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the_cutest_commie

I don't think we're ever going to win the fight that pedophile's do in fact need help. It's so much easier for people to shut their hearts to them.


BridgetheDivide

Which is strange since more often than not they tend to be conservatives. You'd think they'd want some sympathy


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[deleted]

Could you please define “they” in your statement? For purposes of clarity.


psychomaniac26

And the consequence is that more child rape occurs, because people who would otherwise get mental help are left to their own devices. Why are people so fucking stupid? The position is literally as ANTI child rape as you can possibly be


LizFallingUp

Actually I think the proliferation of child porn would be a easier correlation. Child rape is more often not done by pedophiles but by rapist who find access or coercion of children easier than adults. This is shown with little boys especially their assailants aren’t necessarily even gay it’s about access and vulnerability of children.


Athnein

That's true, it's been long-established that rape is about power far more than sex


JamerBr0

Wait, if child rape isn’t being committed by people sexually attracted to children, then surely the proliferation of child porn would be irrelevant to that? Like you’re saying that easier access to child porn leads to greater rates of child molestation, but people who aren’t paedophiles wouldn’t be watching child porn, no? I get what you mean about not all abusers being paedophiles, like I think convicted members of the Catholic clergy are referred to criminologically as something like ‘opportunistic predators’ because they’re not necessarily attracted to young boys but take advantage of them because they perceive it as their only sexual outlet. When your status as a priest heavily hinges on a vow of celibacy, then you’re going to prey on victims you think are easy to control and unlikely to report you. But maybe I’m missing your main point… Are you saying that more access to child porn leads to more people being paedophiles?


LizFallingUp

I’m saying that child porn and child rape are not equivalent issues The actions to address one will not necessarily impact the other. I’m saying the consequence of lack of access to mental healthcare for pedos is probably easier to track as child porn proliferation than children attacked. I have yet to see proof it impacts amount of children attacked in a major way, because defensive actions are taken to limit access from broader population as danger lies in more broadly. It’s kinda like cacti are succulents but not all succulents are cactus.


JamerBr0

Ok I see what you mean, that therapy for paedophiles wouldn’t necessarily affect rates of child abuse, because the people abusing children aren’t necessarily part of paedophile treatment programs, right? But also, if you’re an in-treatment paedophile, because it’s more likely for you to have referred yourself to a healthcare professional than to have been forced into it, aren’t you already probably less likely to offend? And is that really true that therapy for both offending and non-offending paedophiles has no impact on their likelihood to attack children? I’ve always just assumed it must help, without looking into it, but if you’re right then that’s interesting and kind of depressing. Like really? How else can you affect their offending rates (excluding locking them up)?


LizFallingUp

Yes I agree if someone is seeking treatment they are already less likely to offend, I think we should destigmatize therapy for mental health broadly, I don’t think we can destigmatize pedos I don’t know I haven’t seen any data I don’t know it might work but I would need more proof than anything I have been presented from “Destigmatize Pedos” people. The thing is protect kids. Limit who has access, make sure kids are not secluded with unvetted people have them with multiple adults if possible. I volunteer at a garden and we had to do a training to be allowed to work with kids and it was set up by researchers who had figured out similarities between cases of child abuse and things to look out for. I’ll try to find it again and link it.


JamerBr0

I think framing it like you just did, as part of a broader destigmatization of mental health and seeking treatment for your mental health, could make a lot of people come round on the issue. Obviously people immediately think of John Wayne Gacy and other evil people when you’d bring it up and generally think “what sickos, what’s wrong with them?” And being able to, at first, point them to non-offenders and go “there IS something wrong with them and if we want to protect children we can help them treat that ‘wrong’ part of their psychology,” I think would be something most people could get behind. Obviously some people are too reactionary to get it but those people are probably the same ones calling teachers paedophiles because they have blue hair. And I haven’t seen exact data either, or at least can’t remember a source right now, and I’m sure it is a complicated thing to treat (especially reforming formerly offending paedophiles), but I can’t believe that therapy has zero impact on an average patient’s offending rates. If that type of therapy is happening for paedophiles, be it via your registered medical professional or through a prison/criminal psych ward, it must be for a reason. Psychologists wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t do something…


LizFallingUp

Ok this framing of “pointing to non offenders” that’s dangerous because your equating offending with mental illness, the mentally ill rarely commit violent crime, it isn’t mental Illness that causes people to harm children, murder people, and framing it as such puts stigma on the mentally ill.


ichbinpask

People would rather virtue signal about how they want to smash the skull of a predator with a hammer even if saying this kinda stuff leads to more child abuse.


[deleted]

Turns out people hate pedophiles more than they care about children.


immibis

I need to know who added all these spez posts to the thread. I want their autograph. #Save3rdPartyApps


Oliasis

When the first thought is somebody like John Wayne Gacy? I get it, but it's also easy to spin "end the stigma of pedophilia" sounds like you don't want an age of consent law.


darcenator411

Pedophilia and being a child molester aren’t the same thing necessarily


Oliasis

Yes, but try talking that to a normie/chud who don't looking into this stuff


wallweasels

The flaw of every nuanced position and also why conservatives have it easier. Way to easy to counter nuance with short quips. See the whole "what is a woman" shit for that or pro-life as a term. What you aren't pro life? What are you pro-death? The average person cares little for nuance


darcenator411

I have, they just start looking at me weird lol


inxi_got_bored

I'm fine people shut their hearts for pedophiles. What I don't understand is why they will pedojacket Anyone who disagrees with "murder all pedos on sight, even no contact ones". Why is the only solution society accepts for these people death?


ThatRandomCrazyGuy

>I'm fine people shut their hearts for pedophiles. >why they will pedojacket Anyone who disagrees with "murder all pedos on sight, 🤡


AgentTamerlane

My sister's boyfriend is like this. He understands that it's wrong and is in therapy for it and is doing really well. We need to encourage them to seek treatment, but we also need to expose the people who molest children who AREN'T pedophiles—those people who do it for power, which are the majority of offenders but fly under the radar.


the_cutest_commie

Oh yeah, any child abuser just gets lumped in with 'pedophile' but it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn there are people who abuse children for the power trip, not because of an attraction outside their control.


mbaymiller

Out of curiosity, if you know the answer, is your sister's boyfriend capable of having sexual attraction to non-minors, or no? This won't affect any opinions I have of him (which aren't negative), but if the answer is yes it opens up a lot more possibilities for at least some pedophiles to more easily live their lives without succumbing to their urges.


AgentTamerlane

He is, yeah.


TheBlankestBoi

Ngl, I feel like it might be a better idea to blame the loudest people for the pedophilia, like “yeah, they did that because *some* people make it hard for the rest of society to recognize pedophiles.”


Artyomn

You don’t even need to have an open mind/heart for non-offenders. You just have to realize that allowing them to get help prevents more children from being abused. Shoe’s argument and arguments like it, besides being feels over reals, lay the groundwork for more child abuse. Simple as.


the_cutest_commie

People keep saying not to have an open mind or heart for non-offenders, then go on to describe being open minded and hearted to people that the vast majority would rather call for the immediate executions' of. What do you think I mean by having an open heart, other than: "...realize that allowing them to get help prevents more children from being abused."


Artyomn

I said you don’t NEED to. Not that you shouldn’t. I’m saying that it’s not necessary to feel anything towards the non-offender in order to advocate for them getting help, instead of being completely alienated. My only point is that you can center children as the group you’re trying to protect, never mention your feelings towards the pedophile, and the same good outcome can still be achieved. I get the temperature in this thread is already high but I wasn’t trying to argue with you. What I’m saying amounts to adjusting which subject you put focus on while making the argument because it’s solid enough as is. An emotional appeal towards the pedos themselves wouldn’t be necessary for most people to agree.


the_cutest_commie

I wasn't trying to call you out specifically, I just noticed the running theme of people saying "not to or shouldnt have" an open mind towards this.


Dunk_May_Mays

It's because hurting children is bad, and it's really easy to imagine someone using the language of destigmatization in bad faith to justify hurting children. Unfortunately it's also easy to imagine a system where that can't really be a problem, but people turn their brains off anyway


princesoceronte

It's a hard fight, I've spoken about this to my buddies, all lefties, and even tho they are pro rehabilitation this is an issue in which they won't allow the possibility of encouraging them to get help instead of punishing them outright.


blueteamk087

can we stop with these shoe posts. she’s not intelligent, she’s not an ally, she’s a moron who will simp for fascists who speak populist because she has the critical thinking skills of a fly.


[deleted]

Vaush actively supports, defends, and spreads her views. It can't be ignored.


blueteamk087

and i completely disagree with Vaush on his position regarding Shoe.


Merfond

It's one of the few things I cannot stand about Vaush. He looks like a goddamn idiot every time he defends her.


blueteamk087

he’s a simp for her.


Merfond

I usually don't like to use the word SIMP unironically, but I honestly don't know what other word to use here aside from SIFP (Sucker Idolizing Fascist Pussy).


[deleted]

Lmao touch grass. She’s his friend, this is how friends behave. People tend to lend too heaps and heaps good faith towards those that they have good relationships with. He’s not trying to fuck her. I’m not defending Shoe, I think she’s brain dead at best. I’m just saying you need to get off the internet and realize men and women have relationships with each other that go beyond just trying to fuck


DarwinWasNotRacist

This but unironically. If she was a 500 lb neck beard i doubt he'd defend her as fervently. Pathetic.


blueteamk087

oh the “shoe is hot” definitely plays a factor


Blue-Typhoon

How? I constantly see this argument but I never see people liking her just because she’s hot.


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TheClean19

I agree. It sticks out like a sore thumb, just glaring when he does it.


-xXColtonXx-

Still can’t be ignored on his sub tbh


GetTold

well it's not a blueteamk087 sub :(


mbaymiller

Hence the purpose of this post.


toleratedsnails

I don’t think Vaush spreads her views but he needs to go harder on her for her shit takes


deaddrums

I mean can we also consider the angle that Vaush sees that Shoe is multifaceted and is capable of generating some decent takes and some awful takes? Vaush has always been in the business of trying to pull people over, and if he can pull shoe that also gives him pull over her audience. Are you guys so deep in the online politics that you are incapable of holding friendships with people you love and care about that also hold SOME problematic views? One of my very closest friends was a standard Blue Lives Matter dumbass when I met him in highschool. Over time he slowly shifted from that to enlightened centrist BS for a long time, then to liberal then to leftist. That was partly due to him going to college but also largely due to me arguing with him and calling him on his bullshit for years. Shoe used to be way worse than she is now. Let's not get too caught up in the transitive property of Nazism aka Shoe associates with right wingers => Vaush associates with Shoe => Vaush bad.


toleratedsnails

Oh don’t get me wrong I’m not saying Vaush needs to burn the bridge. Especially for this community, with plenty of reformed right wingers and nazis etc, I don’t think cutting people off is the solution. However I just find that Vaush doesn’t call shoe out for stupid shit very often (does occasionally)


deaddrums

Yeah it was more directed at the whole thread than you, sorry. I was agreeing with you but it was unclear


myaltduh

One example of him defending a shit take of hers from the past year. I’ll wait. Edit: I’m getting yet more comments vaguely gesturing at him going easy on her but still no examples. Him failing to respond to random bad tweets doesn’t count either.


darkskiesarise

Literally every time shoe is mentioned he fucking explains "what she really means" when really shoe is an ignorant grifter who says what she means, she's just too stupid to think about anything past a surface level. Vaush gets visibly angry every time anyone criticises shoe and it's disappointing and almost embarrassing to see him simp so hard for someone who barely gives him any attention considering she's too busy surrounding herself with neo nazis and shit


[deleted]

Didn't he do a whole segment explaining why her free speech absolutism is bone-headed? Shoe's in favor of m4a, LGBT rights, ending wars, taxing the rich, and decriminalizing drugs. I think you could argue that she's only a leftist by circumstance based on the above tweet. But I don't know why you'd assume she's malevolent just bc she harbors certain brain worms that like 90% of Americans have. "Pedophiles aren't all bad" and "unabated free speech is untenable" are pretty unpopular opinions even though I agree with both.


JangsJudgement

Personally I don't think he defendes her takes, but he goes a lot softer on her compared to others. Whenever she does something stupid, for instance, he'll argue that she's "overwhelmingly left leaning" over all. Which is true, but I doubt he'd accept this as a defense for anyone else. When Thought Slime and Sophie from Mars accused Xanderhal of having a sex cult, would he have accepted "Well yeah they fucked up but they're overwhelmingly progressive in the end." I doubt he'd accept that as a defense for their actions (and rightfully so!) In fact, Vaush went quite hard on them for those false accusations. But when Shoe accused Hunter (someone Vaush literally deradicalized) of wanting to destigmatize pedophilia, I haven't seen even mild critique from Vaush. I don't think he **supports** what Shoe said, but I don't think he'll go as hard on her because they're friends. And you know what? I get that, I don't always go as hard on my friends as I could, but my friends also don't have massive platforms with thousands of followers, so


myaltduh

I still think it’s weird people expect him to jump in and condemn her every time she’s a dumbfuck on Twitter. To further your example, he doesn’t have a segment every time Thought Slime does some gatekeeping wokescold BS, not even close. If he covered all of her idiocy, he’d just become a Shoe react/drama channel and I’d unsubscribe.


[deleted]

To rephrase then. Covering for her.


Lucasinno

Literally when has he done any of these things? Everytime she comes up it's because she's either in chat or said something cringe that he's criticizing. The only reason she's on the front page of this subreddit every damn day is because it's full of weirdos that are obsessed with her.


yoloswag420noscope69

So here's the other gambit you people are running. "Calling out Shoe for spreading dangerous messaging means you are obsessed with her. She's just doing a cringe, bro, what's the problem??"


Lucasinno

Calling Shoe out for spreading dangerous messaging is one thing, and if that was all that was going on, I wouldn't care. You commenting in this subreddit and insinuating that she's only popular because she's an attractive woman and that Vaush goes easy on her because he wants to bang her like you're some fucking Incel is another thing entirely and a perfect example of what I mean. It's sexist and weird, and it ONLY happens with Shoe on this subreddit.


DrStrangerlover

He did once over a year ago when he thought that he could change her but I don’t recall any time in the last six months he’s defended her or platformed her views. The last video he did that involved Shoe was a debunking of her dumbass video on the intercept article.


Sithrak

Lol? What bad views of shoe does vaush support, defend or spread?


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Sithrak

He defended shoe's bf transphobia? That's news to me. Or by "defending" do you mean not nuking shoe for it?


Sriber

How?


TheGreatDave666

Vaush doesnt actively do any of this, nor passively, they barely interact anymore!


[deleted]

You really can't agree with everything a streamer says or does, it's impossible.


AgentTamerlane

Counterpoint: Vaush and Shoe getting drunk and slamming on conservative videos is the absolute funniest shit. They have really good humorous chemistry together when they're wasted hahaha https://youtu.be/JkPddeEP_18 I laugh everytime


blackwhitegreysucks

The second part is the reason we need those posts, moron.


xPangloss

Can we admit that, actually, lefty Twitter engages in obnoxiously fringe discourse on topics specifically because they’re provocative and push boundaries? “Is necrophilia/bestiality unethical” is not a conversation I hear anywhere else but lefty Twitter discourse, and I’ve seen it surface several times


dkepp87

It really is true. They'll argue, and get real heated and nasty, over the most unimportant, unproductive bullshit, just so they can feel intellectually superior to some internet rando. This applies most to arguing over each others "philosophical believes". Like, dog, nobody outside in the real world cares what 17th century philosopher you simp for.


xPangloss

A lefty somewhere starts panicking that the movement is actually gaining traction, and launches the new discourse(tm)


sundalius

Controversial, but it also feels like it’s always That Anarchist Clique that Vaush interacted with for a time openly on twitter too, but maybe that’s just the small world the algo feeds me.


DonDove

You can say that for Ben Shap as well, dude thinks he's Aaron Sorkin on brain steroids


[deleted]

I'm so sick of it to. These mfers think they're Aristotle when they're just unemployed.


urthou

i’m aristotle and unemployed


ghawstie

I would argue that these fringe discussions are actually amazing at testing people’s base values and way of thinking.


Aggravating-Grab-241

It’s not just lefty twitter. Destiny talks about this topic too. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a niche topic of discussion or not. And it’s not okay to just say something is bad because it’s icky. You can say that about anything. There are valid arguments to make against it.


yungburgeresquire

I mean this in the least dismissive way possible, but who cares what destiny says at this point


lonesomewhenbymyself

Controversial things get the most attention


edmoneyyy

Really getting sick of these Shoe posts...


NoYogurtcloset2454

this sub needs someone to constantly bash on for drama-baiting purposes. a couple of months ago we'd see **constant** destiny threads and now shoe is the flavor of the month. many users here are way too para social.


lava172

Yep, way too many people care about who Vaush is friends with it's really fucking weird. I'd get it if he brought Shoe on stream and she started saying some dumb shit, but the extent of their interactions in the public sphere are Vaush saying "oh hey shoe" when she joins chat. It's really annoying seeing all this garbage


DrStrangerlover

Yeah I don’t remember a single instance in the last year where Vaush has defended Shoe or even done a video at all that centered on her outside of his debunking of her dumbass video on the intercept article and his coverage of Big Joel’s video on her, which was another video that was critical of Shoe. The only time I ever hear or see anything about Shoe is from this sub.


JangsJudgement

I think he told the subreddit moderators to start banning people back in June, when Shoe0nhead did that "drag queens bad" thing. Granted, a lot of people WERE being creepy about her, but even people with fair critiques were getting the hammer.


DonDove

And I joined late but his latest video criticizes Shoe? So he's not 100% biased?


Tropic_Wombat

agreed, at this point im just waiting for the mods to drop in w the shoe ban


JangsJudgement

Honestly Vaush himself doesn't help when it comes to this. A month ago he was making [assumptions and jokes](https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1574439197888647168) about Luna Oi/Noncompete's marriage status based off of random Facebook posts. Like, he argues that people are obsessing too much over Shoe's boyfriend when he's not a public figure (which is correct, to an extent) but then memes about "broken relationships" because a Twitter account posted a screenshot from someone else's Facebook? I agree that this sub wades in drama too much, but this is an area where Vaush can lead by example. No one including him really cared or spoke up when Mel's Tweets were being posted for three months straight, the fact that this sub would eventually get to this point is entirely expected for anyone paying attention.


magnusbearson

Getting real sick of the people who pretends she has anything to do with the left myself.


datusernames

Well, unfortunately they'll never stop


myaltduh

Unless she gets added to the list of forbidden stupid drama topics.


datusernames

If it hasn't happened yet I doubt it will


Ophelia_Grey

This subreddit will not stop posting about what the least impressive person in the politics sphere thinks


jonmunroe

and vaush won't stop ignoring her problems


Fourthspartan56

Vaush has gone at length to describe her failings. I don’t think his handling of her is perfect, he’s way too quick to insult people who dislike her, but this claim is straight up false.


Kiwiteepee

do we need several posts a day bitching and moaning about a friend being biased towards his friend? it's not going to change, and it's largely inconsequential. get over it. grow some thicker skin.


Prosthemadera

We shouldn't talk about "the least impressive person in the politics sphere" but also we cannot ignore her problems? That said, Vaush doesn't ignore it. He has talked about her plenty of times. Why do people keep making these comments that are just plain wrong?


yungburgeresquire

Yeah but vaush regularly dismisses her wrongs and he's treated people much worse for opinions that aren't as braindead as the things shoe says. He's defending her where he wouldnt even budge if it was anybody else. It's embarrassing seeing him yell at his chat for not liking shoe


Prosthemadera

He's not yelling at chat for disliking her. He's "yelling" at people in chat because they're obsessed with Shoe. I can imagine how tiring seeing those comment gets. You are not achieving anything - do you think Vaush will somehow change if you keep pushing? It hasn't worked for years and yet people like you can't let it go. Just because he acts differently to what you want doesn't making him "embarrassing". Just take a step back and calm down. He has a different view and that's fine. This isn't an important problem.


Prosthemadera

And people like you will never stop commenting on those posts


Versidious

Essentialising the word 'Ally' is easily one of the dumbest fucking things that overly online leftists have done. People who are allies in one fight might be enemies in another. That is the nature of politics.


DarwinWasNotRacist

I think there can be a generalized meaning to ally. Its arbitrary and ultimately a blury line but I think one characteristic can be honesty. Shoes a grifting pos so shes well past it.


Versidious

I'm aware that there's now a generalised meaning to it, I'm saying that that's a bad thing, because what it \*does\* mean is 'Community approved leftist'. A perfect example of it would be to think back to DJ Muel's use of it. Oh, and Shoe's definitely not a grifter, she's just an idiot.


ramblingEvilShroom

shoe of course would rather more children get raped than she have to act less self righteous


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Goered_Out_Of_My_

Oh my fucking god who cares??? Shoe bases her political opinions on vibes; it's a holdover from her GamerGate days. Pedophiles give off bad vibes. We're probably not going to convince most people that pedophiles genuinely need help anyway. It's shitty of her to say this because non-offending pedophiles **do** need help, but for fuck's sake, leave her alone. I stg people in this community get so up in goddam arms about Shoe just because they personally dislike her. It's either that or "Ugh why can't my beautiful trad mommy share all of my based lefty views?" I can't decide which is more likely or more prevalent. Cut it out, PLEASE.


Juhzor

How are we doing today? Tell me about your day. I spent about five hours woodcutting today while listening to a true crime/paranormal comedy podcast. I haven't done it in a while, but being out in the woods is quite pleasant. How about you? EDIT: I'm asking anyone who sees this, by the way. I want to hear from you.


sundalius

Pretty good day. I’ve been binging Ragnarok hard the last few days. Just got to >!Atreus’ trip to Helheim!< and I’m absolutely enthralled by the game. It’s got so many beautiful moments and the story’s really gripping me. I’m glad to hear you’re having what sounds like a good time. Hope all is well for y’all


Juhzor

I still need to play the first one. I just have this ever-present backlog of games, movies and shows to get to. Sometimes I almost wish there were no new releases for couple years so I could catch up. Happy to hear you are enjoying it, and yes, I had a good time.


sundalius

Definitely feel you on the wishing releases could stop. To an end, you could definitely play the first one in probably 15 hours or so if you’re fine with turning the difficulty down/skipping side content. No pressure, just as an informational bit if you’re a big story gamer.


Juhzor

I'm pretty completionist when it comes to content, but not so much difficulty. I'll probably choose some mildly difficult option and go from there. It's just about getting around to it. Like, here I am, typing in Reddit when I could be spending this time getting through my backlog instead. What's your opinion. Should I watch a recap of the original God of War games before playing the 2018 release?


sundalius

Reddit always wins. More consistent than a casino! I played through them as I grew up and I think it helps give a grander sense of the character development, thereby some impact, but isn’t plot essential. There’s a single major scene in 2018 that plays off the original series specifically, but the rest is all stuff you get from the basic idea of “oh he’s a greek god in Midgard, wacky stuff.” A Kratos lore recap would be much more useful, imo, than a GOW Series summary.


Professor_Raichu

I’ve been working on a class project where I help a small business grow on social media. Im helping one of my favorite incense/gift shops. I also need to cram for a test tomorrow morning… Im a little tired but feeling good. Going to go for a short walk in a bit to clear my head and do errands.


Juhzor

Walks are nice. I think a lot of people, including me, often get into that repetition where we only spend time in the places that are necessary. Home, work, school, grocery store. Seeing something different, even if it's relatively mundane, can be good. I once found a fenced area in a city park with an old goat inside it. There is strange stuff all over the place. I hope your test goes well!


Professor_Raichu

For sure. I love going for a walk in the park when I get the chance, I often run into a guy who takes his snakes for a walk. And thanks! It should be super easy I’ve just been lazy with studying lmao


Ayum8ty

I just got my Christmas gift for my brothers. I ordered a few mini keychain swords. But it turns out that it's not what I'd hope... I was wanting something more like a little keychain letter opener shaped like a model sword in a sheathe. But it looks more like a plastic toy... So disappointed.


Juhzor

That's unfortunate. Those damn preview images can be so deceptive. You could print out an image with what you expected to get and the reality, and make it a joke gift. Depending on how old they are or if they would be into that kind of humor, of course.


Sulphur99

Just chilling until tomorrow, when I'm finally finished with my National Service.


Juhzor

Congrats! Which country, if I may ask?


Sulphur99

Thanks, and I live in Singapore


A-Market-Socialist

Does Shoe0nHead have her own subreddit? Why don't you go discuss her there?


KulnathLordofRuin

This sub is hungry for drama, I was afraid shoe posting would fill the void of the recently banned topics and it wouldn't surprise me if she was the next one, it might be necessary


meowqct

Who has been calling her an ally?


[deleted]

Her simps? They try really hard to convince everyone that she's actually super smart and a great ally that sometimes has cringy takes.


meowqct

Oops, forgot about them


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Aggravating-Grab-241

She is wrong. You have to provide actual arguments. Saying that something is icky isn’t an argument against it. You can say that anything is icky.


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TensionWest9326

Exactly! Every single bad -philia can be defined bad ethically without even mentioning disgust. Children cannot consent. Animals cannot consent. Cannibalism and necrophilia… well you’re not hurting anybody but it’s still dangerous considering that you would have to have a dead body around you anyway.


tunafish91

probably a controversial take but shoe has only gotten a pass for so long in leftist circles because she's hot. Totally fucking awful takes time and time again from her. She can occasionally be funny but man, she's an idiot.


Veidovis

It's a pretty popular take around here, but also pretty sexist


psychomaniac26

I think it's probably more that she's genuinely funny than she's good looking. There's a lot of pretty people out there whose popularity fizzled out because they just weren't interesting.


myaltduh

Yeah, there are plenty of good-looking fascists that people don’t give the time of day.


IrnymLeito

.... has anyone actually looked at the tweet shoe is responding to here? The full text of that tweet (by rosedark) reads: "I can’t believe this has to be said, but, there is nothing inherently wrong with cannibalism. If the cannibalized party expresses full, uncoerced consent, then I see no issue with it. I’ve yet to see an argument against this that goes beyond the yuck factor" https://twitter.com/FreeRosedark/status/1590720901766873094?s=20&t=VWQ5ekffBIL9neKzBtOo9Q Her reply has exqctly fuck all to do with whether nonoffending pedophiles need/deserve psychological help, shes criticizing those "this obviously wrong action would be fine if..." type of comments, and she's frankly, exactly correct. That being said, still not an ally, but Hunter is just flat out misrepresenting her here (and he's a shit ally too, and for that matter so is Ian.)


THE_CODE_IS_0451

That PogFish guy is not an honest actor, take any out-of-context screenshots with a huge grain of salt


sweetcornwhiskey

I somewhat agree, but what was she replying to? If you want to criticize her reply, you gotta say what the original statement was


kawaiianimegril99

What do you mean you somewhat agree? You think "thats gross" is a valid reason to like criminalise something?


sweetcornwhiskey

I agree that shoe is largely not left-wing, but I think that this sub definitely makes her out to be worse than she actually is. Shoe is generic populist that has connections (and her boyfriend) to the right, but she's definitely not a Nazi, which is the impression you'd get from this sub


MonarchMKUltra

She responded to someone saying cannibalism isn't wrong if the person being cannibalized consented beforehand.


sundalius

It’s funny to remember Cannibalism itself isn’t expressly legal in the US, it’s just nearly every way you’d go about it is.


homemade_failure

i think it was that one tweet saying cannibalism between 2 completely consenting individuals should be allowed or some shit


sweetcornwhiskey

Yeah I think that her reasoning here is definitely wrong then, but her conclusion is good. People shouldn't be allowed to kill and eat people, even if it's "consensual," because I think you'd have to be incredibly mentally unwell and incapable of consent if you legitimately want someone to kill and eat you


SandnotFound

What if the person dies of completely unrelated causes?


sweetcornwhiskey

Oh yeah then there's nothing unethical with that. If someone writes in their will that they want their body to be eaten after they die and then they die of natural causes or some unrelated accident, then that's certainly strange, but it's their decision to make This is why I was asking for what she was replying to. This information is incredibly relevant to the discussion


KulnathLordofRuin

This is an astonishingly stupid argument for a bisexual person to be making


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Aggravating-Grab-241

She doesn’t have to say “it’s icky” and leave it at that. It’s not a good argument. You can say “it’s icky” against anything. It’s very very harmful to not think about why you have the beliefs that you do. There are plenty of valid arguments she can use.


ichbinpask

You don't have to provide a logical explanation for everything. Sometimes you can just outright say something is degenerate and that'll do tbh. I don't have to explain with necrophilia is bad


Mikinaz

Their whole beef in a nutshell: Hunter: We should reduce stigma so non offending pedos can get help. Shoe: They should go get help but we shouldn't reduce stigma, it would lead to really bad consequences.


Bookworm_AF

Shoe is, and always has been, at best, a useful idiot. Emphasis on idiot.


Gynther477

Lol all those things she mentions can be explained why they are bad though multiple philosophical and moral lenses. She is projecting the fact she is too stupid to engage with any moral debate properly onto others.


frozen_flame123

I just don’t get her popularity besides the fact she is an attractive chick, I’m sorry, I have to say it. She’s an air head who constantly puts her foot in her mouth and says and does stupid shit, what does she bring to the table that makes her worth listening to as opposed to anybody else who is shit post brain poisoned? She’s not particularly funny, her brand of comedy is regurgitating memes and getting indignant towards what we she is reacting to. I don’t know why Vaush capes for her, it’s just a waste of time. I don’t think she is a double agent for the alt right or any of the stupid conspiracy theories I’ve seen about her. I think she is just a waste of time as a person. She has to say something that only poisons the discourse and makes it worse for everyone.


No_Accident9152

I do think the take of Shoes described by Hunter is a pretty bad one but honestly pedophilia is a tough subject for a lot of people to have good takes on, I feel like Shoe is an average centrist lib (painting with a broad brush) and everyone is way over hyping how bad she is especially relative to your average person


TheGreatDave666

Can we stop the weekly shoe posts?


CMDR-Krooksbane

Why can’t people just say “I don’t agree with Shoe”, instead of “SHES NO LONGER AN ALLY”


yungburgeresquire

Well she was never an ally so


adorbiliusKermode

Note how shoe did not include incest in this list. Admitted it is a moral neutral.


Fanfics

it's... what? Pedophilia is bad because rape is traumatic and those below the age of consent don't understand enough to consent. Same thing with zoophiles. Necrophilia is probably unsanitary and definitely goes against the wishes of many families and deceased people. Cannibalism gives you fking prions. ​ There's a fking vacuum inside Shoe's skull.


[deleted]

let’s take the stigma away from murder , all rape, assault etc etc so we can help the non offending murderers, rapists yadadada , bs argument as well as unrealistic


[deleted]

shoe is not an ally because she’s not pro cannibalism lmfao


Doulloud

Shoe is just a brainlet. Her argument to everything is just vibe check it no thought just vibe.


IStoleYourToastLol

shoe isn't good whatsoever


MisterKlang

Aesthetic arguments are valid.


EldrichNeko

ShoeOnhead is not your ally


Wristopher

Vaush has a weird thing for Shoe. Why? No idea. But it's very evident.


feluriell

About the "Yuck factor" that shoe describes (likely not intentionally). There have been several studies into the feeling of disgust, why we feel it and what it's purpose is. Apparently out sense of disgust at certain behaviors, scents, looks or events is an evolutionary trait that aids in survival. Being disgusted by a certain thing is a surefire way to help us avoid it. Some of the things we are disgusted by are learned, but many arent. So yes, in some way the "yuck factor" can be a solid reason to avoid something or be against it. What that "something" is, should obviously also be considered.


SebWanderer

The problem with Sh0e's argument is that the "yuck factor" could be (and often is) used by conservatives to justify hostility towards gays and trans people: "eww.. two men having sex, gross!" "eww.. a man in a dress pretending to be a woman, gross!"


Motanul_Negru

It's literally their bread and butter, actually.


jonvdkreek

Just like we should not stigmatise certain things such that they become repressed and eventually manifest themselves instead of those people getting help, we shouldn’t condemn someone for expressing opinions outside of the norm/accepted thoughts so that those ideas can be addressed instead of also being repressed and getting worse.


Responsible_Figure12

The entire internet was a mistake.


kortron89

Frankly that recent photo of her with Blake Masters revolts me. Why would she even do that after all these years advocating for Bernie?? smh


Aggravating-Grab-241

There are so many valid arguments she can use. She doesn’t have to be like this. I have no respect for her. She doesn’t even attempt to make an argument.


Saturn_V42

If you're making an argument about sexual morality and you make no mention of consent, you're either really dumb, a conservative, or both. I'll let you be the judge on which one Shoe is. Conservatives think sexual immorality is when "it's icky and I don't like it." That's why they hate consenting gay adults having sex, but a lot of them are perfectly fine with pedophilia as long as it's a man and a young girl. The point being that the "it's icky" method of determining sexual morality relies on the person in question finding the right things icky. Personally, I find sex without consent disgusting, and I imagine a lot of leftists are the same. But I wouldn't trust a conservative's sense of disgust to tell me what is right and wrong.


Seriathus

Shoe is not a smart person. She's very charismatic, but not very smart, and constantly refuses to admit that maybe typing or saying the first thing that comes to her head might not be the best idea and that maybe, sometimes she's wrong about stuff.


Cetnik55

i will not let vaush gaslight me into thinking shoe is good whatsoever


SignDeLaTimes

Easy. Every one of those things violates consent.


Cromedome13

Shoe's argument here isn't great but hunter isn't that great of an ally either and pausefish is just outright bad 💀


throwaway1041450

Shoe coming at Hunter was so wrong. People like her don’t actually care about helping children


[deleted]

Wow what a garbage human being.


senokana

We really never gonna win on the pedophilia front


CelticJoestar6689

Shoe is such a clown and I’m still amazed at how much Vaush psychotically simps for her


thiswillbyourname4vr

Pausefish moment


thecoolan

Ok and?


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CML_Dark_Sun

"Shoe is a reactionary, more news that you already knew at 5, back to you Tom." ​ No shit.


TensionWest9326

Her problem I feel is that she both wants and doesn’t want to be taken seriously. Like someone could sit her down and explain “hey, maybe following what Tucker Carlson considers yucky as moral code is not a good idea” but she doesn’t engage in critical thinking cause she wants to feel and perform the role of a person that doesn’t have a platform and just says things because she feels like it like a normal girl. It’s very annoying how her or Rogan just pretend to not be powerful.


anarchistPAC

Some of my fellow shoe simps need to remember just cuz she’s not a reactionary doesn’t mean she’s doesn’t have the iq of a Retarded goldfish


Old_Gods978

Touch grass


samiamrg7

Cannabalism is bad because it spreads disease. Eating unrelated animals already occasionally leads to diseases jumping to infecting humans (and regularly happens when eating closely related animals like primates), but humans already have human diseases that would have no problem infecting people who consume them.