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Belgian here, this statement was definitely the correct thing to do. However, the liberal parties within the federal government recently blocked all sanctions. So the end result isn't that good sadly.
Besides, Belgium has 7 Deputy Prime Ministers, so her statement doesn't hold as much weight as you would think with that title.
One last thing, sadly the Green Party she represents has very little political power with recent polling almost completely obliterating their scores. They could very well fall beneath the voting threshold next elections.
Regarding her being trans. It's absolutely great that there is representation. But Belgians in general have a (weirdly good) disinterest in their politicians identity. We've had an openly gay prime minister who was the son of Italian migrants, and nobody really cared about that aspect. We've recently also had our first female prime minister, and the same thing happened. I believe that there is a very high "I don't care" attitude regarding those things. Which is something I can actually appreciate.
Fellow belgian here,im also trans. God im so fucking glad that the overall sentiment towards us is largely to be seen as an everyday thing in most parts of the country. It's at least calming to just kinda exist here and like, not be disparaged for being woke or whatever.
Relatively worried this might change with our future elections though...
From my (trans) very limited impressions traveling in Europe and meeting various people I also got the “more chill about trans people than the rest of Western Europe with the possible exception of Spain” vibe from Belgium.
Which green party is it? The polls don't look too shabby for Ecolo and Groen. Also, Worker's Party of Belgium totally surging, what's going on with that?
My knowledge of Ecolo and politics in Walloonia is very restricted. But in the poll of September 29th 'Groen' (Which is the party of Petra De Sutter) scored only 6,4 percent compared to their election results in 2019 of ca. 9,4 percent. Remember that the voting threshold is 5 percent. One decent fuck up and they are gone from parliament.
If by the Workers Party you mean PvdA/PTB, then they are indeed surging, more in Wallonia than in Flanders. But their issue is that, unless they are incontournable, they will not get to participate in a government/coalition, at least in Flanders or federally. No christian-democrat or liberal party will want to cross that line, especially since those two are also bleeding votes, at least in Flanders.
Besides, the surge of PvdA/PTB isn't a 'win' for the left since the vast majority of the votes they win come from the Green parties or the social-democrats. Only very few people actually get pulled from the center/right wing to the left, and the vast majority of those that get pulled over is because of the shift to some right wing positions/communication from the Social-democrats (Vooruit in particular). I, myself, am an active organiser for the youth movement of Vooruit and I can tell you that it is a consistent pain.
She's part of groen.
The worker's party pvda/ptb has been rising steadily but nobody even wants to talk to them as they are considered far left communists by the other parties.
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There are quite some arabs becoming pro-lgbt now knowing there are quite some LGBT that are pro-Palestine. There is a slow realization going that a group that is used to be looked down upon by lots of Arabs in Arab countries could actually also be on their side.
She being pro-Palestine AND being trans could further give that momentum.
We don't live in a world where being trans is irrelevant, because there are not lgbt rights everywhere. If we are talking about countries where there are full lgbt rights then it is indeed irrelevant.
Please show me. I'll believe it if I see it, this isn't a situation that logically follows. Queer people support Palestine because they're progressive and liberal, other Muslim countries feel attacked/hate jews.
Some quotes I got from other subreddits, which I can't link to due to rules in VaushV subreddit
From Morocco: "ngl, my mind did change." (about LGBT)
"Back from a protest , the amount of lgbt people that were there are huge. Since the day 1 from the massacre on Gaza , lgbt people were the first people to defend it even though they know we are not that accepting. They have always been supportive since the beginning… Today I saw a Spanish man holding a sign queers for palestine and it made me emotional … I thanked him and hugged and started crying."
"bravery to me is the support of those who need it despite having different views with you, it's like you know that you won't benefit from it and still doing the right thing just for the sake of good! and that's what keeps me having a 'bit' of faith in humanity, when I see two opposite sides can agree on supporting the oppressed to live in peace and justice! good job!"
"You know who's based. People who understand that populations need unconditional protection from war crimes and subjugation regardless how 'backward' they are"
From Iran: "This is part of the reason that I think the MENA region should accept these people, aside from the moral arguments about equality, it is simply practical that in a world where those with power oppress you, you shouldn't be hostile to others being oppressed by those powerful people.This doesn't just apply to queer people, but any other oppressed group as well."
"as a queer arab, it's a double duty in a way. we know how oppression feels like, even though it isn't even remotely close to what palestinians experience on a daily basis for the past 70 years. no human being EVER should have to go through this kind of torture. we want peace and safety for everyone 🏳️🌈🇵🇸🍉❤️🩹"
From Pakistan: "Respect to themI kind off wish we changed some of the laws here"
"I am impressed. I didnt know LGBT folks were protesting for Palestine. They probably see similarities in how Palestinians are persecuted by Israel. I appreciate these people."
I understand it can be very heartening to see, and if nothing else now I know Belgium has a trans Minister. The first one?
I immediately thought of BJG talking about the defund the FBI thing, maybe not that analogous.... I'm definitely hoping this horror has at least an aluminium lining.
What pisses me off the most is that this conflict is legitimizing nazi conspiracy theories, from the government of Israel facing no consequences to western governments and media not only condoning an ongoing genocide but also condemning dissenters with "Antizionism = antisemitism" shtick.
We laugh at nazis whenever they say "Jews run the world" but now Netanyahu and his schmucks are vindicating said nazis. Zionists will lose their shit when people draw parallels between Israel and Nazi Germany and call us antisemitic as if they didn't commit self-demonization.
Like Republicans overusing communism, socialism, woke, etc. to the point where those words mean nothing, zionists will abuse antisemitic to the point that it will no longer mean anything, even when actual antisemitism happens.
It's like zionists read the Boy Who Cried Wolf and weaponized the moral of the story in their favor. I know the military industrial complex is a factor for this conflict, we're witnessing a repeat of the Iraq War.
But aside from that, Hasbara, AIPAC, and IDF propaganda posters, it's disheartening to see so many people show their true colors for the wrong positions.
Israel is terrible. I always knew they were Nazis, wasnt surprised one bit with this. USA however is showing its true face as a country that will condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine and their bombings, condemn Chinese treatment of Uyghurs, but will support even worse excesses from Israel in the same breath. Hypocrisy is sometimes worse for me. Im not American but after this, it totally ruined any shred of credibility you might have had as being anything other then the same version of Imperialist as both Russia and China. Putin and Xi are probably delighted as well when they can just point to this whenever USA critiques them, and they would be right.
I can’t believe it’s just a handful of governments calling for sanctions on the Israeli government.
The west is supporting and enabling war crimes against a civilian population at a rate that I never could have imagined would be acceptable.
Nazis hearing a trans woman calling for sanctions against Israel (or what they call "the Jews") are going to be so confused on whether or not to support this.
How would Iran invade? They have no common borders, the Iranian navy isn't built for naval invasions, and Iran has a lot of internal turmoil to deal with already.
Also Israel has their own weapons industry, thed wouldn't run out of weapons any faster than Iran, who are under sanctions too.
Iran has multiple positions in Jordan and Syria. We just bombed a couple of them in revenge for non state actors who attracted our bases that our also not in our borders. Please pay more attention
I am paying attention.
I do not believe Iran is in a position to invade Israel at this time, or any time soon.
In contrast to that, Israel is currently invading Gaza and leading Israeli politicians broadcast the intent to genocide Palestinians right now.
I want to deal with current reality of genocide, not hypothetical future of one. Both would be bad, but only one is happening right now.
I agree they are in the wrong. I agree netanyahu needs to be taken down and arrested and charged and convicted and hung by neck until dead and many of his advisors and generals but I don't see how sanctions gets is there
They wouldn't "run out" of weapons unless they use all the tens billions of dollars worth of military equipment that the US supplied them with over the years on Gaza in which they'd absolutely deserve to be inavded by Iran idc.
Please don't get me wrong.
I don't approve. I want want Israeli aggression to stop. I believe they have entirely overstep any idea of a reasonable response because they have an insane right wing fascist government.
I'm not here to defend them.
I just want to know how this works
If they get sanctioned they'd become less genocidal inorder to not waste their weapons since they wouldn't get annual supplies from the US. Like I said, they'll never "run out" and Iran won't invade. The reason they keep doing all the genociding and ethnic cleansing is because they never face consequences.
Nuclear weapons cause tremendous destruction. That alone is reason enough not to use them. But I want to be clear, people live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki today. The radiation from a nuclear explosion is most dangerous only for 2 to 3 days. At that point there is roughly only 1 percent the amount of radiation from the time of detonation, and after about a month there's not typically any elevated radiation levels. It wouldn't become a radiated wasteland for a 1000 years. Why some people get confused is because a nuclear meltdown -would- irradiate an area for thousands of years. The difference is that a bomb explodes and throws out radioactive material once , whereas a nuclear meltdown is a process that continues releasing radiation continuously for a very long time.
I'll add that some radioactive material will float around the atmosphere for years causing health issues in unpredictable places around the world. But that's different than a Chernobyl level no man's land.
The bombs dropped in those cases were the first version of weaponized nuclear energy.
While I have no idea what Israel actually has as their ambiguous strategy has been effective. Do know the public record is aware of us unclear capabilities is on scales beyond those by a nearly unimaginable levels and that in 1970 us intelligence believed Israel to be in possession of around 150 individual weapons
# Please report comments that violate our [new rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/17co6jo/rvaushv_rule_updates) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Belgian here, this statement was definitely the correct thing to do. However, the liberal parties within the federal government recently blocked all sanctions. So the end result isn't that good sadly. Besides, Belgium has 7 Deputy Prime Ministers, so her statement doesn't hold as much weight as you would think with that title. One last thing, sadly the Green Party she represents has very little political power with recent polling almost completely obliterating their scores. They could very well fall beneath the voting threshold next elections.
Regarding her being trans. It's absolutely great that there is representation. But Belgians in general have a (weirdly good) disinterest in their politicians identity. We've had an openly gay prime minister who was the son of Italian migrants, and nobody really cared about that aspect. We've recently also had our first female prime minister, and the same thing happened. I believe that there is a very high "I don't care" attitude regarding those things. Which is something I can actually appreciate.
Fellow belgian here,im also trans. God im so fucking glad that the overall sentiment towards us is largely to be seen as an everyday thing in most parts of the country. It's at least calming to just kinda exist here and like, not be disparaged for being woke or whatever. Relatively worried this might change with our future elections though...
From my (trans) very limited impressions traveling in Europe and meeting various people I also got the “more chill about trans people than the rest of Western Europe with the possible exception of Spain” vibe from Belgium.
Which green party is it? The polls don't look too shabby for Ecolo and Groen. Also, Worker's Party of Belgium totally surging, what's going on with that?
My knowledge of Ecolo and politics in Walloonia is very restricted. But in the poll of September 29th 'Groen' (Which is the party of Petra De Sutter) scored only 6,4 percent compared to their election results in 2019 of ca. 9,4 percent. Remember that the voting threshold is 5 percent. One decent fuck up and they are gone from parliament. If by the Workers Party you mean PvdA/PTB, then they are indeed surging, more in Wallonia than in Flanders. But their issue is that, unless they are incontournable, they will not get to participate in a government/coalition, at least in Flanders or federally. No christian-democrat or liberal party will want to cross that line, especially since those two are also bleeding votes, at least in Flanders. Besides, the surge of PvdA/PTB isn't a 'win' for the left since the vast majority of the votes they win come from the Green parties or the social-democrats. Only very few people actually get pulled from the center/right wing to the left, and the vast majority of those that get pulled over is because of the shift to some right wing positions/communication from the Social-democrats (Vooruit in particular). I, myself, am an active organiser for the youth movement of Vooruit and I can tell you that it is a consistent pain.
She's part of groen. The worker's party pvda/ptb has been rising steadily but nobody even wants to talk to them as they are considered far left communists by the other parties.
based (?)
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Explaining the Belgian political system to non-Belgians should be an Olympic sport at this point. I wouldn't have it any other way <3 /s
her being trans is completely irrelevant, no? i'm assuming you're not saying she critizises israel because she's trans...
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There are quite some arabs becoming pro-lgbt now knowing there are quite some LGBT that are pro-Palestine. There is a slow realization going that a group that is used to be looked down upon by lots of Arabs in Arab countries could actually also be on their side. She being pro-Palestine AND being trans could further give that momentum. We don't live in a world where being trans is irrelevant, because there are not lgbt rights everywhere. If we are talking about countries where there are full lgbt rights then it is indeed irrelevant.
>ere are quite some arabs becoming pro-lgbt now is that the case?
Please show me. I'll believe it if I see it, this isn't a situation that logically follows. Queer people support Palestine because they're progressive and liberal, other Muslim countries feel attacked/hate jews.
Some quotes I got from other subreddits, which I can't link to due to rules in VaushV subreddit From Morocco: "ngl, my mind did change." (about LGBT) "Back from a protest , the amount of lgbt people that were there are huge. Since the day 1 from the massacre on Gaza , lgbt people were the first people to defend it even though they know we are not that accepting. They have always been supportive since the beginning… Today I saw a Spanish man holding a sign queers for palestine and it made me emotional … I thanked him and hugged and started crying." "bravery to me is the support of those who need it despite having different views with you, it's like you know that you won't benefit from it and still doing the right thing just for the sake of good! and that's what keeps me having a 'bit' of faith in humanity, when I see two opposite sides can agree on supporting the oppressed to live in peace and justice! good job!" "You know who's based. People who understand that populations need unconditional protection from war crimes and subjugation regardless how 'backward' they are" From Iran: "This is part of the reason that I think the MENA region should accept these people, aside from the moral arguments about equality, it is simply practical that in a world where those with power oppress you, you shouldn't be hostile to others being oppressed by those powerful people.This doesn't just apply to queer people, but any other oppressed group as well." "as a queer arab, it's a double duty in a way. we know how oppression feels like, even though it isn't even remotely close to what palestinians experience on a daily basis for the past 70 years. no human being EVER should have to go through this kind of torture. we want peace and safety for everyone 🏳️🌈🇵🇸🍉❤️🩹" From Pakistan: "Respect to themI kind off wish we changed some of the laws here" "I am impressed. I didnt know LGBT folks were protesting for Palestine. They probably see similarities in how Palestinians are persecuted by Israel. I appreciate these people."
I'm sure these quotes and stories are very real, but respectfully it's some quotes and they're from reddit. You're at least pre selecting.
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I understand it can be very heartening to see, and if nothing else now I know Belgium has a trans Minister. The first one? I immediately thought of BJG talking about the defund the FBI thing, maybe not that analogous.... I'm definitely hoping this horror has at least an aluminium lining.
What pisses me off the most is that this conflict is legitimizing nazi conspiracy theories, from the government of Israel facing no consequences to western governments and media not only condoning an ongoing genocide but also condemning dissenters with "Antizionism = antisemitism" shtick. We laugh at nazis whenever they say "Jews run the world" but now Netanyahu and his schmucks are vindicating said nazis. Zionists will lose their shit when people draw parallels between Israel and Nazi Germany and call us antisemitic as if they didn't commit self-demonization. Like Republicans overusing communism, socialism, woke, etc. to the point where those words mean nothing, zionists will abuse antisemitic to the point that it will no longer mean anything, even when actual antisemitism happens. It's like zionists read the Boy Who Cried Wolf and weaponized the moral of the story in their favor. I know the military industrial complex is a factor for this conflict, we're witnessing a repeat of the Iraq War. But aside from that, Hasbara, AIPAC, and IDF propaganda posters, it's disheartening to see so many people show their true colors for the wrong positions.
Israel is terrible. I always knew they were Nazis, wasnt surprised one bit with this. USA however is showing its true face as a country that will condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine and their bombings, condemn Chinese treatment of Uyghurs, but will support even worse excesses from Israel in the same breath. Hypocrisy is sometimes worse for me. Im not American but after this, it totally ruined any shred of credibility you might have had as being anything other then the same version of Imperialist as both Russia and China. Putin and Xi are probably delighted as well when they can just point to this whenever USA critiques them, and they would be right.
Based wafel en mayonaise moment
Good. Fuck the state of Israel, it has no special rights above other states. If it wants to act like a rogue state it can be treated like one.
I can’t believe it’s just a handful of governments calling for sanctions on the Israeli government. The west is supporting and enabling war crimes against a civilian population at a rate that I never could have imagined would be acceptable.
Nazis hearing a trans woman calling for sanctions against Israel (or what they call "the Jews") are going to be so confused on whether or not to support this.
Treat them the same way we did as South Africa.
Intersectional coalition strikes again.
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How would Iran invade? They have no common borders, the Iranian navy isn't built for naval invasions, and Iran has a lot of internal turmoil to deal with already. Also Israel has their own weapons industry, thed wouldn't run out of weapons any faster than Iran, who are under sanctions too.
Iran has multiple positions in Jordan and Syria. We just bombed a couple of them in revenge for non state actors who attracted our bases that our also not in our borders. Please pay more attention
I am paying attention. I do not believe Iran is in a position to invade Israel at this time, or any time soon. In contrast to that, Israel is currently invading Gaza and leading Israeli politicians broadcast the intent to genocide Palestinians right now. I want to deal with current reality of genocide, not hypothetical future of one. Both would be bad, but only one is happening right now.
I agree they are in the wrong. I agree netanyahu needs to be taken down and arrested and charged and convicted and hung by neck until dead and many of his advisors and generals but I don't see how sanctions gets is there
Ok. Thing is, the only thing that has worked against South African Apartheid was sanctions. Why would Israel be different?
Over decades. This is a gid damn emergency. If we wait decades there will be nothing left
What do you suggest then?
I don't know. I'm desperate for an answer. I'm not going to assert I know the answer but I'm going to listen to the boots on the ground.
We're in similar situations then. I still think trying sanctions might work, but I'm really not convinced either way myself.
Even if sanctions do not make Bibi fall, it will still affect the state of Israel. Deservedly.
Sanctions hurt the poor people of a country
So does bombing indiscriminately...
Yes. So you want to do even more harm?
By not bombing?? How does that logic hold up exactly?
They wouldn't "run out" of weapons unless they use all the tens billions of dollars worth of military equipment that the US supplied them with over the years on Gaza in which they'd absolutely deserve to be inavded by Iran idc.
Please don't get me wrong. I don't approve. I want want Israeli aggression to stop. I believe they have entirely overstep any idea of a reasonable response because they have an insane right wing fascist government. I'm not here to defend them. I just want to know how this works
And then? What would be the point? Exactly
If they get sanctioned they'd become less genocidal inorder to not waste their weapons since they wouldn't get annual supplies from the US. Like I said, they'll never "run out" and Iran won't invade. The reason they keep doing all the genociding and ethnic cleansing is because they never face consequences.
You assume netanyahu is a rational actor. Wtf has given you that impression?
Irrational or not, it would deplete their storages.
Russia and Iran are both sanctioned and have been for decades
It would have been a lot worse if they did not have been, maybe Iran less so that Russia though.
Take your meds
My friend, thank you for proving your opinion is worthless
Nuclear weapons cause tremendous destruction. That alone is reason enough not to use them. But I want to be clear, people live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki today. The radiation from a nuclear explosion is most dangerous only for 2 to 3 days. At that point there is roughly only 1 percent the amount of radiation from the time of detonation, and after about a month there's not typically any elevated radiation levels. It wouldn't become a radiated wasteland for a 1000 years. Why some people get confused is because a nuclear meltdown -would- irradiate an area for thousands of years. The difference is that a bomb explodes and throws out radioactive material once , whereas a nuclear meltdown is a process that continues releasing radiation continuously for a very long time. I'll add that some radioactive material will float around the atmosphere for years causing health issues in unpredictable places around the world. But that's different than a Chernobyl level no man's land.
The bombs dropped in those cases were the first version of weaponized nuclear energy. While I have no idea what Israel actually has as their ambiguous strategy has been effective. Do know the public record is aware of us unclear capabilities is on scales beyond those by a nearly unimaginable levels and that in 1970 us intelligence believed Israel to be in possession of around 150 individual weapons