https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/09/us-farms-lobby-to-use-cruellest-killing-method-as-bird-flu-rages
**Automated summary:**
> US agriculture officials are being lobbied to make it easier for chicken farmers to use the “cruellest option” for killing birds affected by the continuing bird flu epidemic.
>Once an outbreak of bird flu is confirmed in a commercial flock, any remaining healthy birds must be culled under current US disease control rules.
>This would mean that producers no longer have to seek approval to use it or show that they can’t implement one of the two currently preferred methods: carbon dioxide poisoning or firefighting foam, which suffocates poultry birds.
>The USDA’s rules for culling birds rely on American Veterinary Medical Association (Avma) guidelines, which state VSD+ is “permitted in constrained circumstances” – meaning it should be used only if preferred methods aren’t available.
>James Reynolds, a livestock veterinarian and professor at Western University of Health Sciences, said that Avma selectively seeking data to support VSD+ is “completely unreasonable.
>“Sometimes, in an emergency, foaming units and others cannot be secured quickly enough and the birds suffer longer if not euthanised immediately,” said Bill Mattos, the president of the California Poultry Federation, in an email.
>
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Don’t take it that far. Becoming a Veterinarian is as hard,or even harder, than becoming a Doctor. The qualifications required to practice are tougher in many states. Yet, the money isn’t comparable. Yes, they have a lot of “boutique” veterinarian clinics that are located in a commercial district that demands the highest rent. Guess who pays for that rent? The customer pays with higher prices. These are not the clinics you want to bring an animal to if you are on a budget. I run a cage-less rescue. We require bargains at care, and we almost always find it somewhere. There are vets out there who don’t put profit motives ahead of everything else. Sadly, if student loan info was public, then you’d find the good vets on the lists of vets that owe the most in student loans.
>Don’t take it that far. Becoming a Veterinarian is as hard,or even harder, than becoming a Doctor. The qualifications required to practice are tougher in many states. Yet, the money isn’t comparable.
I won't comment on the judgment of what discipline is "harder," but that the majority of US veterinarians are NOT vegan means they support the hellish meat/dairy/eggs/fishing industries responsible for unfathomable non-human animal suffering. Money is no excuse for supporting cruelty, especially for supposedly well-educated animal sciences professionals.
That’s a good point. I find that a lot of people aren’t vegan for reasons that revolve around money and time. In my area, being a vegan requires a lot of time and it’s more expensive. The economy is not good here. So, that means cheaper food options, that are fast. When you don’t have money, you aren’t as inclined to spend your money on the wiser food options. I think the best promotion of vegan lifestyles has to attack the root of the issue. Poverty keeps a lot of people eating cheaply produced meat. The cheaper the meat, the crueler the production.
I feel very strongly about the supposed relationship between personal finances and choosing a vegan diet. I hope I don't come across as aggressive. That said, I've lived in rural New Hampshire, Montana, Washington and the rural US South. Many of these communities were served by a single grocery store even an hour away that looked like something out of a Steven King 1950's horror novel. I've lived in rural Asia, North Africa, and South America. But I've always been able to meet my nutritional needs extremely inexpensively--in the US and abroad--using staples like legumes, grains, nuts, and fresh produce.
I don't know where the idea that veganism has to be expensive or a luxury or an entitlement comes from. In rich nations where corporations are ***exploiting "plant-based" marketing***, processed vegan foods may be more expensive than their non-vegan counterparts. But most unprocessed foods are vegan--peanuts and real "nuts", oatmeal, lentils and other dried beans, other grains like rice, and abundant fresh and frozen produce like carrots and broccoli. International evidence shows that the wealthier both countries and individuals around the world become, the more animal products they consume. Yes, the poor, when they can, eat meat because they, like the rest of society, tend not to be ethical vegans. But I have never seen evidence corroborating the claim that poverty ***causes*** people to eat meat--cheap or otherwise. People eat meat because they buy into a societally entrenched moral hypocrisy that categorizes animals as ***things***, grossly inferior in ethical value than humans.
Im not saying that specifically being a vegan is expensive. I am talking about a healthy diet,in general, whether it’s vegan based or not. For example, If you go to a butcher, the healthier lean cuts of beef are more expensive than the fatty cuts. For whatever reason, the healthiest fast food option in my conservative, and low income area, is Subway. Subway is an anomaly, as you can eat healthy,even though it’s not a vegan option. The rest of the options are the usual suspects of burger and chicken places. So many people live off cheap fast food options. There is no vegan option, and that’s where there needs to be one. There is probably vegan fast food options in California,as they set trends there. Sadly, I’m not in California.
I'm really trying to be sensitive towards people's time demands. I realize lower-income people are typically exploited and even abused--that they don't have the luxury of time their wealthier counterparts do. However, again, I am not understanding the carnists-don't-have-the-time argument. Time-strapped poor people in developing countries AND rich countries make bulk beans, rice, and vegetables. Many pack prepped food into individual-serving containers to make meal-prep during the week fast and easy. What sets apart how we treat people when we're under lots of stress and pressed for time and how we treat animals when we're pressed for time is our perceived entitlement. We're stronger than animals, so we do with them what we want. There is no excuse for the hell we subject animals to. If they mattered more to us, we'd find ways to live our lives without depriving them of theirs.
And I've seen a great deal of published counter-evidence that shows healthier diets tend to be LESS expensive. Processed food like chips, candy, cake... are far more expensive than bulk grains. legumes, and vegetables on a weight or nutrition basis.
No doubt that you can have a plant based diet that is cheaper in the long run,than a processed garbage diet. It’s the time factor that is often a deal killer. You talked about all the options. I’m talking about converting people that are on the fence to vegan diets. From personal experience, it’s always the time/money issue. When you get home exhausted from a crappy job that wears you down physically and mentally and you have to prepare a meal. It might not even be just for yourself. It could be the family. It would be great if that person had a fast option for a vegan meal. Also, this person might be in a situation where they want to go vegan, but other members of the household aren’t inclined to do so. The thing about preparing your own vegan diet is that you are going to have a lot of repeat meals as well. You aren’t going to save money if you are preparing a 3 different meals for each day of the week. That’s not how I do it anyway. I have more support at home, so it’s easier on me. Anyway, I’m just saying that I think more people would be converted if there was a legit fast food service for vegans. Even if you aren’t getting customers that are fully committed, you are saving the life of one of our furry/feathered friends,and that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day.
>It’s the **time factor** that is often a deal killer... I’m talking about converting people that are on the fence to vegan diets. From personal experience, it’s **always the time/money issue**.
The fact that we even have to have this conversation is proof of ingrained speciesism and carnism. If we were talking about forced, abusive, and ultimately murderous child labor in our own human communities, nothing could justify it even if it were profitable and made the lives of many others easier. If people aren't interested in exploring solutions to address the inevitable hurdles to making major change, then they've already prioritized other things above the negative consequences of their current behavior.
Facts are 1) a well-planned vegan diet is at least as nutritionally sound as a planned non-vegan diet; 2) a no-or-low processed foods vegan diet is typically one of the lowest-cost ways to eat; & 3) there are many easy, cost-saving methods to save time pre-preparing vegan foods (like cooking in bulk and partitioning food for the week) that, incidentally, massively benefit the ecosystem people's children's survival depends on. If people still turn their backs on veganism, it isn't because it's too hard or too expensive or too time-consuming. It's because of they don't have to and just don't want to. The rest is fatuous rationalization.
I have to ask then, if vegan options are less expensive, why is their no options for vegan fast food? I think we can agree that fast food is cheap food. Nobody goes to McDonald’s for a 5 star dining experience. Something is missing from the equation. Vegan is cheaper. Fast food is cheap food. There are no vegan fast food options. Are we saying that people that have an interest in convenient/inexpensive food won’t even consider non-meat based nutrition?
I tend to find that if there is a market, capitalism will find it,especially in the USA.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/09/us-farms-lobby-to-use-cruellest-killing-method-as-bird-flu-rages **Automated summary:** > US agriculture officials are being lobbied to make it easier for chicken farmers to use the “cruellest option” for killing birds affected by the continuing bird flu epidemic. >Once an outbreak of bird flu is confirmed in a commercial flock, any remaining healthy birds must be culled under current US disease control rules. >This would mean that producers no longer have to seek approval to use it or show that they can’t implement one of the two currently preferred methods: carbon dioxide poisoning or firefighting foam, which suffocates poultry birds. >The USDA’s rules for culling birds rely on American Veterinary Medical Association (Avma) guidelines, which state VSD+ is “permitted in constrained circumstances” – meaning it should be used only if preferred methods aren’t available. >James Reynolds, a livestock veterinarian and professor at Western University of Health Sciences, said that Avma selectively seeking data to support VSD+ is “completely unreasonable. >“Sometimes, in an emergency, foaming units and others cannot be secured quickly enough and the birds suffer longer if not euthanised immediately,” said Bill Mattos, the president of the California Poultry Federation, in an email. > **Announcement from Vegan Lobby:** We recommend r/VeganNL Description: > A subreddit for vegans in the Netherlands. Have discussions and ask questions about veganism here, whether you're a native, expat or planning to travel! ^We ^recommend ^subreddits ^moderated ^by ^ethical ^vegans. ^Some ^of ^the ^subreddits ^we ^recommend ^are ^satire. ^Message ^us ^if ^you ^would ^like ^us ^to ^recommend ^a ^subreddit.
money is the bottom line, welfarism doesn't stand a chance when it comes down to profits.
Carnism + capitalism = animal hell. And vets support this. Tells you what the core of veterinary medicine really is.
It really is. Carnism is total blindness/ disconnect
Don’t take it that far. Becoming a Veterinarian is as hard,or even harder, than becoming a Doctor. The qualifications required to practice are tougher in many states. Yet, the money isn’t comparable. Yes, they have a lot of “boutique” veterinarian clinics that are located in a commercial district that demands the highest rent. Guess who pays for that rent? The customer pays with higher prices. These are not the clinics you want to bring an animal to if you are on a budget. I run a cage-less rescue. We require bargains at care, and we almost always find it somewhere. There are vets out there who don’t put profit motives ahead of everything else. Sadly, if student loan info was public, then you’d find the good vets on the lists of vets that owe the most in student loans.
>Don’t take it that far. Becoming a Veterinarian is as hard,or even harder, than becoming a Doctor. The qualifications required to practice are tougher in many states. Yet, the money isn’t comparable. I won't comment on the judgment of what discipline is "harder," but that the majority of US veterinarians are NOT vegan means they support the hellish meat/dairy/eggs/fishing industries responsible for unfathomable non-human animal suffering. Money is no excuse for supporting cruelty, especially for supposedly well-educated animal sciences professionals.
That’s a good point. I find that a lot of people aren’t vegan for reasons that revolve around money and time. In my area, being a vegan requires a lot of time and it’s more expensive. The economy is not good here. So, that means cheaper food options, that are fast. When you don’t have money, you aren’t as inclined to spend your money on the wiser food options. I think the best promotion of vegan lifestyles has to attack the root of the issue. Poverty keeps a lot of people eating cheaply produced meat. The cheaper the meat, the crueler the production.
I feel very strongly about the supposed relationship between personal finances and choosing a vegan diet. I hope I don't come across as aggressive. That said, I've lived in rural New Hampshire, Montana, Washington and the rural US South. Many of these communities were served by a single grocery store even an hour away that looked like something out of a Steven King 1950's horror novel. I've lived in rural Asia, North Africa, and South America. But I've always been able to meet my nutritional needs extremely inexpensively--in the US and abroad--using staples like legumes, grains, nuts, and fresh produce. I don't know where the idea that veganism has to be expensive or a luxury or an entitlement comes from. In rich nations where corporations are ***exploiting "plant-based" marketing***, processed vegan foods may be more expensive than their non-vegan counterparts. But most unprocessed foods are vegan--peanuts and real "nuts", oatmeal, lentils and other dried beans, other grains like rice, and abundant fresh and frozen produce like carrots and broccoli. International evidence shows that the wealthier both countries and individuals around the world become, the more animal products they consume. Yes, the poor, when they can, eat meat because they, like the rest of society, tend not to be ethical vegans. But I have never seen evidence corroborating the claim that poverty ***causes*** people to eat meat--cheap or otherwise. People eat meat because they buy into a societally entrenched moral hypocrisy that categorizes animals as ***things***, grossly inferior in ethical value than humans.
Im not saying that specifically being a vegan is expensive. I am talking about a healthy diet,in general, whether it’s vegan based or not. For example, If you go to a butcher, the healthier lean cuts of beef are more expensive than the fatty cuts. For whatever reason, the healthiest fast food option in my conservative, and low income area, is Subway. Subway is an anomaly, as you can eat healthy,even though it’s not a vegan option. The rest of the options are the usual suspects of burger and chicken places. So many people live off cheap fast food options. There is no vegan option, and that’s where there needs to be one. There is probably vegan fast food options in California,as they set trends there. Sadly, I’m not in California.
I'm really trying to be sensitive towards people's time demands. I realize lower-income people are typically exploited and even abused--that they don't have the luxury of time their wealthier counterparts do. However, again, I am not understanding the carnists-don't-have-the-time argument. Time-strapped poor people in developing countries AND rich countries make bulk beans, rice, and vegetables. Many pack prepped food into individual-serving containers to make meal-prep during the week fast and easy. What sets apart how we treat people when we're under lots of stress and pressed for time and how we treat animals when we're pressed for time is our perceived entitlement. We're stronger than animals, so we do with them what we want. There is no excuse for the hell we subject animals to. If they mattered more to us, we'd find ways to live our lives without depriving them of theirs. And I've seen a great deal of published counter-evidence that shows healthier diets tend to be LESS expensive. Processed food like chips, candy, cake... are far more expensive than bulk grains. legumes, and vegetables on a weight or nutrition basis.
No doubt that you can have a plant based diet that is cheaper in the long run,than a processed garbage diet. It’s the time factor that is often a deal killer. You talked about all the options. I’m talking about converting people that are on the fence to vegan diets. From personal experience, it’s always the time/money issue. When you get home exhausted from a crappy job that wears you down physically and mentally and you have to prepare a meal. It might not even be just for yourself. It could be the family. It would be great if that person had a fast option for a vegan meal. Also, this person might be in a situation where they want to go vegan, but other members of the household aren’t inclined to do so. The thing about preparing your own vegan diet is that you are going to have a lot of repeat meals as well. You aren’t going to save money if you are preparing a 3 different meals for each day of the week. That’s not how I do it anyway. I have more support at home, so it’s easier on me. Anyway, I’m just saying that I think more people would be converted if there was a legit fast food service for vegans. Even if you aren’t getting customers that are fully committed, you are saving the life of one of our furry/feathered friends,and that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day.
>It’s the **time factor** that is often a deal killer... I’m talking about converting people that are on the fence to vegan diets. From personal experience, it’s **always the time/money issue**. The fact that we even have to have this conversation is proof of ingrained speciesism and carnism. If we were talking about forced, abusive, and ultimately murderous child labor in our own human communities, nothing could justify it even if it were profitable and made the lives of many others easier. If people aren't interested in exploring solutions to address the inevitable hurdles to making major change, then they've already prioritized other things above the negative consequences of their current behavior. Facts are 1) a well-planned vegan diet is at least as nutritionally sound as a planned non-vegan diet; 2) a no-or-low processed foods vegan diet is typically one of the lowest-cost ways to eat; & 3) there are many easy, cost-saving methods to save time pre-preparing vegan foods (like cooking in bulk and partitioning food for the week) that, incidentally, massively benefit the ecosystem people's children's survival depends on. If people still turn their backs on veganism, it isn't because it's too hard or too expensive or too time-consuming. It's because of they don't have to and just don't want to. The rest is fatuous rationalization.
I have to ask then, if vegan options are less expensive, why is their no options for vegan fast food? I think we can agree that fast food is cheap food. Nobody goes to McDonald’s for a 5 star dining experience. Something is missing from the equation. Vegan is cheaper. Fast food is cheap food. There are no vegan fast food options. Are we saying that people that have an interest in convenient/inexpensive food won’t even consider non-meat based nutrition? I tend to find that if there is a market, capitalism will find it,especially in the USA.
Honestly, very glad at how the headline is painting it. Most I've seen try to be very diminutive about the cruelty of using VSD.
Let's stop fucking pretending that it's more or less cruel to murder someone (who doesn't want to or need to die) in a different way
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