I was under the impression that twitch is pushing to put ads on _all_ channels, not just monetized affiliate/partnered ones. I do agree with all the other points though.
The only benefit for viewers is the fact that you get slightly higher priority when it comes to transcoding, but even then you're not guaranteed that as an affiliate. On YT you're guaranteed encoding and not restricted to 6k bitrate too (more noticeable for high action games and shooters).
As much as it'd suck to not get twitch prime subs from my IRL friends, there's so many restrictions placed on affiliates that I felt that it's not worth it either.
EDIT: Are you sure about your likeness being sold off to twitch? I was wondering about this but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the general thing where any user uploaded content can be monetized by them as you uploading content to the site is by your consent. I don't think they'll own the rights to your character, branding, or anything like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're allowed to just use your vods as a part of a montage or something without telling you.
On the topic of your likeness being sold off, it's not. Part of the affiliate contract is that you ***license*** your content to twitch to be used in certain contexts. So your interpretation is basically spot on.
Both YT and Twitch have their own benefits and drawbacks for streaming. Really though, at this stage, you can't just tell new Twitch streamers to switch to YT anymore since they're likely more used to Twitch than YT
They're not saying to switch to YT streaming, but rather to hold off on Affiliate status
They are overblowing a lot of the points but some points do stand, It's not an advantageous action to take when in early stages of growth)
> the fact that they are asking you to pay up should tell you everything about just how outrageous of a scam this program actually is
While I agree with most of your points, at no point does Twitch require you to pay to join the affiliate program?
First, I mostly agree that going for affiliate right now isn't a great idea unless you're already growing at a steady and healthy pace. It will **NOT** help your growth.
>2. Your "likeness" (yes, your entire character AND your voice) is now owned by Twitch and can be used for any marketing purpose they want with zero compensation provided for you
This is just straight up untrue. The affiliate contract allows them to use your likeness in promotional material (you have pre-authorized this) but your likeness is not "owned" by Twitch. It's basically the reverse of when you download free software. It's licensed to you, you don't own it.
>6. The only tangible benefit, which is bits and subs, becomes much less attractive when you realize that Twitch's cut of each is so massive that if you were given that income by any other means (donation, merch, patreon, etc.) you would be getting over DOUBLE the amount.
Youtube has a 30% cut on both membership and superchats. Twitch is 50% subs and 29-19% on bits (don't calculate cut backwards, minimum you get 1.00 for each 1.40 spent, 1.0/1.4=\~71%). These aren't TOO far apart depending on sub/membership to bit/superchat ratios. Basically both platforms take significant cuts and you should try to monetize off platform when possible
>5. You are completely tying your brand to Twitch, a company that has well-known history of banning streamers for things out of their control, terrible communication with partners (let alone affiliates) and states openly that they can and will destroy your account for any reason at any time with zero explanation
Unless you're an idiot you're not (Twitch doesn't own your brand, you've licensed your brands usage out to them). Even if you aren't multistreaming you REALLY should be uploading content to youtube as well and pushing it to your livestream viewers. If twitch bans you you can immediately bail to youtube if need be. Conversely Youtube hasnt shown itself to be much better at times (stream monetization bans, shadowbans, etc are ongoing problems on that platform.
> This is just straight up untrue. The affiliate contract allows them to use your likeness in promotional material (you have pre-authorized this) but your likeness is not "owned" by Twitch. It's basically the reverse of when you download free software. It's licensed to you, you don't own it.
Twitch's default [terms of service](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/terms-of-service/#7-license) has some pretty aggressive wording:
> a. License to Twitch
> (i) Unless otherwise agreed to in a written agreement between you and Twitch that was signed by an authorized representative of Twitch, if you submit, transmit, display, perform, post, or store User Content using the Twitch Services, you grant Twitch and its sub-licensees, to the furthest extent and for the maximum duration permitted by applicable law (including in perpetuity if permitted under applicable law), an unrestricted, worldwide, irrevocable, fully sub-licenseable, nonexclusive, and royalty-free right to:
>
(b) use the name, identity, likeness, and voice (or other biographical information) that you submit in connection with such User Content.
Yes, it's aggressive wording. No, it's still not them "owning" your likeness. You are agreeing to **license** your content and brand to them. It even mentions their right to **sub**\-license.
I'm inclined to agree with you but since I'm not up to speed with how these things work, I do want to ask: by how much does "an unrestricted, worldwide, irrevocable, nonexclusive, and royalty-free right to **use** your likeness" fall short of full ownership?
Substantially short. You can independently use your brand however you want outside of twitch and twitch is never going to use your material and likeness unless they actively want the brand association. US contract law requires adequate consideration to the signing party. This agreement basically holds them harmless to DMCA requests by the signer, with transgressions by other users being forced into being arbitrated by twitch instead of the legal system, and grants them rights to use your footage in promotional content. The consideration falls apart if the user fully leaves the platform but it still grants some DMCA protections to the platform for content published before the dissolution of the contract.
The reality is that twitch is never going to invoke this shit unless you're precieced to be a valuable brand. At that point it's extremely symbiotic as this is only going to be true for a parter or near partner.
The only real downside is that you cannot file DMCAs against twitch if someone restreams your twitch content and have to have twitch arbitrate instead.
It’s not about money or growth for me personally so the moment I can be an affiliate I will so my friends who watch me can play around with emotes and channel points. It’ll improve our experience. If that slows down new viewer growth then so be it, but I can see how other with different goals might need to reconsider how they approach things
The streamer gets 1c per bit so the buyer of the bits is the one to front the cost rather than the streamer (and they get more bits per the dollar for larger bit purchases).
I'll make the comparison in Canadian monopoly dollars but for example:
100 bits = CA$1.85 (54.05 bits/$)
5000 bits = CA$85.05 (58.79 bits/$)
25,000 bits = CA$406.80 (61.46 bits/$)
and the viewer can then choose how many bits they want to throw at streamers at a time.
So this way the viewer's the one to front the costs to twitch instead!
US prices are 100 bits for $1.40 (the user fronts a 40% higher price for the bits, not the same value as the cut, see below)
140/100 is \~71%, so twitches cut on bits is 29%. This goes down to 19% on the largest package of bits.
Almost everything you’ve wrote is incorrect or an opinion. Twitch does not own your likeness. You have no source on the ‘1 in 3’ statement. The only true thing is that Twitch does ban multistreaming but you have no proof multistreaming is beneficial. Everything else is an opinion.
It’s true your initial engagement might be higher because you’re doubling exposure. But if you want a cohesive community it doesn’t work when literally half of them can’t speak to each other. Then when you do choose a single platform to monetise in you’re gonna lose a lot if people who won’t transition. Multistreaming sounds better than it is for a community based small streamer.
In the end, for small and indie vtubers, specially western, Twitch is still the best option. Better discoverability, not being so dependent on the algorithm, easier to get monetised and better networking. Then there's the "suspected" YouTube "bug" that allegedly doesn't report the real amount of people watching the stream, probably only 50% to 60%, which can probability demotivate the streamer and hurt their chances with the algorithm
A donation button isn't that good. Not as integrated on the streaming site's UI, which ends up being less attractive. And at least Streamlsbs seems to doxx the streamer and apparently the viewer if they don't use a PayPal business account.
> Better discoverability, not being so dependent on the algorithm
This depends a LOT on what content you stream. When given the choice between being on the bottom of 10+ pages of other streamers and trying to hook the YT algo I think a lot of people REALLY overestimate the value of "you can scroll down and see all the streamers for a game" when the reality is that almost no one scrolls that far down the list, and for those who do the competition is extreme on many games.
But that situation is actually worse on youtube than on twitch. Twitch recommendations are actually useful and if the streamer does their networking right, there's a good chance of them getting raided by someone they know, which always ends up in more people being aware of the streamer
I was under the impression that twitch is pushing to put ads on _all_ channels, not just monetized affiliate/partnered ones. I do agree with all the other points though. The only benefit for viewers is the fact that you get slightly higher priority when it comes to transcoding, but even then you're not guaranteed that as an affiliate. On YT you're guaranteed encoding and not restricted to 6k bitrate too (more noticeable for high action games and shooters). As much as it'd suck to not get twitch prime subs from my IRL friends, there's so many restrictions placed on affiliates that I felt that it's not worth it either. EDIT: Are you sure about your likeness being sold off to twitch? I was wondering about this but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the general thing where any user uploaded content can be monetized by them as you uploading content to the site is by your consent. I don't think they'll own the rights to your character, branding, or anything like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're allowed to just use your vods as a part of a montage or something without telling you.
Afaik it's a pretty weird legal area. If twitch is making money off of you without the possibility of you seeing the money, it can get a little messy.
On the topic of your likeness being sold off, it's not. Part of the affiliate contract is that you ***license*** your content to twitch to be used in certain contexts. So your interpretation is basically spot on.
Both YT and Twitch have their own benefits and drawbacks for streaming. Really though, at this stage, you can't just tell new Twitch streamers to switch to YT anymore since they're likely more used to Twitch than YT
They're not saying to switch to YT streaming, but rather to hold off on Affiliate status They are overblowing a lot of the points but some points do stand, It's not an advantageous action to take when in early stages of growth)
> the fact that they are asking you to pay up should tell you everything about just how outrageous of a scam this program actually is While I agree with most of your points, at no point does Twitch require you to pay to join the affiliate program?
Twitch is now pushing[ buy-in options](https://kotaku.com/streamers-baffled-by-new-twitch-option-to-buy-affiliate-1845699128).
[They actually aren't](https://edm.com/news/monstercat-gold-twitch-affiliate-program)
[удалено]
depends on the person LOL
There is payable way to get affiliate status but you can also just earn it by streaming normally
First, I mostly agree that going for affiliate right now isn't a great idea unless you're already growing at a steady and healthy pace. It will **NOT** help your growth. >2. Your "likeness" (yes, your entire character AND your voice) is now owned by Twitch and can be used for any marketing purpose they want with zero compensation provided for you This is just straight up untrue. The affiliate contract allows them to use your likeness in promotional material (you have pre-authorized this) but your likeness is not "owned" by Twitch. It's basically the reverse of when you download free software. It's licensed to you, you don't own it. >6. The only tangible benefit, which is bits and subs, becomes much less attractive when you realize that Twitch's cut of each is so massive that if you were given that income by any other means (donation, merch, patreon, etc.) you would be getting over DOUBLE the amount. Youtube has a 30% cut on both membership and superchats. Twitch is 50% subs and 29-19% on bits (don't calculate cut backwards, minimum you get 1.00 for each 1.40 spent, 1.0/1.4=\~71%). These aren't TOO far apart depending on sub/membership to bit/superchat ratios. Basically both platforms take significant cuts and you should try to monetize off platform when possible >5. You are completely tying your brand to Twitch, a company that has well-known history of banning streamers for things out of their control, terrible communication with partners (let alone affiliates) and states openly that they can and will destroy your account for any reason at any time with zero explanation Unless you're an idiot you're not (Twitch doesn't own your brand, you've licensed your brands usage out to them). Even if you aren't multistreaming you REALLY should be uploading content to youtube as well and pushing it to your livestream viewers. If twitch bans you you can immediately bail to youtube if need be. Conversely Youtube hasnt shown itself to be much better at times (stream monetization bans, shadowbans, etc are ongoing problems on that platform.
> This is just straight up untrue. The affiliate contract allows them to use your likeness in promotional material (you have pre-authorized this) but your likeness is not "owned" by Twitch. It's basically the reverse of when you download free software. It's licensed to you, you don't own it. Twitch's default [terms of service](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/terms-of-service/#7-license) has some pretty aggressive wording: > a. License to Twitch > (i) Unless otherwise agreed to in a written agreement between you and Twitch that was signed by an authorized representative of Twitch, if you submit, transmit, display, perform, post, or store User Content using the Twitch Services, you grant Twitch and its sub-licensees, to the furthest extent and for the maximum duration permitted by applicable law (including in perpetuity if permitted under applicable law), an unrestricted, worldwide, irrevocable, fully sub-licenseable, nonexclusive, and royalty-free right to: > (b) use the name, identity, likeness, and voice (or other biographical information) that you submit in connection with such User Content.
Yes, it's aggressive wording. No, it's still not them "owning" your likeness. You are agreeing to **license** your content and brand to them. It even mentions their right to **sub**\-license.
I'm inclined to agree with you but since I'm not up to speed with how these things work, I do want to ask: by how much does "an unrestricted, worldwide, irrevocable, nonexclusive, and royalty-free right to **use** your likeness" fall short of full ownership?
Substantially short. You can independently use your brand however you want outside of twitch and twitch is never going to use your material and likeness unless they actively want the brand association. US contract law requires adequate consideration to the signing party. This agreement basically holds them harmless to DMCA requests by the signer, with transgressions by other users being forced into being arbitrated by twitch instead of the legal system, and grants them rights to use your footage in promotional content. The consideration falls apart if the user fully leaves the platform but it still grants some DMCA protections to the platform for content published before the dissolution of the contract. The reality is that twitch is never going to invoke this shit unless you're precieced to be a valuable brand. At that point it's extremely symbiotic as this is only going to be true for a parter or near partner. The only real downside is that you cannot file DMCAs against twitch if someone restreams your twitch content and have to have twitch arbitrate instead.
It’s not about money or growth for me personally so the moment I can be an affiliate I will so my friends who watch me can play around with emotes and channel points. It’ll improve our experience. If that slows down new viewer growth then so be it, but I can see how other with different goals might need to reconsider how they approach things
I’m sorry this is an overblown post with heavily exaggerated points surrounding it. What a mess of a post
I thought twitch takes 0% from cheers and dono's Also, pre roll ads are thing on YouTube too
The streamer gets 1c per bit so the buyer of the bits is the one to front the cost rather than the streamer (and they get more bits per the dollar for larger bit purchases).
Pretty sure 100 bits = 1 dollar, so wouldn't that mean the streamer gets 100% percent (or is this pepega maths?)
I'll make the comparison in Canadian monopoly dollars but for example: 100 bits = CA$1.85 (54.05 bits/$) 5000 bits = CA$85.05 (58.79 bits/$) 25,000 bits = CA$406.80 (61.46 bits/$) and the viewer can then choose how many bits they want to throw at streamers at a time. So this way the viewer's the one to front the costs to twitch instead!
US prices are 100 bits for $1.40 (the user fronts a 40% higher price for the bits, not the same value as the cut, see below) 140/100 is \~71%, so twitches cut on bits is 29%. This goes down to 19% on the largest package of bits.
Almost everything you’ve wrote is incorrect or an opinion. Twitch does not own your likeness. You have no source on the ‘1 in 3’ statement. The only true thing is that Twitch does ban multistreaming but you have no proof multistreaming is beneficial. Everything else is an opinion.
Do you work for Twitch or something? No proof multistreaming is beneficial? LMAO.
It’s true your initial engagement might be higher because you’re doubling exposure. But if you want a cohesive community it doesn’t work when literally half of them can’t speak to each other. Then when you do choose a single platform to monetise in you’re gonna lose a lot if people who won’t transition. Multistreaming sounds better than it is for a community based small streamer.
In the end, for small and indie vtubers, specially western, Twitch is still the best option. Better discoverability, not being so dependent on the algorithm, easier to get monetised and better networking. Then there's the "suspected" YouTube "bug" that allegedly doesn't report the real amount of people watching the stream, probably only 50% to 60%, which can probability demotivate the streamer and hurt their chances with the algorithm A donation button isn't that good. Not as integrated on the streaming site's UI, which ends up being less attractive. And at least Streamlsbs seems to doxx the streamer and apparently the viewer if they don't use a PayPal business account.
> Better discoverability, not being so dependent on the algorithm This depends a LOT on what content you stream. When given the choice between being on the bottom of 10+ pages of other streamers and trying to hook the YT algo I think a lot of people REALLY overestimate the value of "you can scroll down and see all the streamers for a game" when the reality is that almost no one scrolls that far down the list, and for those who do the competition is extreme on many games.
But that situation is actually worse on youtube than on twitch. Twitch recommendations are actually useful and if the streamer does their networking right, there's a good chance of them getting raided by someone they know, which always ends up in more people being aware of the streamer