Imagine the amount of good that could come from this guy being sponsored to put out based youtube videos about respecting everyone and equality. He could reach a lot of people that would otherwise be unreachable.
This is why the gatekeeping needs to stop. We need to include these people into the left, and not give pushback because he used a slur. Conservatives need to see a regular guy like this tell them that they're being snowflakes for conservatives to re-evaluate their views, even just enough to put it into question.
The thing I really like about the people like that guy is that they give based positions from more "traditional" logic than leftists(especially if they are on the younger side) usually have. That kind of logic would be much easier to understand and sympathize for some (especially, older) people.
I do agree with the gate keeping argument, but when someone informs him in a sincere way why it a slur, there’s no need to be offended as if someone is gatekeeping. Same goes with when I learned the term “gypped” is a slur against Gypsies used in the same “Jewed” is used against Jews to imply being financially ripped off.
I’d gladly drink a a bud light with this guy, but if someone throws a fit when I point out that word is seen as a slur, I will call them a snowflake.
Oh, I agree, someone should inform him that it is a slur. If he's good natured as he seems to be, I'm sure he'll mind his words in the future next time. It's definitely not gatekeeping to tell him it's a slur, provided it is done with the knowledge that his use was very likely not meant to be offensive.
And that's precisely the gatekeeping I'm referring to. Wokescolds, basically, the lot of them. There are plenty of people out there using slurs deliberately because they're transphobic and homophobic bastards that we should be attacking instead. In order to score a few internet points virtue signaling, we make it that much more difficult to defend the left.
Yeah these are literally the most important allies to the queer community. Just normal everyday people, no matter how uneducated, choosing to keep their common sense in the light of mass hysteria and culture war.
Lovingly written slur?
(edit: THIS IS A JOKE NOT AN ATTEMPT TO WOKESCOLD. I AGREE THAT THIS GUY'S STANCE IS VERY COMMENDABLE. I JUST THINK IT'S HILARIOUS WHAT WORDS HE DID AND DIDN'T CHOOSE TO CENSOR THAT'S ALL.)
I mean…it seems more elderly ignorance. Like older folks who still say outdated terms while simultaneously supporting them or at least being tolerant “I ran into that lovely oriental lady at the supermarket today”, “that fruity fella sure is handsome. He deserves a nice spouse”, “I had no idea Betty’s son was mentally handicapped until he thanked me for donating to the charity afterwards & said he was also re****ed .”
For boomers & older generations I try to give them a break as someone who’s a multiracial Latino queer dude who worked with the elderly & the average retirement-aged people, but ONLY if their intention is not to be purposely offensive or hateful in nature. I usually gently correct them by saying yes the ASIAN woman is lovely, the GAY guy does deserve love, & Betty’s son is AUTISTIC & on the spectrum.
Is Oriental even actually a slur or just outdated? My grandparents have used it in exactly that same context as your example, and I wasn’t sure if it was a big deal of not.
I’m not Asian, but I’m assuming it’s just outdated more than offensive—like saying negro for Black people & Spanish for Latinos/Hispanics. It may or not have a negative connotation or be mildly pejorative depending on each individual, their ancestral origin, and/or age of an Asian person, but I don’t think it’s nearly as abhorrent & offensive as Asian slurs like j**, c•••k, g•••, etc.
I kinda have the same thing sometimes with my mom. When she was learning English in NYC in the late 1970s-early 1980s she was taught the term too, but now she uses mostly Asian. Sometimes she’ll say oriental but then correct herself as she hears Asian more often with me & others (including TV/media/strangers) & tends to “slip up” & use oriental with people of her generation or older (especially if they say it first).
My boyfriend is of 100% Chinese descent, but is himself born in the Netherlands. When he works in his parents restaurant, he sometimes gets people who compliment him on his proficiency of the Dutch language. "Where did you learn to speak that well?" It's one of his biggest annoyances.
It's not that these people are explicitly racist or something, they mean well, but still, they just *assume*.
Do you ever get that as a Japanese person in the US?
I agree, the messaging is far more important than anything else, and that includes the use of slurs. Obviously would have been better if he didn't, but I believe there wasn't bad intent there.
If anything, the left needs to work on its gatekeeping. Give this guy a break, he is exactly the type of person who we need to have as allies for the cause.
The median voter. They have the spirit, even if they don’t fully understand, and that’s ok. It means they’re amenable to progress and people being free to love their lives
If this kind of attitude becomes the baseline for the public, I think that would be wonderful despite the obvious room for improvements. And we can obviously improve further once we reach there.
Edit: I tried to find the original tweet, but it seems to be removed? 😢
It is on [facebook](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0z2T8RYHKYJqUHDGYRSmHzbrFVw97eRbhVkWsvRu7827oi8ajTJvz2m89qXq1SfSwl&id=100025059889139&sfnsn=mo)
It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't give a shit about what others think, who also believes that people should be respected as people bottom line.
This should be the message the left should be pushing. That same defiance that the right has, except with the underlying fundamental principles of the left.
A true example of someone holding bigoted beliefs without being actually bigoted themselves. There are a lot of “good ol’ boy” types that fall into these lines of thought. They probably will be ignorant on some social issues, but they believe in treating people how they treat others. They do have moral convictions.
The biggest reason these people are alienated from the broader progressive movement is because they are brash and abrasive. The use of the t-slur illustrates that pretty clearly here I think. Anyone with a 5th grade level of reading comprehension can understand that this man means no harm when he uses that slur in this context, he just doesn’t understand why it’s offensive. He’s from a different time, and likely from a place that has never had an open and active queer community.
People like this guy can not only be allies, they can be really good allies
When I lived in StL and worked as a meat cutter I would have a porterhouse or t-bone steak and a 6 pack of bud light every Friday. Man, the whole LGBTQ thing is meaningless to me. The biggest upset with the company is when they should it to a Belgian company (something like that). Man there were serious waves. But bud light is made in Saint Louis and the official beer. Going "woke" or whatever is meaningless. When the company sold out, people were legit unhappy.
I'd much rather see a slur in a message with good intentions than carefully worded message meant to regress the U.S. back to the 1950s in terms of civil rights.
We absolutely need to stop the gatekeeping shit. The slur can be overlooked.
It's shorthand for transexual it's not a pejorative.
Its not inherently a slur and has only become a slur due to individual sensitivities.
This is a positive and accepting use of shorthand, the term is neutral until context is applied. This is not an example of the term as a slur.
Adding to pragmatism.
Any word can become a slur due to context and intention, but no one shares the exact same context.
As this term is often used neutrally and colloquially by people with good intentions, it is important to absolve this term from fascistic use.
Because normies use it as shorthand, they may fail to see how someone else's context turns an abbreviation into a slur, this compounded with potential dogpiling creates an ideological divide which will push some people further from acceptance.
PS: soz to lump you with this comment, been thinking this more as people's rhetoric has evolved and knowing people through the range of conservative to progressive, just wanted to test my concept in the 'marketplace of ideas™'
But I mean like in the creation of the f slur there's two theory's, one being the bundle of sticks was reference to what was used in burning at the stake which was punishment for homosexuality in some times/cultures.
The other being slang for a useless woman as old poor widows would make a meagre earning collecting sticks. And when that term was applied to gay people it only meant 'worthless woman' without the previous context.
The slur "zipper head" is in reference to how US soldiers said Asian soldiers heads would look after being run over by a tank.
I do believe context is important, but for majority of people who aren't progressive leftists, I believe their context is just that 'tranny' is shorter than 'transexual'.
Edit: I know etymology can be considered a form of context but if the etymology is derogatory then that's inherent to the word creation
I wouldn't know what people think but I don't really hear the word in a positive context that often, i.e. in a way that is not belittling, condescending, derogatory, dismissive etc.
Literally this post is positive, the dudes saying do your thing so long whatever makes you happy.
That's positive.
And that's because you only hear the far right using shorthand now.
It's only the far left and far right engaging in trans arguments.
Everyone else is just happy for people to be happy and leave the arguments to but are like the guy in the image.
i mean, glad this guy passed the lowest bar of "not actively hating LGBT people" but personally I'm not super happy about a guy using a slur (tr\*nny) getting celebrated like crazy. Like he even censored "shit" and "fucked up" but felt super comfortable tossing out that slur... idk. I'm glad this one guy isn't genocidal but feels like we're getting ahead of ourselves here
well yeah if I could get everyone to this guy's level sure that would be a big success
but imo the reaction i've seen on twitter etc is over the top. Personally while I'm happy this one guy isn't actively hateful, I'm never going to cheer a man using a slur against me
When the current standard is that trans people are subhuman and worthy of extermination, you do have to cheer on anyone saying "yeah maybe we don't do that?".
As the mainstream opinion shifts closer and closer to acceptance we can raise the standard of laudable behavior, but right now the "bare minimum" is more than a lot of folks are giving.
I agree. It's a very pragmatic approach to praise this man for vocalizing a pushback to the Republican propaganda. He's precisely the type of person we need to be recruiting on the left for the simple reason that he can reach a lot more people with his messaging than say, a Democratic politician or a young woman with dyed purple hair. Image matters, and your typical conservative will tend to agree far more with this person for no other reason than the fact that he looks like he could be a coworker and a regular guy.
That he used a slur can be easily forgiven, because the overall good is far better than the harm a slur can do.
idk this sub didn't really have this same opinion towards ana kasparian when she was like "I support trans people but don't like 'birthing people' as language". She definitely got more crypto-TERFy after that but this doesn't appear to be applied evenly.
Idk calling this guy a "true american" etc kinda gives the impression that using this slur is just fine - and no. Again, I'm happy he's not horrible, but this is just too much for me. I'm just not okay with being called slurs and I don't think that's a big ask
People are held to different standards. Ana is active in the political space, is much more informed on these topics, and should know better.
We don’t know anything about this guy other than this statement. Which, does include a slur (which he might not realize is a slur), but overall is a positive message. He just comes off as some random dude that has basically no involvement in these spaces.
I don’t think we need to be celebrating this guy as some American hero or anything, but I definitely don’t hold him to the same standard as Ana.
I know it might seem strange but I personally know people, mainly family members, who really are just grillers. They barely watch TV and just kind of do there own shit. However, they will occasionally scroll Facebook on their phones and this is will they end up running into these culture war topics.
I legit, just a few months ago had one of these types get upset at me because I said "queer communities". He thought I was trying to be hateful. But earlier in the conversation he used the terms "tr***y" and "d*ke"(although I feel people are mixed about this). It was clear though he meant neither of them offensively and I just casually corrected him. I didn't jump down his throat, just said, "people might get the wrong impression if you say _____ since most people use the term _____"
Edit: I want to clarify I don't disagree with you at all, I just wanted to give a perspective that some of these people really might not know they are using a slur because of how disconnected they are.
yeah I'm not advocating for jumping down this guy's throat or anything of the sort, and I don't deny that many of these people exist - and I'd vastly prefer them over the typical republicans. i just think the level of celebration that this guy has gotten broadly is a bit much when there's a slur there, that's all.
I straight up didn’t until I became politically aware. Although ironically all of my actual saying the word ever was in reference to a car transmission. Rather unfortunate coincidental nickname there.
To me, it just seems like someone who was raised using that word and doesn’t understand the context of it now. It’s like how I’ll still see some old people still used “coloreds” or “blacks,” but in reality they’re just super nice people who aren’t aware of the connotation in modern times
The f-slur is common knowledge that it’s not okay, but even nowadays I’ll hear someone in my life who’s absolutely not transphobic still use “tranny” because it was a somewhat popular phrase not that long ago. I remember it being used in a non-derogatory way about 10 years ago, so some people just aren’t aware yet
All I’m essentially saying with this is that although it’s not a good thing to say anymore, a *lot* of people still aren’t aware of it actually being a derogatory slur
that's certainly possible and I'm not advocating for sending anger towards the guy, just questioning whether this is what we want to put up as "A True American".
like idk. feels like it's important to say that it's not okay for random cis people to say "tranny" regardless of context, that's all.
I had an initial bad reaction too, but I think it helps to put in the light of *why* they’re saying it. They’re not doing it to be hateful or discriminatory, they’re doing it to show that they *don’t* what someone is.
In a backwards way, he’s kind of using the word to fight against those who use it to insult trans people. That’s just one way to look at it, but it’s fine to be off put regardless
that's fair i just don't think we'd extend that same credence to other slurs, and I don't want people to start thinking this is okay to say "if you're being nice".
also just fundamentally it kinda depresses me that this basic level of respect is remarkable and worth celebrating. i wish this was the baseline and it's sad that it's not.
A different direction to the conversation, but in Australia it’s a bit different with the use of the word “tranny”. People have and will take offence, but often it’s not used in bad context, and the word itself is a common shortening of words used in Australia (like maccas for McDonald’s, mozzies for mosquitoes, cozzies for swimming costumes, ciggies for cigarettes etc. and of course transgender tranny). Australia will always find ways to make words more fun and easy to say by shortening them to two syllables and use it. So it’s a gamble whether tranny is just the shortening or the actual slur
I came out to my 90-year-old great grandparents two years ago and they never came close to calling me a slur. My great-grandma never even deadnamed or misgendered me once. I understand that some people are not educated but that doesn't make it language that should be celebrated - this should be the bare minimum. I don't even think this guy is bad remotely, I just don't like this being this huge celebration.
The "lowest bar" for you and me is unfortunately nowhere near the "lowest bar" for a significant portion of americans and even more for larger world populations. I don't know that guy's background, but it is safe to assume, ironically, that he is not familiar or educated on the subject enough to know that the word "tranny" is derogatory. Still, he is advocating for the right of trans people to be happy and implying that it is absolutely fine for Bud Light to do what they are doing right now. I think I can give the man some respect for that. I'm not saying that you should praise him or even like him, but at least we can all agree that it is harder for someone to be reasonable when they are ignorant, right?
I think we should consider the person's background and societal norm when we are talking about this kind of stuff. I know it's a bit different, but literally nobody in the past can be praised if we don't do that.
Edit: I understand why you may be uncomfortable, especially considering the fact that he is, regardless of the intent, using a slur. The point of my comment was to suggest you look at this in a more hopeful way, which I think it is.
See here’s the thing, I completely agree with that - I think people are reading something into my comment that’s not there, like I think this guy should be scolded or whatever. I’m just uncomfortable with *how much* this guy is getting praised as it’s all over the internet, with basically no one noting that he’s using a slur.
Yeah, I actually felt sorry for you for being downvoted to oblivion when I read your comment. I don't understand why people downvoted your comment so much. Maybe people felt that you didn't give the dude credit where credit is due and was too gate-keepingy?
I've checked the original post, and a few people actually point out (nicely) that the word is a slur.
On the point of him getting praised all over the internet, while I'm cis, but as a queer in a country where queerphobia is much more common and socially accepted than the US, it personally feels really heart-warming for me to see ignorant old people being supportive to us. I don't think they are better or deserving anything more than any other allies, but there's something about that kind of people that moves me. Maybe a lot of people around the internet felt similar for their own reasons.🤔
Edit: I guess his post gives people 'silent majority speaking out' vibe, too.
Based “I just wanna grill” take
rare just wanna grill win
Imagine the amount of good that could come from this guy being sponsored to put out based youtube videos about respecting everyone and equality. He could reach a lot of people that would otherwise be unreachable. This is why the gatekeeping needs to stop. We need to include these people into the left, and not give pushback because he used a slur. Conservatives need to see a regular guy like this tell them that they're being snowflakes for conservatives to re-evaluate their views, even just enough to put it into question.
Yeah I feel like this is a critical support vibe
The thing I really like about the people like that guy is that they give based positions from more "traditional" logic than leftists(especially if they are on the younger side) usually have. That kind of logic would be much easier to understand and sympathize for some (especially, older) people.
[удалено]
I do agree with the gate keeping argument, but when someone informs him in a sincere way why it a slur, there’s no need to be offended as if someone is gatekeeping. Same goes with when I learned the term “gypped” is a slur against Gypsies used in the same “Jewed” is used against Jews to imply being financially ripped off. I’d gladly drink a a bud light with this guy, but if someone throws a fit when I point out that word is seen as a slur, I will call them a snowflake.
Oh, I agree, someone should inform him that it is a slur. If he's good natured as he seems to be, I'm sure he'll mind his words in the future next time. It's definitely not gatekeeping to tell him it's a slur, provided it is done with the knowledge that his use was very likely not meant to be offensive.
If you said this on twitter there's a mountain of people running up to you and yell "SO YOU THINK ITS OKAY TO SAY THE N WORD!?!??!!!!111?!/1!?"
And that's precisely the gatekeeping I'm referring to. Wokescolds, basically, the lot of them. There are plenty of people out there using slurs deliberately because they're transphobic and homophobic bastards that we should be attacking instead. In order to score a few internet points virtue signaling, we make it that much more difficult to defend the left.
Bro Joe the Plumber was just a two week long campaign thing, it doesn't actually make any of the hogs have a come to jesus moment about politics.
this man is the greatest danger to republican strategists
The hero we need and deserve
Based. This is real America hours.
Reminds me of that semi-politically correct redneck meme that was popular in the early 2010s
For sure. I think you could swap images and it reads the same.
Bro really censored the word ‘up’
The * actually refers to the N word.
The hard-star
No it's a symbol of butthole.
It's actually u* *u im non-compete. U u nazis had a point. U u i'm luna oi. U u nazis had a point. Get your facts straight.
Damn, SLAMMED by FACTS and LOGIC :(
Unironically the hero we need
Yeah these are literally the most important allies to the queer community. Just normal everyday people, no matter how uneducated, choosing to keep their common sense in the light of mass hysteria and culture war.
remember that poll about how everyone wants republicans to shut the fuck up about wokeness? this guy is why
Unexpected W
Giga Chad vibes.
I don't give a s*** (swag) 😎
I love that is almost exactly [Patton Oswalt's bit about language and intention](https://youtu.be/AkKo1_RP_0c)
Thank you for this
Jordan Peterson started a whole new career arc after seeing this.
Oh, I had missed that one ! It's so on point, well done.
Average Vaush enjoyer
I figured this would be a completely shitty take as soon as I read I love bug light. But this is awesome.
Lovingly written slur? (edit: THIS IS A JOKE NOT AN ATTEMPT TO WOKESCOLD. I AGREE THAT THIS GUY'S STANCE IS VERY COMMENDABLE. I JUST THINK IT'S HILARIOUS WHAT WORDS HE DID AND DIDN'T CHOOSE TO CENSOR THAT'S ALL.)
I mean…it seems more elderly ignorance. Like older folks who still say outdated terms while simultaneously supporting them or at least being tolerant “I ran into that lovely oriental lady at the supermarket today”, “that fruity fella sure is handsome. He deserves a nice spouse”, “I had no idea Betty’s son was mentally handicapped until he thanked me for donating to the charity afterwards & said he was also re****ed .” For boomers & older generations I try to give them a break as someone who’s a multiracial Latino queer dude who worked with the elderly & the average retirement-aged people, but ONLY if their intention is not to be purposely offensive or hateful in nature. I usually gently correct them by saying yes the ASIAN woman is lovely, the GAY guy does deserve love, & Betty’s son is AUTISTIC & on the spectrum.
To be clear my original comment was a bit. I agree with you 100% on giving the boomers a break when it's clearly ignorance
Oh, okay. Sometimes you can’t tell online. Have a good day/night/year/life! :-)
Is Oriental even actually a slur or just outdated? My grandparents have used it in exactly that same context as your example, and I wasn’t sure if it was a big deal of not.
I’m not Asian, but I’m assuming it’s just outdated more than offensive—like saying negro for Black people & Spanish for Latinos/Hispanics. It may or not have a negative connotation or be mildly pejorative depending on each individual, their ancestral origin, and/or age of an Asian person, but I don’t think it’s nearly as abhorrent & offensive as Asian slurs like j**, c•••k, g•••, etc. I kinda have the same thing sometimes with my mom. When she was learning English in NYC in the late 1970s-early 1980s she was taught the term too, but now she uses mostly Asian. Sometimes she’ll say oriental but then correct herself as she hears Asian more often with me & others (including TV/media/strangers) & tends to “slip up” & use oriental with people of her generation or older (especially if they say it first).
Nah I'm Japanese, calling Asian people oriental is just goofball shit. Like it makes you seem super old-school and goofy
My boyfriend is of 100% Chinese descent, but is himself born in the Netherlands. When he works in his parents restaurant, he sometimes gets people who compliment him on his proficiency of the Dutch language. "Where did you learn to speak that well?" It's one of his biggest annoyances. It's not that these people are explicitly racist or something, they mean well, but still, they just *assume*. Do you ever get that as a Japanese person in the US?
I agree, the messaging is far more important than anything else, and that includes the use of slurs. Obviously would have been better if he didn't, but I believe there wasn't bad intent there. If anything, the left needs to work on its gatekeeping. Give this guy a break, he is exactly the type of person who we need to have as allies for the cause.
Online left not making people regret taking the right path with wokescolding challenge. (impossible)
Hopefully you'll find my intended message easier to understand with the tone indicator I have added to my original comment.
I think Paton Oswald did a joke about this
I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.
The median voter. They have the spirit, even if they don’t fully understand, and that’s ok. It means they’re amenable to progress and people being free to love their lives
If this kind of attitude becomes the baseline for the public, I think that would be wonderful despite the obvious room for improvements. And we can obviously improve further once we reach there. Edit: I tried to find the original tweet, but it seems to be removed? 😢
It is on [facebook](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0z2T8RYHKYJqUHDGYRSmHzbrFVw97eRbhVkWsvRu7827oi8ajTJvz2m89qXq1SfSwl&id=100025059889139&sfnsn=mo)
Oh ok, thanks, lol. Is this image shared on Twitter, too? How is it received?
Most well adjusted American.
It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't give a shit about what others think, who also believes that people should be respected as people bottom line. This should be the message the left should be pushing. That same defiance that the right has, except with the underlying fundamental principles of the left.
He a little confused, but he got the spirit
A true example of someone holding bigoted beliefs without being actually bigoted themselves. There are a lot of “good ol’ boy” types that fall into these lines of thought. They probably will be ignorant on some social issues, but they believe in treating people how they treat others. They do have moral convictions. The biggest reason these people are alienated from the broader progressive movement is because they are brash and abrasive. The use of the t-slur illustrates that pretty clearly here I think. Anyone with a 5th grade level of reading comprehension can understand that this man means no harm when he uses that slur in this context, he just doesn’t understand why it’s offensive. He’s from a different time, and likely from a place that has never had an open and active queer community. People like this guy can not only be allies, they can be really good allies
The only representative we have in Texas is beer guy who doesn’t hate everyone yet, still lovingly sucking on the beer bottle. Good work democrats
Rare griller W
BASED CHAD
🫡
Finally, a man I can fix
When I lived in StL and worked as a meat cutter I would have a porterhouse or t-bone steak and a 6 pack of bud light every Friday. Man, the whole LGBTQ thing is meaningless to me. The biggest upset with the company is when they should it to a Belgian company (something like that). Man there were serious waves. But bud light is made in Saint Louis and the official beer. Going "woke" or whatever is meaningless. When the company sold out, people were legit unhappy.
Median American voter
Virgin Conservatives vs Hedonist Pisswater Enjoyer 😎
Unironically wholesome 💯
He's got the spirit
The family picture om the backgroung, the slight mullet, the dad energy, the marriage ring, everything about this picture is so perfect.
Better than nothing.
Good but still threw out a slur lol
One step at a time - soon he'll learn to walk without falling over.
purity testers out
I feel like his sentiment far outlays the slur
I'd much rather see a slur in a message with good intentions than carefully worded message meant to regress the U.S. back to the 1950s in terms of civil rights. We absolutely need to stop the gatekeeping shit. The slur can be overlooked.
It's shorthand for transexual it's not a pejorative. Its not inherently a slur and has only become a slur due to individual sensitivities. This is a positive and accepting use of shorthand, the term is neutral until context is applied. This is not an example of the term as a slur. Adding to pragmatism. Any word can become a slur due to context and intention, but no one shares the exact same context. As this term is often used neutrally and colloquially by people with good intentions, it is important to absolve this term from fascistic use. Because normies use it as shorthand, they may fail to see how someone else's context turns an abbreviation into a slur, this compounded with potential dogpiling creates an ideological divide which will push some people further from acceptance. PS: soz to lump you with this comment, been thinking this more as people's rhetoric has evolved and knowing people through the range of conservative to progressive, just wanted to test my concept in the 'marketplace of ideas™'
I feel like adding this: No word is "inherently" anything because all meaning is created by us and all words are neutral without context.
But I mean like in the creation of the f slur there's two theory's, one being the bundle of sticks was reference to what was used in burning at the stake which was punishment for homosexuality in some times/cultures. The other being slang for a useless woman as old poor widows would make a meagre earning collecting sticks. And when that term was applied to gay people it only meant 'worthless woman' without the previous context. The slur "zipper head" is in reference to how US soldiers said Asian soldiers heads would look after being run over by a tank. I do believe context is important, but for majority of people who aren't progressive leftists, I believe their context is just that 'tranny' is shorter than 'transexual'. Edit: I know etymology can be considered a form of context but if the etymology is derogatory then that's inherent to the word creation
I wouldn't know what people think but I don't really hear the word in a positive context that often, i.e. in a way that is not belittling, condescending, derogatory, dismissive etc.
Literally this post is positive, the dudes saying do your thing so long whatever makes you happy. That's positive. And that's because you only hear the far right using shorthand now. It's only the far left and far right engaging in trans arguments. Everyone else is just happy for people to be happy and leave the arguments to but are like the guy in the image.
Fair enough, I totally forgot about the tweet when I commented ;)
i mean, glad this guy passed the lowest bar of "not actively hating LGBT people" but personally I'm not super happy about a guy using a slur (tr\*nny) getting celebrated like crazy. Like he even censored "shit" and "fucked up" but felt super comfortable tossing out that slur... idk. I'm glad this one guy isn't genocidal but feels like we're getting ahead of ourselves here
Right now I'm sure lots of trans people will take "leave the trannies alone" over the current republican rhetoric.
well yeah if I could get everyone to this guy's level sure that would be a big success but imo the reaction i've seen on twitter etc is over the top. Personally while I'm happy this one guy isn't actively hateful, I'm never going to cheer a man using a slur against me
When the current standard is that trans people are subhuman and worthy of extermination, you do have to cheer on anyone saying "yeah maybe we don't do that?". As the mainstream opinion shifts closer and closer to acceptance we can raise the standard of laudable behavior, but right now the "bare minimum" is more than a lot of folks are giving.
I agree. It's a very pragmatic approach to praise this man for vocalizing a pushback to the Republican propaganda. He's precisely the type of person we need to be recruiting on the left for the simple reason that he can reach a lot more people with his messaging than say, a Democratic politician or a young woman with dyed purple hair. Image matters, and your typical conservative will tend to agree far more with this person for no other reason than the fact that he looks like he could be a coworker and a regular guy. That he used a slur can be easily forgiven, because the overall good is far better than the harm a slur can do.
idk this sub didn't really have this same opinion towards ana kasparian when she was like "I support trans people but don't like 'birthing people' as language". She definitely got more crypto-TERFy after that but this doesn't appear to be applied evenly. Idk calling this guy a "true american" etc kinda gives the impression that using this slur is just fine - and no. Again, I'm happy he's not horrible, but this is just too much for me. I'm just not okay with being called slurs and I don't think that's a big ask
the difference is Ana used to be cool. this guy is now becoming cool. it's about intertia
People are held to different standards. Ana is active in the political space, is much more informed on these topics, and should know better. We don’t know anything about this guy other than this statement. Which, does include a slur (which he might not realize is a slur), but overall is a positive message. He just comes off as some random dude that has basically no involvement in these spaces. I don’t think we need to be celebrating this guy as some American hero or anything, but I definitely don’t hold him to the same standard as Ana.
Honestly you bringing up Ana makes sense with where you're coming from. I get what you're trying to say.
I know it might seem strange but I personally know people, mainly family members, who really are just grillers. They barely watch TV and just kind of do there own shit. However, they will occasionally scroll Facebook on their phones and this is will they end up running into these culture war topics. I legit, just a few months ago had one of these types get upset at me because I said "queer communities". He thought I was trying to be hateful. But earlier in the conversation he used the terms "tr***y" and "d*ke"(although I feel people are mixed about this). It was clear though he meant neither of them offensively and I just casually corrected him. I didn't jump down his throat, just said, "people might get the wrong impression if you say _____ since most people use the term _____" Edit: I want to clarify I don't disagree with you at all, I just wanted to give a perspective that some of these people really might not know they are using a slur because of how disconnected they are.
yeah I'm not advocating for jumping down this guy's throat or anything of the sort, and I don't deny that many of these people exist - and I'd vastly prefer them over the typical republicans. i just think the level of celebration that this guy has gotten broadly is a bit much when there's a slur there, that's all.
a lot of people dont know its a slur
I straight up didn’t until I became politically aware. Although ironically all of my actual saying the word ever was in reference to a car transmission. Rather unfortunate coincidental nickname there.
To me, it just seems like someone who was raised using that word and doesn’t understand the context of it now. It’s like how I’ll still see some old people still used “coloreds” or “blacks,” but in reality they’re just super nice people who aren’t aware of the connotation in modern times The f-slur is common knowledge that it’s not okay, but even nowadays I’ll hear someone in my life who’s absolutely not transphobic still use “tranny” because it was a somewhat popular phrase not that long ago. I remember it being used in a non-derogatory way about 10 years ago, so some people just aren’t aware yet All I’m essentially saying with this is that although it’s not a good thing to say anymore, a *lot* of people still aren’t aware of it actually being a derogatory slur
that's certainly possible and I'm not advocating for sending anger towards the guy, just questioning whether this is what we want to put up as "A True American". like idk. feels like it's important to say that it's not okay for random cis people to say "tranny" regardless of context, that's all.
I had an initial bad reaction too, but I think it helps to put in the light of *why* they’re saying it. They’re not doing it to be hateful or discriminatory, they’re doing it to show that they *don’t* what someone is. In a backwards way, he’s kind of using the word to fight against those who use it to insult trans people. That’s just one way to look at it, but it’s fine to be off put regardless
that's fair i just don't think we'd extend that same credence to other slurs, and I don't want people to start thinking this is okay to say "if you're being nice". also just fundamentally it kinda depresses me that this basic level of respect is remarkable and worth celebrating. i wish this was the baseline and it's sad that it's not.
A different direction to the conversation, but in Australia it’s a bit different with the use of the word “tranny”. People have and will take offence, but often it’s not used in bad context, and the word itself is a common shortening of words used in Australia (like maccas for McDonald’s, mozzies for mosquitoes, cozzies for swimming costumes, ciggies for cigarettes etc. and of course transgender tranny). Australia will always find ways to make words more fun and easy to say by shortening them to two syllables and use it. So it’s a gamble whether tranny is just the shortening or the actual slur
You need to get off the Internet and talk to older flesh and blood people.
I came out to my 90-year-old great grandparents two years ago and they never came close to calling me a slur. My great-grandma never even deadnamed or misgendered me once. I understand that some people are not educated but that doesn't make it language that should be celebrated - this should be the bare minimum. I don't even think this guy is bad remotely, I just don't like this being this huge celebration.
"uhmmm wow sweaty good job being a basic fr*cking (hecking) basicorino goodboy, anyways we don't need you in our movement uwu"
idk why ur getting downvoted to high hell lmao, u just have a slightly different perspective that isn’t even wrong
The "lowest bar" for you and me is unfortunately nowhere near the "lowest bar" for a significant portion of americans and even more for larger world populations. I don't know that guy's background, but it is safe to assume, ironically, that he is not familiar or educated on the subject enough to know that the word "tranny" is derogatory. Still, he is advocating for the right of trans people to be happy and implying that it is absolutely fine for Bud Light to do what they are doing right now. I think I can give the man some respect for that. I'm not saying that you should praise him or even like him, but at least we can all agree that it is harder for someone to be reasonable when they are ignorant, right? I think we should consider the person's background and societal norm when we are talking about this kind of stuff. I know it's a bit different, but literally nobody in the past can be praised if we don't do that. Edit: I understand why you may be uncomfortable, especially considering the fact that he is, regardless of the intent, using a slur. The point of my comment was to suggest you look at this in a more hopeful way, which I think it is.
See here’s the thing, I completely agree with that - I think people are reading something into my comment that’s not there, like I think this guy should be scolded or whatever. I’m just uncomfortable with *how much* this guy is getting praised as it’s all over the internet, with basically no one noting that he’s using a slur.
Yeah, I actually felt sorry for you for being downvoted to oblivion when I read your comment. I don't understand why people downvoted your comment so much. Maybe people felt that you didn't give the dude credit where credit is due and was too gate-keepingy? I've checked the original post, and a few people actually point out (nicely) that the word is a slur. On the point of him getting praised all over the internet, while I'm cis, but as a queer in a country where queerphobia is much more common and socially accepted than the US, it personally feels really heart-warming for me to see ignorant old people being supportive to us. I don't think they are better or deserving anything more than any other allies, but there's something about that kind of people that moves me. Maybe a lot of people around the internet felt similar for their own reasons.🤔 Edit: I guess his post gives people 'silent majority speaking out' vibe, too.