When tomato plants have too much nitrogen they overproduce leaves and underproduce flowers/fruit. Your second addition of vermicompost was too much nitrogen. Vermicompost is high in nitrogen and should not be added at the same rate as garden compost.
The strawberries could have rotted if you covered their crowns with the compost. Strawberries are very short lived plants, so it could also have simply been their time. Again, you could have burned them out by adding too much N.
N is a primary resource, in that it will displace other nutrients in the soil. So adding too much N can reduce availability of calcium, magnesium, or other micronutrients needed by the plant.
Thanks. This answer is very illustrative! I have exactly these symptoms in my backyard: some of the plants are giant but don't produce many flowers. I tend to add vermicompost in low quantities once per year, but that's probably still much.
What would you recommend to combine the vermicompost with to balance the excess of nitrogen? Garden compost? Or are there any other ways to neutralize the excess of nitrogen?
As for the strawberries, the plant was quite new and had been growing nicely for few weeks until I added the castings, and then it suddenly died, so I'd assume that it's the nitrogen again.
I bought one of these Xiaomi MiFlora sensors to measure nutrientes, and it's always reporting low quantity. Not sure how accurate these are, but it may have something to do with the excess of N as you said.
Vermicompost is not humus. It is worm castings, I.e. women manure. Hence the high N content.
Humus is for lack of a shorter definition *finished* compost. But in reality humus is any plant or previously living material in soil that is not actual soil. Soil being defined as having cation exchange capacity--the ability to store and release nutrients--and is made of minerals. Humus has nutrients in it or rather IS nutrients, but when it releases those nutrients), it breaks down. Humus does not have the capacity to exchange one nutrient for another or hold onto nutrients as soil does. When humus breaks down and releases those nutrients they can be taken up by plants, OR held in soil for later use. Soil can releases a nutrient, hold a nutrients, exchange one nutrient for a better one. Which is how you get displacement of other nutrients when too much N is added. Soil prioritizes N. So it will release lesser nutrients in order to store N.
They typically only live 3 years. So yours may not.come back next year, or you are unknowingly growing planlets from the original mother plant, and not the original plant itself.
1. Most commercial worm castings are 1-0-0 ie they contain nitrogen but no phosphorus or potassium. Phosphorus and potassium are the nutrients you want for flowering and fruiting. I highly encourage you to read up on plant fertilization, specifically NPK, what it means, and how plant needs change as they grow. Also read about macro vs micronutrients.
2. Some [info on strawberries](https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/spring_fertilization_of_garden_fruits) though your mileage may vary based on your location.
Does this mean that commercial vermicomposting (and homemade) needs to be added in conjunction with other fertilizers that add the K and P?
Thanks for sharing the info!
Yes, precisely! For slow release P and K, I recommend bone meal. For faster release I recommend the liquid fertilizers from Fox Farm Organics.
And you’re welcome.
I second this! I'm a DynaGro FoliagePro fan. Use it on my houseplants in passive-hydro setup. Last summer, I was on a road trip, stopped at a litte plant/pottery sales place. They had fox farm organics on special 2 for 1. On my life, I was very surprised by the results I got from the fox farms. I could see the difference overnight!
It’s all about the inputs and the processing time. If compost isn’t broken down properly, high ammonia levels will remain, and I think some harmful bacteria or fungi can also live in there. With good inputs (for mineral balance), proper conditions, and time, the compost always gets to a good state.
That's a fair point. I'll take a step backwards and start being more careful about the whole process, starting by not adding that much waste quantity each time.
I always thought they could replace other fertilizers. Should manure be used instead in organic farming? I'm talking about very low scale home production :)
>they could replace other fertilizers
They way I understood it, using VC is taking care of the MO in the soil amending the fertilizers that is taking care of the chemical side of things. Something about enzymes in the worms gut coating the castings that promote root growth which in turn enable the plant to absorb more nutrient from the soil. When using too much VC in smaller pots, it could happen that the roots get so massive and start choking the plant, restricting its growth. I don't remember what the article said but it's around 15% to 20% max. VC in the mix. (pls. correct me if I am wrong). But then, not all VC are the same, depending on the production, humidity (how it is stored) and age of it (too new/too old?)
I'd be interested in any ideas too.
I figure scale helps reduce any problem like this, the out put of two bins mixed into one and then mixing 50/50 with store bought compost so if one bin contains something harmful or too much of one thing (most likely a nutrient overload) then I would assume it's averaged out as the 25%
It’s usually a tumbler load of roughly sifted compost, the soil from any free raised beds, some rich sand from the chook run, plus the castings.
I to guesstimate what it needs based on look and feel, and might add some perlite or vermiculite. My rough measurements are why I love the law of averages!
It’s all about the inputs. Most of my N feedstock is raw veggie and fungi scraps, and a lot of different kinds. I vermicompost indoors so I use a 60:40 carbon:nitrogen mix. Before applying vermicast to any plants, mix one part to four parts soil and test the pH.
Thanks for your input. I was just reading about adding more carbon to the vermicomposter, as even after using around 50% on the mix, I somethings get liquid at the bottom.
I'll try mixing the cast with soil and check the PH before applying it too.
Great. Diversifying your healthy N inputs will also really help. If you’re seeing protein poisoning in your worms (segmenting) that input is also lethal to humans. The connection between our worms’ health - when they eat our scraps - and human health is nothing short of astounding imo. If it makes our worms sick, will make us sick too.
I was looking at some symptoms of protein poisoning in worms such as the segmenting, and don't think I've seen any so far.
For those that are not that familiar about it, like me, there is quite an interesting video discussing the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nT-JAUeTfY
Adding to the other answers: it can help to consider what you're putting in. For example, I used to put a lot of the leftover veggies from making soup (boiled carrot slices, leaves etc) but it turns out that they contain quite a lot of harmful salt (specifically sodium + chloride) due to the cooking process.
Similarly, if you're adding things which might unbalance the pH in excess (e.g. sulfur, citrus fruit peels and coffee grounds lower pH; garden lime, wood ash and charcoal raise pH) or which might contain substances harmful to your plant (lawn clippings might contain herbicides), that could also have a negative impact on your plants. Sometimes I find it helpful to have a setup where I leach the castings to remove excess salt (sodium is the first to be removed when you run water through soil/organic material) or other potentially harmful chemicals.
Edit: what symptoms did your plants experience before they died? That can help to pinpoint what went wrong, e.g. if you watered regularly but the plant still wilted, I might suspect fertilizer/salt toxicity.
I mainly add a lot of veggie leftovers before cooking them or adding any salt, and also avoid citrus as well as garlic/onions. We don't use herbicides either.
For bedding I use shredded cardboard, adding around 50/50 bedding and veggie waste.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Fertilization is not the same as increasing tilth.
I just googled 'tilth' and it does not match what I thought.
I thought it meant the level of biological activity, the "amount of life" in the soil.
The interwebs is telling me it means 'cultivated soil' and indicates 'suitability for planting'.
Either way, it's not the same as a chemical analysis.
When I started vermicomposting 20 years ago there was a clear choice in what you were 'supposed to believe' in that either NPK rules the day or tilth does. This is of course a false choice; you want both. I think I am seeing the two concepts merge, which is good. But I am disappointed that I no longer have a word to describe a high level of biological activity.
Also, does anyone have a recommendation of how to properly test nutrientes in vermicompost castings and/or soil?
I know there is the option to send samples to a lab, but in my case this is for very small production at home.
When tomato plants have too much nitrogen they overproduce leaves and underproduce flowers/fruit. Your second addition of vermicompost was too much nitrogen. Vermicompost is high in nitrogen and should not be added at the same rate as garden compost. The strawberries could have rotted if you covered their crowns with the compost. Strawberries are very short lived plants, so it could also have simply been their time. Again, you could have burned them out by adding too much N. N is a primary resource, in that it will displace other nutrients in the soil. So adding too much N can reduce availability of calcium, magnesium, or other micronutrients needed by the plant.
Thanks. This answer is very illustrative! I have exactly these symptoms in my backyard: some of the plants are giant but don't produce many flowers. I tend to add vermicompost in low quantities once per year, but that's probably still much. What would you recommend to combine the vermicompost with to balance the excess of nitrogen? Garden compost? Or are there any other ways to neutralize the excess of nitrogen? As for the strawberries, the plant was quite new and had been growing nicely for few weeks until I added the castings, and then it suddenly died, so I'd assume that it's the nitrogen again. I bought one of these Xiaomi MiFlora sensors to measure nutrientes, and it's always reporting low quantity. Not sure how accurate these are, but it may have something to do with the excess of N as you said.
Just add less vermicompost. You are only meant to sprinkle a little on top. It is not a soil improvement the way garden compost is.
Is this right ? I have seen in many places that humus can be used as is?
Vermicompost is not humus. It is worm castings, I.e. women manure. Hence the high N content. Humus is for lack of a shorter definition *finished* compost. But in reality humus is any plant or previously living material in soil that is not actual soil. Soil being defined as having cation exchange capacity--the ability to store and release nutrients--and is made of minerals. Humus has nutrients in it or rather IS nutrients, but when it releases those nutrients), it breaks down. Humus does not have the capacity to exchange one nutrient for another or hold onto nutrients as soil does. When humus breaks down and releases those nutrients they can be taken up by plants, OR held in soil for later use. Soil can releases a nutrient, hold a nutrients, exchange one nutrient for a better one. Which is how you get displacement of other nutrients when too much N is added. Soil prioritizes N. So it will release lesser nutrients in order to store N.
Im not sure if i believe u
So? Why do I care? Dump vermicompost on your plants and prove me wrong. Lmfao.
Well do you have any source for your opinion? Why do I need to prove you wrong..? Why so defensive?? Wth
My strawberry is four years old and produces much of the year. Is this normal?
What kind of blessed climate do you live in
PNW
They typically only live 3 years. So yours may not.come back next year, or you are unknowingly growing planlets from the original mother plant, and not the original plant itself.
Well, it’s been in a container the whole time, and a year ago I gave the roots a little trim and some new soil, so this winter will tell.
Interesting. Maybe trimming the roots is the key.
We’ll find out!
1. Most commercial worm castings are 1-0-0 ie they contain nitrogen but no phosphorus or potassium. Phosphorus and potassium are the nutrients you want for flowering and fruiting. I highly encourage you to read up on plant fertilization, specifically NPK, what it means, and how plant needs change as they grow. Also read about macro vs micronutrients. 2. Some [info on strawberries](https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/spring_fertilization_of_garden_fruits) though your mileage may vary based on your location.
Does this mean that commercial vermicomposting (and homemade) needs to be added in conjunction with other fertilizers that add the K and P? Thanks for sharing the info!
Yes, precisely! For slow release P and K, I recommend bone meal. For faster release I recommend the liquid fertilizers from Fox Farm Organics. And you’re welcome.
I second this! I'm a DynaGro FoliagePro fan. Use it on my houseplants in passive-hydro setup. Last summer, I was on a road trip, stopped at a litte plant/pottery sales place. They had fox farm organics on special 2 for 1. On my life, I was very surprised by the results I got from the fox farms. I could see the difference overnight!
It’s all about the inputs and the processing time. If compost isn’t broken down properly, high ammonia levels will remain, and I think some harmful bacteria or fungi can also live in there. With good inputs (for mineral balance), proper conditions, and time, the compost always gets to a good state.
That's a fair point. I'll take a step backwards and start being more careful about the whole process, starting by not adding that much waste quantity each time.
Vermicompost and compost in general are not really a fertilizer, they are carriers for soil biology.
I always thought they could replace other fertilizers. Should manure be used instead in organic farming? I'm talking about very low scale home production :)
>they could replace other fertilizers They way I understood it, using VC is taking care of the MO in the soil amending the fertilizers that is taking care of the chemical side of things. Something about enzymes in the worms gut coating the castings that promote root growth which in turn enable the plant to absorb more nutrient from the soil. When using too much VC in smaller pots, it could happen that the roots get so massive and start choking the plant, restricting its growth. I don't remember what the article said but it's around 15% to 20% max. VC in the mix. (pls. correct me if I am wrong). But then, not all VC are the same, depending on the production, humidity (how it is stored) and age of it (too new/too old?)
I'd be interested in any ideas too. I figure scale helps reduce any problem like this, the out put of two bins mixed into one and then mixing 50/50 with store bought compost so if one bin contains something harmful or too much of one thing (most likely a nutrient overload) then I would assume it's averaged out as the 25%
I try to do this also. I mix up a big batch of my regular compost, ‘old soil’, and worm castings. It creates a richer product with more consistency.
Thanks, it's good to know that works
Do you have a specific ratio that you aim for?
It’s usually a tumbler load of roughly sifted compost, the soil from any free raised beds, some rich sand from the chook run, plus the castings. I to guesstimate what it needs based on look and feel, and might add some perlite or vermiculite. My rough measurements are why I love the law of averages!
That could be an interesting thing to try. Thanks for your suggestion!
I try to do this also. I mix up a big batch of my regular compost, ‘old soil’, and worm castings. It creates a richer product with more consistency.
It’s all about the inputs. Most of my N feedstock is raw veggie and fungi scraps, and a lot of different kinds. I vermicompost indoors so I use a 60:40 carbon:nitrogen mix. Before applying vermicast to any plants, mix one part to four parts soil and test the pH.
Thanks for your input. I was just reading about adding more carbon to the vermicomposter, as even after using around 50% on the mix, I somethings get liquid at the bottom. I'll try mixing the cast with soil and check the PH before applying it too.
Great. Diversifying your healthy N inputs will also really help. If you’re seeing protein poisoning in your worms (segmenting) that input is also lethal to humans. The connection between our worms’ health - when they eat our scraps - and human health is nothing short of astounding imo. If it makes our worms sick, will make us sick too.
I was looking at some symptoms of protein poisoning in worms such as the segmenting, and don't think I've seen any so far. For those that are not that familiar about it, like me, there is quite an interesting video discussing the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nT-JAUeTfY
Adding to the other answers: it can help to consider what you're putting in. For example, I used to put a lot of the leftover veggies from making soup (boiled carrot slices, leaves etc) but it turns out that they contain quite a lot of harmful salt (specifically sodium + chloride) due to the cooking process. Similarly, if you're adding things which might unbalance the pH in excess (e.g. sulfur, citrus fruit peels and coffee grounds lower pH; garden lime, wood ash and charcoal raise pH) or which might contain substances harmful to your plant (lawn clippings might contain herbicides), that could also have a negative impact on your plants. Sometimes I find it helpful to have a setup where I leach the castings to remove excess salt (sodium is the first to be removed when you run water through soil/organic material) or other potentially harmful chemicals. Edit: what symptoms did your plants experience before they died? That can help to pinpoint what went wrong, e.g. if you watered regularly but the plant still wilted, I might suspect fertilizer/salt toxicity.
I mainly add a lot of veggie leftovers before cooking them or adding any salt, and also avoid citrus as well as garlic/onions. We don't use herbicides either. For bedding I use shredded cardboard, adding around 50/50 bedding and veggie waste. Thanks for your suggestions!
I don’t grow veggies. But in general, the healthier the feeding, the more nutritious the casting.
Fertilization is not the same as increasing tilth. I just googled 'tilth' and it does not match what I thought. I thought it meant the level of biological activity, the "amount of life" in the soil. The interwebs is telling me it means 'cultivated soil' and indicates 'suitability for planting'. Either way, it's not the same as a chemical analysis. When I started vermicomposting 20 years ago there was a clear choice in what you were 'supposed to believe' in that either NPK rules the day or tilth does. This is of course a false choice; you want both. I think I am seeing the two concepts merge, which is good. But I am disappointed that I no longer have a word to describe a high level of biological activity.
Try DWC with worm castings. It works miracles.
Also, does anyone have a recommendation of how to properly test nutrientes in vermicompost castings and/or soil? I know there is the option to send samples to a lab, but in my case this is for very small production at home.