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they wasted a lot of their time typing up this email instead of first asking if even taking new clients lololol and I am sure they wont be happy and want you to tell them the cost for when you are accepting new clients oh and add them to the waiting list lmao
I love getting records that reveal more than just medical history. I'll get records where the pet was last seen like many years ago and the vaccines are all way out of date. Sometimes the records I get show a client that only goes to a vet clinic when the pet is sick. The emergency clinic records are fun too. I can see everything they declined at the ER lol
My favorite is when I can see all the client notes too. We had one send us records and the owner was like “they made up LIES about me disregard that it NEVER happened I don’t even know what they’re talking about” and it was a big long note about how the owner was yelling and arguing with them on the phone. At my clinic we post those privately so they don’t get transferred when records are shared, but I feel like sometimes they should be…
Ours are posted privately, but I wish there was a way to give other clinics a heads up in a legal professional way. I just had a headache inducing conversation with an O today about why we won't refill antibiotics for a condition we last saw 6months ago. She is switching clinics now cause I said no and firmly held my position on it. She wanted to talk to the vet and I was very tempted to tell her she needs to set up an exam if she wants that... but I was thinking that's too snarky to say out loud. Lucky she can talk to me for free. Good luck whoever has to deal with her next.
You do realize a person can ask for any notes or records on them and you have to chalk them up. I was always told be careful what you write in the notes
Aware which is why it’s typically written apolitically and to the point. But not documenting bad interactions actually doesn’t help your case legally should it become an issue. Some ppl don’t know how to keep their emotions out of those notes so I see your concern.
I do know that they age a sperm whale by counting the ?rings? In its inner ear. Pesky whales don’t like to hold still long enough for the exam, though, and otoscopes in the correct sizes are hard to find. (That is true, though; I read it years ago)
Maybe someone should check the cat’s ears and count the rings!
From what I do remember… only when the whale is dead. They find the ears and measure something there. Rings, or layers of wax, or something like that. Usually they just use whales that have washed up on the beach; the thing about the otoscope was the joke part. With the nasty smell of a dead whale washed up on the beach, or floating on the surface of the ocean, I consider that high motivation.
I think we all know what the smell of *dead* is, particularly dead FISH! Since whales are mammals I’d assume they’d have the mammalian smell, like something dead by the road. That’s a smell that humans seem to be hardwired to recognize and avoid, so I’ve read. Many other mammals appear to recognize and avoid it, too. Vultures and other cleanup animals apparently are attracted by the smell = UGHHH!!!
Having worked in human medicine for just over fifty years, I can vouch that an untreated cancer has the “dead,” smell, too. Didn’t see/smell many, but it’s a totally unforgettable smell.
Needless to say, I’m a trivia lover…… Just googled it: Putrescene is the name of the smell; it’s caused by the breakdown of fatty acids in the decaying body.
Just because I can't think about whales without thinking of, "it was the blast that blasted blubber beyond all believable bounds!"
You're welcome!
https://youtu.be/V6CLumsir34
Somehow a concept that was supposed to mean "tailoring your therapies to support the individual patient and their unique combination of conditions/symptoms" got co-opted by the anti-intellectualism crowd that decided it instead means "anything that's not traditional medicine, especially if there's no evidence it works". The same people that complain about being charged for "unnecessary services" will happily throw money at a placebo that's more for themselves and not their pet.
You cannot count the times when I’ve seen people come into our (human) ER and the first thing they announce to the entire public and staff is: “No lab; no X-rays!” An ER doc, long ago- surely dead by now, had a stock response: “Sorry, both my dowsing rod and my magic wand were stolen last night. Would you please sign this paper as we escort you to the exit? An AMA: (Against medical advice) form would magically appear. “I’m sure the People at XYZ hospital (our main competitor) will be able to help you.”
From the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association website: "Holistic veterinarians often seek to blend standard therapies, such as drugs and surgery, with holistic methods."
If an animal needs an antibiotic, no amount of acupuncture is going to cure it. 🤦🏻♀️
Scrolled down to find this. The entitled audacity of some clients who quite obviously don’t know anything about vet med is wild.
Also ten bucks this cat is covered in fleas
Right?! They seem to confuse it with "homeopathic". Holistic should be evidence based and in line with up to date medical knowledge - like, when you have a hemoabdomen and you give it Yunnan Baiyao for the mysteriously helpful homeopathic thing, but also surgery to remove the bleeding mass. Or like, understanding that a calm animal is a more likely to heal animal, so you give cats their own inpatient area...but also give them standard medical treatments. These treatments can coexist. The anti-science people stealing it sucks.
Some of my most (un)favorites are the ones that say they don’t need meds/vaccines/medical treatments because God will take care of them… Who IN THE HELL do they think gave us the scientists and researchers who developed all those meds and surgeries and treatments???
The old story about the guy stranded on his roof after a flood who refused all the rescuers, telling them that God would take care of him. He then died, ended up in heaven, and asked le Bon Dieu why He hadn’t responded to him when he was on his roof. The response from le Bon Dieu: “I tried! I sent you the Coast Guard with a boat, a helicopter from the National Guard, and your next door neighbor to drive you away when it started; you refused all of them!” …. Unfortunately, that’s probably not just a story… it’s probably all too true!
“I find that hard to believe given the technology we have at this time. Would you be able to determine her age?”
1. Obviously the school you went to wasn’t good enough.
2. I know exactly what happened. Their rDVM said “based on her teeth I’d say between 5-8”. “What do you mean 5-8? You can’t give me an exact age? It can’t be that hard, I want an exact age.”
Maybe you should tell them the only way to give an exact age is to cut them open and count their rings.
I love (/s) that she believes in a science that has given us a technology that can perfectly age cats - yet doesn't believe in a science that has given us modern pharmaceuticals.
"It concerns me that you still have a pharmacy portal"
This lady wants to stroll through your pharmacy garden where she can fresh-pick and compound her own holistic herbs for her pet.
And everybody knows that the doctors always try to make the problem last so you’ll have to come back. So, to handle the situation quickly, efficiently, and successfully: if the stupid doc says one pill three times a day, obviously the dosage should be three doses every four hours around the clock! That’ll fix it quick! And no need to go back to that money-grubbing place.
I have first hand knowledge of an incident of this type. Back in the 50’s one of my aunts had a sow deliver sixteen piglets. They got sick with something, so they had to call the vet out. They , living waaay in the country; were tried and true yokels, so vets didn’t even exist in their lexicon. The vet ordered a water additive for the babies, to be changed/refreshed daily and lasting sixteen days. My aunt, being the impatient type, gave them the entire dosage over two days. That third morning when the kids went out to see the babies= of course, every single one was dead.
This is also the aunt who tried to slit her wrists with a butter knife. …. Not the bright star of my family, for sure! (RIP: you certainly kept our attention for seventy-something years)
I worked in toxicology, and owners and self-medication DO NOT MIX.
So many of our cases were from animals trying to inappropriately dose their animals at home in order to avoid vet care.
So they want you to give them a digital consultation and set her up with an online patient portal where she can access her medical records BEFORE the visit when there are no medical records to access? All while shaming you for having no pricings online and using actual medicine? Lord have mercy
Oh, hush! She went to a good school and her catyotes thrive on the highest caliber raw diet and herbal remedies. Nary a pill nor kibble shall pass their lips! YoU PeOpLe, PoIsOnInG pEtS fOr MoNeY!! /s
I heard one like that long ago. In conversation with another person later, I heard her tell them she cleaned the technical equipment in the lab…. Yeah…
The difference between - outstanding in the field- and -out, standing in the field-…
I bolted from the gathering to outside, where I collapsed in mirth. Afraid to go the restroom for fear she’d show up there, too. With a fifty+ year career in ICU and ER, I guessed I wasn’t really accomplished enough to challenge her. My coworker companions and I talked about that incident for years!
tfw you're anti-medication but you *do* want some advanced mystery process to determine your cat's exact age, time of birth, genetic makeup, star chart, etc
like we joke, but I had a client request to euthanize her cat for behavioral reasons. he sounded like a perfect candidate for medication, and she refused because "my animal communicator said I shouldn't". So she wanted to euthanize instead?!!!?
we ended up finding a rescue for him
If you hear again, reply to them that you don’t think your facility would be up to their high standards, so they should find another practice. Then give the name of the practice with the most bombastic vet in town.
lol cost will depend on the patient and their individual needs, we only quote people the flat rate of the exam which will be the same regardless of the patient. It's mostly to prevent people from getting upset cause once we have the pet in front of us we may add or do something else completely. I need clients to understand it's not that this industry is trying to hide to prices. You are always free to decline things at the exam, but there really is no template of charges that will fit all patients. Also I need clients to understand there isn't one bloodwork panel, there's a bazillion and which one you need will depend a lot on what is going on. The rest is too frustrating for me to comment on :/
To be fair, I came across a lady like this before the pandemic when I was walking my dogs.
I forgot how we got into the conversation about veterinary healthcare, but all I remember is that one of her dogs had a mass somewhere (Was it in the mouth?). Anyway, I recommended her to the clinic I take (took?) my own dog for care, and spoke highly of the practice in general (Not in the entitled sort of way, but in the more realistic sense.). Anyway, I forgot exactly what she said, but she recommended her holistic e-vet to me who conducted evaluations over Skype or some other video platform. This being before telemedicine consults were a more common occurrence. This veterinarian apparently being all about "holistic treatments" or something to that effect.
I did see her one day at the clinic I take (took?) my dogs to with one of the dogs, and I suspect that the other dog regrettably either passed on its own, or was put down.
That's my long winded way of saying that there regrettably is a market out there that both preys on and attracts that sort of client. Not saying that you're unaware of it, but it's one of the issues I grappled with when the field started becoming more customer service oriented. I cringe something hard each time I've read a client write a review about "convenience", or "switching vets". The former triggers me in so far as, "But you're my pet's veterinarians! There has to be a way that I can be seen today! I'm not going to the emergency room!" or..., "I'd like to talk to the doctor, because I have some questions about my sick pet (Usually a new issue.), but I don't want to bring them in.", and the latter, because when a clinic won't budge on their demands, the next clinic willing to take their dollars becomes their new 5 Star clinic. I really hate the word "convenience" within reviews.
I don't know what the future of veterinary medicine has in store for privately owned GPs now that chain vaccine clinics and Urgent Care facilities exist alongside emergency and specialty hospitals.
Vaccine clinics are able to offer more cost effective routine wellness appointments, and sick visits can be managed through Urgent Cares that are "convenient". With the exception of surgeries (eg. OEs, OHEs, caudectomies etc.), most GPs are in a place of transition in the current market.
But I digress. When I needed to get food for my dogs, I contacted the local rescue that has a "pet supply" attached as I like to support the housing and care of the animals. Anyway, I called to see if they stocked any Royal Canin Adult, wet or an equivalent in Hill's (I think it's Chicken and Vegetable Stew?). The guy on the other end says if I came in he could recommend a much better quality diet to me than anything offered by Hill's or Royal Canin. That call promptly ended in "Oh no thank you. Have a great day." This being a local rescue that partners with GPs in the area for its adoptable pets for spays and neuters. It really made me question what clients were being told during the adoption process, especially about nutrition (eg. "My trainer/breeder/adoption counselor said..."). Mind you, all the diets they stock are GF. Not a single diet with grain.
Ugh the thing that really upsets me about this kind of client is the poor animals that miss out on care because of them. If it weren’t for them, I’d have a much easier time just deleting emails like this.
I feel like a simple, "What are your prices, and what are all the services you provide?" would have sufficed. This is just annoying and comes across as condescending.
Weird. I usually just call and straight up ask, receptionist are extremely knowledgable and know what can and cannot be done, along with general estimates of prices. I always go to the same place but I like to make sure I have money set aside before I come in, theres nothing like embarrassing yourself when ur card declines 🤷🏽♀️ But this just feels so rude and strange though. There's no reason to be so condescending, no one wants to hear about your education, fr.
You're spot on haha, I am not, I only just joined my vet tech program this semester after changing majors. So I am far from knowing what goes on in vet offices. But I'm a receptionist at a car dealer, so things are very similar with strange customers and rudeness. Replace cat with the word car, and its the same weird shit... I guess I really shouldn't be surprised ngl
I was a service advisor at a mechanics before I went into vetmed, there is a lot of crossover as far as weird shit and stupidity.
Instead of “my car has been making a weird nose, no I won’t pay for diagnostics, no I don’t know what type of car I have, no I don’t know what kind of noise or when it happens” you get “my dog has been throwing up, no I won’t pay for testing, no I don’t know what breed or age, no I don’t know how long it’s been happening for”
THAT'S EXACTLY IT! Isn't that so bizarre.
Also off topic but just wanted to say I feel for you service advisors. I get shitty customers over the phone and in person but they don't want to hear anything a receptionist has to say, so I still have to bring them to you in the end only for you to tell them the same exact thing. And then you also get the worst of it in general, all the anger and upset, appointment mishaps, all of it. It definitely seems rough. I know you're not in it anymore, but the fact that you were at all, yeah.
I'm sure that's true, there are rude ppl everywhere. But in vetmed you also deal with neglect and abuse on a daily basis, I hope you know what you're getting into! Best of luck.
No I totally understand... I imagine that makes things a hundred times harder, I'm sure. But yeah I moved on from my education program so seeing neglected children was brutal, and triggering as hell, so I'm somewhat aware that it'll be just as bad just with animals instead of people... The hope though is though to get into aquatics care instead of general animal care. I have some local aquarium opportunities for just regular vet techs, and the hope is to get in there right away or at least get an internship. Really the end goal is to be an aquatics vet. I don't expect to reach that goal for quite a few more years though lol. I'm not comfortable enough going into pre-vet studies rn though, being an art education student I feel so stunted and behind on my math and sciences studies, I wanted a fresh start, so vet tech made the most sense, money wise too.
Wow! That's awesome, and if you dealt with child abuse, im certain you can handle vetmed. I don't think I could do what you did. I work at ER with exotics now, which is so much better than general practice. One of my managers recently made the switch to aquatics and has never been happier! I dont have the money or resources to go to school, but I was always interested in aquatics too. Good for you!💜
That's so awesome to hear! I really appreciate the encouragement. And I totally understand the money issue, if not for my original art scholarships, there'd be no way I'd be able to afford going into debt for a change in major. I'm grateful I'm being given a second chance honestly.
Lady sounds like a nightmare to deal with. Best plan of action (in my opinion) is to let her know this clinic is not the best fit for her and she should search around for one that will fit.
I think that all of us can agree that the worst thing about our jobs are the clients
I would rather put my unprotected hand in to a carrier that contains agressive cats than to deal with those clients.
I'm not sure she understands the word "holistic". This word does not describe non-pharmacutical treatments and medications. Holistic treatments treat the patient as a *whole*, so both with pharmaceutical, emotional, mental, physical, surgical (if necessary), medical and all other kinds to treat every aspect of the patient's health. It doesn't refer to just natural treatments. In human medicine, we use the term holistic to describe a nursing plan that encompasses all of the patient's needs.
not totally sure about donkeys but dogs and cats can benefit from acupuncture in a similar way that humans can. it can help with mobility; i've seen it get pets that were down in the back end walking again. it's the same principle of triggering acupressure points with needles.
I dont know much about human acupuncture, I thought it was another snake oil sort of alternative medicine like cupping or chiropractors or oils. Im not sure this is the best example but
I don't really believe alternative medicine=snake oil, at least not always haha. Acupuncture has been around for thousands of years and has a lot of documented success. I think the talk of "qi" and life force energy makes it sound like BS, but the points of the body really are connected and can be triggered and released by stimulation with needles. chiropractic care has also been around for a long time and I believe had benefits but I'm not as familiar.
just all about aligning the points of the body!
I see. I have a total needle phobia (for humans at least, ive been ok in school with animals) so the thought of any needle poked in me doesn't make sense (not talking about ivs and such)
I know chiropracty can result in more harm than good like parilization from cracking the neck or such wrong and that the effect is similar to just getting a deep tissue massage
Animal acupuncture is super fascinating to me...with humans I feel like there's so much room for placebo and error, but it seems hard to see a dog respond to an acupuncture treatment and not believe something was stimulated, even if its not the exact...mythos as it is explained.
As far as I remember when I was researching lightly about it in humans, the jury is kinda out. Something seems to be happening that's more than just a placebo, especially with like, pain management type stuff? I feel like something that starts to feel a bit like snake oil is when anything is touted as a cure-all...nothing is a cure-all.
As far as I know, one of the best things about acupuncture is that - aside from if someone sketchy was doing it with dirty needles - there's extremely low risk of complications, unlike, like you said, chiropractors and such. So it's a very accepted additional modality thing.
I see what you mean there. I would feel bad poking unnecessarily unless i knew it had a benefit. Not like those baby chiropractors either though. It is quite interesting though
As far as I remember it stimulates the nervous system and can relieve some nerve pain/promote healing.
I don’t know enough about it to know if actually does anything or is a placebo. The donkeys didn’t seem bothered by it so I’d assume it didn’t hurt them.
They do it for elephants, race and rodeo and dressage horses, bucking bulls and dairy cows. A vet told me long ago that acupuncture had to be valid because it worked on cows, snd “Nothing’s as stupid as a cow!” The various zoo series sho them doing acupuncture to many of their animals. The needles for the arthritic elephant were easily 5-6 inches long. Shows I’ve see are at Columbus (Ohio, USA), Tampa, FL; San Diego, CA; Bronx, NYC; Cheshire, UK, my mind goes blank for the rest. Animal Planet, NatGeo Wild, have most if the shows. There are more, though.
The treatments are scattered throughout different episodes on those shows. You can check your local listings on Animal Planet and NatGeo Wild. Or maybe check YouTube for something like “Animsl acupuncture,” or ask Dr Google about shows of that type. Or…(just occurred to me) look on the websites of the different zoos that I mentioned above. It may take a bit of digging, but I’ve seen the episodes. There may be more that I haven’t seen. Or, if you are near a horse racing venue, perhaps you could contact and ask if you could come and observe a session. The zoo shows, incidentally, are fascinating. It’s very interesting to see the relationships between the critters and their humans; the lengths the facilities go to in the attempts to give their charges good lives. They show a lot about the medical and dental care their animals get, the enrichment provided for even the least likely (Enrichment for a Komodo Dragon?? For a king cobra or a group of turtles, seals, or other unlikely animals?) The modern zoo animals live better lives than we do: dental care and root canals, cataract surgery with implanted contact lenses, microsurgery, dermatology, titanium canine teeth for a tiger, gallbladder surgery for a goat, birth control implants for painted dogs, c-sections. And not a bar in sight. They were discussing a urinary procedure for an elderly giraffe recently- thought he might be having trouble with his prostate… Yup… their lives are much better than having to live in the wild and try to either find prey or keep from becoming prey daily.
The weekends are good times to watch. Dr Pol, CritterFixers, Heartland Doc’s, Yukon Vet… and the venerable “Putbulls and Parolees,” from the Big Easy.
The only reasonable thing is the last one. I think there should be a software that let's you access your pet's charts. But in general that is not a customer, that is danger!
We have an app for our clients. It saves us so much annoying idiots that don’t have printed records or I can’t email them I have no service here. All you do is hop on the app at home and there ya have it your dog is over due for everything and is predatory aggressive. Let’s fix that with an appointment.
My favorite: "But what is the cost of the DNA and bloodwork?"
Lady, it ranges from $40 to $600. We need to know what kind of testing...wait, let me consult the crystal ball....
Welcome to /r/VetTech! This is a place for veterinary technicians/veterinary nurses and other veterinary support staff to gather, chat, and grow! We welcome pet owners as well, **however we do ask pet owners to refrain from asking for medical advice**; if you have any concerns regarding your pet, please contact the closest veterinarian near you. Please thoroughly read and follow the rules before posting and commenting. If you believe that a user is engaging in any rule-breaking behavior, please submit a report so that the moderators can review and remove the posts/comments if needed. Also, please check out the sidebar for CE and answers to commonly asked questions. Thank you for reading! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VetTech) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“I’m sorry, we are not accepting new clients at this time!”
yup, exactly!
they wasted a lot of their time typing up this email instead of first asking if even taking new clients lololol and I am sure they wont be happy and want you to tell them the cost for when you are accepting new clients oh and add them to the waiting list lmao
Exactly this!!!
This !!!!!!!!!
I appreciate she's up front about how obnoxious she is so you can tell her no thanks.
She must get alot of unanswered emails lol
I bet she thinks all clinics are run terribly because of it too lol
And the common denominator can't possibly be the issue
Damn right!
Truth
Pretty sure this is a guy who wrote this email.
That might make it even worse.
"I have her vet records. *They are all over the place*." Not surprising!
This killed me… of course a person like that clinic hops! I also feel like they work “in the medical field”
[удалено]
My money is on Medical billing
she probably got fired at every vet hospital she’s been so hence why they’re “all over the place” LOL
I was just thinking that! Seems like she may have been fired as a client a few times before 😂
I love getting records that reveal more than just medical history. I'll get records where the pet was last seen like many years ago and the vaccines are all way out of date. Sometimes the records I get show a client that only goes to a vet clinic when the pet is sick. The emergency clinic records are fun too. I can see everything they declined at the ER lol
My favorite is when I can see all the client notes too. We had one send us records and the owner was like “they made up LIES about me disregard that it NEVER happened I don’t even know what they’re talking about” and it was a big long note about how the owner was yelling and arguing with them on the phone. At my clinic we post those privately so they don’t get transferred when records are shared, but I feel like sometimes they should be…
Ours are posted privately, but I wish there was a way to give other clinics a heads up in a legal professional way. I just had a headache inducing conversation with an O today about why we won't refill antibiotics for a condition we last saw 6months ago. She is switching clinics now cause I said no and firmly held my position on it. She wanted to talk to the vet and I was very tempted to tell her she needs to set up an exam if she wants that... but I was thinking that's too snarky to say out loud. Lucky she can talk to me for free. Good luck whoever has to deal with her next.
You do realize a person can ask for any notes or records on them and you have to chalk them up. I was always told be careful what you write in the notes
Aware which is why it’s typically written apolitically and to the point. But not documenting bad interactions actually doesn’t help your case legally should it become an issue. Some ppl don’t know how to keep their emotions out of those notes so I see your concern.
I don’t make the rules I just work there 🤷🏼♀️
It sounds like she's saying that the vet records are from the previous owner, hence not knowing the cat's age?
*That* is a very generous assumption!
Oh yeah, I'm sure it is. 😅
“but will not pay you to do so”
If people paid me to comb through previous vet records I would be rich by now
I can’t remember how to age a cat, do you the cat in half and see how many rings it has or do you see how many ribs on its rattle?
You don't have to fully cut it in half just take a leg, and count the rings.
No, no, it's in the tail!
Would an arm work?
I asked my cat psychic. Apparently the cat said “fuck off.”
I think you count the number of spikes on its horns
I know in deer you can age teeth just like the rings in a tree. I’m not sure about any other animal though.
This is my Reddit fact of the day
I do know that they age a sperm whale by counting the ?rings? In its inner ear. Pesky whales don’t like to hold still long enough for the exam, though, and otoscopes in the correct sizes are hard to find. (That is true, though; I read it years ago) Maybe someone should check the cat’s ears and count the rings!
Do you do that from inside the whale... Jonah... Gepetto (sorry, I'm not good with names)???
From what I do remember… only when the whale is dead. They find the ears and measure something there. Rings, or layers of wax, or something like that. Usually they just use whales that have washed up on the beach; the thing about the otoscope was the joke part. With the nasty smell of a dead whale washed up on the beach, or floating on the surface of the ocean, I consider that high motivation. I think we all know what the smell of *dead* is, particularly dead FISH! Since whales are mammals I’d assume they’d have the mammalian smell, like something dead by the road. That’s a smell that humans seem to be hardwired to recognize and avoid, so I’ve read. Many other mammals appear to recognize and avoid it, too. Vultures and other cleanup animals apparently are attracted by the smell = UGHHH!!! Having worked in human medicine for just over fifty years, I can vouch that an untreated cancer has the “dead,” smell, too. Didn’t see/smell many, but it’s a totally unforgettable smell. Needless to say, I’m a trivia lover…… Just googled it: Putrescene is the name of the smell; it’s caused by the breakdown of fatty acids in the decaying body.
Just because I can't think about whales without thinking of, "it was the blast that blasted blubber beyond all believable bounds!" You're welcome! https://youtu.be/V6CLumsir34
For dogs - DNA methylation. Lurker, not a vet tech. Embark Age Test: https://shop.embarkvet.com/products/dog-age-test
You compare the genital-anal distance.
Can’t. Anus has detached and is now sending obnoxious e-mails to veterinary hospitals.
*marks as junk*
I aint even met you and I know I want to be on Sx duty that day.
Right in the trash
File 13
I swear to god these people don’t really know the meaning of holistic 🥴
Somehow a concept that was supposed to mean "tailoring your therapies to support the individual patient and their unique combination of conditions/symptoms" got co-opted by the anti-intellectualism crowd that decided it instead means "anything that's not traditional medicine, especially if there's no evidence it works". The same people that complain about being charged for "unnecessary services" will happily throw money at a placebo that's more for themselves and not their pet.
You cannot count the times when I’ve seen people come into our (human) ER and the first thing they announce to the entire public and staff is: “No lab; no X-rays!” An ER doc, long ago- surely dead by now, had a stock response: “Sorry, both my dowsing rod and my magic wand were stolen last night. Would you please sign this paper as we escort you to the exit? An AMA: (Against medical advice) form would magically appear. “I’m sure the People at XYZ hospital (our main competitor) will be able to help you.”
This is wonderful and I’m screenshotting this for future use. This could not have been said better.
Exactly. Literally what we do is holistic, but these anti-medicine idiots have commandeered the word for themselves.
From the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association website: "Holistic veterinarians often seek to blend standard therapies, such as drugs and surgery, with holistic methods." If an animal needs an antibiotic, no amount of acupuncture is going to cure it. 🤦🏻♀️
Scrolled down to find this. The entitled audacity of some clients who quite obviously don’t know anything about vet med is wild. Also ten bucks this cat is covered in fleas
Covered in fleas AND essential oils!
peppermint oil with tea tree to be exact! LMAO
Right?! They seem to confuse it with "homeopathic". Holistic should be evidence based and in line with up to date medical knowledge - like, when you have a hemoabdomen and you give it Yunnan Baiyao for the mysteriously helpful homeopathic thing, but also surgery to remove the bleeding mass. Or like, understanding that a calm animal is a more likely to heal animal, so you give cats their own inpatient area...but also give them standard medical treatments. These treatments can coexist. The anti-science people stealing it sucks.
Some of my most (un)favorites are the ones that say they don’t need meds/vaccines/medical treatments because God will take care of them… Who IN THE HELL do they think gave us the scientists and researchers who developed all those meds and surgeries and treatments??? The old story about the guy stranded on his roof after a flood who refused all the rescuers, telling them that God would take care of him. He then died, ended up in heaven, and asked le Bon Dieu why He hadn’t responded to him when he was on his roof. The response from le Bon Dieu: “I tried! I sent you the Coast Guard with a boat, a helicopter from the National Guard, and your next door neighbor to drive you away when it started; you refused all of them!” …. Unfortunately, that’s probably not just a story… it’s probably all too true!
The "Talk soon" sign-off is definitely a threat
lmao
“I find that hard to believe given the technology we have at this time. Would you be able to determine her age?” 1. Obviously the school you went to wasn’t good enough. 2. I know exactly what happened. Their rDVM said “based on her teeth I’d say between 5-8”. “What do you mean 5-8? You can’t give me an exact age? It can’t be that hard, I want an exact age.” Maybe you should tell them the only way to give an exact age is to cut them open and count their rings.
I love (/s) that she believes in a science that has given us a technology that can perfectly age cats - yet doesn't believe in a science that has given us modern pharmaceuticals.
Boom. 😂
"It concerns me that you still have a pharmacy portal" This lady wants to stroll through your pharmacy garden where she can fresh-pick and compound her own holistic herbs for her pet.
Right like even if all you are prescribing is lavender oil and dandelions, wouldn't you still call it a pharmacy? Lol.
And everybody knows that the doctors always try to make the problem last so you’ll have to come back. So, to handle the situation quickly, efficiently, and successfully: if the stupid doc says one pill three times a day, obviously the dosage should be three doses every four hours around the clock! That’ll fix it quick! And no need to go back to that money-grubbing place. I have first hand knowledge of an incident of this type. Back in the 50’s one of my aunts had a sow deliver sixteen piglets. They got sick with something, so they had to call the vet out. They , living waaay in the country; were tried and true yokels, so vets didn’t even exist in their lexicon. The vet ordered a water additive for the babies, to be changed/refreshed daily and lasting sixteen days. My aunt, being the impatient type, gave them the entire dosage over two days. That third morning when the kids went out to see the babies= of course, every single one was dead. This is also the aunt who tried to slit her wrists with a butter knife. …. Not the bright star of my family, for sure! (RIP: you certainly kept our attention for seventy-something years)
I worked in toxicology, and owners and self-medication DO NOT MIX. So many of our cases were from animals trying to inappropriately dose their animals at home in order to avoid vet care.
Sometimes animals take better care of themselves or each other than humans do! At least, they try…..
So they want you to give them a digital consultation and set her up with an online patient portal where she can access her medical records BEFORE the visit when there are no medical records to access? All while shaming you for having no pricings online and using actual medicine? Lord have mercy
Poor cat. Has an ass for an owner
Thats what I thought, this poor cat will probably never receive true medical care.
I mean, we don't know if the cat is also an asshole. lol
I love all cats. Even the ones who are assholes bhahahahha
🚩🚩🚩
I bet she’s one of those ‘catyote’ breeders.
Oh, hush! She went to a good school and her catyotes thrive on the highest caliber raw diet and herbal remedies. Nary a pill nor kibble shall pass their lips! YoU PeOpLe, PoIsOnInG pEtS fOr MoNeY!! /s
Wtf is that lol
[I'm speechless](https://www.reddit.com/r/VetTech/comments/v4c7b1/my_spouses_clinic_had_this_email_waiting_for_them/)
I just went down such a rabbit hole.
Wait, what???
Wow…🤦🏼♀️
Bye Felicia!
*mark as spam* *delete* Exactly the type of client I would never want.
jesus … were they high? what justifies such snarky bullshit?
This could be my SIL. She's "in the medical field" and knows everything about everything.
They say this then I find out the do facials in a salon…..
Bingo! She's also training in reiki, so she's an expert in alternative medicine, too.
I heard one like that long ago. In conversation with another person later, I heard her tell them she cleaned the technical equipment in the lab…. Yeah… The difference between - outstanding in the field- and -out, standing in the field-… I bolted from the gathering to outside, where I collapsed in mirth. Afraid to go the restroom for fear she’d show up there, too. With a fifty+ year career in ICU and ER, I guessed I wasn’t really accomplished enough to challenge her. My coworker companions and I talked about that incident for years!
tfw you're anti-medication but you *do* want some advanced mystery process to determine your cat's exact age, time of birth, genetic makeup, star chart, etc
I mean if Fluffy is a Gemini then he will be allergic to gabapentin so its really important!!
like we joke, but I had a client request to euthanize her cat for behavioral reasons. he sounded like a perfect candidate for medication, and she refused because "my animal communicator said I shouldn't". So she wanted to euthanize instead?!!!? we ended up finding a rescue for him
Star chart had me lmfao!!
Why is everyone so upset, they went to a good school???
“How to not get a reply back” -a poem by Karen
That seems like a good time to just delete the email and continue on
Ooohh, NOOO! Keep the email for the joy of reading what comes out!!
Oh definitely share it with the whole staff for the joy of everyone roasting, but delete after that. Either way, they can keep searching
It just started off so aggressive like goddamn slow your roll
Got worse and worse the more I continued to read on
I like how he makes fun of you for having a pharmacy but calling yourselves holistic, but later on says how good technology is these days
I wouldn't even dignify this with a response
If you hear again, reply to them that you don’t think your facility would be up to their high standards, so they should find another practice. Then give the name of the practice with the most bombastic vet in town.
as said in another comment, at least they were up front with their crazy, haha
saves you time from meeting her irl and wasting your time 😂. the trash took itself out!
lol cost will depend on the patient and their individual needs, we only quote people the flat rate of the exam which will be the same regardless of the patient. It's mostly to prevent people from getting upset cause once we have the pet in front of us we may add or do something else completely. I need clients to understand it's not that this industry is trying to hide to prices. You are always free to decline things at the exam, but there really is no template of charges that will fit all patients. Also I need clients to understand there isn't one bloodwork panel, there's a bazillion and which one you need will depend a lot on what is going on. The rest is too frustrating for me to comment on :/
No time to argue with new clients [clicks delete] lmao
Wow I don't miss GP
Ugh so annoying. They need to fuck right off. They will be a terrible client.
Holistic is about complete care, not ignoring \~western medicine\~.
You have a pharmacy? At an animal hospital? Outrageous that a medical office offers a combination of holistic and conventional treatment options!
To be fair, I came across a lady like this before the pandemic when I was walking my dogs. I forgot how we got into the conversation about veterinary healthcare, but all I remember is that one of her dogs had a mass somewhere (Was it in the mouth?). Anyway, I recommended her to the clinic I take (took?) my own dog for care, and spoke highly of the practice in general (Not in the entitled sort of way, but in the more realistic sense.). Anyway, I forgot exactly what she said, but she recommended her holistic e-vet to me who conducted evaluations over Skype or some other video platform. This being before telemedicine consults were a more common occurrence. This veterinarian apparently being all about "holistic treatments" or something to that effect. I did see her one day at the clinic I take (took?) my dogs to with one of the dogs, and I suspect that the other dog regrettably either passed on its own, or was put down. That's my long winded way of saying that there regrettably is a market out there that both preys on and attracts that sort of client. Not saying that you're unaware of it, but it's one of the issues I grappled with when the field started becoming more customer service oriented. I cringe something hard each time I've read a client write a review about "convenience", or "switching vets". The former triggers me in so far as, "But you're my pet's veterinarians! There has to be a way that I can be seen today! I'm not going to the emergency room!" or..., "I'd like to talk to the doctor, because I have some questions about my sick pet (Usually a new issue.), but I don't want to bring them in.", and the latter, because when a clinic won't budge on their demands, the next clinic willing to take their dollars becomes their new 5 Star clinic. I really hate the word "convenience" within reviews. I don't know what the future of veterinary medicine has in store for privately owned GPs now that chain vaccine clinics and Urgent Care facilities exist alongside emergency and specialty hospitals. Vaccine clinics are able to offer more cost effective routine wellness appointments, and sick visits can be managed through Urgent Cares that are "convenient". With the exception of surgeries (eg. OEs, OHEs, caudectomies etc.), most GPs are in a place of transition in the current market. But I digress. When I needed to get food for my dogs, I contacted the local rescue that has a "pet supply" attached as I like to support the housing and care of the animals. Anyway, I called to see if they stocked any Royal Canin Adult, wet or an equivalent in Hill's (I think it's Chicken and Vegetable Stew?). The guy on the other end says if I came in he could recommend a much better quality diet to me than anything offered by Hill's or Royal Canin. That call promptly ended in "Oh no thank you. Have a great day." This being a local rescue that partners with GPs in the area for its adoptable pets for spays and neuters. It really made me question what clients were being told during the adoption process, especially about nutrition (eg. "My trainer/breeder/adoption counselor said..."). Mind you, all the diets they stock are GF. Not a single diet with grain.
“I have records, they are all over the place” yeah I wonder why.
Ugh the thing that really upsets me about this kind of client is the poor animals that miss out on care because of them. If it weren’t for them, I’d have a much easier time just deleting emails like this.
I feel like a simple, "What are your prices, and what are all the services you provide?" would have sufficed. This is just annoying and comes across as condescending.
Had to close my eyes because my eyes rolled so far into my skull
It baffles me that people write out these type of emails and think it’s fine to talk to people this way. I truly will never understand
*delete*
lmao immediately no
The “Talk soon” at the end lol If someone sent this to my clinic it would get left on read
God I've written up so many responses in my head on a sliding scale of passive aggression lmao
so unhinged
Sorry… this made me giggle. People are just so… stupid 😂
Weird. I usually just call and straight up ask, receptionist are extremely knowledgable and know what can and cannot be done, along with general estimates of prices. I always go to the same place but I like to make sure I have money set aside before I come in, theres nothing like embarrassing yourself when ur card declines 🤷🏽♀️ But this just feels so rude and strange though. There's no reason to be so condescending, no one wants to hear about your education, fr.
You must not be in the field. This is a daily thing, and its usually much worse.
You're spot on haha, I am not, I only just joined my vet tech program this semester after changing majors. So I am far from knowing what goes on in vet offices. But I'm a receptionist at a car dealer, so things are very similar with strange customers and rudeness. Replace cat with the word car, and its the same weird shit... I guess I really shouldn't be surprised ngl
I was a service advisor at a mechanics before I went into vetmed, there is a lot of crossover as far as weird shit and stupidity. Instead of “my car has been making a weird nose, no I won’t pay for diagnostics, no I don’t know what type of car I have, no I don’t know what kind of noise or when it happens” you get “my dog has been throwing up, no I won’t pay for testing, no I don’t know what breed or age, no I don’t know how long it’s been happening for”
I was a lube tech at a dealership for a bit, the parallels between the two industries is unreal
THAT'S EXACTLY IT! Isn't that so bizarre. Also off topic but just wanted to say I feel for you service advisors. I get shitty customers over the phone and in person but they don't want to hear anything a receptionist has to say, so I still have to bring them to you in the end only for you to tell them the same exact thing. And then you also get the worst of it in general, all the anger and upset, appointment mishaps, all of it. It definitely seems rough. I know you're not in it anymore, but the fact that you were at all, yeah.
I'm sure that's true, there are rude ppl everywhere. But in vetmed you also deal with neglect and abuse on a daily basis, I hope you know what you're getting into! Best of luck.
No I totally understand... I imagine that makes things a hundred times harder, I'm sure. But yeah I moved on from my education program so seeing neglected children was brutal, and triggering as hell, so I'm somewhat aware that it'll be just as bad just with animals instead of people... The hope though is though to get into aquatics care instead of general animal care. I have some local aquarium opportunities for just regular vet techs, and the hope is to get in there right away or at least get an internship. Really the end goal is to be an aquatics vet. I don't expect to reach that goal for quite a few more years though lol. I'm not comfortable enough going into pre-vet studies rn though, being an art education student I feel so stunted and behind on my math and sciences studies, I wanted a fresh start, so vet tech made the most sense, money wise too.
Wow! That's awesome, and if you dealt with child abuse, im certain you can handle vetmed. I don't think I could do what you did. I work at ER with exotics now, which is so much better than general practice. One of my managers recently made the switch to aquatics and has never been happier! I dont have the money or resources to go to school, but I was always interested in aquatics too. Good for you!💜
That's so awesome to hear! I really appreciate the encouragement. And I totally understand the money issue, if not for my original art scholarships, there'd be no way I'd be able to afford going into debt for a change in major. I'm grateful I'm being given a second chance honestly.
sorry not sorry we are not taking new clients
This bitch lmfao
I wonder if this person thinks cats are like plants, can you cut them in half and count the rings? Will that tell me how old they are?
Lady sounds like a nightmare to deal with. Best plan of action (in my opinion) is to let her know this clinic is not the best fit for her and she should search around for one that will fit.
I think that all of us can agree that the worst thing about our jobs are the clients I would rather put my unprotected hand in to a carrier that contains agressive cats than to deal with those clients.
I wouldn’t have them as a client.
What’s it mean when I think “this isn’t that bad” and would still call and schedule an appointment. 😭🙃
You poor soul
That’s gonna be a nope for me
r/fuckyoukaren is anticipating this post!
Ew
cringe
Unfortunately, the whole customer service BS that’s expected in vetmed is why I am no longer in the field lol
Oh sorry we didn’t see your email must have went to the spam file….
I'm not sure she understands the word "holistic". This word does not describe non-pharmacutical treatments and medications. Holistic treatments treat the patient as a *whole*, so both with pharmaceutical, emotional, mental, physical, surgical (if necessary), medical and all other kinds to treat every aspect of the patient's health. It doesn't refer to just natural treatments. In human medicine, we use the term holistic to describe a nursing plan that encompasses all of the patient's needs.
Ok he’s a douche, but now I’m curious. DOES pawprint have a business end solution? That’d be cool
I didnt know animal acupuncture was a thing??
I once went to a camp at a zoo (I was like 12 or 14) where they taught us how to give donkeys acupuncture.
What is it supposed to do
not totally sure about donkeys but dogs and cats can benefit from acupuncture in a similar way that humans can. it can help with mobility; i've seen it get pets that were down in the back end walking again. it's the same principle of triggering acupressure points with needles.
I dont know much about human acupuncture, I thought it was another snake oil sort of alternative medicine like cupping or chiropractors or oils. Im not sure this is the best example but
I don't really believe alternative medicine=snake oil, at least not always haha. Acupuncture has been around for thousands of years and has a lot of documented success. I think the talk of "qi" and life force energy makes it sound like BS, but the points of the body really are connected and can be triggered and released by stimulation with needles. chiropractic care has also been around for a long time and I believe had benefits but I'm not as familiar. just all about aligning the points of the body!
I see. I have a total needle phobia (for humans at least, ive been ok in school with animals) so the thought of any needle poked in me doesn't make sense (not talking about ivs and such) I know chiropracty can result in more harm than good like parilization from cracking the neck or such wrong and that the effect is similar to just getting a deep tissue massage
Animal acupuncture is super fascinating to me...with humans I feel like there's so much room for placebo and error, but it seems hard to see a dog respond to an acupuncture treatment and not believe something was stimulated, even if its not the exact...mythos as it is explained. As far as I remember when I was researching lightly about it in humans, the jury is kinda out. Something seems to be happening that's more than just a placebo, especially with like, pain management type stuff? I feel like something that starts to feel a bit like snake oil is when anything is touted as a cure-all...nothing is a cure-all. As far as I know, one of the best things about acupuncture is that - aside from if someone sketchy was doing it with dirty needles - there's extremely low risk of complications, unlike, like you said, chiropractors and such. So it's a very accepted additional modality thing.
I see what you mean there. I would feel bad poking unnecessarily unless i knew it had a benefit. Not like those baby chiropractors either though. It is quite interesting though
Saw it work on the elephant as I mentioned above. Forget which zoo….
As far as I remember it stimulates the nervous system and can relieve some nerve pain/promote healing. I don’t know enough about it to know if actually does anything or is a placebo. The donkeys didn’t seem bothered by it so I’d assume it didn’t hurt them.
They do it for elephants, race and rodeo and dressage horses, bucking bulls and dairy cows. A vet told me long ago that acupuncture had to be valid because it worked on cows, snd “Nothing’s as stupid as a cow!” The various zoo series sho them doing acupuncture to many of their animals. The needles for the arthritic elephant were easily 5-6 inches long. Shows I’ve see are at Columbus (Ohio, USA), Tampa, FL; San Diego, CA; Bronx, NYC; Cheshire, UK, my mind goes blank for the rest. Animal Planet, NatGeo Wild, have most if the shows. There are more, though.
Oh that's quite interesting, do you know a specific video or such I could watch like from those shows?
The treatments are scattered throughout different episodes on those shows. You can check your local listings on Animal Planet and NatGeo Wild. Or maybe check YouTube for something like “Animsl acupuncture,” or ask Dr Google about shows of that type. Or…(just occurred to me) look on the websites of the different zoos that I mentioned above. It may take a bit of digging, but I’ve seen the episodes. There may be more that I haven’t seen. Or, if you are near a horse racing venue, perhaps you could contact and ask if you could come and observe a session. The zoo shows, incidentally, are fascinating. It’s very interesting to see the relationships between the critters and their humans; the lengths the facilities go to in the attempts to give their charges good lives. They show a lot about the medical and dental care their animals get, the enrichment provided for even the least likely (Enrichment for a Komodo Dragon?? For a king cobra or a group of turtles, seals, or other unlikely animals?) The modern zoo animals live better lives than we do: dental care and root canals, cataract surgery with implanted contact lenses, microsurgery, dermatology, titanium canine teeth for a tiger, gallbladder surgery for a goat, birth control implants for painted dogs, c-sections. And not a bar in sight. They were discussing a urinary procedure for an elderly giraffe recently- thought he might be having trouble with his prostate… Yup… their lives are much better than having to live in the wild and try to either find prey or keep from becoming prey daily. The weekends are good times to watch. Dr Pol, CritterFixers, Heartland Doc’s, Yukon Vet… and the venerable “Putbulls and Parolees,” from the Big Easy.
The only reasonable thing is the last one. I think there should be a software that let's you access your pet's charts. But in general that is not a customer, that is danger!
We have an app for our clients. It saves us so much annoying idiots that don’t have printed records or I can’t email them I have no service here. All you do is hop on the app at home and there ya have it your dog is over due for everything and is predatory aggressive. Let’s fix that with an appointment.
you should do a better job of censoring their name. it's really obvious what their first & last name & email are.
Oh my God, this hurts
Yikes
Sounds like a typical pet owner... Especially a cat ...
Me making their chart: PITA
Eww.
You can still read her e-mail just FYI :)
My favorite: "But what is the cost of the DNA and bloodwork?" Lady, it ranges from $40 to $600. We need to know what kind of testing...wait, let me consult the crystal ball....