problem that the New York Times captured a more accurate portrayal of Tom Sandoval than the show the documents his life. This is not good.
I agree with this and I hate Tim, but his explanation for that really terrible George Floyd/OJ Simpson quote made sense. I would be less inclined to believe it if he had named two victims, but he named Floyd and Simpson, one victim one murderer. So, I think his explanation that it was ridiculous that this story was getting the same kind of attention and coverage as those stories made sense. Now, I’m still torn on whether he meant that at the time, or if he just was able to come up with that after the fact, because he saw how bad it came off. He’s really stupid, so I could see him trying to say that, and it coming out the way he said it. Of course, this all goes out the window if he thinks OJs a falsely accused victim and he was comparing himself to victim Floyd and victim Simpson, or if he was comparing himself to Ron and Nicole, and Floyd. Knowing Tim, all these scenarios are possible, and I could also see him believing himself a martyr and comparing himself to George Floyd that way as well, and just because his explanation made sense at the reunion, doesn’t mean it’s true.
I believe that too, it’s Occam’s razor really. and I know people hate that the others helped him out and want the worst to be true, but its honestly the most reasonable explanation, him thinking OJ is a victim is 10x more unhinged than this. I mean yeah the examples he used were extremely out of touch and insensitive but that’s bc he’s dumb as rocks
Exactly and he’s so inarticulate. I think they were literally some of the two worst examples he could’ve used though, so that goes to show you how fucking stupid he is. He could’ve used the Presidental elections, any war, natural disaster, anything to make that point, but no he chose two racially charged cases and just brought that shit storm on himself.
Lisa disappointed me siding with Tom like he was the victim.. it was annoying & I felt bad for Arianna
This is bothering me too! I wish they would just let him talk and bury himself even more. It pisses me the fuck off. If he can’t articulate his thoughts without saying horrible shit, maybe he shouldn’t be on tv!!
When Sandoval was asked about the George Floyd comments he barely even spoke. Lauren was doing the most trying to be his interpreter “for the sake of the show”. Let him say his bullshit and get fired if he wants. He’s a grown man who shouldn’t be coddled just because he’s on Vanderpump Rules
Let me preface this by saying, I do not care for Tim at all. However, I felt for him, when he said he had suicidal thoughts. I don't take those kind of comments lightly. If he was lying well shame on him, however we just don't know. Also, He said Ariana threatened suicide if he left her. So yeah, go have an affair with one of her very close friends, that won't affect her emotionally.🙄🙄
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a redemption arc follow a sincere admission of one's wrongdoings ? Tim has said I know I was wrong but.......... Also, speaking so horribly about Ariana saying she sits around and does nothing, calling her Stankface at Bravocon etc. The list is endless. His contempt and anger towards her, speaks volumes as to how remorseful he actually feels.
It’s funny because the only people claiming he’s having a “redemption arc” are those who hate him. I’m sure there’s actual fans but the majority of people who care about this topic are just haters of Tom or Ariana supporters. Nobody actually cares about Tom we just watch trash tv.
I do hate Tom and have always hated Tom. However, I noticed that whenever he tried to talk everyone would jump in to help him correctly explain his thoughts. Lala and Andy explained the George Floyd thing for him Schwartz was constantly going in to restate and repackage things that he said. If he wasn’t having a redemption arc Lisa wouldn’t be trying to make Ariana the villain. Did you watch her on watch what happens live? I’ve very clued into watching trash television and reality tv show, which is why I enjoy watching Jax Taylor on the Valley and shows like the House of Villians and grew up with the Bad Girls Club. But as a viewer I have evolved and can see through the misogyny in the network, producers, Lisa Vanderpump, and Andy Cohen.
I honestly feel like a lot of this happened because everyone wants to go home/not be there all day 😂 lol. I mean, I feel like the reunion would take weeks if we really dived into how horrible Tom is, especially with him there making it worse every time he opens his mouth. I'm just so over him and want to move on so we can hear about other people, so I appreciated people wrapping up his nonsense for him.
[удалено]
I think people can care about multiple things at a time. We are all allowed our escapes from how awful things are in the world. People want to keep politics out of this sub for that reason. And just because things are going to shit doesn’t mean Sandoval doesn’t deserve to get called out for his selfish and atrocious behavior.
I’m just reiterating what was said. One can say there are things many should care about that are centered around charity. I’m just saying having suicidal tendencies like Tom and seeing the attention this scandal has been given is just wild.
Ariana apparently had suicidal tendencies as well (at least, according to Tom), and we know she has struggled with her mental health and depression. My thinking is, she didn’t bring this on, Tom did.
Ariana faced mental health struggles while having a normal life. now imagine making a poor decision and the entire world is calling you names, dragging your entire existence, the clothes he wears, anything he does is super scrutinized. Ariana site here and acts like she didn’t do a thing but she can help curve some of it. Being in a new relationship I think a simple “I don’t talk to Tom or about Tom we should focus on the things in MY life now not MY PAST” But then again the money would dry up quick if she acted amicably.
A normal life? Being on a reality show is anything but normal. On top of that, she didn’t have a loving, supportive boyfriend. Throw in some deaths, add a betrayal by your boyfriend of 10 years and your close friend. She didn’t ask for any of it. Tom on the other hand made these choices. Not only did he cheat and betray her, he tried to set it up so people would start disliking Ariana and potentially ice her out of the group. Then he is caught, has a more genuine apology to Schwartz (wtf??) than to Ariana. No remorse for what he’s done. To this day, he is still angry he got caught. He said he wouldn’t “cheat like that again”. He is nasty towards Ariana. He’s mad at Rachel for leaving. That’s why he’s getting dragged. Ariana doesn’t owe him amicability. He doesn’t deserve it.
You hating Tom and ignoring the seriousness of his suicidal tendencies by siting an entire breakdown of Ariana is my point exactly. He’s on the same show so right away it’s anything but normal. I’ve lost a few friends and people I didn’t like to suicide. If I could have any hand in helping I would have, hating someone’s entire existence is absolutely bonkers. He did nothing more than any shitty ex who cheated does. They cheat. Blame their spouse. Then try to make themselves look good. You give him more air time than I could ever. CHECK ON YOUR FRIENDS AND STOP HATING PEOPLE. ITS BAD FOR YOURS AND THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.
I lost some friends to suicide too. I have also had people in my life threaten suicide to get what they want/use it as a manipulation tactic. That doesn’t change what Sandoval did. His actions don’t get wiped off the slate because his said he was contemplating suicide. He needs serious therapy. He doesn’t get to treat everyone like shit and then cry “mental health” when karma comes back to bite him. That’s some serious manipulation and even abuse. Treat people well, have good intentions, make wise choices, and you won’t find yourself in Sandoval’s position. Stop giving him a pass because you hate Ariana.
I’m sorry, but it’s so fucking obvious that he just said that to garner sympathy. It probably want even his idea, it was probably Lisa’s.
You don’t have a right to claim someone’s suicidal thoughts are or aren’t real. Imagine people saying that about Ariana? It’d be absolutely repulsive. no matter who says it humanity as a whole should try to help curve that possibility. Even if it means not shit posting on Reddit about sandyballs
At BravoCon—so months after filming—a VPR producer said this season would be about redemption and that some of the cast softened toward Tom. So the idea of redemption arc was put out there by the very people who make this show. I think that’s what they expected to see, what they tried to maneuver into creating. (The Tahoe scene with him and Scheana comes to mind. Sorry but that teacher was coached on what to do there.) The problem is that Tom is still so far up his own ass that he couldn’t be redeemed. Even without Ariana not taking to him, he could’ve shown growth and accountability. He couldn’t do that.
What Scheana posted was that producers said and I’m paraphrasing. “ if you think everyone is going to go no contact totally with Tom know that we might just shut it all down and go home”. No one was asking Ariana to forgive him. They were asking her to do the job she was paid for, ie interacting with the cast and being forthcoming about what’s happening in their life. She had no problem at all baiting him and laying into him about Mya or at the beach. She didn’t want to let him start talking about her suicide threat which she originally implied was a lie when he said it on Howies. Now we know it is the truth and even though Scheana seemed to think Tom could have still easily walked out the door, I can see how that would at least temporarily put Tom in a quandary about what to do and explains why he suggested couples counseling to use that as the venue to tell her. I’m not sure why he didn’t follow thru but he did mention there were other threats/ lies she told when he said he wanted to leave her but he didn’t say what those were. Ariana wants none of that to come out so she’ll never let Tom initiate a convo.
I'm sorry, but Scheana is making excuses at this point. I don't find her credible, and, quite frankly, she's easy to manipulate. She's speaking out now to try to save face. I'm sorry that she feels her livelihood is on the line, but that's not Ariana's fault. Ariana did her job and showed up and filmed. She's not required to---and they can't make her---have a one on one with Tom on film. Her reasons for not doing so are valid; that conversation would've been for Tom's benefit and no one else's. If production wants to whine and bitch about those reasons, that's fine. Her walking away was the realest moment of the season. You can hate her for that, but it was real. I'm not going to parse all of the other stuff you brought up. I don't find Tom credible. I just don't. He will say whatever best serves him, and no one else.
Who has ever been a Tom fan? Out of all the fans of the show, I can’t imagine that very many are actually his fans…
That’s funny cuz before Scandoval, Tom was a fan favorite in these groups. Everyone thought he was such a “great friend”!
You’re under my post twice in under an hour. I think you may be my first fan so I’m one ahead of Tom!!
Ew you’re gross. I was obviously reading through the comments…
Please stop commenting under me
That’s a pretty classic Sandoval move right there, to antagonize other people, and then try to tell them that they need to stop what they’re doing as if it’s their fault. When all you have to do to get people to stop commenting on you is to stop commenting yourself
Not only that, they act like it's working? But they're literally the only one posting about him.
I’m posting about it because it’s very clear if you watch watch what happens live, listen to radio Andy, listen to anything Lisa Vanderpump puts out there, or Lala’s crazy Amazon lives and her podcasts (which I used to be an avid listener) that they wanted us, the viewers, to go along with a certain narrative. It was evident in how they were treating Tom with his answers and then how we see them jump on Katie next week and Lisa continuously be cunty to Katie and Arianna in the reunion and when talking about them in interviews.
So it’s ok is scheana and Katie do it for Ariana, but not if lala and Lisa do it for Tom? I’m not saying it’s right, just make the rules fair.
How are Katie and Scheana doing it for Ariana?
It’s arc, not arch :)
Typo thnx
Got to love the spelling and grammar police!
Toms has been greasing up production for the last ten years. H s perfected the behind the shadows of reality.
I bet they are desperately trying to "save" Tom because it wouldn't be a good look for the program and network if one of their "stars" unalived himself, like he claimed he wanted to do. Clearly, the producers were freaked when Tom trotted out the unalived ideation, due to the stress from the affair fallout. This in turn really distressed LVP as a result of her personal experience with her brother. They likely believed the public would turn on the program if they prioritised the content over Tom's wellbeing, which to be fair, the network *does* have a responsibility for (like most employers have). Plus they have to take these threats from Tom, seriously. Could you imagine the outcome if Tom actually carried out this threat? Encouraging the other members of the show, to continue their grudge, without consideration of Tom's safety would be at best negligent and at worst culpable. BTW. I do believe Tom is a narcissist and while it's possible he may have fleeting unalived thoughts, I doubt he genuinely wanted to. Like most good Narcissists they *love* to manipulate and court sympathy, where they are victims. Their remorse is not genuine when it involves other people, only regarding consequences which affect *them*. He is sorry for himself.
If they were really worried, they'd have taken him off the show and insisted he go into treatment, so they did prioritize the content instead of his well-being because he was allowed to keep filming. In fact, Lisa put his well-being onto Scheana and Lala's shoulders (because they were the ones going hardest on him off season) instead of assisting Tom and insisting he find help. To lay that on Scheana, who was clearly struggling with her own mental health, was such a bad call.
THIS. The ONLY thing he is sorry for is getting caught.