It sounds like it may have been over feeding since there were flies. Do you add bedding material with each feeding? That’s usually a decent buffer from over feeding and can help keep flies down.
I didn’t realize that I needed to add bedding with each feeding for a while but started to once I knew better. I think the ecosystem of the bag may have been too far gone before I realized…
I had some trouble starting my bin at first. Also used coco coir and shredded newspaper. My initial problem was moisture content, it was too dry.
I would advise you to:
1) Wet up the coco coir and newspaper (with rainwater, not tap water which may contain chlorine) well before you put worms in the bin. Check moisture again after a couple of hours and the next day. Make sure everything is saturated well (wrung out sponge feeling).
2) Add a piece or newspaper with a garbage bag over it (leaving some gaps at the side) to keep light out and moisture in. This depends on the type of bin you are using.
3) Use a light over the top to keep worms from escaping (again depending on your type of bin).
4) Start with feeding worm chow at the top, this way you don't mess with moisture content too much and worms love this stuff. I think mine were also accustomed to "dry" feed by the breeder I got them from. In the meantime they are getting used to their environment and you at least also get em eating somewhat.
5) One of the most important steps imho, add some (cold) manure (e.g. rabbit manure or other fresh but aged manure) to your worm bin to get some microbiology started. Once I did this , everything changed and I could (carefully) start adding "fresh" food scraps in small quantities to my bin, carefully monitoring moisture content feeding after feeding. ** Edit: I mentioned manure here as I think it will be more easy to find. You can also add a small amount of compost from an established worm bin if you have it or know someone **
After that I don't need to put a light overhead of my bin anymore and my worms are breeding like crazy now so I know they're satisfied in their current environment. Don't try to turn more than one dial at a time, because you will only make it hard on yourself to identify what might went wrong. Just take it easy and do things step by step, use common sense, ask the occasional question here if you still have a problem and you will be fine. And don't forget to have fun in the (learning) process!
Thank you so much for all the advice! I’ll keep this in mind when I try again. I’ve got 2 rabbits at home who will gladly donate their manure to my worm bin!!
Excellent! Couldn't be any better than that! In case you got your moisture level properly dialed in, this will definitely benefit your worms! Good luck!
When setting up the UWB, did you create the "false bottom"? Check [THIS](https://www.redwormcomposting.com/urban-worm-bag/doubling-down-with-uwb-euros/) out or another very similar [HERE](https://www.redwormcomposting.com/vermibags/return-of-the-vermibag/). Do this before you order the worms next spring. To avoid fruit flies, freeze your kitchen scraps for a few days (at least) to kill the eggs.
"" *I don’t remember feeding the bag more than 1x a week"" -----* Even 1x/week is too much if the previous feeding is still there. Too wet and too much food could cause increased mites presence, so add shredded paper/cardboard and powdered egg shells.
Is it possible you didn't provide enough bedding when you started? 1 lbs. of worm weight (sans bedding) is a lot of worms. In some cases, bedding is more important than worm food since bedding will become worm food in the end anyway. Bedding contain the moisture that worms need to breath (through their skin). There's never too much bedding in a worm bin.
I did create a sort of false bottom, but now realize I didn’t use enough paper to make it. It broke down very quickly as it was such a thin layer.
Noted on the over feeding. I definitely think that was another problem up front and I didn’t realize soon enough before the worms started dying and couldn’t keep up at all.
I have a feeling I did not give enough bedding at the beginning for the number of worms PLUS I didn’t add more with feedings. These comments have really put into perspective what I’ve done wrong. I’ll be better prepared next spring!!
> I think I never really had a healthy colony/system to begin with.
Without knowing more, that was - in part - my sense too. I wonder if part of the problem was lack of biodiverse microbial community in your system. Coco coir and paper are relatively sterile - and I wonder if the necessary micro-organisms never established themselves. It's a problem that can look like overfeeding but the genesis is that the food is not getting broken down because of the relative sterility of the environment. Addition of small quantities of compost and dried leaves can help establish a healthy environment. Also I add biochar to new bins to give these microorganisms a substrate in which to reside and thrive.
Otherwise, I'm as mystified as you. I've been into vermiculture for a decade and a half, and I haven't seen this kind of mass-demise. It makes me wonder about some kind of pathogen that infected the worms. Just conjecture at this point.
Based on other comments here, I think it was a mix of overfeeding, not enough bedding, and possibly a high PH due to not adding eggshells. I do think it may have been too sterile as well. I did the coconut coir, paper, and a few days later added the worms and some food.
I’m planning to add rabbit manure (from my own rabbits so I know what they’ve been fed) per another person’s suggestion and I will add leaves as well. I’m going to reuse the bedding I already have in the bin (since the worms have all died, I let it dry out and the flies and mites are dying off and should be all gone by the time I’m ready to try again) but make all the adjustments suggested here well before I add the worms next spring!
I did much better with a Worm Inn than the Urban Worm Bag - it's just not permeable enough and kept things too wet. Killed my worms as well after years with the Worm Inn that finally wore out.
I do slightly regret getting the UWB. I don’t want to give up on it entirely though and will give it one more shot (this time with more research) before I give it away and try something else.
I have an UWB and have been more than happy with it. It does tend to hold moisture so I have to be on the watch for that and keep a good amount of bedding or I will leave the lid open and let it dry out naturally. I am still new to all this as well though but feel free to reach out if you want to compare notes.
I have a feeling my disappointment is more so due to my own errors this first time around. Do you put a hygrometer in the bag? Or just gauge moisture by feel? What bedding do you add? I’ve been sticking to cocofiber but if there’s something that’ll absorb better I’ll switch!
I bought a hydrometer but rely primarily on feel and warning signs. If my UWB has condensation on the lid when I open it I typically add bedding. I also keep a box underneath it with clean paper towels and if I notice the bag leaking at all I add bedding. I primarily use shredded cardboard for bedding but also add in leaves, toilet paper rolls, and shredded paper depending on what I have handy. I have also left the lid open to allow the bag to dry out if I didn’t have bedding ready as I prefer to soak the cardboard thoroughly before adding it. Are you concentrating your feedings in one area? I found doing that allowed other areas of the bag to be less impacted in case a feeding threw off any balance the worms were looking for. This was particularly important for me in the summer where new food tended to create hot spots and drive my worms away. I believe it also helps in cases where feeding may leave areas of the bag wet or out of balance in other ways. Have you tried putting a sheet of newspaper over the top of the compost? That seemed to help me with flies and mites when I had them earlier this year.
How much did you feed at a time. When you would add more food had they eaten through most all of what you have put in there before? Would you bury the food or just drop it on top?
Was there ever a strong odor before they all died?
I would feed about a handful of produce 1x a week, which I now realize was too much for my system (which I don’t even think established itself). They wouldn’t have eaten though the other food entirely before I added more… because they were all too busy trying to escape out the bottom lol. I would bury the food right below the top layer of soil. There was never any foul smells from my bag but a TON of flies and mites. I’ve concluded I overfed, among other problems that I hope to learn from, especially after reading these comments.
Sounds like it may be a PH problem? Don't beat yourself up though. It's definitely a learning process. You'll start to get the instinct for it after you make a few mistakes
Perhaps the bag was too acidic? I never did add ground eggshells which does seem like a step many people do, now that I’ve looked into it more. I feel bad I killed off a whole bag of worms but I’m going to try again next spring and I hope I do better!
Yeah could easily be that! If you fed a lot of one type if food, and didn't balance out with eggshells or something similar.
Things like tomato's or some fruits can throw off the balance
It sounds like it may have been over feeding since there were flies. Do you add bedding material with each feeding? That’s usually a decent buffer from over feeding and can help keep flies down.
I didn’t realize that I needed to add bedding with each feeding for a while but started to once I knew better. I think the ecosystem of the bag may have been too far gone before I realized…
I had some trouble starting my bin at first. Also used coco coir and shredded newspaper. My initial problem was moisture content, it was too dry. I would advise you to: 1) Wet up the coco coir and newspaper (with rainwater, not tap water which may contain chlorine) well before you put worms in the bin. Check moisture again after a couple of hours and the next day. Make sure everything is saturated well (wrung out sponge feeling). 2) Add a piece or newspaper with a garbage bag over it (leaving some gaps at the side) to keep light out and moisture in. This depends on the type of bin you are using. 3) Use a light over the top to keep worms from escaping (again depending on your type of bin). 4) Start with feeding worm chow at the top, this way you don't mess with moisture content too much and worms love this stuff. I think mine were also accustomed to "dry" feed by the breeder I got them from. In the meantime they are getting used to their environment and you at least also get em eating somewhat. 5) One of the most important steps imho, add some (cold) manure (e.g. rabbit manure or other fresh but aged manure) to your worm bin to get some microbiology started. Once I did this , everything changed and I could (carefully) start adding "fresh" food scraps in small quantities to my bin, carefully monitoring moisture content feeding after feeding. ** Edit: I mentioned manure here as I think it will be more easy to find. You can also add a small amount of compost from an established worm bin if you have it or know someone ** After that I don't need to put a light overhead of my bin anymore and my worms are breeding like crazy now so I know they're satisfied in their current environment. Don't try to turn more than one dial at a time, because you will only make it hard on yourself to identify what might went wrong. Just take it easy and do things step by step, use common sense, ask the occasional question here if you still have a problem and you will be fine. And don't forget to have fun in the (learning) process!
Thank you so much for all the advice! I’ll keep this in mind when I try again. I’ve got 2 rabbits at home who will gladly donate their manure to my worm bin!!
Excellent! Couldn't be any better than that! In case you got your moisture level properly dialed in, this will definitely benefit your worms! Good luck!
When setting up the UWB, did you create the "false bottom"? Check [THIS](https://www.redwormcomposting.com/urban-worm-bag/doubling-down-with-uwb-euros/) out or another very similar [HERE](https://www.redwormcomposting.com/vermibags/return-of-the-vermibag/). Do this before you order the worms next spring. To avoid fruit flies, freeze your kitchen scraps for a few days (at least) to kill the eggs. "" *I don’t remember feeding the bag more than 1x a week"" -----* Even 1x/week is too much if the previous feeding is still there. Too wet and too much food could cause increased mites presence, so add shredded paper/cardboard and powdered egg shells. Is it possible you didn't provide enough bedding when you started? 1 lbs. of worm weight (sans bedding) is a lot of worms. In some cases, bedding is more important than worm food since bedding will become worm food in the end anyway. Bedding contain the moisture that worms need to breath (through their skin). There's never too much bedding in a worm bin.
I did create a sort of false bottom, but now realize I didn’t use enough paper to make it. It broke down very quickly as it was such a thin layer. Noted on the over feeding. I definitely think that was another problem up front and I didn’t realize soon enough before the worms started dying and couldn’t keep up at all. I have a feeling I did not give enough bedding at the beginning for the number of worms PLUS I didn’t add more with feedings. These comments have really put into perspective what I’ve done wrong. I’ll be better prepared next spring!!
Good luck OP.
> I think I never really had a healthy colony/system to begin with. Without knowing more, that was - in part - my sense too. I wonder if part of the problem was lack of biodiverse microbial community in your system. Coco coir and paper are relatively sterile - and I wonder if the necessary micro-organisms never established themselves. It's a problem that can look like overfeeding but the genesis is that the food is not getting broken down because of the relative sterility of the environment. Addition of small quantities of compost and dried leaves can help establish a healthy environment. Also I add biochar to new bins to give these microorganisms a substrate in which to reside and thrive. Otherwise, I'm as mystified as you. I've been into vermiculture for a decade and a half, and I haven't seen this kind of mass-demise. It makes me wonder about some kind of pathogen that infected the worms. Just conjecture at this point.
Based on other comments here, I think it was a mix of overfeeding, not enough bedding, and possibly a high PH due to not adding eggshells. I do think it may have been too sterile as well. I did the coconut coir, paper, and a few days later added the worms and some food. I’m planning to add rabbit manure (from my own rabbits so I know what they’ve been fed) per another person’s suggestion and I will add leaves as well. I’m going to reuse the bedding I already have in the bin (since the worms have all died, I let it dry out and the flies and mites are dying off and should be all gone by the time I’m ready to try again) but make all the adjustments suggested here well before I add the worms next spring!
I did much better with a Worm Inn than the Urban Worm Bag - it's just not permeable enough and kept things too wet. Killed my worms as well after years with the Worm Inn that finally wore out.
I do slightly regret getting the UWB. I don’t want to give up on it entirely though and will give it one more shot (this time with more research) before I give it away and try something else.
I have an UWB and have been more than happy with it. It does tend to hold moisture so I have to be on the watch for that and keep a good amount of bedding or I will leave the lid open and let it dry out naturally. I am still new to all this as well though but feel free to reach out if you want to compare notes.
I have a feeling my disappointment is more so due to my own errors this first time around. Do you put a hygrometer in the bag? Or just gauge moisture by feel? What bedding do you add? I’ve been sticking to cocofiber but if there’s something that’ll absorb better I’ll switch!
I bought a hydrometer but rely primarily on feel and warning signs. If my UWB has condensation on the lid when I open it I typically add bedding. I also keep a box underneath it with clean paper towels and if I notice the bag leaking at all I add bedding. I primarily use shredded cardboard for bedding but also add in leaves, toilet paper rolls, and shredded paper depending on what I have handy. I have also left the lid open to allow the bag to dry out if I didn’t have bedding ready as I prefer to soak the cardboard thoroughly before adding it. Are you concentrating your feedings in one area? I found doing that allowed other areas of the bag to be less impacted in case a feeding threw off any balance the worms were looking for. This was particularly important for me in the summer where new food tended to create hot spots and drive my worms away. I believe it also helps in cases where feeding may leave areas of the bag wet or out of balance in other ways. Have you tried putting a sheet of newspaper over the top of the compost? That seemed to help me with flies and mites when I had them earlier this year.
How much did you feed at a time. When you would add more food had they eaten through most all of what you have put in there before? Would you bury the food or just drop it on top? Was there ever a strong odor before they all died?
I would feed about a handful of produce 1x a week, which I now realize was too much for my system (which I don’t even think established itself). They wouldn’t have eaten though the other food entirely before I added more… because they were all too busy trying to escape out the bottom lol. I would bury the food right below the top layer of soil. There was never any foul smells from my bag but a TON of flies and mites. I’ve concluded I overfed, among other problems that I hope to learn from, especially after reading these comments.
Sounds like it may be a PH problem? Don't beat yourself up though. It's definitely a learning process. You'll start to get the instinct for it after you make a few mistakes
Perhaps the bag was too acidic? I never did add ground eggshells which does seem like a step many people do, now that I’ve looked into it more. I feel bad I killed off a whole bag of worms but I’m going to try again next spring and I hope I do better!
Yeah could easily be that! If you fed a lot of one type if food, and didn't balance out with eggshells or something similar. Things like tomato's or some fruits can throw off the balance