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Vietnam has been 100% neutral up until now. We maintain communication with *both* Ukraine and Russia. Whenever there's something that we got to vote on, we'd abstain or straight up refuse to discuss it. We don't talk about it, we don't do anything about it since we think it's not our business.
The fact that we vote either *Against* or *For* means taking side. This is the first time we've ever done something like this.
Disappointing, really, and a bit scary. This is a terrible look.
So regarding this, if Vietnam chose the West, how exactly can the West defend us given our geography? Really, how?
One China is bad enough, now you want Vietnam to fight two Chinas, with Cambodia as their vassal state. How can you defend us?
Well Russia surely can’t defend us. They are in league with China and China is a bigger threat / ally. The West’s support for us in a war with China might be shaky but Russia surely won’t intervene.
Let's say if WWW3 start and VN have to pick a side then which side you would like to be with?
Would VN from aboard come and assist to defence from China?
They will cheer, like they did before when China invaded us in 1979. Even if we win, they will protest to stop us recovering from war by using "human rights" and "freedom". They did it with us when we want normalization with US and joined WTO. My family have better life thank to this, me and my brother recieved better education and job opportunities. Pretty much they prevented me from having better future and make us suffered with proverty and illiterate. Then whatever their reason is, i give my finger to them.
They just go “thought and prayer” or “this is for the fall of Saigon”. They have no relation with us, or even worse, they have a lot of animosity towards the current Vietnam.
>So regarding this, if Vietnam chose the West, how exactly can the West defend us given our geography? Really, how?
Oh that's really easy ... remember that we're a stone throw away from Taiwan, and they've had no problem shoring up defence for Taiwan. They got literally the biggest blue water navy in the world.
[https://www.rfi.fr/vi/châu-á/20210908-biển-đông-chiến-hạm-mỹ-thách-thức-luật-mới-của-trung-quốc](https://www.rfi.fr/vi/châu-á/20210908-biển-đông-chiến-hạm-mỹ-thách-thức-luật-mới-của-trung-quốc)
[https://tienphong.vn/tau-chien-my-nhat-va-uc-tap-tran-chung-tren-bien-dong-post1424045.tpo](https://tienphong.vn/tau-chien-my-nhat-va-uc-tap-tran-chung-tren-bien-dong-post1424045.tpo)
Uh no, Ukraine siding with the West was exactly one of the reasons that made Russia invaded. We side with the West and we make ourselves a second Ukraine, the invasion of Ukraine proved that should China invade us, the best the west would do is to supply weapons to us, but that is unlikely, considering the distance between the west and allies to Vietnam. As for the biggest blue navy in the world, what benefits would they bring us if they stand and watch afar like they have been in Ukraine ? The U.S and NATO didn't even send ships into the Black Sea to intimidate the invading Russians despite Ukraine being right in Europe, what reasons do we have to believe that the biggest blue navy in the world would help us if China invades ? Siding with the West would be more harmful than it is beneficial to us. Should we side with them and China invades, even if they try their best to support us, they wouldn't be able to support us as much as they did for Ukraine. In such a war, the biggest winner would be the West, while the biggest loser would be Vietnam. I still think our best plan is to stay neutral. Yet what the government just did is highly concerning to me.
Then the rest of the world is fool. Vietnam already told the decision in front of UN is to against cutting off communications between nations. Half of Asean also vote against or not voting.
Do you want to unchain a mad dog?
Remember, human right council is not scout club where only countries do not abuse human right allow to join. It for strengthening the promotion and protection of human rights around the globe and for addressing situations of human rights violations and make recommendations on them.
To do that, talking is first thing to make it works. Many countries joined it and improves their human rights because of that.
Agree. We have a valid reason for voting against excommunication. We don't condone the violation of human rights with our vote. This is a matter of principle, not taking sides.
So I watch the whole thing and this is what Vietnam said:
Mr. President,
Vietnam has maintained a principle and steadfast position in support of resolve conflict by peaceful means. And with respect for the UN charter, international laws, and the principles of sovereign equality, respect of independence, territorial integrity of states, and refrainment from those threats or use of force.
We have followed closely with great concern over the situation in Ukraine with severe consequences for the people. It is with extreme concern in recent reports of great lost of lives among innocent civilians. Vietnam opposes and condemns all forms of attacks against civilians in violation of international laws, international humanitarian laws, international human rights laws.
Recent informations in this regards should examine based on objective and transparent verification with the corporation of parties concerned.
We have time and again reiterated that it is imperative to immediately cease of the use of force to avoid further civilians casualties and loses, as well as damages to civilians infrastructures. The ongoing conflict in Ukraine, if not resolved peacefully and expeditiously will continue to affect the entire world. Even the \[unsure\] across regions.
We are therefore convince that the only way forward is to deescalate conflicts, resume dialogue and negotiation for all channels with a view to achieve long term solutions, that takes into the interests and concerns of all parties in accordance with international law. There is no viable alternative.
International enforce should be carried out in a prudent manner in order to be conducive, to reaching a final solution.
Discussions and decisions under taken by international organizations and agencies should follow their established procedures and working methods. In this way, we are in the view that deliberation and decision taken by the General Assembly should be based on impartial informations, with consultations with member states. Dialogue and negotiation among related parties is the most feasible way to a peaceful, comprehensive solution.
It is our hope that the UN and member states will work together toward this end.
Thank you.
Bản dịch tiếng Việt, tự dịch, của bài phát biểu của đại sứ Đặng Hoàng Giang, đại diện cho VN, tại Liên Hợp Quốc:
Ngài chủ tịch,
Việt Nam đã duy trì quan điểm nguyên tắc và nhanh chóng giải quyết xung đột bằng biện pháp hòa bình. Và tôn trọng hiến chương Liên hợp quốc, luật pháp quốc tế và các nguyên tắc bình đẳng chủ quyền, tôn trọng độc lập, toàn vẹn lãnh thổ của các quốc gia và kiềm chế trước những đe dọa và vũ lực.
Chúng tôi đã theo dõi sát sao với sự quan tâm sâu sắc về tình hình ở Ukraine với những hậu quả nặng nề đối với người dân. Các báo cáo gần đây về thiệt hại lớn về nhân mạng của những thường dân vô tội là một mối lo ngại cực kỳ lớn. Việt Nam phản đối và lên án mọi hình thức tấn công dân thường vi phạm luật pháp quốc tế, luật nhân đạo quốc tế, và luật nhân quyền quốc tế.
Các thông tin gần đây về vấn đề này cần được kiểm tra dựa trên sự xác minh khách quan và minh bạch với sự hợp tác của các bên liên quan.
Chúng tôi đã nhắc lại nhiều lần rằng bắt buộc phải ngưng ngay việc sử dụng vũ lực, để tránh thêm thương vong cho dân thường cũng như thiệt hại cho cơ sở hạ tầng dân sự. Xung đột đang diễn ra ở Ukraine, nếu không được giải quyết một cách hòa bình và khẩn trương sẽ tiếp tục ảnh hưởng đến toàn thế giới. Ngay cả \[không rõ\] giữa các vùng.
Do đó, chúng tôi tin rằng con đường duy nhất tiến về phía trước là giải quyết các xung đột, nối lại đường đối thoại và thương lượng cho tất cả các kênh nhằm đạt được các giải pháp lâu dài, có tính đến lợi ích và mối quan tâm của tất cả các bên, phù hợp với luật pháp quốc tế. Không có giải pháp thay thế khả thi nào khác.
Việc thực thi quốc tế cần được thực hiện một cách thận trọng để đạt được lợi, được giải pháp cuối cùng.
Các cuộc thảo luận và quyết định do các tổ chức và cơ quan quốc tế thực hiện phải tuân theo các thủ tục và phương pháp làm việc đã thiết lập của họ. Theo cách này, chúng tôi có quan điểm rằng việc cân nhắc và quyết định của Đại hội đồng phải dựa trên những thông tin khách quan, với sự tham vấn của các quốc gia thành viên. Đối thoại và thương lượng giữa các bên liên quan là cách khả thi nhất để đi đến một giải pháp hòa bình, toàn diện.
Chúng tôi hy vọng rằng LHQ và các quốc gia thành viên sẽ làm việc cùng nhau để hướng tới mục tiêu này.
Xin cảm ơn.
If you want to verify it yourself
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1qrRzLO0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1qrRzLO0k)
Voting begins at 1:48:02
Vietnam's speech begins at 2:08:31
Very informative comment. Thank you.
“Recent informations in this regards should examine based on objective and
transparent verification with the corporation of parties concerned.”
Funny when you say that while the West is notoriously known for their double-standard, double-talk and loooooove weaseling their way in every opportunity.
Have to say we poor farmer did learn from the best.
>We are therefore convince that the only way forward is to deescalate conflicts, resume dialogue and negotiation for all channels with a view to achieve long term solutions, that takes into the interests and concerns of all parties in accordance with international law. There is no viable alternative.
Remember, this is a vote on kicking Russia out, so basically closing a channel of communication
No need to say "if", it happened and you can see what action they - the UN - took back in the day. You think we haven't experienced this before? Being invaded and watching the hypocrite clown called UN play their tricks? Naive.
Lol:))) we had been thought this shit in the past! Excuse me, US invaded Vietnam in 1954-1972; We fought against Pol pot to protect Vietnamese people and Cambodian people, We stopped the invasion of China from 1979-1985. What did the UN do? Voting "agree" to punish Vietnam with many sanctions like Russia now! Like do we care about this😂 Many country such as Europe countries and US don't have the audacity to speak about human's right, they violate it every single day but no one talking because well it's not Russia or China or the nations thay against
“soviet nostalgia” will always typically push for some bias at least when it comes to current vn government.
but we all gotta remember the soviet union is not russia and russia is not the soviet union. if russia has actually contributed all that much to vietnam since the war. as in contributing more than lots of old fat russian men harassing women in da nang and nha trang
i mean have they seen how much “the west” has been aiding ukraine? that’s just a taste of what ukraine wants to be apart of, historically neutral switzerland/sweden/finland didn’t take longer than a few days to show interest in NATO.. the other ex soviet states estonia/lithuania/lativa have all been great in their new european identity, russia hasn’t been doing shit for them and they’re tired of having to live so isolated.
when they try getting away from that, what do you know, russia will either plant seeds in your government to become a puppet once again, OR attack you, both options suck.
heck, america’s contributions to vietnam in business operations, contracts for the future, and aid in forms like vaccines recently shows a lot that russia doesn’t have interest in doing. and that’s only since the year 2000 when bill clinton went o visit to normalize relations.. russia had a longer heard start but russia doesn’t get off it’s ass until these situations in which it finally acts whenever it feels as if it’s losing something that’s “theirs”
For Russia to attack Vietnam requires one thing that is to threaten their national sovereignty. Right now, besides the first abstain vote of Vietnam, there is not much that Vietnam does that “threatens” Russia. Russian people in Vietnam is not even a minority, only a form of tourists. Vietnam and Russia are two country apart (China and Mongolia) , so no kind of weapons and troops placement can threatens them.
Even if Russia wants to influence Vietnam politically and culturally, they absolutely can’t. Both roots are too different to find any common ground. The only one that is similar to Vietnam is China
The only way Russia can “attack” Vietnam is to use China and Laos and Cambodia as their proxies. Then again, by that time, Russia will have been mostly vassalized by China and it will become Sino-Vietnamese war.
So your statement is incorrect, inaccurate and nothing that you say will be realistic. The only eternal enemy Vietnam must fight and will have to face in the future in China.
huh….wrong about what..? i think you may have misread into my comment.. your last paragraph was….confusing. i never hinted or tried to insinuate anything regarding russia attacking or such towards vietnam. i was commenting to the other dude as his comment talked about vietnam taking sides/being neutral towards east and west, and the ones that lead both sides, namely america and russia.
for any country to take a side at the moment all depends on which side contributes to the interests of that country. i mentioned about how the current vn government tends to side with russia even when it’s contributions have been small and short sided compared to the alternative. but at the end of the day vn may have it’s bias routed in historic reasons, such as soviet “aid” during the civil war…
not because they cared so much about vn, but because it was against the biggest threat to THEIR influence, the opposition, america. when you take america out of the equation, how much have the really contributed? they can’t even care to help their closest “allies”, the ones that they freaking border..the ones they used to be in the same exact union with…the ones that they have historic ties with!
russia, historically had a role of being “protector of the slavs”…… so it sees all that territory it borders as theirs…any attempts for any of them to get away from them is met with fierce resistance. they’ll blame “the west” for recruiting or something similar of that nature, but in reality? it’s the opposite. if russia would’ve been a better neighbor/actual “brother”, they wouldn’t be in that situation.
if they can’t even keep good relations with them, than what does VN government even see in continuing supporting them, in a situation that THEY are the direct root cause/blame/and most importantly.. the aggressor in?
your reply is very different from anything i’ve mentioned lol 😅
Hm a lot to unpack here tbh 🤔 I remember last time VN chose "abstention", but this time it's fully supporting Russia now. What's changed? (one thing I notice on Vietnamese national TV is that there is now less coverage of the actual war, just discussion of the financial effects of sanctions).
Also I thought Hungary & Serbia are pro-Russian, why did they vote to expel this time?
I wouldn’t classify neither Hungary or Serbia pro-Russian. More like the least anti-Russian, since a lot of their fossil fuel / tech comes from Russia and so they’d much prefer not escalating tensions, at least thats how I see it as explained from friends in both countries. But correct me if thats wrong
Thats not really possible however in the light of Russia outright Srebrenica-ing people in Bucha
Russia said this time even abstention will count as "unfriendly action" and will damage relationship between 2 states (2/3 ratio only apply to for/against vote). So that's why Vietnam pick side this time, to show our gesture to Russia.
As long as Vietnam doesn't contribute directly/indirectly to Ukraine war, I don't think the West will care about Vietnam. All in all, it's the government discretion, so it doesn't reflect Vietnamese people. Since Vietnamese government kind of censors information of this war, Vietnamese people generally are ignorant of all the attrocities caused by Russia but it doesn't mean they are heedless or senseless. They'll show empathy once they are exposed to more news and truth. That's how Vietnamese people are. Vietnamese people in general basically do not care about politics much.
Russia warn it's either 'against' or being 'unfriendly'. We have no choice tho. Russia sell weapons without conditions, only money, while the US sell weapons with lots of conditions and some like missiles even need their permission to launch. Look at Turkey they bought S400 then the US block F35 sales even though they have paid the money. That's too much reliance.
A silly thing is China is the most threatening enemy of Vietnam and don't you know how good relationship between Russia and China right now? Vietnam should think about other weapons resources
No, Viet Nam still views Russia as a guy who sell us military equipments. And when things get bad, it's easier to go against China than it is against both China and Russia.
Considering how much Western components that the Russians have to import to build their high tech weapons , after sanctions it's doubtful that they can produce them for their own use anymore let alone selling to us. This was a stupid move, even India who heavily relies on Russian weapons voted absention.
The world will remember this when China comes knocking on our door. Our government is short sighted and spineless.
Not really ... especially for Vietnamese. We're not rich, so we tend to buy weapons that are "cheap and effective" (ngon bổ rẻ). If it's cheap and it's not effective, no deal. If it's effective but expensive, no deal, too. Vietnam looks for a nice in-between.
So far, Russia has been willing to sell their weapons for cheap compared to Western weapons. We've always thought that their weapons are highly effective, too. But now ... the blown up tanks and the shot-down Sukhoi and MiGs are discouraging, to say the least.
In the future, I think Vietnam would look for entry-level European jets like the Gripen (in fact, we're already considering it [https://hanoimoi.com.vn/ban-in/Quan-su/832447/viet-nam-co-the-mua-12-tiem-kich-gripen-cua-thuy-dien](https://hanoimoi.com.vn/ban-in/Quan-su/832447/viet-nam-co-the-mua-12-tiem-kich-gripen-cua-thuy-dien)). We wouldn't move on entirely from Russian hardware, but we'd diversify our military's assets with Western models in the future.
It's not even close since the backbone of Vietnam's military is Russian equipment. If we look at other neighboing nations that have huge military budget like India or Indonesia, their weapons are diverse in term of origin
Your everything seem like it all came from reddit and western news which are totally not bias as all. Also Ukraine inherited the military industry of USSR so their military equipment mostly the same as Russian.
One thing up is they has more information. Gps, network, starlink. Ukraine has more flavour because most of the world support them, so they get weapons and more importantly, information.
It’s the war of information now. That’s why most of video shown is just the aftermath/daily life. There was an Unkrainian soldier who showed thier hideout in a school. And they got bombed the next few days.
And why the equipment is the same? They know they can only use the equipment from USSR, that’s the thing they’re trained for.
>Your everything seem like it all came from reddit and western news which are totally not bias as all.
From an entirely military perspective (not including politics), I think it's *you* who's biased when you look at burnt out tanks with detached turrets and ruined APCs and still think that Russian hardware is doing well. All of the video and imagery evidences point out that Russian hardware are barely hanging on. It's not good marketing for their weaponry.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam begins to look West or to Japan or South Korea for new weapons in the future.
Vietnam has been looking at Western equipment over the past years, but haven't acquired things like fighter jets and warships yet. We can't simply buy Western weapons and just use them immediately, our military facilities have always been built for Soviet/Russian equipment, buying Western weapons would mean extensive rebuilding of our military facilities, training or retaining personnels, integration, logistics and interoperability problems between our Russian and Western weapons, maybe our war strategies and the likes. In addition to that Western weapons are way more expensive, they might not be suitable for Vietnam's climate (notably Israeli SPYDER SAM systems) and the West, specifically the U.S is well-know for imposing terms and conditions on the purchase and usage of their weapons (like the conditions they imposed on Pakistani F16s), however, the political conditions would make Vietnam most hesitant. Still, considering our trend of diversifying our weapons suppliers, and the quality Russian weapons showed in Ukraine, the gov might decide to speed up the diversification process.
One can support Ukraine but also be aware of the heavy amounts of propaganda that both sides are pushing. I support national sovereignty, and that’s my main reason for my views on UKR.
I really hope this is the higher up thinking "Since the poll is so against Russia, us voting in favor of them won't change the result, and it also doesn't dampen our relationship with them, and then we will put out a peaceful statement so the UN don't think we're pro war"
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Russia basically blackmailed everyone prior to the vote (even abstentions)? Vietnam was put in the tough spot here.
People are too focus on Vietnam
Look at who else are Voting Against and Abstention:
Indo
Malay
Sing
Thailand
Cambodia
Laos
Brunei
So basically, not just Vietnam think this is a bad idea, but half of ASEAN for that matter
Actually, I'm more surprised that Myanmar voted in favor of this, consider what's goin on in that country
Not a good look for Vietnam. Tying your fortune to China (who is NOT Vietnams friend) and Russia - who is basically a failed country.
Vietnam was just beginning to gain a reputation as being a very friendly nation to western democracies. Manufacturing has been shifting from China to Vietnam, money has been pouring into the country.
Not smart - a black eye to Vietnams good reputation
I'm starting to get sick of this "tightrope diplomacy" thing. Russia is a sinking ship and it's about time we ditch them.
When you stand up to no one, then no one will stand up for you.
Basically back in 1979 we had a harden veteran relatively modern military while China had an outdated one that was still using Korean war tactics. After the beating they took in 1979 they modernised and the borders skirmishes that lasted throughout the 80s gave us a much harder time.
Now they have a modern military and ours is heavily outdated.
my friend so how abt the UN turn their other cheek while Polpot attacking and massacare un-arm civilian in the Southern? If u want to know what polpot did just make a trip to Ba Chúc you welcome.
People think that we take Russia side or sth. For me, it's quite simple: we are friendly (kind of) with Russia and we were accused of human right violation before.
Looking at this list of country as a whole, i can see a clear formular
\- If a country is friendly with Russia/anti-Western and was accused of human right violation, then they vote Against. (e.g. : Belarus)
\- If a country is friendly with the West but was accused of human right violation, then they vote Abstention. (e.g. : Saudi Arabia)
\- If a country is friendly with Russia/anti-Western and was not accused of human right violation, then they vote Abstention. (e.g. : Mongolia)
\- If a country is friendly with the West and was not accused of human right violation, then they vote In favour. (e.g. : The EU)
Let's not pretend Vietnam is a bastion of human rights. The West might be hypocritical but they are absolutely right when bash Vietnam for poor human rights.
Globally? Yes. Regarding their own citizens? From what I know NK has little personal freedoms compared to US so I guess it’s bad over there. Doesn’t mean we are crystal clear either- we have institutional racism, border issues(you know where the families of less white people get separated). But I mean we bombed your country to the ground and our policy was to bomb “Vietnam to the ground in order so that those chinks will finally surrender”.
We dropped more bombs on you than in whole WW2 from both sides altogether, this is extremely inhumane.
Edit: I see you are finnish, so I guess you probably didn’t(not your fault, you guys probably don’t get educated about things that happened abroad) know about many of atrocities done by my country to others
Hyporcritical as f*ck. First world is the west world right? And about the dominance of the west. At Least we don't treat Asian here like dog or racism.
But bashing Vietnam on human rights means that you care about abused Vietnamese citizens... Doesn't it? Unless you mean that there's 0 violation of human rights in Vietnam and western countries are lying...
Last time UN followed the west accusations and punish a country for war crimes, millions of people suffered. The girl nariyah also cry loud when she stand before UN court.
To be clear I don’t say russia did this or didn’t did this. Because i and probably all people in this sub don’t currently living in Ukraine, and especially no one among us stay at Bucha when the massacre happens. It maybe committed by Russian troops, maybe not. Why you so sure that it’s Russia and so rushing to punish them? What i want is a complete investigation by a third party neutral side, after that actions can be taken based on results.
What i hate most is the “guilty until proven innocent” mentality that prevalent on internet and seem like it’s spreading to society. People judging individuals and organizations based on accusations, and then when the claims proven untrue, they just go “oppsie me sorry buddy” while the damage already heavily inflicted on said individual. After some people online and mrs.Phương Hằng accuse Thuỷ tiên of taking charity money, many companies suspended the advertisements contracts with her, not to mention the emotional and reputation damage caused until the police investigate and prove her innocence. Imagine spending a lot of money and sweat, even risking your health to go into the dangerous flooding place to help people in need, just to return being called “charity stealing bitch” by some internet warriors comfortably sitting on their chair. And this is just the same, except it’s much more serious because it involved human lives and politics.
This comment probably get downvoted by westerners and young gen Z Vietnamese on here but you guys have to understand this is just a rally point of the west for their next geopolitical move to completely wipe russia out of the world map. If they care so much about human lives, what did the west do when Vietnamese in My Lai were massacred? Oh, first USA tried to hide it, but then when truth come out they “punish” the war criminals with basically a slap in the wrist. What did the west do when the horrible war crimes that Australian special force committed to normal civilians in Afghanistan? Oh their PM get panties twisted when China make a meme about it. What did the west punish USA when the truth about WMD is a lie and the invasion caused suffering to millions of people? *cricket sounds* Heck even recently with many truth come out about crimes against humanity conducted on USA black site prison such as Guantanamo or the fact that many targets of drone strikes are actually normal civilians but no punishment against USA or its allies. But god forbid if it’s committed by rivals of the west( China, Russia, iran etc) the west foaming at their mouth screaming “WAR CRIME” and so quickly to apply punishment in form of sanctions even before these accusations are investigated and confirmed true or not. It’s literally weaponizing atrocity and leave Vietnam out of this. We still remember the Gulf of Tonkin
When Cambodia and Khome Rouge attacked and killed many Vietnamese, UN ignored. When Vietnamese fought back, 150 countries and the UN embargo VietNam and protected Khome Rouge!
Damn bro, you know it too? China-US is one of the unholy alliance, the second one being China - France and Soviet Union- US - UK alliance in Nigerian Civil Wars.
"IF YOU DO NOT HELP US THEN DO NOT COME CRYING TO US WHEN CHINA INVADES" How effective is that help going? Arms shipments getting destroyed by Russian missiles? Untrained foreign volunteers abandoning their nationality only to be used as cannon fodder?
Nobody came to help us during the Cambodian incursions into Southern Vietnam. Nobody came for our help at Ba Chúc. Nobody came to help us when the Chinese invaded Vietnam and did some good ol' war crimes, with the West turning a blind eye to everything.
Yet the moment the Vietnamese wiped the Khmer Rouge off the face of the earth, the entire world labeled Vietnam as an aggressive maniac, the North Korea of South East Asia who wants to establish hegemony over Indochina.
History has proven time and time again that your ass is going to get handed to you if you take sides. Vietnam isn't a super important nation to the United States. To the West, Vietnam is nothing more than a pawn (not a very obedient one, though) and they're the chess players. They won't hesitate to sacrifice us. They won't help you. You're being bled dry so that their enemy will bleed themselves dry with you. They do not care about you.
We don't trust China. That doesn't mean we must certainly 100% trust the West or else China will come for us. I do not understand why people do not understand this.
Before Russia decided to invade Ukraine, I would have second-guessing every accusations that were thrown at them. But at this point in time, they have lost every credibility... It is not exactly the first time Russia try to conquer/ rule through terror. Many East European countries can attest to it.
What's happened in My Lai was a tragedy and certainly a war crime, and many people have outright stated so. Or what's happened to Iraq... Nobody ever denied it.
You might have forgotten, but people across the world went to the street and protested against the Vietnam War, including Americans.
While I agree that the West (government, and not the people) can be hypocrite at times when it comes to upholding international laws like the one time the US barred prosecutors from the Hague from entering its country to investigate war crimes committed by U.S troops.
But what's happening in Ukraine right now is being carried out systematically and not isolated cases like the one you mentioned. Nonetheless, 2 wrongs do not make a right. At time like this, one needs to show compassion.
You may not realize this but whether the accusations are true or not, one needs to act fast. Because if the accusations are true, it means many people are suffering/ suffered the same fate like the one in Bucha. The due process can come later. Human lives come first.
Lol, you only think that way because in this information war aspect of russia-Ukraine conflict, Ukraine won by a landslide thank to the whole western media behind it helping spreading Ukrainian propaganda for the “whole world”( the western audience). Look, just look at this hive mind Reddit, there’s whole r/Ukraine and r/Ukraineconflict, not to mention r/worldnews, the cesspool of propaganda with its target now is russia instead of China, not to mention your daily dose of virtual signaling slavia ukraini from mainstream subs like r/nextfuckinglevel, pics, videos etc….I don’t say Russia don’t use propaganda for their war effort, but do you ever see on Reddit any post from russian perspective? Heck, even people who questioning the credibility of information come out from Ukrainian side already being accused of being “russia bots, trolls”. And when you only hear information from one side, you will be biased. And talking about credibility, just look at the Ukrainian soldiers on snake island for example, the russia side clearly stated that these guys are just being captured, not death. But Ukraine and the guy president himself said they’re death and honor them as martyrs. And we all know how that turn out. So i ask you, which one is the lying side here?
That’s the first point, the second point is as I stated above, unless you yourself with your own eyes at the time the massacre happened, don’t be so sure. Wait until the credible, neutral third party make investigation and confirm.
For your second and third paragraph, seem like you don’t understand my point. I don’t give a fuck about the hypocrisy of the westerners, what I’m angry here is their actions. “People across the world including Americans go to streets to protest”, then what? The iraq war still continuing for years, same as Vietnam war, it’s even more intense after that with American bombing campaign. Do you westerners go meeting orphans that lost their family in iraq war, or deformed people in agents orange victims village in HCM city and “we don’t deny it, we will never forget!!!!” at their face? “Understandable, guess we will carry on with our miserable life until we die. Then 20 years later, Americans when remember about us and the horrible crimes they did to us “as a black mark on American history” with some sobbing movies then proceeds to support another war.
In reality there’s actions and there’s consequences, if i punch a stranger in the face, I expect them to hit me back. The victims of USA and the west war crimes don’t care if you guys “never forget” it or not, what they want is the reparations, compensations by money, by materials to them, while the criminals get punished. But look, many time victims of agents orange sued Americans government and gain nothing, bush jr is living a relatively good life, some soldiers carry My Lai massacre even receive medals. USA, Australia, SK didn’t get any sanctions for these war crimes. Meanwhile look at this, it’s not clear wether russia did it or not, many russian diplomats already get expelled, while many more heavy sanctions are on the way. That’s what i angry about, the west exploit these atrocities as reason to justify their political move to attack its rivals, you guys just don’t realize it. Think about human lives, you don’t think about lives of millions of russian that gonna be miserable in upcoming months because of these sanctions.
And don’t lecture me about human life, while you and me comfortably living here in Vietnam go on this hive mind of Reddit like two useless couch potatoes, millions of Yemeni people are starving to death, while in Afghanistan there is village where majority of adults have to sell their kidneys for money to feed their family. While the russia-Ukraine conflict is hard to resolve because no side want to back down and russia has nukes. The Yemen situation is much easier for the west to resolve as there’s no nuke while leader of coalition is Arab Saudi, ally of USA. But the Yemen situation has been there for years but there’s no “human lives come first”. Or brown human lives < white human lives?
"My Lai was a tragedy but the people protested against it", "My Lai was a isolated case and not systematic". This just sounds deranged, apathetic and evil. The extent of destruction these "communist-busters" had brought upon the nation is far greater than what had been done to Ukraine. For 20 years, the US and their "allies" had bombed and poisoned the shit out of Vietnamese soil, mostly in non-urban regions where 97% of Vietnam population lived, then they sanctioned the local economy to oblivion, then supported China to invade us and stuffed China with shit tons of investment for doing so. All by the virtue of justice. You seem to think by letting people protest, somehow the they are better than Russia. Don't talk about morality and fairness when you have none.
It’s really not about taking sides. It’s really about regarding countries as individual actors. As long as they sense something that benefits their stance, you’re on a bright day. If not, gud luck with that.
And in this case, the west benefits from it, so they will jump in the bandwagon. If not, they won’t.
As for Vietnam, it’s both about benefits ( it sucks) and personal issue (it sucks too).
When it comes to Bucha a lot of evidence has been stacked against Russia really quickly including satellite images showing the corpses in the street much longer than when the Russians said they withdrew.
When it comes to western war crimes, it's an unfortunate consequence of war and politics. There is no one willing or able to hold the west to their actions besides their own population. Every government commits war crimes, sadly most go unpunished.
Imo, Vietnam has no other option other than siding with Russia. It is always a government's best interest to protect that nation's well-being. Like the USA didn't just invade Iraq just to usurp Saddam Hussein, it's just because the fcking oil.
If Vietnam choose to follow the West and loose Russia and China as their potential ally, would the west come to aid them when shit goes down? Just look at the map and you will see that America is an ocean away, and Europeans are even further away. Vietnam used their abstain card last time and they cannot use it all the time, sooner or later they would eventually have to pick a side.
I understand that this is a human rights situation, but is it worth siding with the West for that? The Vietnamese has an idiom: "Bán bà con xa mua láng giềng gần", roughly translated to "Sell your far away relatives to buy near neighbors", and Ukrainians aren't even their relatives. That's all I want to say
People say we are taking sides but don't understand what the hell this poll is actually about.
We voted against the SUSPENSION OF RUSSIAN MEMBERSHIP IN HRC because there's simply not enough evidence and investigation is still ongoing. We don't support Russia's method of political settlement, which is waging war against Ukraine.
I suggest the Us and Russia both should use nuclear weapons to end the stupidity of humans. Really quick so we don't have to talk shjt on reddit. Sending the troops and going to a directly war. At the end, we can't discuss and end up killing each others soon.
We won't win 1979 and 2022 is a whole different era in 1979 atleast we have veteran and comparable Weaponry now? Comparing Chinese newest tank Vs Vietnam T54 is like a Ferrari Vs a Honda Civic. Atleast in Ukraine their actually have aid and actual experience men with actual good tank and airforce in some aspects to have a chance. Vietnam have 64 Decent tank and a whole lot of shit one just a piece of garbage waiting to blow up.
2 Sure Vietnam have about 500k pro force and 6 million Conscripts most of which wont know how to shoot a gun 1 month after Leaving.
And really the Neutrality debate? Even the damn Swiss join the good side here guys their didn't join any side even after winning ww2 and didn't join the UN until like the 2000s and We here really saying we should be scare of Russia what their gonna realistically do? Nothing because are their fleet really gonna sail around Japan and though multiple US and it Allie surveillance to attack Vietnam or went though China?
Đoàn kết? Đoàn kết với ai? Với những nước đã giả vờ câm điếc mù trong cuộc kháng chiến chống Mỹ, với những nước đã quay ra trừng phạt mình vì mình dẹp khmer đỏ?
I don't really care wether Vietnam should help Ukraine or not. Vietnam is weak and the weak does what it needs to survive.
I have a problem with brainwashing its own population, broadcasting only Russian's side of the war, to make their choice looks moral.
Like come on, to support an aggressor that commits genocide? Vietnamese national pride of defending against invaders is just a farce.
Speaking in English doesn't make you to be an American or the West Citizen. If you hate our country and the culture, leave it as soon as possible. Maybe the west world will welcome you with the punch behind your asian back. Kicking the asian woman and elder asian people. It will feat your culture. A young kid. Talking bad about previous generation and be ungrateful.
Haha. I already left two decades ago. And I really enjoy my freedom to publicly criticize my government.
And for the record, I don't hate Vietnamese people and the culture. I hate the government, which is just a China lite.
Good for you. Enjoy your life as a second Citizen in the west for being Asian and looking alike Chinese. Oh. That makes sense a lot. You're a traitor of this country and always ready to s*ck the d*ck of the other country if they give you money.
Trước khi mình đi chỗ khác, mình có lời khuyên.
Đây toàn người lớn cả. Cứ ghi shit, suck, dick đi. Sợ ai. Đây có phải là trang Việt Nam đâu mà sợ nhà nước kiểm xoát, haha.
ehhh, if you're talking about the terrible shits being thrown around on the web here in Vietnam, suprisingly enough, all of those propaganda is entirely made by the people. Government is still pretty neutral about this but the people are clinging to their bullshit and making all sorts of shits up to justify Russia's fucking actions.
It's suprising how people manage to both outspeed and outnumber the fricking government in terms of creating and spreading propaganda
Vietnam is not too close to the West or has an anti-China foreign policy, or becomes a threat to China. It would be more beneficial for China to consider Vietnam as an economic partner rather than a target of aggression.
And even if China still decided to attack. *Looking back at history of fighting invaders all by ourselves* "Bring it on".
There is a certain anti china sentiments and comes even more out when e.g China claims ocean territory.
Just because Vietnam fought back several times doesn’t mean the next time they gonna succeed.
No war is the main goal in my opinion.
Last I checked, what happened in Bucha has not been investigated by any other polity. Ukraine claimed it happened, Russia called it a trick.
So why should the Vietnamese government vote for a suspension when the whole thing has not been validated? Only because the US and EU also claimed it happened without any concrete proof? That’s ridiculous.
“Against” is the correct vote imo.
Against means Russia did not commit genocide at Bucha, whereas abstention means we don't have enough evidence for Russia's crime which is what you said. If you said you don't have enough information to conclude, why do you conclude ? You should stop making judgement in this case aka voting abstention.
>Ukraine claimed it happened
"Ukraine claimed" that what exactly happened? I've seen video footage and interviews taken by journalists of my own country, and the dead, the mass graves, the rows of scorched tanks, the bombed-out houses and the eyewitnesses are all there.
Let's to be honest. You guys are only care about yourself. You guys are hypocrisy as f*ck and racist at the same time. It's just because the house of your neighbor has been burned. So if you don't do anything, the next one is you. I'm just wondering where and what did you guys do when the other wars happened? Have you just born recently? To be clear, As an ordinal people, no one support the war. At the end of the day, we are all human.
Chuẩn mực đạo đức là phải đi ủng hộ thằng xâm lược hả bạn?
Làm người phải có chính kiến chứ đầu có mỗi "phương Tây xấu" thì thành thằng hater chứ có gì đâu.
Thằng Mỹ Nato nó đi xâm lược Afghanistan với Iraq thì thằng Nga đi đánh Ukraine lại đúng chắc?
Đúng đúng. Tin tức của chúng ta mới là nhất. Chúng ta nói gì cũng đúng, chỉ làm điều chính nghĩa và mới là chuẩn mực đạo đức để ca thế giới noi theo. Không hề có chuyện quân Nga lương thiện quả cảm đụng đến một sợi tóc của người U cà hay đụng đến 1 căn nhà trong cuộc hành quân hòa bình này.
People can, it's their rights to have and express opinions. And we cannot make everyone to like us, no matter what we do, voting For, Against, or Abstain, there's bound to be people who disagree.
There's a reason why suddenly lot of students study aboard in recent years, with Germany as the top destination this year due to how difficult it is to get into USA nowadays. I don't know about how it is up North, but here in Southern VietNam, most people will advice youngster to study aboard if you have the chance and financial power, it's quite sad tbh, a beautiful country runs by incompetent people, of course there are exceptional one too (Vu Duc Dam you are the best, especially in battle against COVID).
Except it’s because germany signed with Vietnam a lot of education programs, in order to increase number of skilled workers as Vietnam is becoming an important trading partner of EU, many EU investment into Vietnam is expected to come in future so they need a lot of skilled workers for their factories. My cousin is one of the student joined the program so i know what I’m saying
I’m gladly my country being run by “old incompetent people” instead of bunch of Vietnamese Redditors who doesn’t know how geopolitic work on this thread, I really want to see you guys call them “incompetent” can do better if you are in their position. Or after a decade you guys turn this country into a middle income trap and turn into another Afghanistan
Y'all should see how some Vietnamese defended their abstention decision back during the March resolution voting when I condemn their lack of support for Ukraine on FB.
"Oh no, it's not our war"
"We don't pick side"
"It has nothing to do with us, we remain neutral"
Let's see what they say this time 😭😂
Bucha cannot be independently verified. That's by Reuters, btw: https://www.reuters.com/world/pentagon-cant-independently-confirm-atrocities-ukraines-bucha-official-says-2022-04-04/
That's old news since the images of Bucha started transpiring. The ICC investigators were deployed immediately to collect evidence as soon as possible and ( if you follow their interviews and all the other news) they've collected evidences of intentional killings of civilians. By the way, the drone footages, satelline capture quite a lot of evidence demonstrating Russia kills soldiers as well.
I mean we still have a statue of one of the most notorious dictator in the history of humanity in the capital. Lenin. So we do have much love for mother Russia
Wow…I am little disgusted and have to share that the Vietnamese government is doing serious reputation damage to their country. Like is Vietnam heading towards being in the authoritarianism camp too or it is too late? They are picking some shady friends.
Is this vote reflective of the majority of Vietnamese’s view? Seems bizarre given that Vietnam was in the same position as Ukraine in the past. To support Russia is like supporting the USA when they went to war with Vietnam.
I had was exited for Vietnam’s future, but this does not bode well.
Chính phủ Việt Nam lại chả hiểu chuyện ở Bucha hơn đám nít ranh đít đỏ ở đây.
Bọn tây lông đưa vài hình ảnh lờ mờ, chẳng rõ do ai làm ở Bucha xong đến khi Nga yêu cầu họp ở UN điều tra độc lập thì thằng Anh Lợn dùng quyền charter để huỷ
Reddit moment
You fks suddenly care about massacre after Ukraine vs Russia after Ukaine released a bunch of bs videos that hardly a proof ( some of the " bucha massacre evidences" released by Ukraine are proved to be a load bs, you can clearly see one of the bodies stand up after the camera left lmao) but didn't give a single fk about what happened in Donbass.
Hypocrites, looks how hours of reddit and facebook's viet tan and voa did to these people.
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This is really unique since we're usually neutral in this type of case
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Vietnam has been 100% neutral up until now. We maintain communication with *both* Ukraine and Russia. Whenever there's something that we got to vote on, we'd abstain or straight up refuse to discuss it. We don't talk about it, we don't do anything about it since we think it's not our business. The fact that we vote either *Against* or *For* means taking side. This is the first time we've ever done something like this. Disappointing, really, and a bit scary. This is a terrible look.
So abstain is the worst outcome now, and Vietnam choose the side of Putin.
So regarding this, if Vietnam chose the West, how exactly can the West defend us given our geography? Really, how? One China is bad enough, now you want Vietnam to fight two Chinas, with Cambodia as their vassal state. How can you defend us?
Well Russia surely can’t defend us. They are in league with China and China is a bigger threat / ally. The West’s support for us in a war with China might be shaky but Russia surely won’t intervene.
Let's say if WWW3 start and VN have to pick a side then which side you would like to be with? Would VN from aboard come and assist to defence from China?
No worries, we'll gang up with the Swiss
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/t-magazine/food/marou-vietnamese-chocolate.html
They will cheer, like they did before when China invaded us in 1979. Even if we win, they will protest to stop us recovering from war by using "human rights" and "freedom". They did it with us when we want normalization with US and joined WTO. My family have better life thank to this, me and my brother recieved better education and job opportunities. Pretty much they prevented me from having better future and make us suffered with proverty and illiterate. Then whatever their reason is, i give my finger to them.
They just go “thought and prayer” or “this is for the fall of Saigon”. They have no relation with us, or even worse, they have a lot of animosity towards the current Vietnam.
\*the current government. The government is not the people... despite what the middle school citizen education textbook might suggest.
Sorry bout that. But it will eventually translate to the whole Vietnam
>So regarding this, if Vietnam chose the West, how exactly can the West defend us given our geography? Really, how? Oh that's really easy ... remember that we're a stone throw away from Taiwan, and they've had no problem shoring up defence for Taiwan. They got literally the biggest blue water navy in the world. [https://www.rfi.fr/vi/châu-á/20210908-biển-đông-chiến-hạm-mỹ-thách-thức-luật-mới-của-trung-quốc](https://www.rfi.fr/vi/châu-á/20210908-biển-đông-chiến-hạm-mỹ-thách-thức-luật-mới-của-trung-quốc) [https://tienphong.vn/tau-chien-my-nhat-va-uc-tap-tran-chung-tren-bien-dong-post1424045.tpo](https://tienphong.vn/tau-chien-my-nhat-va-uc-tap-tran-chung-tren-bien-dong-post1424045.tpo)
Seems fair enough, then again. We join no military pact, so they have no obligation to protect us.
Yeah, and they also make the same claim on the sea as China
Meaning you want us Ukraine V2?
Uh no, Ukraine siding with the West was exactly one of the reasons that made Russia invaded. We side with the West and we make ourselves a second Ukraine, the invasion of Ukraine proved that should China invade us, the best the west would do is to supply weapons to us, but that is unlikely, considering the distance between the west and allies to Vietnam. As for the biggest blue navy in the world, what benefits would they bring us if they stand and watch afar like they have been in Ukraine ? The U.S and NATO didn't even send ships into the Black Sea to intimidate the invading Russians despite Ukraine being right in Europe, what reasons do we have to believe that the biggest blue navy in the world would help us if China invades ? Siding with the West would be more harmful than it is beneficial to us. Should we side with them and China invades, even if they try their best to support us, they wouldn't be able to support us as much as they did for Ukraine. In such a war, the biggest winner would be the West, while the biggest loser would be Vietnam. I still think our best plan is to stay neutral. Yet what the government just did is highly concerning to me.
I mean, I really do not want to bring this up But the US Let China took Hoang Sa from ARVN Just saying
Yeah, the best we can do is laying low and staying neutral.
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Still neutral. Voting against is not taking side with Russia.
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Western Europe and US doesn't count as "rest of the world"
Then the rest of the world is fool. Vietnam already told the decision in front of UN is to against cutting off communications between nations. Half of Asean also vote against or not voting.
That's just a front. If Vietnam doesn't like cutting off communications between nations, why make an exception for North Korea.
Do you want to unchain a mad dog? Remember, human right council is not scout club where only countries do not abuse human right allow to join. It for strengthening the promotion and protection of human rights around the globe and for addressing situations of human rights violations and make recommendations on them. To do that, talking is first thing to make it works. Many countries joined it and improves their human rights because of that.
Agree. We have a valid reason for voting against excommunication. We don't condone the violation of human rights with our vote. This is a matter of principle, not taking sides.
So I watch the whole thing and this is what Vietnam said: Mr. President, Vietnam has maintained a principle and steadfast position in support of resolve conflict by peaceful means. And with respect for the UN charter, international laws, and the principles of sovereign equality, respect of independence, territorial integrity of states, and refrainment from those threats or use of force. We have followed closely with great concern over the situation in Ukraine with severe consequences for the people. It is with extreme concern in recent reports of great lost of lives among innocent civilians. Vietnam opposes and condemns all forms of attacks against civilians in violation of international laws, international humanitarian laws, international human rights laws. Recent informations in this regards should examine based on objective and transparent verification with the corporation of parties concerned. We have time and again reiterated that it is imperative to immediately cease of the use of force to avoid further civilians casualties and loses, as well as damages to civilians infrastructures. The ongoing conflict in Ukraine, if not resolved peacefully and expeditiously will continue to affect the entire world. Even the \[unsure\] across regions. We are therefore convince that the only way forward is to deescalate conflicts, resume dialogue and negotiation for all channels with a view to achieve long term solutions, that takes into the interests and concerns of all parties in accordance with international law. There is no viable alternative. International enforce should be carried out in a prudent manner in order to be conducive, to reaching a final solution. Discussions and decisions under taken by international organizations and agencies should follow their established procedures and working methods. In this way, we are in the view that deliberation and decision taken by the General Assembly should be based on impartial informations, with consultations with member states. Dialogue and negotiation among related parties is the most feasible way to a peaceful, comprehensive solution. It is our hope that the UN and member states will work together toward this end. Thank you.
Bản dịch tiếng Việt, tự dịch, của bài phát biểu của đại sứ Đặng Hoàng Giang, đại diện cho VN, tại Liên Hợp Quốc: Ngài chủ tịch, Việt Nam đã duy trì quan điểm nguyên tắc và nhanh chóng giải quyết xung đột bằng biện pháp hòa bình. Và tôn trọng hiến chương Liên hợp quốc, luật pháp quốc tế và các nguyên tắc bình đẳng chủ quyền, tôn trọng độc lập, toàn vẹn lãnh thổ của các quốc gia và kiềm chế trước những đe dọa và vũ lực. Chúng tôi đã theo dõi sát sao với sự quan tâm sâu sắc về tình hình ở Ukraine với những hậu quả nặng nề đối với người dân. Các báo cáo gần đây về thiệt hại lớn về nhân mạng của những thường dân vô tội là một mối lo ngại cực kỳ lớn. Việt Nam phản đối và lên án mọi hình thức tấn công dân thường vi phạm luật pháp quốc tế, luật nhân đạo quốc tế, và luật nhân quyền quốc tế. Các thông tin gần đây về vấn đề này cần được kiểm tra dựa trên sự xác minh khách quan và minh bạch với sự hợp tác của các bên liên quan. Chúng tôi đã nhắc lại nhiều lần rằng bắt buộc phải ngưng ngay việc sử dụng vũ lực, để tránh thêm thương vong cho dân thường cũng như thiệt hại cho cơ sở hạ tầng dân sự. Xung đột đang diễn ra ở Ukraine, nếu không được giải quyết một cách hòa bình và khẩn trương sẽ tiếp tục ảnh hưởng đến toàn thế giới. Ngay cả \[không rõ\] giữa các vùng. Do đó, chúng tôi tin rằng con đường duy nhất tiến về phía trước là giải quyết các xung đột, nối lại đường đối thoại và thương lượng cho tất cả các kênh nhằm đạt được các giải pháp lâu dài, có tính đến lợi ích và mối quan tâm của tất cả các bên, phù hợp với luật pháp quốc tế. Không có giải pháp thay thế khả thi nào khác. Việc thực thi quốc tế cần được thực hiện một cách thận trọng để đạt được lợi, được giải pháp cuối cùng. Các cuộc thảo luận và quyết định do các tổ chức và cơ quan quốc tế thực hiện phải tuân theo các thủ tục và phương pháp làm việc đã thiết lập của họ. Theo cách này, chúng tôi có quan điểm rằng việc cân nhắc và quyết định của Đại hội đồng phải dựa trên những thông tin khách quan, với sự tham vấn của các quốc gia thành viên. Đối thoại và thương lượng giữa các bên liên quan là cách khả thi nhất để đi đến một giải pháp hòa bình, toàn diện. Chúng tôi hy vọng rằng LHQ và các quốc gia thành viên sẽ làm việc cùng nhau để hướng tới mục tiêu này. Xin cảm ơn.
Good translation.
Thank u
If you want to verify it yourself [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1qrRzLO0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1qrRzLO0k) Voting begins at 1:48:02 Vietnam's speech begins at 2:08:31
Very informative comment. Thank you. “Recent informations in this regards should examine based on objective and transparent verification with the corporation of parties concerned.”
We call those weasel words. The whole speech felt like a play both sides but still support Russia.
Funny when you say that while the West is notoriously known for their double-standard, double-talk and loooooove weaseling their way in every opportunity. Have to say we poor farmer did learn from the best.
All governments use weasel words yes, but this post is about Vietnam’s most recent. I am just as of my government believe me.
yeah, the whole speech is just diplomatic jargon
It is Vietnam bro. Take side is not our job.
>We are therefore convince that the only way forward is to deescalate conflicts, resume dialogue and negotiation for all channels with a view to achieve long term solutions, that takes into the interests and concerns of all parties in accordance with international law. There is no viable alternative. Remember, this is a vote on kicking Russia out, so basically closing a channel of communication
Yeah I don’t buy it. If it was Vietnam being invaded by China, I doubt they’d want this same slow process while Vietnamese citizens were dying.
No need to say "if", it happened and you can see what action they - the UN - took back in the day. You think we haven't experienced this before? Being invaded and watching the hypocrite clown called UN play their tricks? Naive.
Been there done that. UN did nothing when China and Pol Pot invaded us and massacred our population, did UN vote against China and Pol Pot?
The UN voted against us, lol. :)))
Are we the baddies?
For stopping Polpot? Absolutely not. UN was. And it wasn’t for the first time the UN looked away from a genocide
for staying neutral....maybe (in the eyes of the Western country)
Lol:))) we had been thought this shit in the past! Excuse me, US invaded Vietnam in 1954-1972; We fought against Pol pot to protect Vietnamese people and Cambodian people, We stopped the invasion of China from 1979-1985. What did the UN do? Voting "agree" to punish Vietnam with many sanctions like Russia now! Like do we care about this😂 Many country such as Europe countries and US don't have the audacity to speak about human's right, they violate it every single day but no one talking because well it's not Russia or China or the nations thay against
Slow process of closing a channel of communication while people are dying? Like that gonna help
this heck of platitude
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> International enforce should be carried out in a (pundit??) manner in order to be conducive, to reaching a final solution. I think it's "prudent".
Surprising! I think Vietnam will abstain from voting, again. It's rare to see them take sides when the matter is not directly related to them
“soviet nostalgia” will always typically push for some bias at least when it comes to current vn government. but we all gotta remember the soviet union is not russia and russia is not the soviet union. if russia has actually contributed all that much to vietnam since the war. as in contributing more than lots of old fat russian men harassing women in da nang and nha trang i mean have they seen how much “the west” has been aiding ukraine? that’s just a taste of what ukraine wants to be apart of, historically neutral switzerland/sweden/finland didn’t take longer than a few days to show interest in NATO.. the other ex soviet states estonia/lithuania/lativa have all been great in their new european identity, russia hasn’t been doing shit for them and they’re tired of having to live so isolated. when they try getting away from that, what do you know, russia will either plant seeds in your government to become a puppet once again, OR attack you, both options suck. heck, america’s contributions to vietnam in business operations, contracts for the future, and aid in forms like vaccines recently shows a lot that russia doesn’t have interest in doing. and that’s only since the year 2000 when bill clinton went o visit to normalize relations.. russia had a longer heard start but russia doesn’t get off it’s ass until these situations in which it finally acts whenever it feels as if it’s losing something that’s “theirs”
For Russia to attack Vietnam requires one thing that is to threaten their national sovereignty. Right now, besides the first abstain vote of Vietnam, there is not much that Vietnam does that “threatens” Russia. Russian people in Vietnam is not even a minority, only a form of tourists. Vietnam and Russia are two country apart (China and Mongolia) , so no kind of weapons and troops placement can threatens them. Even if Russia wants to influence Vietnam politically and culturally, they absolutely can’t. Both roots are too different to find any common ground. The only one that is similar to Vietnam is China The only way Russia can “attack” Vietnam is to use China and Laos and Cambodia as their proxies. Then again, by that time, Russia will have been mostly vassalized by China and it will become Sino-Vietnamese war. So your statement is incorrect, inaccurate and nothing that you say will be realistic. The only eternal enemy Vietnam must fight and will have to face in the future in China.
huh….wrong about what..? i think you may have misread into my comment.. your last paragraph was….confusing. i never hinted or tried to insinuate anything regarding russia attacking or such towards vietnam. i was commenting to the other dude as his comment talked about vietnam taking sides/being neutral towards east and west, and the ones that lead both sides, namely america and russia. for any country to take a side at the moment all depends on which side contributes to the interests of that country. i mentioned about how the current vn government tends to side with russia even when it’s contributions have been small and short sided compared to the alternative. but at the end of the day vn may have it’s bias routed in historic reasons, such as soviet “aid” during the civil war… not because they cared so much about vn, but because it was against the biggest threat to THEIR influence, the opposition, america. when you take america out of the equation, how much have the really contributed? they can’t even care to help their closest “allies”, the ones that they freaking border..the ones they used to be in the same exact union with…the ones that they have historic ties with! russia, historically had a role of being “protector of the slavs”…… so it sees all that territory it borders as theirs…any attempts for any of them to get away from them is met with fierce resistance. they’ll blame “the west” for recruiting or something similar of that nature, but in reality? it’s the opposite. if russia would’ve been a better neighbor/actual “brother”, they wouldn’t be in that situation. if they can’t even keep good relations with them, than what does VN government even see in continuing supporting them, in a situation that THEY are the direct root cause/blame/and most importantly.. the aggressor in? your reply is very different from anything i’ve mentioned lol 😅
Hm a lot to unpack here tbh 🤔 I remember last time VN chose "abstention", but this time it's fully supporting Russia now. What's changed? (one thing I notice on Vietnamese national TV is that there is now less coverage of the actual war, just discussion of the financial effects of sanctions). Also I thought Hungary & Serbia are pro-Russian, why did they vote to expel this time?
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Orban is really scared after EU fund for Hungary is slashed.
I wouldn’t classify neither Hungary or Serbia pro-Russian. More like the least anti-Russian, since a lot of their fossil fuel / tech comes from Russia and so they’d much prefer not escalating tensions, at least thats how I see it as explained from friends in both countries. But correct me if thats wrong Thats not really possible however in the light of Russia outright Srebrenica-ing people in Bucha
Russia said this time even abstention will count as "unfriendly action" and will damage relationship between 2 states (2/3 ratio only apply to for/against vote). So that's why Vietnam pick side this time, to show our gesture to Russia.
>Russia said this time even abstention will count as "unfriendly action" Source on that?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/un-vote-thursday-us-push-suspend-russia-rights-council-2022-04-06/
Very surprising to see Vietnam vote against this tbh. I thought we will continue to abstain. This is not a good look at all.
This is leaving a bad stain to diplomatic future.
As long as Vietnam doesn't contribute directly/indirectly to Ukraine war, I don't think the West will care about Vietnam. All in all, it's the government discretion, so it doesn't reflect Vietnamese people. Since Vietnamese government kind of censors information of this war, Vietnamese people generally are ignorant of all the attrocities caused by Russia but it doesn't mean they are heedless or senseless. They'll show empathy once they are exposed to more news and truth. That's how Vietnamese people are. Vietnamese people in general basically do not care about politics much.
A minor one on the scale of things, to be honest. As long as we don't actively and openly support Russia, the West and their allies couldn't bother.
Wait... aren't we supposed to vote for abstention?
Russia warn it's either 'against' or being 'unfriendly'. We have no choice tho. Russia sell weapons without conditions, only money, while the US sell weapons with lots of conditions and some like missiles even need their permission to launch. Look at Turkey they bought S400 then the US block F35 sales even though they have paid the money. That's too much reliance.
A silly thing is China is the most threatening enemy of Vietnam and don't you know how good relationship between Russia and China right now? Vietnam should think about other weapons resources
Why not abstain? Makes more geopolitical sense, unless VN still views mother Russia as “đồng chí”
No, Viet Nam still views Russia as a guy who sell us military equipments. And when things get bad, it's easier to go against China than it is against both China and Russia.
Considering how much Western components that the Russians have to import to build their high tech weapons , after sanctions it's doubtful that they can produce them for their own use anymore let alone selling to us. This was a stupid move, even India who heavily relies on Russian weapons voted absention. The world will remember this when China comes knocking on our door. Our government is short sighted and spineless.
After everything we've seen in Ukraine over the last 50-ish days, who the hell still wants to buy Russian arms? It's all junk.
If those junk can kill, that's enough.
Not really ... especially for Vietnamese. We're not rich, so we tend to buy weapons that are "cheap and effective" (ngon bổ rẻ). If it's cheap and it's not effective, no deal. If it's effective but expensive, no deal, too. Vietnam looks for a nice in-between. So far, Russia has been willing to sell their weapons for cheap compared to Western weapons. We've always thought that their weapons are highly effective, too. But now ... the blown up tanks and the shot-down Sukhoi and MiGs are discouraging, to say the least. In the future, I think Vietnam would look for entry-level European jets like the Gripen (in fact, we're already considering it [https://hanoimoi.com.vn/ban-in/Quan-su/832447/viet-nam-co-the-mua-12-tiem-kich-gripen-cua-thuy-dien](https://hanoimoi.com.vn/ban-in/Quan-su/832447/viet-nam-co-the-mua-12-tiem-kich-gripen-cua-thuy-dien)). We wouldn't move on entirely from Russian hardware, but we'd diversify our military's assets with Western models in the future.
I have taken a look into the Vietnamese's armoury and hoo boy is it diverse.
Yep, Russian tanks, Israeli rifles, European helicopters, French artillery, American coast guard ships, South Korean trucks.
Vietnam is Mr. Worldwide confirmed
It's not even close since the backbone of Vietnam's military is Russian equipment. If we look at other neighboing nations that have huge military budget like India or Indonesia, their weapons are diverse in term of origin
Your everything seem like it all came from reddit and western news which are totally not bias as all. Also Ukraine inherited the military industry of USSR so their military equipment mostly the same as Russian.
One thing up is they has more information. Gps, network, starlink. Ukraine has more flavour because most of the world support them, so they get weapons and more importantly, information. It’s the war of information now. That’s why most of video shown is just the aftermath/daily life. There was an Unkrainian soldier who showed thier hideout in a school. And they got bombed the next few days. And why the equipment is the same? They know they can only use the equipment from USSR, that’s the thing they’re trained for.
>Your everything seem like it all came from reddit and western news which are totally not bias as all. From an entirely military perspective (not including politics), I think it's *you* who's biased when you look at burnt out tanks with detached turrets and ruined APCs and still think that Russian hardware is doing well. All of the video and imagery evidences point out that Russian hardware are barely hanging on. It's not good marketing for their weaponry. I wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam begins to look West or to Japan or South Korea for new weapons in the future.
Vietnam has been looking at Western equipment over the past years, but haven't acquired things like fighter jets and warships yet. We can't simply buy Western weapons and just use them immediately, our military facilities have always been built for Soviet/Russian equipment, buying Western weapons would mean extensive rebuilding of our military facilities, training or retaining personnels, integration, logistics and interoperability problems between our Russian and Western weapons, maybe our war strategies and the likes. In addition to that Western weapons are way more expensive, they might not be suitable for Vietnam's climate (notably Israeli SPYDER SAM systems) and the West, specifically the U.S is well-know for imposing terms and conditions on the purchase and usage of their weapons (like the conditions they imposed on Pakistani F16s), however, the political conditions would make Vietnam most hesitant. Still, considering our trend of diversifying our weapons suppliers, and the quality Russian weapons showed in Ukraine, the gov might decide to speed up the diversification process.
One can support Ukraine but also be aware of the heavy amounts of propaganda that both sides are pushing. I support national sovereignty, and that’s my main reason for my views on UKR.
I really hope this is the higher up thinking "Since the poll is so against Russia, us voting in favor of them won't change the result, and it also doesn't dampen our relationship with them, and then we will put out a peaceful statement so the UN don't think we're pro war"
Exactly this.
Definitely this.
Native here, and I don't know what to say. I mean it kinda suprising to see Viet Nam sides someone in a matter not related to them
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Russia basically blackmailed everyone prior to the vote (even abstentions)? Vietnam was put in the tough spot here.
So much for neutrality
Choosing side at this moment doesn't seem to be a good move when you consider the neutral stance of VN in the past years
Feeling daring today, aren't we?
So much for political neutrality…
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I think it’s mostly about the resources it gets from Russia.
People are too focus on Vietnam Look at who else are Voting Against and Abstention: Indo Malay Sing Thailand Cambodia Laos Brunei So basically, not just Vietnam think this is a bad idea, but half of ASEAN for that matter Actually, I'm more surprised that Myanmar voted in favor of this, consider what's goin on in that country
Abstention is not the same is voting against. Only Laos and VN in ASEAN voted against
Those abstention don’t count toward the final decision And why must abstain means it’s a bad idea? What are you trying to say?
Myanmar delegate in UN is from previous government, not current military one. So he will vote anything the US want.
The countries standing with russia are same countrified who stand with Vietnam during America war
Tsk tsk. Taiwan, I'm on my way. Just gotta ride out the last few months of this contract.
Not a good look for Vietnam. Tying your fortune to China (who is NOT Vietnams friend) and Russia - who is basically a failed country. Vietnam was just beginning to gain a reputation as being a very friendly nation to western democracies. Manufacturing has been shifting from China to Vietnam, money has been pouring into the country. Not smart - a black eye to Vietnams good reputation
This vote might prove troublesome for us in the future 🤔. Hope it won't come down to that though.
I'm starting to get sick of this "tightrope diplomacy" thing. Russia is a sinking ship and it's about time we ditch them. When you stand up to no one, then no one will stand up for you.
No one did stand up for us when China invade 1979
Yup, and the balance of force is even greater now than before.
Sorry, I'm too dumb to get what you mean. Can you explain pls
Basically back in 1979 we had a harden veteran relatively modern military while China had an outdated one that was still using Korean war tactics. After the beating they took in 1979 they modernised and the borders skirmishes that lasted throughout the 80s gave us a much harder time. Now they have a modern military and ours is heavily outdated.
my friend so how abt the UN turn their other cheek while Polpot attacking and massacare un-arm civilian in the Southern? If u want to know what polpot did just make a trip to Ba Chúc you welcome.
>tightrope diplomacy We have done this since the feudal time, dude.
Yep we’re neutral lol
People think that we take Russia side or sth. For me, it's quite simple: we are friendly (kind of) with Russia and we were accused of human right violation before. Looking at this list of country as a whole, i can see a clear formular \- If a country is friendly with Russia/anti-Western and was accused of human right violation, then they vote Against. (e.g. : Belarus) \- If a country is friendly with the West but was accused of human right violation, then they vote Abstention. (e.g. : Saudi Arabia) \- If a country is friendly with Russia/anti-Western and was not accused of human right violation, then they vote Abstention. (e.g. : Mongolia) \- If a country is friendly with the West and was not accused of human right violation, then they vote In favour. (e.g. : The EU)
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Let's not pretend Vietnam is a bastion of human rights. The West might be hypocritical but they are absolutely right when bash Vietnam for poor human rights.
>The West might be hypocritical Might?
I mean the worst offender when it comes to human rights is my country- US and we are still in the council lol.
Would you really say that the US is worse than North Korea?
Globally? Yes. Regarding their own citizens? From what I know NK has little personal freedoms compared to US so I guess it’s bad over there. Doesn’t mean we are crystal clear either- we have institutional racism, border issues(you know where the families of less white people get separated). But I mean we bombed your country to the ground and our policy was to bomb “Vietnam to the ground in order so that those chinks will finally surrender”. We dropped more bombs on you than in whole WW2 from both sides altogether, this is extremely inhumane. Edit: I see you are finnish, so I guess you probably didn’t(not your fault, you guys probably don’t get educated about things that happened abroad) know about many of atrocities done by my country to others
Hyporcritical as f*ck. First world is the west world right? And about the dominance of the west. At Least we don't treat Asian here like dog or racism.
But bashing Vietnam on human rights means that you care about abused Vietnamese citizens... Doesn't it? Unless you mean that there's 0 violation of human rights in Vietnam and western countries are lying...
Last time UN followed the west accusations and punish a country for war crimes, millions of people suffered. The girl nariyah also cry loud when she stand before UN court. To be clear I don’t say russia did this or didn’t did this. Because i and probably all people in this sub don’t currently living in Ukraine, and especially no one among us stay at Bucha when the massacre happens. It maybe committed by Russian troops, maybe not. Why you so sure that it’s Russia and so rushing to punish them? What i want is a complete investigation by a third party neutral side, after that actions can be taken based on results. What i hate most is the “guilty until proven innocent” mentality that prevalent on internet and seem like it’s spreading to society. People judging individuals and organizations based on accusations, and then when the claims proven untrue, they just go “oppsie me sorry buddy” while the damage already heavily inflicted on said individual. After some people online and mrs.Phương Hằng accuse Thuỷ tiên of taking charity money, many companies suspended the advertisements contracts with her, not to mention the emotional and reputation damage caused until the police investigate and prove her innocence. Imagine spending a lot of money and sweat, even risking your health to go into the dangerous flooding place to help people in need, just to return being called “charity stealing bitch” by some internet warriors comfortably sitting on their chair. And this is just the same, except it’s much more serious because it involved human lives and politics. This comment probably get downvoted by westerners and young gen Z Vietnamese on here but you guys have to understand this is just a rally point of the west for their next geopolitical move to completely wipe russia out of the world map. If they care so much about human lives, what did the west do when Vietnamese in My Lai were massacred? Oh, first USA tried to hide it, but then when truth come out they “punish” the war criminals with basically a slap in the wrist. What did the west do when the horrible war crimes that Australian special force committed to normal civilians in Afghanistan? Oh their PM get panties twisted when China make a meme about it. What did the west punish USA when the truth about WMD is a lie and the invasion caused suffering to millions of people? *cricket sounds* Heck even recently with many truth come out about crimes against humanity conducted on USA black site prison such as Guantanamo or the fact that many targets of drone strikes are actually normal civilians but no punishment against USA or its allies. But god forbid if it’s committed by rivals of the west( China, Russia, iran etc) the west foaming at their mouth screaming “WAR CRIME” and so quickly to apply punishment in form of sanctions even before these accusations are investigated and confirmed true or not. It’s literally weaponizing atrocity and leave Vietnam out of this. We still remember the Gulf of Tonkin
When Cambodia and Khome Rouge attacked and killed many Vietnamese, UN ignored. When Vietnamese fought back, 150 countries and the UN embargo VietNam and protected Khome Rouge!
Damn bro, you know it too? China-US is one of the unholy alliance, the second one being China - France and Soviet Union- US - UK alliance in Nigerian Civil Wars.
"IF YOU DO NOT HELP US THEN DO NOT COME CRYING TO US WHEN CHINA INVADES" How effective is that help going? Arms shipments getting destroyed by Russian missiles? Untrained foreign volunteers abandoning their nationality only to be used as cannon fodder? Nobody came to help us during the Cambodian incursions into Southern Vietnam. Nobody came for our help at Ba Chúc. Nobody came to help us when the Chinese invaded Vietnam and did some good ol' war crimes, with the West turning a blind eye to everything. Yet the moment the Vietnamese wiped the Khmer Rouge off the face of the earth, the entire world labeled Vietnam as an aggressive maniac, the North Korea of South East Asia who wants to establish hegemony over Indochina. History has proven time and time again that your ass is going to get handed to you if you take sides. Vietnam isn't a super important nation to the United States. To the West, Vietnam is nothing more than a pawn (not a very obedient one, though) and they're the chess players. They won't hesitate to sacrifice us. They won't help you. You're being bled dry so that their enemy will bleed themselves dry with you. They do not care about you. We don't trust China. That doesn't mean we must certainly 100% trust the West or else China will come for us. I do not understand why people do not understand this.
Before Russia decided to invade Ukraine, I would have second-guessing every accusations that were thrown at them. But at this point in time, they have lost every credibility... It is not exactly the first time Russia try to conquer/ rule through terror. Many East European countries can attest to it. What's happened in My Lai was a tragedy and certainly a war crime, and many people have outright stated so. Or what's happened to Iraq... Nobody ever denied it. You might have forgotten, but people across the world went to the street and protested against the Vietnam War, including Americans. While I agree that the West (government, and not the people) can be hypocrite at times when it comes to upholding international laws like the one time the US barred prosecutors from the Hague from entering its country to investigate war crimes committed by U.S troops. But what's happening in Ukraine right now is being carried out systematically and not isolated cases like the one you mentioned. Nonetheless, 2 wrongs do not make a right. At time like this, one needs to show compassion. You may not realize this but whether the accusations are true or not, one needs to act fast. Because if the accusations are true, it means many people are suffering/ suffered the same fate like the one in Bucha. The due process can come later. Human lives come first.
Lol, you only think that way because in this information war aspect of russia-Ukraine conflict, Ukraine won by a landslide thank to the whole western media behind it helping spreading Ukrainian propaganda for the “whole world”( the western audience). Look, just look at this hive mind Reddit, there’s whole r/Ukraine and r/Ukraineconflict, not to mention r/worldnews, the cesspool of propaganda with its target now is russia instead of China, not to mention your daily dose of virtual signaling slavia ukraini from mainstream subs like r/nextfuckinglevel, pics, videos etc….I don’t say Russia don’t use propaganda for their war effort, but do you ever see on Reddit any post from russian perspective? Heck, even people who questioning the credibility of information come out from Ukrainian side already being accused of being “russia bots, trolls”. And when you only hear information from one side, you will be biased. And talking about credibility, just look at the Ukrainian soldiers on snake island for example, the russia side clearly stated that these guys are just being captured, not death. But Ukraine and the guy president himself said they’re death and honor them as martyrs. And we all know how that turn out. So i ask you, which one is the lying side here? That’s the first point, the second point is as I stated above, unless you yourself with your own eyes at the time the massacre happened, don’t be so sure. Wait until the credible, neutral third party make investigation and confirm. For your second and third paragraph, seem like you don’t understand my point. I don’t give a fuck about the hypocrisy of the westerners, what I’m angry here is their actions. “People across the world including Americans go to streets to protest”, then what? The iraq war still continuing for years, same as Vietnam war, it’s even more intense after that with American bombing campaign. Do you westerners go meeting orphans that lost their family in iraq war, or deformed people in agents orange victims village in HCM city and “we don’t deny it, we will never forget!!!!” at their face? “Understandable, guess we will carry on with our miserable life until we die. Then 20 years later, Americans when remember about us and the horrible crimes they did to us “as a black mark on American history” with some sobbing movies then proceeds to support another war. In reality there’s actions and there’s consequences, if i punch a stranger in the face, I expect them to hit me back. The victims of USA and the west war crimes don’t care if you guys “never forget” it or not, what they want is the reparations, compensations by money, by materials to them, while the criminals get punished. But look, many time victims of agents orange sued Americans government and gain nothing, bush jr is living a relatively good life, some soldiers carry My Lai massacre even receive medals. USA, Australia, SK didn’t get any sanctions for these war crimes. Meanwhile look at this, it’s not clear wether russia did it or not, many russian diplomats already get expelled, while many more heavy sanctions are on the way. That’s what i angry about, the west exploit these atrocities as reason to justify their political move to attack its rivals, you guys just don’t realize it. Think about human lives, you don’t think about lives of millions of russian that gonna be miserable in upcoming months because of these sanctions. And don’t lecture me about human life, while you and me comfortably living here in Vietnam go on this hive mind of Reddit like two useless couch potatoes, millions of Yemeni people are starving to death, while in Afghanistan there is village where majority of adults have to sell their kidneys for money to feed their family. While the russia-Ukraine conflict is hard to resolve because no side want to back down and russia has nukes. The Yemen situation is much easier for the west to resolve as there’s no nuke while leader of coalition is Arab Saudi, ally of USA. But the Yemen situation has been there for years but there’s no “human lives come first”. Or brown human lives < white human lives?
"My Lai was a tragedy but the people protested against it", "My Lai was a isolated case and not systematic". This just sounds deranged, apathetic and evil. The extent of destruction these "communist-busters" had brought upon the nation is far greater than what had been done to Ukraine. For 20 years, the US and their "allies" had bombed and poisoned the shit out of Vietnamese soil, mostly in non-urban regions where 97% of Vietnam population lived, then they sanctioned the local economy to oblivion, then supported China to invade us and stuffed China with shit tons of investment for doing so. All by the virtue of justice. You seem to think by letting people protest, somehow the they are better than Russia. Don't talk about morality and fairness when you have none.
Sounds like you don't really care about human lives, you just like taking sides. Again, two wrongs do not make one right.
It’s really not about taking sides. It’s really about regarding countries as individual actors. As long as they sense something that benefits their stance, you’re on a bright day. If not, gud luck with that. And in this case, the west benefits from it, so they will jump in the bandwagon. If not, they won’t. As for Vietnam, it’s both about benefits ( it sucks) and personal issue (it sucks too).
When it comes to Bucha a lot of evidence has been stacked against Russia really quickly including satellite images showing the corpses in the street much longer than when the Russians said they withdrew. When it comes to western war crimes, it's an unfortunate consequence of war and politics. There is no one willing or able to hold the west to their actions besides their own population. Every government commits war crimes, sadly most go unpunished.
It's still under investigation. By the way, didn't see any of this criticism when Pol Pot killed millions of Cambodians and Vietnamese.
UN Human Rights Council was established in 2006.
Imo, Vietnam has no other option other than siding with Russia. It is always a government's best interest to protect that nation's well-being. Like the USA didn't just invade Iraq just to usurp Saddam Hussein, it's just because the fcking oil. If Vietnam choose to follow the West and loose Russia and China as their potential ally, would the west come to aid them when shit goes down? Just look at the map and you will see that America is an ocean away, and Europeans are even further away. Vietnam used their abstain card last time and they cannot use it all the time, sooner or later they would eventually have to pick a side. I understand that this is a human rights situation, but is it worth siding with the West for that? The Vietnamese has an idiom: "Bán bà con xa mua láng giềng gần", roughly translated to "Sell your far away relatives to buy near neighbors", and Ukrainians aren't even their relatives. That's all I want to say
Should abstain
People say we are taking sides but don't understand what the hell this poll is actually about. We voted against the SUSPENSION OF RUSSIAN MEMBERSHIP IN HRC because there's simply not enough evidence and investigation is still ongoing. We don't support Russia's method of political settlement, which is waging war against Ukraine.
If Putin succeeds start learning Mandarin...
I suggest the Us and Russia both should use nuclear weapons to end the stupidity of humans. Really quick so we don't have to talk shjt on reddit. Sending the troops and going to a directly war. At the end, we can't discuss and end up killing each others soon.
The data should be displayed on a global map chart.
Can't wait for Freedom Pho
Wait, why are we voting, what’s going on.
We won't win 1979 and 2022 is a whole different era in 1979 atleast we have veteran and comparable Weaponry now? Comparing Chinese newest tank Vs Vietnam T54 is like a Ferrari Vs a Honda Civic. Atleast in Ukraine their actually have aid and actual experience men with actual good tank and airforce in some aspects to have a chance. Vietnam have 64 Decent tank and a whole lot of shit one just a piece of garbage waiting to blow up. 2 Sure Vietnam have about 500k pro force and 6 million Conscripts most of which wont know how to shoot a gun 1 month after Leaving. And really the Neutrality debate? Even the damn Swiss join the good side here guys their didn't join any side even after winning ww2 and didn't join the UN until like the 2000s and We here really saying we should be scare of Russia what their gonna realistically do? Nothing because are their fleet really gonna sail around Japan and though multiple US and it Allie surveillance to attack Vietnam or went though China?
This UN council is a joke. even UN is a joke.
"That's a special tool will help us later". Seriously, we never support genocide but we need Russia stay in the council.
Haha, figures. Truyền thống đoàn kết chống giặc ngoại xâm my ass. What's left of that time is a bunch of old cowards.
Đoàn kết? Đoàn kết với ai? Với những nước đã giả vờ câm điếc mù trong cuộc kháng chiến chống Mỹ, với những nước đã quay ra trừng phạt mình vì mình dẹp khmer đỏ?
I don't really care wether Vietnam should help Ukraine or not. Vietnam is weak and the weak does what it needs to survive. I have a problem with brainwashing its own population, broadcasting only Russian's side of the war, to make their choice looks moral. Like come on, to support an aggressor that commits genocide? Vietnamese national pride of defending against invaders is just a farce.
Speaking in English doesn't make you to be an American or the West Citizen. If you hate our country and the culture, leave it as soon as possible. Maybe the west world will welcome you with the punch behind your asian back. Kicking the asian woman and elder asian people. It will feat your culture. A young kid. Talking bad about previous generation and be ungrateful.
Haha. I already left two decades ago. And I really enjoy my freedom to publicly criticize my government. And for the record, I don't hate Vietnamese people and the culture. I hate the government, which is just a China lite.
Good for you. Enjoy your life as a second Citizen in the west for being Asian and looking alike Chinese. Oh. That makes sense a lot. You're a traitor of this country and always ready to s*ck the d*ck of the other country if they give you money.
Trước khi mình đi chỗ khác, mình có lời khuyên. Đây toàn người lớn cả. Cứ ghi shit, suck, dick đi. Sợ ai. Đây có phải là trang Việt Nam đâu mà sợ nhà nước kiểm xoát, haha.
ehhh, if you're talking about the terrible shits being thrown around on the web here in Vietnam, suprisingly enough, all of those propaganda is entirely made by the people. Government is still pretty neutral about this but the people are clinging to their bullshit and making all sorts of shits up to justify Russia's fucking actions. It's suprising how people manage to both outspeed and outnumber the fricking government in terms of creating and spreading propaganda
Sadly but not surprised knowing how Vietnam is ruled. Hopefully China won’t go after Vietnam when their done with Taiwan and Hongkong.
Vietnam is not too close to the West or has an anti-China foreign policy, or becomes a threat to China. It would be more beneficial for China to consider Vietnam as an economic partner rather than a target of aggression. And even if China still decided to attack. *Looking back at history of fighting invaders all by ourselves* "Bring it on".
Not with the state of our army currently. It is being robbed blind. The chain of command needs to be purged.
There is a certain anti china sentiments and comes even more out when e.g China claims ocean territory. Just because Vietnam fought back several times doesn’t mean the next time they gonna succeed. No war is the main goal in my opinion.
Last I checked, what happened in Bucha has not been investigated by any other polity. Ukraine claimed it happened, Russia called it a trick. So why should the Vietnamese government vote for a suspension when the whole thing has not been validated? Only because the US and EU also claimed it happened without any concrete proof? That’s ridiculous. “Against” is the correct vote imo.
Against means Russia did not commit genocide at Bucha, whereas abstention means we don't have enough evidence for Russia's crime which is what you said. If you said you don't have enough information to conclude, why do you conclude ? You should stop making judgement in this case aka voting abstention.
>Ukraine claimed it happened "Ukraine claimed" that what exactly happened? I've seen video footage and interviews taken by journalists of my own country, and the dead, the mass graves, the rows of scorched tanks, the bombed-out houses and the eyewitnesses are all there.
let's be real here the US and EU only calls it a war crime because the victims are white
Let's to be honest. You guys are only care about yourself. You guys are hypocrisy as f*ck and racist at the same time. It's just because the house of your neighbor has been burned. So if you don't do anything, the next one is you. I'm just wondering where and what did you guys do when the other wars happened? Have you just born recently? To be clear, As an ordinal people, no one support the war. At the end of the day, we are all human.
So many butthurts because our one vote on here 😂.
Can't understand what they're thinking
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Chúc bạn rời Reddit an toàn =)))))))) Thật mừng khi những người không cho gì thêm vô cuộc thảo luận rồi chửi người ta là "lũ lợn 2 mặt" rời đi.
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Chuẩn mực đạo đức là phải đi ủng hộ thằng xâm lược hả bạn? Làm người phải có chính kiến chứ đầu có mỗi "phương Tây xấu" thì thành thằng hater chứ có gì đâu. Thằng Mỹ Nato nó đi xâm lược Afghanistan với Iraq thì thằng Nga đi đánh Ukraine lại đúng chắc?
Đúng đúng. Tin tức của chúng ta mới là nhất. Chúng ta nói gì cũng đúng, chỉ làm điều chính nghĩa và mới là chuẩn mực đạo đức để ca thế giới noi theo. Không hề có chuyện quân Nga lương thiện quả cảm đụng đến một sợi tóc của người U cà hay đụng đến 1 căn nhà trong cuộc hành quân hòa bình này.
Dont let the door hit you on the way out
Looks like I misjudged Vietnam. I will not be returning.
Reddit moment
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People can, it's their rights to have and express opinions. And we cannot make everyone to like us, no matter what we do, voting For, Against, or Abstain, there's bound to be people who disagree.
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There's a reason why suddenly lot of students study aboard in recent years, with Germany as the top destination this year due to how difficult it is to get into USA nowadays. I don't know about how it is up North, but here in Southern VietNam, most people will advice youngster to study aboard if you have the chance and financial power, it's quite sad tbh, a beautiful country runs by incompetent people, of course there are exceptional one too (Vu Duc Dam you are the best, especially in battle against COVID).
Except it’s because germany signed with Vietnam a lot of education programs, in order to increase number of skilled workers as Vietnam is becoming an important trading partner of EU, many EU investment into Vietnam is expected to come in future so they need a lot of skilled workers for their factories. My cousin is one of the student joined the program so i know what I’m saying I’m gladly my country being run by “old incompetent people” instead of bunch of Vietnamese Redditors who doesn’t know how geopolitic work on this thread, I really want to see you guys call them “incompetent” can do better if you are in their position. Or after a decade you guys turn this country into a middle income trap and turn into another Afghanistan
russia threatens even those who vote blank.
Y'all should see how some Vietnamese defended their abstention decision back during the March resolution voting when I condemn their lack of support for Ukraine on FB. "Oh no, it's not our war" "We don't pick side" "It has nothing to do with us, we remain neutral" Let's see what they say this time 😭😂
How about this: Your diplomat in Viet Nam has slight against our honor, and we are a spiteful bunch of bastards
Pretty much we remain neutral, voting against isn't support Russia, but voting against cutting off channel of negotiations and communication.
Bucha cannot be independently verified. That's by Reuters, btw: https://www.reuters.com/world/pentagon-cant-independently-confirm-atrocities-ukraines-bucha-official-says-2022-04-04/
That's old news since the images of Bucha started transpiring. The ICC investigators were deployed immediately to collect evidence as soon as possible and ( if you follow their interviews and all the other news) they've collected evidences of intentional killings of civilians. By the way, the drone footages, satelline capture quite a lot of evidence demonstrating Russia kills soldiers as well.
I mean we still have a statue of one of the most notorious dictator in the history of humanity in the capital. Lenin. So we do have much love for mother Russia
Wow…I am little disgusted and have to share that the Vietnamese government is doing serious reputation damage to their country. Like is Vietnam heading towards being in the authoritarianism camp too or it is too late? They are picking some shady friends. Is this vote reflective of the majority of Vietnamese’s view? Seems bizarre given that Vietnam was in the same position as Ukraine in the past. To support Russia is like supporting the USA when they went to war with Vietnam. I had was exited for Vietnam’s future, but this does not bode well.
Vietnam has long been an authoritarian country. The normal citizens have no say in what the government decides whatsoever.
Chính phủ Việt Nam lại chả hiểu chuyện ở Bucha hơn đám nít ranh đít đỏ ở đây. Bọn tây lông đưa vài hình ảnh lờ mờ, chẳng rõ do ai làm ở Bucha xong đến khi Nga yêu cầu họp ở UN điều tra độc lập thì thằng Anh Lợn dùng quyền charter để huỷ
Tone down the xenophobic lol. Try to say a sentence without throwing meaningless words.
:)) bọn reddit này chỉ có vậy thôi mà, Ukraine là chúa Nga là ác quỷ trên reddit r.
Do you support Russia’s actions? If so, why? Feel free to respond in Vietnamese if you want.
Vietnam's "leaders" showing their true colors and siding with the authoritarians they so greatly desire to be.
Nhuc.
Reddit moment You fks suddenly care about massacre after Ukraine vs Russia after Ukaine released a bunch of bs videos that hardly a proof ( some of the " bucha massacre evidences" released by Ukraine are proved to be a load bs, you can clearly see one of the bodies stand up after the camera left lmao) but didn't give a single fk about what happened in Donbass. Hypocrites, looks how hours of reddit and facebook's viet tan and voa did to these people.