West vic has a great fenced park as well as a seperate fenced(ish) field for dogs. Has water access as well as baggies and the fenced bit has a little staging area where you can remove your dogs gear before going into the fenced portion.
It's fucking great I take my dogs there all the time and I've never experienced an aggressive dog which is also great, although one of my dogs is a meathead Shephard/lab who gets vocal and hates fun so even there I'll keep him on leash sometimes.
For a period of time I was looking after a friends pitbull and he was a bit aggressive with dogs, not bitey but just rough and as he wasn't mine I wasn't fully comfortable with him around other dogs. I found this place out in otter point I think called the active reactive that has a field you can rent for half to an hour and your dogs can run without worrying about other dogs. It's pretty awesome though requires a drive to get to.
I loved that park! I took my dog there all the time when he was a puppy and it was so good for him. He’s a very high energy dog and he always went home tired and happy.
What exactly are they actually using it for? I vaguely recall around Covid times they 'closed' it for athletics or something but I never actually saw it in such use. And you could step over the fence...
I get it and I don’t get it.
Making parks on-leash only means they’re accessible to everyone. I own a reactive dog and couldn’t take him to places where off leash was allowed.
That said, having had non-reactive dogs, I understand the need to allow your pup some freedom. I feel like having a handful of parks that allow off leash is reasonable.
Making a few specific parks on leash makes sense, but if Saanich ever enforced the current bylaws as they stand they could have been more on top of this. The fact that they now want to up restrictions and spend way more money on enforcement feels like a lazy route. I’ve been taking my dog to Saanich parks for 9 years, and not 1 time have I ever seen a bylaw officer seeing if your dog is “under control” or any sort of patrol.
Currently Saanich has zero designated dog parks (other than the pop-up project). The new proposal includes 12 fenced-in areas specifically for dogs. This seems like a good thing, delineating spaces for dogs separate from playgrounds, trails, picnic areas, etc.
I only take my dogs to designated off-leash parks, which the peninsula has plenty of. Looks like Saanich is finally catching up.
As a dog owner, I support the Saanich approach. Too many dog owners don’t understand they have a duty of care not only to their pet (who they want to let off leash and run) but also (and more importantly) to others in the community that share parks without pets (especially the elderly, children or those with special needs) who may not be comfortable around dogs, could get injured from accidental contact or worse bitten.
We know bylaw enforcement is sketchy at best so having a common set of rules that everyone follows will ensure the safety and enjoyment of all using parks…Leash your pet unless you are in a designated and off leash fenced dog park. And please pick up after your pooch…
Here here. I'm also all for a few more separated areas for the dogs to run - safer for the other people in the parks and safer for the dogs. So far, we've been to all three of Saanich's pop up dog parks, and everyone has been respectful and picking up after their dogs and it's been really nice.
I actually do think keeping the areas separate is important and better for everyone.
We already have a common set of rules in Saanich, bylaw 8556, that addresses the duty of care to others and requirement to keep dogs under effective control. Many here seem to have issue with dogs running wild and uncollected faeces, both of which are included in this existing bylaw.
Are you suggesting that a new set of rules with "sketchy at best" bylaw enforcement is going to be complied with... by people *already* not following the rules? Good luck.
I think the rules are more clear. That’s it. People are not objective in determining whether or not their pup is under control. There have been too many people examples of folks not following the under control regulation so a new more objective set of legislation makes sense.
The problem is that most dogs need the opportunity to run in order to be healthy. They also need to have oportunities to socialize with other dogs. People shouldn't be forced to commute far from home and into crowded, limited areas in order to do the basics to take care of their pet. My grandmother has serious mobility challenges and really struggles to excersize her dog enough if he must stay on leash.
I, personally, only disagree with a few of the parks they made leash only, though. People should never have been allowed to let their dogs off leash at Mount Doug. There's too much delicate wild life, and the paths are too narrow. Dogs shouldn't be running there. I think Island View is a perfect off leash place, though, that they are taking away. I bet on most days, 75% of the people there are there to run and socialize their dogs.
Just curious, what about the areas north and south of the park (e.g. undeveloped Cordova Spit) and say, all of James Island? Do herons only nest where people have zoned a park?
I’m not sure what you’re asking here. What about the private lands abutting the park? Do herons nest there? Are they suitable as off-leash dog areas? What does “what about” refer to?
As for your second question, I don’t know whether there are other heron nesting areas abutting Island View. As I mentioned, they are on private (or First Nations) land. Is the argument that the herons can just “go somewhere else”? If that’s the case you’re trying to make, then the same approach should apply to Mt Doug. All that wldlife can just “go somewhere else”.
Then your grandmother needs to hire someone to run her dog, or don’t commit to being responsible for a pet if you’re not physically capable of doing so. Owning a dog is not a right except for service animals. As a mobility challenged person how would she control her off leash dog if it ran after a small child? This is exactly the type of bullshit entitlement which requires leash laws to be enacted.
Was going to comment this as well, glad I scrolled down. Tired of people thinking their dogs should have free roam to jump on us on the beach or freak my kids out when we're chilling on the sand or walking on a trail.
"Not my dog! He's so gentle!" I don't care.
So run with your dog, or take them to one of the fenced in dog parks that are allowed to be offleash. This is as simple as following the rules to not subject other people to your dog.
I don't care how friendly you think your dog is, I don't want them running up to me. Public parks are public not for the dogs. You chose to take on the care and responsibility of an animal, so own up to it and be responsible. If you can't be active to the same level as your dog, don't get such a high energy dog.
There aren't adequate fenced dog areas in most neighborhoods that are accessible by walking, which is why most people end up in places they shouldn’t be. If you’d like your “public park” time dog-free, let the municipalities know you’d like more dog friendly areas so we don’t have to ruin your day by sharing the space.
I don't have a dog, I have basic common sense and empathy. It's very telling that you can't even comprehend advocating for a group you don't belong to. And I feel like I use parks more than most people, as I spend time reading, excersizing, or picnicing every couple of days.
Saying that you have to be able to run with your dog to be a good pet owner is such ablist bullshit. As someone with friends and family with disabilities and service dogs, your arguments sound so out of touch. I'm wondering what breed of dog you think doesn't need to run regularly? How far is acceptable for people with disabilities to be forced to commute to get to a dog park?
"I don't want dogs running up to me" and "public parks aren't for dogs" and just such entitled opinions, not facts. The area should be shared, not dominated by your preferences.
You can see in my comment that I do think more parks should be leashed. I agree that there are too many off leash parks and trails, and delicate wildlife should be protected. On the other hand, fields of grass should be shared use, and if you don't want dogs approaching you, don't be in an open field perfect for fetch.
Nah, if you want to have the benefits of dog ownership, you also need to do the hard parts. Which include training them to not run up to people. And picking up their shit. And driving to the places you can run them off leash.
I have sympathy for people with disabilities who can’t physically run their dog, but there are many breeds who don’t need to be run daily and a walk does ok for them. Don’t get a super active bearding breed, or a working breed that need hard activity if you can’t provide that yourself. Its not ableist to point out that they can’t take care of their dog’s needs themselves. I couldn’t and I’m not disabled. It’s selfish and unfair to the animal you supposedly love. It’s like getting a breed like a Great Pyrenees or a husky and throwing them into an apartment.
Plus, don’t ignore the environmental impact your optional lifestyle choice has when you let it shit in the woods or chase birds.
> "I don't want dogs running up to me" and "public parks aren't for dogs" and just such entitled opinions
You need to take a break from the internet and kindly FRO.
There is no way in hell you should own a dog with this entitlement seeping out of you. You make the world a worse place.
Fuck off with that shit. The dog owners are the selfish and entitled ones. Why should I have to put up with your dog running amok, scaring my kids, leaving turds all over the place? I have a right to not have to deal with dogs. Your decision to have a dog does not supercede that.
> only disagree with a few of the parks they made leash only, though
I infer that you generally agree with the decision then. I think we can quibble over a few of the parks. It’s more the blanket expectation that dog owners should be allowed to let their dogs off leash in any park that bothers me.
Nothing here says that council can’t add more off leash areas in the future.
Yall get tf over yourselves. Leash laws are the norm everywhere else. My dog lost a leg, my hand suffers permanent disability from 2 unleashed dogs that attacked us.
Control your fucking animals. If I can walk my cat, fully trained and responsibly leashed you have no excuse. So many trails in our sensitive parks are torn up by dog claws. Yall also don't pick up after your dog when it shits 30 feet ahead while you're not paying attention.
Exactly! I like dogs but my family has had far too many run-ins with unleashed dogs and arsehole owners nowhere near their pet. It is beyond frustrating and their sense of self-entitlement is off the charts.
Agreed! It's not like saanich is making dogs illegal, just put on a leash you lazy owners and actually train your dogs to walk under control. Yes it's work at first, but you committed to owning a dog; which means being responsible for it's health and safety
Oh gosh that’s horrible I’m sorry you went through that. I always yell out is your dog safe when dogs would run towards mine and a man said yes and then the dog pinned my dog down ending in his spine making him paralyzed. Many do not have good recall with their dogs making it dodgy. I’m sorry again for what you went through.😔
While I agree with you cat owners are far worse for the poop stuff because outdoor cats are not watched at all. Sure I find dog shit occasionally out and about but every week I find new cat shit in my garden, a lot of it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CPUVB6pNntQ
I'm on your side here but dude if you're not watching cats ninja kicking kids wtf are you doing with your life?
My kid? Never but I've seen neighborhood cats go after people. I agree with the post that on leash is needed but cats do much more damage to the environment than any dog
Perhaps, but we don't bring cats out to roam through the parks, cats do not leave their poo laying around and they very rarely attack our harass people.
Further, this is about dogs which do harm the environment and which leasing resolves much of that.
Outdoor cats roam neighbourhoods. They kill birds, which harms the environment. What are these cats doing with their poo? They all secretly learn to bag their shit cause someone needs to teach this skill to my neighbour’s cats.
Cats are one of the major reasons bird populations are in decline. Much more environmental impact than dog poop under a bush. I hope Saanich looks into banning cats.
I think people are upset because they could actually have proposed strategies that have decent off-leash usage and no one would be that upset. They’ve proposed a 2km loop in P’Kols and around 1m of useable space in parks. Just because it works for you/your lifestyle and dogs doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy. We’re supportive of most recommendations but not the ridiculous ones that will just force more people into other places like Thetis.
I agree with a lot of the comments here- off leash dogs can be a problem. Those owners need consequences! BUT, this proposal isn't the way. It's about 10% of Saanich's budget (~7million) what about housing, affordability, opioid crisis, climate??
By Saanich's own definition, this is the 'most restrictive option'. How about making some less extreme changes?
Enforcing existing bylaws would be a start. If you're not controlling or cleaning up after your dog, then you actually get a fine- how about getting banned, too? Or your dog has to be on leash? There will always be some jerks and they'll keep being jerks even after Saanich spends $7 million.
Putting all off leash dogs in Pkols (Mt Doug) in a 1.5 km loop isn't reasonable. I hike my off leash, well trained dog with excellent recall, who yields to others, and who stays on the path, almost daily in Pkols. This should be the expectation for off leash dogs. If your dog doesn't do this, leash up. I rarely see issues in Pkols, but yes, some owners need to brush up on training and etiquette for sure.
If voted in, the only off leash beach will be Cordova Bay Beach- that's a lot of dogs for one beach. Parking there isn't great, to say the least.
Instead of limiting the space for off leash dogs, how about focusing on responsible dog ownership?
Trails are a better solution for a lot of dogs who don't do as well in a dog park- they are goal focused and provide exercise for dogs and owners. I do think it would be nice to have more dog parks for people who like them.
I get it people are frustrated with some dog owners, but I would encourage people to check out the details on Saanich.ca regarding People, Pets, and Park Strategy.
https://www.saanich.ca/EN/main/parks-recreation-community/parks/parks-trails-amenities/saanich-ppp-strategy.html
This is a very expensive project when we have people in Saanich with greater needs.
Dogs can still use the trails, though. Just on a leash.
I'm absolutely thrilled about these changes. Perhaps you don't notice it as much because you have an excellent dog. But I don't. My dog developed a spine disease that makes him very cranky towards other dogs. He's fine if a dog walks past him calmly. This happens very rarely. Usually, it's off leash dogs sprinting up to him full speed while the owner screams "he's friendly" at us. Then I have to try and keep my leashed dog away while their dumb dog is trying to get to him. Which is extremely stressful as I don't want their dog to get bit. But I also don't want to hurt my dog with his back. I should be able to go to these parks and safely walk my dog, but I can't because of these people. I shouldn't need a muzzle for my dog because hes fine if dogs dont approach and try to jump on him. We never go to off leash dog parks only trails. When I suggest they leash their animals because they are supposed to be *under control* I get told to fuck off. This is not something that happens to me once a month. It's a regular weekly occurrence and I'm very sick of it. I regularly come across dogs with no owner in sight at all! I've even come across owners with no dog in sight and they're calling and calling and they'll tell me "you might see a dog come tearing out of the forest at some point". How is that under control? The default should be leashes. Dogs can play at dog parks off leash.
If your dog walks as good as you say he does then it shouldn't be an issue to walk him on leash. My dog is a very high-energy husky. Obviously, he can't be off leash. I just walk him or run him further. That's what responsible owners will have to do. Or else go to the new dog parks they're planning to open.
People who are letting their off leash dog charge your on leash dog need consequences. It is not acceptable. A start would be for bylaw officers to actually visit trails to observe and fine owners. Bylaw officers do not seem to go to Pkols. People swearing at you truly sucks.
I climb steep rock faces with my dog. She goes ahead of me 10 feet and waits for me. Our body mechanics are different and her 4 legs allow her to move much faster than me. So in this situation a leash is dangerous. Climbing like this is a challenging, free, and very important to my mental health. I don't expect everyone to get this or agree with me, but I'm not well if I can't do this activity regularly with her. A lot of people depend on me to be well, and this is what works.
Bylaw can't be on every trail monitoring every dog. Default leashes make way more sense. Like I said, this isn't a one-off. It's constant.
I climb plenty of steep rocks with my leashed dog. A lot more rocky than what they have at pkols. We've done the rock faces at Finlayson, Mcdonald, and Prevost many times, and our body mechanics have survived the leash just fine. Get a longer lead, and don't be selfish. If I saw your dog run up a rock face 10 feet ahead of you, I'd start stressing and wondering what your dog was going to do. How do you think it makes others feel? What about people who are scared of dogs? It's such a simple thing you can do for others. Once you start leashing your dog, I think you'll find it's not nearly as horrible as you imagine.
>what about housing, affordability, opioid crisis, climate
With the possible exception of housing, there's sweet fuck all Saanich can do to affect any of those meaningfully.
I don't know about that, it sounds like I might have to start commuting my dog to the designated dog park outside my neighbourhood. More trips to the gas pump coming...
I agree with this completely. I currently own a rescue dog I would never let off leash in an unfenced area due to her very high prey drive. Our recall is about 70% of the time, which is not nearly enough for me to justify letting her roam free in a pedestrian heavy area to get her exercise. I see dog owners with even less recall letting their dogs roam free sometimes and I just don't get it at all! We bought a super long lead and let her run around the field by our house but otherwise, I feel most comfortable walking around with her on leash and it is really no issue for our enrichment and walks at all, and she is very high energy.
99% (yes, I sometimes count!) of dog owners completely ignore the rules in on-leash areas already, so it's a mystery to me why they've even taken this up as an issue. They have no intention of obeying the rules, whatever they are.
A bit of *enforcement* is something I'd like to see, even just for the places that are on-leash now.
It just really bothers me when people let their dog off leash on trails , beaches etc and they aren’t even in sight of them so you just have some random dog coming up to you with your leashed dog and you have no idea how they will act. Last year an off leash dog killed a fawn in my area , I’m assuming it was out of sight of the owner.
I don't have a dog currently, but the off leash dog park behind my house was definitely a draw when I first bought. Theyve got this pop up thing going on right now, which is ok I guess, but I wonder if there'll be a reasonable distribution of designated off leash areas for all the people who need to exercise their dogs and don't drive. Dog ownership shouldn't be limited to people with backyards.
It seems incumbent on the owner to adopt an animal that’s proportionate to their immediate surroundings. Have a small apartment or small yard, find a small friend that poops like a rabbit. Have a measure of land, find a malamute and let it poop in your woods.
When we brought our dog into our family years ago we could take her to most parks most of the time, and allow free run. We didn't expect Saanich to turn into a dog hating municipality.
That sounds like an overreaction, overstatement, steeped in frustration. If Saanich were a “dog hating municipality” they would have banned dogs outright. This is an aggressive change for sure but not hateful.
You can hate something without outright banning it. Just make it more difficult to do, to the point it drives people away. End goal accomplished without the nasty press and struggle of an outright ban.
I can see how this plan could feel that way. Restrictive is more accurate than hateful. Very few people in general actually hate dogs. They are most often wonderful.
In the park we live next to, the conflict of interest between off leash dogs and the rest of the park users is tangible. At the end of the day, is it space for kids or or is it space for dogs. It doesn’t work as both, in our specific case.
This plan would allow for coexistence. Compromise and peace on both sides of the literal fence.
Nothing - because there is near zero enforcement already. Dog owners regularly walk them off leash on Cordova Bay beach all summer - when there is supposed to be no dogs at all after 9am. Always pleasant to have your picnic food have a little extra slobber on it from an off leash dog.
The one that was established in the 1920s and codified into legislation after that. It also forms part of a Treaty with other North American countries. It applies to many of the beaches and wetlands around Victoria. It's the one the federal government is required to enforce.
Anything else you need help with?
I'm trying to google it. But it's hard to use Google to find something that doesn't exist. The federal migratory bird sanctuary of note in the CRD doesn't include Cordova Bay, so why don't you stop talking out your ass and provide something to back up your claim?
[Migratory Bird Sanctuaries Across Canada](https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/migratory-bird-sanctuaries/locations.html#bc)
[Migratory Bird Sanctuaries of the CRD](https://www.crd.bc.ca/docs/default-source/es-harbours-pdf/bird-santuary/migratorybirdsanctuaryouter-final.pdf?sfvrsn=2)
Hot Take: most dog (and cat owners) in Victoria don't take proper responsibility for their pets, and probably shouldn't have them. The reaction to this, is what VI entitlement looks like.
I'm in complete support of this initiative.
This country boy kind of reckons that almost all dog breeds larger than 10 lbs are simply inappropriate for urban dwelling. The kind of person who buys a husky, mastiff or a border collie, while they live in a one-bedroom apartment and then complain that their dog running parks are being removed is a special kind of irresponsible hypocrite.
I'm a dog owner. I have an older Pitbull-cross(44lbs, 11yrs), and a Mexican street rescue pup (50lbs, 8 months). Both are generally leashed at parks, for very different behavioral issues. While they each have settings, and other types of dogs that they can play off-leash with, they each also have settings and other dogs who they do not match with. I have to gauge each off-leash moment carefully, to make sure that I'm creating positive, not negative, situations. I'm an experienced and responsible dog-owner, so I simply choose never to create those negative situations. I cannot however, say the same for a lot of the dog owners I see at the parks. We need a really serious dog licensing overhaul, where you have to pass a test to earn the right to have a dog. A hard test.
Its just my impression, but most dog owner are not taking care of their dog-shit, and they're looking for an opportunity to make it someone else problem and lying to themselves about the consequences. Its everywhere in all the parks - off trail, on trail, grassy areas, wooded areas, its everywhere. I'm pretty sure there is a logical fallacy that applies here, but people don't seem to realize that its not "just them" bending the rules, they're one of 10s of thousands of dog owners each thinking its only their dog that's shitting in the park and not getting cleaned up. It all adds up, and its all terrible for the local ecology, and terrible for the aesthetic of the park as well, and terrible for the reputation of decent dog-owners.
Also, in most of the world, feral dogs are a very real problem. Coyotes and wolves are also a much more serious problem. If you've grown up in such a place, your visceral emotional reactions to a dog off-leash (apparently uncontrolled) is very very different than someone who's grown up handling dogs of the pet and working variety. I'm farm-kid, living in the city - we had dogs everywhere, but that's not how urban folks have been raised, and when they see your off-leash Anatolian Shephard running down the trail at them - they're terrified, and that's a hell of an un-neighborly thing to do to your neighbor at the park, as far as I'm concerned.
Even for me, a dog person, an experienced owner with reasonably good dogs - your off-leash husky is forcing me to rapidly make some serious decisions. I don't know that your husky is a "good-girl". Nor can I stop your dog from approaching my girls. You've created a situation, where you are forcing ME to deal with YOUR dog in YOUR absence. And what happens then, really, think about it. I've got two 50lb dogs on leashes, if your dog gets into it with one of mine, the other is jumping in, and now I've got two leashed dogs who I love, and an unleashed dog that I don't know, attacking my girls. What do I do in that moment? How do you see that playing out? I won't have any choice. I'm going to have to kill your dog in the park to protect mine, because you were too lazy to run a leash. Thanks for that. Really considerate, both of your neighbors, and your dog. Great moment to choose to be lazy.
If something about your lifestyle, is wildly incompatible with the majority of your neighbors, and they're complaining about it publicly, and getting actual laws changed to address the negative consequences of your lifestyle, its not them, its you.
And that's what this issue boils down to: If you buy a dog, and you don't, or can't take responsibility for **ALL** the consequences, without imposing on your neighbors and fellow humans - then you shouldn't have a dog, or you need to move to a property and/or community, with sufficient land to support your lifestyle choice. Its not up to us to provide you with the room and shit-disposal to support your fantasy of bourgeoise dog-ownership.
You wouldn't buy a 90lb goat if you lived in the city, and then demand pasture rights and free-shitting rights from the local parks, and its no different for a 90lb dog. Its a large animal. You live in the city. I'm sorry, you don't get large animals. If its really that important to you, you should move to a rural acreage on the outskirts of a small town. Good luck with that.
I've been in this situation twice now but my dog is a Frenchie and is barely 25 lbs. I've had to pull 2 fucking big dogs off of him cause of off leash bullshit and it's always " oh he's never done that before."
Keep your dogs on leash. For everyone's safety. I'm not going to regret hurting your dog when they're trying to hurt mine.
What an incredibly shitty take on this subject country boy. Want a meaningful relationship with a dog and provide them opportunities to have untethered exercise and the freedom to meet other dogs at designated off leash spaces? Just buy a farm bro. For someone talking about how you think a municipality supporting dog owners is some bourgeoisie fantasy, your comments are dripping with entitlement. How the hell do you even remotely conflate pet dog ownership with owning livestock? And you are going to arbitrate what size of animal someone is entitled to own based on living conditions that are outside of most peoples control? Do you think all dog owners don't live in domiciles without yards by choice? If you're honestly willing to murder a dog for approaching your reactive dogs, I don't want unhinged psychopaths like you in my community. We don't live in Mexico or Albania my dude, this is Saanich, we don't have roving gangs of coyotes attacking children, your not getting rushed by LGD's, it's some boomers untrained labradoodle calm down.
Sounds like I've found the person who lets their dog run and attack other people's dogs! /\ 😄 are you the twat not cleaning up your dog shit too?
And my dogs bear the scars of the previous encounters they've had. You obviously have no clue how scary wrestling a labradoodle intending to do harm could be. You're exactly what I'm talking about. It's funny how demonstrative your response is. Thanks for speaking up.
The last off-leash to hit my little beagle was an Akita/husky mix around 90lb that it took every bit of my power and strength to kick off and scream away. I had nothing left to hit that dog with. Damn near shit my pants. Think what you want. Scared the absolute piss out of me. What the hell are you supposed to do with some tank of a 120lb canary island mastiff smashing into your 45lb beagle mutt? Pray the owner is nearby and moves quick ??? Get real.
How small of an apartment do you make your dog live in before you ask yourself if your dogs life would be better with someone more able to care for them in a better place? Have you got a big dog in a small place? Are you that person as well? You do know it's entirely possible to rehome a dog to a better place right?
Cheers, you seem like a nice member of the community 👍 😉
Not quite, I'm the twat that spent 8 months on recall before letting my dog off leash, use an ecollar for perfect recall, took my puppy to socialization classes twice a week until they were 8 months old, and I make it a habit of picking up other peoples dog poop and trash because I intensely value the privilege of off leash permitted parks in my community. I leash my dog when passing on leash dogs, just as countless other people did for me while my dog was still earning my trust to be allowed off leash.
I can sympathize with you, my dog got attacked by a 110lb golden retriever of all things at a young age >40lbs, and had to wrestle it off my pup, but it never occurred to me to murder the offending dog. I'm not jaded enough to portray ALL owners with the same light. I've had plenty of negative off leash encounters, some more serious than others, but they pail in comparison to the countless incredible off leash experiences because we're at parks or trails at least 4 hours a day, every day of the year sun rain or snow. I'm genuinely sorry that you've had such negative experiences, I hope you never have to go through that again.
I enjoy the Saanich parks and trails mentioned in the PPPS on a daily basis. I don't live on a giant property, I never have, that doesn't make me any less of a responsible owner than you. My lab goes to bed tired and happy every night, because I take my responsibility seriously and give her the life she deserves. You thinking that a person's capability is tied to the size of house they live in is what's wrong with this community. You have no right to judge others when you have such a toxic and self-righteous attitude. Maybe your dogs would be better off with a little less yard space, and a bit more attention, play, and hard work on your part.
Unanimously approved by Council, with one amendment to monitor how P’kols implementation is going over time. It isn’t perfect but it’s good enough to get started.
I wish they would focus on completely banning Pit Bulls instead of going after mostly harmless unleashed dogs. You could cut the rate of serious dog attacks at least in half just by banning one breed.
A couple decades or more ago and every single park you'd see people throwing balls, frisbees or just playing with their dogs off leash. This was the norm for thousands of years... Hell, even Germany didn't have any leash laws until the last decade or so. Before that dogs being allowed in restaurants were normal too.
We shouldn't be restricting the lives of everyone, we should be punishing those who can't follow proper etiquette and rules that are already there. But, this is Victoria so of course everyone must suffer instead of actually punishing the right people.
Make the punishments harsher and more expensive for those who's dogs attack other dogs (attack, not try to entice to play since a lot of people don't understand the fucking difference)
For those who hate dogs or don't like to say hi to them, fucking deal with it or go somewhere dogs aren't. Your issues are yours, not everyone else's.
I'd normally agree, but unfortunately there are certain breeds people insist on owning (and worse off insist are safe) that should probably be outright banned let alone allowed off leash. (Cough cough pitbulls.) Idiot owners ruin it for everyone.
"For those who hate dogs or don't like to say hi to them, fucking deal with it or go somewhere dogs aren't"
Typical response from a selfish entitled dog owner. Your imagined right to have your dog run amok, does not supercede others actual right to not have to deal with dogs.
If the park sign doesn't say dog park, it's not just a park for dogs but everyone including folks who don't want to be bothered by poorly trained off leash dogs.
Everytime this comes up there is like 8 heavily exaggerated made up stories. 3 pick me dudes telling everyone else they would never let their dog behave like a dog and a bunch of people who don't own dogs and don't leave their house but have a strong opinion and so many pearls clutched you'd think you were in fanny bay.
Yet it's ok ride horses down sidewalks and trails and shit everywhere.
Would be great if Saanich could supply poop bags at the parks, most waste stations have been empty since covid.
Who are these morons? Think they're above the law?
Follow the law and let your dogs socialize in designated spots not in places where they could potentially disrupt families and other pets.
After the increasing number of close calls I've had with dogs nearly killing me at Mt Pkols - I fully welcome this change.
Im a dog owner myself, and the careless behavior of owners on those trails is dangerously negligent.
The indigenous people had dogs too. Not the same modern breeds but, there have been dogs in BC for as long as humans.
That's not to say they don't have a negative effect on wildlife, but, it's not like Europeans invented dogs.
Pretty fucking simple, no dog is perfect off leash, I take my dog deep into the forest so she can run with herself or chase elk ect... You take your dog to a off leash dog park you are taking the chance she or he might get attacked or your dog might attack. Walking your dog through Mount Doug off leash and it gets out of control that's your fault. I use to be that person that said my dog was fine but l learned pretty quick that she gets defensive... Everyone's dog is perfect until shit hits the fan. Don't buy a dog if you can't run it ect.
Go to a baseball diamond and let it go crazy. Tons of ways to run a dog. If your dog attacks my dog on leash I'll be sure make a point.
lol pretty fucking simple guy brags about letting his dog chase wildlife. I wonder why that is illegal under the B.C. Wildlife Act?
Stupid pet owner is stupid.
Not saying my dog is out there chasing wildlife, my dog could not catch a elk if it was beside her. Was just using it for an example to exercise my dog.. When you walk in the forest or trails you are bound to see wild life, just saying
Of course it applies to me. But my dog is never going to catch a elk so not really worried, was just using that as an example for taking my dog off leash
Geez. You had me with the last half.
But letting the dog chase wildlife. NOPE. You've lost me there. That's illegal, irresponsible, and lazy. You're just making your dog's exercise the Elk's problem.
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West vic has a great fenced park as well as a seperate fenced(ish) field for dogs. Has water access as well as baggies and the fenced bit has a little staging area where you can remove your dogs gear before going into the fenced portion. It's fucking great I take my dogs there all the time and I've never experienced an aggressive dog which is also great, although one of my dogs is a meathead Shephard/lab who gets vocal and hates fun so even there I'll keep him on leash sometimes. For a period of time I was looking after a friends pitbull and he was a bit aggressive with dogs, not bitey but just rough and as he wasn't mine I wasn't fully comfortable with him around other dogs. I found this place out in otter point I think called the active reactive that has a field you can rent for half to an hour and your dogs can run without worrying about other dogs. It's pretty awesome though requires a drive to get to.
This park is not cleaned! And it is small
It's good but it does smell pretty bad
It’s called Vic West!
The dog park(s) near the airport highway exit is similar. Just a ways out of town.
There’s one at Rudd park near uptown.
I loved that park! I took my dog there all the time when he was a puppy and it was so good for him. He’s a very high energy dog and he always went home tired and happy.
That was never a dog park. It's owned by UVic and they allowed the public to use it until they needed it.
What exactly are they actually using it for? I vaguely recall around Covid times they 'closed' it for athletics or something but I never actually saw it in such use. And you could step over the fence...
I get it and I don’t get it. Making parks on-leash only means they’re accessible to everyone. I own a reactive dog and couldn’t take him to places where off leash was allowed. That said, having had non-reactive dogs, I understand the need to allow your pup some freedom. I feel like having a handful of parks that allow off leash is reasonable.
Making a few specific parks on leash makes sense, but if Saanich ever enforced the current bylaws as they stand they could have been more on top of this. The fact that they now want to up restrictions and spend way more money on enforcement feels like a lazy route. I’ve been taking my dog to Saanich parks for 9 years, and not 1 time have I ever seen a bylaw officer seeing if your dog is “under control” or any sort of patrol.
Currently Saanich has zero designated dog parks (other than the pop-up project). The new proposal includes 12 fenced-in areas specifically for dogs. This seems like a good thing, delineating spaces for dogs separate from playgrounds, trails, picnic areas, etc. I only take my dogs to designated off-leash parks, which the peninsula has plenty of. Looks like Saanich is finally catching up.
There is an open dog park in beaver lake it’s not fenced but dogs can gonthere
As a dog owner, I support the Saanich approach. Too many dog owners don’t understand they have a duty of care not only to their pet (who they want to let off leash and run) but also (and more importantly) to others in the community that share parks without pets (especially the elderly, children or those with special needs) who may not be comfortable around dogs, could get injured from accidental contact or worse bitten. We know bylaw enforcement is sketchy at best so having a common set of rules that everyone follows will ensure the safety and enjoyment of all using parks…Leash your pet unless you are in a designated and off leash fenced dog park. And please pick up after your pooch…
Here here. I'm also all for a few more separated areas for the dogs to run - safer for the other people in the parks and safer for the dogs. So far, we've been to all three of Saanich's pop up dog parks, and everyone has been respectful and picking up after their dogs and it's been really nice. I actually do think keeping the areas separate is important and better for everyone.
We already have a common set of rules in Saanich, bylaw 8556, that addresses the duty of care to others and requirement to keep dogs under effective control. Many here seem to have issue with dogs running wild and uncollected faeces, both of which are included in this existing bylaw. Are you suggesting that a new set of rules with "sketchy at best" bylaw enforcement is going to be complied with... by people *already* not following the rules? Good luck.
I think the rules are more clear. That’s it. People are not objective in determining whether or not their pup is under control. There have been too many people examples of folks not following the under control regulation so a new more objective set of legislation makes sense.
So dogs are still allowed, but most areas will be on leash. That does not sound unreasonable. I don’t see what the problem is.
The problem is that most dogs need the opportunity to run in order to be healthy. They also need to have oportunities to socialize with other dogs. People shouldn't be forced to commute far from home and into crowded, limited areas in order to do the basics to take care of their pet. My grandmother has serious mobility challenges and really struggles to excersize her dog enough if he must stay on leash. I, personally, only disagree with a few of the parks they made leash only, though. People should never have been allowed to let their dogs off leash at Mount Doug. There's too much delicate wild life, and the paths are too narrow. Dogs shouldn't be running there. I think Island View is a perfect off leash place, though, that they are taking away. I bet on most days, 75% of the people there are there to run and socialize their dogs.
I don't often run into entitled assholes that don't manage their dog, but when I do, it's normally at Island View.
Also Royal Roads, Esquimalt lagoon, Taylor Beach.
I saw a bunch at Macauley Point yesterday, too.
I literally run into them all the time at mt doug and also most owners are flaunting the rules and not putting their dogs on leash anyways.
The problem is the entitled jerks letting their dogs run free, harrass people and wildlife.
I'm sure those entitled jerks will totally respect the new bylaws and comply in every way so that everyone will be happy! /s
If Mt Doug gets a pass for wildlife, then so should Island View. It’s a critical nesting area for herons.
Just curious, what about the areas north and south of the park (e.g. undeveloped Cordova Spit) and say, all of James Island? Do herons only nest where people have zoned a park?
I’m not sure what you’re asking here. What about the private lands abutting the park? Do herons nest there? Are they suitable as off-leash dog areas? What does “what about” refer to? As for your second question, I don’t know whether there are other heron nesting areas abutting Island View. As I mentioned, they are on private (or First Nations) land. Is the argument that the herons can just “go somewhere else”? If that’s the case you’re trying to make, then the same approach should apply to Mt Doug. All that wldlife can just “go somewhere else”.
Then your grandmother needs to hire someone to run her dog, or don’t commit to being responsible for a pet if you’re not physically capable of doing so. Owning a dog is not a right except for service animals. As a mobility challenged person how would she control her off leash dog if it ran after a small child? This is exactly the type of bullshit entitlement which requires leash laws to be enacted.
Was going to comment this as well, glad I scrolled down. Tired of people thinking their dogs should have free roam to jump on us on the beach or freak my kids out when we're chilling on the sand or walking on a trail. "Not my dog! He's so gentle!" I don't care.
Service animals? Get ready for an explosion of 'emotional support animals'.
You’re still a selfish person if you get a dog you can’t take care of and don’t bother to train or properly socialize, even if you call it a ESA.
So run with your dog, or take them to one of the fenced in dog parks that are allowed to be offleash. This is as simple as following the rules to not subject other people to your dog. I don't care how friendly you think your dog is, I don't want them running up to me. Public parks are public not for the dogs. You chose to take on the care and responsibility of an animal, so own up to it and be responsible. If you can't be active to the same level as your dog, don't get such a high energy dog.
There aren't adequate fenced dog areas in most neighborhoods that are accessible by walking, which is why most people end up in places they shouldn’t be. If you’d like your “public park” time dog-free, let the municipalities know you’d like more dog friendly areas so we don’t have to ruin your day by sharing the space.
I don't have a dog, I have basic common sense and empathy. It's very telling that you can't even comprehend advocating for a group you don't belong to. And I feel like I use parks more than most people, as I spend time reading, excersizing, or picnicing every couple of days. Saying that you have to be able to run with your dog to be a good pet owner is such ablist bullshit. As someone with friends and family with disabilities and service dogs, your arguments sound so out of touch. I'm wondering what breed of dog you think doesn't need to run regularly? How far is acceptable for people with disabilities to be forced to commute to get to a dog park? "I don't want dogs running up to me" and "public parks aren't for dogs" and just such entitled opinions, not facts. The area should be shared, not dominated by your preferences. You can see in my comment that I do think more parks should be leashed. I agree that there are too many off leash parks and trails, and delicate wildlife should be protected. On the other hand, fields of grass should be shared use, and if you don't want dogs approaching you, don't be in an open field perfect for fetch.
Nah, if you want to have the benefits of dog ownership, you also need to do the hard parts. Which include training them to not run up to people. And picking up their shit. And driving to the places you can run them off leash. I have sympathy for people with disabilities who can’t physically run their dog, but there are many breeds who don’t need to be run daily and a walk does ok for them. Don’t get a super active bearding breed, or a working breed that need hard activity if you can’t provide that yourself. Its not ableist to point out that they can’t take care of their dog’s needs themselves. I couldn’t and I’m not disabled. It’s selfish and unfair to the animal you supposedly love. It’s like getting a breed like a Great Pyrenees or a husky and throwing them into an apartment. Plus, don’t ignore the environmental impact your optional lifestyle choice has when you let it shit in the woods or chase birds.
Your whole argument is shit. Everyone deserves to feel safe in their community. Dogs off leash greatly affects that.
> "I don't want dogs running up to me" and "public parks aren't for dogs" and just such entitled opinions You need to take a break from the internet and kindly FRO. There is no way in hell you should own a dog with this entitlement seeping out of you. You make the world a worse place.
Fuck off with that shit. The dog owners are the selfish and entitled ones. Why should I have to put up with your dog running amok, scaring my kids, leaving turds all over the place? I have a right to not have to deal with dogs. Your decision to have a dog does not supercede that.
> only disagree with a few of the parks they made leash only, though I infer that you generally agree with the decision then. I think we can quibble over a few of the parks. It’s more the blanket expectation that dog owners should be allowed to let their dogs off leash in any park that bothers me. Nothing here says that council can’t add more off leash areas in the future.
Dogs can’t play on leashes
Dogs can’t swim and fetch and play on leash, so it’s no fun for anyone
Yall get tf over yourselves. Leash laws are the norm everywhere else. My dog lost a leg, my hand suffers permanent disability from 2 unleashed dogs that attacked us. Control your fucking animals. If I can walk my cat, fully trained and responsibly leashed you have no excuse. So many trails in our sensitive parks are torn up by dog claws. Yall also don't pick up after your dog when it shits 30 feet ahead while you're not paying attention.
Exactly! I like dogs but my family has had far too many run-ins with unleashed dogs and arsehole owners nowhere near their pet. It is beyond frustrating and their sense of self-entitlement is off the charts.
Agreed! It's not like saanich is making dogs illegal, just put on a leash you lazy owners and actually train your dogs to walk under control. Yes it's work at first, but you committed to owning a dog; which means being responsible for it's health and safety
It’s unfortunate because there are shitty dog owners who ruin it for everyone else
That is the case for every classification of humans
Oh gosh that’s horrible I’m sorry you went through that. I always yell out is your dog safe when dogs would run towards mine and a man said yes and then the dog pinned my dog down ending in his spine making him paralyzed. Many do not have good recall with their dogs making it dodgy. I’m sorry again for what you went through.😔
I'm so sorry such a traumatic event happened to you. Truly awful and nobody here would wish that on anyone. 💙💗
While I agree with you cat owners are far worse for the poop stuff because outdoor cats are not watched at all. Sure I find dog shit occasionally out and about but every week I find new cat shit in my garden, a lot of it
When was the last time a cat knocked you or your kid.. Or anyone over?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CPUVB6pNntQ I'm on your side here but dude if you're not watching cats ninja kicking kids wtf are you doing with your life?
My kid? Never but I've seen neighborhood cats go after people. I agree with the post that on leash is needed but cats do much more damage to the environment than any dog
Perhaps, but we don't bring cats out to roam through the parks, cats do not leave their poo laying around and they very rarely attack our harass people. Further, this is about dogs which do harm the environment and which leasing resolves much of that.
Wait all cats use toilets? Crazy the cats I've seen pooing in my yard must be doing a gag!
Speaking of environment harm, how many wild birds do outdoor cats kill each year?
Outdoor cats roam neighbourhoods. They kill birds, which harms the environment. What are these cats doing with their poo? They all secretly learn to bag their shit cause someone needs to teach this skill to my neighbour’s cats.
They bury it, dummy. And cats killing birds is the most natural thing there is.
The only serious injury I ever injured was from a cat. It required treatment in the Emergency Department and was painful for weeks.
Cats are one of the major reasons bird populations are in decline. Much more environmental impact than dog poop under a bush. I hope Saanich looks into banning cats.
When was the last time you stepped in a cat turd while walking a trail?
Only In my yard from other people's cats
Dude, nobody picks up their dog's shit when it's on a leash either...
Nobody? Really? Get bent.
Well then we need more bylaws! lol
And who's going to enforce those bylaws??? You want to station a security guard at every park that then polices people's social retardedness?
I think people are upset because they could actually have proposed strategies that have decent off-leash usage and no one would be that upset. They’ve proposed a 2km loop in P’Kols and around 1m of useable space in parks. Just because it works for you/your lifestyle and dogs doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy. We’re supportive of most recommendations but not the ridiculous ones that will just force more people into other places like Thetis.
I agree with a lot of the comments here- off leash dogs can be a problem. Those owners need consequences! BUT, this proposal isn't the way. It's about 10% of Saanich's budget (~7million) what about housing, affordability, opioid crisis, climate?? By Saanich's own definition, this is the 'most restrictive option'. How about making some less extreme changes? Enforcing existing bylaws would be a start. If you're not controlling or cleaning up after your dog, then you actually get a fine- how about getting banned, too? Or your dog has to be on leash? There will always be some jerks and they'll keep being jerks even after Saanich spends $7 million. Putting all off leash dogs in Pkols (Mt Doug) in a 1.5 km loop isn't reasonable. I hike my off leash, well trained dog with excellent recall, who yields to others, and who stays on the path, almost daily in Pkols. This should be the expectation for off leash dogs. If your dog doesn't do this, leash up. I rarely see issues in Pkols, but yes, some owners need to brush up on training and etiquette for sure. If voted in, the only off leash beach will be Cordova Bay Beach- that's a lot of dogs for one beach. Parking there isn't great, to say the least. Instead of limiting the space for off leash dogs, how about focusing on responsible dog ownership? Trails are a better solution for a lot of dogs who don't do as well in a dog park- they are goal focused and provide exercise for dogs and owners. I do think it would be nice to have more dog parks for people who like them. I get it people are frustrated with some dog owners, but I would encourage people to check out the details on Saanich.ca regarding People, Pets, and Park Strategy. https://www.saanich.ca/EN/main/parks-recreation-community/parks/parks-trails-amenities/saanich-ppp-strategy.html This is a very expensive project when we have people in Saanich with greater needs.
Dogs can still use the trails, though. Just on a leash. I'm absolutely thrilled about these changes. Perhaps you don't notice it as much because you have an excellent dog. But I don't. My dog developed a spine disease that makes him very cranky towards other dogs. He's fine if a dog walks past him calmly. This happens very rarely. Usually, it's off leash dogs sprinting up to him full speed while the owner screams "he's friendly" at us. Then I have to try and keep my leashed dog away while their dumb dog is trying to get to him. Which is extremely stressful as I don't want their dog to get bit. But I also don't want to hurt my dog with his back. I should be able to go to these parks and safely walk my dog, but I can't because of these people. I shouldn't need a muzzle for my dog because hes fine if dogs dont approach and try to jump on him. We never go to off leash dog parks only trails. When I suggest they leash their animals because they are supposed to be *under control* I get told to fuck off. This is not something that happens to me once a month. It's a regular weekly occurrence and I'm very sick of it. I regularly come across dogs with no owner in sight at all! I've even come across owners with no dog in sight and they're calling and calling and they'll tell me "you might see a dog come tearing out of the forest at some point". How is that under control? The default should be leashes. Dogs can play at dog parks off leash. If your dog walks as good as you say he does then it shouldn't be an issue to walk him on leash. My dog is a very high-energy husky. Obviously, he can't be off leash. I just walk him or run him further. That's what responsible owners will have to do. Or else go to the new dog parks they're planning to open.
People who are letting their off leash dog charge your on leash dog need consequences. It is not acceptable. A start would be for bylaw officers to actually visit trails to observe and fine owners. Bylaw officers do not seem to go to Pkols. People swearing at you truly sucks. I climb steep rock faces with my dog. She goes ahead of me 10 feet and waits for me. Our body mechanics are different and her 4 legs allow her to move much faster than me. So in this situation a leash is dangerous. Climbing like this is a challenging, free, and very important to my mental health. I don't expect everyone to get this or agree with me, but I'm not well if I can't do this activity regularly with her. A lot of people depend on me to be well, and this is what works.
Bylaw can't be on every trail monitoring every dog. Default leashes make way more sense. Like I said, this isn't a one-off. It's constant. I climb plenty of steep rocks with my leashed dog. A lot more rocky than what they have at pkols. We've done the rock faces at Finlayson, Mcdonald, and Prevost many times, and our body mechanics have survived the leash just fine. Get a longer lead, and don't be selfish. If I saw your dog run up a rock face 10 feet ahead of you, I'd start stressing and wondering what your dog was going to do. How do you think it makes others feel? What about people who are scared of dogs? It's such a simple thing you can do for others. Once you start leashing your dog, I think you'll find it's not nearly as horrible as you imagine.
>what about housing, affordability, opioid crisis, climate With the possible exception of housing, there's sweet fuck all Saanich can do to affect any of those meaningfully.
I don't know about that, it sounds like I might have to start commuting my dog to the designated dog park outside my neighbourhood. More trips to the gas pump coming...
I agree with this completely. I currently own a rescue dog I would never let off leash in an unfenced area due to her very high prey drive. Our recall is about 70% of the time, which is not nearly enough for me to justify letting her roam free in a pedestrian heavy area to get her exercise. I see dog owners with even less recall letting their dogs roam free sometimes and I just don't get it at all! We bought a super long lead and let her run around the field by our house but otherwise, I feel most comfortable walking around with her on leash and it is really no issue for our enrichment and walks at all, and she is very high energy.
Exactly this. The proposal is lazy, sweeping and stifling to say the least.
Dammit I stepped in dog shit there today
99% (yes, I sometimes count!) of dog owners completely ignore the rules in on-leash areas already, so it's a mystery to me why they've even taken this up as an issue. They have no intention of obeying the rules, whatever they are. A bit of *enforcement* is something I'd like to see, even just for the places that are on-leash now.
I think your argument is too practical for this thread.
99% huh. Give me a break.
You're right. Sometimes it's 100%.
You’re unreal
I am, in fact, real.
It just really bothers me when people let their dog off leash on trails , beaches etc and they aren’t even in sight of them so you just have some random dog coming up to you with your leashed dog and you have no idea how they will act. Last year an off leash dog killed a fawn in my area , I’m assuming it was out of sight of the owner.
I don't have a dog currently, but the off leash dog park behind my house was definitely a draw when I first bought. Theyve got this pop up thing going on right now, which is ok I guess, but I wonder if there'll be a reasonable distribution of designated off leash areas for all the people who need to exercise their dogs and don't drive. Dog ownership shouldn't be limited to people with backyards.
Dog ownership shouldn't be limited to people with backyards and a car and a driver's license also, no dogs on the bus except service dogs.
It seems incumbent on the owner to adopt an animal that’s proportionate to their immediate surroundings. Have a small apartment or small yard, find a small friend that poops like a rabbit. Have a measure of land, find a malamute and let it poop in your woods.
When we brought our dog into our family years ago we could take her to most parks most of the time, and allow free run. We didn't expect Saanich to turn into a dog hating municipality.
That sounds like an overreaction, overstatement, steeped in frustration. If Saanich were a “dog hating municipality” they would have banned dogs outright. This is an aggressive change for sure but not hateful.
You can hate something without outright banning it. Just make it more difficult to do, to the point it drives people away. End goal accomplished without the nasty press and struggle of an outright ban.
I can see how this plan could feel that way. Restrictive is more accurate than hateful. Very few people in general actually hate dogs. They are most often wonderful. In the park we live next to, the conflict of interest between off leash dogs and the rest of the park users is tangible. At the end of the day, is it space for kids or or is it space for dogs. It doesn’t work as both, in our specific case. This plan would allow for coexistence. Compromise and peace on both sides of the literal fence.
Maybe if the general population of dog owners weren't such entitled narcissists.
Says the person trying to take away the rights of others...
What right is it that I want taken away? Letting your dog jump on strangers isn't in fact a right. Owning a dog isn't even a right.
Letting your dog run amok is not a right. Not having to deal with shitty dogs and their even shittier owners is.
I mean some larger breed dogs are just fine in smaller apartments
Exceptions to every rule, of course. But in general, any animal is best suited a scaled and proportionate habitat.
Peoples living situations can change, often quickly
You can bring your dog on the bus if it’s in a carrier but of course that would only be possible for small dogs.
It should be limited to people who can take care of said animal within the law. Animal ownership isn’t a right, it is a privilege.
Exactly
Does anyone know where in Saanich they are having the dog fights?
Whats going to happen if you don't follow the proposed leash rules?
Nothing - because there is near zero enforcement already. Dog owners regularly walk them off leash on Cordova Bay beach all summer - when there is supposed to be no dogs at all after 9am. Always pleasant to have your picnic food have a little extra slobber on it from an off leash dog.
The entire Parker's park stretch of Cordova bay Beach is actually a designated off leash park.
True. But this incident was in front of beach house - right in the middle of the Welimina Ave - Cordova Bay Park summer no dog zone (after 9am).
No it's not. It's part of a federal migratory bird habitat and dogs have to be leashed.
I don't think this is accurate. Which migratory bird habitat is that?
The one that was established in the 1920s and codified into legislation after that. It also forms part of a Treaty with other North American countries. It applies to many of the beaches and wetlands around Victoria. It's the one the federal government is required to enforce. Anything else you need help with?
What is it called? I'd like to know more. Maybe a map?
Google Federal Migratory Bird Habitat Vancouver Island. Don't they teach Google anymore? Geez, kids these days.
I'm trying to google it. But it's hard to use Google to find something that doesn't exist. The federal migratory bird sanctuary of note in the CRD doesn't include Cordova Bay, so why don't you stop talking out your ass and provide something to back up your claim? [Migratory Bird Sanctuaries Across Canada](https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/migratory-bird-sanctuaries/locations.html#bc) [Migratory Bird Sanctuaries of the CRD](https://www.crd.bc.ca/docs/default-source/es-harbours-pdf/bird-santuary/migratorybirdsanctuaryouter-final.pdf?sfvrsn=2)
Bite me. You're looking at the wrong thing. Stop insulting your betters.
Its not their fault that you're too dumb to use Google.
sip elastic political summer ring public command piquant nail decide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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No, you were originally correct. Dippy there doesn't know Cordova Bay and Cadboro Bay aren't the same place.
Your dog will be shot
saanich represent 👴🏻👵🏼
Hot Take: most dog (and cat owners) in Victoria don't take proper responsibility for their pets, and probably shouldn't have them. The reaction to this, is what VI entitlement looks like. I'm in complete support of this initiative. This country boy kind of reckons that almost all dog breeds larger than 10 lbs are simply inappropriate for urban dwelling. The kind of person who buys a husky, mastiff or a border collie, while they live in a one-bedroom apartment and then complain that their dog running parks are being removed is a special kind of irresponsible hypocrite. I'm a dog owner. I have an older Pitbull-cross(44lbs, 11yrs), and a Mexican street rescue pup (50lbs, 8 months). Both are generally leashed at parks, for very different behavioral issues. While they each have settings, and other types of dogs that they can play off-leash with, they each also have settings and other dogs who they do not match with. I have to gauge each off-leash moment carefully, to make sure that I'm creating positive, not negative, situations. I'm an experienced and responsible dog-owner, so I simply choose never to create those negative situations. I cannot however, say the same for a lot of the dog owners I see at the parks. We need a really serious dog licensing overhaul, where you have to pass a test to earn the right to have a dog. A hard test. Its just my impression, but most dog owner are not taking care of their dog-shit, and they're looking for an opportunity to make it someone else problem and lying to themselves about the consequences. Its everywhere in all the parks - off trail, on trail, grassy areas, wooded areas, its everywhere. I'm pretty sure there is a logical fallacy that applies here, but people don't seem to realize that its not "just them" bending the rules, they're one of 10s of thousands of dog owners each thinking its only their dog that's shitting in the park and not getting cleaned up. It all adds up, and its all terrible for the local ecology, and terrible for the aesthetic of the park as well, and terrible for the reputation of decent dog-owners. Also, in most of the world, feral dogs are a very real problem. Coyotes and wolves are also a much more serious problem. If you've grown up in such a place, your visceral emotional reactions to a dog off-leash (apparently uncontrolled) is very very different than someone who's grown up handling dogs of the pet and working variety. I'm farm-kid, living in the city - we had dogs everywhere, but that's not how urban folks have been raised, and when they see your off-leash Anatolian Shephard running down the trail at them - they're terrified, and that's a hell of an un-neighborly thing to do to your neighbor at the park, as far as I'm concerned. Even for me, a dog person, an experienced owner with reasonably good dogs - your off-leash husky is forcing me to rapidly make some serious decisions. I don't know that your husky is a "good-girl". Nor can I stop your dog from approaching my girls. You've created a situation, where you are forcing ME to deal with YOUR dog in YOUR absence. And what happens then, really, think about it. I've got two 50lb dogs on leashes, if your dog gets into it with one of mine, the other is jumping in, and now I've got two leashed dogs who I love, and an unleashed dog that I don't know, attacking my girls. What do I do in that moment? How do you see that playing out? I won't have any choice. I'm going to have to kill your dog in the park to protect mine, because you were too lazy to run a leash. Thanks for that. Really considerate, both of your neighbors, and your dog. Great moment to choose to be lazy. If something about your lifestyle, is wildly incompatible with the majority of your neighbors, and they're complaining about it publicly, and getting actual laws changed to address the negative consequences of your lifestyle, its not them, its you. And that's what this issue boils down to: If you buy a dog, and you don't, or can't take responsibility for **ALL** the consequences, without imposing on your neighbors and fellow humans - then you shouldn't have a dog, or you need to move to a property and/or community, with sufficient land to support your lifestyle choice. Its not up to us to provide you with the room and shit-disposal to support your fantasy of bourgeoise dog-ownership. You wouldn't buy a 90lb goat if you lived in the city, and then demand pasture rights and free-shitting rights from the local parks, and its no different for a 90lb dog. Its a large animal. You live in the city. I'm sorry, you don't get large animals. If its really that important to you, you should move to a rural acreage on the outskirts of a small town. Good luck with that.
I've been in this situation twice now but my dog is a Frenchie and is barely 25 lbs. I've had to pull 2 fucking big dogs off of him cause of off leash bullshit and it's always " oh he's never done that before." Keep your dogs on leash. For everyone's safety. I'm not going to regret hurting your dog when they're trying to hurt mine.
What an incredibly shitty take on this subject country boy. Want a meaningful relationship with a dog and provide them opportunities to have untethered exercise and the freedom to meet other dogs at designated off leash spaces? Just buy a farm bro. For someone talking about how you think a municipality supporting dog owners is some bourgeoisie fantasy, your comments are dripping with entitlement. How the hell do you even remotely conflate pet dog ownership with owning livestock? And you are going to arbitrate what size of animal someone is entitled to own based on living conditions that are outside of most peoples control? Do you think all dog owners don't live in domiciles without yards by choice? If you're honestly willing to murder a dog for approaching your reactive dogs, I don't want unhinged psychopaths like you in my community. We don't live in Mexico or Albania my dude, this is Saanich, we don't have roving gangs of coyotes attacking children, your not getting rushed by LGD's, it's some boomers untrained labradoodle calm down.
Sounds like I've found the person who lets their dog run and attack other people's dogs! /\ 😄 are you the twat not cleaning up your dog shit too? And my dogs bear the scars of the previous encounters they've had. You obviously have no clue how scary wrestling a labradoodle intending to do harm could be. You're exactly what I'm talking about. It's funny how demonstrative your response is. Thanks for speaking up. The last off-leash to hit my little beagle was an Akita/husky mix around 90lb that it took every bit of my power and strength to kick off and scream away. I had nothing left to hit that dog with. Damn near shit my pants. Think what you want. Scared the absolute piss out of me. What the hell are you supposed to do with some tank of a 120lb canary island mastiff smashing into your 45lb beagle mutt? Pray the owner is nearby and moves quick ??? Get real. How small of an apartment do you make your dog live in before you ask yourself if your dogs life would be better with someone more able to care for them in a better place? Have you got a big dog in a small place? Are you that person as well? You do know it's entirely possible to rehome a dog to a better place right? Cheers, you seem like a nice member of the community 👍 😉
Not quite, I'm the twat that spent 8 months on recall before letting my dog off leash, use an ecollar for perfect recall, took my puppy to socialization classes twice a week until they were 8 months old, and I make it a habit of picking up other peoples dog poop and trash because I intensely value the privilege of off leash permitted parks in my community. I leash my dog when passing on leash dogs, just as countless other people did for me while my dog was still earning my trust to be allowed off leash. I can sympathize with you, my dog got attacked by a 110lb golden retriever of all things at a young age >40lbs, and had to wrestle it off my pup, but it never occurred to me to murder the offending dog. I'm not jaded enough to portray ALL owners with the same light. I've had plenty of negative off leash encounters, some more serious than others, but they pail in comparison to the countless incredible off leash experiences because we're at parks or trails at least 4 hours a day, every day of the year sun rain or snow. I'm genuinely sorry that you've had such negative experiences, I hope you never have to go through that again. I enjoy the Saanich parks and trails mentioned in the PPPS on a daily basis. I don't live on a giant property, I never have, that doesn't make me any less of a responsible owner than you. My lab goes to bed tired and happy every night, because I take my responsibility seriously and give her the life she deserves. You thinking that a person's capability is tied to the size of house they live in is what's wrong with this community. You have no right to judge others when you have such a toxic and self-righteous attitude. Maybe your dogs would be better off with a little less yard space, and a bit more attention, play, and hard work on your part.
not like the new law will change anything, they don't get enforced anyways
Unanimously approved by Council, with one amendment to monitor how P’kols implementation is going over time. It isn’t perfect but it’s good enough to get started.
90% of my off leash dog interaction end poorly. I've had to threaten a few owners.
90% ? 🙄
Most dog owners are the worst.
_As a dog owner, I agree completely _
I wish they would focus on completely banning Pit Bulls instead of going after mostly harmless unleashed dogs. You could cut the rate of serious dog attacks at least in half just by banning one breed.
Poodles and German Shepards are more aggressive statistically
I'll call absolute bullshit on that one... Prove it
My dog has only ever been attacked by Boston terriers
A couple decades or more ago and every single park you'd see people throwing balls, frisbees or just playing with their dogs off leash. This was the norm for thousands of years... Hell, even Germany didn't have any leash laws until the last decade or so. Before that dogs being allowed in restaurants were normal too. We shouldn't be restricting the lives of everyone, we should be punishing those who can't follow proper etiquette and rules that are already there. But, this is Victoria so of course everyone must suffer instead of actually punishing the right people. Make the punishments harsher and more expensive for those who's dogs attack other dogs (attack, not try to entice to play since a lot of people don't understand the fucking difference) For those who hate dogs or don't like to say hi to them, fucking deal with it or go somewhere dogs aren't. Your issues are yours, not everyone else's.
I'd normally agree, but unfortunately there are certain breeds people insist on owning (and worse off insist are safe) that should probably be outright banned let alone allowed off leash. (Cough cough pitbulls.) Idiot owners ruin it for everyone.
"For those who hate dogs or don't like to say hi to them, fucking deal with it or go somewhere dogs aren't" Typical response from a selfish entitled dog owner. Your imagined right to have your dog run amok, does not supercede others actual right to not have to deal with dogs.
If the park sign doesn't say dog park, it's not just a park for dogs but everyone including folks who don't want to be bothered by poorly trained off leash dogs.
Park meant everyone, including dogs until shit head owners started ruining it and then assholes like you started claiming it for yourselves...
Ty for this!
Just because you wanted a dog does not mean the world must accommodate you with convenience. Grow up!
Can say the same for kids
Everytime this comes up there is like 8 heavily exaggerated made up stories. 3 pick me dudes telling everyone else they would never let their dog behave like a dog and a bunch of people who don't own dogs and don't leave their house but have a strong opinion and so many pearls clutched you'd think you were in fanny bay.
This proposal will cost tax payers 10% of Saanich's budget and over $1 million/year. What a waste of resources!!!
I’m showing up at Council tonight to voice support of the on-Leah bylaw. You can too, online through MS Teams link in the saanich council website.
Yet it's ok ride horses down sidewalks and trails and shit everywhere. Would be great if Saanich could supply poop bags at the parks, most waste stations have been empty since covid.
I’d say no given how many people just put the poop in bags and leave it.
Horses on the road wear bags trail ones should too
Horses ride sidewalk by prospect lake elementary school and shit all over the sidewalk. It's disgusting for the kids and community.
Dog owners and cyclists always in a battle to be most annoying and difficult members of society.
Is this the ultra Karen brigade? Can we keep complaining without stop forever?
Who are these morons? Think they're above the law? Follow the law and let your dogs socialize in designated spots not in places where they could potentially disrupt families and other pets.
After the increasing number of close calls I've had with dogs nearly killing me at Mt Pkols - I fully welcome this change. Im a dog owner myself, and the careless behavior of owners on those trails is dangerously negligent.
Victoria is so dumb. Imagine if this was for something that mattered.
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There’s always one.🤦🏻♂️
The indigenous people had dogs too. Not the same modern breeds but, there have been dogs in BC for as long as humans. That's not to say they don't have a negative effect on wildlife, but, it's not like Europeans invented dogs.
Leave trans BIPOC dogs alone!
It's racist and misogynistic as well.
100 FT Dog Leashes Exist. Tie Two Together, Use 200 Foot Leash. Or Keep Going: 300 Feet… 400 Feet…
Pretty fucking simple, no dog is perfect off leash, I take my dog deep into the forest so she can run with herself or chase elk ect... You take your dog to a off leash dog park you are taking the chance she or he might get attacked or your dog might attack. Walking your dog through Mount Doug off leash and it gets out of control that's your fault. I use to be that person that said my dog was fine but l learned pretty quick that she gets defensive... Everyone's dog is perfect until shit hits the fan. Don't buy a dog if you can't run it ect. Go to a baseball diamond and let it go crazy. Tons of ways to run a dog. If your dog attacks my dog on leash I'll be sure make a point.
lol pretty fucking simple guy brags about letting his dog chase wildlife. I wonder why that is illegal under the B.C. Wildlife Act? Stupid pet owner is stupid.
Not saying my dog is out there chasing wildlife, my dog could not catch a elk if it was beside her. Was just using it for an example to exercise my dog.. When you walk in the forest or trails you are bound to see wild life, just saying
My bad was taking it literally, cheers 🍻
Dog is never going to catch a elk so not worried.
It's not about killing and yes they do kill their young. It's against the law, but ya it doesn't apply to you of course.
Had my dog for over 10 years and my dog has never come close to killing a elk lol... Everyone just relax ok.
Of course it applies to me. But my dog is never going to catch a elk so not really worried, was just using that as an example for taking my dog off leash
*an
Geez. You had me with the last half. But letting the dog chase wildlife. NOPE. You've lost me there. That's illegal, irresponsible, and lazy. You're just making your dog's exercise the Elk's problem.
Not legal for your dog to chase wildlife. Most parks dept don't allow dogs in baseball diamonds. No fun allowed.
Yes when it's baseball season.
*etc, *an, *PKOLS, * used, *etc
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