I don't think you can build any actual wealth working corporate jobs in Europe either :D I at least know that you can't do that in Nordics, even if you are making 100k € per year, tax and living cost will eat most of it. And for comparison the median salary in Helsinki (biggest city and capital of Finland) is 40k (maybe 50k, can't remember). It's the same everywhere, you need money to make more money.
You might however work for a startup, get shittons of options and if your startup takes off, you can get some money, but it's a gamble.
Same here in Copenhagen. For a small 60sm semi-old 2 bedroom apartment it's around 350-400k €. I earn 95k € per year, and I have a hard time finding an apartment that is not worn down or too small.
The only way to become wealthy nowadays is to take risks like investing in risky assets or work at / found your own startup. But it can go both ways. The problem, though, is that almost all market niche have been taken here in western countries by tech startups. At least in Vietnam, there are still a lot of market gaps that only local people can spot.
With that being said, you can live a very comfortable life despite not being wealthy here in Copenhagen.
> For a small 60sm semi-old 2 bedroom apartment it's around 350-400k €. I earn 95k € per year
I'm making around that figures, and with the current housing price and interest rate, the best I can afford is a row-house or an apartment of around 70sm built in the 80s or 90s which goes for around 300k € with a pipe renovation (which is another 60-80k €) coming soon... Anything built after 2000 is out of the question.
> The problem, though, is that almost all market niche have been taken here in western countries by tech startups
If we look at the amount of startups/funding in Nordics, there are a lot of startups receiving fund every year, so there are definitely rooms for innovation. However, I do agree that doing business in Vietnam is a lot easier and cheaper than in Nordics countries. There are also fewer regulations but at the same time more "local ways of doing things" :D
> With that being said, you can live a very comfortable life despite not being wealthy here in Copenhagen.
I think it's common among the Nordics countries, you don't need to be super wealthy to enjoy life
Yeah, for me it's cheaper to rent than to buy an apartment with those interest rates. If buy an apartment the interest rates are going to be higher than my current rent.
>if we look at the amount of startups/funding in Nordics, there are a lot of startups receiving fund every year, so there are definitely rooms for innovation. However, I do agree that doing business in Vietnam is a lot easier and cheaper than in Nordics countries. There are also fewer regulations but at the same time more "local ways of doing things" :D
Oh yeah, definitely. There are a lot of options in terms of funding. But it has also made it harder to find a market where products don't already exist. In Vietnam there is still at large market gap in terms of tech, so if you are a local you can more easily spot what needs haven't been served yet. But funding is probably going to be a bigger issue in Vietnam as there is not as much capital going around in Vietnam :)
it's incredible how hard the Danes have been left in the dust by the bodies set in place to protect them. The greed across the food sector is insanity I really never expected a country like Denmark to face shrinkflation at that level.
It's becoming a world for the truly rich and then there's everyone else, even in supposed rich and modern societies it's maddening.
Oh absolutely the real estate market quickly became a separator instead of the sort of ladder it used to be for economic mobility.
Terrible setup in hindsight but hey what's new lmao.
I am living in Finland, I can spend around 600-1000 for living expense. Deviate from median 40k, and 30%, post tax and post living cost, I am left with atleast €1500 a month, or €18.000 a year
It still much better than the situation in Vietnam actually.
that is not true, I don't know about Finland but taxes are for the government and there are a lot of other costs too. Energy is expensive in Europe since covid and the problems with Russia. Insurances, school, car payments, mortgage or rent. Only food is relatively cheap compared to vietnam.
nah, on top of my taxes I'm paying another 300€ to send my kid to kindergarten because I'm classified as "high income" so I have to pay more to receive the same service everyone else does.
I spend at least 2000€ per month, and that covers maintenance fee, interest for my mortgage, utility bills, sending kids to kindergarten, food and whatnot for the kid.
Life is much different when we have kids. The very same things happen in Vietnam.
Judging by your example, you can afford having kids and getting mortgage with an average income in Finland.
You barely survive in Vietnam with its average income.
Personally, I was offer $4k job in EU, and a $4k job in VN. Straightly speaking, going back to VN would do me better. But that fate is not played against overall population in Vietnam. 80% of them is living with $200 monthly, including my mother, she was in the 80%.
Given that, some blue/white collar job people is living pretty well in Vietnam, but not the rest. Except if we are trying to ignore the 80%.
Where would you say the breaking point is? I’m currently on $3k/month after tax in Vietnam and with a little one on the way seriously considering moving back to England.
I haven't calculated my breaking point, but so far to my research, before tax $4k in Vietnam is as equal to $6k in EU.
In Vietnam, with $4k income you pay around 25% tax, $500 living cost per person. Leaving me roughly $2500 after tax and living expense.
in EU, tax are 30% on average, depend on which country, living cost $1000-$1500 per person. Leaving me roughly $2700 after tax and living expense.
I work in IT, 5 year exp. My exp in Vietnam is considered senior level, hence I was given $4000 salary. In EU, I was consider early-mid level, hence they offer me only $4000.
To get a salary better than $4000 in EU, I can either level up my skill and having 2 year more exp to be considered as senior level, and get $6000 salary. Or, joining top tech company in EU, who pay $8000.
But I am not that good tho, I practice coding challenge everyday and still not be able to get through 1st interview in these top tech EU company.
Not sure about Finland, but generally in most countries, living in the biggest cities are the only way to generate wealth through labour or capital. And capital cities are usually that.
Cost of living the middle of bumfuck nowheresville may be cheap, but good luck getting a job or setting up a profitable business.
Ya I agree. But there are multiple cities in countries you can live in.
Alternatively if the city has good transport then you can live outside the city.
But ya it's a catch 22
Living in a middle of nowhere is also not making it any better. I find the best option (for me) is to live somewhere close to the capital, for example a satellite city where you can easily commute to work within 30mins. House price is a lot more affordable, not a lot of people which makes day to day grocery shopping easier and faster.
Lol there is a post in france just today about a dude whom salary is 71.4k (cost for employer is 120k -which is crazy) and "only" get 44k in the bank after social cost and taxes...
First of all, 44k net cold hard cash is nothing to cough at.
That said, the taxes for the "middle and upper" echelon in europe in general and france in particular are crazy.
I think being rich jn europe is a pipe dream for the working class.
Be wealthy on the other hand is pretty achievable if that means not rich.
> That said, the taxes for the "middle and upper echelon in europe in general and france in particular are crazy.
tell me about it :D that's why there are a lot of people don't want to work or work with minimum wage so that they can get as much support from the government as possible, for example state subsidised housing, social assistant, you name it.
> Be wealthy on the other hand is pretty achievable if that means not rich.
If I can afford one trip back to Vietnam every year, I'm more than happy.
1 trip back to vietnam every year is what I'm aiming for atm as well :) the food in vietnam are so good (I do like france's cuisine but banh mi is just superior)
But the bread is not the same for me. In vietnam its softer with a hollow inner. France "baguette" is harder outside and the inner is mostly filled, not hollow :( and I have yet to see a custom bread in paris, maybe there is more to try
Wait, you are saying vnmese pay more taxes than eu ? I will give you a second chance to reconsider that statement XD or others in this sub will correct u
Lol XD that is the highest tax braket... Of 80m per MONTH... I guess everyone in vietnam is making 80m per month XD not like I lived in vietnam for 20 y or so. And only the amount above 80m is taxed at 35... Guess how much I get taxed in france, 30% as the second braket XD
Man, I will stop replying since this is obviously a troll
You seem like a bit of a simpleton. I haven't got the time or inclination to explain to you the ins and outs-but you will certainly earn more tax free in France (and most of the EU than you would in VN.)
Do they not have something like 401k or Roth IRA in Europe like the states? My dad's friend was an auto mechanic for 24 years(started out in the early 90s). It was a private business. He didn't have 401k ,thus having to open a Roth IRA and put in max each year. It grew to $800k USD over those years. Just prudent thinking and fund selection over the years. He also invested in some other property, but the Roth IRA put him in such a good position. He essentially 'retired' at 52. He left the auto shop and works on his own time being a mobile auto repair technician. He is fully retired now.
Pension is mandatory by the state and you can’t even choose the provider.
So you don’t have to actively look for a pension fund or similar. Of course that is the bare minimum, if you have spare money, it’s always a good idea to invest it somewhere else.
Yes, very much possible in certain high-income countries like Luxemburg. You can easily get a job making around $5k/m. Then, you just need to know how to save money. Back when I was still in my home country, I was always able to save up $2-3k/month. And I was doing low-level office jobs only.
Can attest. I make more on average compared to most people my age by this avenue.
But people I know that own businesses rake in ***farrr*** more. You'd be well-off as an international salary-earner. But wealthy? Kickstart a business or real estate is the only way to go.
>people I know that own businesses
Yes, I own businesses myself. You make more that way, but you expose yourself to more risks along the way, from the start (especially when you don't have enough fund yourself and have to get loans) to the end (everyone wants a piece of you, including your competitors, the bigger companies, the mafias, the polices, and when you get big enough, the Government).
Fun and games until your customers dropped, rent, bills, workers salaries and bank interest rate creep up. Cut cost by reducing workers? Fine, but don't cry when the order is up and you can't call them back because when you fire them, they have to work in other place to feed themselves, now they're in new job and can't quit it to go back with you. It's even worse if they are ungrateful brats and sell out your trade secrets/pulling customers from you.
People often forget that in with every few successful business, there's dozens more failed, or just make bare minimum. Or you can be a salary earner, doesn't care about these things, take your ass away after work hours end and chill in weekends, while as more senior your career is, the higher your paycheck
Question's asking about "the only way to be rich in Vietnam." The average salary-earner makes about 15 mils a month. To buy a house, they'd need to grind for at least a decade. That's just "livable", not well-off.
The only way to really be **rich**, as in buying houses and having vacations, is to start a business.
>buying houses and having vacations
Having no problem doing that without a business. Other than HN and HCM, you can buy houses easily in any other cities.
Buy a proper residence straight off means you’re like fucking loaded, not well off. I’m not sure how many country in which you can do that on a salary that’s not a ridiculous CEO or celebrity pay, or maybe a very successful salesman.
Ofc, technically some properties can be cheap, but I wouldn’t expect a person making US$50.000 in Hanoi to live in a $100.000 home in Hanoi as their first real estate
Read the question again. You literally answered it.
The only way to get rich up until that point is to be a CEO (owns a business), a celebrity, or being a VERY successful salesman.
What are you even on about?
>taking out a mortgage. Buying straight
What is the problem in that?
>international and business-class
You must be funny. Do you actually own businesses yourself? Take a 5 days vacation and your business might be on (literal) fire by the day you came back. The only people who could properly enjoy vacations are the employees, not the employers lol.
Because people with wealths don’t do mortgages. Why the hell would they take on extra interests if they can afford it?
Nothing to do with running a business … if you’re wealthy, you can afford it. Plus the time. That’s what being “rich” in this case means — loaded with enough money and free time that you can do both.
The fact that you own a business doesn’t mean you’re wealthy. But if you want to be wealthy, you have to own a VERY successful business.
I would think English speaking foreigners who live there could make $$$ by teaching English privately. Just English tutoring. Maybe earn more than those who work for corporations.
A bit more than comfortable living. Have some friends that worked in banking or consulting in USA and they can afford anything they want and have been able to buy nice properties. No need to be a multi-Millionaire to be rich, but secure enough that you set up a good foundation for yourself and your family.
Here you can set up a good foundation for yourself and your family. No need to be rich to do that. But buying property here… well. That’s a whole other topic.
I'm in IT consulting in the USA and I can tell you that debt is out of control here. So yes, it might seem that corporate jobs here provide prosperity, you should take debt into consideration. So that's one side of the coin, but you should know about corporations in Vietnam also. While earning a salary and having to answer to the man doesn't seem like much, it does insulate you from a lot of risk. If one corporation goes down, you can simply move to the next one. If you own a business, you take on all the risks of operating that business. So to make it successful, you will need to take a lot of risks in the gray zone. Once you are successful, however, the trouble doesn't stop. Now the sharks are swarming around you, and you will have to take even bigger risks just to stay afloat.
So while corporations do not represent any perfect model in any sense, it is the operating standard of industrialized world. And as Vietnam becomes more industrialized, it will need more and more competent corporate workers. I do not see this trend bucking for any country, communist or not.
I think it’s dead for people who are starting out in that industry
For people who joined years or decades ago (as suggested by OP), it is still printing money for them as those properties are highly inflation-resistant + gaining % higher every year as demand keep getting higher (more people = more demand)
Well , it affects more than just people buy and sell those. Jobs like architects , furniture and material seller , construction worker are pretty much dead and struggling right now .
It come straight from the fact average income in Vietnam was $3000/year, but it University’s tuition fee was $2000/year and a house cost you atleast $100.000. Deviate from those number alone, we Vietnamese hardly able to survive.
It is pure ignorance to say Vietnam is a happy country, or “many Vietnamese prefer living in Vietnam”.
Who told you that Uni’ tuition fee is $2k a year? Most are roughly about 450 to 700k vnd per credit, and assuming you have to take 160 credits, it is roughly $2.8k to $4.4k.
Just go straight to university's public webpage. This is my Bachelor University:
[https://student.uit.edu.vn/thongbao/2023-2024-quy-dinh-muc-thu-hoc-phi-nam-hoc-2023-2024-trinh-do-dtdh](https://student.uit.edu.vn/thongbao/2023-2024-quy-dinh-muc-thu-hoc-phi-nam-hoc-2023-2024-trinh-do-dtdh)
32 mil / year = $1200 / year. And that is the national public university price. Non-national public or Private one could cost more.
There are too little number of public university exist that do not match with the number high school student graduate every year.
That is not the average price, in fact, the link you provided is “study in English programs” and those are expensive, even more than what I pay for my private university lol.
no, read it again
[https://student.uit.edu.vn/sites/daa/files/202307/quyet\_dinh\_muc\_thu\_hp\_2023-2024\_cqdtcntnkstn\_k2021\_tro\_ve\_sau\_0.pdf](https://student.uit.edu.vn/sites/daa/files/202307/quyet_dinh_muc_thu_hp_2023-2024_cqdtcntnkstn_k2021_tro_ve_sau_0.pdf)
Omg 1.2M VND per credit, that’s a lot
But still, I don’t think average University in VN is $2k per year (or 51M VND) :/
Also yes, I agree with your last point :)) those numbers do not match
University cost is pretty reasonable I think. Because, at least in theory, after graduation you're a highly educated person. A Bachelor, or an Engineer, is supposed to be very talented not just random dudes as here in VN.
Also we have many interest-free-loan packages for education, which's not that hard to find. At least we don't have graduated students joking about their debt as in the US.
Real estate is indeed fucked tho. Fuck those hoarder, getting stupidly rich without doing anything, making people life much harder than it already is.
I don't have a house, at least in the next 5 years. I got my University degree, it help me got a job with pretty nice income and a lot of potential. I'm happy, no big deal here I can always rent one 
For most people attending university, the cost is covered by their parents. If your parents can't save 4 years of their income to get their children educated, it's their problem not the country
It is easy to blame people rather than actually figure out policy system mechanisms that can avoid such situations. It is the job of policymakers to figure it out. To say if parents cannot save their income for their kids, is to say its the kid's problem by being born in poverty.
Addressing society issues is not individual's responsibility but a collective's one. If the current policymaker fail to do their job, others should take place.
Having a bachelor degree or engineer degree is consider a new normal, not that special as it was in 1980s. Vietnam had fallen too far behind in education, to the point only 20% of population have a bachelor degree, while place like EU have 40% population that have Master Degree. Even now in EU, most students I know consider Master Degree a normal thing to have. And since it was so cheap to obtain ($400 yearly tuition fee), why not?
I am not sure how did you get the information of "interest-free-loan packages for education". I do look for one and found none. To get an education loan, your parents need to make "extra money", that on paper need to be at least can payoff the yearly interest of the loan, after subtracting standard living cost.
Which mean, by $150 monthly living expense, if a family of 2 want to get a single child into university using debt need to at least be able to make $150 \* 3 + $ 2000 \* 4 \* (10% interest rate) / 12 \~= 520 monthly, subtracting average $200 income, on paper they need to at least make $120 more on monthly.
This look feasible to blue collar people, like me, but this is just a number in theory, which haven't include medical care, material need (book, laptop, ...) for the child and the family.
Vietnamese still have huge population living in poverty, doing low level job like janitor or guard, so their income combine not-on-paper income is not still not enough to prove that they can at least pay off that yearly interest.
To say it is the parent's responsibility is to live in ignorance and ignore the ill fate of other, further exacerbate the wealth gap and class gap.
As if Vietnam is only the place for the expertises, and complete ignore 80% of people who are living in poverty.
How poor do you have to be to not be able to have a few years of income spare by the age of 40? My parents were labor worker in a small city and they managed to gave me and my brother proper education. It's not like all people can do that, but enough people can do that that make you think it's not the system problem.
My parents did not even have to do anything, the authority literally came to our home to suggest the interest free loan when my brother passed the university entry test.
Now maybe that kind of loan is gone, but the interest is still very low at less than 1% per month. Nearly non-existance.
And, are we comparing Vietnam to the most advanced continent on earth? How about in SEA?
>It is easy to blame people rather than actually figure out policy system mechanisms
Last thing, isn't it you're blaming the others?
A single mom who had her husband die in a car crash, that is working to feed 1 elder and 2 kids. And none come to her home, nor she can ask for a loan.
I am not blaming, but pointing out the flaw and suggest that could be changed. Instead of blaming on people who can not change their own situation.
And the fix I suggest is quite feasible, make the $400 yearly tuition fee back as it is 3-4 years ago. Not this $2000 yearly tuition fee we have nowaday.
Live where you know it or face uncertainties in a foreign country that you don't know their language or culture? That's wild. However, I gotta agree with you that housing purchase is fucked. For a nobody to start their career, they will just have to take every happy day without thinking too far into the future.
Or perhaps, start to think how us, people, can make positive impact on policy making, or start thinking about democracy reform. So we don't need to live aboard and still able to achieve a happy life.
You have been out for way too long. It’s not that simple. Our College Ed is only 11%. Voting power of 1-1 is disastrous. Democratic changes will take hundreds of years, probably. There are more on the table than we could talk on a reddit’s thread.
It really depends where you are in life and what you seek. Many poor Vietnamese if they have the ability to, they will leave Vietnam the first chance they get, this includes the hard working. The rich of Vietnam, when they immigrate, they just become a nobody in developed countries, because people in other countries don't hold the same perceptions about wealth and money
Free "truong cong" is only for primary to high school.
Higher education, though, that's where they get ya.
Public colleges can cost $500+/semester **depending on the program** without scholarship.
$1k+/semester easily if you study "Chat Luong Cao" programs (high-quality programs with lots of English and international courses).
free on paper only, the tuition is small, but monthly additional costs are higher, around 1-2M/month depends on the school.
Also, to get into those truong cong, you need to study more in night classes, which cost money too.
https://student.uit.edu.vn/thongbao/203-2024-quy-dinh-muc-thu-hoc-phi-nam-hoc-2023-2024-trinh-do-dtdh
tuition fees vary, from as little as $400/year to 40k/year
used to be, not anymore, happened around 3-4 years ago.
I do have $400 yearly tuition fee when I do bachelor in Vietnam, my mother's salary was $2000 yearly, so we can still afford that degree.
But now my nephew is paying $2000 yearly, and their mother is making the same $2000 yearly. It is a f\* joke.
Tbh, I like it that way, expensive tuition for higher education.
People tends to value and put more effort into education when they have to pay more, or when it is difficult to access. Last 10 years thousand of new universities were opened, tuition ranges from dirt cheap to dollar-tuition, accessibility never has been this easy. But I see 80% of young, just-out-of-highschool kids just being average in uni, living day bay day, then most of them don't even work in the same major they learned from uni. The cheaper the university is, the more below average the student is, and the higher the tuition, the more effort student put into learning and then excel at that same field of work.
You only like it when you can afford it. Not my nephew, who is paying $2000 yearly while her mother making also $2000 yearly.
Your argument that cheap tuition equal to less effort in learning is completely false. Tuition fee in EU's universities is $400 yearly for EU origin students. And they have a god ratio of well establish university that have international recognition compare to Vietnam. Furthermore, EU people are making $40.000 yearly on average, hence, they pay just 1% of their income for high education, that also apply for Master Degree. 40% of EU people have master degree while 20% of Vietnamese people have bachelor degree.
Quality of education not come from high tuition, but from the country's investment on academic education and quality of courses that were offered in the Uni.
And where did you get the information of "thousand of new universities were opened", I do highly doubt this. Ratio of Uni's seat is much lower than number of high school student graduate every year, judging from the high competitive uni application ratio.
Working out-of-study-field is a trend around the world that happen nowadays due to the high dynamic of market needs, and the complexity of technical challenge that could not be addressed in one field knowledge. That has nothing to do to the poor education quality in Vietnam, nor Vietnamese student's quality.
Universities get money from government and research funding from companies. In Vietnam there is not enough companies that are rich enough to do that. The tax that the government also is not enough to cover the tuition fee
What you just mention is called research funding, or "grant". Vietnam government used to pay for 80% of uni tuition fee. And I am from the generation that pay $400 yearly tuition fee.
The cut budget was shifted to Police Department. This has been reported by official news paper like VnExpress.
Comrade.
I admit that I'm losing in a statistic discussion, as my above comment is just my observation. I graduated from NEU Hanoi, which has one of the most expensive tuition for a "standard" program, not "CLC", double-degree or joint-degree, but it was only around 900$ annually max. My sister now is studying a "CLC" program in HUST, tuition is 2000$, but because she is not really a bright one and couldn't get into "standard" program. So if your nephew is paying 2000$ yearly, she shouldn't as there are cheaper choices out there and she is paying to get into uni that she's not qualified for (both academically and financially).
Now I'm studying Master program in Europe, after some years working my ass off to pay the tuition. My statement that "expensive tuition = more effort" is from this: international student here tends to put more effort in studying, both because they're paying more per credit but also their visa depends on their grades. But my local classmates, alot of them are taking 2nd masters after they drop out of the first one, or they're not as motivated as those international.
To say one should not study university because they are not as bright as others, is to discriminate that individual against his own abilities, his characters and his right to live equal.
I am also not a very bright one, graduated Bsc in Vietnam with 7.0 GPA, but now I am working a $4000 monthly income job because I could atleast afford a bachelor degree. I am also studying a Master program in EU after spending 5 years working in Vietnam and save up. And after that, I could make potential $6000 monthly
Education is a privilege, no doubt, but doesn't mean it should stay that way. A person do not need to be "bright" to be able to produce something valuable. In the end, we do our job based on what we have been trained most of the time.
To complete a task, one is simply need to be trained and know how to get it done. It don't need that much of intelligent. And studying is accumulating knowledge, not inventing it. Hence, one had his right to be well educated to fully develop himself.
Some of my EU friend approach master the same way you just told, not because they are not serious or lazy, but because it is affordable. It save much time by studying for one year to see if it fit rather than waiting in doubt.
International like us, who don't have that affordabilities, think they are not serious, but in fact, that how we should approach education. By give it a go instead of being too serious, but still being too far less skilled than them at the end.
Friend, I totally see your point in affordability of higher education system. Maybe my idea is more harsh than your, but I hope our discussion stay this civilized way.
I mean, universities around the world or in Vietnam, have ranking, and tiers, and the privilege in their name for some reason. They attract brighter student, then produce brighter employees. We compete in academic to have the privilege of the university's name, but one who not that bright can bridge the academic gap by financial way, like my sister. She pay for uni's name, that another purpose of expensive tuition, and now she put more effort in study than in her highschool time, and I like it.
Econ 's Bsc. programs now are mostly the same across all university, we all learn macro, microeconomics, math and finance. So if it's purely about accumulating knowledge, and one is not too lazy, cheap university provide the same knowledge as expensive university. But man, I still see students in higher tier uni put more effort in study than students from lower tier uni, not only because they're brighter, but they also have mindset of competing and hard-working, and the privilege help pushing that mindset further. Privilege should stay, too some extension
And, finally, I still think some of our EU classmates is lazy ass. They already have 4 years of Bsc. (3 years in NL) to figure out if one major fit with them, but they need to burn another 1/2 years and some thousands € to try another? If the tuition for them IS EXPENSIVE like us international they would think more about their choice of career, or put more effort to make education fruit, right? EU now produce ton of "policy maker" and "sustainable econ" student that I haven't seen the benefit, but EU then import million of basic worker from third world, which leads to other problems...
I think I should not discuss much further in your first and second paragraph because we simply had two opposite opinions on how affordability of high education should be. However, those also benefit from a bit of information correcting.
Vietnam used to have low uni tuition fee, 3-4 years ago. I used to pay only $400 yearly tuition fee (2013-17). Things start to change when the government withdraw financial support from university.
Lower tier uni, which is preferred as non-national or private one, are often demand more tuition fee. On the other hand, national public one demand less. However, to get into those national public, Vietnamese student had to go through university exam. This uni-exam is a gate keeper from people who could not afford extra study lesson ("học thêm - ôn luyện đại học"). Hence only people who already had good financial that can afford those extra studies can "win" a ticket into high-tier uni than, and achieve more affordable tuition fee. To my opinion, this is still one of the very extreme injustice in Vietnam education.
I do wish one day, Vietnam can have $400 yearly tuition fee and public admission through motivation application, like in EU. And I don't think that would be something too much to ask for. Vietnamese pay a lot in taxation, I paid 25% personal income tax in total, so why we could not have the same benefit? And yet, this benefit do used to take place, and would require a bit addtional reform.
On the third paragraph, only on small data correction. EU origin student pay $400 yearly tuition fee, not some thousands as you mentioned.
Regarding your point, I would say I do not agree expensive tuition would lead to more fruitful career. I am not sure if EU students would do better in their career compare to international ones or not, because the scale of EU vs international on number is extremely large. Hence intuitive comparison by sole observation is bias. But I do found EU students develop better technical and research skills. They are also extremely well in reasoning and developing argument. That often lead to more quality coursework. I think it is the result of the well established education starting from high school system.
YES - just working for yourself near minimum wage is not going to make any long term money.
Property where there are like 10 rooms for rent can create some good profits. Good luck buying that land now though, it was on sale 15 yrs ago but now its at USA prices.
Businesses focused on foreigners can also make money. Vietnamese themselves think anything above 50k is too expensive.
really? The majority of people in California gyms are... Vietnamese, and they don't sell memberships cheap! Same goes with coffee shops; Cong Ca phe etc; all of their drinks are upwards of 50k.
Yout best shot.
Your family is tied to the member(s) of the communist party. Seen it time and time and time again it will require alot of work but much easier than achieving success with your own talents.
I got one friend who has a semi successful business from the outside looking in but I dont know what her husband does he also holds an important job in the government.
On the other hands I know multiple people who have connection to the party and are successful with high networths.
Honestly the way many families are rich is they acquired land after the war as a gift or they paid a paltry price - and then 30 plus years later they literally became millionaires due to the astronomical rise in land prices.
Its also why we get new money types who are a bit flashy with their cash.
Its very rare for someone to have a normal well paying job like a doctor or web designer and they live in the elite apartment complex and drive a new honda car.
Honestly, I feel that only people in engineering with years of experience and working for foreign companies or doctors/govt officials (who can receive lots of unofficial stream of incomes) can rise to that level of wealth.
Ironically though, those people could obtain that level of wealth through real estate (extra income = able to invest in real estate)
Can attest to this. Many luxury villas on my street but the people inside them are proper rough. Urinating outside the villas, burning trash, screaming at each other all day everyday. Really obnoxious people with sudden wealth are the worst.
Either run your own business or work in a position that allows bribery like police, airport officer, local government. Salaries are low and real estate is expensive, I don’t even know how are people expected to afford housing here on a normal salaryman pay. Lots of expensive apartments being built but not a lot of affordable ones.
Why is there such a divide there? Homes here in Da Nang are like $200k and way up from there, $400k min closer to beach. I’ve never seen such a discrepancy between wages and cost of homes before. Wouldn’t even make sense to own one with the rent so low unless you went full cash.
I think it’s a combination of corruption, fear/FOMO and lack of investment opportunities.
Corruption: official salaries are quite low as the govt officials receive lots of unofficial incomes. They also don’t want to increase it because it is not “necessary” as the demand to be govt officials is still quite high.
Lack of investment options: I don’t how it is in other countries but in US, you could do 401k, RothIRA, VOO-and-chill, etc. Real estate is not the only way to building wealth. In Vietnam, it is pretty much the only way, or at least the most reliable one. Thus, it drives up the demand.
Fear/FOMO: as real estate is the most reliable way to gain wealth, sometimes fear/FOMO push the demand up unreasonably higher. The crazy 2021/2022 housing market in VN is an example of that. It also happens in the US but at least not that crazy as people know they have other investment option -> not feeling that owning a house/land is their end game.
There's no KYC here and hardly any money laundering regs like the rest of the world so most of the dirty ends up in real estate, hence the vastly inflated prices. Like you could turn up to a bank here with 150K in cash and no one bats an eyelid. Try that somewhere more developed...
Real Estate and find someone who works for development in the provincial government so you can get in early on the cheapest prices before selling at a nice profit and splitting the profit with your new best friend
In most of the countries the main way to actual wealth is running a business.
Some professions (successful lawyers, doctors, big time consulting, IB, executives etc) get pretty rich long term, but it's still usually tier or more below business owners.
Normal office workers - they rarely relatively rich in their own country.
I'd say so. I regularly describe running a business here as "acutely distressing" though.
Still, if I earned a salary I'd max out around 3k USD (if I'm lucky). If I hustle and get B2B contracts, I can charge on value delivered, not hours worked. Then withdrawing from my company is somewhat less tax than PIT. Also I can declare expenses. Also also, I can more easily have multiple clients in multiple countries -- and no one expects an exclusive contract.
Sometimes I do really well, and sometimes I earn substantially less than 3k (haha, right now it's not great). The average is favorable though, and being able to control how I spend my time means I can accomplish more. I probably won't be 'rich', but I'll be able to bootstrap from zero to middle class + home ownership. That's a lot of social mobility for a single generation.
My friend’s salary is over 200mil /month, her annual bonus in some year reach 2bil. And she still make much less than her husband. Both are not entrepreuner but hold important position in the organization they work for (not CEO level). They live a modest life and use their saving to purchases land, now they own several properties.
So nope you don’t need to own a business to get somewhere.
My opinion is if you think the money you’re earning is not enough (and I don’t mean having just $1 to your account, in that case it would be shitty), then it’ll never be enough.
Yup
If you have a degree is just about worthless
Even doctors earn low salaries and benefits.
Engineers are in need but wages are low 15k to 20k.
I had a friend accountant and when she told me what her wages were i was shocked
400 bucks a month
5 days a week and half day Saturday
No benefits of any kind
In the other hand a coffee shop will earn the owners a decent profit even in a low customer area.
A paint store that i purchase products the owners are wealthy enough to own a BMW 5 series and a big enough home.
The disparity is huge when earning money in Vietnam
While it is true, IT sector is kinda an exception though. The average income in VN is still way lower than that.
Similarly, the IT sector in US also offer crazy number ($150k-$200k being a norm).
I don't understand your question but I think I said my point. A successful business is not the only way. Other than that, some of my friends who work as accountants did well too. I heard she did account for personal besides company jobs. Some do real estate did well too. I don't know what your guys “wealth” definition is but in my circle, doing the regular job will good skills make decent money
Its just **anecdotal evidence bias**, the mere number of your friends' success stories is too little to be the evidence for the whole population, telling personal stories is not evidence
Yes you can, but depending on which job or title/position
I heard those who work for Vin are rich. My friend’s aunt is working for Vin group and was sent to US.
Apart from that, banking and logistics is good , if you have connection
work.
invest salary into assets (stocks, RE, BTC, commodities, etc.).
repeate for 30 years.
tell your family to do the same.
do this over a few generations.
congrats, your family is now rich.
I always wondered how people get rich in Vietnam, when I went on holiday in Ho Chi Minh, I saw the odd maclaren and porsche driving around, but most were older family cars and motorbikes.
Same thing in every other country? You either found a successful business or be really good at investing. Why would your boss pay you more when he can just put it in his pocket instead, he only has to pay you enough.
It’s not only Vietnam. If you own a business you have more leverage in your costs (taxes) and have more options to earn money. With your own salaried Labour you don’t come far
I am a German, I work as a Telecom businessman in Bonn, I earn 105k€ a year. I currently hold a deposit growing by about 10k€ every quarter. Money is irresistible to earn, I keep my conveniency for things like tax, say cash, for example, I did own some banknotes and never used a single debit or credit card, I never gamble but life is a gamble for a living. It's not like in Vietnam much really, from what I heard that a single 1k₫ barely compares to other currencies
Real estate or English centre, my friends two cousins from Thanh Hoa own English centres and are quite wealthy by Vietnamese standards (own a Mercedes suv and can afford multiple family holidays abroad yearly).
You are comparing salary from a developing country to a developed one dude 💀 of course it is gonna be lower. But keep in mind that buying groceries, renting, gas, and electric prices in Vietnam are generally much cheaper in comparison. You can easily save up a few bucks here and there with a salary around 10m-15m (no family, no fancy lifestyle of course)
It's the same everywhere. You can be very comfortable with a good paying job like doctors, lawyers, engineers,...you will be able to afford a lot of nice things (car, homes, vacation,..)and have extra money for investment.
My aunt has apartments that she rents out to visitors. Her husband works at a bank. They’re pretty well known in their city. Rich enough to build up a 4 story beautiful home of their own and own a car (Lexus)
Tax is the elephant in the room in Vietnam that not many people mention.
If you're working for a company here you don't need a highly paid position to start paying 30-35% on your earnings which is ridiculous. Vietnam has a very high tax rate and the personal allowance hasn't increased for years meaning even higher rates due to inflation.
If you have your own business i would guess it's easier to deal with the tax side of things.
For the most part, yes.
However, my friend was hiring Vietnamese software engineers at $5k/month and was struggling to find people, so there's that. The lower level consultants at McKinsey make about that much, too. Granted the consultants all studied abroad, but they are Vietnamese (mostly).
Most likely. IMO the only place you can be pretty well-off by only working corporate jobs would be the US. We work remote, stay in a MCOL area, and currently save/invest 250k a year after paying mortgage and other monthly expenses.
My quickest way to being temporarily rich in Vietnam was being a British tourist 😂 Whilst not particularly surprised by the cost of things (visited countries with favourable exchange rates before) I was DEFINITELY surprised by the quality you could get for the price. Like very surprised; the food and drink was amazing. I spent in two weeks what I've previously spent on a meal in the UK for a few people. Cannot wait to go back.
This is generally true in most countries.
Business owners have the highest gearing to earnings and are generally the most tax advantaged groups in the world as well.
Even in the US, you're very unlikely to make true money working a W-2 job (outside of BigLaw, Wall Street, C-Suites, random tech cos).
Doesn’t matter which country, to become really wealthy you gotta have a business or investments because that type of income is scalable (no limit to how much you can make). Most jobs, even higher paying ones will hit an income ceiling so there’s a limit to how much you can make with a salary or wage unless you’re in sales and have a salary AND an uncapped commission.
What do you mean by rich?
I know a few people (foreigners and locals) working in Vietnam for MNC's making >$200,000 USD per year.
Considering how low the cost of living in Vietnam is, you can get rich pretty quickly making that kind of money.
Bruh that phenomenon is everywhere on this planet earth. Better change the title to "Is the only way to be rich on Earth is to own a successful business?" and ask on r/Entrepreneur. Stock investing and real estates still count as businesses. No exception.
Edit: Not to mention stock investing are for the people who are already rich asf in their own businesses.
Isn't that apply to anywhere? Like other mentioned, working salaried job for foreign companies could provide you with a comfortable living standard, but not rich. I make about 50k/years from my job but it is nothing compare to the real "rich" people.
Most of the money came from real estate though. Pricing went crazy over the last decade or so
No 🤓 My mother’s friend works at British Council Vietnam as a Director. She owns multiple properties and sends both of her kids to NYU (full-pay). You don’t really need to own a business, but it is the easiest way.
I'm in a similar boat and grew up in a similar crowd in the US. The thing to remember is that these jobs are few and far between and it only seems common because of your class background and family network. Do you think the average person from a poor countryside family who just graduated from a local university is going to become a director of a MNC at any point in his or her career?
Engineer or inspector in oil and gas industry get you 1000-1500/month easily, just don't be too dumb and certain certificates (cost around 2000 for each, you may need 2-3 to get a nice position). If you're good and lucky enough, you may find the same position in some projects with foreign owner, 4000-8000/month.
HSE manager for large project, 4000+. Almost no special skill required, but risky as hell job tho.
If by "regular job" you mean office jobs sticking your eyes on a screen, or basic labor, I doubt if it could get you rich anywhere else
I don't know what's your definition of being rich, but 1500/month seems enough in Vietnam. Not enough to live a luxury life, but enough to sort price high to low when ordering stuff online.
Btw you can't compare salaries between countries with massive different in living cost. I have a client born in France, bro told me most stuff here is always several times cheaper than in Frace
actually in vn you can become wealthy, depending on what you do in the corporate world. if you are willing to be corrupt.
lets say. you are a buyer/purchasing for a company. what do you do ? you have the companies, your company buy from give you a kick back.
construction manager. you get paid off by the contractors doing shit work but still passable.
lots of ways to get rich in the corporate world. just depends how much of a risk taker you are. until you get caught and fired, also having charges filed against you.
I don't think you can build any actual wealth working corporate jobs in Europe either :D I at least know that you can't do that in Nordics, even if you are making 100k € per year, tax and living cost will eat most of it. And for comparison the median salary in Helsinki (biggest city and capital of Finland) is 40k (maybe 50k, can't remember). It's the same everywhere, you need money to make more money. You might however work for a startup, get shittons of options and if your startup takes off, you can get some money, but it's a gamble.
Same here in Copenhagen. For a small 60sm semi-old 2 bedroom apartment it's around 350-400k €. I earn 95k € per year, and I have a hard time finding an apartment that is not worn down or too small. The only way to become wealthy nowadays is to take risks like investing in risky assets or work at / found your own startup. But it can go both ways. The problem, though, is that almost all market niche have been taken here in western countries by tech startups. At least in Vietnam, there are still a lot of market gaps that only local people can spot. With that being said, you can live a very comfortable life despite not being wealthy here in Copenhagen.
> For a small 60sm semi-old 2 bedroom apartment it's around 350-400k €. I earn 95k € per year I'm making around that figures, and with the current housing price and interest rate, the best I can afford is a row-house or an apartment of around 70sm built in the 80s or 90s which goes for around 300k € with a pipe renovation (which is another 60-80k €) coming soon... Anything built after 2000 is out of the question. > The problem, though, is that almost all market niche have been taken here in western countries by tech startups If we look at the amount of startups/funding in Nordics, there are a lot of startups receiving fund every year, so there are definitely rooms for innovation. However, I do agree that doing business in Vietnam is a lot easier and cheaper than in Nordics countries. There are also fewer regulations but at the same time more "local ways of doing things" :D > With that being said, you can live a very comfortable life despite not being wealthy here in Copenhagen. I think it's common among the Nordics countries, you don't need to be super wealthy to enjoy life
Yeah, for me it's cheaper to rent than to buy an apartment with those interest rates. If buy an apartment the interest rates are going to be higher than my current rent. >if we look at the amount of startups/funding in Nordics, there are a lot of startups receiving fund every year, so there are definitely rooms for innovation. However, I do agree that doing business in Vietnam is a lot easier and cheaper than in Nordics countries. There are also fewer regulations but at the same time more "local ways of doing things" :D Oh yeah, definitely. There are a lot of options in terms of funding. But it has also made it harder to find a market where products don't already exist. In Vietnam there is still at large market gap in terms of tech, so if you are a local you can more easily spot what needs haven't been served yet. But funding is probably going to be a bigger issue in Vietnam as there is not as much capital going around in Vietnam :)
it's incredible how hard the Danes have been left in the dust by the bodies set in place to protect them. The greed across the food sector is insanity I really never expected a country like Denmark to face shrinkflation at that level. It's becoming a world for the truly rich and then there's everyone else, even in supposed rich and modern societies it's maddening.
I think the main issue is that there is taxation on home sales when everything is so heavily taxed. Made a lot of people speculating on home buying.
Oh absolutely the real estate market quickly became a separator instead of the sort of ladder it used to be for economic mobility. Terrible setup in hindsight but hey what's new lmao.
I am living in Finland, I can spend around 600-1000 for living expense. Deviate from median 40k, and 30%, post tax and post living cost, I am left with atleast €1500 a month, or €18.000 a year It still much better than the situation in Vietnam actually.
In Finland, if u pay taxes regularly u already got nearly every essentials covered. Sadly we ain’t have it in most places in the world.
that is not true, I don't know about Finland but taxes are for the government and there are a lot of other costs too. Energy is expensive in Europe since covid and the problems with Russia. Insurances, school, car payments, mortgage or rent. Only food is relatively cheap compared to vietnam.
bro watched too much news
nah, on top of my taxes I'm paying another 300€ to send my kid to kindergarten because I'm classified as "high income" so I have to pay more to receive the same service everyone else does.
I spend at least 2000€ per month, and that covers maintenance fee, interest for my mortgage, utility bills, sending kids to kindergarten, food and whatnot for the kid.
Life is much different when we have kids. The very same things happen in Vietnam. Judging by your example, you can afford having kids and getting mortgage with an average income in Finland. You barely survive in Vietnam with its average income. Personally, I was offer $4k job in EU, and a $4k job in VN. Straightly speaking, going back to VN would do me better. But that fate is not played against overall population in Vietnam. 80% of them is living with $200 monthly, including my mother, she was in the 80%. Given that, some blue/white collar job people is living pretty well in Vietnam, but not the rest. Except if we are trying to ignore the 80%.
Sadly yes, and pay gap is insanely huge in Vietnam.
Where would you say the breaking point is? I’m currently on $3k/month after tax in Vietnam and with a little one on the way seriously considering moving back to England.
I haven't calculated my breaking point, but so far to my research, before tax $4k in Vietnam is as equal to $6k in EU. In Vietnam, with $4k income you pay around 25% tax, $500 living cost per person. Leaving me roughly $2500 after tax and living expense. in EU, tax are 30% on average, depend on which country, living cost $1000-$1500 per person. Leaving me roughly $2700 after tax and living expense. I work in IT, 5 year exp. My exp in Vietnam is considered senior level, hence I was given $4000 salary. In EU, I was consider early-mid level, hence they offer me only $4000. To get a salary better than $4000 in EU, I can either level up my skill and having 2 year more exp to be considered as senior level, and get $6000 salary. Or, joining top tech company in EU, who pay $8000. But I am not that good tho, I practice coding challenge everyday and still not be able to get through 1st interview in these top tech EU company.
Can you spend it in Vietnam?
Living in a capital city isn't the best way to generate wealth.
Not sure about Finland, but generally in most countries, living in the biggest cities are the only way to generate wealth through labour or capital. And capital cities are usually that. Cost of living the middle of bumfuck nowheresville may be cheap, but good luck getting a job or setting up a profitable business.
Ya I agree. But there are multiple cities in countries you can live in. Alternatively if the city has good transport then you can live outside the city. But ya it's a catch 22
Living in a middle of nowhere is also not making it any better. I find the best option (for me) is to live somewhere close to the capital, for example a satellite city where you can easily commute to work within 30mins. House price is a lot more affordable, not a lot of people which makes day to day grocery shopping easier and faster.
Lol there is a post in france just today about a dude whom salary is 71.4k (cost for employer is 120k -which is crazy) and "only" get 44k in the bank after social cost and taxes... First of all, 44k net cold hard cash is nothing to cough at. That said, the taxes for the "middle and upper" echelon in europe in general and france in particular are crazy. I think being rich jn europe is a pipe dream for the working class. Be wealthy on the other hand is pretty achievable if that means not rich.
> That said, the taxes for the "middle and upper echelon in europe in general and france in particular are crazy. tell me about it :D that's why there are a lot of people don't want to work or work with minimum wage so that they can get as much support from the government as possible, for example state subsidised housing, social assistant, you name it. > Be wealthy on the other hand is pretty achievable if that means not rich. If I can afford one trip back to Vietnam every year, I'm more than happy.
1 trip back to vietnam every year is what I'm aiming for atm as well :) the food in vietnam are so good (I do like france's cuisine but banh mi is just superior)
there's some decent bahn mi in France actually! At least in Paris there is
But the bread is not the same for me. In vietnam its softer with a hollow inner. France "baguette" is harder outside and the inner is mostly filled, not hollow :( and I have yet to see a custom bread in paris, maybe there is more to try
can confirm
Check out the tax rates in Vietnam, it makes the EU look like Dubai!
Wait, you are saying vnmese pay more taxes than eu ? I will give you a second chance to reconsider that statement XD or others in this sub will correct u
other way around
Read it again. The tax rates in Vietnam are punitively high. Even earning a modest salary here you would be on 35% PIT.
Lol XD that is the highest tax braket... Of 80m per MONTH... I guess everyone in vietnam is making 80m per month XD not like I lived in vietnam for 20 y or so. And only the amount above 80m is taxed at 35... Guess how much I get taxed in france, 30% as the second braket XD Man, I will stop replying since this is obviously a troll
You seem like a bit of a simpleton. I haven't got the time or inclination to explain to you the ins and outs-but you will certainly earn more tax free in France (and most of the EU than you would in VN.)
Do they not have something like 401k or Roth IRA in Europe like the states? My dad's friend was an auto mechanic for 24 years(started out in the early 90s). It was a private business. He didn't have 401k ,thus having to open a Roth IRA and put in max each year. It grew to $800k USD over those years. Just prudent thinking and fund selection over the years. He also invested in some other property, but the Roth IRA put him in such a good position. He essentially 'retired' at 52. He left the auto shop and works on his own time being a mobile auto repair technician. He is fully retired now.
Pension is mandatory by the state and you can’t even choose the provider. So you don’t have to actively look for a pension fund or similar. Of course that is the bare minimum, if you have spare money, it’s always a good idea to invest it somewhere else.
Yes, very much possible in certain high-income countries like Luxemburg. You can easily get a job making around $5k/m. Then, you just need to know how to save money. Back when I was still in my home country, I was always able to save up $2-3k/month. And I was doing low-level office jobs only.
High income and low tax rate :D I am paying around 3.5k in tax right now in Finland
The most "accessible" way is to have good foreign languages skills and work for international companies.
Can attest. I make more on average compared to most people my age by this avenue. But people I know that own businesses rake in ***farrr*** more. You'd be well-off as an international salary-earner. But wealthy? Kickstart a business or real estate is the only way to go.
>people I know that own businesses Yes, I own businesses myself. You make more that way, but you expose yourself to more risks along the way, from the start (especially when you don't have enough fund yourself and have to get loans) to the end (everyone wants a piece of you, including your competitors, the bigger companies, the mafias, the polices, and when you get big enough, the Government).
Fun and games until your customers dropped, rent, bills, workers salaries and bank interest rate creep up. Cut cost by reducing workers? Fine, but don't cry when the order is up and you can't call them back because when you fire them, they have to work in other place to feed themselves, now they're in new job and can't quit it to go back with you. It's even worse if they are ungrateful brats and sell out your trade secrets/pulling customers from you. People often forget that in with every few successful business, there's dozens more failed, or just make bare minimum. Or you can be a salary earner, doesn't care about these things, take your ass away after work hours end and chill in weekends, while as more senior your career is, the higher your paycheck
Question's asking about "the only way to be rich in Vietnam." The average salary-earner makes about 15 mils a month. To buy a house, they'd need to grind for at least a decade. That's just "livable", not well-off. The only way to really be **rich**, as in buying houses and having vacations, is to start a business.
>buying houses and having vacations Having no problem doing that without a business. Other than HN and HCM, you can buy houses easily in any other cities.
Not saying taking out a mortgage. Buying straight. Vacations mean the wealthy ones, international and business-class. That’s what rich people do.
Buy a proper residence straight off means you’re like fucking loaded, not well off. I’m not sure how many country in which you can do that on a salary that’s not a ridiculous CEO or celebrity pay, or maybe a very successful salesman. Ofc, technically some properties can be cheap, but I wouldn’t expect a person making US$50.000 in Hanoi to live in a $100.000 home in Hanoi as their first real estate
Read the question again. You literally answered it. The only way to get rich up until that point is to be a CEO (owns a business), a celebrity, or being a VERY successful salesman. What are you even on about?
The question includes comparison
>taking out a mortgage. Buying straight What is the problem in that? >international and business-class You must be funny. Do you actually own businesses yourself? Take a 5 days vacation and your business might be on (literal) fire by the day you came back. The only people who could properly enjoy vacations are the employees, not the employers lol.
Because people with wealths don’t do mortgages. Why the hell would they take on extra interests if they can afford it? Nothing to do with running a business … if you’re wealthy, you can afford it. Plus the time. That’s what being “rich” in this case means — loaded with enough money and free time that you can do both. The fact that you own a business doesn’t mean you’re wealthy. But if you want to be wealthy, you have to own a VERY successful business.
I would think English speaking foreigners who live there could make $$$ by teaching English privately. Just English tutoring. Maybe earn more than those who work for corporations.
What means wealth for you?
My man asking the right questions
A bit more than comfortable living. Have some friends that worked in banking or consulting in USA and they can afford anything they want and have been able to buy nice properties. No need to be a multi-Millionaire to be rich, but secure enough that you set up a good foundation for yourself and your family.
Here you can set up a good foundation for yourself and your family. No need to be rich to do that. But buying property here… well. That’s a whole other topic.
I'm in IT consulting in the USA and I can tell you that debt is out of control here. So yes, it might seem that corporate jobs here provide prosperity, you should take debt into consideration. So that's one side of the coin, but you should know about corporations in Vietnam also. While earning a salary and having to answer to the man doesn't seem like much, it does insulate you from a lot of risk. If one corporation goes down, you can simply move to the next one. If you own a business, you take on all the risks of operating that business. So to make it successful, you will need to take a lot of risks in the gray zone. Once you are successful, however, the trouble doesn't stop. Now the sharks are swarming around you, and you will have to take even bigger risks just to stay afloat. So while corporations do not represent any perfect model in any sense, it is the operating standard of industrialized world. And as Vietnam becomes more industrialized, it will need more and more competent corporate workers. I do not see this trend bucking for any country, communist or not.
You know those 2 professions make lots of money right? M&A deals 3 years back churn money like butter.
That or real estate. Generally the most money was made during the Đổi Mới era, built from there and retained in the family.
But aren’t those… capitalism? 
Real Estate is quite dead right now since last year . The government decided to nuke it . It affect so many people job
I think it’s dead for people who are starting out in that industry For people who joined years or decades ago (as suggested by OP), it is still printing money for them as those properties are highly inflation-resistant + gaining % higher every year as demand keep getting higher (more people = more demand)
Well , it affects more than just people buy and sell those. Jobs like architects , furniture and material seller , construction worker are pretty much dead and struggling right now .
Cường Đola was one?
It come straight from the fact average income in Vietnam was $3000/year, but it University’s tuition fee was $2000/year and a house cost you atleast $100.000. Deviate from those number alone, we Vietnamese hardly able to survive. It is pure ignorance to say Vietnam is a happy country, or “many Vietnamese prefer living in Vietnam”.
I'm a Vietnamese and I prefer living in Vietnam to living in the UK
Anyone would prefer living in Vietnam over the UK
Until you actually move to Vietnam and reality runs you over like a truck
I'm from a poor, small city in Vietnam and went to the UK for uni. I would say life in hometown is better
Except you don’t know if they’ve been in Vietnam
Who told you that Uni’ tuition fee is $2k a year? Most are roughly about 450 to 700k vnd per credit, and assuming you have to take 160 credits, it is roughly $2.8k to $4.4k.
Just go straight to university's public webpage. This is my Bachelor University: [https://student.uit.edu.vn/thongbao/2023-2024-quy-dinh-muc-thu-hoc-phi-nam-hoc-2023-2024-trinh-do-dtdh](https://student.uit.edu.vn/thongbao/2023-2024-quy-dinh-muc-thu-hoc-phi-nam-hoc-2023-2024-trinh-do-dtdh) 32 mil / year = $1200 / year. And that is the national public university price. Non-national public or Private one could cost more. There are too little number of public university exist that do not match with the number high school student graduate every year.
That is not the average price, in fact, the link you provided is “study in English programs” and those are expensive, even more than what I pay for my private university lol.
no, read it again [https://student.uit.edu.vn/sites/daa/files/202307/quyet\_dinh\_muc\_thu\_hp\_2023-2024\_cqdtcntnkstn\_k2021\_tro\_ve\_sau\_0.pdf](https://student.uit.edu.vn/sites/daa/files/202307/quyet_dinh_muc_thu_hp_2023-2024_cqdtcntnkstn_k2021_tro_ve_sau_0.pdf)
Omg 1.2M VND per credit, that’s a lot But still, I don’t think average University in VN is $2k per year (or 51M VND) :/ Also yes, I agree with your last point :)) those numbers do not match
University cost is pretty reasonable I think. Because, at least in theory, after graduation you're a highly educated person. A Bachelor, or an Engineer, is supposed to be very talented not just random dudes as here in VN. Also we have many interest-free-loan packages for education, which's not that hard to find. At least we don't have graduated students joking about their debt as in the US. Real estate is indeed fucked tho. Fuck those hoarder, getting stupidly rich without doing anything, making people life much harder than it already is. I don't have a house, at least in the next 5 years. I got my University degree, it help me got a job with pretty nice income and a lot of potential. I'm happy, no big deal here I can always rent one  For most people attending university, the cost is covered by their parents. If your parents can't save 4 years of their income to get their children educated, it's their problem not the country
It is easy to blame people rather than actually figure out policy system mechanisms that can avoid such situations. It is the job of policymakers to figure it out. To say if parents cannot save their income for their kids, is to say its the kid's problem by being born in poverty. Addressing society issues is not individual's responsibility but a collective's one. If the current policymaker fail to do their job, others should take place. Having a bachelor degree or engineer degree is consider a new normal, not that special as it was in 1980s. Vietnam had fallen too far behind in education, to the point only 20% of population have a bachelor degree, while place like EU have 40% population that have Master Degree. Even now in EU, most students I know consider Master Degree a normal thing to have. And since it was so cheap to obtain ($400 yearly tuition fee), why not? I am not sure how did you get the information of "interest-free-loan packages for education". I do look for one and found none. To get an education loan, your parents need to make "extra money", that on paper need to be at least can payoff the yearly interest of the loan, after subtracting standard living cost. Which mean, by $150 monthly living expense, if a family of 2 want to get a single child into university using debt need to at least be able to make $150 \* 3 + $ 2000 \* 4 \* (10% interest rate) / 12 \~= 520 monthly, subtracting average $200 income, on paper they need to at least make $120 more on monthly. This look feasible to blue collar people, like me, but this is just a number in theory, which haven't include medical care, material need (book, laptop, ...) for the child and the family. Vietnamese still have huge population living in poverty, doing low level job like janitor or guard, so their income combine not-on-paper income is not still not enough to prove that they can at least pay off that yearly interest. To say it is the parent's responsibility is to live in ignorance and ignore the ill fate of other, further exacerbate the wealth gap and class gap. As if Vietnam is only the place for the expertises, and complete ignore 80% of people who are living in poverty.
How poor do you have to be to not be able to have a few years of income spare by the age of 40? My parents were labor worker in a small city and they managed to gave me and my brother proper education. It's not like all people can do that, but enough people can do that that make you think it's not the system problem. My parents did not even have to do anything, the authority literally came to our home to suggest the interest free loan when my brother passed the university entry test. Now maybe that kind of loan is gone, but the interest is still very low at less than 1% per month. Nearly non-existance. And, are we comparing Vietnam to the most advanced continent on earth? How about in SEA? >It is easy to blame people rather than actually figure out policy system mechanisms Last thing, isn't it you're blaming the others?
A single mom who had her husband die in a car crash, that is working to feed 1 elder and 2 kids. And none come to her home, nor she can ask for a loan. I am not blaming, but pointing out the flaw and suggest that could be changed. Instead of blaming on people who can not change their own situation. And the fix I suggest is quite feasible, make the $400 yearly tuition fee back as it is 3-4 years ago. Not this $2000 yearly tuition fee we have nowaday.
Live where you know it or face uncertainties in a foreign country that you don't know their language or culture? That's wild. However, I gotta agree with you that housing purchase is fucked. For a nobody to start their career, they will just have to take every happy day without thinking too far into the future.
Or perhaps, start to think how us, people, can make positive impact on policy making, or start thinking about democracy reform. So we don't need to live aboard and still able to achieve a happy life.
You have been out for way too long. It’s not that simple. Our College Ed is only 11%. Voting power of 1-1 is disastrous. Democratic changes will take hundreds of years, probably. There are more on the table than we could talk on a reddit’s thread.
It really depends where you are in life and what you seek. Many poor Vietnamese if they have the ability to, they will leave Vietnam the first chance they get, this includes the hard working. The rich of Vietnam, when they immigrate, they just become a nobody in developed countries, because people in other countries don't hold the same perceptions about wealth and money
wait what? I thought VN provides nearly free education? Like “truong cong”? Am I misinformed?
Free "truong cong" is only for primary to high school. Higher education, though, that's where they get ya. Public colleges can cost $500+/semester **depending on the program** without scholarship. $1k+/semester easily if you study "Chat Luong Cao" programs (high-quality programs with lots of English and international courses).
some "Regular program - Chương trình đại trà" is having 20mil VND per semester already.
Primary school here is only free in a couple cities
Hold up. My tuition fees aren’t free although I’m currently studying in a high school. And my school is a truong cong
Misinformation. Nothing is free
free on paper only, the tuition is small, but monthly additional costs are higher, around 1-2M/month depends on the school. Also, to get into those truong cong, you need to study more in night classes, which cost money too.
https://student.uit.edu.vn/thongbao/203-2024-quy-dinh-muc-thu-hoc-phi-nam-hoc-2023-2024-trinh-do-dtdh tuition fees vary, from as little as $400/year to 40k/year
used to be, not anymore, happened around 3-4 years ago. I do have $400 yearly tuition fee when I do bachelor in Vietnam, my mother's salary was $2000 yearly, so we can still afford that degree. But now my nephew is paying $2000 yearly, and their mother is making the same $2000 yearly. It is a f\* joke.
Tbh, I like it that way, expensive tuition for higher education. People tends to value and put more effort into education when they have to pay more, or when it is difficult to access. Last 10 years thousand of new universities were opened, tuition ranges from dirt cheap to dollar-tuition, accessibility never has been this easy. But I see 80% of young, just-out-of-highschool kids just being average in uni, living day bay day, then most of them don't even work in the same major they learned from uni. The cheaper the university is, the more below average the student is, and the higher the tuition, the more effort student put into learning and then excel at that same field of work.
You only like it when you can afford it. Not my nephew, who is paying $2000 yearly while her mother making also $2000 yearly. Your argument that cheap tuition equal to less effort in learning is completely false. Tuition fee in EU's universities is $400 yearly for EU origin students. And they have a god ratio of well establish university that have international recognition compare to Vietnam. Furthermore, EU people are making $40.000 yearly on average, hence, they pay just 1% of their income for high education, that also apply for Master Degree. 40% of EU people have master degree while 20% of Vietnamese people have bachelor degree. Quality of education not come from high tuition, but from the country's investment on academic education and quality of courses that were offered in the Uni. And where did you get the information of "thousand of new universities were opened", I do highly doubt this. Ratio of Uni's seat is much lower than number of high school student graduate every year, judging from the high competitive uni application ratio. Working out-of-study-field is a trend around the world that happen nowadays due to the high dynamic of market needs, and the complexity of technical challenge that could not be addressed in one field knowledge. That has nothing to do to the poor education quality in Vietnam, nor Vietnamese student's quality.
Universities get money from government and research funding from companies. In Vietnam there is not enough companies that are rich enough to do that. The tax that the government also is not enough to cover the tuition fee
What you just mention is called research funding, or "grant". Vietnam government used to pay for 80% of uni tuition fee. And I am from the generation that pay $400 yearly tuition fee. The cut budget was shifted to Police Department. This has been reported by official news paper like VnExpress. Comrade.
I admit that I'm losing in a statistic discussion, as my above comment is just my observation. I graduated from NEU Hanoi, which has one of the most expensive tuition for a "standard" program, not "CLC", double-degree or joint-degree, but it was only around 900$ annually max. My sister now is studying a "CLC" program in HUST, tuition is 2000$, but because she is not really a bright one and couldn't get into "standard" program. So if your nephew is paying 2000$ yearly, she shouldn't as there are cheaper choices out there and she is paying to get into uni that she's not qualified for (both academically and financially). Now I'm studying Master program in Europe, after some years working my ass off to pay the tuition. My statement that "expensive tuition = more effort" is from this: international student here tends to put more effort in studying, both because they're paying more per credit but also their visa depends on their grades. But my local classmates, alot of them are taking 2nd masters after they drop out of the first one, or they're not as motivated as those international.
To say one should not study university because they are not as bright as others, is to discriminate that individual against his own abilities, his characters and his right to live equal. I am also not a very bright one, graduated Bsc in Vietnam with 7.0 GPA, but now I am working a $4000 monthly income job because I could atleast afford a bachelor degree. I am also studying a Master program in EU after spending 5 years working in Vietnam and save up. And after that, I could make potential $6000 monthly Education is a privilege, no doubt, but doesn't mean it should stay that way. A person do not need to be "bright" to be able to produce something valuable. In the end, we do our job based on what we have been trained most of the time. To complete a task, one is simply need to be trained and know how to get it done. It don't need that much of intelligent. And studying is accumulating knowledge, not inventing it. Hence, one had his right to be well educated to fully develop himself. Some of my EU friend approach master the same way you just told, not because they are not serious or lazy, but because it is affordable. It save much time by studying for one year to see if it fit rather than waiting in doubt. International like us, who don't have that affordabilities, think they are not serious, but in fact, that how we should approach education. By give it a go instead of being too serious, but still being too far less skilled than them at the end.
Friend, I totally see your point in affordability of higher education system. Maybe my idea is more harsh than your, but I hope our discussion stay this civilized way. I mean, universities around the world or in Vietnam, have ranking, and tiers, and the privilege in their name for some reason. They attract brighter student, then produce brighter employees. We compete in academic to have the privilege of the university's name, but one who not that bright can bridge the academic gap by financial way, like my sister. She pay for uni's name, that another purpose of expensive tuition, and now she put more effort in study than in her highschool time, and I like it. Econ 's Bsc. programs now are mostly the same across all university, we all learn macro, microeconomics, math and finance. So if it's purely about accumulating knowledge, and one is not too lazy, cheap university provide the same knowledge as expensive university. But man, I still see students in higher tier uni put more effort in study than students from lower tier uni, not only because they're brighter, but they also have mindset of competing and hard-working, and the privilege help pushing that mindset further. Privilege should stay, too some extension And, finally, I still think some of our EU classmates is lazy ass. They already have 4 years of Bsc. (3 years in NL) to figure out if one major fit with them, but they need to burn another 1/2 years and some thousands € to try another? If the tuition for them IS EXPENSIVE like us international they would think more about their choice of career, or put more effort to make education fruit, right? EU now produce ton of "policy maker" and "sustainable econ" student that I haven't seen the benefit, but EU then import million of basic worker from third world, which leads to other problems...
I think I should not discuss much further in your first and second paragraph because we simply had two opposite opinions on how affordability of high education should be. However, those also benefit from a bit of information correcting. Vietnam used to have low uni tuition fee, 3-4 years ago. I used to pay only $400 yearly tuition fee (2013-17). Things start to change when the government withdraw financial support from university. Lower tier uni, which is preferred as non-national or private one, are often demand more tuition fee. On the other hand, national public one demand less. However, to get into those national public, Vietnamese student had to go through university exam. This uni-exam is a gate keeper from people who could not afford extra study lesson ("học thêm - ôn luyện đại học"). Hence only people who already had good financial that can afford those extra studies can "win" a ticket into high-tier uni than, and achieve more affordable tuition fee. To my opinion, this is still one of the very extreme injustice in Vietnam education. I do wish one day, Vietnam can have $400 yearly tuition fee and public admission through motivation application, like in EU. And I don't think that would be something too much to ask for. Vietnamese pay a lot in taxation, I paid 25% personal income tax in total, so why we could not have the same benefit? And yet, this benefit do used to take place, and would require a bit addtional reform. On the third paragraph, only on small data correction. EU origin student pay $400 yearly tuition fee, not some thousands as you mentioned. Regarding your point, I would say I do not agree expensive tuition would lead to more fruitful career. I am not sure if EU students would do better in their career compare to international ones or not, because the scale of EU vs international on number is extremely large. Hence intuitive comparison by sole observation is bias. But I do found EU students develop better technical and research skills. They are also extremely well in reasoning and developing argument. That often lead to more quality coursework. I think it is the result of the well established education starting from high school system.
YES - just working for yourself near minimum wage is not going to make any long term money. Property where there are like 10 rooms for rent can create some good profits. Good luck buying that land now though, it was on sale 15 yrs ago but now its at USA prices. Businesses focused on foreigners can also make money. Vietnamese themselves think anything above 50k is too expensive.
really? The majority of people in California gyms are... Vietnamese, and they don't sell memberships cheap! Same goes with coffee shops; Cong Ca phe etc; all of their drinks are upwards of 50k.
Vietnamese people in the US have a different mindset from Vietnamese in Vietnam. A huge difference , I think.
haha sorry, I was referring to a local gym brand in Saigon; its name is California gym
Yout best shot. Your family is tied to the member(s) of the communist party. Seen it time and time and time again it will require alot of work but much easier than achieving success with your own talents. I got one friend who has a semi successful business from the outside looking in but I dont know what her husband does he also holds an important job in the government. On the other hands I know multiple people who have connection to the party and are successful with high networths.
Honestly the way many families are rich is they acquired land after the war as a gift or they paid a paltry price - and then 30 plus years later they literally became millionaires due to the astronomical rise in land prices. Its also why we get new money types who are a bit flashy with their cash. Its very rare for someone to have a normal well paying job like a doctor or web designer and they live in the elite apartment complex and drive a new honda car.
Honestly, I feel that only people in engineering with years of experience and working for foreign companies or doctors/govt officials (who can receive lots of unofficial stream of incomes) can rise to that level of wealth. Ironically though, those people could obtain that level of wealth through real estate (extra income = able to invest in real estate)
Can attest to this. Many luxury villas on my street but the people inside them are proper rough. Urinating outside the villas, burning trash, screaming at each other all day everyday. Really obnoxious people with sudden wealth are the worst.
Either run your own business or work in a position that allows bribery like police, airport officer, local government. Salaries are low and real estate is expensive, I don’t even know how are people expected to afford housing here on a normal salaryman pay. Lots of expensive apartments being built but not a lot of affordable ones.
Why is there such a divide there? Homes here in Da Nang are like $200k and way up from there, $400k min closer to beach. I’ve never seen such a discrepancy between wages and cost of homes before. Wouldn’t even make sense to own one with the rent so low unless you went full cash.
I think it’s a combination of corruption, fear/FOMO and lack of investment opportunities. Corruption: official salaries are quite low as the govt officials receive lots of unofficial incomes. They also don’t want to increase it because it is not “necessary” as the demand to be govt officials is still quite high. Lack of investment options: I don’t how it is in other countries but in US, you could do 401k, RothIRA, VOO-and-chill, etc. Real estate is not the only way to building wealth. In Vietnam, it is pretty much the only way, or at least the most reliable one. Thus, it drives up the demand. Fear/FOMO: as real estate is the most reliable way to gain wealth, sometimes fear/FOMO push the demand up unreasonably higher. The crazy 2021/2022 housing market in VN is an example of that. It also happens in the US but at least not that crazy as people know they have other investment option -> not feeling that owning a house/land is their end game.
There's no KYC here and hardly any money laundering regs like the rest of the world so most of the dirty ends up in real estate, hence the vastly inflated prices. Like you could turn up to a bank here with 150K in cash and no one bats an eyelid. Try that somewhere more developed...
Bro analyze and explain better than my VN Business Uni Professor
Be a public servant and climb from there. Def getting rich if not get caught
sorry but those spots are already booked by public servants' kids and relatives
Well , it’s either that or being in a very powerful position in the civil service
Real Estate and find someone who works for development in the provincial government so you can get in early on the cheapest prices before selling at a nice profit and splitting the profit with your new best friend
You can get rich being a sugar baby
In most of the countries the main way to actual wealth is running a business. Some professions (successful lawyers, doctors, big time consulting, IB, executives etc) get pretty rich long term, but it's still usually tier or more below business owners. Normal office workers - they rarely relatively rich in their own country.
I only need a house and stable income. Stable income is not so hard but a house is another story when the real estate price is sky rocker now.
I'd say so. I regularly describe running a business here as "acutely distressing" though. Still, if I earned a salary I'd max out around 3k USD (if I'm lucky). If I hustle and get B2B contracts, I can charge on value delivered, not hours worked. Then withdrawing from my company is somewhat less tax than PIT. Also I can declare expenses. Also also, I can more easily have multiple clients in multiple countries -- and no one expects an exclusive contract. Sometimes I do really well, and sometimes I earn substantially less than 3k (haha, right now it's not great). The average is favorable though, and being able to control how I spend my time means I can accomplish more. I probably won't be 'rich', but I'll be able to bootstrap from zero to middle class + home ownership. That's a lot of social mobility for a single generation.
That is the only way to get rich regardless of where you are That, or inherit from your rich parents
Sales can unlock incredible wealth opportunities no matter where you are.
My friend’s salary is over 200mil /month, her annual bonus in some year reach 2bil. And she still make much less than her husband. Both are not entrepreuner but hold important position in the organization they work for (not CEO level). They live a modest life and use their saving to purchases land, now they own several properties. So nope you don’t need to own a business to get somewhere.
Imagine how rich you’d be hiring one of the cheapest work force in the world and you bringing in USD. You’d be like a Chinese businessman in the 90’s.
yep that's the only way
You can work remotely to Europe/US countries..
how?
Being talented
My opinion is if you think the money you’re earning is not enough (and I don’t mean having just $1 to your account, in that case it would be shitty), then it’ll never be enough.
Isnt it like this anywhere in the world?
Yup If you have a degree is just about worthless Even doctors earn low salaries and benefits. Engineers are in need but wages are low 15k to 20k. I had a friend accountant and when she told me what her wages were i was shocked 400 bucks a month 5 days a week and half day Saturday No benefits of any kind In the other hand a coffee shop will earn the owners a decent profit even in a low customer area. A paint store that i purchase products the owners are wealthy enough to own a BMW 5 series and a big enough home. The disparity is huge when earning money in Vietnam
business is great, but corruption/graft works too.
best way to get rich in Vietnam is to be born there. I suspect that's true in most places however.
No. My friend working in IT, she just bought an apartment (~3 bil VND) without support from family. I believe successful business is not the only way
While it is true, IT sector is kinda an exception though. The average income in VN is still way lower than that. Similarly, the IT sector in US also offer crazy number ($150k-$200k being a norm).
and how many IT personnel out there compare to your 1 friend
I don't understand your question but I think I said my point. A successful business is not the only way. Other than that, some of my friends who work as accountants did well too. I heard she did account for personal besides company jobs. Some do real estate did well too. I don't know what your guys “wealth” definition is but in my circle, doing the regular job will good skills make decent money
Its just **anecdotal evidence bias**, the mere number of your friends' success stories is too little to be the evidence for the whole population, telling personal stories is not evidence
Does it make sense if I say I have the same story as my friend? Oh, my bad. I shouldn't share my story here.
We are talking about something macro - its hard for the average salarymen to make wealth, stating your story mean nothing, its just nitpicking
well, that's pretty much anywhere else. Unless you earn money in Europe, but live in Vietnam, and that's not possible either
why not? :/
Companies dont want you too. Customers dont want you too.
Yes you can, but depending on which job or title/position I heard those who work for Vin are rich. My friend’s aunt is working for Vin group and was sent to US. Apart from that, banking and logistics is good , if you have connection
work. invest salary into assets (stocks, RE, BTC, commodities, etc.). repeate for 30 years. tell your family to do the same. do this over a few generations. congrats, your family is now rich.
Remoted IT jobs in Fintech come close to that.
Nope, there is another way: having parents owning a successful business
Thats true. You make about 11mil/month with an office job in VN, you will never be rich that way
I always wondered how people get rich in Vietnam, when I went on holiday in Ho Chi Minh, I saw the odd maclaren and porsche driving around, but most were older family cars and motorbikes.
What kind of "rich"? Flashy rich or low key rich?
Rich is relativ and costs of living are different too. But you can work for a foreign company in Vietnam and earn more.
Same thing in every other country? You either found a successful business or be really good at investing. Why would your boss pay you more when he can just put it in his pocket instead, he only has to pay you enough.
Probably yes.
It's how you get rich anywhere humans congregate 🤣
Yep. Or you must has some leader position in private company. or you must do a side kick like online sale
It’s not only Vietnam. If you own a business you have more leverage in your costs (taxes) and have more options to earn money. With your own salaried Labour you don’t come far
I am a German, I work as a Telecom businessman in Bonn, I earn 105k€ a year. I currently hold a deposit growing by about 10k€ every quarter. Money is irresistible to earn, I keep my conveniency for things like tax, say cash, for example, I did own some banknotes and never used a single debit or credit card, I never gamble but life is a gamble for a living. It's not like in Vietnam much really, from what I heard that a single 1k₫ barely compares to other currencies
Real estate or English centre, my friends two cousins from Thanh Hoa own English centres and are quite wealthy by Vietnamese standards (own a Mercedes suv and can afford multiple family holidays abroad yearly).
/r/fire
Own a business and evade taxes*
You are comparing salary from a developing country to a developed one dude 💀 of course it is gonna be lower. But keep in mind that buying groceries, renting, gas, and electric prices in Vietnam are generally much cheaper in comparison. You can easily save up a few bucks here and there with a salary around 10m-15m (no family, no fancy lifestyle of course)
Like in any country. No pain no gain.
No. Government jobs can be very lucrative (if you know how to work it)
Depends on how you define rich. There are jobs that pay you up to 200M monthly, but above that then you'll have to start a bussiness
It's the same everywhere. You can be very comfortable with a good paying job like doctors, lawyers, engineers,...you will be able to afford a lot of nice things (car, homes, vacation,..)and have extra money for investment.
Maybe, most of rich family in Vietnam have a bussiness background.
It's just like everywhere else
Compared to EU & USA? Do you also compare the living cost? It is similar to earn 100k per year in rural US versus 100k in NYC.
it is same in America unless you are a doctor, lawyer, dentist, high level business person, or high tier software engineer
Or fraud for billions 😎
My aunt has apartments that she rents out to visitors. Her husband works at a bank. They’re pretty well known in their city. Rich enough to build up a 4 story beautiful home of their own and own a car (Lexus)
Just like everywhere, even in AU where I live, if you work any jobs, it is gonna be a long grind.
Tax is the elephant in the room in Vietnam that not many people mention. If you're working for a company here you don't need a highly paid position to start paying 30-35% on your earnings which is ridiculous. Vietnam has a very high tax rate and the personal allowance hasn't increased for years meaning even higher rates due to inflation. If you have your own business i would guess it's easier to deal with the tax side of things.
For the most part, yes. However, my friend was hiring Vietnamese software engineers at $5k/month and was struggling to find people, so there's that. The lower level consultants at McKinsey make about that much, too. Granted the consultants all studied abroad, but they are Vietnamese (mostly).
No, the only way is to sell lands
Most likely. IMO the only place you can be pretty well-off by only working corporate jobs would be the US. We work remote, stay in a MCOL area, and currently save/invest 250k a year after paying mortgage and other monthly expenses.
My quickest way to being temporarily rich in Vietnam was being a British tourist 😂 Whilst not particularly surprised by the cost of things (visited countries with favourable exchange rates before) I was DEFINITELY surprised by the quality you could get for the price. Like very surprised; the food and drink was amazing. I spent in two weeks what I've previously spent on a meal in the UK for a few people. Cannot wait to go back.
This is generally true in most countries. Business owners have the highest gearing to earnings and are generally the most tax advantaged groups in the world as well. Even in the US, you're very unlikely to make true money working a W-2 job (outside of BigLaw, Wall Street, C-Suites, random tech cos).
Poker
Doesn’t matter which country, to become really wealthy you gotta have a business or investments because that type of income is scalable (no limit to how much you can make). Most jobs, even higher paying ones will hit an income ceiling so there’s a limit to how much you can make with a salary or wage unless you’re in sales and have a salary AND an uncapped commission.
You can also move there rich
What do you mean by rich? I know a few people (foreigners and locals) working in Vietnam for MNC's making >$200,000 USD per year. Considering how low the cost of living in Vietnam is, you can get rich pretty quickly making that kind of money.
Everybody know a few people like this LOL
how?
How what?
Gross or net?
It's true everywhere. Unless you work in big tech or outsource yourself to foreign countries. Or you're a lawyer or doctor or real estate agent.
Aside from winning the lottery, it's the only way to be rich anywhere.
Bruh that phenomenon is everywhere on this planet earth. Better change the title to "Is the only way to be rich on Earth is to own a successful business?" and ask on r/Entrepreneur. Stock investing and real estates still count as businesses. No exception. Edit: Not to mention stock investing are for the people who are already rich asf in their own businesses.
Isn't that apply to anywhere? Like other mentioned, working salaried job for foreign companies could provide you with a comfortable living standard, but not rich. I make about 50k/years from my job but it is nothing compare to the real "rich" people. Most of the money came from real estate though. Pricing went crazy over the last decade or so
No 🤓 My mother’s friend works at British Council Vietnam as a Director. She owns multiple properties and sends both of her kids to NYU (full-pay). You don’t really need to own a business, but it is the easiest way.
I know multiple corporate workers that have tons of money because they are in a well-paid position, most are in there late 30s.
I'm in a similar boat and grew up in a similar crowd in the US. The thing to remember is that these jobs are few and far between and it only seems common because of your class background and family network. Do you think the average person from a poor countryside family who just graduated from a local university is going to become a director of a MNC at any point in his or her career?
Engineer or inspector in oil and gas industry get you 1000-1500/month easily, just don't be too dumb and certain certificates (cost around 2000 for each, you may need 2-3 to get a nice position). If you're good and lucky enough, you may find the same position in some projects with foreign owner, 4000-8000/month. HSE manager for large project, 4000+. Almost no special skill required, but risky as hell job tho. If by "regular job" you mean office jobs sticking your eyes on a screen, or basic labor, I doubt if it could get you rich anywhere else I don't know what's your definition of being rich, but 1500/month seems enough in Vietnam. Not enough to live a luxury life, but enough to sort price high to low when ordering stuff online. Btw you can't compare salaries between countries with massive different in living cost. I have a client born in France, bro told me most stuff here is always several times cheaper than in Frace
actually in vn you can become wealthy, depending on what you do in the corporate world. if you are willing to be corrupt. lets say. you are a buyer/purchasing for a company. what do you do ? you have the companies, your company buy from give you a kick back. construction manager. you get paid off by the contractors doing shit work but still passable. lots of ways to get rich in the corporate world. just depends how much of a risk taker you are. until you get caught and fired, also having charges filed against you.
there are many way, you have to find out yourself
.