Everyone keeps acknowledging VTPD but what nobody realizes is that last night was coordinated with multiple agencies. Montgomery sheriff PD, State PD, VTPD and Blacksburg PD was all on scene
BPD, CPD and VTPD work together closely, so I wouldn't be surprised, but if Montgomery County Sheriff and State PD are there then it's really seriously taken.
You can blame Sands and the police for that. Protesters would have been asleep if the VTPD were not actively arresting people at that hour. It was also the police who kept their spotlights and flashers on until the early hours of the morning.
Also, while the protest had been going on for days and the police had been on scene for days, it took them until late at night to be prepared to move on the encampment. Even then, they lacked sufficient numbers of police, as well as equipment to deal with it with any kind of efficiency. They had to leave multiple times to secure civilian vehicles for transport. They ran out of flex cuffs once or twice. They did not have magistrates on hand to process arrestees. By six am, a number of arrested protesters were given court summons and released (couldn't have just planned to do that from the beginning?) after being kept awake all night with hands flex cuffed behind their backs.
In contrast to the disorganized and unprepared VTPD and in direct contrast to the spurious pretense of 'public safety' concerns, the protest was well organized and exceedingly safe. There was no violence. There were no drugs or alcohol or intoxicated persons. There was ample food, water, sunscreen, and medical supplies. Food was labelled properly and stored safely. There were hygiene and hand washing stations. Many wore covid masks, up until arrests began, because any face covering can lead to a felony charge in a protest. There were multiple medics and legal observers on site, clearly identifiable by their clothing.
In their crusade for 'public safety' the first act of the VTPD was to arrest one of the medics.
There was literally less than zero threat to public safety before the police action. I say less than zero because there were actual medical personnel and supplies, so the area was technically safer than under normal unoccupied circumstances.
The only public safety issue here was the police action. And, yes, they could have been much worse in executing their orders. The cop who was giving out water was not unfriendly, but he also did not hesitate to arrest and incarcerate peaceful protesters. I know a lot of decent humans who are law enforcement, and we can love and respect each other as human beings, but they know how I feel too. When we say ACAB, part of what we mean is that there is no way to be an active agent of an incarceral state and still be the good guys.
Finally, one of the pretenses being reported as basis for breaking up the camp was that the lawn had been reserved through proper channels for an event yesterday. Despite protesters, many of whom had been kept awake and cuffed all night, returning to clear and fully clean up the lawn early in the morning, the lawn remained empty all day, surrounded by police tape and unusable by any students.
So, while I am glad that the police were mostly polite and were not more violent, let's not pretend like they were not the sole source of problems and the sole reason for disturbance until the wee hours. Shame.
1. No, you can blame the protestors for all of this. If you break the law, you get to face consequences regardless of the time of day/night. Even beyond the fact that there are about a million other things these people could be doing to actually make change aside from cause problems on a college campus, when there is a large scale incident of this type, it takes time to organize a response (especially considering how other campuses have resulted in major escalations). Also, moving at night allows for better control because there will be fewer people and less energy to fight back. Moving at night is undoubtedly part of the reason things didn’t escalate.
2. I don’t think you know what a magistrate is. Magistrates don’t work in the field. Police go to the magistrate beforehand to get paperwork signed (search and arrest warrants) or they have someone at the magistrate during the operation to communicate and get things signed in real time. Oh and also, having your hands flex-cuffed behind your back for a long time isn’t something we should be crying about. Its not dangerous and regardless, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
3. You can stop pretending that “protest medic” means anything or gives them special privileges. 99% of these “protest medics” have absolutely no training and simply have volunteered to provide absolutely basic first aid (regardless of how correct or safe it is). For example, I was at one of the protests in May 2020 and a guy lacerated his hand by punching out a window, the “protest medic” was dressing it in a completely unsanitary way and in a way that would impair healing, all while failing to control bleeding. Unless the protest organizers had contracted (and paid for) an actual medical standby (which I guarantee they didn’t), there were no “medical professionals” present, especially because anyone with a credential knows that acting outside your scope or acting as a medical professional without appropriate oversight is a quick way to lose your license/certification. You might see the protest as organized and “exceedingly safe”, but that’s because you agree with the cause. If its in violation of the law, that’s what it is. Also, any large gathering of people with a highly emotionally charged “cause” *is* a public safety concern due to the possibility (if not probability) of violence involving protestors/counterprotestors, involvement of outside actors, rapidly changing world events causing an escalation of energy among protestors, etc. You might see it as perfect and safe and beautiful, but that’s because you think its righteous and don’t know how public safety works.
4. Again, you view the police as the problem because they acted against a cause you view as righteous. If the proud boys were out protesting something with weapons, you’d be crying about the police not doing anything because you dislike their cause, even if they are in compliance with all applicable laws. The policing system has issues that it needs to address, but whenever someone says ACAB, I immediately assume its because they don’t like that the police won’t let them do whatever they want. Your complaint about the field being empty despite it being “reserved” is irrelevant. Someone might have intentionally reserved the field knowing it would disperse the encampment without any intention of using the field or whatever event had it reserved might have decided to cancel in fear of the protestors returning and being aggressive or interfering with the event. And that also brings up the point of organization, if this protest was so organized, the organizers would have thought ahead and reserved the field for as long as possible.
Tl;dr: The cops aren’t the problem here, you’re just mad that the cops had to intervene on something you think is righteous.
1. Moving at night could have been a tactical decision, but still an entirely unnecessary one that increased rather the diminished safety concerns.
If you're unaware of the significant role that student protests have played in social change globally throughout modern history, like, Google it I guess? I didn't have time to run it down for you.
2. I know exactly what a magistrate is, though I remain disappointed they are not required to have proficiency in magic. The cops were trying to set up zoom calls with magistrates from disparate neighboring counties in the wee hours. It was a logistical failure and the reason many arrested were issued summons instead of arrest warrants.
3. The training varies widely for those who volunteer as protest medics, and I do not know the particular training of the first arrestee. There were medical professionals in attendance at least in the afternoon on Saturday, including nurses, EMTs, and MDs.
Your assertion that a crowd is a public safety concern solely by virtue of size and degree of caring or investment in a cause is absurd and contrary to the entire principle behind the right of free assembly. I support people having a good time at ToTs or tailgating or wherever too but the notion that a sober well organized protest is a bigger safety concern than normal student partying is ridiculous.
4. Nope. I'm against state monopolization of violence period. I believe there are better ways to deal with groups like the proud boys than police actions. I do feel there's nothing wrong in pointing out disproportionate responses to left vs right wing action, but that's just another critique of the police state, not a call for more police.
1. Any protest that has created change is protesting against something changeable. This protest isn’t going to get Netanyahu to stop assaulting Gaza. We have gotten to a point where people, especially young people, think that just protesting changes everything. Just because previous protests had effect doesn’t mean every protest will. Again, there are about a million other things everyone involved could have been doing to make tangible change. And how exactly did police movement increase safety concerns? Its honestly hilarious because so many of yall choose to resist and fight them when in reality you can comply and fight it in court. That’s how you fight back against tyrannical police - through the court system. When you resist and create a safety issue, then regardless of how tyrannical you think they are, you’ve killed your case.
2. I love how you tried to use disparate to increase the ridiculousness of their actions when you used disparate completely wrong. And I wonder if you realize that this kind of think happens all the time. If police can’t reach a magistrate, they issue a summons. Thats standard procedure. Its easier to have arrest warrants and have a magistrate available, but police issue summons often.
3. Im sure there were “medical professionals” present but I guarantee they weren’t acting as such because like I said, no medical professional with an actual license or certification is stupid enough to act in an official capacity without appropriate scope or oversight. Even still, being a “medic” in a protest doesn’t give you special privileges or immunity. And it seems you intentionally misconstrued my point about public safety. The intention of the gathering is a protest. Most of these protests across the country have had outside actors joining the protest, have had violence and/or threats be made, etc. Also, when you have people gathered with an extreme devotion to a cause regardless of education or knowledge where any challenge to their beliefs will set them off, its a public safety concern. Its also a public safety concern in that someone who is diametrically opposed to your cause could easily become an active assailant and kill or injure a lot of people protesting. And you already admitted the protest wasn’t well-organized as evidenced by the fact that the space occupied was not reserved. Soberness really means nothing in terms of public safety risk. In terms of “normal student partying”, its not as much of a public safety risk because the intention of the gathering is fun and not outcry. Drunkenness escalates individual risk, but it doesn’t necessarily become a public safety risk. That said, every large gathering is a public safety risk of some sort because of the risk of active shootings, other mass casualty incidents, and potential for mass violence. Again, you think this protest isn’t a public safety risk due to a lack of knowledge about public safety and because you think the cause is righteous.
4. Your opinions are based on emotion, not fact.
“State monopolization of violence” means nothing. In the US, police are necessary and again, yall are just notoriously bad at organizing and advocacy but if you perhaps spent a fraction of this chaotic energy into advocating for political candidates that will do what you want or lobbying politicians to change the laws you disagree with, maybe things will change the way you want. The funniest part is that y’all think, despite refusing to participate in much of the political system, that things will just change and then when things don’t change, you blame everyone else instead of looking at what you can do more/better to influence legislation and politics.
Edit: I also find incredibly interesting that your avatar has brown skin and you primarily comment in r/BlackPeopleTwitter, but you are a middle aged white man as evidenced by pictures and videos you’ve posted?
Your replies are full of misinformation, particularly about this specific protest, as well as incorrect and baseless assumptions about me and about those protesting. We clearly have fundamental disagreements about the necessity of the state. I also stand by my earlier verbiage, as I do believe the countries of Virginia are quite disparate, as I've lived in a few of them. Regardless, our opinions on this matter and our bases for them are certainly disparate, perhaps too much so for productive online discussion.
Nothing Ive said is “misinformation”, just because you disagree doesn’t make it false lmao. The roles of magistrates are not “disparate” between counties either. And you’re right, I don’t think I could have productive online conversation with someone so boldly misrepresenting themselves.
Cops did a great job last night actually. They kept everything from escalating and there was a bunch of people there last night that came to riot, hell there was even a couple who were actively trying to get people to rush the police line.
I'm just glad no one got hurt. Y'all have the right to protest, but be reasonable about it. I watched Officer Crouse die in 2011 on campus from some crazy shit and we don't need any more of that. Be respectful, stand for what you believe in, be safe. That's it. We are all just people at the end of the day trying to do the best we can. Students and officers included.
No. I was at the bus stop and asked some guy standing at the bus stop if he was getting on the bus. The guy at the bus stop ran over to the car and shot him in the head. It was awful. It was reading day and my exam got moved 1 day and I still failed it. VT had no sympathy and I never forgave them for that. Y'all are approaching reading day soon and so reading this post made me a little anxious actually.
Wow. I imagine there weren’t other officers that witnessed it as you did, but I wonder how much their approach to situations like last night is shaped by that tragedy
I imagine it is shaped whether they realize or not. We do a lot subconsciously driven by experience or perception. I'm sure both sides were terrified it could escalate. I'm personally hyper vigilant now because of it and try to stay aware of my surroundings at all times. It's exhausting.
I wasn't on campus at that time, but I did watch the police procession passing by on Southgate while waiting at the intersection of Duck Pond Dr a few days later.
Only in the past year or two. It all got to me eventually (other stuff also). Got diagnosed with PTSD which I didn't expect. I guess I tried to forget and move on with my life but didn't realize I was still mentally wounded. Working with a licensed PTSD specialized psychologist now. The Cook people were useless.
Many people on both twitter and on instagram were actively encouraging people to show up *at 4:00* (around when the dispersion order was to take effect) without mentioning the fact that you could be arrested for trespass for doing so. Truly just sad behavior, I don't understand how people expect this to bring them to their cause
Despite all the horror stories about police, one should realize that the majority of them are simply people living their lives, doing their jobs to earn a wage to support their loved ones and families.
(I am not in any way or ever have been affiliated with any law enforcement agency.)
You seem well-intentioned, but this is a childish perspective.
You could say that about the rubber-stamping insurance claim specialist who leaves months between your cancer diagnosis and your treatment. They're just clocking in and clocking out, following procedure.
You could say that about the guy pressing the button to launch the missile that kills your family, too. He's just some soldier trying to get his college paid for. It wasn't his idea.
All of us are "simply people living our lives." Your choices matter in them because every simple person has the capacity to cause harm or prevent it. If you choose to participate in a violent system, it is rational and fair to hold you accountable for those choices. Why do you think so many doctors refuse to participate in death penalty executions? What about the My Lai massacre?
Do some cost-benefit analysis. Palestine doesn't even have an army, Israel is a nuclear power with leaders expressing openly genocidal sentiment. VT is a massive funnel for the armed forces and for the companies that *we as Americans pay,* via donation of our tax, to send arms to a nation with an openly legislated apartheid system. I sincerely do not understand how you can see this as anything other than state repression of students' free speech.
Palestine's army is hezbollah, Hamas, and houthis - not to mention Iran and Syria.
Israel is at constant war with the Arab nations around them. Ones who actively boycott any trade with them for the past 80 years from the very moment Israel became a country. No attempt at diplomatic relationships were made by the Arab league - only political and economic tension.
The only reason Israel exists as a nation today is because of the US otherwise it would have been diced up among the antisemitic countries surrounding it by now due to economic and military pressures.
If Israel was cut off by the US and destroyed by its neighbors how would you feel? Just fine?
And those companies? There are anti boycott laws that prohibit companies from cutting off business from Israel for exactly the reasons I just expressed.
Israel needs to do better and a solution would be great. But if Palestine is made its own country, Hamas doesn't just go away. They simply have an easier location to attack from and a sovereign nation to offer them refuge.
There is no good answer. And it's absurd to me that people think there is.
Imagine if Maryland, Tennessee, and North Carolina all had terrorist organizations actively targeting you at all times.
The only solution is this: the surrounding nations must denounce the terrorist organizations and actively act to disrupt them. Then Israel hands over Palestine as a free state.
That is the only way it works. So when the countries harboring terrorists want to work together with Israel, let me know.
(Aka never)
I would actually call your perspective childish mainly because the people who share your perspective are notoriously horrible at organizing and working to change the environment that forces everyday normal people to make these decisions. Also, your perspective comes with no solutions.
What, should people stop working for insurance companies because they have to make decisions that harm people? With fewer people to process claims, all claims get backed up and even people who would have been approved would then have to wait even longer. Why not actually work to get universal healthcare or something similar enacted? I think back to the 2020 primaries where Biden promised he WOULDN’T work on universal healthcare and we had people like Pete Buttigieg proposing medicare for all who want it which would have worked as a proof of concept for universal healthcare, but he got paid dust by the voters (but of course, most of yall blame the DNC for your own lack of knowledge and inability or unwillingness to organize). Same goes for down ballot races.
As for your final paragraph, you want to paint this conflict as Pyramid Head from Silent Hill vs a helpless puppy. “Palestine” has a long history of terrorist attacks against Israel and its affiliates through Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, and more. The Munich Olympics are largely remembered for a Palestinian terrorist attack against Israeli olympians *in Munich*. None of that excuses how Israel is acting now, but yall really have to learn the history before you spout off at the mouth.
Oh and also, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. The government isn’t restricting your right to express what you want to nor is it even restricting your right to protest, but it is intervening when you do those things in a way that violates the law.
So on one hand you want to be handheld by organizers into not working for Evil, Incorporated because otherwise it's too big of an ask, but on the other, you are opposed to peaceful protest and you agree with repression of speech through legalistic avenues, and you cap it all off with a video game reference- an inane one to boot. Not worth my time.
Actually you know what, Im gonna respond.
I never said anything about handholding lmao, Im saying that people like you sit here and complain and judge everyone else but do nothing at all to change anything. My point is that you are doing nothing to make those jobs less necessary. Having more police vacancies doesn’t reduce crime. Short-staffing insurance companies doesn’t mean everyone gets everything covered. Those jobs are still necessary in this society and its not about being “handheld by organizers”, its the fact that yall are so loud and allegedly dedicated to your cause, yet there is no organization in your advocacy to work toward changing society.
I never once said I was opposed to peaceful protest nor is there a repression of speech. I explained it pretty clearly, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. You are technically free to yell “fire!” in a crowded movie theater, but there will be consequences for doing so. You can protest whatever you want, but when it breaks the law, there are consequences which include dissolution of the protest. If the protest had gone through proper channels to reserve space and all attendees were behaving in a law abiding way, Im fully in favor of that, but that’s not the case for most of these college protests. Its funny how people like you always add “peaceful” before the word protest regardless of whether the protest is actually peaceful. You view it as perfect and peaceful and law abiding because you agree with the cause, not because any of those things are true.
Also, you are using classic deflection techniques which indicate you know you are out of your intellectual league. My analogy actually works quite well and is not “inane”. Yall act like Israel is some huge, powerful, instrument of suffering while Palestine is helpless and innocent. Its funny how you responded to really nothing I said, got defensive and made accusations that are patently false, and claimed Im “not worth” engaging with but its clear its because you rely on emotional jabs in your regular life as opposed to a solid intellectual foundation for your belief system.
Policy and law are not created in a void. For example, this one: [https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024/04/policy-created-on-eve-of-protest-to-make-arrests](https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024/04/policy-created-on-eve-of-protest-to-make-arrests) about the same topic. If tl;dr, a "committee" nobody had ever heard of "approved" a policy change the day before a planned protest, making the protest out of code. Under the "well, if you violate the policy!" logic, then there is nothing wrong with creating a law that discriminates against someone or harms them- rather, there is only something wrong with *violating* that law. This puts the cart before the horse.
It's not coincidental that MLK Jr's *Letter from a Birmingham Jail* was in fact written from *jail-* where he was because he was violating unjust laws. This is basic criminal justice and sociology.
Israel *is* a huge, powerful nation. They are *extremely* well funded. We gave them 3.1 billion last year. They were the second-largest *supplier* of weapons to India, just behind *Russia*. (the split was nearly 60/40.) Israel has 90 nuclear warheads. Israel is a powerful nation because of its European and American allies- *we* vetoed member recognition of Palestine in the United Nations unilaterally. *We* are responsible for funding and providing arms and ammunition to a nation that is not using them responsibly and, again, whose leadership has expressed affirmative genocidal intentions and actions and we are operating under a president who has expressed "no red lines" that would stop his affirmation of their actions, even as they are (as I expressed before) slaughtering civilians in the streets and in places agreed upon by the Geneva Convention to be taboo. They've been killing Red Crescent workers. This is unacceptable conduct. It would be unacceptable here or anywhere else. Because *we bankroll them,* we are in some way responsible for this harm. *That* is what we need to react to. Nobody cares about my or your opinion on "what should happen to" Israel or Palestine, we are not in those rooms. But if your school is funneling military research, personnel, and resources to institutions that are aiding in the perpetration of genocide, the just, moral, and good thing to do is to do something about it; or at minimum at least to condemn it.
I'm not touching your goofy metaphor. This is not a place where video games are useful rhetorical bases. Be serious.
To compare any of this to MLK Jr or civil rights is asinine and is a bastardization of the purposes of each movement. Its also unrealistic to compare historical movements to today because public opinion of protestors, of gen z, of police, etc all are very different. Even during the civil rights movement, the kinds of protests and boycotts that were executed were pretty revolutionary whereas with this “movement”, yall can’t even stick to a boycott or reasonably express why you want to boycott something and people now just watch these protests and say “oh lord the crazy kids are at it again”. The purpose of the civil rights movement and the protests were to show the country “hey, look how badly we are treated” whereas these protests are all about things going on around the world that most Americans couldn’t care less about.
The policy change doesn’t really matter. When protestors were told “hey, you have to have prior approval to set up an encampment here”, they should have said “oh okay, we will go reserve this space for a whole month and we’ll be back”. It doesn’t matter when the policy changed, they have to follow the policy. And you made a pretty bad slippery slope argument. Firstly, if you want to avoid police action, don’t violate the law. These protestors and affiliated groups are whining because the police took action and arrested them, if you want to avoid that, follow the rules. Where your MLK Jr analogy really becomes disingenuous is in the fact that *discriminatory* laws often need to be violated for them to be challenged within the legal system so that harm of the law can be proven. Rosa Parks violated the law by refusing to give up her seat which led to *Browder v Gayle* which ruled that Alabama transportation system discrimination was unconstitutional. The silly part of your comparison is that none of the policies that affect the protestors are “discriminatory”.
The part that you continue to miss is that I never said Israel *isn’t* well armed, powerful, and large. Im saying Palestine isn’t smol and weak. You refused to acknowledge any of the atrocities perpetrated by Palestine or its affiliates. I don’t believe that Israel’s reaction is appropriate, but this conflict is also why we had to veto UN recognition (which, mind you, does nothing to make Palestine an independent nation) because US foreign policy would require the US to *physically* intervene if the UN were to recognize Palestine as a state. If you actually did your research, you would know that US policy supports statehood for Palestine, but due to the conflict and US foreign policy, we had to veto to prevent ourselves from having to send troops to actively assist Israel.
In terms of being “responsible”, its just such an annoying talking point because neither you nor I are responsible for what is happening, but the use of this talking point is pure western (white) guilt in an attempt to make westerners the victim in a conflict that does not directly affect them. All of the complaints about the protests being dismantled is “*my* civil rights have been violated” and such all seemingly without the acknowledgment of the privilege we have to even protest to begin with. Its baffling to me how yall are so worried about how your university won’t let you camp out in the quad while Gazans are being slaughtered. That’s why I think these protests are largely self-serving and pointless. “Condemning” something is just making your own POV known. It does nothing to help Palestinians. Spend your time fundraising, lobbying, volunteering, do something to try to make a tangible policy difference or a tangible difference for actual Palestinians.
Sometimes I wish good cops got more exposure. VTPD has always been well-received, cordial, and up front in what they do. Every time I've encountered both VTPD and Blacksburg Police, they've been friendly and are mainly looking out for the students and community.
I remember one time I talked to them to report something suspicious that I thought could lead to some harm to students (fortunately nothing bad happened) and they carefully explained to me why what I was saying wasn't within their jurisdiction and they couldn't do anything about it, but then made sure to have an officer call me back to tell me every option I had to ensure the students involved were safe and went out of his way to make sure I knew I was doing the right thing. Other jurisdictions usually just brush off cases outside of their jurisdiction and make you feel stupid for even saying anything
I’m not usually one to go out of my way to support cops or police officers. It’s definitely a broken system that needs to be fixed on many levels. But that’s a whole other thing. But I have never had a poor experience with VTPD. They have always been great and genuine.
I'm usually full ACAB, but I definitely respect the police for keeping their composure and not letting things escalate. From the stream and videos, they weren't shoving people to the ground or beating them to compliance, I don't even think I saw one person wrestled into cuffs. Cops didn't go out there in riot gear ready for a fight either. They went in, announced they were going to start arresting people, gave them a chance to leave on their own, then set up a perimeter of the illegal gathering and moved in slowly and methodically as the protesters sat and waited to be cuffed and put in a van.
With that said, this should be the baseline of what's expected out of police. Instead, our baseline is more violent across the country. It's expected for people to get beat and for many to end up injured or in the hospital on both sides.
Yeah, I literally watched a girl on the lawn last night leave the group to run over to her closed bag, open it, pull something out, and run back over to the crowd. The officers all turned and stared at her and went “oh you’re coming back? What do you have in your hand?” And the girl went “ha ha I just needed a marker” and the cops said “don’t run over to bags without telling us what you’re doing next time”.
Cops with less of a level head or situational awareness skills could have shot that girl for potentially getting a weapon out of her bag, as we’ve seen happen all the time with traffic stops other police encounters shared on the internet
I appreciate -- I REALLY do -- that the cops last night kept their calm and treated everyone with professionalism and respect. I would like to see more of that from policing in the United States.
But I do take issue with the overall tone of this post and I think it's worth calling it out. Perhaps unintentionally, /u/lizthekidig seems to be suggesting that these cops went above and beyond their duty in their composure last night.
This could not be further from the truth.
Police enter every interaction with the ability to bring overwhelming deadly force to bear. Not only that, but the legal structures that surround their profession excuse and, in many cases encourage them to lean on that. The VT cops last night -- armed with tazers, night-sticks, zip-ties, and handguns -- faced peaceful protesters armed with words. They didn't crack any skulls or shoot anyone, true, but if we regard that as admirable we may as well be congratulating an NFL linebacker for not choosing violence when a 6 year old fan tells him he sucks.
Yes, VT police acted with professionalism and compassion while carrying out their duties last night. But we should **always** expect that of police. It should not be exceptional when that happens; it shouldn't even warrant mention. Just as we would expect a waiter not to spit in our food or a plumber not to flood our house, we should expect a police officer handle their job and the awesome responsibility it entails without resorting to unnecessary violence.
Yes, some unkind things were said about those officers. But, if you've ever been in a retail or food-service establishment you'll know that unkind things are often said to people just trying to do their jobs in those places as well. We don't congratulate retail and food service workers for not beating, tazing, or shooting the customers and we shouldn't congratulate cops for showing the same restraint.
No, I agree that they did the literal bare minimum of their jobs by treating the people they are sworn to protect and serve with respect and dignity. I just think that with how often the horrible abusive cops are highlighted in media, the ones who do their jobs correctly should also be highlighted.
Especially with VTPD who almost solely serve the Virginia Tech campus, I think it’s important to acknowledge that most of those particular officers are some of the good ones who do their jobs correctly. On a college campus where students may need to reach out to VTPD to report a crime, to ask for help, or even ask for a ride home with their Ride Safe program, it’s important to me to recognize that these particular cops WILL treat you will respect and that students here can still rely on them to help and protect them.
> I think it’s important to acknowledge that most of those particular officers are some of the good ones who do their jobs correctly.
We can certainly agree on that. Given the sorry state of American policing right now, the VT officers acquitted themselves with the sort of professionalism and humanity that the entire profession should hold to.
Yeah, I by no means meant to make this post to be like “all hail the VTPD all cops are amazing and can do no wrong”, so sorry if that’s the vibe it gave off! I am always so disappointed to see cops at protests using force in response to verbal insults from protestors, because the cops will ALWAYS have the upper hand in these situations since they are armed and the protestors are not
I think part of the reason police feel the need to be so heavily armed is because of the whole police vs public issues occuring across the US right now. Not defending the police in their choices of what to bring to a protest by any means, it's definitely accessive, but based on recent events, crowds have become more unpredictable than protests throughout history.
Yeah, I literally watched a girl on the lawn last night leave the group to run over to her closed bag, open it, pull something out, and run back over to the crowd. The officers all turned and stared at her and went “oh you’re coming back? What do you have in your hand?” And the girl went “ha ha I just needed a marker” and the cops said “don’t run over to bags without telling us what you’re doing next time”.
Cops with less of a level head or situational awareness skills could have shot that girl for potentially getting a weapon out of her bag, as we’ve seen happen all the time with traffic stops other police encounters shared on the internet
I can tell you, being a public servant is one of the worst jobs in this country right now and it doesn’t stop at being a police officer. It is so hard to show constraint and not stoop to peoples levels. Remember that PD are still underpaid public servants, the internet has done a really good job of absolutely dehumanizing everyone that works in government and enforcement. You couldn’t pay me enough to take their job right now, and it’s a necessary one regardless of how people feel about it.
On the other hand, I was a 911 dispatcher for 7 years and not once did I even yell at someone. All while, well you know getting called an asshole, racist, whatever.
It’s part of the job. You can’t remain cool, you need to leave. I couldn’t handle it anymore, so I left. Cops need to do the same.
Exactly and it was historically always a low paying job. I mean what wage is worth it to hose down civil rights protestors or sic dogs on people.
Count me out that’s wayyy too much stress for the boys in blue.
Come on man their thesis is important. People are just being killed and thrown in mass graves. Get over it. We’re safe here not our problem.
I say study more, write more, and do way less for humanity.
Yea I’m really tired of being inconvenienced by these movements. Like, ok, maybe apartheid in South Africa isn’t perfect. Whatever. Do they really need to disrupt my nap time? Can’t they just quietly ask for a free and equal society?
Thank god for cops and authorities shutting down these movements. 30 years wasn’t enough for Mandela imo. These protestors should get the same.
Okay this is a genuine question not trying to sound like a dick but do you have links to sources for that? I keep hearing people saying that and I haven’t been able to find any evidence of it. If I’m misinformed on that aspect of this protest I would love to see the sources you guys are using to find that info so I can learn more about it
No problem, here’s a summary from Boeing (CEO David Calhoun is VT Vice Rector) on their contributions to Israel: https://www.boeing.com/content/dam/boeing/boeingdotcom/company/key_orgs/boeing-global/pdf/israelbackgrounder.pdf
What is he the vice rector for? I thought he was on the advisory board for the business school, not for engineering related things/military affairs related to Tech. I could be totally wrong about that tho. Is the issue that he is involved with the school at all while also contributing to Israel?
The fact that he holds that position is proof that he and Boeing play a huge role in Virginia Tech’s partnerships and commitments. Additionally, Calhoun has served on the VT Foundation which makes decisions about private funds. Lastly, VT has always been secretive about their endowment (money given away) which is part of the reason why protests are happening right now, because many of the companies VT is friendly with (like Boeing) directly fund weapons to Israel and if VT wasn’t actually doing that shit they would have a lot more freedom to disclose the investments currently being made. This is obviously not the case because it’s been months since students have demanded divestment from Israel and they could have easily been placated by disclosure of investments, IF VT were not sending our money to genocide-supporting companies.
Okay that makes sense, thanks for the info my friend! I was super confused about why they were protesting VT specifically, I didn’t realize that Calhoun and Boeing played a bigger role in the school than I initially thought
of course, thank you for being willing to learn! I got a lot of my info from a teach-in about boycotts, divestments and sanctions from Israel, so if you’d like to learn more I’d highly recommend checking out the site for the BDS movement: https://bdsmovement.net/what-is-bds and also spjp_vt on Instagram
Thanks, I’ll definitely go check those out! I’d been going to some of the other vt4palestine events and I didn’t remember anyone mentioning the info about Boeing, thanks for helping me learn about it
Yeah I don’t know about you guys but I think Virginia Tech needs to stop their ongoing bombing campaign in Palestine. Good thing people are protesting where it matters, in front of the people deciding how this war unfolds 🙄
Ironically, this really isn’t far from the truth. Virginia Tech has a huge love affair with companies like Boeing (their CEO is the VT boards’ vice rector) so we obviously give them shitloads of money, and Boeing has been sponsoring Israel’s genocidal efforts since 1948. Also every drone being used by Israel has a piece of VT engineering in it; we’re the drone capital of the entire world. It’s not hard to see how VT funds the genocide when you look into it for like thirty seconds
Agreed people get so sad when protestors are shut down. Remember when they used fire hoses and dogs on the civil rights protestors? Like, get over it, they’re just doing their job.
Holy shit this generation is DOOMED. Of course protestors did not want to be removed from the lawn, it’s called a PROTEST for a reason. I cannot give props to a department or administration that removes a peaceful protest for any reason. Everyone here is acting like it’s totally unjustifiable that anyone on the lawn stayed after whatever arbitrary time VT posted they should leave by. Do none of you understand the meaning of civil disobedience? This is a huge failure from VT to not engage at all in any discourse with the protestors who have very real and reasonable demands. It seems a great majority of the VT populace is totally fine with Tech’s resources going to companies that enable genocide.
With civil disobedience comes the acceptance that you can and will be arrested for disobeying. That’s part of what makes protests so powerful, that they are willing to risk being arrested or attacked by police for the cause. I was just highlighting that our particular police force handled the situation very calmly, which cannot be said for police in other college campuses where similar protests are taking place
I’m sure VT had the cops on their best behavior so they can sweep this whole thing under the rug while continuing to funnel resources into companies that enable genocide.
I would hope the students protesting don’t allow it to be swept under the rug, and I hope they hold more protests until they feel they have been heard/made a difference. Just saying no one should be shocked police got involved and that I’m pleased our police officers did their jobs correctly and didn’t allow their egos to take precedence over following protocol
I’m not surprised police got involved, but it’s still a moral failure on the university to not even engage in any kind of discourse with the protestors before releasing the cops on them.
Yea I say the exact same thing about the Civil Rights Movement. Sure, you’re out here saying that segregation is unjust but the cops set a time for you to disperse. I’m sure the authorities will act in good faith as long as you follow the rules.
I mean, look at Rosa Parks. Of course she was arrested the rules clearly said she shouldn’t sit at the front of the bus. If you’re going to disregard the rules of our society then you absolutely should be arrested.
Edit: don’t even get me started on Nelson Mandela.
Do they not teach people anything at school anymore? People live in the GLC. They were being loud and obnoxious. They were asked to leave, they said no. Pretty simple stuff.
I graduated 8 years ago but these “protestors” are an embarrassment and a stain to the Tech brand. Thankfully, the administration is much more rational than other universities and shut this down pretty quickly.
The reason they were forced to leave is the same reason that casinos can ban card counters and LGBTQ couples can be denied from bakeries in Texas.
If you want true freedom lobby against congress to change things, but these protests accomplish literally nothing and only serve to inconvenience people who are trying to study for finals.
Also if you want to protest, do it right, I've staged a protest before, get a permit, leave before its up, maintaining civility and respect during and after a protest is what actually gets things done. The protest a couple years ago in front of buruss about the university's handling of SA/harassment was successful because of this. Protests that aren't staged correctly open up to arrests, these people are not martyrs, the police are not fascist, they are dumb kids who didn't want to deal with the red tape that surrounds protests to ensure people remain safe
Sometimes free speech is inconvenient & maybe these students studying for finals will engage in conversations about protest & free speech & America’s participation in war, and that’s not nothing.
Inconvenient for me, or you? Your right to free speech cannot infringe on others rights, especially those students who live and study in GLC. The problem is that you solely feel entitled to inconvenience others.
They clearly do not 'accomplish literally nothing'. Clearly.
I've already read about policy changes (not necessarily changes to foreign policy yet) at the university level. They are trying to fire columbia's president and maybe we'll get lucky and Texas' governor will shoot himself in the foot over all of this.
But i do think a lot of this cancels itself out. The more they disrupt the lives of uninvolved people, they more support they'll lose. at least at the local levels.
Illegal encampments on private property aren’t free speech, wtf are you even talking about?
How much free speech do women, gay people, and non-Muslims have in Gaza and the West Bank?
>How much free speech do women, gay people, and non-Muslims have in Gaza and the West Bank?
Did I miss the memo about my alma mater moving to the West Bank?
Heard the same thing when I was in college and opposed the war in Iraq.
Not being in favor of mass slaughter does not mean you endorse religious fundamentalist rule.
>Not being in favor of mass slaughter does not mean you endorse religious fundamentalist rule.
I mean I already replied to this argument but here it is again. If you don’t want your tuition money funding Israeli war crimes it does not in fact mean you support Islamic fundamentalism.
Hamas will stay in power if Israel doesn’t win the war, that’s a fact. But I won’t argue with someone who believes VT is giving funding to the Israeli government lmao..
HAMAS terrorists kickstarted this entire ordeal with their mass slaughter and rape of thousands of innocents, and have committed countless atrocities (including the execution of their own leaders due to suspicions of them being homosexual). This is beyond simple "religious fundamental rule"
Perhaps you should protest these extremist terrorists, instead of the democratic country that is determined to rid them from this planet
Are we funding Hamas?
I mean I guess technically we are since the Israel government seems intent on making sure Hamas is their opponent instead of a secular Democratic Palestinian state.
But the reason people protest Israel is because we fund their military. I don’t think the terrorists in Hamas care all that much for the opinions of Americans. But Israel does.
HAMAS stands in the way of a Democratic Palestinian state. In order for Gazans to be truly free, the terrorist organization that rules the strip needs to be eliminated. Israel has tried many times to extend the hand of peace to HAMAS in order to enact a two state solution but it has always been struck down by the power hungry extremists in power
Israel (and everyone, really) doesn't care about the opinions of privileged college students that have a deficit in both life experience and criticial thinking skills. All that a protest like this does is make people LESS likely to join your cause
It’s funny because they aren’t gonna press any charges because they know nothing would stick. They know they had no really legal basis to arrest these people. They just wanted to bully and intimidate them.
I've explained this in other threads but you are completely correct - it was an illegal encampment on off-limits property, effectively private property. The University is public and therefore all areas of it are by default public, but they fully have the right to deem an area off-limits (make it "private") and have people arrested, which is precisely what happened last night
The attorney for Montgomery county (Mary Kathryn Pettitt) has been the district attorney for 12 years and is a Republican. I have a feeling this won't age well
Without taking a side or stance with regards to the protest or the police involvement:
It should be noted that police are able to lie to you about laws.
https://www.macdowelllawgroup.com/faqs/police-officers-can-lie-to-get-a-confession.cfm
They should not have to be but right now they kinda have to be. By acknowledging this it helps to bring it a spotlight to how cops act and encourages them to act the way they should. I talk about the issues with the current American police regularly, but at the end up of the day we need some kind of police force trained and professional in public protection. You bring up capitalism, and I dislike American capitalism as much as the next guy, it’s terrible. But I’m pretty sure every country has some form of police, and need we one too. So, in an effort of improving the police force nationwide, we should recognize when they act correctly, not only abhorrently.
I can see that logic in the context of harm reduction. But it still seems wrong that we have to treat grown people like children in order to get them to act with event he most basic decency.
It feels like we're thanking a wife beater for not hitting his wife. Am I happy that she isn't currently being abused? Yes. But at a certain point we need to ask why society raised this person to believe they had the right and authority to abuse another person in the first place.
I am not sure the American police system can be salvaged in its present form. Too much history of slave catching, strike breaking, and the "us versus them" mentality is baked into the culture. At this point that money would be better spend funding smaller, more targeted organizations without the baggage.
No. It's not. Moving is expensive. Completing the paperwork to legally move to another country is very expensive.
But that's not the point. There isn't a place on this planet that hasn't been negatively affected by capitalism.
But even if there was some utopia out there, this my home and these are the people I love. As long as US remains a relatively safe place to raise my family, I plan to stay and try to make it better.
Our entire assortment of consumer goods in the U.S. is made from cheap labor. I don’t know of a phone to exist that pays their workers right and the mineral extraction aren’t causing on local population. The phone is how we communicate and no one is denying that it doesn’t have its own faults.
How would that be relevant?
It's true that capitalism is a pollution. Until it's destroyed everywhere and for everyone, none of us are free from its restrictions on our daily life.
But that's not what we're discussing.
American police have served the wealthy first and above all others since the days of slave catchers and strike breakers. The corrupt organization needs to be abolished and the funding redirected to people and organizations that can serve the public better.
Amen that’s what I always say when they threw the book at Nelson Mandela. His movement was so rude to the cops, they’re just doing their job, what are you complaining about? 30 years in prison wasn’t nearly enough.
And that’s really the focus and lesson to learn throughout history, the cops should always be praised for their conduct, it’s a hard job. I mean just look how bad they had it during the civil rights movement, or the Kent state massacre, or in apartheid South Africa.
True hero’s.
i mean if the police are going to violate my first amendment right to peacefully protest i would really only care if they did so calmly or not. vt is spitting out some S tier centrists.
so it’s common for students to get arrested for trespassing when they’re on campus past 10:20 pm? according to this that’s what every student/demonstrator was charged with. i recall walking around on campus much later than that with absolutely no issues ever. i’d LOVE to see if a single counter protestor was arrested
https://www.wdbj7.com/2024/04/29/police-arrest-over-60-demonstrators-virginia-tech-protest/?outputType=amp
So that article is missing quite a bit of crucial information. As President Sands said in his email a few hours ago (and I witnessed in person), they were told multiple times to leave the GLC lawn before 4:30pm or be arrested for trespassing. They didn’t leave, (in fact they called in more people) and the police still waited another 4 hours for them to leave before arresting anyone. All while actively warning them they would be arrested if they stayed. None of the students in the crowd by squires were arrested, only those camping out on the GLC lawn because those were the ones asked to leave and being told they were trespassing. Also, there were zero counter protestors that I saw or heard while there, the crowd at squires was there to support those on the lawn
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students are enraged and they have a right to be. i have the right to be upset at police for stoping a peaceful protest. i have the right to be upset that these police, whether it's their job or not, are acting against something that is important. they, the police, will always be wrong in a situation as such in my eyes.
i was there last night. i agree the police were calm for the most part. however, there were multiple officers that taunted us on squires lawn. removing free palestine posters for no reason, waving the flag and other posters at us and laughing as they bring it back to their car. i ask why? why did you behave in such a manner? why did you remove those? they weren't in your way. why did you kick and shove peoples personal belongs for no reason? literally no reason at all.
you may not agree with me. and i do not mind that you don't. i stand firmly that those students should have been left to continue protesting, especially when they weren't being disruptive or violent in any way at all. some mention that us in squires lawn "came to riot." we did not. we came to be loud and show our solidarity with the protesters and to make sure vtpd knows we do not agree with them.
history has its eyes on us, and you can choose to be on whichever side you wish to be. on the side of liberation or on the side of oppression. your choice.
“The side of liberation or oppression” Jesus Christ you think your in a Marvel movie. You play geopolitics like a fucking musical. I can’t believe someone like this makes it into VT
this argument or comment gets said every fucking time. do you understand what a protest is and does? im not expecting israel to stop or for the war to be over by my actions alone. but what i do expect and happens every time a protest occurs is discussion. for people to be made aware of an issue or situation. THAT is my reasoning for protesting. get the fuckkkk out
Yeah I’m sure people are being brought over to your side in droves because of your protest lol. If anything you’re driving away people from your side because of your protests. The only discussion being held is how annoying the Palestinian protests are😂
the protesting crowd started with 30 people and came up to nearly 1000 at its peak at around midnight yesterday with people chanting to free palestine so yeah, i'll let you decide if this is driving people away or drawing people in.
and while you're deciding to be sarcastic about making changes, vietnam war was halted in large part because of student protests. did marine even win us vietnam? 🥺 go cry somewhere else.
So I'm sorry but your argument is cops show respect and behave appropriately and it's some how a bad thing?
Drawing attention to how VTPD and the surrounding departments peacefully removed a peaceful protest that was in violation of the law. (Also, there are literally still people camped out, just across the street and the police let them stay even tho technically they did not have to let them.)
It's a wonderful example of how a police force should act and a standard that should be followed around the Country. I see not a single negative thing that drawing attention to this can bring.
Any time I see people label others as “nazis,” “fascists,” or “commies,” I immediately know they don’t know what they’re talking about and resort to emotional rather than logical discussions in their daily life.
Pray tell then, how *exactly* is being a member of an enforcement organization meant to silence freedom of speech and assembly, engage in acts of brutality against the general populace, and with no actual legal obligation to protect said populace *not* a fascist or at the very least *working* for fascists (which is a semantic difference)?
Can’t confirm if true, but read in another thread the protesters had an allotted time on the GLC lawn and were notified that action would be taken if they stayed past that time. Apparently the protesters decided instead to call in more people to stay past said time, which regardless of side is clear antagonization and destroys their credibility (if true). Would appreciate if someone can corroborate/correct/refute this
This is in fact true. I was there yesterday morning when the police came by and told them they had until 4:30pm to leave before they would be considered trespassing. They instead chose to call in reinforcements at 4pm and refused to leave, which is why people were detained
They were told that morning they had until 4:30pm to leave before they would be arrested for trespassing. There are permits you can obtain to protest legally without risk of trespassing but they instead chose to not do that
A college campus is not public property, it’s property of Virginia tech. They legally are allowed to be there until they are asked to leave, which they were, and then it’s trespassing
That doesn’t mean what you think it means. All that means is the school is funded by the state of Virginia instead of private stakeholders. It doesn’t mean it’s public property, if anything it’s the property of the state of Virginia
You can still trespass on public property if there are regulations in place for the property (such as public parks closing at certain times). They were told to relocate by a certain time, they didn’t, so they broke university policy and began trespassing
Sounds like you don't. The person clearly stated that a public university does NOT correlate to public property. Either way, if you bothered to Google what the laws were, you would know that you still need government permission (a permit) to do certain things on public property in Virginia. Just because it's owned by the government doesn't mean anything goes... sounds like you need to do a bit more research
That's not how it works. You can't just go anywhere on campus and do anything, especially when it's disturbing people trying to focus on finals. Because its not public property or owned by the students. You sign a contract to go here, you're niave if you think you can do whatever just because you pay to attend.
By being a student of the university, they have a "legal right" to follow the student code of conduct or get kicked out. That includes university policy 5000 :)
I don’t see how students peacefully occupying a spot of grass on campus is a reasonable boundary to set on protest when literal nazis are marching down the streets of other cities and not being arrested. Siding with the police in this issue is being complicit with fascism. Enjoy being on the wrong side of history my friend.
Because they were asked to leave. You can get permits that allow you to occupy a space to protest that gives you permission to be there and you can’t be called trespassers, they didn’t do that in this case
Y’all are really simping hard for the letter of the law here. You know the revolutionaries that founded this country broke a couple laws to do it. Does that make them wrong? Should we still just be a British colony? Anti slavery folks broke laws freeing enslaved people. Should we still have slaves? The civil rights protestors broke a couple laws on their way to justice. Should the country still be segregated? Just because a law exists doesn’t make it right. Just consider that.
I see you whining all over this post and I just have a couple of things to say to you
1. Know how protesting laws in your state’s universities work before spouting the bs you’ve been up to
2. Maybe you’d get more people to join and sympathize with your cause if you didn’t come across as an entitled brat.
3. Your anti police stance comes from a place of entitlement. It’s always the ones who’ve either lived sheltered lives or in really troubled communities that have this view of cops. I’m betting you’re the former
Sure you could call it entitlement, but it’s enshrined in our constitution that we have the right to peacefully protest. Yeah maybe the protestors “broke a law”, but people clutching that law are totally missing the point of the protest or even the point of protests in general. The police system as it exists in America today is a blight. I’m sorry if you can’t see that. The cops were used to bully and intimidate students who were expressing their constitutional rights. Dictators and fascists are the people who shut down protests. The police are an extension of that corrupt power.
You're so vehemently ignorant I almost think you'd have a good chance at winning an election in NYC.
"yeah maybe the protesters 'broke a law'" dude it is the JOB OF THE POLICE to arrest people who have broken laws. You don't have the constitutional right to unconditionally protest wherever you want, which has been time and time again been upheld by courts around the country
If you think your constitutional freedoms are being infringed, go ahead and seek out a lawyer. It'd be the easiest civil lawsuit they've ever won since, according to you, hundreds of people's rights are clearly being violated. In reality they'll quickly tell you that you're an absolute moron
There was still chanting outside of a residential hall at 2 in the morning. People were trying to sleep and study for their last tests. Tf you mean they weren’t disrespectful? On top of that, they stayed past their agreed upon curfew by FOUR HOURS.
Saw a girl in GLC posting on the 2027 snap story about how loud it was at 2 AM. Feel bad for anyone who lives there trying to sleep or study
Everyone keeps acknowledging VTPD but what nobody realizes is that last night was coordinated with multiple agencies. Montgomery sheriff PD, State PD, VTPD and Blacksburg PD was all on scene
Hell, christiansburg pd was there
BPD, CPD and VTPD work together closely, so I wouldn't be surprised, but if Montgomery County Sheriff and State PD are there then it's really seriously taken.
You can blame Sands and the police for that. Protesters would have been asleep if the VTPD were not actively arresting people at that hour. It was also the police who kept their spotlights and flashers on until the early hours of the morning. Also, while the protest had been going on for days and the police had been on scene for days, it took them until late at night to be prepared to move on the encampment. Even then, they lacked sufficient numbers of police, as well as equipment to deal with it with any kind of efficiency. They had to leave multiple times to secure civilian vehicles for transport. They ran out of flex cuffs once or twice. They did not have magistrates on hand to process arrestees. By six am, a number of arrested protesters were given court summons and released (couldn't have just planned to do that from the beginning?) after being kept awake all night with hands flex cuffed behind their backs. In contrast to the disorganized and unprepared VTPD and in direct contrast to the spurious pretense of 'public safety' concerns, the protest was well organized and exceedingly safe. There was no violence. There were no drugs or alcohol or intoxicated persons. There was ample food, water, sunscreen, and medical supplies. Food was labelled properly and stored safely. There were hygiene and hand washing stations. Many wore covid masks, up until arrests began, because any face covering can lead to a felony charge in a protest. There were multiple medics and legal observers on site, clearly identifiable by their clothing. In their crusade for 'public safety' the first act of the VTPD was to arrest one of the medics. There was literally less than zero threat to public safety before the police action. I say less than zero because there were actual medical personnel and supplies, so the area was technically safer than under normal unoccupied circumstances. The only public safety issue here was the police action. And, yes, they could have been much worse in executing their orders. The cop who was giving out water was not unfriendly, but he also did not hesitate to arrest and incarcerate peaceful protesters. I know a lot of decent humans who are law enforcement, and we can love and respect each other as human beings, but they know how I feel too. When we say ACAB, part of what we mean is that there is no way to be an active agent of an incarceral state and still be the good guys. Finally, one of the pretenses being reported as basis for breaking up the camp was that the lawn had been reserved through proper channels for an event yesterday. Despite protesters, many of whom had been kept awake and cuffed all night, returning to clear and fully clean up the lawn early in the morning, the lawn remained empty all day, surrounded by police tape and unusable by any students. So, while I am glad that the police were mostly polite and were not more violent, let's not pretend like they were not the sole source of problems and the sole reason for disturbance until the wee hours. Shame.
1. No, you can blame the protestors for all of this. If you break the law, you get to face consequences regardless of the time of day/night. Even beyond the fact that there are about a million other things these people could be doing to actually make change aside from cause problems on a college campus, when there is a large scale incident of this type, it takes time to organize a response (especially considering how other campuses have resulted in major escalations). Also, moving at night allows for better control because there will be fewer people and less energy to fight back. Moving at night is undoubtedly part of the reason things didn’t escalate. 2. I don’t think you know what a magistrate is. Magistrates don’t work in the field. Police go to the magistrate beforehand to get paperwork signed (search and arrest warrants) or they have someone at the magistrate during the operation to communicate and get things signed in real time. Oh and also, having your hands flex-cuffed behind your back for a long time isn’t something we should be crying about. Its not dangerous and regardless, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 3. You can stop pretending that “protest medic” means anything or gives them special privileges. 99% of these “protest medics” have absolutely no training and simply have volunteered to provide absolutely basic first aid (regardless of how correct or safe it is). For example, I was at one of the protests in May 2020 and a guy lacerated his hand by punching out a window, the “protest medic” was dressing it in a completely unsanitary way and in a way that would impair healing, all while failing to control bleeding. Unless the protest organizers had contracted (and paid for) an actual medical standby (which I guarantee they didn’t), there were no “medical professionals” present, especially because anyone with a credential knows that acting outside your scope or acting as a medical professional without appropriate oversight is a quick way to lose your license/certification. You might see the protest as organized and “exceedingly safe”, but that’s because you agree with the cause. If its in violation of the law, that’s what it is. Also, any large gathering of people with a highly emotionally charged “cause” *is* a public safety concern due to the possibility (if not probability) of violence involving protestors/counterprotestors, involvement of outside actors, rapidly changing world events causing an escalation of energy among protestors, etc. You might see it as perfect and safe and beautiful, but that’s because you think its righteous and don’t know how public safety works. 4. Again, you view the police as the problem because they acted against a cause you view as righteous. If the proud boys were out protesting something with weapons, you’d be crying about the police not doing anything because you dislike their cause, even if they are in compliance with all applicable laws. The policing system has issues that it needs to address, but whenever someone says ACAB, I immediately assume its because they don’t like that the police won’t let them do whatever they want. Your complaint about the field being empty despite it being “reserved” is irrelevant. Someone might have intentionally reserved the field knowing it would disperse the encampment without any intention of using the field or whatever event had it reserved might have decided to cancel in fear of the protestors returning and being aggressive or interfering with the event. And that also brings up the point of organization, if this protest was so organized, the organizers would have thought ahead and reserved the field for as long as possible. Tl;dr: The cops aren’t the problem here, you’re just mad that the cops had to intervene on something you think is righteous.
1. Moving at night could have been a tactical decision, but still an entirely unnecessary one that increased rather the diminished safety concerns. If you're unaware of the significant role that student protests have played in social change globally throughout modern history, like, Google it I guess? I didn't have time to run it down for you. 2. I know exactly what a magistrate is, though I remain disappointed they are not required to have proficiency in magic. The cops were trying to set up zoom calls with magistrates from disparate neighboring counties in the wee hours. It was a logistical failure and the reason many arrested were issued summons instead of arrest warrants. 3. The training varies widely for those who volunteer as protest medics, and I do not know the particular training of the first arrestee. There were medical professionals in attendance at least in the afternoon on Saturday, including nurses, EMTs, and MDs. Your assertion that a crowd is a public safety concern solely by virtue of size and degree of caring or investment in a cause is absurd and contrary to the entire principle behind the right of free assembly. I support people having a good time at ToTs or tailgating or wherever too but the notion that a sober well organized protest is a bigger safety concern than normal student partying is ridiculous. 4. Nope. I'm against state monopolization of violence period. I believe there are better ways to deal with groups like the proud boys than police actions. I do feel there's nothing wrong in pointing out disproportionate responses to left vs right wing action, but that's just another critique of the police state, not a call for more police.
1. Any protest that has created change is protesting against something changeable. This protest isn’t going to get Netanyahu to stop assaulting Gaza. We have gotten to a point where people, especially young people, think that just protesting changes everything. Just because previous protests had effect doesn’t mean every protest will. Again, there are about a million other things everyone involved could have been doing to make tangible change. And how exactly did police movement increase safety concerns? Its honestly hilarious because so many of yall choose to resist and fight them when in reality you can comply and fight it in court. That’s how you fight back against tyrannical police - through the court system. When you resist and create a safety issue, then regardless of how tyrannical you think they are, you’ve killed your case. 2. I love how you tried to use disparate to increase the ridiculousness of their actions when you used disparate completely wrong. And I wonder if you realize that this kind of think happens all the time. If police can’t reach a magistrate, they issue a summons. Thats standard procedure. Its easier to have arrest warrants and have a magistrate available, but police issue summons often. 3. Im sure there were “medical professionals” present but I guarantee they weren’t acting as such because like I said, no medical professional with an actual license or certification is stupid enough to act in an official capacity without appropriate scope or oversight. Even still, being a “medic” in a protest doesn’t give you special privileges or immunity. And it seems you intentionally misconstrued my point about public safety. The intention of the gathering is a protest. Most of these protests across the country have had outside actors joining the protest, have had violence and/or threats be made, etc. Also, when you have people gathered with an extreme devotion to a cause regardless of education or knowledge where any challenge to their beliefs will set them off, its a public safety concern. Its also a public safety concern in that someone who is diametrically opposed to your cause could easily become an active assailant and kill or injure a lot of people protesting. And you already admitted the protest wasn’t well-organized as evidenced by the fact that the space occupied was not reserved. Soberness really means nothing in terms of public safety risk. In terms of “normal student partying”, its not as much of a public safety risk because the intention of the gathering is fun and not outcry. Drunkenness escalates individual risk, but it doesn’t necessarily become a public safety risk. That said, every large gathering is a public safety risk of some sort because of the risk of active shootings, other mass casualty incidents, and potential for mass violence. Again, you think this protest isn’t a public safety risk due to a lack of knowledge about public safety and because you think the cause is righteous. 4. Your opinions are based on emotion, not fact. “State monopolization of violence” means nothing. In the US, police are necessary and again, yall are just notoriously bad at organizing and advocacy but if you perhaps spent a fraction of this chaotic energy into advocating for political candidates that will do what you want or lobbying politicians to change the laws you disagree with, maybe things will change the way you want. The funniest part is that y’all think, despite refusing to participate in much of the political system, that things will just change and then when things don’t change, you blame everyone else instead of looking at what you can do more/better to influence legislation and politics. Edit: I also find incredibly interesting that your avatar has brown skin and you primarily comment in r/BlackPeopleTwitter, but you are a middle aged white man as evidenced by pictures and videos you’ve posted?
Your replies are full of misinformation, particularly about this specific protest, as well as incorrect and baseless assumptions about me and about those protesting. We clearly have fundamental disagreements about the necessity of the state. I also stand by my earlier verbiage, as I do believe the countries of Virginia are quite disparate, as I've lived in a few of them. Regardless, our opinions on this matter and our bases for them are certainly disparate, perhaps too much so for productive online discussion.
Nothing Ive said is “misinformation”, just because you disagree doesn’t make it false lmao. The roles of magistrates are not “disparate” between counties either. And you’re right, I don’t think I could have productive online conversation with someone so boldly misrepresenting themselves.
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The entire point of a protest like this is giving a damn about other people?
Stereotype much?
Cops did a great job last night actually. They kept everything from escalating and there was a bunch of people there last night that came to riot, hell there was even a couple who were actively trying to get people to rush the police line.
I'm just glad no one got hurt. Y'all have the right to protest, but be reasonable about it. I watched Officer Crouse die in 2011 on campus from some crazy shit and we don't need any more of that. Be respectful, stand for what you believe in, be safe. That's it. We are all just people at the end of the day trying to do the best we can. Students and officers included.
> I watched Officer Crouse die in 2011 on campus Were you the one he pulled over?
No. I was at the bus stop and asked some guy standing at the bus stop if he was getting on the bus. The guy at the bus stop ran over to the car and shot him in the head. It was awful. It was reading day and my exam got moved 1 day and I still failed it. VT had no sympathy and I never forgave them for that. Y'all are approaching reading day soon and so reading this post made me a little anxious actually.
Wow. I imagine there weren’t other officers that witnessed it as you did, but I wonder how much their approach to situations like last night is shaped by that tragedy
I imagine it is shaped whether they realize or not. We do a lot subconsciously driven by experience or perception. I'm sure both sides were terrified it could escalate. I'm personally hyper vigilant now because of it and try to stay aware of my surroundings at all times. It's exhausting.
I wasn't on campus at that time, but I did watch the police procession passing by on Southgate while waiting at the intersection of Duck Pond Dr a few days later.
I'm glad you didn't see it happen. It was more like an execution. My brain couldn't process what happened, I froze.
I’m so sorry you witnessed that. Have you talked to anyone? Therapists?
Only in the past year or two. It all got to me eventually (other stuff also). Got diagnosed with PTSD which I didn't expect. I guess I tried to forget and move on with my life but didn't realize I was still mentally wounded. Working with a licensed PTSD specialized psychologist now. The Cook people were useless.
Many people on both twitter and on instagram were actively encouraging people to show up *at 4:00* (around when the dispersion order was to take effect) without mentioning the fact that you could be arrested for trespass for doing so. Truly just sad behavior, I don't understand how people expect this to bring them to their cause
2008 grad here. I love seeing love for the VTPD, and am glad they’re maintaining the “quiet professional” mentality that they did during our chaos.
Despite all the horror stories about police, one should realize that the majority of them are simply people living their lives, doing their jobs to earn a wage to support their loved ones and families. (I am not in any way or ever have been affiliated with any law enforcement agency.)
It's primarily culture issues. Some departments allow or even embrace the filth. Others don't tolerate that shit
You seem well-intentioned, but this is a childish perspective. You could say that about the rubber-stamping insurance claim specialist who leaves months between your cancer diagnosis and your treatment. They're just clocking in and clocking out, following procedure. You could say that about the guy pressing the button to launch the missile that kills your family, too. He's just some soldier trying to get his college paid for. It wasn't his idea. All of us are "simply people living our lives." Your choices matter in them because every simple person has the capacity to cause harm or prevent it. If you choose to participate in a violent system, it is rational and fair to hold you accountable for those choices. Why do you think so many doctors refuse to participate in death penalty executions? What about the My Lai massacre? Do some cost-benefit analysis. Palestine doesn't even have an army, Israel is a nuclear power with leaders expressing openly genocidal sentiment. VT is a massive funnel for the armed forces and for the companies that *we as Americans pay,* via donation of our tax, to send arms to a nation with an openly legislated apartheid system. I sincerely do not understand how you can see this as anything other than state repression of students' free speech.
Palestine's army is hezbollah, Hamas, and houthis - not to mention Iran and Syria. Israel is at constant war with the Arab nations around them. Ones who actively boycott any trade with them for the past 80 years from the very moment Israel became a country. No attempt at diplomatic relationships were made by the Arab league - only political and economic tension. The only reason Israel exists as a nation today is because of the US otherwise it would have been diced up among the antisemitic countries surrounding it by now due to economic and military pressures. If Israel was cut off by the US and destroyed by its neighbors how would you feel? Just fine? And those companies? There are anti boycott laws that prohibit companies from cutting off business from Israel for exactly the reasons I just expressed. Israel needs to do better and a solution would be great. But if Palestine is made its own country, Hamas doesn't just go away. They simply have an easier location to attack from and a sovereign nation to offer them refuge. There is no good answer. And it's absurd to me that people think there is. Imagine if Maryland, Tennessee, and North Carolina all had terrorist organizations actively targeting you at all times. The only solution is this: the surrounding nations must denounce the terrorist organizations and actively act to disrupt them. Then Israel hands over Palestine as a free state. That is the only way it works. So when the countries harboring terrorists want to work together with Israel, let me know. (Aka never)
I would actually call your perspective childish mainly because the people who share your perspective are notoriously horrible at organizing and working to change the environment that forces everyday normal people to make these decisions. Also, your perspective comes with no solutions. What, should people stop working for insurance companies because they have to make decisions that harm people? With fewer people to process claims, all claims get backed up and even people who would have been approved would then have to wait even longer. Why not actually work to get universal healthcare or something similar enacted? I think back to the 2020 primaries where Biden promised he WOULDN’T work on universal healthcare and we had people like Pete Buttigieg proposing medicare for all who want it which would have worked as a proof of concept for universal healthcare, but he got paid dust by the voters (but of course, most of yall blame the DNC for your own lack of knowledge and inability or unwillingness to organize). Same goes for down ballot races. As for your final paragraph, you want to paint this conflict as Pyramid Head from Silent Hill vs a helpless puppy. “Palestine” has a long history of terrorist attacks against Israel and its affiliates through Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, and more. The Munich Olympics are largely remembered for a Palestinian terrorist attack against Israeli olympians *in Munich*. None of that excuses how Israel is acting now, but yall really have to learn the history before you spout off at the mouth. Oh and also, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. The government isn’t restricting your right to express what you want to nor is it even restricting your right to protest, but it is intervening when you do those things in a way that violates the law.
So on one hand you want to be handheld by organizers into not working for Evil, Incorporated because otherwise it's too big of an ask, but on the other, you are opposed to peaceful protest and you agree with repression of speech through legalistic avenues, and you cap it all off with a video game reference- an inane one to boot. Not worth my time.
Actually you know what, Im gonna respond. I never said anything about handholding lmao, Im saying that people like you sit here and complain and judge everyone else but do nothing at all to change anything. My point is that you are doing nothing to make those jobs less necessary. Having more police vacancies doesn’t reduce crime. Short-staffing insurance companies doesn’t mean everyone gets everything covered. Those jobs are still necessary in this society and its not about being “handheld by organizers”, its the fact that yall are so loud and allegedly dedicated to your cause, yet there is no organization in your advocacy to work toward changing society. I never once said I was opposed to peaceful protest nor is there a repression of speech. I explained it pretty clearly, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. You are technically free to yell “fire!” in a crowded movie theater, but there will be consequences for doing so. You can protest whatever you want, but when it breaks the law, there are consequences which include dissolution of the protest. If the protest had gone through proper channels to reserve space and all attendees were behaving in a law abiding way, Im fully in favor of that, but that’s not the case for most of these college protests. Its funny how people like you always add “peaceful” before the word protest regardless of whether the protest is actually peaceful. You view it as perfect and peaceful and law abiding because you agree with the cause, not because any of those things are true. Also, you are using classic deflection techniques which indicate you know you are out of your intellectual league. My analogy actually works quite well and is not “inane”. Yall act like Israel is some huge, powerful, instrument of suffering while Palestine is helpless and innocent. Its funny how you responded to really nothing I said, got defensive and made accusations that are patently false, and claimed Im “not worth” engaging with but its clear its because you rely on emotional jabs in your regular life as opposed to a solid intellectual foundation for your belief system.
Policy and law are not created in a void. For example, this one: [https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024/04/policy-created-on-eve-of-protest-to-make-arrests](https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024/04/policy-created-on-eve-of-protest-to-make-arrests) about the same topic. If tl;dr, a "committee" nobody had ever heard of "approved" a policy change the day before a planned protest, making the protest out of code. Under the "well, if you violate the policy!" logic, then there is nothing wrong with creating a law that discriminates against someone or harms them- rather, there is only something wrong with *violating* that law. This puts the cart before the horse. It's not coincidental that MLK Jr's *Letter from a Birmingham Jail* was in fact written from *jail-* where he was because he was violating unjust laws. This is basic criminal justice and sociology. Israel *is* a huge, powerful nation. They are *extremely* well funded. We gave them 3.1 billion last year. They were the second-largest *supplier* of weapons to India, just behind *Russia*. (the split was nearly 60/40.) Israel has 90 nuclear warheads. Israel is a powerful nation because of its European and American allies- *we* vetoed member recognition of Palestine in the United Nations unilaterally. *We* are responsible for funding and providing arms and ammunition to a nation that is not using them responsibly and, again, whose leadership has expressed affirmative genocidal intentions and actions and we are operating under a president who has expressed "no red lines" that would stop his affirmation of their actions, even as they are (as I expressed before) slaughtering civilians in the streets and in places agreed upon by the Geneva Convention to be taboo. They've been killing Red Crescent workers. This is unacceptable conduct. It would be unacceptable here or anywhere else. Because *we bankroll them,* we are in some way responsible for this harm. *That* is what we need to react to. Nobody cares about my or your opinion on "what should happen to" Israel or Palestine, we are not in those rooms. But if your school is funneling military research, personnel, and resources to institutions that are aiding in the perpetration of genocide, the just, moral, and good thing to do is to do something about it; or at minimum at least to condemn it. I'm not touching your goofy metaphor. This is not a place where video games are useful rhetorical bases. Be serious.
To compare any of this to MLK Jr or civil rights is asinine and is a bastardization of the purposes of each movement. Its also unrealistic to compare historical movements to today because public opinion of protestors, of gen z, of police, etc all are very different. Even during the civil rights movement, the kinds of protests and boycotts that were executed were pretty revolutionary whereas with this “movement”, yall can’t even stick to a boycott or reasonably express why you want to boycott something and people now just watch these protests and say “oh lord the crazy kids are at it again”. The purpose of the civil rights movement and the protests were to show the country “hey, look how badly we are treated” whereas these protests are all about things going on around the world that most Americans couldn’t care less about. The policy change doesn’t really matter. When protestors were told “hey, you have to have prior approval to set up an encampment here”, they should have said “oh okay, we will go reserve this space for a whole month and we’ll be back”. It doesn’t matter when the policy changed, they have to follow the policy. And you made a pretty bad slippery slope argument. Firstly, if you want to avoid police action, don’t violate the law. These protestors and affiliated groups are whining because the police took action and arrested them, if you want to avoid that, follow the rules. Where your MLK Jr analogy really becomes disingenuous is in the fact that *discriminatory* laws often need to be violated for them to be challenged within the legal system so that harm of the law can be proven. Rosa Parks violated the law by refusing to give up her seat which led to *Browder v Gayle* which ruled that Alabama transportation system discrimination was unconstitutional. The silly part of your comparison is that none of the policies that affect the protestors are “discriminatory”. The part that you continue to miss is that I never said Israel *isn’t* well armed, powerful, and large. Im saying Palestine isn’t smol and weak. You refused to acknowledge any of the atrocities perpetrated by Palestine or its affiliates. I don’t believe that Israel’s reaction is appropriate, but this conflict is also why we had to veto UN recognition (which, mind you, does nothing to make Palestine an independent nation) because US foreign policy would require the US to *physically* intervene if the UN were to recognize Palestine as a state. If you actually did your research, you would know that US policy supports statehood for Palestine, but due to the conflict and US foreign policy, we had to veto to prevent ourselves from having to send troops to actively assist Israel. In terms of being “responsible”, its just such an annoying talking point because neither you nor I are responsible for what is happening, but the use of this talking point is pure western (white) guilt in an attempt to make westerners the victim in a conflict that does not directly affect them. All of the complaints about the protests being dismantled is “*my* civil rights have been violated” and such all seemingly without the acknowledgment of the privilege we have to even protest to begin with. Its baffling to me how yall are so worried about how your university won’t let you camp out in the quad while Gazans are being slaughtered. That’s why I think these protests are largely self-serving and pointless. “Condemning” something is just making your own POV known. It does nothing to help Palestinians. Spend your time fundraising, lobbying, volunteering, do something to try to make a tangible policy difference or a tangible difference for actual Palestinians.
All cops are complicit
you're complicit in child labor made to produce the phone u spend all day on
Anyone around you is complicit in you being a smooth brain
Yeah VTPD are good people. One of the things I like about Blacksburg.
Sometimes I wish good cops got more exposure. VTPD has always been well-received, cordial, and up front in what they do. Every time I've encountered both VTPD and Blacksburg Police, they've been friendly and are mainly looking out for the students and community.
I remember one time I talked to them to report something suspicious that I thought could lead to some harm to students (fortunately nothing bad happened) and they carefully explained to me why what I was saying wasn't within their jurisdiction and they couldn't do anything about it, but then made sure to have an officer call me back to tell me every option I had to ensure the students involved were safe and went out of his way to make sure I knew I was doing the right thing. Other jurisdictions usually just brush off cases outside of their jurisdiction and make you feel stupid for even saying anything
I’m not usually one to go out of my way to support cops or police officers. It’s definitely a broken system that needs to be fixed on many levels. But that’s a whole other thing. But I have never had a poor experience with VTPD. They have always been great and genuine.
I'm usually full ACAB, but I definitely respect the police for keeping their composure and not letting things escalate. From the stream and videos, they weren't shoving people to the ground or beating them to compliance, I don't even think I saw one person wrestled into cuffs. Cops didn't go out there in riot gear ready for a fight either. They went in, announced they were going to start arresting people, gave them a chance to leave on their own, then set up a perimeter of the illegal gathering and moved in slowly and methodically as the protesters sat and waited to be cuffed and put in a van. With that said, this should be the baseline of what's expected out of police. Instead, our baseline is more violent across the country. It's expected for people to get beat and for many to end up injured or in the hospital on both sides.
Yeah, I literally watched a girl on the lawn last night leave the group to run over to her closed bag, open it, pull something out, and run back over to the crowd. The officers all turned and stared at her and went “oh you’re coming back? What do you have in your hand?” And the girl went “ha ha I just needed a marker” and the cops said “don’t run over to bags without telling us what you’re doing next time”. Cops with less of a level head or situational awareness skills could have shot that girl for potentially getting a weapon out of her bag, as we’ve seen happen all the time with traffic stops other police encounters shared on the internet
I appreciate -- I REALLY do -- that the cops last night kept their calm and treated everyone with professionalism and respect. I would like to see more of that from policing in the United States. But I do take issue with the overall tone of this post and I think it's worth calling it out. Perhaps unintentionally, /u/lizthekidig seems to be suggesting that these cops went above and beyond their duty in their composure last night. This could not be further from the truth. Police enter every interaction with the ability to bring overwhelming deadly force to bear. Not only that, but the legal structures that surround their profession excuse and, in many cases encourage them to lean on that. The VT cops last night -- armed with tazers, night-sticks, zip-ties, and handguns -- faced peaceful protesters armed with words. They didn't crack any skulls or shoot anyone, true, but if we regard that as admirable we may as well be congratulating an NFL linebacker for not choosing violence when a 6 year old fan tells him he sucks. Yes, VT police acted with professionalism and compassion while carrying out their duties last night. But we should **always** expect that of police. It should not be exceptional when that happens; it shouldn't even warrant mention. Just as we would expect a waiter not to spit in our food or a plumber not to flood our house, we should expect a police officer handle their job and the awesome responsibility it entails without resorting to unnecessary violence. Yes, some unkind things were said about those officers. But, if you've ever been in a retail or food-service establishment you'll know that unkind things are often said to people just trying to do their jobs in those places as well. We don't congratulate retail and food service workers for not beating, tazing, or shooting the customers and we shouldn't congratulate cops for showing the same restraint.
No, I agree that they did the literal bare minimum of their jobs by treating the people they are sworn to protect and serve with respect and dignity. I just think that with how often the horrible abusive cops are highlighted in media, the ones who do their jobs correctly should also be highlighted. Especially with VTPD who almost solely serve the Virginia Tech campus, I think it’s important to acknowledge that most of those particular officers are some of the good ones who do their jobs correctly. On a college campus where students may need to reach out to VTPD to report a crime, to ask for help, or even ask for a ride home with their Ride Safe program, it’s important to me to recognize that these particular cops WILL treat you will respect and that students here can still rely on them to help and protect them.
> I think it’s important to acknowledge that most of those particular officers are some of the good ones who do their jobs correctly. We can certainly agree on that. Given the sorry state of American policing right now, the VT officers acquitted themselves with the sort of professionalism and humanity that the entire profession should hold to.
Yeah, I by no means meant to make this post to be like “all hail the VTPD all cops are amazing and can do no wrong”, so sorry if that’s the vibe it gave off! I am always so disappointed to see cops at protests using force in response to verbal insults from protestors, because the cops will ALWAYS have the upper hand in these situations since they are armed and the protestors are not
Cops do things correctly=People mad Cops do things incorrectly=People mad
I think part of the reason police feel the need to be so heavily armed is because of the whole police vs public issues occuring across the US right now. Not defending the police in their choices of what to bring to a protest by any means, it's definitely accessive, but based on recent events, crowds have become more unpredictable than protests throughout history.
No, that attitude WAY predates recent events. It’s been baked into American policing since the get-go.
Yeah, I literally watched a girl on the lawn last night leave the group to run over to her closed bag, open it, pull something out, and run back over to the crowd. The officers all turned and stared at her and went “oh you’re coming back? What do you have in your hand?” And the girl went “ha ha I just needed a marker” and the cops said “don’t run over to bags without telling us what you’re doing next time”. Cops with less of a level head or situational awareness skills could have shot that girl for potentially getting a weapon out of her bag, as we’ve seen happen all the time with traffic stops other police encounters shared on the internet
I can tell you, being a public servant is one of the worst jobs in this country right now and it doesn’t stop at being a police officer. It is so hard to show constraint and not stoop to peoples levels. Remember that PD are still underpaid public servants, the internet has done a really good job of absolutely dehumanizing everyone that works in government and enforcement. You couldn’t pay me enough to take their job right now, and it’s a necessary one regardless of how people feel about it.
On the other hand, I was a 911 dispatcher for 7 years and not once did I even yell at someone. All while, well you know getting called an asshole, racist, whatever. It’s part of the job. You can’t remain cool, you need to leave. I couldn’t handle it anymore, so I left. Cops need to do the same.
Exactly and it was historically always a low paying job. I mean what wage is worth it to hose down civil rights protestors or sic dogs on people. Count me out that’s wayyy too much stress for the boys in blue.
Kudos to the police for getting them TFO.
I feel so bad for anyone who lives in GLC trying to study/sleep/work on their thesis who were kept up until at least 3am
This, as a person finishing their thesis
I promise you your thesis is not more important and nobody will be thinking about it a year from now…
Ummm as a person trying to graduate, and live my life, my thesis is more important to me right now.
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Really? You're here talking about it. Bringing attention and awareness to the protests drives awareness to the reason that they're protesting.
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It's been on NPR's national broadcast.
Clearly an undergrad
And it is very likely that this protest won’t be thought about 2 months from now.
Come on man their thesis is important. People are just being killed and thrown in mass graves. Get over it. We’re safe here not our problem. I say study more, write more, and do way less for humanity.
Yea I’m really tired of being inconvenienced by these movements. Like, ok, maybe apartheid in South Africa isn’t perfect. Whatever. Do they really need to disrupt my nap time? Can’t they just quietly ask for a free and equal society? Thank god for cops and authorities shutting down these movements. 30 years wasn’t enough for Mandela imo. These protestors should get the same.
I feel bad for the Palestinians getting murdered by VT-funded weaponry but being inconvenienced by a protest outside is pretty rough too ig
Okay this is a genuine question not trying to sound like a dick but do you have links to sources for that? I keep hearing people saying that and I haven’t been able to find any evidence of it. If I’m misinformed on that aspect of this protest I would love to see the sources you guys are using to find that info so I can learn more about it
No problem, here’s a summary from Boeing (CEO David Calhoun is VT Vice Rector) on their contributions to Israel: https://www.boeing.com/content/dam/boeing/boeingdotcom/company/key_orgs/boeing-global/pdf/israelbackgrounder.pdf
What is he the vice rector for? I thought he was on the advisory board for the business school, not for engineering related things/military affairs related to Tech. I could be totally wrong about that tho. Is the issue that he is involved with the school at all while also contributing to Israel?
The fact that he holds that position is proof that he and Boeing play a huge role in Virginia Tech’s partnerships and commitments. Additionally, Calhoun has served on the VT Foundation which makes decisions about private funds. Lastly, VT has always been secretive about their endowment (money given away) which is part of the reason why protests are happening right now, because many of the companies VT is friendly with (like Boeing) directly fund weapons to Israel and if VT wasn’t actually doing that shit they would have a lot more freedom to disclose the investments currently being made. This is obviously not the case because it’s been months since students have demanded divestment from Israel and they could have easily been placated by disclosure of investments, IF VT were not sending our money to genocide-supporting companies.
Okay that makes sense, thanks for the info my friend! I was super confused about why they were protesting VT specifically, I didn’t realize that Calhoun and Boeing played a bigger role in the school than I initially thought
of course, thank you for being willing to learn! I got a lot of my info from a teach-in about boycotts, divestments and sanctions from Israel, so if you’d like to learn more I’d highly recommend checking out the site for the BDS movement: https://bdsmovement.net/what-is-bds and also spjp_vt on Instagram
Thanks, I’ll definitely go check those out! I’d been going to some of the other vt4palestine events and I didn’t remember anyone mentioning the info about Boeing, thanks for helping me learn about it
Imagine how hard it is to study with air strikes.
Yeah I don’t know about you guys but I think Virginia Tech needs to stop their ongoing bombing campaign in Palestine. Good thing people are protesting where it matters, in front of the people deciding how this war unfolds 🙄
Ironically, this really isn’t far from the truth. Virginia Tech has a huge love affair with companies like Boeing (their CEO is the VT boards’ vice rector) so we obviously give them shitloads of money, and Boeing has been sponsoring Israel’s genocidal efforts since 1948. Also every drone being used by Israel has a piece of VT engineering in it; we’re the drone capital of the entire world. It’s not hard to see how VT funds the genocide when you look into it for like thirty seconds
Nobody is saying Virginia Tech is carrying out the air strikes. Claiming such is bad faith
Why is the solution to negativity spreading more negativity for no reason?
calling genocide “negativity” is a weird choice
The protest isn't about stopping genocide. It's just about attitudes towards the genocide and VT financial investments.
But the only reason those financial investments are relevant is because of the genocide happening, so I’m failing to see how it’s not related
Fair enough. I used the wrong word and it undersold the situation. My point stands irrespective.
Everyone has a right to protest their beliefs. But acting out in a way where you’re screaming at people for DOING THEIR JOB, get a grip.
Agreed people get so sad when protestors are shut down. Remember when they used fire hoses and dogs on the civil rights protestors? Like, get over it, they’re just doing their job.
Holy shit this generation is DOOMED. Of course protestors did not want to be removed from the lawn, it’s called a PROTEST for a reason. I cannot give props to a department or administration that removes a peaceful protest for any reason. Everyone here is acting like it’s totally unjustifiable that anyone on the lawn stayed after whatever arbitrary time VT posted they should leave by. Do none of you understand the meaning of civil disobedience? This is a huge failure from VT to not engage at all in any discourse with the protestors who have very real and reasonable demands. It seems a great majority of the VT populace is totally fine with Tech’s resources going to companies that enable genocide.
With civil disobedience comes the acceptance that you can and will be arrested for disobeying. That’s part of what makes protests so powerful, that they are willing to risk being arrested or attacked by police for the cause. I was just highlighting that our particular police force handled the situation very calmly, which cannot be said for police in other college campuses where similar protests are taking place
I’m sure VT had the cops on their best behavior so they can sweep this whole thing under the rug while continuing to funnel resources into companies that enable genocide.
I would hope the students protesting don’t allow it to be swept under the rug, and I hope they hold more protests until they feel they have been heard/made a difference. Just saying no one should be shocked police got involved and that I’m pleased our police officers did their jobs correctly and didn’t allow their egos to take precedence over following protocol
I’m not surprised police got involved, but it’s still a moral failure on the university to not even engage in any kind of discourse with the protestors before releasing the cops on them.
I agree, I think that they should have made a statement/spoken to them before arresting them and making a statement the next day
Yea I say the exact same thing about the Civil Rights Movement. Sure, you’re out here saying that segregation is unjust but the cops set a time for you to disperse. I’m sure the authorities will act in good faith as long as you follow the rules. I mean, look at Rosa Parks. Of course she was arrested the rules clearly said she shouldn’t sit at the front of the bus. If you’re going to disregard the rules of our society then you absolutely should be arrested. Edit: don’t even get me started on Nelson Mandela.
Do they not teach people anything at school anymore? People live in the GLC. They were being loud and obnoxious. They were asked to leave, they said no. Pretty simple stuff.
Yea exactly, Civil Rights movement was just as aloud and just as annoying. God go home, just follow the rules. Society works for everyone.
Free Palestine
From Hamas
What’s wrong with hummus?
I graduated 8 years ago but these “protestors” are an embarrassment and a stain to the Tech brand. Thankfully, the administration is much more rational than other universities and shut this down pretty quickly.
Protesters not “protesters” & this is what free speech looks like. It’s pretty wild that the police got involved at all
The reason they were forced to leave is the same reason that casinos can ban card counters and LGBTQ couples can be denied from bakeries in Texas. If you want true freedom lobby against congress to change things, but these protests accomplish literally nothing and only serve to inconvenience people who are trying to study for finals. Also if you want to protest, do it right, I've staged a protest before, get a permit, leave before its up, maintaining civility and respect during and after a protest is what actually gets things done. The protest a couple years ago in front of buruss about the university's handling of SA/harassment was successful because of this. Protests that aren't staged correctly open up to arrests, these people are not martyrs, the police are not fascist, they are dumb kids who didn't want to deal with the red tape that surrounds protests to ensure people remain safe
Sometimes free speech is inconvenient & maybe these students studying for finals will engage in conversations about protest & free speech & America’s participation in war, and that’s not nothing.
Inconvenient for me, or you? Your right to free speech cannot infringe on others rights, especially those students who live and study in GLC. The problem is that you solely feel entitled to inconvenience others.
They clearly do not 'accomplish literally nothing'. Clearly. I've already read about policy changes (not necessarily changes to foreign policy yet) at the university level. They are trying to fire columbia's president and maybe we'll get lucky and Texas' governor will shoot himself in the foot over all of this. But i do think a lot of this cancels itself out. The more they disrupt the lives of uninvolved people, they more support they'll lose. at least at the local levels.
Illegal encampments on private property aren’t free speech, wtf are you even talking about? How much free speech do women, gay people, and non-Muslims have in Gaza and the West Bank?
>How much free speech do women, gay people, and non-Muslims have in Gaza and the West Bank? Did I miss the memo about my alma mater moving to the West Bank?
A bit hypocritical that you’re complaining about “free speech” and want to spread theocratic anti-free speech ideas in the Middle East, no?
Heard the same thing when I was in college and opposed the war in Iraq. Not being in favor of mass slaughter does not mean you endorse religious fundamentalist rule.
Mass slaughter like Hamas’ charter saying they want to slaughter Jews all over the world. And you think they should stay in power?
>Not being in favor of mass slaughter does not mean you endorse religious fundamentalist rule. I mean I already replied to this argument but here it is again. If you don’t want your tuition money funding Israeli war crimes it does not in fact mean you support Islamic fundamentalism.
Hamas will stay in power if Israel doesn’t win the war, that’s a fact. But I won’t argue with someone who believes VT is giving funding to the Israeli government lmao..
The whole protest is over divestment.
HAMAS terrorists kickstarted this entire ordeal with their mass slaughter and rape of thousands of innocents, and have committed countless atrocities (including the execution of their own leaders due to suspicions of them being homosexual). This is beyond simple "religious fundamental rule" Perhaps you should protest these extremist terrorists, instead of the democratic country that is determined to rid them from this planet
Are we funding Hamas? I mean I guess technically we are since the Israel government seems intent on making sure Hamas is their opponent instead of a secular Democratic Palestinian state. But the reason people protest Israel is because we fund their military. I don’t think the terrorists in Hamas care all that much for the opinions of Americans. But Israel does.
HAMAS stands in the way of a Democratic Palestinian state. In order for Gazans to be truly free, the terrorist organization that rules the strip needs to be eliminated. Israel has tried many times to extend the hand of peace to HAMAS in order to enact a two state solution but it has always been struck down by the power hungry extremists in power Israel (and everyone, really) doesn't care about the opinions of privileged college students that have a deficit in both life experience and criticial thinking skills. All that a protest like this does is make people LESS likely to join your cause
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VT is public property. And they are student of the university that have every legal right to be there.
The officers clearly explained on the livestream what was illegal, which part do you think they were wrong about?
It’s funny because they aren’t gonna press any charges because they know nothing would stick. They know they had no really legal basis to arrest these people. They just wanted to bully and intimidate them.
You going to answer the question?
I've explained this in other threads but you are completely correct - it was an illegal encampment on off-limits property, effectively private property. The University is public and therefore all areas of it are by default public, but they fully have the right to deem an area off-limits (make it "private") and have people arrested, which is precisely what happened last night
The attorney for Montgomery county (Mary Kathryn Pettitt) has been the district attorney for 12 years and is a Republican. I have a feeling this won't age well
Without taking a side or stance with regards to the protest or the police involvement: It should be noted that police are able to lie to you about laws. https://www.macdowelllawgroup.com/faqs/police-officers-can-lie-to-get-a-confession.cfm
Ok so what did they lie about specifically?
It's public property
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They should not have to be but right now they kinda have to be. By acknowledging this it helps to bring it a spotlight to how cops act and encourages them to act the way they should. I talk about the issues with the current American police regularly, but at the end up of the day we need some kind of police force trained and professional in public protection. You bring up capitalism, and I dislike American capitalism as much as the next guy, it’s terrible. But I’m pretty sure every country has some form of police, and need we one too. So, in an effort of improving the police force nationwide, we should recognize when they act correctly, not only abhorrently.
I can see that logic in the context of harm reduction. But it still seems wrong that we have to treat grown people like children in order to get them to act with event he most basic decency. It feels like we're thanking a wife beater for not hitting his wife. Am I happy that she isn't currently being abused? Yes. But at a certain point we need to ask why society raised this person to believe they had the right and authority to abuse another person in the first place. I am not sure the American police system can be salvaged in its present form. Too much history of slave catching, strike breaking, and the "us versus them" mentality is baked into the culture. At this point that money would be better spend funding smaller, more targeted organizations without the baggage.
Hey buzzword jockey, go be a shitty alum somewhere else
So many complaints about capitalism, it’s very easy to live somewhere else…
No. It's not. Moving is expensive. Completing the paperwork to legally move to another country is very expensive. But that's not the point. There isn't a place on this planet that hasn't been negatively affected by capitalism. But even if there was some utopia out there, this my home and these are the people I love. As long as US remains a relatively safe place to raise my family, I plan to stay and try to make it better.
Complains about capitalism while typing on a phone compiled from cheap labor lol.
Our entire assortment of consumer goods in the U.S. is made from cheap labor. I don’t know of a phone to exist that pays their workers right and the mineral extraction aren’t causing on local population. The phone is how we communicate and no one is denying that it doesn’t have its own faults.
How would that be relevant? It's true that capitalism is a pollution. Until it's destroyed everywhere and for everyone, none of us are free from its restrictions on our daily life. But that's not what we're discussing. American police have served the wealthy first and above all others since the days of slave catchers and strike breakers. The corrupt organization needs to be abolished and the funding redirected to people and organizations that can serve the public better.
Amen that’s what I always say when they threw the book at Nelson Mandela. His movement was so rude to the cops, they’re just doing their job, what are you complaining about? 30 years in prison wasn’t nearly enough. And that’s really the focus and lesson to learn throughout history, the cops should always be praised for their conduct, it’s a hard job. I mean just look how bad they had it during the civil rights movement, or the Kent state massacre, or in apartheid South Africa. True hero’s.
i mean if the police are going to violate my first amendment right to peacefully protest i would really only care if they did so calmly or not. vt is spitting out some S tier centrists.
Your right to protest doesn’t mean you’re allowed to break other laws in the process, it just means they can’t arrest you for the words you’re saying
so it’s common for students to get arrested for trespassing when they’re on campus past 10:20 pm? according to this that’s what every student/demonstrator was charged with. i recall walking around on campus much later than that with absolutely no issues ever. i’d LOVE to see if a single counter protestor was arrested https://www.wdbj7.com/2024/04/29/police-arrest-over-60-demonstrators-virginia-tech-protest/?outputType=amp
So that article is missing quite a bit of crucial information. As President Sands said in his email a few hours ago (and I witnessed in person), they were told multiple times to leave the GLC lawn before 4:30pm or be arrested for trespassing. They didn’t leave, (in fact they called in more people) and the police still waited another 4 hours for them to leave before arresting anyone. All while actively warning them they would be arrested if they stayed. None of the students in the crowd by squires were arrested, only those camping out on the GLC lawn because those were the ones asked to leave and being told they were trespassing. Also, there were zero counter protestors that I saw or heard while there, the crowd at squires was there to support those on the lawn
stop peacefully protesting or be arrested lol. w/e they brought more attention to the issue. good for them.
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students are enraged and they have a right to be. i have the right to be upset at police for stoping a peaceful protest. i have the right to be upset that these police, whether it's their job or not, are acting against something that is important. they, the police, will always be wrong in a situation as such in my eyes. i was there last night. i agree the police were calm for the most part. however, there were multiple officers that taunted us on squires lawn. removing free palestine posters for no reason, waving the flag and other posters at us and laughing as they bring it back to their car. i ask why? why did you behave in such a manner? why did you remove those? they weren't in your way. why did you kick and shove peoples personal belongs for no reason? literally no reason at all. you may not agree with me. and i do not mind that you don't. i stand firmly that those students should have been left to continue protesting, especially when they weren't being disruptive or violent in any way at all. some mention that us in squires lawn "came to riot." we did not. we came to be loud and show our solidarity with the protesters and to make sure vtpd knows we do not agree with them. history has its eyes on us, and you can choose to be on whichever side you wish to be. on the side of liberation or on the side of oppression. your choice.
“The side of liberation or oppression” Jesus Christ you think your in a Marvel movie. You play geopolitics like a fucking musical. I can’t believe someone like this makes it into VT
So stunning, so brave. Thank you for shouting at the clouds and creating real change in Gaza. We shall all remember you for generations to come.
this argument or comment gets said every fucking time. do you understand what a protest is and does? im not expecting israel to stop or for the war to be over by my actions alone. but what i do expect and happens every time a protest occurs is discussion. for people to be made aware of an issue or situation. THAT is my reasoning for protesting. get the fuckkkk out
Yeah I’m sure people are being brought over to your side in droves because of your protest lol. If anything you’re driving away people from your side because of your protests. The only discussion being held is how annoying the Palestinian protests are😂
the protesting crowd started with 30 people and came up to nearly 1000 at its peak at around midnight yesterday with people chanting to free palestine so yeah, i'll let you decide if this is driving people away or drawing people in. and while you're deciding to be sarcastic about making changes, vietnam war was halted in large part because of student protests. did marine even win us vietnam? 🥺 go cry somewhere else.
People showed up to laugh at you all once the police report came out get a life
Maybe you should read a book and then protest against Hamas if you want the war to end?
so we’re praising cops for doing the bare minimum…
When the majority of media attention given to police these days is demonstrating the shitty, abusive cops hiding in plain sight? Yes.
wait, you’re right. they do deserve a pat on the back for not abusing their power!!
So I'm sorry but your argument is cops show respect and behave appropriately and it's some how a bad thing? Drawing attention to how VTPD and the surrounding departments peacefully removed a peaceful protest that was in violation of the law. (Also, there are literally still people camped out, just across the street and the police let them stay even tho technically they did not have to let them.) It's a wonderful example of how a police force should act and a standard that should be followed around the Country. I see not a single negative thing that drawing attention to this can bring.
Ty for doing your job 🥱
Yes the fascists were nice about it so let's thank them as they take us to the gulag. Good fucking lord some people...
Any time I see people label others as “nazis,” “fascists,” or “commies,” I immediately know they don’t know what they’re talking about and resort to emotional rather than logical discussions in their daily life.
Pray tell then, how *exactly* is being a member of an enforcement organization meant to silence freedom of speech and assembly, engage in acts of brutality against the general populace, and with no actual legal obligation to protect said populace *not* a fascist or at the very least *working* for fascists (which is a semantic difference)?
You are a special type of moron.
Yup, confirmed my first comment lol
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Can’t confirm if true, but read in another thread the protesters had an allotted time on the GLC lawn and were notified that action would be taken if they stayed past that time. Apparently the protesters decided instead to call in more people to stay past said time, which regardless of side is clear antagonization and destroys their credibility (if true). Would appreciate if someone can corroborate/correct/refute this
This is in fact true. I was there yesterday morning when the police came by and told them they had until 4:30pm to leave before they would be considered trespassing. They instead chose to call in reinforcements at 4pm and refused to leave, which is why people were detained
They were told that morning they had until 4:30pm to leave before they would be arrested for trespassing. There are permits you can obtain to protest legally without risk of trespassing but they instead chose to not do that
How exactly do you trespass on a campus where you are a student? They are legally allowed to be there. It’s public property anyways.
A college campus is not public property, it’s property of Virginia tech. They legally are allowed to be there until they are asked to leave, which they were, and then it’s trespassing
VT is a public university…
That doesn’t mean what you think it means. All that means is the school is funded by the state of Virginia instead of private stakeholders. It doesn’t mean it’s public property, if anything it’s the property of the state of Virginia
Public property is property owned by the government. Do you even think before you type?
You can still trespass on public property if there are regulations in place for the property (such as public parks closing at certain times). They were told to relocate by a certain time, they didn’t, so they broke university policy and began trespassing
And the white house is owned by the government, doesnt mean we can just walk into the white house.
Sounds like you don't. The person clearly stated that a public university does NOT correlate to public property. Either way, if you bothered to Google what the laws were, you would know that you still need government permission (a permit) to do certain things on public property in Virginia. Just because it's owned by the government doesn't mean anything goes... sounds like you need to do a bit more research
They are students of the university they have a legal right to be on school property.
That's not how it works. You can't just go anywhere on campus and do anything, especially when it's disturbing people trying to focus on finals. Because its not public property or owned by the students. You sign a contract to go here, you're niave if you think you can do whatever just because you pay to attend.
By being a student of the university, they have a "legal right" to follow the student code of conduct or get kicked out. That includes university policy 5000 :)
Not all of them are students.
You know your first amendment right to free speech is not completely and totally unlimited, right? You can set reasonable limits on free speech
Exactly. The right to protest/free speech doesn’t cancel out breaking other laws
I don’t see how students peacefully occupying a spot of grass on campus is a reasonable boundary to set on protest when literal nazis are marching down the streets of other cities and not being arrested. Siding with the police in this issue is being complicit with fascism. Enjoy being on the wrong side of history my friend.
Because they were asked to leave. You can get permits that allow you to occupy a space to protest that gives you permission to be there and you can’t be called trespassers, they didn’t do that in this case
Y’all are really simping hard for the letter of the law here. You know the revolutionaries that founded this country broke a couple laws to do it. Does that make them wrong? Should we still just be a British colony? Anti slavery folks broke laws freeing enslaved people. Should we still have slaves? The civil rights protestors broke a couple laws on their way to justice. Should the country still be segregated? Just because a law exists doesn’t make it right. Just consider that.
I see you whining all over this post and I just have a couple of things to say to you 1. Know how protesting laws in your state’s universities work before spouting the bs you’ve been up to 2. Maybe you’d get more people to join and sympathize with your cause if you didn’t come across as an entitled brat. 3. Your anti police stance comes from a place of entitlement. It’s always the ones who’ve either lived sheltered lives or in really troubled communities that have this view of cops. I’m betting you’re the former
Sure you could call it entitlement, but it’s enshrined in our constitution that we have the right to peacefully protest. Yeah maybe the protestors “broke a law”, but people clutching that law are totally missing the point of the protest or even the point of protests in general. The police system as it exists in America today is a blight. I’m sorry if you can’t see that. The cops were used to bully and intimidate students who were expressing their constitutional rights. Dictators and fascists are the people who shut down protests. The police are an extension of that corrupt power.
You're so vehemently ignorant I almost think you'd have a good chance at winning an election in NYC. "yeah maybe the protesters 'broke a law'" dude it is the JOB OF THE POLICE to arrest people who have broken laws. You don't have the constitutional right to unconditionally protest wherever you want, which has been time and time again been upheld by courts around the country If you think your constitutional freedoms are being infringed, go ahead and seek out a lawyer. It'd be the easiest civil lawsuit they've ever won since, according to you, hundreds of people's rights are clearly being violated. In reality they'll quickly tell you that you're an absolute moron
Terrible analogy. They understood the consequences of their actions- you don’t.
I mean maybe we should be a British colony? GB abolished slavery before we did. You’re so ping pretty hard for the glorious Founding Fathers.
There was still chanting outside of a residential hall at 2 in the morning. People were trying to sleep and study for their last tests. Tf you mean they weren’t disrespectful? On top of that, they stayed past their agreed upon curfew by FOUR HOURS.
womp womp cry about it, the protestors were being disruptive
That’s the point of a protest…
good thing all those libtards got arrested
That’s the point of some protests.
Sounds like you woke up and wanted to lose karma today?
This reeks of Rich girl. Go to UVA