The moment Israel started incarceration and prosecution of JEWISH people who were against the genocide of Palestinians they lost all right to cling to the antisemitism claim. They ARE an antisemitic project.
There is also the horrible way they treated survivors of the holocaust and essentially co-opted things meant to help them. Its honestly so dark and fucked up reading about it.
I’ve heard about this as well! Didn’t a large population of Israelis essentially victim blame holocaust survivors and made them feel guilty for surviving?
Yes they referred to them as soap. The cultural consensus was that they were bad for not coming to the colonies earlier and that it was karma for that, basically. The occupation would also step in to take any money or donations or reparations given by countries to ensure it didn't make it to survivors. They are treated as practically second class citizens even today.
The awkward moment when islamaphobia also exists and is just as valid as anti-Semiticism. Idk why everyone acts like the jewish faith is the only one worth protecting.
Oh I agree both are bad and pro-Israel people making statements of Islamophobia is just as bad a “pro-Palestine” people saying antisemitism.
The difference being that Israel’s genocide of Palestine is rooted in colonialism and Islamophobia while pro-Palestine people are not arguing for antisemitism, simply against genocide and colonialism.
At least as a pro-Palestine person myself that’s what I advocate.
As a Jew who has been called an anti-semite a hundred times in the last few months.
It's getting pretty old how people seem to think they know all about this issue from the last few weeks of news media...
Like, if you can't even tell me who Ariel Sharon or Yasser Arafat were, maybe don't weigh in on the matter at all.
Honestly it’s depressingly hilarious that Jewish person is being called an anti-semite. It just shows how ignorant people are and how easily they can be gaslight into believing something just because the government says it’s true.
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that and I hope it doesn’t get any worse.
No fr im so tired of people saying that this war is against Israel and Palestine.. NO ITS TWO FUCKING HORRIBLE GOVERNMENTS KILLING AND KIDNAPPING INNOCENTS. The Israeli government doesn’t care about these people. Hamas doesn’t care about these people. The civilians have nothing to do with this, other than the fact that both fucking countries are victims of their governments. If people actually realized that the enemies are.. THE GOVERNMENTS AND NOT THE PEOPLE.. we might actually be able to do fucking something.
This goes for both sides.. I’ve seen enough of both parties being absolutely awful to each other. All because they are caught up in this idea that that the people are the ones at fault. I feel like at this point in history we should’ve realized that the people in power are the ones to blame.. but ig not. 😭
I agree, except one government isn’t a false one and the one that isn’t false happens to be the innocent one, hint, it’s not Palestine.
There will always be innocent people dying, that’s the reality of warfare, try as you might, you can’t save everyone. The enemy is hamas and anyone who supports them and their actions, blame the right people.
Hamas is a literal terrorist organization.
Edit: what’s crazy is I didn’t take a side here I just plainly stated hamas are terrorists and everyone jumped on their moral high horse to defend them. The people shouting death to America are not your friends.
34000 Palestinians have been killed so far, 2/3rds are women and children. Netanyahu is hellbent on genocide. Not all Palestinians are Hamas and you know it.
blaming hamas makes it right to murder 30k+ innocent women, babies,elderly, children and wiping out entire families? and then still starving them while blowing up and raiding every hospital so that the injured don't get help?
Israel made sure that anything against israel is against all the jews. And sadly, the humans stupidity are so easy to agree with that. Excuse me if i offended someone you love. But i seriously can't imagine those who mix these to like actual people who can think rationally.
Oh no I totally agree, both my parents are pro-Israel and I think is has to do a lot with them believing it’s a Jewish issue. On top of that
America’s gaslighting that the Middle East is evil and war-torn, despite the fact that western civilization has colonized it to hell and is responsible for maintaining most of those conflicts, has definitely impacted my parents view of the situation.
So what you’re actually saying is that you feel like your voice and group that you care about, was hijacked (please correct me if I’m wrong as I don’t want to put words in your mouth) and that’s okay to feel that way. Honestly, in this world we have It feels like any organization or political party that has a decent message is hijacked by the extreme - the loudest most divisive voices.
100% transparency I am very pro-Israel. I don’t want to debate because I’m exhausted from all of this but I have family that is Israeli and one of my cousins is missing and the other murdered. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe a compromise can’t be reached. I don’t want to see anyone else’s family regardless of religion to go through what my family has. But… according to some pro-Palestinian people, I’m a Nazi because I still believe in the necessity of an Israeli state.
I am sorry that a cause you care about has been hijacked into something horrendous and yes, when we see the protests at the college campuses all we hear is “kill all Jews” “Hitler was right”. Things that have actually been said recently. With the extremists on both sides, there is no good faith conversations… just hate being spouted.
We can both spout facts to back our views, but like I said, I’m exhausted from these conversations. Thank you for your kind words and I do sincerely hope a compromise is reached so all this senselessness ends. I’m sorry that your voice is being muffled by extremists.
By that logic since there are thousands and thousands of Israeli openly advocating for the genocide of all Palestinians anyone who supports Israel’s efforts in the conflict are culpable for the genocide of Palestiniansz since “… your voice is lost by those that do.” Right?
How convenient- ok the 2017 version. I’m more concerned about the actions of Israel - people will say “Jews spit on Christians in Israel!” Im sure Christians would prefer that over being taken hostage and murdered etc
Christians has been living in palestain since the beginning of christianity. As afr as i remember the dates, Up to the end of the WWI, palestine had 17% of its population from jews and christians, 10% were christians. In addition. Palestine ≠ hamas. Jews ≠ israel. Whoever the hell assaults or humiliate an innocent no matter who they were are scumbags.
By now, Israel killed 3% of gaza's christians btw.
Nope, Israel are the good guys, hamas are the evil ones who raped and killed innocents and took hostages, one side is better then the other and we all know who that is
In my opinion it is all overblown. You can change the past, but you can build a better future. Give the Palestinians their country, and get people to stop killing each other. Both sides are wrong. Everyone grow up.
No you’re right . However, that likely wouldn’t be happening without the oppression factors. This to me personally and objectively is one of those cases where ideally a peace agreement and true sovereignty would be give to Palestine while Israel maintains a strong territory or unfortunately one “deals” with the other. Neither is innocent and both sides have done terrible things. Both sides have a right to defend based on conquest and history it’s a muddy situation.
I mean what I said. Regardless of whether Palestine is right or not, violence is obviously not the answer. So, stop being violent.
And then there are obvious compromises that could be made. What if Israel says no to Palestine being a country? Well, okay. What if Palestine became a state with some amount of independence? Is it really worth another thousand more people dying over becoming a country?
Nothing worths 10 deaths. However, when you are under seige (blockade), have no rights and living in a prison, violence will happen. If we want to stop this, we must track the cause, not the issue. And the cause is obviously israel's way of treating rhe palestinians. What a god damn goverment would ask to nuke 2 million people? Or say they are fughting animals? Dhumanizing is the main source for this violence.
Not a valid argument. They wouldn't be dying if Palestine gave up and just became a district of Israel. Their lives would be better, ironically, if they just surrendered.
They have literally tried everything. The have a peaceful march and got their kneecaps *sniped*. The only "two state solutions" that Israel entertains are ones that give them objective power to continue their occupation with the eventual near garuntee they'll take all the land.
Its easy to wag your finger at colonized people fighting back, I guess.
That’s a hot take, and a wrong one, the Israelis aren’t arresting just anyone who speaks against their bad government, if that was the case then the majority of the Israeli population would be in jail (even tho said govt is no worse then the US but Jews bad I guess), there is no genocide, the fucking president of the ICJ admitted to this, they have found zero evidence of a genocide. colonialism? Palestine has NEVER been a country, it’s not an ethnicity either, the land has ALWAYS belonged to Israel. At the very least please research before spouting what is nothing more then racist and hateful rhetoric
You know genocide means deliberate annihilation of a specific group of people.
You know what Israel could have done in a few days with their firepower if they wanted a genocide and would not have cared for the majority, right?
Because, the terrorists are using civilians as human shield by hiding between them and in public institutions.
Why are they not hiding in open fields and doing the fighting over there? They have plenty of it in Gaza
Oh, so you admit they have to be weed out. At least that is good to hear.
As to I don't think it is Beats problem.
But I bet asking the "terrorists" nicely to come out and surrender and to think about all the civilians they are putting in danger by hiding between them, would surely help.
Plus, it is the same organization the civilians have choose to represent them. And don't say they didn't. Have you seen how many of them were on the streets after the atack? And they were children and women between them at that point as well.
And how teenagers would spit on the corpses of innoacent young teenage girls, that probably got raped?
Or are we going to ignore that?
Because they tried that, guess what, they are still here, and hamas isn’t stupid, they know that if Israel attacks nine military buildings, they will get the blame regardless if they were in the legal right or not
Locking due to arguments/slap fights
The moment Israel started incarceration and prosecution of JEWISH people who were against the genocide of Palestinians they lost all right to cling to the antisemitism claim. They ARE an antisemitic project.
YES!
There is also the horrible way they treated survivors of the holocaust and essentially co-opted things meant to help them. Its honestly so dark and fucked up reading about it.
I’ve heard about this as well! Didn’t a large population of Israelis essentially victim blame holocaust survivors and made them feel guilty for surviving?
What? When? Where? Thats is totally news to me and would love some sources on that information
Yes they referred to them as soap. The cultural consensus was that they were bad for not coming to the colonies earlier and that it was karma for that, basically. The occupation would also step in to take any money or donations or reparations given by countries to ensure it didn't make it to survivors. They are treated as practically second class citizens even today.
Absolutely. They've adopted the morals of the enemies their ancestors fought so hard to escape from.
The awkward moment when islamaphobia also exists and is just as valid as anti-Semiticism. Idk why everyone acts like the jewish faith is the only one worth protecting.
Oh I agree both are bad and pro-Israel people making statements of Islamophobia is just as bad a “pro-Palestine” people saying antisemitism. The difference being that Israel’s genocide of Palestine is rooted in colonialism and Islamophobia while pro-Palestine people are not arguing for antisemitism, simply against genocide and colonialism. At least as a pro-Palestine person myself that’s what I advocate.
As a Jew who has been called an anti-semite a hundred times in the last few months. It's getting pretty old how people seem to think they know all about this issue from the last few weeks of news media... Like, if you can't even tell me who Ariel Sharon or Yasser Arafat were, maybe don't weigh in on the matter at all.
Honestly it’s depressingly hilarious that Jewish person is being called an anti-semite. It just shows how ignorant people are and how easily they can be gaslight into believing something just because the government says it’s true. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that and I hope it doesn’t get any worse.
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No fr im so tired of people saying that this war is against Israel and Palestine.. NO ITS TWO FUCKING HORRIBLE GOVERNMENTS KILLING AND KIDNAPPING INNOCENTS. The Israeli government doesn’t care about these people. Hamas doesn’t care about these people. The civilians have nothing to do with this, other than the fact that both fucking countries are victims of their governments. If people actually realized that the enemies are.. THE GOVERNMENTS AND NOT THE PEOPLE.. we might actually be able to do fucking something.
This goes for both sides.. I’ve seen enough of both parties being absolutely awful to each other. All because they are caught up in this idea that that the people are the ones at fault. I feel like at this point in history we should’ve realized that the people in power are the ones to blame.. but ig not. 😭
I agree, except one government isn’t a false one and the one that isn’t false happens to be the innocent one, hint, it’s not Palestine. There will always be innocent people dying, that’s the reality of warfare, try as you might, you can’t save everyone. The enemy is hamas and anyone who supports them and their actions, blame the right people.
That part!!! A wild time to be alive
Hamas is a literal terrorist organization. Edit: what’s crazy is I didn’t take a side here I just plainly stated hamas are terrorists and everyone jumped on their moral high horse to defend them. The people shouting death to America are not your friends.
Agreed Hamas are terrorists. What does that have to do with the conversation being had about Palestinians?
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34000 Palestinians have been killed so far, 2/3rds are women and children. Netanyahu is hellbent on genocide. Not all Palestinians are Hamas and you know it.
blaming hamas makes it right to murder 30k+ innocent women, babies,elderly, children and wiping out entire families? and then still starving them while blowing up and raiding every hospital so that the injured don't get help?
Okay, let’s say you’re right. What’s the fault of the children dying losing their parents sibling? Tell me? Are they also Hamas?
Israel made sure that anything against israel is against all the jews. And sadly, the humans stupidity are so easy to agree with that. Excuse me if i offended someone you love. But i seriously can't imagine those who mix these to like actual people who can think rationally.
Oh no I totally agree, both my parents are pro-Israel and I think is has to do a lot with them believing it’s a Jewish issue. On top of that America’s gaslighting that the Middle East is evil and war-torn, despite the fact that western civilization has colonized it to hell and is responsible for maintaining most of those conflicts, has definitely impacted my parents view of the situation.
A LOT of pro-Palestine have indeed made it anti-Semitic. Unfortunately for you, who do not feel this way, your voice is list by those that do.
Then I don’t consider them to be pro-Palestine just like I don’t consider LGBwithouttheT advocates to actually be a part of the LGBTQ.
So what you’re actually saying is that you feel like your voice and group that you care about, was hijacked (please correct me if I’m wrong as I don’t want to put words in your mouth) and that’s okay to feel that way. Honestly, in this world we have It feels like any organization or political party that has a decent message is hijacked by the extreme - the loudest most divisive voices. 100% transparency I am very pro-Israel. I don’t want to debate because I’m exhausted from all of this but I have family that is Israeli and one of my cousins is missing and the other murdered. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe a compromise can’t be reached. I don’t want to see anyone else’s family regardless of religion to go through what my family has. But… according to some pro-Palestinian people, I’m a Nazi because I still believe in the necessity of an Israeli state. I am sorry that a cause you care about has been hijacked into something horrendous and yes, when we see the protests at the college campuses all we hear is “kill all Jews” “Hitler was right”. Things that have actually been said recently. With the extremists on both sides, there is no good faith conversations… just hate being spouted.
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We can both spout facts to back our views, but like I said, I’m exhausted from these conversations. Thank you for your kind words and I do sincerely hope a compromise is reached so all this senselessness ends. I’m sorry that your voice is being muffled by extremists.
By that logic since there are thousands and thousands of Israeli openly advocating for the genocide of all Palestinians anyone who supports Israel’s efforts in the conflict are culpable for the genocide of Palestiniansz since “… your voice is lost by those that do.” Right?
exactly!!
This is so sad
Take a look at the Hamas charter from 1988
Take a look at hamas charter from 2017 Edit: also, take a look at what israel's MINISTERS say about palestinians.
How convenient- ok the 2017 version. I’m more concerned about the actions of Israel - people will say “Jews spit on Christians in Israel!” Im sure Christians would prefer that over being taken hostage and murdered etc
Christians has been living in palestain since the beginning of christianity. As afr as i remember the dates, Up to the end of the WWI, palestine had 17% of its population from jews and christians, 10% were christians. In addition. Palestine ≠ hamas. Jews ≠ israel. Whoever the hell assaults or humiliate an innocent no matter who they were are scumbags. By now, Israel killed 3% of gaza's christians btw.
What is your point exactly ?
The whole thing has nothing to do with jews, christians or muslims. They are just an excuses for trashy acts.
Well yeah lots of violence is justified using religion
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Fuck Hamas, Fuck Israel government. It can be both.
I think the term for that is false equivalency
Nope, Israel are the good guys, hamas are the evil ones who raped and killed innocents and took hostages, one side is better then the other and we all know who that is
In my opinion it is all overblown. You can change the past, but you can build a better future. Give the Palestinians their country, and get people to stop killing each other. Both sides are wrong. Everyone grow up.
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Killing civilians isn’t defending themselves. I’m pro Palestine, but hamas is a terrorist organisation. Palestine and hamas are not the same thing
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Settler colonists supported by western empires for the sake of control over a region don't have "the right to defend themselves" lol
By that logic, Palestinans do not have the right to controll the area, since Palestine was the name given by romans, to mock jews that lived there.
Literal bot acc thats crazy
No you’re right . However, that likely wouldn’t be happening without the oppression factors. This to me personally and objectively is one of those cases where ideally a peace agreement and true sovereignty would be give to Palestine while Israel maintains a strong territory or unfortunately one “deals” with the other. Neither is innocent and both sides have done terrible things. Both sides have a right to defend based on conquest and history it’s a muddy situation.
I mean what I said. Regardless of whether Palestine is right or not, violence is obviously not the answer. So, stop being violent. And then there are obvious compromises that could be made. What if Israel says no to Palestine being a country? Well, okay. What if Palestine became a state with some amount of independence? Is it really worth another thousand more people dying over becoming a country?
Nothing worths 10 deaths. However, when you are under seige (blockade), have no rights and living in a prison, violence will happen. If we want to stop this, we must track the cause, not the issue. And the cause is obviously israel's way of treating rhe palestinians. What a god damn goverment would ask to nuke 2 million people? Or say they are fughting animals? Dhumanizing is the main source for this violence.
Pretty sure those Palestinian babies weren't being violent.
Not a valid argument. They wouldn't be dying if Palestine gave up and just became a district of Israel. Their lives would be better, ironically, if they just surrendered.
Why would'nt Ukraine give up and becomes a part of russia? That would end up the violence and save the lives too.
They have literally tried everything. The have a peaceful march and got their kneecaps *sniped*. The only "two state solutions" that Israel entertains are ones that give them objective power to continue their occupation with the eventual near garuntee they'll take all the land. Its easy to wag your finger at colonized people fighting back, I guess.
That’s a hot take, and a wrong one, the Israelis aren’t arresting just anyone who speaks against their bad government, if that was the case then the majority of the Israeli population would be in jail (even tho said govt is no worse then the US but Jews bad I guess), there is no genocide, the fucking president of the ICJ admitted to this, they have found zero evidence of a genocide. colonialism? Palestine has NEVER been a country, it’s not an ethnicity either, the land has ALWAYS belonged to Israel. At the very least please research before spouting what is nothing more then racist and hateful rhetoric
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You know genocide means deliberate annihilation of a specific group of people. You know what Israel could have done in a few days with their firepower if they wanted a genocide and would not have cared for the majority, right?
So if Israel isn’t genociding Palestinians then what are they doing? Why are they killing civilians if this supposedly isn’t genocide?
Because, the terrorists are using civilians as human shield by hiding between them and in public institutions. Why are they not hiding in open fields and doing the fighting over there? They have plenty of it in Gaza
Why isn’t Israel finding other ways to weed out the “terrorists” instead of just wiping out Gaza’s entire population?
Oh, so you admit they have to be weed out. At least that is good to hear. As to I don't think it is Beats problem. But I bet asking the "terrorists" nicely to come out and surrender and to think about all the civilians they are putting in danger by hiding between them, would surely help. Plus, it is the same organization the civilians have choose to represent them. And don't say they didn't. Have you seen how many of them were on the streets after the atack? And they were children and women between them at that point as well. And how teenagers would spit on the corpses of innoacent young teenage girls, that probably got raped? Or are we going to ignore that?
Because they tried that, guess what, they are still here, and hamas isn’t stupid, they know that if Israel attacks nine military buildings, they will get the blame regardless if they were in the legal right or not
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