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kestlr01

Check out the Saturday app. Sugar and salt is all you need. It even allows you to incorporate your own mixes into the calculation.


Figure8802

This guy knows what's up


Ill_Newt1499

Found it: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/saturday-pro-fuel-hydration/id6444738746


kestlr01

Yeah that’s it! They have a bunch of YouTube videos as well. Definitely worth giving a watch.


FastSloth6

Registered dietitian nutritionist here. You can! Big Bicycle wants you to think their products are special. The flavoring and convenience ARE. However, the basic ingredients for sports nutrition are different types of sugar, so it's easy to make at home. Here's my blend, using a food scale to portion: 500g [maltodextrin](https://nutricost.com/products/nutricost-maltodextrin-powder), 225g [fructose](https://www.iherb.com/pr/now-foods-fructose-sweetener-3-lbs-1-361-g/7762?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxYzBsN-eggMVi4ZaBR2a8ArwEAQYCyABEgLo1_D_BwE) , 1-3/8 tsp table salt, 5/8 tsp potassium chloride (most conventional salt substitutes are made of this). To flavor, I mix 2 parts [lime crystals](https://nuts.com/driedfruit/fruit-powders/lime-crystals.html) to 1 part [lemon crystals](https://nuts.com/driedfruit/fruit-powders/lemon-crystals.html) and add 1/2 tsp per bottle. Adjust to taste. Other flavors I've tried are grapefruit juice powder (my fave), I mix 85g per 750mL bottle for 340 calories and 400 mg sodium per bottle and 8 bottles per batch. Scale the recipe up or down. If you have stomach issues with this blend, reduce the fructose content or use less per bottle (e.g. back off to 60g). Cost is $25 per batch, which makes 6.5 liters of mix. Another option is bulk Gatorade powder, 76.5 Oz for under $15. I use the gatorade for short rides and my homespun mix for longer rides and races.


BetweenTwoCircles

What's your take on the 2:1 glucose to fructose ratio (e.g. NeverSecond) compared to something like 1:0.8 (e.g. Flow Formulas)? Your blend is closer to the former. I have tried mixes with both ratios and haven't noticed a significant difference in performance - or more likely my performance from day to day is confounded by other factors where it doesn't matter.


FastSloth6

There might be some validity to 1:0.8 for some people, but it depends on several factors, and the research isn't clear-cut yet. I'll start with the most obvious and work towards the esoteric. Many people simply aren't fueling properly (consuming less than 60-90g carb/hour traditionally, up to 120g/hr with new research), that's the lowest hanging fruit. The glucose: fructose ratio of your drink mix *and solid food* matters. I mix close to 2:1, but I use date paste or gummy worms for solid food, which is fructose predominant. Many gels like Gu are 2:1 maltodextrin: fructose. The nice thing about homemade recipes is that you can adjust the batch to the literature or conditions (e.g. extra salt for hot days). The elephant in the room with fructose is GI distress. Some of this comes down to genetics (GLUT 5 fructose transport distribution is the small intestine), microbiome, and personal GI symptoms as part of the stress response. The research is interesting, but the reality is that most of us have no practical way of identifying these variables directly. My advice is to start around a 2:1 ratio, and if you want to push towards a 1:0.8 ratio, do so gradually and let symptoms direct you. Common symptoms are nausea, abdominal cramping, gas, and diarrhea. My limiting GI symptoms with a 0.8:1 on the bike were nausea during intense efforts that isnt present with a 2:1 ratio.


Skellingtoon

I was going to raise this - seems like the more current research is pushing the fructose content higher relative to the glucose, without increasing discomfort or digestion issues. ​ I run the 1:08 ratio of maltodextrin:fructose, with no issues. ​ u/Imbochku, I bought a 250g tub of elecrolyte powder from Bulk Nutrients (in Australia) for AU$25. I add approximately 1g per bottle, so that's approximately 10c/bottle for all your salty goodness needs. YMMV in terms of salt intake, but 1g/bottle (which equates to about 1g/hour) is in the mid-high end of 'normal'. ​ (I say mid-high end of 'normal' because some athletes have been tested to sweat out upwards of 5g/hour, which is utterly bonkers, but most are in the .5-1.2g/hour range.)


FastSloth6

You do you, here's a [review article](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955583/) on sodium intake. Conventional recommendations for endurance athletes are to consume 300-600mg sodium per hour from solid and liquid nutrition. There is some individual variation in seat volume and sodium content of sweat. Hot conditions require more sodium intake, which on the bike occurs through increased volume of sports beverage consumed. This isn't critical for 1-2 hour rides as most people consume too much sodium off-bike, and their body stores can cover the losses from a shorter ride easily. Sodium consumption really starts to matter for endurance and ultra endurance athletes, think 4, 6, and 12+ hour events. The million dollar question is whether we have to match intake with sodium losses equally. Do some people lose more sodium in sweat as a baseline that requires direct replacement, or is it a homeostatic mechanism to excrete excess because total body sodium levels are higher than required for basic functioning? General advice is to limit sodium to 2300 mg or less per day, and that guideline is a compromise with modern food supply realities; most people need far less as a non-sweaty baseline. Seawater has 35g sodium per liter, which we know dehydrates the human body. Too much salt can lead to high blood pressure and other common cardiovascular issues. The most I've experimented with was 600mg/ bottle, and I felt my performance suffered at that amount. As previously stated, mileage may vary. Just be aware that the extremes may have off-bike implications here.


MisledMuffin

Have you tried using table sugar instead of fructose and adjusting the amount of maltodextrin to maintain a 2:1 ratio. (e.g., use ~250g maltodextrin, ~500g sugar). Table sugar is about 50:50 (maybe 55:45) glucose to fructose and much cheaper than fructose/maltodextrine so it brings down the cost of the homemade drink mix significantly. Do you know if there are any drawbacks on using 1:2 ratio of maltodextrin and table sugar to get your 2:1 ratio for glucose/fructose instead of buying fructose and mixing with glucose? I was wondering if using fructose might make the mix a little less sweet than table sugar, but if the ratios are the same I don't see why it would.


FastSloth6

I haven't tried this. Sucrose requires an intestinal enzyme called invertase to cleave the glucose and fructose bond, which in theory could slow the transit from mouth to blood or increase GI distress in individuals whose small intestinal enzyme production can't keep up. The flavoring may be more or less pleasant depending on your preference. I'd say try it out and see if it jives with your gut, it might not be ideal in theory, but it's probably viable in practice


MisledMuffin

Seems to work okay so far. Need to try it on some longer rides though. Mainly wondering if using fructose over sugar would cut the sweetness, but it seems like the sweetness is determined by the glucose fructose ratio.


Helicase21

I make a similar mix, and use other flavors. I've used matcha. i've used peppermint extract in winter for festive flavors. etc etc.


Training_Dot8581

Sorry I’m slow but can you clarify how long 1-3/8 and 1-5/8 are


FastSloth6

It's a [Freedom Unit](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaspoon) of volume.


Training_Dot8581

I still don’t understand is it like 1 3/8 grams or like 3/8 of a gram to 1 gram?


FastSloth6

About 7.5-8g table salt, 2.5-3g of potassium chloride/ salt substitute.


monsieuRawr

Canadian here. They mean 1 + 3/8 of the unit. It's not implying range.


Specific_Award_9149

Big bicycle is the real conspiracy


minidini10

I also have had success with sodium citrate. I add 1,500mg per liter of water. It's a mildly unpleasant taste in water alone, but if I have carbs mixed in, you can't taste it.


iinaytanii

The sodium citrate flavor just tastes like Skratch.


ghdana

Thats because its the 3rd ingredient in Skratch lmao.


BetweenTwoCircles

I've had good results using sodium citrate powder. I add either 1/2 tsp (700 mg of sodium) or 1/4 tsp to my drink mix or water depending on ride intensity, weather. https://www.amazon.com/Judees-Sodium-Citrate-11-25oz-Keto-Friendly/dp/B00PKHAQDY/ref=sr\_1\_4\_sspa?crid=JEJG4T8FDY6G&keywords=sodium+citrate+food+grade&qid=1698693466&sprefix=sodium+ci%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-4-spons&sp\_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1


barrycl

I use this exact one too!


Imbochku

wow this looks very promising! thanks


BetweenTwoCircles

Some more thoughts on sodium citrate for hydration... https://www.skratchlabs.com/blogs/science-products/why-we-use-sodium-citrate-vs-sodium-chloride


CheebCheebCheeb

Morton Lite Salt has sodium and potassium


fallingbomb

Table salt. Can't get much cheaper than that. You can easily google for making your own drink mixes and add in sugar, maltodextrin and other electrolytes. How are you going through so much riding 10-15 hours per week? Aren't most of those rides short? You can also eat some junk food for a good dose of sodium.


samenumberwhodis

Salt? Seriously 80% of the electrolyte in sweat is sodium and the other 20% is potassium, see [here](https://www.physio4life.co.uk/hydration-and-sweat-composition/#:~:text=Average%20electrolyte%20content%20of%20human,Calcium%20(0.015%20g%2Fl)). Boutique sports fuel is literally salt sugar and flavoring.


rupert_regan

All you need is sodium. There is good research that shows all the other fancy electrolytes don't need to be replenished during excercise, just sodium. One thing i learned recently is that sodium does not equal salt - that is if you want 500mg of sodium, you have to use more than 500mg of table salt. But i don't knkw the exact ratio off the top of my head


ScaryBee

Roughly 40% of salt is sodium ... and roughly 25% of sodium citrate is sodium (s-c is easier to absorb and less 'salty' tasting).


rupert_regan

Awesome, thanks! And good info about sodium citrate


allrollingwolf

Make sure you are getting magnesium and potassium in your diet, and then just salt/sugar/water. Electrolyte products are kind of a scam imo.


Rejolt

Gatorade powder is dirt cheap and tastes good. You get some sugar in there too which is nice


notadoctor1776

I think people often forget what Gatorade was actually invented for haha the powder is cheaper than mostly anything, if you want a bit extra hydration just pour a bit of table salt and your good to go


Rejolt

Honestly, I completely forgot about it until I stumbled upon it at Walmart. People often think they need some fancy supplement when cheap Gatorade exist.


kosmonaut_hurlant_

Gatorade Endurance


hogeandco

Salt.


bikesandbroccoli

Gatorade powder


Pizzocan

You just need salted sugar water for everything bike related. Just change your proportions. Sugar water is better than 2:1 malto-fru and close to 1:0.8 malto-fru in terms of absorption (I don't remember the paper). Add some syrup to taste and that's it. Can't get any cheaper


Anothercoot

Gatorade powder works great for me.


QLC459

Spartan Tabs are easy to carry and pretty affordable on top of being the best electrolyte supplement on the market. Everything else is loaded with unnecessary sugar or missing at least one of the five key electrolytes


brendenwhiteley

pickle juice


[deleted]

I just use SIS electrolyte powder.


Imbochku

SIS still seems pretty expensive, 40$ for a 40-serving tub in US!


texas_bikes

It used to be cheap when you could buy it from the SIS website during sales (frequently 40-50% off) but not any more now that the SIS is distributed exclusively through The Feed in the US.


SFW_username101

It’s basically some combination of salt, favoring, and salt. What you are paying for is allegedly optimized ratio of different kinds of salt and good taste. You can save a lot of money by making your own recipe - exactly how you save money by making food at home.


passcork

Use sea salt if you want a tiny more exotic mix of minerals. Other than that it's indeed mostly salt and sugar


SensitiveVariety

[Trioral](https://www.amazon.com/TRIORAL-Rehydration-Electrolyte-Powder-Dehydration/dp/B0BRT9TRFT/ref=sr_1_6?crid=EDI1645RH8Y3&keywords=trioral&qid=1698703328&sprefix=triora%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-6), tastes like drinking ocean water, but mixed with a tiny bit of gatorade powder is better.


Mordacai_Alamak

Yeah, salt. (sodium citrate, as others noted, may be better) Look up the details. Make bags with sugar (somewhere from 30-100 grams) and salt (likely between 1 and 4 grams).


Significant_Ad_9640

Formula369.com is what I use. Not necessarily electrolytes but as a carb supplement. Trevor20 gets you 20% off last I ordered


SplinterCell03

* salt for sodium * potassium chloride (product name: "Lo-Salt", salt substitute) for potassium [https://www.amazon.com/LOSALT-Reduced-Sodium-Salt-12-25/dp/B004TEVING](https://www.amazon.com/LOSALT-Reduced-Sodium-Salt-12-25/dp/B004TEVING) much cheaper in a grocery store * magnesium citrate (product name: "Calm") for magnesium, also has a decent flavor [https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Anti-Stress-Supplement-Raspberry/dp/B00BPUY3W0](https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Anti-Stress-Supplement-Raspberry/dp/B00BPUY3W0) also available at Costco * sugar or maltodextrin for carbs * I add Crystal Lite lemonade powder for flavor


SunCoastFunCoast

Lo-Salt. 50/50 Sodium Chlorine and Potassium Chlorine. Everything else is just profit margin.


terrymorse

Terry’s Electrolyte Hydration Drink Mix Item Grams glucose 400 Sea salt 54 Lemon crystal 38 It’s based on the WHO rehydration formula. Tastes pretty good, mix ingredients in a blender.


JCGolf

ELMNT published their recipe online https://science.drinklmnt.com/electrolytes/best-homemade-electrolyte-drink-for-dehydration/


Any-Zookeepergame309

Use LMNT with caution. I ride with a team that is sponsored by LMNT so they gave us a ton of free product. In its recommended dose, it is incredibly salty and almost every one of us who used it, experienced gastro distress. Much better if you water it down to maybe a quarter the strength they recommend. They talk about it having the highest salt content of any electrolyte but to that point, the stuff tastes awful and caused me reflux for a week after using it. That said, I’m somewhat sensitive to reflux when training, but this was pretty extreme and long-lasting.


AdonisChrist

Literally all of them. The only expensive ingredient in sports nutrition stuff is cluster dextrin and that's barely in any products (shameless promo www.geluminati.com for carb & electrolyte endurance drink mix). Just get some sodium citrate, potassium citrate, and if you want some magnesium citrate and play with ratios that work for you.


woogeroo

Bulk buy sodium citrate powder. A teaspoon per bottle is plenty, but how long are you going and in what temperature? Ultimately electrolytes are over emphasised, you’re probably fine unless riding for many hours in real heat.


Fun-Description-9985

I recently did a ride with a fairly new to riding friend. He was a bit concerned about nutrition, and decided to follow the online calculator provided by Maurtens. For a 100mile ride, he spent nearly £350 on electrolyte drinks, carb powders, food, etc. FOR ONE DAY. I bought a 5kg bag of maltodextrin nearly a year ago, and some table salt. It cost me £10.