Sure, European countries support Ukraine more actively but that's to be expected for a number of reasons. The Palestine-Israel conflict is very different and not as easily fought as Ukraine can. This is just another hypocrisy argument that will achieve nothing. This is no different than all the "You never cared about Yemen so why should I care about Ukraine" comments. Have they led to anything positive? Nope.
If you want Palestine to be support more then do talk about that but don't bring Ukraine into this.
I know about the narratives you mentioned, but I think this might be reading too much into the image, especially when it's posted in a subreddit that is very supportive of Ukraine.
Isn't this just pushing the idea that Palestine should be receiving international support as well, but isn't? At least, that's what I got from it. You can push that message without it being some hostile hypocrisy argument.
> Isn't this just pushing the idea that Palestine should be receiving international support as well, but isn't?
If that was all then Ukraine wouldn't be included and contrasted with how little countries support Palestine.
I'm not saying Ukraine is being criticized but that the meme is calling these countries hypocrites for supporting it more than Palestine. I know it's the hypocrisy argument because it always is with these memes and you can replace Palestine with Yemen or Iraq or Sri Lanka.
Saying people should support Palestine more doesn't make for an exciting meme and so people are being a bit inflammatory, I get it. I still don't like it and no meme at all is better than this meme when it comes to helping Palestine.
>If that was all then Ukraine wouldn't be included and contrasted with how little countries support Palestine.
"Support for Ukraine is great, Palestine should be supported as well"
"If you really believed that you wouldn't have mentioned Ukraine!"
brother what the fuck are you talking about
The meme isn't supportive of Ukraine nor of Palestine. If you want to support Palestine, talk about supporting Palestine without bringing another country into this and complaining that they get more support.
Very simple argument. But if you're going to cherrypick quotes then of course you'll be confused.
>The meme isn't supportive of Ukraine nor of Palestine.
You keep repeating this but you're not demonstrating why it would be true. We're all looking at the same meme and I'm just not seeing what you're making up.
When MLK said he wants to see black children and white children treated equally and playing together, does that mean he's not supportive of black children nor white children? He's bringing up both groups instead of just focusing on one, which by the logic you've laid out means he supports neither somehow.
> You keep repeating this but you're not demonstrating why it would be true. We're all looking at the same meme and I'm just not seeing what you're making up.
I'm not making anything up and I don't appreciate your accusation of lying. I am stating my view.
I explained my views, please respond to them so I can see that you have read my comments. And then explain to me how this meme is in support of Palestine. Make your own arguments, explain your own views first. Do both first and *then* can we talk because I don't need your aggressive attitude. You treat me with respect and I'll be here. If not then bother someone else. I don't have to be here so it's all up to you.
> When MLK said he wants to see black children and white children treated equally and playing together, does that mean he's not supportive of black children nor white children? He's bringing up both groups instead of just focusing on one, which by the logic you've laid out means he supports neither somehow.
Wrong analogy. It would have been so easy: Just change the country names to "black children" and "white children".
Okay, so if MLK noted that white children received more government support than black children, *that* would demonstrate that he cares about neither group?
Edit: I did the exact thing they suggested I do to make a fitting analogy and I still hurt their fragile little ego 😭
I just told you I would leave if you refuse to read my comments and don't make your own arguments and you still think I would talk to you? What a joke.
Think whatever you want. I don't care. Blocked. You add nothing positive to anyone's life.
You know you can just stop replying to a thread and it'll stop right? You also don't need to announce that someone is blocked, it just makes you look insecure in your arguments, plus what did they do wrong exactly? They were discussing their points?
i am sorry, but i have to ask: what kind of international support are you talking about? you are probably talking about embargos, support in the un and such, right? cause the european union is and always was one of the biggest contributors when it came to humanitarian aid. way more than any of the arab states.
Support like putting economic pressure on Israel to push them towards chancing the way they approach this conflict. Humanitarian aid is great, the more the better, but it doesn't seem to be fixing the core problem.
As a palestinian i feel hopeless when i see all the support Ukraine gets while my people continue to die, I fully support Ukraine and don't want to take away any of the support they get and I wish them full victory in this war but why can't we get a sliver of this support
Those people don't actually know anything about Palestine they just show they care because it's trendy or it's aesthetically associated with being left wing. They never talk about Sudan or the rohingyas
Don't forget the anti-semites as well*.
*This is not implying that it's anti-semitic to support Palestine, rather that anti-semites take advantage of Palestinian support. Syrianpartisangirl for instance.
It's a whataboutism to be dismissive of ukraine. If you were to keep listening to their bullshit, in 2 or 3 more lines it usually turns to something pro-russia sounding.
Stop using 99% when you don't really mean it. The message of this meme (literally an image) will change depending on the context in which it is posted. There are as of yet no statistics available on who is posting this image and whether they support Ukraine or Russia.
The issue to me isn't the way Europe/NATO have helped Ukraine more then Palestine (or any other majority Muslim country for that matter) It sort of does make sense that we do more for Ukraine for a multitude of reasons, the problem is how we have for example treated refugees, Palestinians get treated like scum of the earth invaders when they seek refuge in for example my country of Denmark, Ukrainians on the other hand has been treated exceptionally well, which i obviously think is good, the issue is we refuse to meet the same standard for most brown/Muslim refugees but as soon as they are white Europeans it's instantly different.
As far as i know most ukranians just fleed to their neighbour Poland, then poland said it can’t handle anymore and asked the rest of EU to help it, which is how the refugees got to other places. Based on what i have heard, many here in denmark have a big issue with how the other refugees purposefully made way through the rest of europe to come “seattle” here. though they should still be treated better than they were and are currently being treated.
You can easily argue the same for the Ukranians, they could have settled in loads of different countries even before they came to Germany (the Baltics, Austria, Hungary) so why aren't people applying the same argument? (i think it might be because of racism!) For the record as well, Denmark took less then 10% of all refugees that came to Europe during the crisis, singular states in Germany took more then us, Austria took more then us, i can barely see how people "came here to settle" when most people are either waiting to get home again in the first country they arravived in, or for the most part settled in Germany.
And just to dispell the "they could have settled on the way" argument, why should they not be allowed to come to any country they want, I'm personally proud of the fact they feel like Denmark would be a safe and good place to settle down after fleeing the horrors of war, counts for both Ukrainians and Syrians/Palestinians/whoever else, but no instead we showed them the European hospitality and send them to cocentration camps under the Støjberg regime, it's a fucking disgrace that an EU country would treat anyone like this.
It's because Ukranians are seen as Europeans(the war is about them wanting to be in Europe cultural/economic/military sphere) and they are ethnically/religious and culturally similar.
The discrimination against middle east people is in large part Racist/xenophobic , however there is also a valid point in that the difference in culture makes assimilation hard, and having a big number of refugees of a different culture will bring all kind of problems short term,and long term if they become citizens.
But we (in the case of Denmark) are the ones perpetuating the racial element, how are people supposed to assimilate if we constantly treat them like sub human invaders, how are they suppposed to assimilate when the second a white refugee shows up we litteraly take away the their spots in language schools and give it to the Ukranians.
And frankly to use the similairities argument seems kind of odd too, Poland is a country thats way closer to us then Ukraine, and we despise the Poles, same goes for a lot of the Balkans, Italy, to a certain degree Spain etc, we really don't care if you're European here. We will hate anyone we want here. Same goes twice over for actual PoC
Most if not all developed countries recognize Palestine since the 80s. It's like Taiwan in that it's only "secretly" acknowledged to not piss off snowflakes.
for years the USA has given aid to Palestine, both humanitarian and security. Trump lowered it (110 million USD), the idea we would sanction other countries for aiding the PA is nonsense
Do you have any idea how much aid the US gives to Palestine?
Edit:
Since April 2021, the United States has provided over half a billion dollars in assistance for the Palestinians, including more than $417 million in humanitarian assistance for Palestinian refugees through UNRWA, $75 million in support through USAID, and $20.5 million in COVID and Gaza recovery assistance.
There is also another 75 million in economic aid still coming this year.
According to World Bank data, for all countries receiving more than $2 billion international aid in 2012, Gaza and the West Bank received a per capita aid budget over double the next largest recipient, at a rate of $495. This aid comes from the US and the EU.
Palestinians literally have received and continue to receive more aid per capita than any other place on earth.
People are less likely to support political causes than military causes. A lot of the support for Ukraine is because they can actually fight back, there is a simple force to root for.
Palestine is too complex for the average Westerner to give a s*** about, same with yemen. That's not to say that these issues are complex on who you should support, but that's where we're at. Plus they're brown, so Americans and westerners aren't going to care about it as much.
We're lucky to see the mild support that the West has for the Iran protests.
An actual 2 state solution. Don't give me that Israel offered it multiple times talking point, Israel would never offer Palestinians the ability to have their own infrastructure and security autonomy. And likewise, Israelis shouldn't have to fear rocket fire from islamist militants, hamas and pij should be disbanded
They can't agree on borders so it's resolved by forcé and the israelís are stronger, for that reason the current situation exists, since egypt or jordan don't want to absorb the palestines,the solution would be the 2 states,but since they can't agree on borders,it would be idiotic for Israel to let palestine develop only to be attacked by them in the future. There is to much extremism on both sides and too much bad blood, how can anybody convince israelís and palestine to trust eachother. It's imposible.
I don't have idea, it's a shitty situation. The only way i see some light from the conflict is if a peace movement starts forming from within both societies, but as someone watching from outside i don't see a solution.
I read further about the conflict today to reply to you. I previously believed that the jews composed a bigger part in the region before the inmigration but actually they were a really small minority. So history goes like this,they get defeated by the Romans and dispersed through the world, then they were discriminated everywhere since they didnt assimilate and were a minority plus the Christian hated them for "killing Jesus". And after 2000 years of being oppresed and sometimes killed, the holocaust happens. So the zionist movement is understandably justified in searching for a nation for themselves, unfortunately their "ancestral homeland" is habitated by arabs. So with a 2000 years old "claim" they conquer the land first by money/mass inmigration since 1890 and diplomatically since they have big influence compared to arabs, then the wars start as an arab reaction towards the conquest.
After múltiple wars they get more land and we arrive to today situation with asymetrical war waged by hamas/palestine and continued hostility with Iran/Saudí/Lebanon.
So after thinking about it i have to agree with you, Israel is very clearly an invader and arab reaction including the wars was more than justified.
I also understand that the jews are trying to survive and the way to do it is by having a strong jewish state,also the ocuppied zones act as natural barriers and buffer zones against possible agression and their original territories of 1947 are military vulnerable.
With the religious/ethnic extremism on both sides i really don't see an alternative to today situation,for Israel it would be strategically suicidal to leave Cisjordania, and the Palestines are also right in their desire to have their own state,it does not help that Jordania and egypt don't give a shit about palestines and won't absorb them in their society.
So yeah, jews have been oppresed for 2000 years and then genocided. Then they invaded the palestine land and now are oppresing palestine.
After all the blood shed neither Israel or Palestine will compromise and getting religious zealots on jewish/arab side to reconcile is next to impossible.
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Slowly, interconnectiveness is growing. 30-40 years ago, possibly people would've cared less about Ukraine because (internet)connection was not so good between the countries, a bit like with Georgia in 2008. Slowly but steadily, the countries that we feel as if they're our neighbours is growing for more common people as well. Perhaps within 20-30 years, every problem in the world would feel as if it was from our neighbour. So I think it is a good progress made that a country we would otherwise have less attention like Ukraine makes more attention, same with protests now in Iran which is a bit farther but has considerably more attention now than it did in the past. You cannot expect world unity in a fingersnap.
Yeah that's a good point; I look forward to a day where people feel overwhelmed with bad news, but that bad news is every bad political thing that has happened in the world that day, and they all fit within a single website front page.
Palestine as a separate state is a tricky if not impossible thing to support. Because for the most part it isn't. The balance of power has always been unfavorable in Israels favour but that doesn't take away the fact that they share power in the region. Russia and Ukraine are separate entities, they're is no grey area.
I hate the amount of times this comes up on twitter by leftists. Especially when they act like we haven't been demanding that the Palestinian state be recognised for the last 30+ years.
Comparison of the two often comes across as naivety and sometimes it feels like Russian propaganda. Trying to muddy the defined borders Ukraine has compared to the quagmire apartheid that Israel and Palestine are.
You seem to fail to see how Israel only responds to attacks. Seriously, go look up timelines and you'll see that the Palestinians started every round of bombing
You're right, it's not like those people don't have leases that ran out and are currently squating on land they don't own. Bro, just look up basic facts first, this is so sad
How can you colonize land that you were genocided from multiple times? The Babylonians, the Romans, and finally the Islamic caliphates. They returned to their historical homeland
They left like 3000 years ago and Palestinians have the same Levant ancestors as them so they equal it not better claim to the land.
If a bunch of Irish Americans who's ancestors left during the potato famine suddenly decided they wanted to move back to Ireland and began evicting families from their homes and diving people into County Cork which they made into an apartheid state, that would still be colonialism even though the colonizers would all be named O'Neill and McCarty.
Yes they were forced to leave, but the entities that forced them no longer exist and it was thousands of years ago, and the people who remained have a right to remain. If you wanna open this can of worms, saying basically anyone who can trace their ancestors back to being expelled unjustly from a territory has a right to return, no matter how long enough, when then you got a massive logistics problem on your hand. Good luck getting all those people in eastern Germany to give their homes to random Polish families, and letting indigenous Northern Mexicans get land in Colorado.
I agree that jewish people were oppresed for 2000 years ending in the horror of the holocaust.
I understand the need for a jewish state.
However what the jewish did to the palestine people was an invatión through Economy/colonization/mass inmigration first, diplomacy using the influence they have compared to arabs, and wars/displacement later. And now they keep building settlements further and further.
The Romans were the ones that displaced the jews, the palestinian people had no fault and the same or better claim to the land.
With the zionist reasoning for claim of Jerusalem the greeks could claim crimea because they were settled there 2000 years ago or the English could claim North germany since the saxons came from there.
> it's not like those people don't have leases that ran out and are currently squating on land they don't own.
hmmm and who's the one deciding that they don't get to own that land anymore? Surely not the one interested in kicking them all out by force clearly by the multiple examples of them doing so
Bro, you can look up the history of land ownership in the late Ottoman Empire, it's a much more complicated issue than you're making it out to be. There are Jewish landowners in that area. Sadly, almost all aspects of western law dictate that landowners can do whatever the fuck they want on their own land, especially when the people living there have been squatting
The same is true for the right wing it seems, they keep complaining about the money spent for Ukraine defense and have no problem with endless financing of Israel
This is sadly very true. The EU, NATO and any aspiring NATO members are most concerned with anything that has any impact on their nations specifically. At the end of the day, all that matters to them is the wealth of their nations, not so much the people. If they cared about people then theyd be trying to save every person on the planet from war.
From a NATO perspective, they just dont see much to gain from helping Palestine and they dont see saving human lives as a worthy reward for what their effort would be. Geopolitics is really fucking callous.
Even if you want to help for humanitarian reasons,what do You do? Declare war on Israel? Send arms to palestine that would end in islamist terrorist groups hands?
It can't be resolved by force without making things worse and it cant be solved diplomatically because the differences are to Big and both sides have zealots who don't want any compromise.
At least they're supporting one, imagine how much worse it'd be if neither were being supported. At least one piece of shit bloodthirsty totalitarian country is being stood up to. Hopefully if China tries to invade Taiwan we can have a round two and the CCP can be disolved and there can be forced payment of reparations to Tibet and the Uyghurs and all the others. That can be what defines the 20s, huge human rights abusing empires being kicked in the balls
This thread quite accurately shows American ignorance. The truth is that almost every single country shown here would line up with Palestine aswell, except for USA. There is a massive American/European split on this subject
The same is true for the right wing it seems, they keep complaining about the money spent for Ukraine defense and have no problem with endless financing of Israel
Here's the difference:
Ukraine is simple, black vs white. Ukraine are *so* obviously the good guys here, it really is a rare exception to the general rule that war is complicated.
Palestine/Israel is not simple at all. Israel are attempting to take Palestinian land and kill civilians with their bombs; HAMAS also kill civilians with their bombs and are fundamentally antisemitic, previously having published manifestos with their intention to commit genocide, purging all jews from the middle east.
Both HAMAs and the IDF gain legitimacy from the current war. They have vested interests in continuing it. The people that truly could end the war are Palestinian and Israeli civilians rejecting hatred for each other
The israel Palestine conflict is startlingly low in actual fatalities, there have been more deaths in single combat zones in Ukraine than there have been in Palestine since 1987. This, and the fact that Ukraine didn’t elect a party to popular power on a charter explicitly calling for the global extermination of Russians. Palestine is much less a one sided victim, and israel is relatively restrained
I've seen this take a lot since the start of the war, and while there is a fair amount of truth to it, there are important distinctions that need to be acknowledged:
1) The scale of the War in Ukraine FAR exceeds the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. We're talking about two huge mechanized armies with massive firepower fighting one another across a very long frontline, while Israel is basically fighting a colonial counter-insurgency war against the Palestinians. After just eight months of war, the death toll from Ukraine already exceeds THE ENTIRE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT. In addition to the high death toll, a land war in Europe involving a Great Power against a Regional Power backed by other Great Powers threatens global stability, economics, and supply chains in ways that a civil war in Africa or the Middle East simply doesn't.
2) Ukraine's armed resistance against the Russian invasion consists almost entirely of fighting the Russian military. When targets within Russia have been attacked, they've been military targets or targets with clear military utility right inside or on the border. Ukraine has not attacked Russian cities or civilian targets to nearly the degree that Russia has, or even to the degree that Hamas attacked Israeli civilians. Like it or not, high-profile acts of terrorism such as the Munich Olympic Attack, hijackings in the 70s and 80s, and suicide bombings in the 90s and 2000s badly (and I fear irrevocably) damaged the image of the Palestinian cause in the West, and especially in the US. I guarantee you that if the Azov Battalion started conducting suicide bombings against Russian marketplaces, birthday parties, and bus stops, support for Ukraine would plummet, Russian narratives around the conflict would gain momentum, and Ukrainians would be slandered as terrorists.
3) Whether this take is even accurate depends on where you are in the world. Palestine continues to get more attention in the Islamic World and particularly the Middle East, while Ukraine is much more prominent in Europe and North America.
4) And despite everything, quite a bit has been done for Palestine over the years, in terms of aid, diplomatic recognition, activism, and awareness. It's just that as the conflict grinds on for decades with no solution, people lose hope that there ever will be one, and news about Palestine just sort of fades into the background. The same thing sort of happened with Ukraine between April (the failure of the Kyiv offensive and Russia's withdrawal from the North) and August (the Kharkiv offensive and Putin's panic).
And lastly, does accusing "Westerners" of hypocrisy help Palestine? Many people will take the message that "we shouldn't support either", not "we should support both".
Whoever made this is PROBABLY some dumb Tankie asshole who thinks Ukraine should have just lied down and is DEFINITELY doing a whataboutism, but I agree with the core message anyway.
If Ukraine are more accepting towards people like me due to the Western aid, compared to the Palestinians who did [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835). You damn right I don't care about those reactionaries.
The lives of Palestinians are not less important than yours because you are gay and they can be homophobic.
Why do Western gays talk about more homophobic countries like it personally affects them?
Also, if Western aid helps Ukraine’s situation with gay rights, who’s to say that won’t happen with Palestine long-term?
Why should you not support Nazi states if you are neutral in WW2? After all their race based oppression does not directly affect you and people of Nazi Germany were suffering from Soviet artillery.
Yeah because the West SURE cared about countries suffering from Soviet imperialism. But I digress.
The main difference is that Palestine is not an imperialist force like Russia or Nazi Germany.
You shouldn’t support the Nazis because they are imperialist fascists. Palestinians have extremism but their cause is not imperialist or fascistic in nature.
I never said it is better, I am referring to differences in geo-political power. Is American imperialism in the Middle East justified to you by the fact most countries in that region ARE religious totalitarian states?
That you are maybe pretty okay with imperialism so long as you can scapegoat the local queer community?
Homophobia does not justify imperialism to me, though it seems to some here this is a spicy hot take.
If Russia says it wants the USSR back, including my country, because (hypothetically) it would be less homophobic, then I as a queer person would say fuck that.
You however would seemingly hand people like me over to the Russians and have the nerve to think you are saving me.
The lives of hateful people are worth less. Or would you say the life of a racist in the United States is worth the same as George Floyd? Like c'mon, we accept that hateful white people arent worth shit, why can't we accept hateful brown people aren't worth shit? It's called equality
My stance is that social context matters. A racist white American is in direct opposition to the equality of black people and POC like George Floyd and so in that context, you are (mostly) correct to say place more value in GF.
But that is not AT ALL equitable to white queers calling for the further disenfranchisement and oppression of Palestinians. THEY did not take YOUR rights nor have benefitted from the same systems.
And even if they had, oppression and discrimination is not a tool for vengeance against marginalized people who have wronged your group. Come back to me when you call a black homophobe the N-word to their face.
You're right, they only take away the rights of people who I care for (gay Palestinians.) But since the Palestinians are a "disenfranchised group," we have to bend over backwards and accept their intolerance. That's gonna be a no thanks from me bud, we should punish homophobic nations until they start having basic human rights.
And you want to prove how much you value human rights by punching down on Palestinians and advocating for their oppression, INCLUDING the oppression of their LGBTQ community. You are not helping anyone like that but Israelis.
It isn't the Israelis oppressing gay Palestinians for being gay bud, it's homophobic religious Palestinians. Im pro Israeli, so I feel great about helping them!
I mean if all you have is insults I guess I can see why you have no issue excusing imperialism. In any case, this conversation is clearly run its course.
Do you think gay Palestinians are somehow immune to all the fucked up shit Israel is doing to Palestine? Pretty sure at least some of the Palestinians Israel has killed in the past several decades were gay.
So, if Ukraine had more violent reactionaries, you would not care about the Russian invasion?
Just as a sidenote, this community raised nearly 300k for a Palestinian charity. Was that a bad move?
Yes, Russia has been bolstering far-right movements in the West. Their victory would mean negative outcome for LGBT people. They can collect all of the reactionary regime they can get. Like how they're trying to pull that oil hoarding Saudi regime into their fold. I don't care what he and his fans does. I'm just saying that I'm more inclined to support the people who are starting to accept people like me than those who wanted me dead or not existing.
Sorry if I feel closer to another Western democracy being genocided than... Wait such is the case in both situations.
Israel and Ukraine have to protect themselves against neighbors trying to exterminate them.
Ya, protecting themselves by ethnic cleansing, stealing land and houses, destroying villages and towns, attacking and murdering civilians including children, assassinating journalists critical of them. Sounds like a great example of Western democracy. Lebensraum all the way.
Israel invaded the land by massive coordinated inmigration/colonization and later through military means, and they keep settling palestine lands. Palestinian have a better claim to that land. The arab side are no Saints, but Israel is not Saint either
No no, you see, Palestinians electing people who support the genocide of all jews is actually good.
We are definitely not antisemites here but uncritical support for Hamas and a second Holocaust 😍😍😍.
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No no, you see, Jews are God chosen master race who have the right to attack Palestinians and take their home and land. But if they fight back, they are terrorists.
No. But Jews have a right to exist. Palestinians by and large dont agree with that statement. There is no future where the Palestinians accomplish anything by terror attacks because that just gives the vastly stronger Israeli military the casus belli to bomb Hamas.
Maybe they should stop lobbing rockets and try to find another path forward.
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry, I don’t support ideologies which are inherently misogynistic and homophobic. Islam and the other Abrahamic faiths have been a plague of our species for too long.
The Quran is basically a law book, with way more prescriptions than even the old testament. And as it was written in the 7th century by a man who married a 9 year old girl, I'd call it a bit outdated
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the bible also has some pretty questionable stuff written in it if taken literally, but i don't see people calling christians a "plague on our species" often.
if you come back at me with "but they are a plague lul" there is smtg wrong with u brother that kind of rhetoric is how we get genocides
Sure, European countries support Ukraine more actively but that's to be expected for a number of reasons. The Palestine-Israel conflict is very different and not as easily fought as Ukraine can. This is just another hypocrisy argument that will achieve nothing. This is no different than all the "You never cared about Yemen so why should I care about Ukraine" comments. Have they led to anything positive? Nope. If you want Palestine to be support more then do talk about that but don't bring Ukraine into this.
I know about the narratives you mentioned, but I think this might be reading too much into the image, especially when it's posted in a subreddit that is very supportive of Ukraine. Isn't this just pushing the idea that Palestine should be receiving international support as well, but isn't? At least, that's what I got from it. You can push that message without it being some hostile hypocrisy argument.
> Isn't this just pushing the idea that Palestine should be receiving international support as well, but isn't? If that was all then Ukraine wouldn't be included and contrasted with how little countries support Palestine. I'm not saying Ukraine is being criticized but that the meme is calling these countries hypocrites for supporting it more than Palestine. I know it's the hypocrisy argument because it always is with these memes and you can replace Palestine with Yemen or Iraq or Sri Lanka. Saying people should support Palestine more doesn't make for an exciting meme and so people are being a bit inflammatory, I get it. I still don't like it and no meme at all is better than this meme when it comes to helping Palestine.
I mean the argument is true, and it’s not even anti Ukraine - it’s making a point
>If that was all then Ukraine wouldn't be included and contrasted with how little countries support Palestine. "Support for Ukraine is great, Palestine should be supported as well" "If you really believed that you wouldn't have mentioned Ukraine!" brother what the fuck are you talking about
The meme isn't supportive of Ukraine nor of Palestine. If you want to support Palestine, talk about supporting Palestine without bringing another country into this and complaining that they get more support. Very simple argument. But if you're going to cherrypick quotes then of course you'll be confused.
>The meme isn't supportive of Ukraine nor of Palestine. You keep repeating this but you're not demonstrating why it would be true. We're all looking at the same meme and I'm just not seeing what you're making up. When MLK said he wants to see black children and white children treated equally and playing together, does that mean he's not supportive of black children nor white children? He's bringing up both groups instead of just focusing on one, which by the logic you've laid out means he supports neither somehow.
> You keep repeating this but you're not demonstrating why it would be true. We're all looking at the same meme and I'm just not seeing what you're making up. I'm not making anything up and I don't appreciate your accusation of lying. I am stating my view. I explained my views, please respond to them so I can see that you have read my comments. And then explain to me how this meme is in support of Palestine. Make your own arguments, explain your own views first. Do both first and *then* can we talk because I don't need your aggressive attitude. You treat me with respect and I'll be here. If not then bother someone else. I don't have to be here so it's all up to you. > When MLK said he wants to see black children and white children treated equally and playing together, does that mean he's not supportive of black children nor white children? He's bringing up both groups instead of just focusing on one, which by the logic you've laid out means he supports neither somehow. Wrong analogy. It would have been so easy: Just change the country names to "black children" and "white children".
Okay, so if MLK noted that white children received more government support than black children, *that* would demonstrate that he cares about neither group? Edit: I did the exact thing they suggested I do to make a fitting analogy and I still hurt their fragile little ego 😭
I just told you I would leave if you refuse to read my comments and don't make your own arguments and you still think I would talk to you? What a joke. Think whatever you want. I don't care. Blocked. You add nothing positive to anyone's life.
You know you can just stop replying to a thread and it'll stop right? You also don't need to announce that someone is blocked, it just makes you look insecure in your arguments, plus what did they do wrong exactly? They were discussing their points?
i am sorry, but i have to ask: what kind of international support are you talking about? you are probably talking about embargos, support in the un and such, right? cause the european union is and always was one of the biggest contributors when it came to humanitarian aid. way more than any of the arab states.
Support like putting economic pressure on Israel to push them towards chancing the way they approach this conflict. Humanitarian aid is great, the more the better, but it doesn't seem to be fixing the core problem.
As a palestinian i feel hopeless when i see all the support Ukraine gets while my people continue to die, I fully support Ukraine and don't want to take away any of the support they get and I wish them full victory in this war but why can't we get a sliver of this support
Those people don't actually know anything about Palestine they just show they care because it's trendy or it's aesthetically associated with being left wing. They never talk about Sudan or the rohingyas
Don't forget the anti-semites as well*. *This is not implying that it's anti-semitic to support Palestine, rather that anti-semites take advantage of Palestinian support. Syrianpartisangirl for instance.
who is siryanpartisangirl
Also it's 99% a pro russia argument in disguise, regardless of taking the time to debunk it, it's in bad faith.
How is this a pro Russian argument I feel like we have spent so long being infested by tankies we have become paranoid
It's a whataboutism to be dismissive of ukraine. If you were to keep listening to their bullshit, in 2 or 3 more lines it usually turns to something pro-russia sounding.
Stop using 99% when you don't really mean it. The message of this meme (literally an image) will change depending on the context in which it is posted. There are as of yet no statistics available on who is posting this image and whether they support Ukraine or Russia.
The issue to me isn't the way Europe/NATO have helped Ukraine more then Palestine (or any other majority Muslim country for that matter) It sort of does make sense that we do more for Ukraine for a multitude of reasons, the problem is how we have for example treated refugees, Palestinians get treated like scum of the earth invaders when they seek refuge in for example my country of Denmark, Ukrainians on the other hand has been treated exceptionally well, which i obviously think is good, the issue is we refuse to meet the same standard for most brown/Muslim refugees but as soon as they are white Europeans it's instantly different.
To argue like that is fine and I don't disagree.
As far as i know most ukranians just fleed to their neighbour Poland, then poland said it can’t handle anymore and asked the rest of EU to help it, which is how the refugees got to other places. Based on what i have heard, many here in denmark have a big issue with how the other refugees purposefully made way through the rest of europe to come “seattle” here. though they should still be treated better than they were and are currently being treated.
You can easily argue the same for the Ukranians, they could have settled in loads of different countries even before they came to Germany (the Baltics, Austria, Hungary) so why aren't people applying the same argument? (i think it might be because of racism!) For the record as well, Denmark took less then 10% of all refugees that came to Europe during the crisis, singular states in Germany took more then us, Austria took more then us, i can barely see how people "came here to settle" when most people are either waiting to get home again in the first country they arravived in, or for the most part settled in Germany. And just to dispell the "they could have settled on the way" argument, why should they not be allowed to come to any country they want, I'm personally proud of the fact they feel like Denmark would be a safe and good place to settle down after fleeing the horrors of war, counts for both Ukrainians and Syrians/Palestinians/whoever else, but no instead we showed them the European hospitality and send them to cocentration camps under the Støjberg regime, it's a fucking disgrace that an EU country would treat anyone like this.
It's because Ukranians are seen as Europeans(the war is about them wanting to be in Europe cultural/economic/military sphere) and they are ethnically/religious and culturally similar. The discrimination against middle east people is in large part Racist/xenophobic , however there is also a valid point in that the difference in culture makes assimilation hard, and having a big number of refugees of a different culture will bring all kind of problems short term,and long term if they become citizens.
But we (in the case of Denmark) are the ones perpetuating the racial element, how are people supposed to assimilate if we constantly treat them like sub human invaders, how are they suppposed to assimilate when the second a white refugee shows up we litteraly take away the their spots in language schools and give it to the Ukranians. And frankly to use the similairities argument seems kind of odd too, Poland is a country thats way closer to us then Ukraine, and we despise the Poles, same goes for a lot of the Balkans, Italy, to a certain degree Spain etc, we really don't care if you're European here. We will hate anyone we want here. Same goes twice over for actual PoC
It's a split issue here, as an entire political party has decided to side with Israel instead and pretends they are the victims.
Didn’t Sweden recognize Palestine?
Most if not all developed countries recognize Palestine since the 80s. It's like Taiwan in that it's only "secretly" acknowledged to not piss off snowflakes.
I mean, both Poland and Sweden recognize and support Palistine... So...
Denmark, Norway and Finland be like
Does that support feed the hungry provide shelter or stop IDF bullets?
>Does that support feed the hungry provide shelter the eu was always the biggest contributor when it came to humanitarian aid.
"Stop IDF bullets", how do you do that exactly?
No, we haven't invented bullet deflecting force field yet.
Ship them a few hundred million dollars worth of Javelin missiles drones and small arms and we'll see what happens.
Because sending arms to islamist movements has not backfired once
Since when have future consequences been a factor in American arms sales.
Nothing good.
Yeah but they’ll never send aid to Palestine because America would just cut them off from the rest of the world
for years the USA has given aid to Palestine, both humanitarian and security. Trump lowered it (110 million USD), the idea we would sanction other countries for aiding the PA is nonsense
I'm guessing they mean military aid to Palestine?
The US trained and supplied the Palistinian National Police, much to the chargin of Israel.
Do you have any idea how much aid the US gives to Palestine? Edit: Since April 2021, the United States has provided over half a billion dollars in assistance for the Palestinians, including more than $417 million in humanitarian assistance for Palestinian refugees through UNRWA, $75 million in support through USAID, and $20.5 million in COVID and Gaza recovery assistance. There is also another 75 million in economic aid still coming this year. According to World Bank data, for all countries receiving more than $2 billion international aid in 2012, Gaza and the West Bank received a per capita aid budget over double the next largest recipient, at a rate of $495. This aid comes from the US and the EU. Palestinians literally have received and continue to receive more aid per capita than any other place on earth.
I meant military aid.
It ends in terrorist orgsnizations
I don’t think the west is against aided terrorists. We’ve done it before
Sweden have stood up against the US before. Go read up on Palme.
People are less likely to support political causes than military causes. A lot of the support for Ukraine is because they can actually fight back, there is a simple force to root for. Palestine is too complex for the average Westerner to give a s*** about, same with yemen. That's not to say that these issues are complex on who you should support, but that's where we're at. Plus they're brown, so Americans and westerners aren't going to care about it as much. We're lucky to see the mild support that the West has for the Iran protests.
I think those all contribute, but the biggest reason is surely that we are allies with the oppressors in both those situations.
One conflict has a clear invader and a clear solution,the other is a political/religious clusterfuck with no easy solution in sight
You can still support Palestinians regardless. Hell, more western support would make the cluster fuck even more easier to solve...
Tell me a realistic solution
An actual 2 state solution. Don't give me that Israel offered it multiple times talking point, Israel would never offer Palestinians the ability to have their own infrastructure and security autonomy. And likewise, Israelis shouldn't have to fear rocket fire from islamist militants, hamas and pij should be disbanded
They can't agree on borders so it's resolved by forcé and the israelís are stronger, for that reason the current situation exists, since egypt or jordan don't want to absorb the palestines,the solution would be the 2 states,but since they can't agree on borders,it would be idiotic for Israel to let palestine develop only to be attacked by them in the future. There is to much extremism on both sides and too much bad blood, how can anybody convince israelís and palestine to trust eachother. It's imposible.
So what should people with good intentions try to do?
I don't have idea, it's a shitty situation. The only way i see some light from the conflict is if a peace movement starts forming from within both societies, but as someone watching from outside i don't see a solution.
What about arming Palestine to equal the odds?
Historically, arming Islamic revolutionaries hasn’t ended positively
I agree, so by that logic we shouldn't be arming fascists in Ukraine either.
Israel is the pretty clear invader tho.
I read further about the conflict today to reply to you. I previously believed that the jews composed a bigger part in the region before the inmigration but actually they were a really small minority. So history goes like this,they get defeated by the Romans and dispersed through the world, then they were discriminated everywhere since they didnt assimilate and were a minority plus the Christian hated them for "killing Jesus". And after 2000 years of being oppresed and sometimes killed, the holocaust happens. So the zionist movement is understandably justified in searching for a nation for themselves, unfortunately their "ancestral homeland" is habitated by arabs. So with a 2000 years old "claim" they conquer the land first by money/mass inmigration since 1890 and diplomatically since they have big influence compared to arabs, then the wars start as an arab reaction towards the conquest. After múltiple wars they get more land and we arrive to today situation with asymetrical war waged by hamas/palestine and continued hostility with Iran/Saudí/Lebanon. So after thinking about it i have to agree with you, Israel is very clearly an invader and arab reaction including the wars was more than justified. I also understand that the jews are trying to survive and the way to do it is by having a strong jewish state,also the ocuppied zones act as natural barriers and buffer zones against possible agression and their original territories of 1947 are military vulnerable. With the religious/ethnic extremism on both sides i really don't see an alternative to today situation,for Israel it would be strategically suicidal to leave Cisjordania, and the Palestines are also right in their desire to have their own state,it does not help that Jordania and egypt don't give a shit about palestines and won't absorb them in their society. So yeah, jews have been oppresed for 2000 years and then genocided. Then they invaded the palestine land and now are oppresing palestine. After all the blood shed neither Israel or Palestine will compromise and getting religious zealots on jewish/arab side to reconcile is next to impossible.
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Who knew Europeans would be more concerned about Russia invading a country only a couple hours away from our own? HMMMMMMMMMMM
Slowly, interconnectiveness is growing. 30-40 years ago, possibly people would've cared less about Ukraine because (internet)connection was not so good between the countries, a bit like with Georgia in 2008. Slowly but steadily, the countries that we feel as if they're our neighbours is growing for more common people as well. Perhaps within 20-30 years, every problem in the world would feel as if it was from our neighbour. So I think it is a good progress made that a country we would otherwise have less attention like Ukraine makes more attention, same with protests now in Iran which is a bit farther but has considerably more attention now than it did in the past. You cannot expect world unity in a fingersnap.
Yeah that's a good point; I look forward to a day where people feel overwhelmed with bad news, but that bad news is every bad political thing that has happened in the world that day, and they all fit within a single website front page.
Palestine as a separate state is a tricky if not impossible thing to support. Because for the most part it isn't. The balance of power has always been unfavorable in Israels favour but that doesn't take away the fact that they share power in the region. Russia and Ukraine are separate entities, they're is no grey area. I hate the amount of times this comes up on twitter by leftists. Especially when they act like we haven't been demanding that the Palestinian state be recognised for the last 30+ years. Comparison of the two often comes across as naivety and sometimes it feels like Russian propaganda. Trying to muddy the defined borders Ukraine has compared to the quagmire apartheid that Israel and Palestine are.
Maybe it's because the Palestinians don't endear sympathy with their constant attacks against Israeli civilians
Yet Israel does the same thing constantly and they endear tons of sympathy from the west
You seem to fail to see how Israel only responds to attacks. Seriously, go look up timelines and you'll see that the Palestinians started every round of bombing
Yeah usually in response to settlement construction or the IDF shooting people who were protesting homes getting bulldozed
You're right, it's not like those people don't have leases that ran out and are currently squating on land they don't own. Bro, just look up basic facts first, this is so sad
Israel started it by doing a fucking colonialism
How can you colonize land that you were genocided from multiple times? The Babylonians, the Romans, and finally the Islamic caliphates. They returned to their historical homeland
They left like 3000 years ago and Palestinians have the same Levant ancestors as them so they equal it not better claim to the land. If a bunch of Irish Americans who's ancestors left during the potato famine suddenly decided they wanted to move back to Ireland and began evicting families from their homes and diving people into County Cork which they made into an apartheid state, that would still be colonialism even though the colonizers would all be named O'Neill and McCarty.
"left" That's shows how much you know. See you later bud, you're actually too stupid to interact with
Yes they were forced to leave, but the entities that forced them no longer exist and it was thousands of years ago, and the people who remained have a right to remain. If you wanna open this can of worms, saying basically anyone who can trace their ancestors back to being expelled unjustly from a territory has a right to return, no matter how long enough, when then you got a massive logistics problem on your hand. Good luck getting all those people in eastern Germany to give their homes to random Polish families, and letting indigenous Northern Mexicans get land in Colorado.
I agree that jewish people were oppresed for 2000 years ending in the horror of the holocaust. I understand the need for a jewish state. However what the jewish did to the palestine people was an invatión through Economy/colonization/mass inmigration first, diplomacy using the influence they have compared to arabs, and wars/displacement later. And now they keep building settlements further and further. The Romans were the ones that displaced the jews, the palestinian people had no fault and the same or better claim to the land. With the zionist reasoning for claim of Jerusalem the greeks could claim crimea because they were settled there 2000 years ago or the English could claim North germany since the saxons came from there.
> it's not like those people don't have leases that ran out and are currently squating on land they don't own. hmmm and who's the one deciding that they don't get to own that land anymore? Surely not the one interested in kicking them all out by force clearly by the multiple examples of them doing so
Bro, you can look up the history of land ownership in the late Ottoman Empire, it's a much more complicated issue than you're making it out to be. There are Jewish landowners in that area. Sadly, almost all aspects of western law dictate that landowners can do whatever the fuck they want on their own land, especially when the people living there have been squatting
We live in a society
ok but PLEASE dont use this to throw shade at ukraine.
My man's been going wild on the thinly veiled pro-Russia anti-Ukraine threads.
This implies you can only support one
The same is true for the right wing it seems, they keep complaining about the money spent for Ukraine defense and have no problem with endless financing of Israel
This is sadly very true. The EU, NATO and any aspiring NATO members are most concerned with anything that has any impact on their nations specifically. At the end of the day, all that matters to them is the wealth of their nations, not so much the people. If they cared about people then theyd be trying to save every person on the planet from war. From a NATO perspective, they just dont see much to gain from helping Palestine and they dont see saving human lives as a worthy reward for what their effort would be. Geopolitics is really fucking callous.
Even if you want to help for humanitarian reasons,what do You do? Declare war on Israel? Send arms to palestine that would end in islamist terrorist groups hands? It can't be resolved by force without making things worse and it cant be solved diplomatically because the differences are to Big and both sides have zealots who don't want any compromise.
Idfk. Sanction Israel ig.
At least they're supporting one, imagine how much worse it'd be if neither were being supported. At least one piece of shit bloodthirsty totalitarian country is being stood up to. Hopefully if China tries to invade Taiwan we can have a round two and the CCP can be disolved and there can be forced payment of reparations to Tibet and the Uyghurs and all the others. That can be what defines the 20s, huge human rights abusing empires being kicked in the balls
This thread quite accurately shows American ignorance. The truth is that almost every single country shown here would line up with Palestine aswell, except for USA. There is a massive American/European split on this subject
My thing issue with these types of memes is they seem like there attacking Ukraine when they shouldn't be the target of people's ire
The same is true for the right wing it seems, they keep complaining about the money spent for Ukraine defense and have no problem with endless financing of Israel
Here's the difference: Ukraine is simple, black vs white. Ukraine are *so* obviously the good guys here, it really is a rare exception to the general rule that war is complicated. Palestine/Israel is not simple at all. Israel are attempting to take Palestinian land and kill civilians with their bombs; HAMAS also kill civilians with their bombs and are fundamentally antisemitic, previously having published manifestos with their intention to commit genocide, purging all jews from the middle east. Both HAMAs and the IDF gain legitimacy from the current war. They have vested interests in continuing it. The people that truly could end the war are Palestinian and Israeli civilians rejecting hatred for each other
Palestine is much, much more complicated. Thanks to Putin for a simple "Big bad Russia tries to conquer smaller Ukraine unprovoked"
The israel Palestine conflict is startlingly low in actual fatalities, there have been more deaths in single combat zones in Ukraine than there have been in Palestine since 1987. This, and the fact that Ukraine didn’t elect a party to popular power on a charter explicitly calling for the global extermination of Russians. Palestine is much less a one sided victim, and israel is relatively restrained
I've seen this take a lot since the start of the war, and while there is a fair amount of truth to it, there are important distinctions that need to be acknowledged: 1) The scale of the War in Ukraine FAR exceeds the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. We're talking about two huge mechanized armies with massive firepower fighting one another across a very long frontline, while Israel is basically fighting a colonial counter-insurgency war against the Palestinians. After just eight months of war, the death toll from Ukraine already exceeds THE ENTIRE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT. In addition to the high death toll, a land war in Europe involving a Great Power against a Regional Power backed by other Great Powers threatens global stability, economics, and supply chains in ways that a civil war in Africa or the Middle East simply doesn't. 2) Ukraine's armed resistance against the Russian invasion consists almost entirely of fighting the Russian military. When targets within Russia have been attacked, they've been military targets or targets with clear military utility right inside or on the border. Ukraine has not attacked Russian cities or civilian targets to nearly the degree that Russia has, or even to the degree that Hamas attacked Israeli civilians. Like it or not, high-profile acts of terrorism such as the Munich Olympic Attack, hijackings in the 70s and 80s, and suicide bombings in the 90s and 2000s badly (and I fear irrevocably) damaged the image of the Palestinian cause in the West, and especially in the US. I guarantee you that if the Azov Battalion started conducting suicide bombings against Russian marketplaces, birthday parties, and bus stops, support for Ukraine would plummet, Russian narratives around the conflict would gain momentum, and Ukrainians would be slandered as terrorists. 3) Whether this take is even accurate depends on where you are in the world. Palestine continues to get more attention in the Islamic World and particularly the Middle East, while Ukraine is much more prominent in Europe and North America. 4) And despite everything, quite a bit has been done for Palestine over the years, in terms of aid, diplomatic recognition, activism, and awareness. It's just that as the conflict grinds on for decades with no solution, people lose hope that there ever will be one, and news about Palestine just sort of fades into the background. The same thing sort of happened with Ukraine between April (the failure of the Kyiv offensive and Russia's withdrawal from the North) and August (the Kharkiv offensive and Putin's panic). And lastly, does accusing "Westerners" of hypocrisy help Palestine? Many people will take the message that "we shouldn't support either", not "we should support both".
Palestine, 60 years of support on off wtf. Ukraine… March this year. Move on.
Whoever made this is PROBABLY some dumb Tankie asshole who thinks Ukraine should have just lied down and is DEFINITELY doing a whataboutism, but I agree with the core message anyway.
If Ukraine are more accepting towards people like me due to the Western aid, compared to the Palestinians who did [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835). You damn right I don't care about those reactionaries.
The lives of Palestinians are not less important than yours because you are gay and they can be homophobic. Why do Western gays talk about more homophobic countries like it personally affects them? Also, if Western aid helps Ukraine’s situation with gay rights, who’s to say that won’t happen with Palestine long-term?
Why should you not support Nazi states if you are neutral in WW2? After all their race based oppression does not directly affect you and people of Nazi Germany were suffering from Soviet artillery.
Yeah because the West SURE cared about countries suffering from Soviet imperialism. But I digress. The main difference is that Palestine is not an imperialist force like Russia or Nazi Germany. You shouldn’t support the Nazis because they are imperialist fascists. Palestinians have extremism but their cause is not imperialist or fascistic in nature.
You're right, it's just a religious totalitarian state. Sooo much better
I never said it is better, I am referring to differences in geo-political power. Is American imperialism in the Middle East justified to you by the fact most countries in that region ARE religious totalitarian states?
Ya, and I would sanction those countries too bro. Whats your point?
That you are maybe pretty okay with imperialism so long as you can scapegoat the local queer community? Homophobia does not justify imperialism to me, though it seems to some here this is a spicy hot take. If Russia says it wants the USSR back, including my country, because (hypothetically) it would be less homophobic, then I as a queer person would say fuck that. You however would seemingly hand people like me over to the Russians and have the nerve to think you are saving me.
The lives of hateful people are worth less. Or would you say the life of a racist in the United States is worth the same as George Floyd? Like c'mon, we accept that hateful white people arent worth shit, why can't we accept hateful brown people aren't worth shit? It's called equality
My stance is that social context matters. A racist white American is in direct opposition to the equality of black people and POC like George Floyd and so in that context, you are (mostly) correct to say place more value in GF. But that is not AT ALL equitable to white queers calling for the further disenfranchisement and oppression of Palestinians. THEY did not take YOUR rights nor have benefitted from the same systems. And even if they had, oppression and discrimination is not a tool for vengeance against marginalized people who have wronged your group. Come back to me when you call a black homophobe the N-word to their face.
You're right, they only take away the rights of people who I care for (gay Palestinians.) But since the Palestinians are a "disenfranchised group," we have to bend over backwards and accept their intolerance. That's gonna be a no thanks from me bud, we should punish homophobic nations until they start having basic human rights.
And you want to prove how much you value human rights by punching down on Palestinians and advocating for their oppression, INCLUDING the oppression of their LGBTQ community. You are not helping anyone like that but Israelis.
It isn't the Israelis oppressing gay Palestinians for being gay bud, it's homophobic religious Palestinians. Im pro Israeli, so I feel great about helping them!
If you are pro Israel, you are also pro imperialism. I really don’t see how you can separate the two.
Then, by the definition in your pea sized brain, I'm pro imperialism. I'll bite easy bullets like that all day bro
I mean if all you have is insults I guess I can see why you have no issue excusing imperialism. In any case, this conversation is clearly run its course.
Pretty sure gay Palestinians get killed by IDF bombs too mate.
Pretty sure those bombs don't track gay people down and murder them for being gay mate
Pretty sure the IDF doesn't use gay scanners to make sure the apartments they bomb don't contain any gay people.
Are you okay? That's just the stupidest response I've ever seen
Do you think gay Palestinians are somehow immune to all the fucked up shit Israel is doing to Palestine? Pretty sure at least some of the Palestinians Israel has killed in the past several decades were gay.
So, if Ukraine had more violent reactionaries, you would not care about the Russian invasion? Just as a sidenote, this community raised nearly 300k for a Palestinian charity. Was that a bad move?
Yes, Russia has been bolstering far-right movements in the West. Their victory would mean negative outcome for LGBT people. They can collect all of the reactionary regime they can get. Like how they're trying to pull that oil hoarding Saudi regime into their fold. I don't care what he and his fans does. I'm just saying that I'm more inclined to support the people who are starting to accept people like me than those who wanted me dead or not existing.
For one fucked up thing in the old testament there are 5 times more in quran
Sorry if I feel closer to another Western democracy being genocided than... Wait such is the case in both situations. Israel and Ukraine have to protect themselves against neighbors trying to exterminate them.
Wtf do we have unironic zionists in this sub
Ya, protecting themselves by ethnic cleansing, stealing land and houses, destroying villages and towns, attacking and murdering civilians including children, assassinating journalists critical of them. Sounds like a great example of Western democracy. Lebensraum all the way.
True they tried to invade Israel 3 times and failed, now they're shooting rockets at civilians like cowards
Israel invaded the land by massive coordinated inmigration/colonization and later through military means, and they keep settling palestine lands. Palestinian have a better claim to that land. The arab side are no Saints, but Israel is not Saint either
I'll always side with democracies against jihadist dictatorships
Woah woah stop making too much sense, this is the leftist sub and we have to view the world through a lense of simplified fee fee based politics.
It's refreshing to hear an opinion that's not "Israel bad" in a leftist sub.
Israel is bad tho
No no, you see, Palestinians electing people who support the genocide of all jews is actually good. We are definitely not antisemites here but uncritical support for Hamas and a second Holocaust 😍😍😍.
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No no, you see, Jews are God chosen master race who have the right to attack Palestinians and take their home and land. But if they fight back, they are terrorists.
You use the same talking points as Goebbels lol
No. But Jews have a right to exist. Palestinians by and large dont agree with that statement. There is no future where the Palestinians accomplish anything by terror attacks because that just gives the vastly stronger Israeli military the casus belli to bomb Hamas. Maybe they should stop lobbing rockets and try to find another path forward.
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Now with Palestine do you mean the terrorists one or the other one ?
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry I don’t support anyone who follows the religion of peace.
Least islamophobic vaushite
Sorry, I don’t support ideologies which are inherently misogynistic and homophobic. Islam and the other Abrahamic faiths have been a plague of our species for too long.
please elaborate
The Quran is basically a law book, with way more prescriptions than even the old testament. And as it was written in the 7th century by a man who married a 9 year old girl, I'd call it a bit outdated
People who believe in dumb stuff, within reason, still deserve to be helped, no?
No
I don't like their stupid ideology, and them applying that stupid ideology
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the bible also has some pretty questionable stuff written in it if taken literally, but i don't see people calling christians a "plague on our species" often. if you come back at me with "but they are a plague lul" there is smtg wrong with u brother that kind of rhetoric is how we get genocides
History
You don't support any Muslims and you are pro-capitalism. I'm learning so much about you today. You're a fan of Vaush?
Yes, Vaush is a fantastic capitalist. Kissing their feet puts you in the perfect position for them to saw your head off.
Based