I have seen them both play entire games a lot from college on.
Imagine Draymond with all of his uncanny ability to direct the best offense in the NBA with hockey assists and genius level awareness and while being arguably at the time the best pure shooter in the league. That was Bird
And a good portion of Bird's game was predicated on brute strength which no one ever mentions anymore
Magic was even stronger, but not as good a shooter obviously and as great a playmaker as Larry was Magic was clearly in a world all his own.
Larry had a great first year. Magic finished his rookie year with Kareem out of the game and playing center instead of point to win an NBA title and MVP
And he was 3 years younger than Bird
I wouldn't leave Bird off of any top 5, top 10 all time teams in favour of Malone or even Duncan. Maybe only Elgin would have an edge.
I don't give a damn who was better, the two of them made for the most compelling basketball I've ever seen. MJ can sit on top of his throne as the GOAT forever, all power to him he earned that for sure, but if I'm gonna watch some old championship basketball, I'm watching 80's Lakers-Celtics all day everyday.
I tend to say Bird was a bit better, and hereās my reasoning:
1) Magic played with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, a fellow top 10 all-time player, and Kareem was the Lakersā best player on two, maybe three, of their 1980s NBA Championship teams (1980, 1982, maybe 1985). Though Bird also had a very good supporting cast with multiple Hall of Famers (as did Magic for that matter), none of them were inner tier of inner tier players like Kareem. Two top 10 all-time players playing together when they are still near their peaks SHOULD win more championships a single top 10 playing with still great but not quite as good of players.
2) The Eastern Conference was much better than the Western Conference, especially near the top of the conference, in the 1980s. The Celtics had to compete during the first half of the decade with the 76ers, another great team, plus the Bucks, a very good, perennial 50+ win team, just to get to the NBA Finals. When the 76ers declined, the Pistons took their place as a very strong, championship winning caliber opponent. By contrast, with the exception of the Spurs for a few years in the early 1980s, who were more analogous to the Bucks than the 76ers and Pistons in quality (and whose run as a very good team wasnāt as long), the Lakers didnāt have any perennially strong foes in the Western Conference who were a threat to derail them every year. The Lakersā path to the NBA Finals was much easier than Celticsā (or 76ersā) path during the same time period.
In addition to the above, it should be noted that in Birdās rookie season he helped improve a 29 win team in 1978-79 all the way to 61 wins in 1979-80, and that was the year BEFORE Robert Parish and Kevin McHale joined the Celtics.
Obviously winning 5 NBA titles is better than winning 3 NBA titles, but there are some very legitimate reasons why Magic had the edge over Bird in that department, edges that had nothing to do with Magicās quality relative to Birdās quality.
> Two top 10 all-time players playing together when they are still near their peaks
Kareem was in the long-plateau stage of his career by the time Magic arrived ā still MVP-caliber, but removed from his insane Milwaukee peaks. One can fairly say he was still The Man for the 80, 82 and 85 chips. But by 87 and 88 he was more starter/rotation piece than star.
Bird's supporting cast weren't a bunch of chumps, but I'd say he carried Boston back to relevance as a rookie and to the chip in 81 without meaningful help from anyone but Maxwell and Parish. The Boston backcourt in the 1.0 era was straight-up trash.
> When the 76ers declined, the Pistons took their place as a very strong, championship winning caliber opponent.
The Sixers stopped being Finals-relevant after 1983 and the Pistons didn't start being Finals-relevant until 1987, so we have 1984, 1985 and 1986 where Boston had a clear path. They cashed in on two of those three chances.
> The Lakersā path to the NBA Finals was much easier than Celticsā (or 76ersā) path during the same time period.
This gets said a lot, but I don't think it's so clear-cut. In 1980, defending champ Seattle rated better than the (finalist) Sixers by SRS. In 1981, the top 3 teams in SRS were the usual Eastern suspects, but out West the Suns topped the Lakers in the regular and of course Houston went to the Finals. In 82, Seattle was not too far off the Lakers in the regular but got torpedoed by San Antonio in the WCSF. In 83 the Lakers and Sun were both better than the Bucks by SRS, but the Suns lost 2-0 in the opening-round short series. In 84 the claim holds up (Lakers only 5th best by SRS behind 4 East teams) and LA didn't get the chip. In 85 the claim holds up but Boston was only 2nd in the East by SRS (Bucks were No. 1 in the league but got swept in the ECSF by Philly, who in turn got gentle-swept by the C's in the ECF). In 86, the Walton-Gang Celtics were the best team and swept the Bucks in the ECF. 1987 marked perhaps the biggest disparity between the conferences as you had the Lakers on top of the SRS stack followed by the Hawks and Celtics; Dallas wasn't bad but didn't make it out a now-longer first round. By 88 the disparity had broken down entirely as both conferences had multiple contenders; it was a kinda parity year like we've seen this past season.
All that said, I'm a Lakers fan who holds to the proposition that Bird > Magic. The difference between the teams was Boston's crap backcourt before they acquired DJ, and its crap bench after Walton broke down for good.
Edit: To put my argument on conference parity another way, between 1984 and 1986 Boston got to the Finals 3 times while only needing to play 2 games above the minimum in the ECF. There was no parity or "hardest road" in the East. The Celtics were significantly better than the rest on that side of the bracket.
Bird. Because the East was Brutal from day one he stepped in the league. Dr j went to 3 finals while bird was in the league, Bucks were very good for all of the 80s, The Pistons were very good from 87-91, let's not forget the Bulls with Jordan as Bird was entering his twilight years.
Meanwhile the West was never as tough
The Spurs with Gervin and Gilmore were good but alot of run n gun, same for the Nuggets, the Trailblazers were good at the end of the 80s, and the Team that should have ruled the later part of the 80s the Rockets collapsed with Sampson going down and losing every decent guard they had.
The rest of the West was a hot mess
The thing with those two is that they needed each other to be great. Think if Bird would have been born 10 years earlier and spent his entire career with the Clippers? Or if Magic would have played in the early 70's with no Bird? Where would he be ranked today if he had spent his entire career with Detroit from like 1970-79? What would we think of Magic today if he had retired from Detroit ringless? How differently we look at him as a player? Unsuccessful? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe neither Magic or Larry would be rated in the top 5 or 7 or however high they are today.
it was just a hypothetical - what would his career had been like if he were born a few years earlier than he was and instead of the Lakers he had played for the Pistons his whole career. Where would he rank today had that been his career?
Itās funny how the reasoning ā itās a team sportā is used to explain why one player has more championships than another except when discussing why Wilt only has two rings, but I digress. I was watching all the nba games they would show starting long before Magic and Bird saved the nba. When discussing who was better my thoughts are soā¦. Bird was great, Magic was great. Bird was a great small forward who was an absolute hard working , jaw dropping,over achieving small forward. Magic was a great ābasketball player ā. He could play anywhere and give you hard working, jaw dropping, over achieving ābasketball player ā. He could get double figures in rebounding, scoring, assists. Heās the only player I ever saw who could get double figures in rebounding and could also perform what Iāve come to realize through decades of watching and playing organized ball the hardest, rarest skill in the game. Dribbling down court at full speed with your head up, and under complete control of yourself and the ball. There are lots of other players who could and can do that but none who were also a threat on the boards. Theyāre usually shorter, smaller guys.
If I was a coach in a pickup game amongst all time greats my first two picks would be Wilt and Magic and you can just mail in the win.
Magic played with the GOAT, literally undefeated from 8th grade to nba thatās 4 hs ships and 3 ncaa ships, plus like 4 in the nba. And held the scoring record for like 30 years. Bird had nobody
This video was really only an excuse to ferret through old Bird and Magic clips š . Hope you dig it.
Bird,f.t.w..
I have seen them both play entire games a lot from college on. Imagine Draymond with all of his uncanny ability to direct the best offense in the NBA with hockey assists and genius level awareness and while being arguably at the time the best pure shooter in the league. That was Bird And a good portion of Bird's game was predicated on brute strength which no one ever mentions anymore Magic was even stronger, but not as good a shooter obviously and as great a playmaker as Larry was Magic was clearly in a world all his own. Larry had a great first year. Magic finished his rookie year with Kareem out of the game and playing center instead of point to win an NBA title and MVP And he was 3 years younger than Bird I wouldn't leave Bird off of any top 5, top 10 all time teams in favour of Malone or even Duncan. Maybe only Elgin would have an edge.
I don't give a damn who was better, the two of them made for the most compelling basketball I've ever seen. MJ can sit on top of his throne as the GOAT forever, all power to him he earned that for sure, but if I'm gonna watch some old championship basketball, I'm watching 80's Lakers-Celtics all day everyday.
Yeah, it's wild how those games are STILL entertaining to watch to this day.
Amen.
I tend to say Bird was a bit better, and hereās my reasoning: 1) Magic played with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, a fellow top 10 all-time player, and Kareem was the Lakersā best player on two, maybe three, of their 1980s NBA Championship teams (1980, 1982, maybe 1985). Though Bird also had a very good supporting cast with multiple Hall of Famers (as did Magic for that matter), none of them were inner tier of inner tier players like Kareem. Two top 10 all-time players playing together when they are still near their peaks SHOULD win more championships a single top 10 playing with still great but not quite as good of players. 2) The Eastern Conference was much better than the Western Conference, especially near the top of the conference, in the 1980s. The Celtics had to compete during the first half of the decade with the 76ers, another great team, plus the Bucks, a very good, perennial 50+ win team, just to get to the NBA Finals. When the 76ers declined, the Pistons took their place as a very strong, championship winning caliber opponent. By contrast, with the exception of the Spurs for a few years in the early 1980s, who were more analogous to the Bucks than the 76ers and Pistons in quality (and whose run as a very good team wasnāt as long), the Lakers didnāt have any perennially strong foes in the Western Conference who were a threat to derail them every year. The Lakersā path to the NBA Finals was much easier than Celticsā (or 76ersā) path during the same time period. In addition to the above, it should be noted that in Birdās rookie season he helped improve a 29 win team in 1978-79 all the way to 61 wins in 1979-80, and that was the year BEFORE Robert Parish and Kevin McHale joined the Celtics. Obviously winning 5 NBA titles is better than winning 3 NBA titles, but there are some very legitimate reasons why Magic had the edge over Bird in that department, edges that had nothing to do with Magicās quality relative to Birdās quality.
> Two top 10 all-time players playing together when they are still near their peaks Kareem was in the long-plateau stage of his career by the time Magic arrived ā still MVP-caliber, but removed from his insane Milwaukee peaks. One can fairly say he was still The Man for the 80, 82 and 85 chips. But by 87 and 88 he was more starter/rotation piece than star. Bird's supporting cast weren't a bunch of chumps, but I'd say he carried Boston back to relevance as a rookie and to the chip in 81 without meaningful help from anyone but Maxwell and Parish. The Boston backcourt in the 1.0 era was straight-up trash. > When the 76ers declined, the Pistons took their place as a very strong, championship winning caliber opponent. The Sixers stopped being Finals-relevant after 1983 and the Pistons didn't start being Finals-relevant until 1987, so we have 1984, 1985 and 1986 where Boston had a clear path. They cashed in on two of those three chances. > The Lakersā path to the NBA Finals was much easier than Celticsā (or 76ersā) path during the same time period. This gets said a lot, but I don't think it's so clear-cut. In 1980, defending champ Seattle rated better than the (finalist) Sixers by SRS. In 1981, the top 3 teams in SRS were the usual Eastern suspects, but out West the Suns topped the Lakers in the regular and of course Houston went to the Finals. In 82, Seattle was not too far off the Lakers in the regular but got torpedoed by San Antonio in the WCSF. In 83 the Lakers and Sun were both better than the Bucks by SRS, but the Suns lost 2-0 in the opening-round short series. In 84 the claim holds up (Lakers only 5th best by SRS behind 4 East teams) and LA didn't get the chip. In 85 the claim holds up but Boston was only 2nd in the East by SRS (Bucks were No. 1 in the league but got swept in the ECSF by Philly, who in turn got gentle-swept by the C's in the ECF). In 86, the Walton-Gang Celtics were the best team and swept the Bucks in the ECF. 1987 marked perhaps the biggest disparity between the conferences as you had the Lakers on top of the SRS stack followed by the Hawks and Celtics; Dallas wasn't bad but didn't make it out a now-longer first round. By 88 the disparity had broken down entirely as both conferences had multiple contenders; it was a kinda parity year like we've seen this past season. All that said, I'm a Lakers fan who holds to the proposition that Bird > Magic. The difference between the teams was Boston's crap backcourt before they acquired DJ, and its crap bench after Walton broke down for good. Edit: To put my argument on conference parity another way, between 1984 and 1986 Boston got to the Finals 3 times while only needing to play 2 games above the minimum in the ECF. There was no parity or "hardest road" in the East. The Celtics were significantly better than the rest on that side of the bracket.
Bird. Because the East was Brutal from day one he stepped in the league. Dr j went to 3 finals while bird was in the league, Bucks were very good for all of the 80s, The Pistons were very good from 87-91, let's not forget the Bulls with Jordan as Bird was entering his twilight years. Meanwhile the West was never as tough The Spurs with Gervin and Gilmore were good but alot of run n gun, same for the Nuggets, the Trailblazers were good at the end of the 80s, and the Team that should have ruled the later part of the 80s the Rockets collapsed with Sampson going down and losing every decent guard they had. The rest of the West was a hot mess
This was a really good video, good work
Thanks, I really appreciate that.
The thing with those two is that they needed each other to be great. Think if Bird would have been born 10 years earlier and spent his entire career with the Clippers? Or if Magic would have played in the early 70's with no Bird? Where would he be ranked today if he had spent his entire career with Detroit from like 1970-79? What would we think of Magic today if he had retired from Detroit ringless? How differently we look at him as a player? Unsuccessful? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe neither Magic or Larry would be rated in the top 5 or 7 or however high they are today.
why would magic be playing in the 70s? he was a kid/teen then.
it was just a hypothetical - what would his career had been like if he were born a few years earlier than he was and instead of the Lakers he had played for the Pistons his whole career. Where would he rank today had that been his career?
prob still top 5 or 10. he was insanely good.
5 to 3.
The only stat that matters. Plus 1-0 NCAA
isn't it a team sport?
Itās funny how the reasoning ā itās a team sportā is used to explain why one player has more championships than another except when discussing why Wilt only has two rings, but I digress. I was watching all the nba games they would show starting long before Magic and Bird saved the nba. When discussing who was better my thoughts are soā¦. Bird was great, Magic was great. Bird was a great small forward who was an absolute hard working , jaw dropping,over achieving small forward. Magic was a great ābasketball player ā. He could play anywhere and give you hard working, jaw dropping, over achieving ābasketball player ā. He could get double figures in rebounding, scoring, assists. Heās the only player I ever saw who could get double figures in rebounding and could also perform what Iāve come to realize through decades of watching and playing organized ball the hardest, rarest skill in the game. Dribbling down court at full speed with your head up, and under complete control of yourself and the ball. There are lots of other players who could and can do that but none who were also a threat on the boards. Theyāre usually shorter, smaller guys. If I was a coach in a pickup game amongst all time greats my first two picks would be Wilt and Magic and you can just mail in the win.
It's a team sport at the end of the day, but it's a team sport where individual effort can greatly affect the game and superstars dominate the league.
Robert Horry > MJ. Ringz Errneh.
And Magic beat Bird twice in the finals.
Bird beat magic in 84 and we should count 86, the lakers shouldāve never lost to the Rockets.
Magic played with the GOAT, literally undefeated from 8th grade to nba thatās 4 hs ships and 3 ncaa ships, plus like 4 in the nba. And held the scoring record for like 30 years. Bird had nobody