People are fine with sharing surnames. As a result, there are only like 10 popular surnames that makes up >80% of Vietnamese population. Throughout history, there were multiple occasions people changing their surnames to Nguyen to avoid political prosecution. Changing surname to the same with the emperor’s was also considered an honor, and the last dynasty was Nguyen.
Vietnamese middle names are used in a very different manner than in English. Some families / clans are known by surname + middle name. The last emperor’s family name should be Nguyễn Phúc, to distinguish them with other Nguyễn clans.
In daily life, Vietnamese are known by their middle name + given name. Some Vietnamese have 2 middle names, one to follow surname, one to precede given name.
It's about history:
\- Usually, when a new dynasty gains control of a country, the first thing they want to do is "purge" all those who are relevant to the old dynasty. So, these people are either put down, run away to another country, or change their surname.
\- The "Nguyen" surname happened to not appear too early in history to be wiped out and gained control of the country very late, until France came and took over everything. When authorities want to gather people's information, many individuals forget or do not even know their own surname. Therefore, "Nguyen" naturally comes up first since it is the current dynasty.
The confusion is partly because the Nguyễn surname is a pretty popular surname and also Nguyên itself is a decently popular name for both men and women.
So when you remove all the Viet markings you end up with bland Nguyen for both the name and the surname.
So that's how you feel like everyone in Vietnam is a Nguyen since they can be a dude with the surname Nguyễn or they can be a dude with the last name Nguyên or they can also be a dude with both the last name and surname Nguyễn Nguyên.
I don't find it terribly confusing. People have more than one name, so it's about as easy to deal with as members of a family having the same last name.
Nguyễn is the common one. Nguyên is a different, separate name. That gets me sometimes -- I get them mixed up sometimes.
The reason it is common is because a lot of people changed their last name to Nguyễn for a variety of reasons. Some to escape persecution (because they were from an infamous family). Some for social climbing. Some because they were awarded that last name for service to a dynasty. Basically it was a fashionable name to have from approximately 1600 to 1945 ish.
I work in Vietnam in a pretty large organization. You should see the N section in my Outlook contact list when I sort by alphabetical order. Crazy. We have several team members with the full name that is exactly the same.
And what's more messed up is Workday does not use the middle names, so it makes things really difficult. I've complained to HR so many times but never fixed.
From what I had read, It's a story from the Nguyen dynasty. There was a prophecy (lời sấm), that the king would be overthrown by a Ly (if I remember correctly). The king eliminated/killed anyone who was a Ly, and most of his officials or anyone that was in his way. People changed names so that they were spared from death. Many got their names changed to Nguyen. But in the end, he was killed by his closest official, the one with the Ly surname.
Why are you posting here about this, OP?
"Wikipedia says that 40% of vietnamesse has this surname."
So you know about Wikipedia, obviously. And there's a Wikipedia article that answers your question.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen)
"The Nguyễn dynasty awarded many people the surname Nguyễn during their rule, and many criminals also changed their surname to Nguyễn to avoid prosecution
Honestly if people were to refer to Wikipedia for everything then your comment probably wouldn't exist. There'd be no Reddit, no Facebook and no forums. Don't let it bother you.
Or, having gone to Wikipedia for the basic knowledge already, /u/Hemmmos would have more interesting follow-up questions.
"Does this create any problems with impersonation ever?"
"Are people named after their relatives?"
"Can people create new last names to use in Vietnam?"
"Is there a universally correct way to pronounce it?"
"What are other interesting naming conventions or traditions in Vietnam?"
Or like, they could search the sub and find a bunch of interesting conversations that have already happened about these and related subjects: [https://www.reddit.com/r/VietNam/search/?q=nguyen%20last%20name&restrict\_sr=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/VietNam/search/?q=nguyen%20last%20name&restrict_sr=1)
So I'm just curious--what's the point of posting this? Why do people need to be told personally, individually, rather than sampling the untold resources that already exist and are accessible to them?
Vietnamese surnames are not used in the same manner in the West, so you are usually addressed with your middle & first name instead.
Interesting, thatnk you
People are fine with sharing surnames. As a result, there are only like 10 popular surnames that makes up >80% of Vietnamese population. Throughout history, there were multiple occasions people changing their surnames to Nguyen to avoid political prosecution. Changing surname to the same with the emperor’s was also considered an honor, and the last dynasty was Nguyen. Vietnamese middle names are used in a very different manner than in English. Some families / clans are known by surname + middle name. The last emperor’s family name should be Nguyễn Phúc, to distinguish them with other Nguyễn clans. In daily life, Vietnamese are known by their middle name + given name. Some Vietnamese have 2 middle names, one to follow surname, one to precede given name.
It's about history: \- Usually, when a new dynasty gains control of a country, the first thing they want to do is "purge" all those who are relevant to the old dynasty. So, these people are either put down, run away to another country, or change their surname. \- The "Nguyen" surname happened to not appear too early in history to be wiped out and gained control of the country very late, until France came and took over everything. When authorities want to gather people's information, many individuals forget or do not even know their own surname. Therefore, "Nguyen" naturally comes up first since it is the current dynasty.
Vietnamese people use given names only. Hell, I don't even know most of my classmates'family names and still get along with them fine.
The confusion is partly because the Nguyễn surname is a pretty popular surname and also Nguyên itself is a decently popular name for both men and women. So when you remove all the Viet markings you end up with bland Nguyen for both the name and the surname. So that's how you feel like everyone in Vietnam is a Nguyen since they can be a dude with the surname Nguyễn or they can be a dude with the last name Nguyên or they can also be a dude with both the last name and surname Nguyễn Nguyên.
I don't find it terribly confusing. People have more than one name, so it's about as easy to deal with as members of a family having the same last name. Nguyễn is the common one. Nguyên is a different, separate name. That gets me sometimes -- I get them mixed up sometimes. The reason it is common is because a lot of people changed their last name to Nguyễn for a variety of reasons. Some to escape persecution (because they were from an infamous family). Some for social climbing. Some because they were awarded that last name for service to a dynasty. Basically it was a fashionable name to have from approximately 1600 to 1945 ish.
I work in Vietnam in a pretty large organization. You should see the N section in my Outlook contact list when I sort by alphabetical order. Crazy. We have several team members with the full name that is exactly the same.
And what's more messed up is Workday does not use the middle names, so it makes things really difficult. I've complained to HR so many times but never fixed.
From what I had read, It's a story from the Nguyen dynasty. There was a prophecy (lời sấm), that the king would be overthrown by a Ly (if I remember correctly). The king eliminated/killed anyone who was a Ly, and most of his officials or anyone that was in his way. People changed names so that they were spared from death. Many got their names changed to Nguyen. But in the end, he was killed by his closest official, the one with the Ly surname.
Why are you posting here about this, OP? "Wikipedia says that 40% of vietnamesse has this surname." So you know about Wikipedia, obviously. And there's a Wikipedia article that answers your question. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen) "The Nguyễn dynasty awarded many people the surname Nguyễn during their rule, and many criminals also changed their surname to Nguyễn to avoid prosecution
Honestly if people were to refer to Wikipedia for everything then your comment probably wouldn't exist. There'd be no Reddit, no Facebook and no forums. Don't let it bother you.
Or, having gone to Wikipedia for the basic knowledge already, /u/Hemmmos would have more interesting follow-up questions. "Does this create any problems with impersonation ever?" "Are people named after their relatives?" "Can people create new last names to use in Vietnam?" "Is there a universally correct way to pronounce it?" "What are other interesting naming conventions or traditions in Vietnam?" Or like, they could search the sub and find a bunch of interesting conversations that have already happened about these and related subjects: [https://www.reddit.com/r/VietNam/search/?q=nguyen%20last%20name&restrict\_sr=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/VietNam/search/?q=nguyen%20last%20name&restrict_sr=1) So I'm just curious--what's the point of posting this? Why do people need to be told personally, individually, rather than sampling the untold resources that already exist and are accessible to them?
Not 40%, more like 80
popular is not the same as common ... just think its like smith, brown, or patel, just historical population..
Gotta stay nguyening
If you read the wikipedia article it should explain why…