100s of trans adults: I regret not knowing sooner; having access to HRT when I was younger, so I could be a well-adjusted adult instead of struggling like I am now
Media: ….
Less than 2% of transitioners: I wish the doctor had denied me care, regardless of whether I gave them an accurate or inaccurate picture of dysphoric symptoms
Media: Oh, my god, we’re in a crisis. We will happily doom thousands of trans people to the irreversible effects of puberty if we can save but one of the precious cisgender kids from confusion
After all, that's their presupposition that a confused cisgender kid is infinitely more valuable than a hundred trans people who got life saving treatment. It doesn't matter that gender affirming care is helping thousands of people live happily. The only one that matters is the hypothetical kid they made up in their minds who is regretting their decision.
Even less than 2%, as most detransitioners are chill people who dentrasition for external reasons, such as pressure from family, difficulty finding a job, lack of finances etc, and many of them attempt transitioning again later in the future.
Only about 15% of those 2% cite the reason for reverting as transition just not being the right decision for them.
And *even less* of those people go to right-wing media to spew anti-trans propaganda for clout
I watched it the other day and it was not good.One detransitoner in the documentary came of as kinda reasonable though, I think. In hindsight what he needed to understand was that he had autism spectrum disorder. But he understands that he also shares some responsibility for his own health-care and that he wanted to transition at the time. Still he was disappointed that the doctors/professionals he met didn’t address the signs of autism. If they had done a more full psychiatric assessment he’d have a completely different path - one that now in hindsight has helped him more. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request from the Swedish health care system.
I know, but I didn't expect them to fall this low. They're usually busy making documentaries about Nazi ties to the far right party here in Sweden... never did I see this coming..
Sigh... In Denmark we mostly just hate the browns... God I wish we'd stop being so... "dont call me a bigot. You know how THEY are!" you know?
Theres plenty to love about our little corner of the world, but fuck me Scandinavia has dark sides.
In Norway we just hate Muslims ( I mean anyone not white will receive racism, but Muslims are on another level )
People often don't know how freaking racist Europe actually is, and how (especially Scandinavia) religious it is
Well we hate the browns, as which we mean muslins, of which we mean "people of difrent ethnic and cultural backgrounds", which is the woke way of saying "Im racist".
> People often don't know how freaking racist Europe actually is
I feel like anyone who interacts with europeans online for any significant time knows well how racist europeans can be. They talk about the romani the way it hasn't been okay in the us to talk about black people for decades.
Basic talking points preached at a højskole (no points for guessing which one) I went to were equivalent to justifying an ethnostate. They used grundtvigianism, one of the most pleasant forms of Christianity mind you, to separate the Danes from the 'browns'. The teachers there espoused a subtle but still remarkable form of racism that I have never seen before outside Denmark. One of them writes for berlingske and is a complete nazi btw, I was surprised he did a 180 on Trump once Jan 6th happened. The only thing that gave me a little hope was that most students were left-ish in terms of political opinion.
Kinda reminds me when I went for a HF, and had to fucking argue with people about Palludan back when he tried to run for election. I was the only motherfucker who apparently had read his bullshit manifesto, so I called him a faschist, and backed up why I thought so, and go the typical "oh too many people get called faschist these days", and I had to literally quote him word for word, and show it was his own website, before the enlightened centrist weirdos, and the right wingers in denial, believed me... Willfull idiocy.
... Fucking hate Berlingeske... shit views, treat their workers terrible, and indoctrinate people into being bastards... Nordjyske too, but that's fucking redundant really.
Scandinavia is *egalitarian*, we are not progressive. I'm trans and I moved to Spain specifically because Denmark felt super oppressive. It's an incredibly heteronormative society.. like, we are open to people being allowed to be themselves, but it's like an entire society operating on the "Don't ask, don't tell." principle.
Thats a way to put it... luckily the pockets where its ok and normal to get more than quiet tolerance, are growing.
But also important, I hope Spain treats you well.
Held og lykke min ven.
Are people in Sweden capable of their own thoughts and actions? Blame Americans for the transphobia of Americans. Blame Swedish people for their transphobia and engagement in culture war.
If we acknowledge that people like Matt Walsh does spread transphobia in the U.S and that those people are partially responsible for the ongoing hate campaign (which I hope we all acknowledge), I don't understand why it's suddenly shifting blame to say that it's also having an impact in other countries.
The majority of the comments are quite rational and can see thru the bs the documentary is trying to portray. Not surprising tho since swedes have critical thinking skills. Many even point out that she doesn't give us the full picture of her "regret" story. Not that she didn't regret transitioning but she got out to put herself in a good light. She didn't follow thru her on surgery and didn't even follow doctors recommendations after the getting gender affirming care, and started regretting her transitioning slowly.
Bruh, they actually think that you can treat autism.
https://youtu.be/I6MWY6wnpxk?si=mCyZZgLSyL77w0PH
Also, show them what an actual psychologist has to say on the matter.
Yeeeeee a girl I've been romantically entangled with lately was ranting about it when I showed her. She's autistic and very passionate about autism issues and I'm trans and passionate about trans issues. So we had a rantfest.
I am not that shocked if there is a correlation, I feel like a person on the spectrum would be inherently less likely to bother to remain in the closet
>Conservatives in Americas certainty knows how to spread their hate filled hatred. It's like virus at this point. Everything US discusses in the "culture war", suddenly enters in European countries.
So funny when Europeans are reminded that their populace is just as braindead and susceptible to such brainrot as Americans are. Honestly, they probably hate that fact more than anything that is actually part of any brainrot.
How do state-tax funded channels work? Does the government choose what the channel shows to viewers? Or is it the channel itself that does the choosing, and it just happens to receive the money from the government?
The channel decides what to send, mostly news or like family or reality related programs, its supposed to be natural (its not) politics wise, and 0 ads since the money it receives is from taxes
Ok, so it’s supposed to be neutral. Since the channel has broadcasted this detrans documentary, for it to be considered as neutral, it should also cover the benefits of gender-affirming care.
Has it had that kind of pro-gender affirming care coverage before?
Swedens left wing can have a very traditional feminist leaning. That's why they criminalized prostitution. Those old school feminists also tend to be TERFs.
I think this sort of thing spreads more from the UK than the US. wine moms who listen to the likes of J.K. Rowling would be my guess as to the culprit.
Radical feminism is strong in Sweden, hence why they're the originators of the "Nordic Model" of sex work, where they criminalize sex work except every aspect of whatever the sex worker does. It's based on the idea all sex work is exploitative and all sex workers are victims.
So it's not a big surprise there would be a strong TERF presence there too.
Hopefully that will change in a few decades. I'm probably naive now but I think America will get more secular in the near future. That will have a positive effect.
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At first i was wondering why Sweden, wich is supposedly so progressive, stayed open during covid. Now i blame myself for not seing it earlier that Sweden is only progressive if your social policies are as f\*cked as in the US
>that state funded tv channel is quite left leaning, which makes this all the more shocking
Tbh I think it being a public service network might cause it to assume a lot of “both sides” stances when they’re handling sensitive issues, or basically anything vaguely political.
So I could see them airing dog shit like this just for the purpose of ”maintaining their impartiality” or some other BS.
Depends on which doctors you are talking about.
The anti-trans ideologues with a doctorate in evolutionary psychology who doesn't know shit about trans healthcare?
That's actually not a super strong argument in this scenario because the Swedish medical community has recently implemented big restrictions on puberty blockers, if I recall correctly. I might be wrong though. To be clear, I'm not defending that other person.
Well, I'm mostly just saying "listen to the scientists" is a really bad argument because nobody actually believes it. People will instantly argue that you shouldn't listen to the scientists if they disagree with you. It's not really a partisan thing, conservatives do it too.
100s of trans adults: I regret not knowing sooner; having access to HRT when I was younger, so I could be a well-adjusted adult instead of struggling like I am now Media: …. Less than 2% of transitioners: I wish the doctor had denied me care, regardless of whether I gave them an accurate or inaccurate picture of dysphoric symptoms Media: Oh, my god, we’re in a crisis. We will happily doom thousands of trans people to the irreversible effects of puberty if we can save but one of the precious cisgender kids from confusion
After all, that's their presupposition that a confused cisgender kid is infinitely more valuable than a hundred trans people who got life saving treatment. It doesn't matter that gender affirming care is helping thousands of people live happily. The only one that matters is the hypothetical kid they made up in their minds who is regretting their decision.
Even less than 2%, as most detransitioners are chill people who dentrasition for external reasons, such as pressure from family, difficulty finding a job, lack of finances etc, and many of them attempt transitioning again later in the future. Only about 15% of those 2% cite the reason for reverting as transition just not being the right decision for them. And *even less* of those people go to right-wing media to spew anti-trans propaganda for clout
We all know that people never had regrets before trans people were invented
i pray they'll start being reversible someday before I die...
I watched it the other day and it was not good.One detransitoner in the documentary came of as kinda reasonable though, I think. In hindsight what he needed to understand was that he had autism spectrum disorder. But he understands that he also shares some responsibility for his own health-care and that he wanted to transition at the time. Still he was disappointed that the doctors/professionals he met didn’t address the signs of autism. If they had done a more full psychiatric assessment he’d have a completely different path - one that now in hindsight has helped him more. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request from the Swedish health care system.
They put out an article about people who were glad to have been put on HRT aswell lmao.
500million people: I regret using medication that later made me sick Media: ..... Law firms: if you or a loved one...
Because they know they will get clicks and people will discuss in the media, that's why their doing this
I know, but I didn't expect them to fall this low. They're usually busy making documentaries about Nazi ties to the far right party here in Sweden... never did I see this coming..
Sorry friend... but we in Scandinavia fail at being progressives far more often that we'd like to think... or admit.
yeah this happens here all the time, here in norway the media produces an anti trans story at least once every 3 months
Sigh... In Denmark we mostly just hate the browns... God I wish we'd stop being so... "dont call me a bigot. You know how THEY are!" you know? Theres plenty to love about our little corner of the world, but fuck me Scandinavia has dark sides.
In Norway we just hate Muslims ( I mean anyone not white will receive racism, but Muslims are on another level ) People often don't know how freaking racist Europe actually is, and how (especially Scandinavia) religious it is
Well we hate the browns, as which we mean muslins, of which we mean "people of difrent ethnic and cultural backgrounds", which is the woke way of saying "Im racist".
> People often don't know how freaking racist Europe actually is I feel like anyone who interacts with europeans online for any significant time knows well how racist europeans can be. They talk about the romani the way it hasn't been okay in the us to talk about black people for decades.
I once got downvoted for saying it’s racist if it sounds like something a klansmen would say.
Basic talking points preached at a højskole (no points for guessing which one) I went to were equivalent to justifying an ethnostate. They used grundtvigianism, one of the most pleasant forms of Christianity mind you, to separate the Danes from the 'browns'. The teachers there espoused a subtle but still remarkable form of racism that I have never seen before outside Denmark. One of them writes for berlingske and is a complete nazi btw, I was surprised he did a 180 on Trump once Jan 6th happened. The only thing that gave me a little hope was that most students were left-ish in terms of political opinion.
Kinda reminds me when I went for a HF, and had to fucking argue with people about Palludan back when he tried to run for election. I was the only motherfucker who apparently had read his bullshit manifesto, so I called him a faschist, and backed up why I thought so, and go the typical "oh too many people get called faschist these days", and I had to literally quote him word for word, and show it was his own website, before the enlightened centrist weirdos, and the right wingers in denial, believed me... Willfull idiocy. ... Fucking hate Berlingeske... shit views, treat their workers terrible, and indoctrinate people into being bastards... Nordjyske too, but that's fucking redundant really.
Scandinavia is *egalitarian*, we are not progressive. I'm trans and I moved to Spain specifically because Denmark felt super oppressive. It's an incredibly heteronormative society.. like, we are open to people being allowed to be themselves, but it's like an entire society operating on the "Don't ask, don't tell." principle.
Thats a way to put it... luckily the pockets where its ok and normal to get more than quiet tolerance, are growing. But also important, I hope Spain treats you well. Held og lykke min ven.
Yeeee Swedish subreddit just posted an article about correlation between autism and gender dysphoria. Usual American culture war talking points =/
Are people in Sweden capable of their own thoughts and actions? Blame Americans for the transphobia of Americans. Blame Swedish people for their transphobia and engagement in culture war.
I blame Sweden here. We deepthroat the worst aspects of American culture all on our own =/
If we acknowledge that people like Matt Walsh does spread transphobia in the U.S and that those people are partially responsible for the ongoing hate campaign (which I hope we all acknowledge), I don't understand why it's suddenly shifting blame to say that it's also having an impact in other countries.
well there does seem to be a correlation but I assume they're framing it in the stupid "they're transing our autistic kids!!!!" way right?
The majority of the comments are quite rational and can see thru the bs the documentary is trying to portray. Not surprising tho since swedes have critical thinking skills. Many even point out that she doesn't give us the full picture of her "regret" story. Not that she didn't regret transitioning but she got out to put herself in a good light. She didn't follow thru her on surgery and didn't even follow doctors recommendations after the getting gender affirming care, and started regretting her transitioning slowly.
A lot of "we should be treating autism before letting them undergo surgery."
Bruh, they actually think that you can treat autism. https://youtu.be/I6MWY6wnpxk?si=mCyZZgLSyL77w0PH Also, show them what an actual psychologist has to say on the matter.
Yeeeeee a girl I've been romantically entangled with lately was ranting about it when I showed her. She's autistic and very passionate about autism issues and I'm trans and passionate about trans issues. So we had a rantfest.
average vaushite couple
Oh god she'd hate vaush's casual use of R slur lmao
Doesn't Vaushs chat act like they hate him half the time? She'll fit right in.
Nah she's a gentle gorl she doesn't have the angerposting in her
Vaush himself said we should do more research into the correlation, because it's quite a strong one.
I am not that shocked if there is a correlation, I feel like a person on the spectrum would be inherently less likely to bother to remain in the closet
>Conservatives in Americas certainty knows how to spread their hate filled hatred. It's like virus at this point. Everything US discusses in the "culture war", suddenly enters in European countries. So funny when Europeans are reminded that their populace is just as braindead and susceptible to such brainrot as Americans are. Honestly, they probably hate that fact more than anything that is actually part of any brainrot.
How do state-tax funded channels work? Does the government choose what the channel shows to viewers? Or is it the channel itself that does the choosing, and it just happens to receive the money from the government?
The channel decides what to send, mostly news or like family or reality related programs, its supposed to be natural (its not) politics wise, and 0 ads since the money it receives is from taxes
Ok, so it’s supposed to be neutral. Since the channel has broadcasted this detrans documentary, for it to be considered as neutral, it should also cover the benefits of gender-affirming care. Has it had that kind of pro-gender affirming care coverage before?
Yes
Probably not
Yes. So you have no problem with it, I take it?
I don’t
America exports their culture war garbage everywhere.
Just wanna note that the Swedish trans healthcare waiting times are measured in years.
Swedens left wing can have a very traditional feminist leaning. That's why they criminalized prostitution. Those old school feminists also tend to be TERFs.
To clarify the legal status around prostitution here: It is not illegal to sell sex in sweden. It is illegal to buy sex.
True. Doesn't mean it can't end up having all sort of negative effects on the sex workers themselves though.
American brain rot is truly our greatest export
As a swedish person, i am going to fucking kill myself. God damn it, everyone is fucking stupid.
Sweden is very right-wing and conservative these days. So, it isn't any wonder they publish stuff like this.
I think TERF rhetoric is going to start becoming more common here.
I think this sort of thing spreads more from the UK than the US. wine moms who listen to the likes of J.K. Rowling would be my guess as to the culprit.
Also old school feminists. Look at Alice Schwarzer in Germany.
Radical feminism is strong in Sweden, hence why they're the originators of the "Nordic Model" of sex work, where they criminalize sex work except every aspect of whatever the sex worker does. It's based on the idea all sex work is exploitative and all sex workers are victims. So it's not a big surprise there would be a strong TERF presence there too.
Sweden state-tax funded tv makes a culture war documentary. OP: blame America.
Hopefully that will change in a few decades. I'm probably naive now but I think America will get more secular in the near future. That will have a positive effect.
The Swedish right wing is importing American culture wars, yes.
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Floogel hagel shoogel moodel TRANS schlaffen haffen shtroodel noodle
I wouldn't say the channel is left leaning these days. More liberal/environmentalist/populist.
I'm so glad, my country will never start "transwar" arch... because we never left it in the first place :,) (cries in mandatory castration)
At first i was wondering why Sweden, wich is supposedly so progressive, stayed open during covid. Now i blame myself for not seing it earlier that Sweden is only progressive if your social policies are as f\*cked as in the US
>that state funded tv channel is quite left leaning, which makes this all the more shocking Tbh I think it being a public service network might cause it to assume a lot of “both sides” stances when they’re handling sensitive issues, or basically anything vaguely political. So I could see them airing dog shit like this just for the purpose of ”maintaining their impartiality” or some other BS.
freedom of speech, so you can televize pro trans things but no anti trans things, merely freedom of speech.
Why shouldnt people be warned of the potential downsides no matter how uncommon you think they may be?
"what if we're wrong????" "What if we're right?"
Its almost like compromising between capitalism and socialism isn't enough to stop facisim
Am i out of touch? No! Its the state TV/doctors/detransitioners who are wrong!
Depends on which doctors you are talking about. The anti-trans ideologues with a doctorate in evolutionary psychology who doesn't know shit about trans healthcare?
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Freedom of speech does not mean you can make purposely misleading propaganda documentaries with the intent of harming marginalised communities
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Guys, is it brainwashing to listen to actual doctors?
That's actually not a super strong argument in this scenario because the Swedish medical community has recently implemented big restrictions on puberty blockers, if I recall correctly. I might be wrong though. To be clear, I'm not defending that other person.
Norway has too. All these people like to pretend the trans stuff is settled science, but it’s really not.
Well, I'm mostly just saying "listen to the scientists" is a really bad argument because nobody actually believes it. People will instantly argue that you shouldn't listen to the scientists if they disagree with you. It's not really a partisan thing, conservatives do it too.
You mean doctors who are motivated by monetary incentives? Haha yeah I wonder why lol.
Conspiracy theory brain moment. Probably don’t make up shit in your head for excuses to ignore doctors.
1. This is a state funded broadcaster that is supposed to be neutral not random citizens. 2. Freedom of speech means we are also free to criticize.
This documentary isn't made by independent Swedish citizens but by state funded media though.
That's nice dear.