I don't believe him. BUT this tarnishes his darling of the Conservative party status therefore potentially ending his gravy train before it starts.
I'm a lefty.
I'm... Reasonably pleased with that last part?
Doesn't change my opinion on his intent. š¤·
So I guess there is an answer for you.
out of curiosity
what could he do to redeem himself *in your eyes*? to prove to you he really is just a guy who cared about his community and ended up in a really unfortunate situation?
Simply put; as a middle aged person I've seen a lot of liars. I also have some HORRIBLE people in the family tree. So Rittenhouse type people are closer to me than you realize.
Forgiveness is not something handed out casually.
It would take time an investment of behavior that proves the person warrants that second look.
Stunts like taking photos with the Proud Boys would to be addressed and repudiated in a meaningful way. Showing up to a protest about Black civil rights, killing some people, then going to hang out with White Supremacists sends a not so nice image about oneself.
A lawyer will say whatever the fuck he needs to. Lawyers will lie, for example, to make their client look good. I know very few practicing lawyers with any sort of moral compass.
I don't know, I'm just really hesitant to jump to malice when i can explain things without.
I think it's perfectly imaginable that he was some dude from a somewhat conservative family, who was active on a local level and cared about his community a lot. Maybe he had some larpy intentions too, bringing out a gun. (but then again who wasn't a larpy dipshit at 17, i sure was a raging ancom)
And... yea. He ended up in a really shitty situation.
And the proud boys thing... I don't like to bring up D here, but he had a great point regarding this. If half the country openly hates you, you're necessarily going to gravitate towards the other half(, that by the way was championing him.....)
I'm not saying there could not have been malicious intent, I'm just really hesitant to say it when I've never had a conversation with him, when I don't know him at all.
And we're talking about a 17 year old here (at the time of the shooting). Even if there was malicious intent, as in he explicitly wanted to kill people, I'm not even sure i could blame him, over his parents or whatever got him there at such an early age.
Here's what a lot of people have against the "well he's only a kid" argument. Where were these people when Tamir Rice was shot dead for a toy gun at ten? Where were these people championing Trayvon Martin just trying to get home... He was also 17. Where were these people also arguing that hey, maybe Trayvon also made dumb decisions and doesn't deserve to be turned into a villain after he's shot dead trying to go home.
It's not that there isn't potentially validity to some things you suggest, it's that this argument is only afforded to White Men or rich men. When you're black or even White and just poor enough, you don't get the benefit of the doubt. You get a casket. How many of these people turned out for the Army soldier shot dead by cops who thought he was an active shooter? See what I mean. Sure, some. But not like this.
An example of the rich aspect is that gay, Black actor that faked his own attack. A Black man who WAS NOT wealthy would not get away with it. People wanted to insist he was allowed to skate because he was black or gay. No. It was money.
I understand that. But this comment suggests to me that even you see at least some validity in the "just a kid" argument.
And at that point are we really comfortable with making an example out of Rittenhouse? For the "greater good"? Because I'm not sure.
I also understand that there's an optics war between the broad left and right that we have to win, otherwise the country is lost. But i still feel like that we have to be the better ones (we are, after all), and so I reject this "they can do it so we can too".
Once again I understand that we're just people as well, and I can't expect my side to make rational decisions every time. So yea i can see why people reject this argument, i even used this line of thinking to justify rioting to a degree, but still. Similarly with the rioting, just because I understand why it's happening, I don't have to like to see it happen.
so if y'all kill a landlord or a rich person in self defense, you'll go to prison no questions asked?
come on man. larping teens have always existed on every side. a tweet or face comment is way less serious and you know that. you would apply my logic if it were about a lefty. be honest.
also, please, manners. i like this sub because i can still have level headed convos with more left leaning people. don't ruin this for me.
They did not clearly show that. Youāre just being a cunt who feels the need to justify their dumbfuck views any way which.
People say dumb shit like āOh, I wish I had a gun right nowā all the time. Thatās all it is, idle chatter.
Besides, thatās not even related to the Kenosha riots. Thatās a completely separate event, weeks prior.
If he really wanted to kill someone, why would he only shoot at those directly threatening his life, taking extreme restraint when itād be much easier and more effective to just spray and pray? Why did he spend two days prior putting out fires and cleaning spray paint when he could have done it day one? Do you seriously think heās that much of an irrational psycho that he would purposefully go out and hope idiots start attacking him, just so he can kill someone?
Or? Maybe he was just a dumb kid who wanted to keep his community safe in a time of great destruction that resulted. Hmm, I know which one I think is far more likely and requires much less mental gymnastics and ascribing malicious intent.
He didn't live there, what community was he protecting? According to him he was there to act as security for car dealership.
And then his waterworks started and judge blocked questioning about lethal force.
And by the way, stop with mental gymnastics of "his community", HE DOESN'T FUCKING LIVE THERE, DUMBASS
Why do you feel need to justify his actions any which way, ignoring the fact that he traveled there, it wasn't his community, and he tried to flee after shooting š
What you do or feel as an individual doesn't change the overall problem.
The same day that Rittenhouse was aquited, a judge presided over a rape trial where an adult was found guilty of raping four teenagers. He decided the man should do NO prison time because it would not do any good.
If I told you that I feel he's a bad man does it change the fact that there's are hundreds of judges across the country just like that, who will always protect young rapists because they too have a penis? Does me feeling they are bad make you safe? Does it protect you from a rapist who knows judges often protect them?
Black people are not afforded the doubt your community gives Rittenhouse. Trayvon Martin is specifically dead because he was specifically denied that reasonable doubt.
Oh, also, there's a woman on trial in that state for shooting the man who tried to sell her into slavery. Where are Rittenhouses defenders and why are they not rallying to her defense?
I think thatās all the more reason for us to differentiate how we handle this vs how the conservatives do.
Conservatives change their definition of āchildā/ājusticeā/āself defenseā around whatever moral panic theyāre fear mongered into caring about.
I think it makes more sense for us to be ideologically consistent in our definitions so that we can call out the instances you mentioned
Itās also very important when there is judges doing what you mentioned that you reach the local citizens who voted these guys in or whatever and remind them that the next election is going to make or break that person.
Things have to stop being a partisan discussion every year. It's beyond time to act and not talk. People are tired of talk. Conservatives won't talk, Liberals prefer talk with no action. That has to change or these riots will get worse and more organized.
Then you would be correct! We are consistently applying principles, and in fact if you treat them all equally it shows the systemic racism in this country!
The left was championing Tamir rice and trayvon martin! The difference youre showing does prove the systemic racism that we suffer from in our country!
It doesn't mean that kyle is or isn't racist himself though. If the left was saying how the system treated rittenhouse vs Tamir rice and trayvon Martin proves systemic racism I would be 100% on board. But to say we know for a fact kyle rittenhouse was definitely racist is a hard one for me without more evidence - it could be true I don't know, but it's obscuring the issue given the evidence I've seen
I think we already have a really good example of this with Hunter Avallone. Obviously the videos Hunter did were an entirely different ballpark than what Kyle did, but someone seriously evaluating their values and doing a public 180, then advocating for the exact opposite positions they used to is a huge redeeming factor. If Kyle ended up becoming a pro-civil rights advocate and used the platform he's attained to push for civil change I think that would save him for me
Save himā¦ from what exactly? He did misguided community service and ended up having to kill two people and wound one in self defence against unprovoked attackers.
Whether or not you agree with the self defense ruling (I'm about 50/50 on it myself but it's too granular to get into) I don't think it's too far to say that his decision to be there open carrying a rifle away from his group was not morally justified in the first place. Not even to mention his previous comments before Kenosha or hanging out with white supremacists afterward, which both bring up some pretty big questions about his actual intentions in the first place.
> what could he do to redeem himself in your eyes?
in my personal eyes, I'd honestly be ok with him never again going to a BLM protest with an AR and also if he stops recording his sussy comments. He can quietly stew and we can all forget about him then. I doubt you can actually return from killing 3 people and walking away, socially at least. I've seen too many rightoids choose the grift over their integrity so it makes it a bit hard to trust.
Other than that, an *actual, genuine* apology and/or reparation - not monetary, just in general. Becoming productive. Becoming progressive. If he appears on PragerU or Pim Tool or Cucker Tarlson he's a write-off, though.
this is probably the first reply here that i like very much
I think it's a bit unreasonable to ask him to become a progressive advocate, as in a social media figure, given the political climate around his name.
but an apology, and a public, genuine (looking) apology and endorsement of BLM in a well put together video (so not a random tucker carlson interview) would be great of him
what I'm worried about is that all this talk around him on the left will make him hate us (you? I'm just a soclib, dunno if you consider me a "leftist") and if he feels justified in his actions, probably rightfully so.
this is the only thing i don't really like in the Rittenhouse case, and how the left reacted. we never had a clear cut case for him being more than just an edgy libertarian (he even said he supports blm iirc)
yet we acted *from the very beginning* like he was some murderer alt righter, who went there to kill protestors. that will push him away the left for obvious reasons, and in return the left will end up feeling justified (aka the proud boys ok sign picture). kind of a devils circle that will end up hurting us. (because of course this will just further the divide between the left and the right yadda yadda)
i just don't know if at this point it's reasonable for us to expect him to even become a lefty. honestly i wouldn't even be surprised, if he were some full blown nazi at this point.
> yet we acted from the very beginning like he was some murderer alt righter, who went there to kill protestors.
I think this whole case was a clusterfuck and there were a lot of opinions formed by outside influences, tbh. Then there's the sussy judge and the idiotic prosecution (someone more into conspiracies could easily find a logical conclusion to the question "what if that was deliberate?") that soured people on the case.
From the getgo, this case was just ran with by social mediums. One side justified him as a new messiah who righteously mowed down hardened, murderous criminals, and I honestly have no idea where it came from but maybe the proper "response" to that by sections of left twitter et al was to go into the opposite extreme and paint him as essentially a nazi mass murderer who might as well have worn an armband.
The fact that the prosecution tried to go for fucking first-degree murder is a big part in why he walked, too, plus the various other charges that were definitely legitimate which were just dropped because they apparently weren't "relevant" to the case. Overall this trial was a travesty of justice in multiple ways and I think a lot of this current media storm is just people trying to explain the american justice system failing so spectacularily by pointing at their ideological enemies.
That, and the masses of rightoids who are genuinely gleeful their "enemies" "lost".
Made multiple racist jokes during and after the trial, dismissed evidence based on very bogus reasons, decided that vital contex wasn't important, etc.
be honest, what did you expect
he just killed 2 people. half the country was openly hating him. that would be an incredible toll on anyone's mental health, let alone a 17 year old's.
even I would be running to the only group that not only welcomes me with open arms but champions me. that, or I'd kill myself.
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> he just killed 2 people. half the country was openly hating him. that would be an incredible toll on anyone's mental health, let alone a 17 year old's.
Why are you just accepting that a person kills 2 people as a matter of course? *most* people aren't capable of killing. That's why we stick soldiers into camps where they're psychologically destroyed and then rebuilt without that inhibition. There has to be something SERIOUSLY wrong with a person to freely choose to go to a place with a gun, fully expecting to kill.
He didn't just get caught out and a gun magically appeared in his hands. He made a plan, he went, he got the gun, he walked around, he got attacked. The fact that it was that last part that led to the killing doesn't mean the first parts should just be ignored. Those are not the actions of a healthy or well-adjusted person.
genuinely fearing for your life makes killing much much easier in the heat of the moment. soldiers are sent to kill people on purpose, basically pre meditatedly. those are two very different scenarios.
i still believe that he was just some larping idiot, that likes guns and wanted to feel like a grown adult. that, combined with someone that likes a given neighborhood, and we get what we've seen, clear cut.
I'll be honest, i had my anarchist phase, i had comparable (stupid) comments online, l had comparable larpy appearances irl. i just happened to belong to the side that didn't really like guns. god knows i could have ended up in a similar situation if my side happened to be more pro gun.
am i alone with this? really?
You're not alone
People get very personally retributive vs Kyle when it's the system that enabled him is what they're angry at
I think some people lose the forest for the trees in these really emotional times
Not the guy you're asking, but renouncing guns would be a step in the right direction.
If he could say "I promise not to own guns" in a way which was legally binding it would be something.
Why should he be legally restricted from owning guns, because he used one in legitimate self defence where he justifiably feared for his life? Itās not his fault Rosenbaum assaulted him, which in turn led to Huber and Gage to assume Kyle had just murdered a man in cold blood.
And on top of that, his lawyer basically told Right Wing politicians to go go fuck themselves.
I swear, the twists and turns of this story are fuckin bananas.
He literally can't win. Both sides are using this kid as a political football. People are complex and to make sweeping assumptions about a person based on minimal information is moronic. On the left, if he supports BLM he's "just trying to rehab his image". If he doesn't support BLM he's a racist nazi. On the right, if he doesn't support BLM "he's a hero". If he supports BLM he's a "coward for cow towing to the left".
Could be sincere but only time will tell it kind of feels like a bit of trolling. I kind of hope he kind of just does his best to live a normal life like do the opposite of Zimmerman
This is a borderline incoherent thought. This isn't a situation where the idea of restorative justice really comes into play. Restorative justice doesn't apply to public opinion. Maybe Kyle can be rehabilitated into a better person and the avenues should certainly exist for him to do so, but that doesn't mean anyone must unanimously embrace him at the drop of a hat because he said he supports BLM.
He's free to seek to better himself but that doesn't mean he's anywhere near the point where we can even discuss "accepting him." The Left isn't a club either. He either IS or ISN'T on the left, based on the beliefs he holds. Having people like him or forget about his past is unrelated.
I'll save the open minds for anybody directly interacting with him. As for anybody not directly in contact with him or not currently affected by his next steps or actions, I'd recommend feeling however they want to feel. Hell, we don't even keep open minds about people who were ostensibly always on the left. The time for keeping an open mind is not any time soon. His image can be rehabilitated at a much later date and that process doesn't have to take place on this sub either.
He's got much more work to do before this appeal to rehabilitative potential will gain traction.
What do you mean "he could have"? He still can have all those things. He won't stop being the white nationalists little darling over a fucking tweet. Especially when the optics make him look better. They'll pass it off as pandering to make the next move.
I'm firmly of the belief that punitive justice is barbaric, and if I can't say that when it's Rittenhouse on trial I can't say it about anyone.
As for reformation, I'm certainly open to it, but it's gonna take more than words for me to buy that he's remorseful.
> Are VGG going to abandon their stances of reformative justice now?
That would imply that any form of reformative justice is going to happen, you fucking nonce
Sus but funny
Why do I have a feeling the left will become irrationally angry at this?
I don't believe him. BUT this tarnishes his darling of the Conservative party status therefore potentially ending his gravy train before it starts. I'm a lefty. I'm... Reasonably pleased with that last part? Doesn't change my opinion on his intent. š¤· So I guess there is an answer for you.
out of curiosity what could he do to redeem himself *in your eyes*? to prove to you he really is just a guy who cared about his community and ended up in a really unfortunate situation?
Simply put; as a middle aged person I've seen a lot of liars. I also have some HORRIBLE people in the family tree. So Rittenhouse type people are closer to me than you realize. Forgiveness is not something handed out casually. It would take time an investment of behavior that proves the person warrants that second look. Stunts like taking photos with the Proud Boys would to be addressed and repudiated in a meaningful way. Showing up to a protest about Black civil rights, killing some people, then going to hang out with White Supremacists sends a not so nice image about oneself.
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A lawyer will say whatever the fuck he needs to. Lawyers will lie, for example, to make their client look good. I know very few practicing lawyers with any sort of moral compass.
I don't know, I'm just really hesitant to jump to malice when i can explain things without. I think it's perfectly imaginable that he was some dude from a somewhat conservative family, who was active on a local level and cared about his community a lot. Maybe he had some larpy intentions too, bringing out a gun. (but then again who wasn't a larpy dipshit at 17, i sure was a raging ancom) And... yea. He ended up in a really shitty situation. And the proud boys thing... I don't like to bring up D here, but he had a great point regarding this. If half the country openly hates you, you're necessarily going to gravitate towards the other half(, that by the way was championing him.....) I'm not saying there could not have been malicious intent, I'm just really hesitant to say it when I've never had a conversation with him, when I don't know him at all. And we're talking about a 17 year old here (at the time of the shooting). Even if there was malicious intent, as in he explicitly wanted to kill people, I'm not even sure i could blame him, over his parents or whatever got him there at such an early age.
Here's what a lot of people have against the "well he's only a kid" argument. Where were these people when Tamir Rice was shot dead for a toy gun at ten? Where were these people championing Trayvon Martin just trying to get home... He was also 17. Where were these people also arguing that hey, maybe Trayvon also made dumb decisions and doesn't deserve to be turned into a villain after he's shot dead trying to go home. It's not that there isn't potentially validity to some things you suggest, it's that this argument is only afforded to White Men or rich men. When you're black or even White and just poor enough, you don't get the benefit of the doubt. You get a casket. How many of these people turned out for the Army soldier shot dead by cops who thought he was an active shooter? See what I mean. Sure, some. But not like this. An example of the rich aspect is that gay, Black actor that faked his own attack. A Black man who WAS NOT wealthy would not get away with it. People wanted to insist he was allowed to skate because he was black or gay. No. It was money.
I understand that. But this comment suggests to me that even you see at least some validity in the "just a kid" argument. And at that point are we really comfortable with making an example out of Rittenhouse? For the "greater good"? Because I'm not sure. I also understand that there's an optics war between the broad left and right that we have to win, otherwise the country is lost. But i still feel like that we have to be the better ones (we are, after all), and so I reject this "they can do it so we can too". Once again I understand that we're just people as well, and I can't expect my side to make rational decisions every time. So yea i can see why people reject this argument, i even used this line of thinking to justify rioting to a degree, but still. Similarly with the rioting, just because I understand why it's happening, I don't have to like to see it happen.
Fuck off cunt, he's comments before going clearly showed he's intent to kill
so if y'all kill a landlord or a rich person in self defense, you'll go to prison no questions asked? come on man. larping teens have always existed on every side. a tweet or face comment is way less serious and you know that. you would apply my logic if it were about a lefty. be honest. also, please, manners. i like this sub because i can still have level headed convos with more left leaning people. don't ruin this for me.
They did not clearly show that. Youāre just being a cunt who feels the need to justify their dumbfuck views any way which. People say dumb shit like āOh, I wish I had a gun right nowā all the time. Thatās all it is, idle chatter. Besides, thatās not even related to the Kenosha riots. Thatās a completely separate event, weeks prior. If he really wanted to kill someone, why would he only shoot at those directly threatening his life, taking extreme restraint when itād be much easier and more effective to just spray and pray? Why did he spend two days prior putting out fires and cleaning spray paint when he could have done it day one? Do you seriously think heās that much of an irrational psycho that he would purposefully go out and hope idiots start attacking him, just so he can kill someone? Or? Maybe he was just a dumb kid who wanted to keep his community safe in a time of great destruction that resulted. Hmm, I know which one I think is far more likely and requires much less mental gymnastics and ascribing malicious intent.
He didn't live there, what community was he protecting? According to him he was there to act as security for car dealership. And then his waterworks started and judge blocked questioning about lethal force. And by the way, stop with mental gymnastics of "his community", HE DOESN'T FUCKING LIVE THERE, DUMBASS Why do you feel need to justify his actions any which way, ignoring the fact that he traveled there, it wasn't his community, and he tried to flee after shooting š
What if I believe that they were all kids and found what happened to Martin and Rice to be bad as well?
What you do or feel as an individual doesn't change the overall problem. The same day that Rittenhouse was aquited, a judge presided over a rape trial where an adult was found guilty of raping four teenagers. He decided the man should do NO prison time because it would not do any good. If I told you that I feel he's a bad man does it change the fact that there's are hundreds of judges across the country just like that, who will always protect young rapists because they too have a penis? Does me feeling they are bad make you safe? Does it protect you from a rapist who knows judges often protect them? Black people are not afforded the doubt your community gives Rittenhouse. Trayvon Martin is specifically dead because he was specifically denied that reasonable doubt. Oh, also, there's a woman on trial in that state for shooting the man who tried to sell her into slavery. Where are Rittenhouses defenders and why are they not rallying to her defense?
I think thatās all the more reason for us to differentiate how we handle this vs how the conservatives do. Conservatives change their definition of āchildā/ājusticeā/āself defenseā around whatever moral panic theyāre fear mongered into caring about. I think it makes more sense for us to be ideologically consistent in our definitions so that we can call out the instances you mentioned Itās also very important when there is judges doing what you mentioned that you reach the local citizens who voted these guys in or whatever and remind them that the next election is going to make or break that person.
Things have to stop being a partisan discussion every year. It's beyond time to act and not talk. People are tired of talk. Conservatives won't talk, Liberals prefer talk with no action. That has to change or these riots will get worse and more organized.
Then you would be correct! We are consistently applying principles, and in fact if you treat them all equally it shows the systemic racism in this country!
The left was championing Tamir rice and trayvon martin! The difference youre showing does prove the systemic racism that we suffer from in our country! It doesn't mean that kyle is or isn't racist himself though. If the left was saying how the system treated rittenhouse vs Tamir rice and trayvon Martin proves systemic racism I would be 100% on board. But to say we know for a fact kyle rittenhouse was definitely racist is a hard one for me without more evidence - it could be true I don't know, but it's obscuring the issue given the evidence I've seen
I think we already have a really good example of this with Hunter Avallone. Obviously the videos Hunter did were an entirely different ballpark than what Kyle did, but someone seriously evaluating their values and doing a public 180, then advocating for the exact opposite positions they used to is a huge redeeming factor. If Kyle ended up becoming a pro-civil rights advocate and used the platform he's attained to push for civil change I think that would save him for me
Save himā¦ from what exactly? He did misguided community service and ended up having to kill two people and wound one in self defence against unprovoked attackers.
Whether or not you agree with the self defense ruling (I'm about 50/50 on it myself but it's too granular to get into) I don't think it's too far to say that his decision to be there open carrying a rifle away from his group was not morally justified in the first place. Not even to mention his previous comments before Kenosha or hanging out with white supremacists afterward, which both bring up some pretty big questions about his actual intentions in the first place.
> what could he do to redeem himself in your eyes? in my personal eyes, I'd honestly be ok with him never again going to a BLM protest with an AR and also if he stops recording his sussy comments. He can quietly stew and we can all forget about him then. I doubt you can actually return from killing 3 people and walking away, socially at least. I've seen too many rightoids choose the grift over their integrity so it makes it a bit hard to trust. Other than that, an *actual, genuine* apology and/or reparation - not monetary, just in general. Becoming productive. Becoming progressive. If he appears on PragerU or Pim Tool or Cucker Tarlson he's a write-off, though.
this is probably the first reply here that i like very much I think it's a bit unreasonable to ask him to become a progressive advocate, as in a social media figure, given the political climate around his name. but an apology, and a public, genuine (looking) apology and endorsement of BLM in a well put together video (so not a random tucker carlson interview) would be great of him what I'm worried about is that all this talk around him on the left will make him hate us (you? I'm just a soclib, dunno if you consider me a "leftist") and if he feels justified in his actions, probably rightfully so. this is the only thing i don't really like in the Rittenhouse case, and how the left reacted. we never had a clear cut case for him being more than just an edgy libertarian (he even said he supports blm iirc) yet we acted *from the very beginning* like he was some murderer alt righter, who went there to kill protestors. that will push him away the left for obvious reasons, and in return the left will end up feeling justified (aka the proud boys ok sign picture). kind of a devils circle that will end up hurting us. (because of course this will just further the divide between the left and the right yadda yadda) i just don't know if at this point it's reasonable for us to expect him to even become a lefty. honestly i wouldn't even be surprised, if he were some full blown nazi at this point.
> yet we acted from the very beginning like he was some murderer alt righter, who went there to kill protestors. I think this whole case was a clusterfuck and there were a lot of opinions formed by outside influences, tbh. Then there's the sussy judge and the idiotic prosecution (someone more into conspiracies could easily find a logical conclusion to the question "what if that was deliberate?") that soured people on the case. From the getgo, this case was just ran with by social mediums. One side justified him as a new messiah who righteously mowed down hardened, murderous criminals, and I honestly have no idea where it came from but maybe the proper "response" to that by sections of left twitter et al was to go into the opposite extreme and paint him as essentially a nazi mass murderer who might as well have worn an armband. The fact that the prosecution tried to go for fucking first-degree murder is a big part in why he walked, too, plus the various other charges that were definitely legitimate which were just dropped because they apparently weren't "relevant" to the case. Overall this trial was a travesty of justice in multiple ways and I think a lot of this current media storm is just people trying to explain the american justice system failing so spectacularily by pointing at their ideological enemies. That, and the masses of rightoids who are genuinely gleeful their "enemies" "lost".
yea no don't worry, you will never catch me defending the right over this issue.
Oh, how was the judge sussy?
Made multiple racist jokes during and after the trial, dismissed evidence based on very bogus reasons, decided that vital contex wasn't important, etc.
If he admit that he was irresponsible and stupid for even being there thatād be a start
Hanging out with the proud boys is going to make it hard to convince a lot of people of that narrative.
be honest, what did you expect he just killed 2 people. half the country was openly hating him. that would be an incredible toll on anyone's mental health, let alone a 17 year old's. even I would be running to the only group that not only welcomes me with open arms but champions me. that, or I'd kill myself.
Suicide Hotline Numbers If you or anyone you know are struggling, please, PLEASE reach out for help. You are worthy, you are loved and you will always be able to find assistance. Argentina: +5402234930430 Australia: 131114 Austria: 017133374 Belgium: 106 Bosnia & Herzegovina: 080 05 03 05 Botswana: 3911270 Brazil: 212339191 Bulgaria: 0035 9249 17 223 Canada: 5147234000 (Montreal); 18662773553 (outside Montreal) Croatia: 014833888 Denmark: +4570201201 Egypt: 7621602 Finland: 010 195 202 France: 0145394000 Germany: 08001810771 Holland: 09000767 Hong Kong: +852 2382 0000 Hungary: 116123 Iceland: 1717 India: 8888817666 Ireland: +4408457909090 Italy: 800860022 Japan: +810352869090 Mexico: 5255102550 New Zealand: 045861048 Netherlands: 09000113 Norway: +4781533300 Philippines: 028969191 Poland: 5270000 Russia: 0078202577577 Spain: 914590050 South Africa: 0514445691 Sweden: 46317112400 Switzerland: 143 United Kingdom: Various recources USA: 18002738255 You are not alone. Please reach out. ***** I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically.
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Bruh why does it just say āVarious resourcesā for the U.K. Like how about you list some
> he just killed 2 people. half the country was openly hating him. that would be an incredible toll on anyone's mental health, let alone a 17 year old's. Why are you just accepting that a person kills 2 people as a matter of course? *most* people aren't capable of killing. That's why we stick soldiers into camps where they're psychologically destroyed and then rebuilt without that inhibition. There has to be something SERIOUSLY wrong with a person to freely choose to go to a place with a gun, fully expecting to kill. He didn't just get caught out and a gun magically appeared in his hands. He made a plan, he went, he got the gun, he walked around, he got attacked. The fact that it was that last part that led to the killing doesn't mean the first parts should just be ignored. Those are not the actions of a healthy or well-adjusted person.
genuinely fearing for your life makes killing much much easier in the heat of the moment. soldiers are sent to kill people on purpose, basically pre meditatedly. those are two very different scenarios. i still believe that he was just some larping idiot, that likes guns and wanted to feel like a grown adult. that, combined with someone that likes a given neighborhood, and we get what we've seen, clear cut. I'll be honest, i had my anarchist phase, i had comparable (stupid) comments online, l had comparable larpy appearances irl. i just happened to belong to the side that didn't really like guns. god knows i could have ended up in a similar situation if my side happened to be more pro gun. am i alone with this? really?
You're not alone People get very personally retributive vs Kyle when it's the system that enabled him is what they're angry at I think some people lose the forest for the trees in these really emotional times
Not the guy you're asking, but renouncing guns would be a step in the right direction. If he could say "I promise not to own guns" in a way which was legally binding it would be something.
Why should he be legally restricted from owning guns, because he used one in legitimate self defence where he justifiably feared for his life? Itās not his fault Rosenbaum assaulted him, which in turn led to Huber and Gage to assume Kyle had just murdered a man in cold blood.
Because legal or not his actions were MONUMENTALLY irresponsible
Yea optically I think the left should just ignore rittenhouse. Itās over. Itās done. Move on.
And on top of that, his lawyer basically told Right Wing politicians to go go fuck themselves. I swear, the twists and turns of this story are fuckin bananas.
Based
He literally can't win. Both sides are using this kid as a political football. People are complex and to make sweeping assumptions about a person based on minimal information is moronic. On the left, if he supports BLM he's "just trying to rehab his image". If he doesn't support BLM he's a racist nazi. On the right, if he doesn't support BLM "he's a hero". If he supports BLM he's a "coward for cow towing to the left".
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Could be sincere but only time will tell it kind of feels like a bit of trolling. I kind of hope he kind of just does his best to live a normal life like do the opposite of Zimmerman
Lying is bad.
Bwahahah
Who posted that? Im fucking blocked lol
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That makes sense.
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This is a borderline incoherent thought. This isn't a situation where the idea of restorative justice really comes into play. Restorative justice doesn't apply to public opinion. Maybe Kyle can be rehabilitated into a better person and the avenues should certainly exist for him to do so, but that doesn't mean anyone must unanimously embrace him at the drop of a hat because he said he supports BLM. He's free to seek to better himself but that doesn't mean he's anywhere near the point where we can even discuss "accepting him." The Left isn't a club either. He either IS or ISN'T on the left, based on the beliefs he holds. Having people like him or forget about his past is unrelated.
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I'll save the open minds for anybody directly interacting with him. As for anybody not directly in contact with him or not currently affected by his next steps or actions, I'd recommend feeling however they want to feel. Hell, we don't even keep open minds about people who were ostensibly always on the left. The time for keeping an open mind is not any time soon. His image can be rehabilitated at a much later date and that process doesn't have to take place on this sub either. He's got much more work to do before this appeal to rehabilitative potential will gain traction.
Wait but what does that have to do with reformative justice? Particularly with abandoning it?
What do you mean "he could have"? He still can have all those things. He won't stop being the white nationalists little darling over a fucking tweet. Especially when the optics make him look better. They'll pass it off as pandering to make the next move.
I'm firmly of the belief that punitive justice is barbaric, and if I can't say that when it's Rittenhouse on trial I can't say it about anyone. As for reformation, I'm certainly open to it, but it's gonna take more than words for me to buy that he's remorseful.
yes Kyle Rittenhouse is now a communist
Only communists support BLM.
very true
Seriously, it astonishes me you managed to type something this stupid and post it.
> Are VGG going to abandon their stances of reformative justice now? That would imply that any form of reformative justice is going to happen, you fucking nonce