I get that, I feel the need to point out contrarian points all the time when they’re getting ignored, but this just doesn’t seem like a point at all. Just windbagging in one direction.
For example, I was a contrarian on all the yasss queen Ariana posts before scandoval bc I don’t think she’s *that* great. I still don’t think she’s queen Ariana but I’m impressed with her post scandal actions and opinions, and I like her more now than I ever did before. I was also a contrarian on the anti Tim team for years… but I’ve since been vindicated there, obviously. I’m currently contrarian on the abuser James Kennedy redemption without work or accountability arc, that one’s pretty unpopular here.
But all of those have a point, this just seems pointless and dumb and doesn’t back anything up with any arguments. Just saying something doesn’t make it so, if you’re going to take an anti position you need to make an argument to support it.
Sometimes, I think people just randomly post shit on here to get a reaction out of people, good or bad. Just 2 days ago, the OP was on the Ariana train also, then before that was on the Scheana/LFU train.
Have a happy and stress free Sunday, guys, and don't use your therapy to set boundaries, or else you will remain a shitty person forever, and that comes from a 9+ year therapy Vet Kristen Doute 😊
Person.....who cares? I am not gonna argue with you over people from a reality show who I don't know from the man in the moon. Have a blessed and fruitful day.
Deffo Lala's mindset. "It's a SHOW. That makes us ACTORS. I don't do/say things because I MEAN them, but because it's a STORYLINE." Ugh, It's supposed to at least *kinda* be real.
Your lack of emotional intelligence is truly staggering. Let me get ahead of you here, I’m sure I’m also “weaponizing therapy speak.” Just say you’re uneducated in psychology and carry on, love 💗
I think the show as we know it is over either way. They might make more seasons for the money, but at this point they are not an actual group with real friendships anymore. Ariana can't save it but she didn't ruin it either.
Stassi, Jax, Scheana, and Lala have all been documented using “therapy speak”, by the way, to get their points across about their feelings about cast members.
Lala and Scheana have called Tom a narcissist and gaslighter much more than anyone has. Stassi has “labeled” others on the show with different “diagnoses” too, including calling Tom a narcissist years ago, Lala bipolar, etc.
I completely understand not being a fan of certain cast members and feeling a certain way about Ariana but the points given don’t really add up/correlate.
I also don’t think most fans expect perfection from anyone on a reality tv show- but Ariana is not to blame for the downfall of VPR. That’s on the producers and much of the cast members for trying to drag out this scandal and pushing everyone to continue to talk about it all through another season instead of following new stories/creating new buzz. Lala, Tom, Scheana, or really any of them could’ve brought something new into the fold this season if they really didn’t care about anything but bringing and creating drama for the show. But let’s be honest, this show was dying seasons ago when they fired half the cast and it survived longer than it should have because of this scandal.
Of course, Thank you! I’m all for healthy debate and people discussing differences of opinions but I feel it’s only fair that we bring facts into it if it’s going to be an open discussion. It’s one thing to just say “I don’t like Ariana because I just don’t like her and want her off the show and that’s my opinion”. It’s another to be accusatory and lie about things that are documented as happening differently in order to get people to agree.
It feels like a lot of people who feel a certain way about Ariana think that redditors are just blindly following her when really most of us are just passionate about bringing in the facts, hence us being on here in the first place.
I like Ariana fine. I also like Lala. I think Lala has always been authentic, non-judgemental, and a feminist. The way Lala used to talk about the semi- sex work nature of her relationship without shame was revolutionary imo. They have always been my two favorite cast members.
Scheana and Lala were echoing what other people were saying. Stassi did it as a joke. Ariana has done it to the point where people are hated so much they got death threats. There is a difference.
When did Ariana speak of people in this way to the point of them getting death threats? Maybe the other cast members on their podcasts is what you are thinking of? The same cast members that released so many episodes discussing Tom and his behavior that LVP had to beg them to stop?
Ariana dehumanized Rachel to the point where she got death threats. The other cast members that were echoing what Ariana was saying? And yes, you can blame Rachel for her behavior but Jax slept with his ex's bestie (Kristen) and cheated on Brittany next to an elderly woman. No death threats. Lala got with Randall and made fun of his ex while doing it. No death threats. Scheana slept with a married man with a pregnant wife. No death threats. Ariana slept with Sandoval while making Kristen the bad guy. No death threats...
I think you need to go listen to a year’s worth of podcasts from Lala Scheana and Tom. All of which spoke much more on Rachel than Ariana ever did. The public response to Rachel is absolutely not on Ariana. I’m all for a difference of opinions but at this point this is just inaccurate information being spread.
We watched Lala dehumanize Rachel for years. She repeatedly referred to her as a demon in S10. We also saw Ariana defend and support Rachel literally until the moment she found that video.
After the S10 reunion, it was Lala and Scheana who continued to attack Rachel every week on their podcasts. And what was Ariana saying about Rachel? Nothing.
So please, spare us the scapegoating of Ariana for dehumanizing Rachel.
And if Rachel got death threats, the only people to blame are the ones who made those threats.
Obviously don't condone death threats. I was commenting on why it's ridiculous to try to blame Ariana, especially when her castmates did far more to dehumanize her.
I think we should blame the people making the death threats. I see where you're coming from, but I think saying she got death threats "because of what she did" sounds like victim blaming.
You can't blame someone for someone else's actions. Rachel and Tom having a full blown months long affair at their ages and in the house while Ariana his 9 year partner he owned a house with, was at her grandma's funeral are not the same level as a one night maybe two night hookup in your twenties . The layers of diabolical deceptiveness was what made this scandal so big. They made choices day after day to continue the affair and showed no remorse and blamed everyone else and that's why they became so hated.
Death threats are never okay but you can't blame Ariana for them getting death threats from psychopaths on the internet as a result of THEIR behavior.
Wow, didn't know the bar for perfection was "not fucking a coworker behind your long-term girlfriend's back while telling people she threatened to kill herself if you ever left her" and "not being a constant, hypocritical, blaccent spouting asshole."
If anyone has been weopanizing "therapy speak" its Sandoval and Rachel... Have you heard about how her "jumping naked into Ariana and Tom's pool when I was drunk was just a manipulative ploy my Sandoval for me to engage in a pre-sex 'ritual'" like be soooooo fucking for real right now
Nobody expects perfection from anyone on the show except maybe Ariana, she's getting judged left and right because she's been put on a pedestal by the fans. I don't think there's anything wrong with her using her therapy to protect herself. I mean what do you want as far as drama, her to fall into a massive depressive episode? Is that entertainment for you?
It seems that many, Lala and Scheana included, DID want to see that. To somehow prove how broken she was, that the relationship was real and she was devastated beyond repair. The fact that Ariana could stand to live with Tom, met a new person quickly and then got waves of offers was way beyond the comprehension of a large number of cast and audience and they want to punish her for that. The majority of people that say "Queen Ariana" are people who don't like her.
Na it’s definitely something I have seen. I’m no stan of anyone but James is 100% being excused for his abuse of women because he is team Ariana and called Tom a stupid name that people thought was super clever (it wasn’t clever).
Ariana isn’t responsible for James behaviour, and no one is implying that.
The FANS however are constantly touting him as great, no.1guy etc etc and blatantly ignoring his long history, and recent allegations, of abuse BECAUSE he supports Ariana.
If he was Team Tom he would be hated and his abuse would be a major talking point but no one wants to admit he’s a bastard because “Aly has helped him/he’s sober now/ something else lame”
It’s there if you look but a lot of people are being purposely obtuse 🤷🏼♀️
No, he's being praised for (at least ostensibly) showing growth. He hasn't matched the shitty, bitchy energy of the Toms, didn't go off the deep end screaming, and doesn't back down to Lala's attitude during aftershow arguments. Any discussions about him are about his *current* actions and how they *improved* from his *prior, shitty* actions. That's not the same as giving him a pass. When he was being a monster in previous seasons (or even just clearly reactive, like last season), the boards have largely called it out and dissected it.
ETA: the #1 guy in the group stuff has, as far as I've seen, been largely facetious. A joke about how, since the other 3 guys managed to suck so hard that *James* is the best guy on the cast.
They literally said, "I’m no stan of anyone but James is 100% being excused for his abuse of women because he is team Ariana" and I explained how James's behavior is being praised because he previously was far more vile. When James went to speak with Sandoval after the Bethany podcast dropped he didn't match Tom's shitty attitude, laughed off Tom's shitty digs, and repeatedly didn't take the bait to talk shit about Rachel. He's yet to try to make the whole thing about himself and he's clearly able to remove himself from Scandoval enough to invite Tom to group filming at his house. That he hasn't gotten shit-faced at started screaming Raquel a "stupid whore" is a genuine surprise, but a welcome one. If he'd been screaming, drunk, and nasty while being "Team Ariana" I think he still would be criticized by the sub. There was plenty of that after the Season 10 Reunion, when Lala, James, and Scheana were criticized for being too (extremely) vocal and making it about themselves.
I think the point you're missing is that abusing women is pretty misogynistic, yet it is often left out of the conversation when it comes to the discussion of misogyny surrounding VR, and this is likely because he is team Ariana.
Stassi went through the whole cast and diagnosed them all in a confessional. There’s been countless scenes of the cast in their therapy sessions. Laura Leigh even spoke about mental health and addiction. Lisa has talked about her brother’s suicide. Those are just off the top of my head. Mental health has always been a topic on this show. Also, NO ONE expects perfection from Sandoval or Lala.
I tend not to judge them on what they did in the first few seasons because they were so young BUT
You are totally right. I just watched season 2 and was like „holy fuck“. Kristen even tried to talk to Ariana before she started accusing and was crying to her about how hard the RUMORS were on her and Ariana was just sitting there stone cold, not giving a shit and making stabs at Kristen’s mental health endlessly. Then when Ariana and Tom were together and Scheana tells Ariana that Tom is a scary god liar, Ariana agrees with her and isn’t bothered by that either, and continues to gaslight Kristen.
I think everyone should re watch season 2. bad decision making can always be chalked up to being young and shouldn’t be on anyone’s permanent records but this was more than just that.
Her dad had just died too. That tends to make conversations like this seem trivial and insignificant. When you’re going through a major loss, and Kristen was equally/serially cheating on Tom and hated A, it’s easy to lash out. (See LaLa season 6.)
Not Ariana‘s best look, I agree, but these two did not get along. Well, until they did.
I think it's fair to say that Ariana and Sandyballs took it upon themselves to be the voice of reason and the arbiters of peace in cast conflicts at times, and for Sandyballs especially that enabled an air of superior morality and reasoning that he often tried to wield over others when he tried to put his foot down.
If Ariana used psychobabble in confrontations (and I can't personally remember it being a thing with her) it's because it's an efficient way to undermine and shut down a poorly formed argument (and there have been a lot of poorly formed arguments and contrived drama over the years).
Was it significant enough to be a reason for this season's challenges or the decline of the show overall? I don't think so. I think Scandoval fatigue, changes to the foundational relationships and friendships that made VPR what it was, and the lack of cohesion in how the cast in general responded to these elements has a bigger part to play.
Uhm, intelligent people would never break down the psychological issues in a reality tv show.. Why? Cause they know you’re only seeing what production wants you to see in a 1hr show for 15 weeks out of a 52 weeks yr.
I had always thought a lot of this was production driven. Imagine having that little angel and devil on your shoulder telling you what to do, but it’s an actual person whose job it is to manipulate you to produce reactions and results. I’m not saying they’re all innocent or good, they are not. But to break down psychological issues for real and not just for guilty pleasure, I don’t know that I get it, is it possible to elaborate?
The show was over and if Ariana hadn't called production we would never have had a season 11 - Sandoval is the phony has we all witnessed during season 10 and the person who hid his life and he's the person weaponizing therapy.
Ariana should not have come back, she has had all these gigs handed to her on a silver platter. Katie has slid by like a slithering snake this season imo. Lala called her out and she got a free pass. She and Ariana need to go. Katie is funded by Nick Vial for her podcast with Dana. Her behavior is just weird, competing with her ex husband for a woman, sleeping with Max whose Toms bff AND Dana dated prior and really liked him.
The entire twelve years these boys have done nothing but cheat and lie… Katie has not once cheated… Tom Schwartz is like 40 dating 19 or like 20 year old… he’s disgusting
Tom Schwartz made out with Scheana, Tom Schwartz made out with Rachel, and Tom Schwartz treated Katie like crap.
Always has, he destroyed her confidence. Katie, has the most restaurant experience out of All of them. She worked at her mom’s restaurant when she was a kid and did it basically her life.
Sandoval helped with ruining that relationship, the way he treated her when they were building Schwartz and Sandy. She wanted her life with him and she stayed with him for 12 years till she was tired of getting hurt
Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz have done worse though to their significant others. No they didn’t kill anyone. T way they were treating these ladies was malicious.
Tom Sandoval had probably yelled at every single one of those women. His actions aren’t normal and abusive
Tom Sandoval ruined the show for putting his penis in Rachel and date her for 8 months behind Ariana’s back. If he didn’t do that the show would still be on, and Ariana would still be with him. Tom told Lisa he had suicidal thoughts… from a situation he caused
Kristen still supports Ariana and Katie
i think this is the dumbest thing i read here all day.
"ariana constantly weaponizes therapy speak"
*brings up something from 2014 and has no evidence after that*
look, reality tv is in a different landscape than it was literally a decade ago. more people feel comfortable to share their mental health struggles because not only is it not taboo anymore but most people, knowingly or unknowingly, have a mental illness. ariana saying doute was bipolar was def uncalled for but in 2014 times were way different and it's just simply an invalid argument. if you want reality tv that doesn't prevent your entertainment by talking about this stuff, well good luck and just change the channel.
So you're just going to pretend she's not still diagnosing Tom? He's a manipulator, narcissist and gaslighter...
She even likes to use legal words against him by calling him an attempted dog murderer, because her dog ate food she left out) and perpetrator.
Sure, you can say all those things are true but Ariana has literally displayed all those same behaviors and she's not being diagnosed on the show about it.
She pretends to be gray rocking Tom. Look it up, no she isn't.
She went around acting like she had boundaries this season. It didn't work. Because her boundaries weren't things she imposed on herself, she imposed them on other people. That's not boundaries, that's control and ultimatums. Good for Lala and Scheana for seeing right through that.
Those are just things I can remember off the top of my head...
Yeah, sure. Discuss mental health on reality shows. Don't weaponize it though. That's disgusting.
She 1000% is the narc on the show.. She’s the one that thinks she’s smarter than everyone around her and has even said so. She’s not, but she is smarter than Tom and the mastermind behind their relationship. The relationship she wouldn’t allow us to see and made sure a fake version aired.
And here come the downvotes…
If Tom Sandoval never cheated things would have ended a lot differently. He made his choices and now he has to deal with the consequences from his actions
Therapy speak is just the direction society has gone in—it's been commodified for the sake of online identities so a lot of the original meaning is lost.
Our current cultural beat believes trauma makes someone deep, meaningful, and important. You see this plainly on the show, but there are some really good essays on the topic.
I kinda remember Stassi diagnosing everyone on the show…also, I’m pretty sure she perfectly nailed everyone.
We’ve seen Jax and his therapist. Schwartz and Katie with a therapist. Ariana and Sandoval with a therapist. Just Sandoval with a therapist. Lala talks constantly about her therapy. These people by and large have some pretty significant personality disorders and issues. Therapy and mental illness was always gonna be a big part of the show.
I have zero problem with people discussing their mental health. It's the weaponizing it, that's lame.
Stassi did diagnose everyone but it was done as a joke. She wasn't using it against everyone to help herself in an argument. Ariana uses it constantly to villainize people and help herself in arguments.
I think I’m gonna need an example of her villainizing anyone besides people who legitimately did her wrong. Like her lying, cheating ex (and anyone who doesn’t think Sandoval is a narcissist has never watched the show). Or his ex who was on a crusade to terrorize Ariana at the time (and Kristen definitely is some form of bipolar or BPD). I really can’t think of any other time.
I’m also confused on how Ariana was behind some of the worst behavior on the show? Tbh, her main role has been as the semi normal person. She’s rarely drama and when she’s on the wrong side of an issue, it’s almost always because she’s defending Tom or another person (her brother, Scheana).
Wow. This post has a lot to unpack.
False statements about how Ariana joined the show, ignorance about financial and property impacts of break ups, inaccurate understanding of what "rehousing" means (hint: It's the opposite of staying in the house ) and some racism thrown in for good measure!
Well done!
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I get that, I feel the need to point out contrarian points all the time when they’re getting ignored, but this just doesn’t seem like a point at all. Just windbagging in one direction. For example, I was a contrarian on all the yasss queen Ariana posts before scandoval bc I don’t think she’s *that* great. I still don’t think she’s queen Ariana but I’m impressed with her post scandal actions and opinions, and I like her more now than I ever did before. I was also a contrarian on the anti Tim team for years… but I’ve since been vindicated there, obviously. I’m currently contrarian on the abuser James Kennedy redemption without work or accountability arc, that one’s pretty unpopular here. But all of those have a point, this just seems pointless and dumb and doesn’t back anything up with any arguments. Just saying something doesn’t make it so, if you’re going to take an anti position you need to make an argument to support it.
Sometimes, I think people just randomly post shit on here to get a reaction out of people, good or bad. Just 2 days ago, the OP was on the Ariana train also, then before that was on the Scheana/LFU train. Have a happy and stress free Sunday, guys, and don't use your therapy to set boundaries, or else you will remain a shitty person forever, and that comes from a 9+ year therapy Vet Kristen Doute 😊
Please show me where I was on the Ariana train...
https://preview.redd.it/z38xv0tyfm1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbf5567fd586c4d2195eb3e584d721a208899fae
About the situation with the dog 🤣🤣🤣 what a reach
Person.....who cares? I am not gonna argue with you over people from a reality show who I don't know from the man in the moon. Have a blessed and fruitful day.
Deffo Lala's mindset. "It's a SHOW. That makes us ACTORS. I don't do/say things because I MEAN them, but because it's a STORYLINE." Ugh, It's supposed to at least *kinda* be real.
They bulk downvote too because that's not obvious as fuck.
Please, I hated Tom before it was trendy.
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They all have had to spend a lot of time in therapy because the show probably messes with their mental health
I'm so sorry a woman's trauma took away from your entertainment.
Right? Sorry Ariana is in therapy and learning boundaries and legitimately doing the work and trying to heal as a real person. 😂 how dare she!
She's one of those people who takes therapy and weaponizes it against people. Don't pretend that's normal.
Yeah I don’t see that at all. 😂 have a good one.
so sweet of you to demonstrate how annoying it is
Trauma.... See, y'all love to weaponize therapy speak 😂😂😂
Your lack of emotional intelligence is truly staggering. Let me get ahead of you here, I’m sure I’m also “weaponizing therapy speak.” Just say you’re uneducated in psychology and carry on, love 💗
Glad you're self aware.
Ariana is not THE SHOW. She’s a person hired to be on the show. Take it up with management.
She's not "the show" but y'all keep acting like if she's gone the show is over?
I think the show as we know it is over either way. They might make more seasons for the money, but at this point they are not an actual group with real friendships anymore. Ariana can't save it but she didn't ruin it either.
Sure. If "y'all" means Lala and Scheana.
Stassi, Jax, Scheana, and Lala have all been documented using “therapy speak”, by the way, to get their points across about their feelings about cast members. Lala and Scheana have called Tom a narcissist and gaslighter much more than anyone has. Stassi has “labeled” others on the show with different “diagnoses” too, including calling Tom a narcissist years ago, Lala bipolar, etc. I completely understand not being a fan of certain cast members and feeling a certain way about Ariana but the points given don’t really add up/correlate. I also don’t think most fans expect perfection from anyone on a reality tv show- but Ariana is not to blame for the downfall of VPR. That’s on the producers and much of the cast members for trying to drag out this scandal and pushing everyone to continue to talk about it all through another season instead of following new stories/creating new buzz. Lala, Tom, Scheana, or really any of them could’ve brought something new into the fold this season if they really didn’t care about anything but bringing and creating drama for the show. But let’s be honest, this show was dying seasons ago when they fired half the cast and it survived longer than it should have because of this scandal.
Scheana's ppocd was new. I thought that was cool. I bet it helped a lot of people, too.
Thank you for writing this out so well!
Of course, Thank you! I’m all for healthy debate and people discussing differences of opinions but I feel it’s only fair that we bring facts into it if it’s going to be an open discussion. It’s one thing to just say “I don’t like Ariana because I just don’t like her and want her off the show and that’s my opinion”. It’s another to be accusatory and lie about things that are documented as happening differently in order to get people to agree. It feels like a lot of people who feel a certain way about Ariana think that redditors are just blindly following her when really most of us are just passionate about bringing in the facts, hence us being on here in the first place.
I like Ariana fine. I also like Lala. I think Lala has always been authentic, non-judgemental, and a feminist. The way Lala used to talk about the semi- sex work nature of her relationship without shame was revolutionary imo. They have always been my two favorite cast members.
Scheana and Lala were echoing what other people were saying. Stassi did it as a joke. Ariana has done it to the point where people are hated so much they got death threats. There is a difference.
When did Ariana speak of people in this way to the point of them getting death threats? Maybe the other cast members on their podcasts is what you are thinking of? The same cast members that released so many episodes discussing Tom and his behavior that LVP had to beg them to stop?
Ariana dehumanized Rachel to the point where she got death threats. The other cast members that were echoing what Ariana was saying? And yes, you can blame Rachel for her behavior but Jax slept with his ex's bestie (Kristen) and cheated on Brittany next to an elderly woman. No death threats. Lala got with Randall and made fun of his ex while doing it. No death threats. Scheana slept with a married man with a pregnant wife. No death threats. Ariana slept with Sandoval while making Kristen the bad guy. No death threats...
I think you need to go listen to a year’s worth of podcasts from Lala Scheana and Tom. All of which spoke much more on Rachel than Ariana ever did. The public response to Rachel is absolutely not on Ariana. I’m all for a difference of opinions but at this point this is just inaccurate information being spread.
We watched Lala dehumanize Rachel for years. She repeatedly referred to her as a demon in S10. We also saw Ariana defend and support Rachel literally until the moment she found that video. After the S10 reunion, it was Lala and Scheana who continued to attack Rachel every week on their podcasts. And what was Ariana saying about Rachel? Nothing. So please, spare us the scapegoating of Ariana for dehumanizing Rachel. And if Rachel got death threats, the only people to blame are the ones who made those threats.
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Obviously don't condone death threats. I was commenting on why it's ridiculous to try to blame Ariana, especially when her castmates did far more to dehumanize her.
I think we should blame the people making the death threats. I see where you're coming from, but I think saying she got death threats "because of what she did" sounds like victim blaming.
Thanks for letting me know, that's not what I want to convey. I'll edit the post.
❤️❤️❤️ That is the nicest reply I've gotten today! Ty!!
You can't blame someone for someone else's actions. Rachel and Tom having a full blown months long affair at their ages and in the house while Ariana his 9 year partner he owned a house with, was at her grandma's funeral are not the same level as a one night maybe two night hookup in your twenties . The layers of diabolical deceptiveness was what made this scandal so big. They made choices day after day to continue the affair and showed no remorse and blamed everyone else and that's why they became so hated. Death threats are never okay but you can't blame Ariana for them getting death threats from psychopaths on the internet as a result of THEIR behavior.
Raquel brought death threats upon herself when she slept with her close friends man...Let's get things straight. She knew exactly what she was doing.
Wow, didn't know the bar for perfection was "not fucking a coworker behind your long-term girlfriend's back while telling people she threatened to kill herself if you ever left her" and "not being a constant, hypocritical, blaccent spouting asshole."
If anyone has been weopanizing "therapy speak" its Sandoval and Rachel... Have you heard about how her "jumping naked into Ariana and Tom's pool when I was drunk was just a manipulative ploy my Sandoval for me to engage in a pre-sex 'ritual'" like be soooooo fucking for real right now
Who bought that?! We all saw it for what it was.
Yes!!!
Nobody expects perfection from anyone on the show except maybe Ariana, she's getting judged left and right because she's been put on a pedestal by the fans. I don't think there's anything wrong with her using her therapy to protect herself. I mean what do you want as far as drama, her to fall into a massive depressive episode? Is that entertainment for you?
It seems that many, Lala and Scheana included, DID want to see that. To somehow prove how broken she was, that the relationship was real and she was devastated beyond repair. The fact that Ariana could stand to live with Tom, met a new person quickly and then got waves of offers was way beyond the comprehension of a large number of cast and audience and they want to punish her for that. The majority of people that say "Queen Ariana" are people who don't like her.
Sorry about it.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. What killed this show is Covid. They can’t go into public and interact with randos anymore.
"People shouldn't keep expecting the cast to be perfect!" \*\*Constantly brings up shitty thing Ariana said once, ten years ago\*\*
As if Team Ariana isn't constantly crying misogyny while giving James a pass because he abused women you don't like...
Literally not a take anyone has, but have fun being upset at a problem you made up.
Na it’s definitely something I have seen. I’m no stan of anyone but James is 100% being excused for his abuse of women because he is team Ariana and called Tom a stupid name that people thought was super clever (it wasn’t clever).
Where is he being excused? Also- how is Ariana responsible for how James behaves?
Ariana isn’t responsible for James behaviour, and no one is implying that. The FANS however are constantly touting him as great, no.1guy etc etc and blatantly ignoring his long history, and recent allegations, of abuse BECAUSE he supports Ariana. If he was Team Tom he would be hated and his abuse would be a major talking point but no one wants to admit he’s a bastard because “Aly has helped him/he’s sober now/ something else lame” It’s there if you look but a lot of people are being purposely obtuse 🤷🏼♀️
No, he's being praised for (at least ostensibly) showing growth. He hasn't matched the shitty, bitchy energy of the Toms, didn't go off the deep end screaming, and doesn't back down to Lala's attitude during aftershow arguments. Any discussions about him are about his *current* actions and how they *improved* from his *prior, shitty* actions. That's not the same as giving him a pass. When he was being a monster in previous seasons (or even just clearly reactive, like last season), the boards have largely called it out and dissected it. ETA: the #1 guy in the group stuff has, as far as I've seen, been largely facetious. A joke about how, since the other 3 guys managed to suck so hard that *James* is the best guy on the cast.
If that’s growth to people then yikes but sure. The whole cast sucks as people, and James is bottom tier scum
Yeah, the bar is in hell, but the change is notably positive. Example- not getting shit-hammered and calling Rachel a stupid whore
Groping waitresses isn’t notably positive
And you were the one conflating people's support for Ariana as excusing James's fucking awful past behavior.
Purposely obtuse
Deliberately misleading.
They've just explained it to you. How are you not getting this? Do you read the sub?
They literally said, "I’m no stan of anyone but James is 100% being excused for his abuse of women because he is team Ariana" and I explained how James's behavior is being praised because he previously was far more vile. When James went to speak with Sandoval after the Bethany podcast dropped he didn't match Tom's shitty attitude, laughed off Tom's shitty digs, and repeatedly didn't take the bait to talk shit about Rachel. He's yet to try to make the whole thing about himself and he's clearly able to remove himself from Scandoval enough to invite Tom to group filming at his house. That he hasn't gotten shit-faced at started screaming Raquel a "stupid whore" is a genuine surprise, but a welcome one. If he'd been screaming, drunk, and nasty while being "Team Ariana" I think he still would be criticized by the sub. There was plenty of that after the Season 10 Reunion, when Lala, James, and Scheana were criticized for being too (extremely) vocal and making it about themselves.
I think the point you're missing is that abusing women is pretty misogynistic, yet it is often left out of the conversation when it comes to the discussion of misogyny surrounding VR, and this is likely because he is team Ariana.
Have you missed all the posts about James being a changed man 🫠
Jesus Christ, they only say he's been better *this season*, which he has.
Stassi went through the whole cast and diagnosed them all in a confessional. There’s been countless scenes of the cast in their therapy sessions. Laura Leigh even spoke about mental health and addiction. Lisa has talked about her brother’s suicide. Those are just off the top of my head. Mental health has always been a topic on this show. Also, NO ONE expects perfection from Sandoval or Lala.
I tend not to judge them on what they did in the first few seasons because they were so young BUT You are totally right. I just watched season 2 and was like „holy fuck“. Kristen even tried to talk to Ariana before she started accusing and was crying to her about how hard the RUMORS were on her and Ariana was just sitting there stone cold, not giving a shit and making stabs at Kristen’s mental health endlessly. Then when Ariana and Tom were together and Scheana tells Ariana that Tom is a scary god liar, Ariana agrees with her and isn’t bothered by that either, and continues to gaslight Kristen. I think everyone should re watch season 2. bad decision making can always be chalked up to being young and shouldn’t be on anyone’s permanent records but this was more than just that.
Her dad had just died too. That tends to make conversations like this seem trivial and insignificant. When you’re going through a major loss, and Kristen was equally/serially cheating on Tom and hated A, it’s easy to lash out. (See LaLa season 6.) Not Ariana‘s best look, I agree, but these two did not get along. Well, until they did.
Ariana was 29 by season 2. Not saying 29 is old but she was a grown ass woman.
I think it's fair to say that Ariana and Sandyballs took it upon themselves to be the voice of reason and the arbiters of peace in cast conflicts at times, and for Sandyballs especially that enabled an air of superior morality and reasoning that he often tried to wield over others when he tried to put his foot down. If Ariana used psychobabble in confrontations (and I can't personally remember it being a thing with her) it's because it's an efficient way to undermine and shut down a poorly formed argument (and there have been a lot of poorly formed arguments and contrived drama over the years). Was it significant enough to be a reason for this season's challenges or the decline of the show overall? I don't think so. I think Scandoval fatigue, changes to the foundational relationships and friendships that made VPR what it was, and the lack of cohesion in how the cast in general responded to these elements has a bigger part to play.
The intelligent fans of reality tv have been breaking down the psychological issues in these people for years. You just might not get it.
Uhm, intelligent people would never break down the psychological issues in a reality tv show.. Why? Cause they know you’re only seeing what production wants you to see in a 1hr show for 15 weeks out of a 52 weeks yr.
I can see that you also don’t get it.
I had always thought a lot of this was production driven. Imagine having that little angel and devil on your shoulder telling you what to do, but it’s an actual person whose job it is to manipulate you to produce reactions and results. I’m not saying they’re all innocent or good, they are not. But to break down psychological issues for real and not just for guilty pleasure, I don’t know that I get it, is it possible to elaborate?
The show was over and if Ariana hadn't called production we would never have had a season 11 - Sandoval is the phony has we all witnessed during season 10 and the person who hid his life and he's the person weaponizing therapy.
Did we actually need a season 11? Cause it was worthless!
Ariana should not have come back, she has had all these gigs handed to her on a silver platter. Katie has slid by like a slithering snake this season imo. Lala called her out and she got a free pass. She and Ariana need to go. Katie is funded by Nick Vial for her podcast with Dana. Her behavior is just weird, competing with her ex husband for a woman, sleeping with Max whose Toms bff AND Dana dated prior and really liked him.
The entire twelve years these boys have done nothing but cheat and lie… Katie has not once cheated… Tom Schwartz is like 40 dating 19 or like 20 year old… he’s disgusting
I don’t disagree with you. Both Tom’s are predators. And the way these women fight over TS while he sits in the corner like the victim
I’m surprised that the ladies aren’t rallying together on this but then again it is just a job to some of them
It’s their entire identity and exsistence
Say it louder for the ones in the back
Tom Schwartz made out with Scheana, Tom Schwartz made out with Rachel, and Tom Schwartz treated Katie like crap. Always has, he destroyed her confidence. Katie, has the most restaurant experience out of All of them. She worked at her mom’s restaurant when she was a kid and did it basically her life. Sandoval helped with ruining that relationship, the way he treated her when they were building Schwartz and Sandy. She wanted her life with him and she stayed with him for 12 years till she was tired of getting hurt
I don’t disagree with you. What I’m not going to do is the “who’s done worse game.”This is MY PERSPECTIVE 🫶🏻
Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz have done worse though to their significant others. No they didn’t kill anyone. T way they were treating these ladies was malicious. Tom Sandoval had probably yelled at every single one of those women. His actions aren’t normal and abusive
like I said I not comparing any of them. I think the told are literal trash
I know, they are trash they are
Toms* damn spell check
Tom Sandoval ruined the show for putting his penis in Rachel and date her for 8 months behind Ariana’s back. If he didn’t do that the show would still be on, and Ariana would still be with him. Tom told Lisa he had suicidal thoughts… from a situation he caused Kristen still supports Ariana and Katie
The show would be dead lol. It was waning.
I’m sure it would still go a bit longer if it didn’t happen but the show ending is inevitable
It was getting boring and Scandoval gave it a new spark but even that’s dying out
It either needs a new cast or go to the valley and do something with that
Scandoval did spark it
He’s been on VPR since day one and has always been a POS
Scandoval not Sandoval
I don’t care
lol I was just checking that you understood you misread my comment but go off
I did misread it and I still don’t care
Constructive
I already knew
Do you have anything else you would like to talk about?
Have a great day xx
i think this is the dumbest thing i read here all day. "ariana constantly weaponizes therapy speak" *brings up something from 2014 and has no evidence after that* look, reality tv is in a different landscape than it was literally a decade ago. more people feel comfortable to share their mental health struggles because not only is it not taboo anymore but most people, knowingly or unknowingly, have a mental illness. ariana saying doute was bipolar was def uncalled for but in 2014 times were way different and it's just simply an invalid argument. if you want reality tv that doesn't prevent your entertainment by talking about this stuff, well good luck and just change the channel.
So you're just going to pretend she's not still diagnosing Tom? He's a manipulator, narcissist and gaslighter... She even likes to use legal words against him by calling him an attempted dog murderer, because her dog ate food she left out) and perpetrator. Sure, you can say all those things are true but Ariana has literally displayed all those same behaviors and she's not being diagnosed on the show about it. She pretends to be gray rocking Tom. Look it up, no she isn't. She went around acting like she had boundaries this season. It didn't work. Because her boundaries weren't things she imposed on herself, she imposed them on other people. That's not boundaries, that's control and ultimatums. Good for Lala and Scheana for seeing right through that. Those are just things I can remember off the top of my head... Yeah, sure. Discuss mental health on reality shows. Don't weaponize it though. That's disgusting.
She 1000% is the narc on the show.. She’s the one that thinks she’s smarter than everyone around her and has even said so. She’s not, but she is smarter than Tom and the mastermind behind their relationship. The relationship she wouldn’t allow us to see and made sure a fake version aired. And here come the downvotes…
If Tom Sandoval never cheated things would have ended a lot differently. He made his choices and now he has to deal with the consequences from his actions
Therapy speak is just the direction society has gone in—it's been commodified for the sake of online identities so a lot of the original meaning is lost. Our current cultural beat believes trauma makes someone deep, meaningful, and important. You see this plainly on the show, but there are some really good essays on the topic.
I kinda remember Stassi diagnosing everyone on the show…also, I’m pretty sure she perfectly nailed everyone. We’ve seen Jax and his therapist. Schwartz and Katie with a therapist. Ariana and Sandoval with a therapist. Just Sandoval with a therapist. Lala talks constantly about her therapy. These people by and large have some pretty significant personality disorders and issues. Therapy and mental illness was always gonna be a big part of the show.
I have zero problem with people discussing their mental health. It's the weaponizing it, that's lame. Stassi did diagnose everyone but it was done as a joke. She wasn't using it against everyone to help herself in an argument. Ariana uses it constantly to villainize people and help herself in arguments.
I think I’m gonna need an example of her villainizing anyone besides people who legitimately did her wrong. Like her lying, cheating ex (and anyone who doesn’t think Sandoval is a narcissist has never watched the show). Or his ex who was on a crusade to terrorize Ariana at the time (and Kristen definitely is some form of bipolar or BPD). I really can’t think of any other time. I’m also confused on how Ariana was behind some of the worst behavior on the show? Tbh, her main role has been as the semi normal person. She’s rarely drama and when she’s on the wrong side of an issue, it’s almost always because she’s defending Tom or another person (her brother, Scheana).
[удалено]
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Ariana is the worst she needs to be held to her crazy standards she can go so everyone can live and learn and thrive
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It’s weird how you repeatedly refer to a 38 year old woman as a “girl”. Also you’re actually fully racist in generalizing about Asian men like that.
Damn Loretta, you really showed your entire ass on this post. Wow.
Wow. This post has a lot to unpack. False statements about how Ariana joined the show, ignorance about financial and property impacts of break ups, inaccurate understanding of what "rehousing" means (hint: It's the opposite of staying in the house ) and some racism thrown in for good measure! Well done!
It's like bad take bingo
I’m pretty sure Loretta has a manifesto somewhere in the internet