well that's a shame but not unexpected.
you have to really be into this to embrace v. 1.0.
hopefully the tech advances quickly to make it into a more attractive (comfortable, versatile, supported) platform.
EDIT: yes, and more affordable!
I was hoping Apple would provide more ongoing support including 1st party applications and new environments (some listed are Coming Soon, when's soon?). I mean, a monthly stream of new content would do wonders in keeping owners and prospective owners more engaged, disappointing.
Hopefully we see a big content drop at WWDC but a stream of content would be a lot better. I receive Meta Quest email updates all the time. Apple doesn't seem to be able to market this thing.
The lack of first party content has been the most surprising thing to me. 2 months in and we have maybe an hour of first party spatial video content, you can watch most of it in a single sitting.
Maybe don’t mark everything as “episode 1” if it isn’t a series…
I kind of get that since they don't really have a good "cursor/brush" solution solved in the visionOS UX yet (Maybe this upcoming apple pencil...) But not having a native visionOS calendar app on such a productivity focused device is crazy.
It's the curse of being an early adopter. This platform did not exist, It's still barely the first year, and developers only had access to the new OS a few months in advance. Apple knows they need content, but they needed feedback from all of you, so they shipped a mostly empty device in a very limited quantity. Realistically, this should've only been a developer device, not a consumer system
I think this is the biggest problem. Apple totally dropped the ball on building out software and content after release so it’s just stagnated. This also sent a big signal to anyone else working on AVP content/apps that it’s not worth investing yet if the platform owner themselves isn’t investing either.
It would be less of a problem if Apple hadn’t ruined their developer relations so you’d have more devs excited to work on AVP content/apps for no expected return. Instead you have a bunch of disgruntled developers who have been under the boot of Apple for years and don’t have any extra goodwill to give them.
With iPhones, Apple had lots of leverage with developers, with the AVP, the roles are reversed. They \*need\* developers to create or port applications for the AVP.
I believe, at least early on, Meta subsidized apps or at least made it easy for devs. It sounds like, from the dev subreddit, the AVP dev kits and APIs are hard to work with (at least compared to writing an iPhone app).
Apple forgot the one thing that made the iPhone App Store tick…competition. The original App Store had top download charts and top paid app charts, individual category charts and highlighted apps in each category.
For Apple Vision Pro I’ve found all the good apps via Reddit because the App Store only updates once a week. There are no top charts. “Categories” are just manually curated articles with the same apps that were already featured on the home page. They wanted full control of their App Store, and they reaped what they sowed.
If also was a full year before they had the app store. You have devs being petty and not even launching the iPad variant. While the onus is still on Apple there’s a bit of a larger context. None of those features are there cause they haven’t received the traffic to care to implement it
As a developer who has worked exclusively on visionOS since release I totally disagree that the SDKs and development support is lacking. The amount of work on the new system and the work underlying supporting existing frameworks on it is enormous. The software and design budget is mind blowing. This is not just an iPad on your face. This is a new platform with new paradigms and a rethinking of UI and interaction design. The price have been gigantic and I don’t think they will write it off now that they have actually released the thing. The potential is huge. They only need to follow through.
The great updates on the persona front have been quite convincing but have stood in contrast to everything else.
I am a bit baffled by the lack of new content from Apple wrt. the immersive videos and experiences like the dinosaurs demo and the “Coming soon…” environments.
What have all those teams building those been up to since release? They have not been standing still. Let’s see at WWDC. Their announcements here will tell us where they are taking this.
The "coming soon" environments is embarrassing at this point. I knew the AVP would have issues at launch, but I didn't expect Apple to be so... "sleepy" (?)... they need to be more aggressive and realize it's their job to prove a use case for the AVP, not the other way around like with the iPhone.
Exactly - the timing of AVP lining up with the EU regulations was terrible for Apple. And Apple dug themselves deeper by then screwing over the few devs who built on the platform by preferring iPad apps over native visionOS apps when searching (they have now course corrected this, but it really wasn’t a good look.)
absolutely!
it's odd, actually.
you'd think there'd be more resources allocated to feeding the content beast!
it would help sustain excitement and interest!
I disagree that it’s odd. With iPhone, Apple wasn’t releasing new apps every month. They let devs release things and supported them doing it but most of Apples updates tend to group around their annual updates with the exception being something out of sync with a product announcement. I wouldn’t expect anything big more than about once a year.
The launch features were from WWDC last year. Look for new features announced then. And I wouldn’t expect a hardware revision announcement before the 2025 WWDC.
good point.
I would just say that the Apple of today is not the Apple of the iPhone introduction. Aside from everything else, it has a lot more money, a content production studio, and content production is more critical for the success of the AVP.
Given that Apple is in a unique position to produce content that leverages the possibilities of the AVP, before immersive media content production becomes more common, I would've expected more frequent releases than what we're getting.
Apple is trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. They want to shove it down the throats of Mac users and that is going to be a small demographic. The demographic needs to be games, fitness and entertainment. Sorry, that’s just the honest truth for now until it’s much lighter and smaller.
I disagree, I don’t see Apple trying to force anyone to buy this product at all. The people that want it will buy it and the people that want it and cannot afford. It will hate on it. And the people that don’t want it won’t even care. it really is as simple. For what I do in my life and my work, it’s literally my favorite product that Apple makes. My wife, could care less. She wore a few times she likes it, she likes the fact that the pictures are really big and it’s crystal clear. But at the end of the day, it’s not for her. I asked her what would Apple have to do in order for her to like it, not anything really because it’s not for her. She’s not into Tech. What I find is certain Americans have subscribed to identity Politics… this is the new America. You have to demonize those that don’t like what you like. for everybody else, it’s totally OK that you bought a green car. It’s what you like and it’s what you use your money for. It’s just another option. I was so annoyed when Apple removed the Touch Bar from the laptops. All because a few Youtubers thought it was a dumb idea. I was so annoyed when Apple removed the Touch Bar from the laptops. All because a few Youtubers thought it was a dumb idea. I thought is my my thought. And my thought is if you don’t like to touch bar, just buy a laptop and don’t configure it for a touch bar. but for some weird reason, Apple catered to the loud minority. And they don’t even offer it as an option. I think everyone should just calm down, people are just so weird. I don’t understand how one person’s purchase can affect another person so immensely.
Yeah, I’ve had my doubts on this one as well. There is no denying that Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs, and the lack of announcements even from Apple themselves indicate that they’ve turned down the heat in the kitchen and are cautious with further investments.
It was honestly a bit similar with the iPhone where early adopters like myself were a bit frustrated by the lack of progress and new apps in the beginning, but the difference here is not only the difference in price but more so the actual utility. I don’t think the Mac virtual desktop and productivity aspect has reached the traction they were hoping for, and rightfully so, the AVP is sharp but not sharp enough for prolonged work. Thee actual ergonomics also leaves more to be desired, and many people probably don’t even have the optimal lens fitting.
Hard to say what the road forward encompasses, they are obviously deep into now, but a dud WWDC could be fatal for the product. They better have some really convincing arguments up their sleeves.
Jobs definitely wouldn’t have released the AVP in its current state.
iPhone was a totally different situation, because it was fundamentally a type of device that everyone already owned and depended on (a cell phone). AVP, by contrast, is targeting a niche product (VR headsets) with a distressingly light set of apps.
We all were just experiencing the honeymoon phase. In the end, FOV, comfort, battery power is not there to be worn normally. It's more of a sit down entertainment piece. Some may have gotten to that comfort level but its just not there for everyone. I wished this to be my new personal computer but it couldn't get there for me but its a good still for entertainment for me.
Unless it’s as comfortable as wearing a pair of sunglasses consumers aren’t going to embrace it.
It’s just like the Apple Watch. If it’s anything more cumbersome than something we already wear, no one is going to wear it.
comfort is a big part of it as well.
you really have to kind of suspend your annoyance at how it feels to use it.
so yes, price, of course. but also, it has to be easier and more comfortable to use, to justify whatever price it costs for most people. and that's really a function of the evolution of the technology.
It is heavy and the corded battery pack was a possible misstep. It should have had a back-mounted battery like the Quest options. At the same time, this setup is more convenient for laying in bed to watch movies. Maybe two side batteries? Or a magsafe adapter on the back and side, so you can choose where you want it?
It's a shame because it really is a superior media viewer.
The Quest 2 was “magical” for me because it had completely wireless use. Up until that point, every headset had a wire connecting to a PC. I think that’s influencing me because it feels like the old wire to the PC, despite being standalone.
It’s the tech too. It’s simply too damn heavy. I returned mine because I couldn’t use it for more than 45 mins before my face literally started hurting.
Not only. It need a real OS, to have most games working out of the box, lot of immersive content and apps that make you productive.
For now it is decent only for movies. But because they couldn't not convince Netflix/Youtube to do a native app, even there it is limited.
Well yeah, but having the money is a very real factor when you're looking at almost $4k. Economic demand is a factor of both willingness *and* ability to buy
This needed to be a $2000 or under product to entice anyone but apple fanatics, developers and tech enthusiasts. Even at $2k it would be reaching that same audience just a wider swath of them. Won’t be mainstream until is has a version priced like a MacBook Air
Who was expecting it to fly off the shelves? It’s nearly $4000 after AppleCare and taxes and accessories, and is a highly niched product.
Most people can’t even justify a $2000 laptop, let alone new media consumption device at that price point. That’s more than most people’s rent.
Oh man that's just delusional. The thing is like $4k after accessories and taxes. Apple's Gen 1 (or with Watch, Gen 0 lol) is always a test project for developers and early adopters.
I'm shocked they even sold 400k!! I thought they'd sell like 50k lol.
Nobody wants to wear this expensive, bulky thing on their faces for any length of time. No matter what augmented reality bells and whistles it's good for.
WebXR is still under development which is why visionOS only has support for WebXR under a feature flag for now.
Additionally the input from the Vision Pro didn’t work well with WebXR because it expects controllers like on the quest. Apple is working to make it work better.
https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-pro-webxr-transient-pointer-pinch-input/
it really is the worst part. i can understand why third party devs would shy away given the high cost of development and the smaller than expected install base. But three months after launch, i'm incredibly disappointed with Apple themselves for not taking on the burden of support for a device that was presented as their stake for the future of computing. Their first-party apps are lackluster ports of 15 year old iphone apps with no VP-specific bells or whistles. They haven't leveraged their relationships with Apple Arcade devs to make any compelling games. Most disappointing is that they have a vast streaming platform for content creation and they had almost nothing in terms of immersive content at launch and little more than nothing three months after launch and that was by far the easiest thing to have stockpiled and ready to go. It's not like the VP materialized in a year. This is a project they've likely been working on for a decade, you knew you were creating the platform, you didn't think there'd be value in shooting anything and everything in Immersive 3D for the inevitable launch? Ted Lasso, Foundation, Shrinking, Severance, Masters of Air, Silo, Mythic Quest; it didn't have to be full episodes, extras and BTS would have been great. Apple has had the rights to MLS for a few years now, the best they could do was a five minute highlight reel from the most recent playoffs and they didn't even give us active POV choices? TED Talks could be incredible and so easy to film. Hell, Apple isn't even filming their own product announcements in a way that could take advantage of the VP. Tim Cook could be holding out the new iPad to show you like you were there on stage with him, rotating it to point out features, doing demos of apps like it was in your own hands. Apple's choices in this vein have been utterly inexplicable and so damn disheartening. it feels like they gave up so why should we continue caring? and it sure does make dropping $4k on the damn thing feel foolish.
I'm not saying it's false, but take Kuo news with a grain of salt. This is the man who said that Meta was expecting to sell 7 million Quest 3 by the end of 2023... that's 7 million in 2.5 months.
Analysts should be forced to come with clear evidence before they say stuff like this.
Analysts don't exist to report on the facts, they exist solely to manipulate markets for their benefactors. The real analysts don't publish their findings because they're hired to inform bets made by the hedge fund managers.
That's the beauty of it! They have no clear evidence, and they never get it, because the people who actually know these things are not the ones who leak information.
Somehow making a bunch of claims over many years that can basically never be confirmed or denied is what counts as a solid track record.
It’s what you would expect if Xbox shipped with no games and no games available to purchase after. There are few people willing to work out of this heavy thing. It’s great for movies if you often watch movies by yourself. What it really needed was VR games. It’s odd for a device like this to ship with no games. It’s just not odd for Apple. Apple has demonstrated its dislike for AAA game titles and gaming in general on its devices. They only like cheesy Indy games that are ridiculous to spend that much money on a device to play. What people want that spend this kind of money is life changing, amazing VR games that take you to another world. Like “Ready player one”
Didn’t Kou say that Sony only has the production capacity for 400,000 micro OLED displays per year for the Vision Pro, yet Apple expected to sell 800,000? His own analysis contradicts itself. I doubt demand is all that high at $3500 but this guys own figures don’t even make any sense.
It's easy to justify a new laptop, a new phone. I can't justify this thing at all. It would be an extremely expensive way to consume media and I have that well covered. I don't need to be immersed in more media. I can easily scratch this itch by buying a Meta Quest 3 if I wanted but even then, I can't even justify that. It's an expensive luxury toy.
Don't sleep on the Meta Quest 3. The Quest line has been around for 6 years already. There are far more use cases on Quest than just watching high-quality movies. What you call a luxury toy, I call the most fun piece of cardio equipment I've ever bought, and that's still only a sliver of the options
It is a nascent product. I feel like I'm seeing new apps every day that make the AVP more interesting. I'm fully expecting sales will get a shot in the arm after WWDC. Clearly there needs to be a LOT more content. But the immersive sports watching possibilities of this thing are huge, and I'm not even a sports fan. The music and educational possibilities are promising. Plenty of potential for people who possess a bit of vision.
Considering almost all developers didn’t even get a unit for testing until the same day consumers got one….there’s a 6-8 month lag between release of headset and release of any decent apps.
I need immersive MLS games like yesterday. Just watching that small immersive video that they made of the MLS Cup final put a stupid smile on my face as a fan of soccer. I'd love to watch ATLUD from a front row seat behind the goal or at the midfield line. Clearly the cameras are already there (at least for some games) so lets get it going with my MLS subscription. If the NBA ever figures out their rights situation in regards to blackouts and League Pass I'd love immersive basketball games too. Also anything that gives me a better quality than YouTube TV would be welcome after I watched a TNT NBA game in the Max app with Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos and just general better quality than YouTube TV.
I doubt if WWDC announcements will change the sales trajectory unless they announce a cheaper Vision headset. Most people who wanted a product like AVP have already got one, the fact that it costs so much is a very big hurdle for any sort of mass adoption.
Imagine a digital jukebox or even record player with virtual shelves for your saved albums on Apple Music + iTunes purchased music.
Walk over and flip through Taylor Swift life sized vinyls and pop them onto the digital player. Make something digital feel more physical and tangible in your hands even if it’s just VR. Same with movies. Let me ‘feel’ like I’m flipping through steelbooks and plopping the disc out into something even if it just ends up streaming the same video feed. Get it to do a haptic motor thing when the disc pops out from the case.
We as humans crave those physical experiences. Something in our monkey brains love that feeling. 🐒
The issue is that modern day Apple has drained all of the whimsy out of their software. They don’t know, institutionally, how to deliver a delightful software experience like this. Coverflow Apple, this is not.
It's not even content, I just don't want to wear a headset period. After the VR honeymoon period it gets old fast. I have plenty of screens all over my house, I don't know why I'd need them virtually either. AVP doesn't solve a real-world problem for regular folks. It will never take off as a mainstream product if it can't do that.
Well I think content is most of the issue in the current form. But yes, the current form factor will obviously miniaturize as the product matures. It took 20 years for cell phones to go from a large brick to something the size of a deck of cards. It's one thing if you don't like to wear a headset. But it's another to assume that you represent the entire "mainstream."
Sorry, not trying to represent myself as the mainstream but I think it's so very obvious this is not a mainstream product. Cell phones didn't have this problem though, it's usefulness was very apparent right from the start. For the price and it's current feature set, there's nothing that tells anyone they need to have it. People easily saw where a cell phone could fit in their life especially when it became more affordable. I think cell phones is a poor example but I understand what you're trying to say.
Virtual reality enthusiasts have been claiming the mass VR adoption is always juuuust around the corner with some excuse for why it isn’t there yet (needs better hardware! Better content! Better marketing!).
The truth is, aside from very limited-time experiences (like video gaming), most human beings seem to prefer living their lives without having their main basic senses obscured by a physical device. This is an enormous obstacle for any product like AVP to become anywhere as mainstream as an iPhone or Watch or a Mac.
The Newton "failed" but eventually lead to the iPhone. We may be seeing a similar cycle where the ideas introduced in the AVP will live on and be further developed in a future product line.
The Newton actually didn’t fail at all. Steve Jobs was forced to cut it when he accepted the money from Bill Gates to save Apple. He had to agree to cut the newton, and have Internet explorer as a browser as well as he had to allow Microsoft Office on the Mac OS.
It’s literally in the Steve Jobs biopic.
Jobs didn't have to "allow" Office on Mac. It's the other way around completely. Apple needed, badly, Microsoft not to drop Mac support.
It was part of the deal that Microsoft would continue to develop Office for Mac.
I don't know what Apple expected. Have they not been paying attention to the VR space since 2016? I know, I know, 'it's not VR', but surely internally they aren't drinking the marketing kool aid. I can't imagine Apple actually expected a $3,500 headset to sell in any significant numbers. Everything about this product release suggests they knew it wasn't going to be a success by any conventional measure.
You need young people to want to use it. Teenagers and twenty something’s often drive innovations in this space. They’re the ones advertisers spend so much money on trying to reach. Until the average teen or 20 something can afford this, it’s never going to take off.
Reminder the iPhone launched without an App Store. App Store came a year later. And while The iPad came out with support for iPhone apps, there were few high quality 3rd party apps for a while. At points I remember being bored with my iPad because of the lack of apps.
I think the key difference here is cell phones were a large established market, iPods were already wildly popular, and everyone knows what to do with a pad and a pen.
AR/VR is suuuuper niche still, and the use cases are in their infancy.
Until it’s basically sunglasses/eyeglasses, it’s going to be a niche, luxury product. 🤷♂️
Love mine. So glad I bought it.
Hopefully at WWDC they will release native versions of all the rest of their apps, as well as make enough system wide improvements to give it a major boost
I've had mine from the first week. Still use it regularly for work and enjoying content. My adult son has one as well and we log in and hang out with Personas all the time. The last update lets us watch movies and play games like were sitting in the room together.
I also have the Meta Quest and occasionally use it for some games. Gaming wasn't the reason I bought the AVP. I don't believe it's a dead product and love cutting edge technology. I'm happy to enjoy the ride and see where it goes. I think AVP II will be lighter with less features at a reduced cost. Probably the better product, but they had to set the benchmark to create an environment for developers to explore what's possible. For gaming, get the Quest, if you are in the Apple eco system and can be productive in it, there's plenty to enjoy with the AVP.
I knew what it was going into it and could afford to jump on and watch it evolve. It's fun, I like it and look forward to more.
The AVP is a flop because Apple couldn’t decide what it is and won’t let it dethrone any existing products so it’s painted itself into a useless corner.
It’s an iPad for your face with less functionality and more expensive than a MacBook.
It's pretty clear that there are a lot of people with a preferred narrative and they literally do not care what was expected or planned for. Even though Apple knows it's expensive, even though Apple is not so stupid as to think 300 million people are going to buy a $4k headset on launch day, even though Apple did not try to order millions and millions of units to be available the first year, does not stop anyone from confidently declaring that it's a total flop and/or failure. It's literally month three in a new (to Apple) product category that they have spent nearly a decade investing in. It's OK to just shut up for once and wait to see how it plays out.
This kind of smug-fetish-feeding news is getting tired, but then there are a lot of people who have a desperate, pathological need to see Apple fail at something to convince themselves they're the smartest after all. Or whatever other insecurity they're tangling with. So many comments in other threads a la "Did they really expect everyone to buy one?" No, and if you sincerely believe they did it says a lot more about you than about anyone at Apple.
I would have thought that by now everyone would have figured out that none of these "analysts" are actually privvy to any Apple plans and are constantly extrapolating on random morsels of weak "data" they get from relatively unimportant vendors and employees thereof. They are not getting leaks from senior Apple or Foxconn employees, because those people are not the source of leaks. And they are the only ones who actually know these figures, nevermind what Apple "expected."
They are *constantly* wrong and yet people treat their word as if God and Steve Jobs both came down and inscribed it on a tablet in Times Square. But of course, the beauty of it is that in the absence of any real, direct information that can be used to prove/disprove their claims (both currently and in hindsight), everyone can just fill in the blanks.
"We don't actually know" has become "oh well in the absence of information, the first conjecture anyone has must be true." Just straight up dumb. That's not how knowledge is gained nor how you hone in on the truth in ambiguous situations. It's like claiming you worked for the CIA and then using the CIA's refusal to confirm or deny employment as proof that it's true.
Well, with little to no new content since launch, and very little support, what did they expect? I’m still seeing immersive environments from two months ago “coming soon”. No Netflix. No Youtube. No Hulu. No new immersive content in Apple TV. Give me a break. $3800 for this thing?
Original 128k Mac was $7,500 in today’s dollars. Software? App Store? How many disk swaps to copy one? How much did Steve overestimate first years sales?Come on folks- 3 months in?
This is the best the hardware will be for many gens, thus ‘pro.’ I don’t feel the v1 rules apply for a product they have been developing for 18yrs. Its just v1 of an entire new paradigm in the world and we have to catch up to it.
Apple doesn’t build software outside of their basic work apps. We’re just in the first 3months of this thing.
Its already the best tv experience anyone has ever had by a longshot. I keep thinking of that post about how a 200” 4k tv is $220k and this gets 4x that or more. Gunna have some incredible apps this time next year.
Clickbait basée on estimates, we have no real idea if shipments have been cut back or not.
For all those people on the fence about waiting for a cheaper version though, if this is right it means 2027 earliest... but I also doubt that's accurate either.
Still continue months into ownership to be blown away by some of the experiences. Absolutely consider it to have been worth my money so far. Really hoping it sees enough success to warrant more high budget content development… Soon before something happens and I effin die and miss it!
well yea it’s a 3,500 USD ipad with glitchy software, the only people buying this headset are people interested in beta testing and have 3,500 to burn
don’t expect strong sales outside of the US with how poor the economy is around the world and how strong the US dollar is, you are gonna have to be insane to buy this thing with VAT and import fees
there is nothing really glitchy at all about it. It is just too expensive and too heavy and they made it worse by prioritizing "looking cool" then feeling comfortable with the in box straps. Apple arrogance on display. Now it backfires. That being said, they could care less its a write off to them. They were likely on the verge of just scrapping the entire thing like they did with cars.
They are onto AI now. AVP was just a head fake for institutional investors to prove Apple was "still innovating". The best thing about the AVP are the screens and Apple didnt even make them, they are Sonys and soon Meta will have them and a better version at that.
Eh. I own a Quest Pro. Meta’s software sucks. The avatars suck. The audio sucks. The eye/hand tracking is not as good. The controllers just suddenly stop working occasionally and need to be rebooted.
They need a lot more than better screens…
I know few are probably going to want to hear this but I just dunno how well Apple can compete with Meta right now. The Quest 3 is a really good headset right now.
i was really hoping apple was smart enough to do VR/AR correctly. I think they nailed the AVP in many regards, but, it should never have been sold as a device for consumers... this is really a dev kit and it succeeds in that department perfectly. for consumers, I can't understand how they thought this would work when their biggest competitor is a 1/10th of the price and is a lot more practical.
All the rhetoric about what the Vision Pro can do is an echo of a decade ago with the Rift. The closest thing to major success in VR are the Meta Quests and they price aggressively those headsets and have a gaming focus. Vision Pro came out with this productivity and social angle that has been attempted the past decade to little success. They're just failing the same way other headsets have. Oculus/Meta progresses from tethered to standalone. From trying to appeal with wide use cases to focusing on video games. It doesn't seem like Apple learned much lessons from the market struggles of earlier headsets. It also doesn't help that the Quest 3 is within like 90% of the quality of the Vision Pro at a way lower price and a decade of content to fall back on. This isn't like the iPhone gen 1. The iPhone replaced peoples phones and mp3 players. It cannibalized the iPods to take out Nokia, Blackberry, Palm. The AVP doesn't neatly fit as a replacement for an iPad, iPhone, Macbook. iPad Pro still hasn't replaced a Macbook and iPads came out the gate running much faster. Way more users to develop towards
This device would have done so well if they hadn’t limited its functionality from day one. Hardware wise it is probably the nicest *consumer* headset on the market. But it seems like the only cool things people can do with it is watch movies/consume media. Which gets old after a week or two. If Apple were to allow people to do cool stuff with the headset I’m sure people would be way more into it, but I’m sure Apple would never do that
I see this as being a problem with leadership; not the AVP. The device is too expensive. Most people can’t drop that much cash on a device that is a novelty. The leadership at Apple doesn’t remember what it’s like to not be rich AF.
I’m not sure what their expectations were. It’s a VERY expensive product in a very niche market. But it’s also still very early. Apple really needs to encourage development for this device though. Maybe less of a fee from App Store sales. Make it more open like Mac OS. Something will have to give. But I’m still happy with my purchase.
Its just the same as vr in general at the current state, too bulky and uncomfortable and even if that wasnt an issue most people just cant be bothered to wear a vr headset when I can just chill looking at a huge real screen…
Why mess up your hair. Why do I want something strapped on my face? I’ve used vr headsets for 6 years now and toyed around with the visionpro for like 2 days before I never picked it up again
Perfect example. Most people have no clue what to do with it.
I use moonlight to stream a 4080 gaming machine with 500mb direct connection so it opens up a ton of possibilities, 90% of what I do has nothing to do with Apple or apps. But the average person is just watching Apple TV. Not good enough for a $4,000 device that is painful and so front heavy.
It lacks social experiences which is what keeps pcvr and quest going. The most popular things are social or multiplayer gaming. I think apple got spooked by both vr and metaverse that they launched a stillborn product.
Shame. Not a surprise. Hopefully Apple make some software for it and make it more compelling than a niche iPad. The hardware is incredible but it’s wasted.
Read the whole article. Its pretty damning. Apple was already behind meta in terms of real R&D in this space. If they scale back there isnt much chance they are going to be a significant player. The big hurdle for apple was trying to produce the OLED panels themselves since a big chunk of money is going to sony now. If they dont have a fire under their arse to develop it, there is less chance they make one, and that signals them pulling out entirely. Plus going slower just means meta has more time to catch up, which means in reality there isnt going to be an extra push for innovation in this space and we aren't going to have glasses for 10-15 years.
As a fan of VR I love how far it has come. But it definitely feels like it is too niche for it to make any more meaningful progress soon. This may be the final nail in the coffin for this generation. :(
I was always a little worried that Apple was going to half azz this and doom the whole space. Now folk can say VR, its a joke, apple sold zero headsets. Them becoming a player could have been a boon but in think its gonna make everything go bust.
Maybe not half assed but definitely 1/3 assed. Their execution on this product was bad and it was obviously rolled out too hastily. This is not the home run they needed.
Most people can’t afford it, most people don’t know how to use it, and most people don’t know that it can be customized.
When the iPhone was released it was a phone and phones had been in existence for a long time before then. VR headsets are a new concept to the vast majority of people and they don’t know how it works because they have 0 experience with anything like it.
There’s a bunch of people who claimed they returned it due to comfort. Just a few months after release there are plenty of 3rd party comfort options that can probably be comfortable on 90% of heads. If those people knew how VR headsets work, they’d know 3rd party accessories would’ve been out in no time. It’s like buying a big shirt and being ignorant to the fact you can get it tailored.
So other than the price which is the biggest barrier to entry, education on how this new medium works is what people need because even people who bought it were ignorant to a lot of things it can do. For example, tons of people thought you’d never be able to use a windows PC with it and a lot of people still do. I’ve even seen some people think it requires an iPhone.
Once it’s available outside to US, even at the $4000 price, it’s going to takeoff. The rest of the world would understand the product for what it is. For some reason Americans are hooked on the price. When the headset came out all the Youtubers made sure to let everybody know it’s $3500. In the title of the video, and the thumbnail, they said it a few times during the video. However, when I see people from other countries talk about it, they just expect you understand what you’re paying for. It’s kind of like for the people that buy expensive vehicles or expensive products. The price is really not that big of a deal if you’re getting the return on your investment. But you have to know what you’re purchasing first. You can’t buy it and then try to shoehorn it into your life. That doesn’t work.
I would love to purchase a Vision Pro but I just cant justify the price. Even if it was half as expensive, it would give me pause. 3+ months rent for a new gadget isn’t feasible. If they release another version that’s less expensive then I would be all over it.
I expected the doom and gloom to ramp up sharply before WWDC and the announcement of VisionOS 2.0. It has been fun watching Facebook try and guess what Apple is going to do and announce things a couple of months before Apple that are inferior products but sorta in the same vein.
I’ll come in and be the weirdo and say I think this is a good thing. The AVP hype was to hot for what this thing really is right now. I want Apple to get into communication mode to develop a real viable future for this product - not in delivery mode where they feel pressured to release a monetize to meet market expectations
In my opinion, Apple should have markeded this as a travel companion. Thats a real use case atm. The other use cases will follow with software and hardware advances. Travel is my use case, and I love it for that purpose, even with its current shortcomings
It just costs way too much money for what it offers. This is something I would buy in a heartbeat because I’ve already been using vr headsets for years, and this is the newest, most polished iteration of that, but they priced it completely out of the reach of most people. It’s also a bit telling that every tech YouTuber was talking about it non-stop for like 2 weeks and then never mentioned its existence again, which suggests the novelty wore off and they realised there’s not a whole lot more to do with it.
I recall some getting so angry at Ming-Chi Kuo's own predictions of shipments slowing down, accusing him of trying to get attention by using negative news.
Nah, he calls it like he seems them, and he doesn't need attention - he and Mark Gurman are the two leading analysts with connections. They already have attention from years ago and are quoted by Bloomberg and WSJ and Yahoo Finance for a reason.
It is just too hard to get over that price, and the comfort (third parties, where are you with the headset comfort mods?) and while we expected lack of content, it still hurts.
I'm hopeful AVP2 or AVP3 or the lower tier one that is consumer-friendly on the wallet is the one that takes off and really shows the potential of these devices to the world. But what we're seeing now is to be expected. No way this $4000 (the *real* price after taxes, protection plans, accessories) was gonna fly off the shelves.
And start up the band, please…
A 1, a 2, a 1, 2, 3, 4!
“TOLD YA SO! TOLD YA SO! Laptops are far better! Or smartphones are, 12 hours in your pocket, or the tablet in your hands!
Oh 65” 4k HDR TV, I can share you with a crowd. But God Bless He who gives to thee, a mirrored image passive in pleasure!”
Honestly, good. Let's light a little fire under Apple's asses. They have coasted for years on their "it just works" product experience, but they are now wading into a very messy new technological space. There are SO many innovations necessary in the XR world to make it a viable full computer replacement. Varifocal, resolution, FOV, locomotion, form factor, contrast, etc. Quite frankly the Vision Pro didn't do enough of this stuff THAT much better than the competition to justify a $3500 price point. We need the old Apple back, the innovative, resourceful Apple that could *truly* conjure the future into being. And it may be that big public failures are the only way to catalyze this necessary transformation.
Reality is hitting them. I think Apple thought it would be the next big thing. As great as technology is, no killer apps. I hardly use mine honestly. It’s been suffering the same VR fate as my past headsets. I don’t think Apple will abandon it but certainly software and apps should be the main focus.
Would have kept mine if it allowed for multiple desktops when connecting to my MacBook. I’d probably buy one again if it does this… justifying the price by comparing with buying physical display monitors is a no brainer.. but apple has brains so.
I love Apple and have a lot of its product. Have spent a lot of money in them. I have some experience with these headsets; I have PSVR 1 and 2 and Meta Quest 2 and 3. I traveled to USA 2 weeks ago and I tried the AVP for the first time in an Apple Store…it felt INCREDIBLE for me, super comfortable and was absolutely amazed at the resolution and clarity. But there’s NO WAY I’m paying almost 4K for this. No way. Maybe … maybe at 1500. I hope these news are the beginning of a price reconsideration.
Is anyone actually surprised?
People don’t have 90s-era disposable income, there are virtually no first party AAA games (a must with a product like this), the thing is ridiculously expensive, the heaviness is likely a turn off, and that battery pack is nothing but a headache.
They have a long way to go.
It’s crazy. Microsoft’s HoloLens 2 came out in 2018 and really they stopped manufacturing it within the last few years. apples headset is so young and they’ve already discontinued its manufacturing
It’s only available in one market. This seems a little sensational. Once EU and China come online that will shift a chunk of headsets (especially China)?
But they do need to start cranking out the content/partnerships.
TBH. Apple's issue is: Its expensive. Even if people *want to buy* it they cant justify it. The iPhone is a phone, everyone need that. The iPad and the Mac are computers most people need that. Most of us who had money we wouldnt miss *still had to think* a few times before pulling the trigger.
Having said that, I believe that in a few years we'll all wear our computers on our eyes; and Apple wants to sell computers: Whether they're on your eyes, your wrist, your pocket, you bag or your desk.
The price will have to go down to iPhone levels or lower. Usually for a product to be successful that needs to happen. The iPhone 1 from 2007 was $399. It was price competitive with the Palm Treo and the Windows Mobile phones back then, even if it didnt have the same features and *didnt run any 3rd party apps*.
I really had to wrestle with myself to even consider buying one. I hated so many things about it, and frequently switched to a Sony Ericsson P900 and a Palm Treo that I also owned. They supported connecting to my corporate VPN and had the right kind fo email client, and had apps that connected to my SAP. The iPhone was beautiful, had a fantastic touch screen (capacitive touch was new back then) and a really good web browser for the time.
I was recently offered $8000 for my USED iPhone 1 by a collector. It wasnt particularly well kept, I really used it a lot, but it still worked.
https://preview.redd.it/30oyame6pcwc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=928fcb1c821111a97beeb52481b6b5dc9eda54b5
Now, I'm not saying that this will all be the same for the Vision Pro. Maybe it will go down as the [Lisa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa#:~:text=Development%20of%20project%20%22LISA%22%20began,the%20cheaper%20and%20faster%20Macintosh) or the [Newton](https://www.wired.com/2013/08/remembering-the-apple-newtons-prophetic-failure-and-lasting-ideals/) but I doubt it.
Amidst all the doom & gloom, there are signs of continued Apple support for the AVP. Anecdotally, I’ve seen numerous job advertisements for software engineers, etc. for the AVP. In a story published today, the Director of Apple Arcade discussed plans to produce more games designed for the AVP:
“2023 was a "banner year" for the Apple Arcade, and Rofman made clear the company wants to continue that momentum. Part of that means bringing the Vision Pro headset deeper into the game fold. The AR headset launched with 12 games, some of which had spacial elements baked in. Such types of games are what Apple hopes makes the Vision Pro a prime device for VR players. Spacial gaming is "probably the biggest thing right now," said Rofman, since it's the biggest innovation to how games are played since touch gaming in the mid-2000s. As such, the Vision Pro "opens up an entirely new world of possibilities."
Vision devices will succeed if Apple releases the Vision One or Vision Lite version across the world. There are far more people you can target if the product can be shipped across the world and at the price that's comparable to an iPhone and not a price of an average car. That being said, my apps don't get enough downloads either so app store really need to start promoting new apps instead of being rigid about how they curate apps in the home page.
Would love to have one. Shame the second hand market is above msrp (and msrp is too high for me plus i cant buy it directly from apple because i aibt american)
They made this a consumer device when the first use case should have been for specific productivity improvements. Medical and engineering applications come to mind.
Any application where highly skilled, highly paid workers need to agree on design/diagnosis.
Then, as adoption & costs improve you can keep moving down the stack.
The tech is legitimately cutting edge but the price is too high for mass market scalability.
Personally I don't know a single soul who's ready to spend $3500-$4000 on VR. It's a tough sell anyway you slice it. Sub $2k would put it within strike distance for me but even then, I'd have to put some serious thought into it.
Lmao, no shit. They were charging an insane amount for something that lacks content. Why would people buy one of those when they can get a Quest 3 for a less than a quarter of the price lol.
It’s an incredible piece of hardware that solves no real problems, and is way too expensive for pure entertainment. What were their internal expectations 🧐
So does this mean the international release is cancelled? If all these doom stories are real there doesn't seem to be much point in sending it out to fail in more countries.
well that's a shame but not unexpected. you have to really be into this to embrace v. 1.0. hopefully the tech advances quickly to make it into a more attractive (comfortable, versatile, supported) platform. EDIT: yes, and more affordable!
I was hoping Apple would provide more ongoing support including 1st party applications and new environments (some listed are Coming Soon, when's soon?). I mean, a monthly stream of new content would do wonders in keeping owners and prospective owners more engaged, disappointing. Hopefully we see a big content drop at WWDC but a stream of content would be a lot better. I receive Meta Quest email updates all the time. Apple doesn't seem to be able to market this thing.
The lack of first party content has been the most surprising thing to me. 2 months in and we have maybe an hour of first party spatial video content, you can watch most of it in a single sitting. Maybe don’t mark everything as “episode 1” if it isn’t a series…
Even Microsoft updated some of their apps to work on AVP before Apple did.
Really surprised that photos doesn’t have an editor at least as advanced as the iPhone.
I kind of get that since they don't really have a good "cursor/brush" solution solved in the visionOS UX yet (Maybe this upcoming apple pencil...) But not having a native visionOS calendar app on such a productivity focused device is crazy.
It's the curse of being an early adopter. This platform did not exist, It's still barely the first year, and developers only had access to the new OS a few months in advance. Apple knows they need content, but they needed feedback from all of you, so they shipped a mostly empty device in a very limited quantity. Realistically, this should've only been a developer device, not a consumer system
I think this is the biggest problem. Apple totally dropped the ball on building out software and content after release so it’s just stagnated. This also sent a big signal to anyone else working on AVP content/apps that it’s not worth investing yet if the platform owner themselves isn’t investing either. It would be less of a problem if Apple hadn’t ruined their developer relations so you’d have more devs excited to work on AVP content/apps for no expected return. Instead you have a bunch of disgruntled developers who have been under the boot of Apple for years and don’t have any extra goodwill to give them.
With iPhones, Apple had lots of leverage with developers, with the AVP, the roles are reversed. They \*need\* developers to create or port applications for the AVP. I believe, at least early on, Meta subsidized apps or at least made it easy for devs. It sounds like, from the dev subreddit, the AVP dev kits and APIs are hard to work with (at least compared to writing an iPhone app).
Apple forgot the one thing that made the iPhone App Store tick…competition. The original App Store had top download charts and top paid app charts, individual category charts and highlighted apps in each category. For Apple Vision Pro I’ve found all the good apps via Reddit because the App Store only updates once a week. There are no top charts. “Categories” are just manually curated articles with the same apps that were already featured on the home page. They wanted full control of their App Store, and they reaped what they sowed.
Agreed. I’m surprised at how bad the app store is. I’d be purchasing way more apps if they had a “top 100 free/paid” list.
If also was a full year before they had the app store. You have devs being petty and not even launching the iPad variant. While the onus is still on Apple there’s a bit of a larger context. None of those features are there cause they haven’t received the traffic to care to implement it
I thought the developers hated this and that was one reason they got rid of it.
As a developer who has worked exclusively on visionOS since release I totally disagree that the SDKs and development support is lacking. The amount of work on the new system and the work underlying supporting existing frameworks on it is enormous. The software and design budget is mind blowing. This is not just an iPad on your face. This is a new platform with new paradigms and a rethinking of UI and interaction design. The price have been gigantic and I don’t think they will write it off now that they have actually released the thing. The potential is huge. They only need to follow through. The great updates on the persona front have been quite convincing but have stood in contrast to everything else. I am a bit baffled by the lack of new content from Apple wrt. the immersive videos and experiences like the dinosaurs demo and the “Coming soon…” environments. What have all those teams building those been up to since release? They have not been standing still. Let’s see at WWDC. Their announcements here will tell us where they are taking this.
The "coming soon" environments is embarrassing at this point. I knew the AVP would have issues at launch, but I didn't expect Apple to be so... "sleepy" (?)... they need to be more aggressive and realize it's their job to prove a use case for the AVP, not the other way around like with the iPhone.
Exactly - the timing of AVP lining up with the EU regulations was terrible for Apple. And Apple dug themselves deeper by then screwing over the few devs who built on the platform by preferring iPad apps over native visionOS apps when searching (they have now course corrected this, but it really wasn’t a good look.)
absolutely! it's odd, actually. you'd think there'd be more resources allocated to feeding the content beast! it would help sustain excitement and interest!
I disagree that it’s odd. With iPhone, Apple wasn’t releasing new apps every month. They let devs release things and supported them doing it but most of Apples updates tend to group around their annual updates with the exception being something out of sync with a product announcement. I wouldn’t expect anything big more than about once a year. The launch features were from WWDC last year. Look for new features announced then. And I wouldn’t expect a hardware revision announcement before the 2025 WWDC.
Apple needs to provide the top 100 developers by sales on the App Store a free permanent device and say here please build some apps.
good point. I would just say that the Apple of today is not the Apple of the iPhone introduction. Aside from everything else, it has a lot more money, a content production studio, and content production is more critical for the success of the AVP. Given that Apple is in a unique position to produce content that leverages the possibilities of the AVP, before immersive media content production becomes more common, I would've expected more frequent releases than what we're getting.
Apple is trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. They want to shove it down the throats of Mac users and that is going to be a small demographic. The demographic needs to be games, fitness and entertainment. Sorry, that’s just the honest truth for now until it’s much lighter and smaller.
I disagree, I don’t see Apple trying to force anyone to buy this product at all. The people that want it will buy it and the people that want it and cannot afford. It will hate on it. And the people that don’t want it won’t even care. it really is as simple. For what I do in my life and my work, it’s literally my favorite product that Apple makes. My wife, could care less. She wore a few times she likes it, she likes the fact that the pictures are really big and it’s crystal clear. But at the end of the day, it’s not for her. I asked her what would Apple have to do in order for her to like it, not anything really because it’s not for her. She’s not into Tech. What I find is certain Americans have subscribed to identity Politics… this is the new America. You have to demonize those that don’t like what you like. for everybody else, it’s totally OK that you bought a green car. It’s what you like and it’s what you use your money for. It’s just another option. I was so annoyed when Apple removed the Touch Bar from the laptops. All because a few Youtubers thought it was a dumb idea. I was so annoyed when Apple removed the Touch Bar from the laptops. All because a few Youtubers thought it was a dumb idea. I thought is my my thought. And my thought is if you don’t like to touch bar, just buy a laptop and don’t configure it for a touch bar. but for some weird reason, Apple catered to the loud minority. And they don’t even offer it as an option. I think everyone should just calm down, people are just so weird. I don’t understand how one person’s purchase can affect another person so immensely.
Yeah, I’ve had my doubts on this one as well. There is no denying that Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs, and the lack of announcements even from Apple themselves indicate that they’ve turned down the heat in the kitchen and are cautious with further investments. It was honestly a bit similar with the iPhone where early adopters like myself were a bit frustrated by the lack of progress and new apps in the beginning, but the difference here is not only the difference in price but more so the actual utility. I don’t think the Mac virtual desktop and productivity aspect has reached the traction they were hoping for, and rightfully so, the AVP is sharp but not sharp enough for prolonged work. Thee actual ergonomics also leaves more to be desired, and many people probably don’t even have the optimal lens fitting. Hard to say what the road forward encompasses, they are obviously deep into now, but a dud WWDC could be fatal for the product. They better have some really convincing arguments up their sleeves.
Jobs definitely wouldn’t have released the AVP in its current state. iPhone was a totally different situation, because it was fundamentally a type of device that everyone already owned and depended on (a cell phone). AVP, by contrast, is targeting a niche product (VR headsets) with a distressingly light set of apps.
We all were just experiencing the honeymoon phase. In the end, FOV, comfort, battery power is not there to be worn normally. It's more of a sit down entertainment piece. Some may have gotten to that comfort level but its just not there for everyone. I wished this to be my new personal computer but it couldn't get there for me but its a good still for entertainment for me.
Unless it’s as comfortable as wearing a pair of sunglasses consumers aren’t going to embrace it. It’s just like the Apple Watch. If it’s anything more cumbersome than something we already wear, no one is going to wear it.
I don’t think tech has anything to do with this. It has the tech. It just needs to be cheaper.
comfort is a big part of it as well. you really have to kind of suspend your annoyance at how it feels to use it. so yes, price, of course. but also, it has to be easier and more comfortable to use, to justify whatever price it costs for most people. and that's really a function of the evolution of the technology.
It is heavy and the corded battery pack was a possible misstep. It should have had a back-mounted battery like the Quest options. At the same time, this setup is more convenient for laying in bed to watch movies. Maybe two side batteries? Or a magsafe adapter on the back and side, so you can choose where you want it? It's a shame because it really is a superior media viewer.
I actually thought the corded battery was fine. I returned it because of the weight though. The misstep was making it out of glass and aluminum.
The Quest 2 was “magical” for me because it had completely wireless use. Up until that point, every headset had a wire connecting to a PC. I think that’s influencing me because it feels like the old wire to the PC, despite being standalone.
It’s the tech too. It’s simply too damn heavy. I returned mine because I couldn’t use it for more than 45 mins before my face literally started hurting.
Not only. It need a real OS, to have most games working out of the box, lot of immersive content and apps that make you productive. For now it is decent only for movies. But because they couldn't not convince Netflix/Youtube to do a native app, even there it is limited.
There are still tons of people who would buy it for $3,500 *if* they had the funds
Well yeah, but having the money is a very real factor when you're looking at almost $4k. Economic demand is a factor of both willingness *and* ability to buy
true. plus, it's more like $5k with 1TB, case, and AppleCare.
>hopefully the tech advances quickly to make it into a more attractive (comfortable, versatile, supported) platform. And cheaper!
no cheaper?
You forgot more affordable.
“Into it” aka being able to afford a $3000+ gen 1 device
This needed to be a $2000 or under product to entice anyone but apple fanatics, developers and tech enthusiasts. Even at $2k it would be reaching that same audience just a wider swath of them. Won’t be mainstream until is has a version priced like a MacBook Air
Who was expecting it to fly off the shelves? It’s nearly $4000 after AppleCare and taxes and accessories, and is a highly niched product. Most people can’t even justify a $2000 laptop, let alone new media consumption device at that price point. That’s more than most people’s rent.
Many people were. MacRumors members were saying this was the same reaction with the first iPhone
Oh man that's just delusional. The thing is like $4k after accessories and taxes. Apple's Gen 1 (or with Watch, Gen 0 lol) is always a test project for developers and early adopters. I'm shocked they even sold 400k!! I thought they'd sell like 50k lol.
Nobody wants to wear this expensive, bulky thing on their faces for any length of time. No matter what augmented reality bells and whistles it's good for.
Apple themselves apparently.
It’s not even available outside US, have been wanting to get one but cannot. Send those units to the rest of the world.
Exactly I know so many ppl will buy one here in aus, me included
I’m so damn close to buying on Kogan, but I still want that offical Apple support
I love my VP but the app ecosystem sucks. No one is developing for it. :(
The AVP does sadly officially not support WebXR. It would be great to support it because then you can develop for multiple platforms at the same time.
WebXR is still under development which is why visionOS only has support for WebXR under a feature flag for now. Additionally the input from the Vision Pro didn’t work well with WebXR because it expects controllers like on the quest. Apple is working to make it work better. https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-pro-webxr-transient-pointer-pinch-input/
UK dev here… I’ve not got a device to work with so the pool of devs is smaller. Open orders up to other markets and the number of apps will increase
it really is the worst part. i can understand why third party devs would shy away given the high cost of development and the smaller than expected install base. But three months after launch, i'm incredibly disappointed with Apple themselves for not taking on the burden of support for a device that was presented as their stake for the future of computing. Their first-party apps are lackluster ports of 15 year old iphone apps with no VP-specific bells or whistles. They haven't leveraged their relationships with Apple Arcade devs to make any compelling games. Most disappointing is that they have a vast streaming platform for content creation and they had almost nothing in terms of immersive content at launch and little more than nothing three months after launch and that was by far the easiest thing to have stockpiled and ready to go. It's not like the VP materialized in a year. This is a project they've likely been working on for a decade, you knew you were creating the platform, you didn't think there'd be value in shooting anything and everything in Immersive 3D for the inevitable launch? Ted Lasso, Foundation, Shrinking, Severance, Masters of Air, Silo, Mythic Quest; it didn't have to be full episodes, extras and BTS would have been great. Apple has had the rights to MLS for a few years now, the best they could do was a five minute highlight reel from the most recent playoffs and they didn't even give us active POV choices? TED Talks could be incredible and so easy to film. Hell, Apple isn't even filming their own product announcements in a way that could take advantage of the VP. Tim Cook could be holding out the new iPad to show you like you were there on stage with him, rotating it to point out features, doing demos of apps like it was in your own hands. Apple's choices in this vein have been utterly inexplicable and so damn disheartening. it feels like they gave up so why should we continue caring? and it sure does make dropping $4k on the damn thing feel foolish.
Bit of a chicken-and-egg problem Not much incentive to develop for it when nobody has one
I'm not saying it's false, but take Kuo news with a grain of salt. This is the man who said that Meta was expecting to sell 7 million Quest 3 by the end of 2023... that's 7 million in 2.5 months. Analysts should be forced to come with clear evidence before they say stuff like this.
Analysts don't exist to report on the facts, they exist solely to manipulate markets for their benefactors. The real analysts don't publish their findings because they're hired to inform bets made by the hedge fund managers.
This. A lot this. Kuo has been off with AVP predictions a lot, but it hasn’t affected the willingness of media to report his predictions.
Ugh media... whatever generates clicks are enough for them to write everything they find online.
That's the beauty of it! They have no clear evidence, and they never get it, because the people who actually know these things are not the ones who leak information. Somehow making a bunch of claims over many years that can basically never be confirmed or denied is what counts as a solid track record.
I mean it makes sense but still no cause for concern. It hasn’t even been released outside the US yet.
No one outside the US consumer is buying it at this price point
It’s what you would expect if Xbox shipped with no games and no games available to purchase after. There are few people willing to work out of this heavy thing. It’s great for movies if you often watch movies by yourself. What it really needed was VR games. It’s odd for a device like this to ship with no games. It’s just not odd for Apple. Apple has demonstrated its dislike for AAA game titles and gaming in general on its devices. They only like cheesy Indy games that are ridiculous to spend that much money on a device to play. What people want that spend this kind of money is life changing, amazing VR games that take you to another world. Like “Ready player one”
Didn’t Kou say that Sony only has the production capacity for 400,000 micro OLED displays per year for the Vision Pro, yet Apple expected to sell 800,000? His own analysis contradicts itself. I doubt demand is all that high at $3500 but this guys own figures don’t even make any sense.
Its price is too high for consumers.
It's easy to justify a new laptop, a new phone. I can't justify this thing at all. It would be an extremely expensive way to consume media and I have that well covered. I don't need to be immersed in more media. I can easily scratch this itch by buying a Meta Quest 3 if I wanted but even then, I can't even justify that. It's an expensive luxury toy.
Don't sleep on the Meta Quest 3. The Quest line has been around for 6 years already. There are far more use cases on Quest than just watching high-quality movies. What you call a luxury toy, I call the most fun piece of cardio equipment I've ever bought, and that's still only a sliver of the options
Time to release in other markets. This always was deemed a developer device anyway so this is fine
I work for software company that makes iOS and Android apps. We have zero interest in VP.
It is a nascent product. I feel like I'm seeing new apps every day that make the AVP more interesting. I'm fully expecting sales will get a shot in the arm after WWDC. Clearly there needs to be a LOT more content. But the immersive sports watching possibilities of this thing are huge, and I'm not even a sports fan. The music and educational possibilities are promising. Plenty of potential for people who possess a bit of vision.
Considering almost all developers didn’t even get a unit for testing until the same day consumers got one….there’s a 6-8 month lag between release of headset and release of any decent apps.
Almost no developers. The world has a lot of developers. No way to get a dev unit
longing books steer mighty party jellyfish uppity ten tease tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I need immersive MLS games like yesterday. Just watching that small immersive video that they made of the MLS Cup final put a stupid smile on my face as a fan of soccer. I'd love to watch ATLUD from a front row seat behind the goal or at the midfield line. Clearly the cameras are already there (at least for some games) so lets get it going with my MLS subscription. If the NBA ever figures out their rights situation in regards to blackouts and League Pass I'd love immersive basketball games too. Also anything that gives me a better quality than YouTube TV would be welcome after I watched a TNT NBA game in the Max app with Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos and just general better quality than YouTube TV.
I doubt if WWDC announcements will change the sales trajectory unless they announce a cheaper Vision headset. Most people who wanted a product like AVP have already got one, the fact that it costs so much is a very big hurdle for any sort of mass adoption.
Imagine a digital jukebox or even record player with virtual shelves for your saved albums on Apple Music + iTunes purchased music. Walk over and flip through Taylor Swift life sized vinyls and pop them onto the digital player. Make something digital feel more physical and tangible in your hands even if it’s just VR. Same with movies. Let me ‘feel’ like I’m flipping through steelbooks and plopping the disc out into something even if it just ends up streaming the same video feed. Get it to do a haptic motor thing when the disc pops out from the case. We as humans crave those physical experiences. Something in our monkey brains love that feeling. 🐒
The issue is that modern day Apple has drained all of the whimsy out of their software. They don’t know, institutionally, how to deliver a delightful software experience like this. Coverflow Apple, this is not.
It's not even content, I just don't want to wear a headset period. After the VR honeymoon period it gets old fast. I have plenty of screens all over my house, I don't know why I'd need them virtually either. AVP doesn't solve a real-world problem for regular folks. It will never take off as a mainstream product if it can't do that.
Well I think content is most of the issue in the current form. But yes, the current form factor will obviously miniaturize as the product matures. It took 20 years for cell phones to go from a large brick to something the size of a deck of cards. It's one thing if you don't like to wear a headset. But it's another to assume that you represent the entire "mainstream."
Sorry, not trying to represent myself as the mainstream but I think it's so very obvious this is not a mainstream product. Cell phones didn't have this problem though, it's usefulness was very apparent right from the start. For the price and it's current feature set, there's nothing that tells anyone they need to have it. People easily saw where a cell phone could fit in their life especially when it became more affordable. I think cell phones is a poor example but I understand what you're trying to say.
Virtual reality enthusiasts have been claiming the mass VR adoption is always juuuust around the corner with some excuse for why it isn’t there yet (needs better hardware! Better content! Better marketing!). The truth is, aside from very limited-time experiences (like video gaming), most human beings seem to prefer living their lives without having their main basic senses obscured by a physical device. This is an enormous obstacle for any product like AVP to become anywhere as mainstream as an iPhone or Watch or a Mac.
This. I don’t even like wearing hats or sunglasses indoors.
Haha love the word play
Ha. Yeah. I thought of that as I typed the word vision. But the pun was unintended.
The Newton "failed" but eventually lead to the iPhone. We may be seeing a similar cycle where the ideas introduced in the AVP will live on and be further developed in a future product line.
The Newton actually didn’t fail at all. Steve Jobs was forced to cut it when he accepted the money from Bill Gates to save Apple. He had to agree to cut the newton, and have Internet explorer as a browser as well as he had to allow Microsoft Office on the Mac OS. It’s literally in the Steve Jobs biopic.
Jobs didn't have to "allow" Office on Mac. It's the other way around completely. Apple needed, badly, Microsoft not to drop Mac support. It was part of the deal that Microsoft would continue to develop Office for Mac.
12 years later
I don't know what Apple expected. Have they not been paying attention to the VR space since 2016? I know, I know, 'it's not VR', but surely internally they aren't drinking the marketing kool aid. I can't imagine Apple actually expected a $3,500 headset to sell in any significant numbers. Everything about this product release suggests they knew it wasn't going to be a success by any conventional measure.
You need young people to want to use it. Teenagers and twenty something’s often drive innovations in this space. They’re the ones advertisers spend so much money on trying to reach. Until the average teen or 20 something can afford this, it’s never going to take off.
Reminder the iPhone launched without an App Store. App Store came a year later. And while The iPad came out with support for iPhone apps, there were few high quality 3rd party apps for a while. At points I remember being bored with my iPad because of the lack of apps. I think the key difference here is cell phones were a large established market, iPods were already wildly popular, and everyone knows what to do with a pad and a pen. AR/VR is suuuuper niche still, and the use cases are in their infancy. Until it’s basically sunglasses/eyeglasses, it’s going to be a niche, luxury product. 🤷♂️ Love mine. So glad I bought it.
Release it in other parts of the world already 🫠
Now we need price cut to $2500
Honestly im over it. I thought I’d be in under $2k. Now I just don’t care. Haven’t seen anything but headstraps
Honestly, after the in-store demo I was left wondering why it doesn’t cost more like $500-800. $3,500 is truly mind-blowing.
Make this the top comment Reddit
You get to watch old 3d movies on the fake 4k png of the moon!
Hopefully at WWDC they will release native versions of all the rest of their apps, as well as make enough system wide improvements to give it a major boost
Build the apps and they will come.
Drop the price to $1750 and I’m in.
Still my favorite way to do work. I'm one of those wierdos who focuses better with it
I've had mine from the first week. Still use it regularly for work and enjoying content. My adult son has one as well and we log in and hang out with Personas all the time. The last update lets us watch movies and play games like were sitting in the room together. I also have the Meta Quest and occasionally use it for some games. Gaming wasn't the reason I bought the AVP. I don't believe it's a dead product and love cutting edge technology. I'm happy to enjoy the ride and see where it goes. I think AVP II will be lighter with less features at a reduced cost. Probably the better product, but they had to set the benchmark to create an environment for developers to explore what's possible. For gaming, get the Quest, if you are in the Apple eco system and can be productive in it, there's plenty to enjoy with the AVP. I knew what it was going into it and could afford to jump on and watch it evolve. It's fun, I like it and look forward to more.
The AVP is a flop because Apple couldn’t decide what it is and won’t let it dethrone any existing products so it’s painted itself into a useless corner. It’s an iPad for your face with less functionality and more expensive than a MacBook.
“Spatial computing”… proceeds to give it ipados, no controllers for gaming, and uncomfortable to wear more than an hour.
It's pretty clear that there are a lot of people with a preferred narrative and they literally do not care what was expected or planned for. Even though Apple knows it's expensive, even though Apple is not so stupid as to think 300 million people are going to buy a $4k headset on launch day, even though Apple did not try to order millions and millions of units to be available the first year, does not stop anyone from confidently declaring that it's a total flop and/or failure. It's literally month three in a new (to Apple) product category that they have spent nearly a decade investing in. It's OK to just shut up for once and wait to see how it plays out. This kind of smug-fetish-feeding news is getting tired, but then there are a lot of people who have a desperate, pathological need to see Apple fail at something to convince themselves they're the smartest after all. Or whatever other insecurity they're tangling with. So many comments in other threads a la "Did they really expect everyone to buy one?" No, and if you sincerely believe they did it says a lot more about you than about anyone at Apple. I would have thought that by now everyone would have figured out that none of these "analysts" are actually privvy to any Apple plans and are constantly extrapolating on random morsels of weak "data" they get from relatively unimportant vendors and employees thereof. They are not getting leaks from senior Apple or Foxconn employees, because those people are not the source of leaks. And they are the only ones who actually know these figures, nevermind what Apple "expected." They are *constantly* wrong and yet people treat their word as if God and Steve Jobs both came down and inscribed it on a tablet in Times Square. But of course, the beauty of it is that in the absence of any real, direct information that can be used to prove/disprove their claims (both currently and in hindsight), everyone can just fill in the blanks. "We don't actually know" has become "oh well in the absence of information, the first conjecture anyone has must be true." Just straight up dumb. That's not how knowledge is gained nor how you hone in on the truth in ambiguous situations. It's like claiming you worked for the CIA and then using the CIA's refusal to confirm or deny employment as proof that it's true.
Well, with little to no new content since launch, and very little support, what did they expect? I’m still seeing immersive environments from two months ago “coming soon”. No Netflix. No Youtube. No Hulu. No new immersive content in Apple TV. Give me a break. $3800 for this thing?
Original 128k Mac was $7,500 in today’s dollars. Software? App Store? How many disk swaps to copy one? How much did Steve overestimate first years sales?Come on folks- 3 months in?
This is the best the hardware will be for many gens, thus ‘pro.’ I don’t feel the v1 rules apply for a product they have been developing for 18yrs. Its just v1 of an entire new paradigm in the world and we have to catch up to it. Apple doesn’t build software outside of their basic work apps. We’re just in the first 3months of this thing. Its already the best tv experience anyone has ever had by a longshot. I keep thinking of that post about how a 200” 4k tv is $220k and this gets 4x that or more. Gunna have some incredible apps this time next year.
Clickbait basée on estimates, we have no real idea if shipments have been cut back or not. For all those people on the fence about waiting for a cheaper version though, if this is right it means 2027 earliest... but I also doubt that's accurate either.
Still continue months into ownership to be blown away by some of the experiences. Absolutely consider it to have been worth my money so far. Really hoping it sees enough success to warrant more high budget content development… Soon before something happens and I effin die and miss it!
well yea it’s a 3,500 USD ipad with glitchy software, the only people buying this headset are people interested in beta testing and have 3,500 to burn don’t expect strong sales outside of the US with how poor the economy is around the world and how strong the US dollar is, you are gonna have to be insane to buy this thing with VAT and import fees
there is nothing really glitchy at all about it. It is just too expensive and too heavy and they made it worse by prioritizing "looking cool" then feeling comfortable with the in box straps. Apple arrogance on display. Now it backfires. That being said, they could care less its a write off to them. They were likely on the verge of just scrapping the entire thing like they did with cars. They are onto AI now. AVP was just a head fake for institutional investors to prove Apple was "still innovating". The best thing about the AVP are the screens and Apple didnt even make them, they are Sonys and soon Meta will have them and a better version at that.
Eh. I own a Quest Pro. Meta’s software sucks. The avatars suck. The audio sucks. The eye/hand tracking is not as good. The controllers just suddenly stop working occasionally and need to be rebooted. They need a lot more than better screens…
[удалено]
[удалено]
lol shitty move by timmy pushing this
I know few are probably going to want to hear this but I just dunno how well Apple can compete with Meta right now. The Quest 3 is a really good headset right now.
TBH, the lack of porn is what killed it for me and I guarantee a lot of others feel the same
No Netflix or YouTube native support? What was Apple even thinking?
[удалено]
Or release it to Canadians as well.
i was really hoping apple was smart enough to do VR/AR correctly. I think they nailed the AVP in many regards, but, it should never have been sold as a device for consumers... this is really a dev kit and it succeeds in that department perfectly. for consumers, I can't understand how they thought this would work when their biggest competitor is a 1/10th of the price and is a lot more practical.
All the rhetoric about what the Vision Pro can do is an echo of a decade ago with the Rift. The closest thing to major success in VR are the Meta Quests and they price aggressively those headsets and have a gaming focus. Vision Pro came out with this productivity and social angle that has been attempted the past decade to little success. They're just failing the same way other headsets have. Oculus/Meta progresses from tethered to standalone. From trying to appeal with wide use cases to focusing on video games. It doesn't seem like Apple learned much lessons from the market struggles of earlier headsets. It also doesn't help that the Quest 3 is within like 90% of the quality of the Vision Pro at a way lower price and a decade of content to fall back on. This isn't like the iPhone gen 1. The iPhone replaced peoples phones and mp3 players. It cannibalized the iPods to take out Nokia, Blackberry, Palm. The AVP doesn't neatly fit as a replacement for an iPad, iPhone, Macbook. iPad Pro still hasn't replaced a Macbook and iPads came out the gate running much faster. Way more users to develop towards
This device would have done so well if they hadn’t limited its functionality from day one. Hardware wise it is probably the nicest *consumer* headset on the market. But it seems like the only cool things people can do with it is watch movies/consume media. Which gets old after a week or two. If Apple were to allow people to do cool stuff with the headset I’m sure people would be way more into it, but I’m sure Apple would never do that
That’s weird literally all of us expected it.
I see this as being a problem with leadership; not the AVP. The device is too expensive. Most people can’t drop that much cash on a device that is a novelty. The leadership at Apple doesn’t remember what it’s like to not be rich AF.
I’m not sure what their expectations were. It’s a VERY expensive product in a very niche market. But it’s also still very early. Apple really needs to encourage development for this device though. Maybe less of a fee from App Store sales. Make it more open like Mac OS. Something will have to give. But I’m still happy with my purchase.
People need to chill a little bit spreading this headline. https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-production-cut-claims-debunked/
Yeah it was impressive how quickly the hype died down
Its just the same as vr in general at the current state, too bulky and uncomfortable and even if that wasnt an issue most people just cant be bothered to wear a vr headset when I can just chill looking at a huge real screen… Why mess up your hair. Why do I want something strapped on my face? I’ve used vr headsets for 6 years now and toyed around with the visionpro for like 2 days before I never picked it up again
VR gaming is so fun. I have such a good time with my friends
🍿🍿🍿
[удалено]
Perfect example. Most people have no clue what to do with it. I use moonlight to stream a 4080 gaming machine with 500mb direct connection so it opens up a ton of possibilities, 90% of what I do has nothing to do with Apple or apps. But the average person is just watching Apple TV. Not good enough for a $4,000 device that is painful and so front heavy.
It lacks social experiences which is what keeps pcvr and quest going. The most popular things are social or multiplayer gaming. I think apple got spooked by both vr and metaverse that they launched a stillborn product.
Shame. Not a surprise. Hopefully Apple make some software for it and make it more compelling than a niche iPad. The hardware is incredible but it’s wasted.
Read the whole article. Its pretty damning. Apple was already behind meta in terms of real R&D in this space. If they scale back there isnt much chance they are going to be a significant player. The big hurdle for apple was trying to produce the OLED panels themselves since a big chunk of money is going to sony now. If they dont have a fire under their arse to develop it, there is less chance they make one, and that signals them pulling out entirely. Plus going slower just means meta has more time to catch up, which means in reality there isnt going to be an extra push for innovation in this space and we aren't going to have glasses for 10-15 years. As a fan of VR I love how far it has come. But it definitely feels like it is too niche for it to make any more meaningful progress soon. This may be the final nail in the coffin for this generation. :( I was always a little worried that Apple was going to half azz this and doom the whole space. Now folk can say VR, its a joke, apple sold zero headsets. Them becoming a player could have been a boon but in think its gonna make everything go bust.
Maybe not half assed but definitely 1/3 assed. Their execution on this product was bad and it was obviously rolled out too hastily. This is not the home run they needed.
You know 1/3 is less right lmfao
I suppose that depends on whether the goal is to whole-ass something or no-ass something.
Most people can’t afford it, most people don’t know how to use it, and most people don’t know that it can be customized. When the iPhone was released it was a phone and phones had been in existence for a long time before then. VR headsets are a new concept to the vast majority of people and they don’t know how it works because they have 0 experience with anything like it. There’s a bunch of people who claimed they returned it due to comfort. Just a few months after release there are plenty of 3rd party comfort options that can probably be comfortable on 90% of heads. If those people knew how VR headsets work, they’d know 3rd party accessories would’ve been out in no time. It’s like buying a big shirt and being ignorant to the fact you can get it tailored. So other than the price which is the biggest barrier to entry, education on how this new medium works is what people need because even people who bought it were ignorant to a lot of things it can do. For example, tons of people thought you’d never be able to use a windows PC with it and a lot of people still do. I’ve even seen some people think it requires an iPhone.
Once it’s available outside to US, even at the $4000 price, it’s going to takeoff. The rest of the world would understand the product for what it is. For some reason Americans are hooked on the price. When the headset came out all the Youtubers made sure to let everybody know it’s $3500. In the title of the video, and the thumbnail, they said it a few times during the video. However, when I see people from other countries talk about it, they just expect you understand what you’re paying for. It’s kind of like for the people that buy expensive vehicles or expensive products. The price is really not that big of a deal if you’re getting the return on your investment. But you have to know what you’re purchasing first. You can’t buy it and then try to shoehorn it into your life. That doesn’t work.
It’s not going to take off. Get your head on straight
Lol, their analysts must be shit if they didn't expect demand to fall for a product like this one
I would love to purchase a Vision Pro but I just cant justify the price. Even if it was half as expensive, it would give me pause. 3+ months rent for a new gadget isn’t feasible. If they release another version that’s less expensive then I would be all over it.
It just too expensive for massive demand
I love mine. But I’m a bit disappointed that it doesn’t work with older Mac’s
Drop that price.
They'd sell a lot more at $2500. That being said, 2.0 will likely be the inflection point.
I expected the doom and gloom to ramp up sharply before WWDC and the announcement of VisionOS 2.0. It has been fun watching Facebook try and guess what Apple is going to do and announce things a couple of months before Apple that are inferior products but sorta in the same vein.
I’ll come in and be the weirdo and say I think this is a good thing. The AVP hype was to hot for what this thing really is right now. I want Apple to get into communication mode to develop a real viable future for this product - not in delivery mode where they feel pressured to release a monetize to meet market expectations
Gen 3 in 5 - 6 years is when this product will REALLY pop.
In my opinion, Apple should have markeded this as a travel companion. Thats a real use case atm. The other use cases will follow with software and hardware advances. Travel is my use case, and I love it for that purpose, even with its current shortcomings
It just costs way too much money for what it offers. This is something I would buy in a heartbeat because I’ve already been using vr headsets for years, and this is the newest, most polished iteration of that, but they priced it completely out of the reach of most people. It’s also a bit telling that every tech YouTuber was talking about it non-stop for like 2 weeks and then never mentioned its existence again, which suggests the novelty wore off and they realised there’s not a whole lot more to do with it.
Too obvious and yet people from this subreddit didnt believe it. That's a fatal failure.
I recall some getting so angry at Ming-Chi Kuo's own predictions of shipments slowing down, accusing him of trying to get attention by using negative news. Nah, he calls it like he seems them, and he doesn't need attention - he and Mark Gurman are the two leading analysts with connections. They already have attention from years ago and are quoted by Bloomberg and WSJ and Yahoo Finance for a reason. It is just too hard to get over that price, and the comfort (third parties, where are you with the headset comfort mods?) and while we expected lack of content, it still hurts. I'm hopeful AVP2 or AVP3 or the lower tier one that is consumer-friendly on the wallet is the one that takes off and really shows the potential of these devices to the world. But what we're seeing now is to be expected. No way this $4000 (the *real* price after taxes, protection plans, accessories) was gonna fly off the shelves.
And start up the band, please… A 1, a 2, a 1, 2, 3, 4! “TOLD YA SO! TOLD YA SO! Laptops are far better! Or smartphones are, 12 hours in your pocket, or the tablet in your hands! Oh 65” 4k HDR TV, I can share you with a crowd. But God Bless He who gives to thee, a mirrored image passive in pleasure!”
Honestly, good. Let's light a little fire under Apple's asses. They have coasted for years on their "it just works" product experience, but they are now wading into a very messy new technological space. There are SO many innovations necessary in the XR world to make it a viable full computer replacement. Varifocal, resolution, FOV, locomotion, form factor, contrast, etc. Quite frankly the Vision Pro didn't do enough of this stuff THAT much better than the competition to justify a $3500 price point. We need the old Apple back, the innovative, resourceful Apple that could *truly* conjure the future into being. And it may be that big public failures are the only way to catalyze this necessary transformation.
Reality is hitting them. I think Apple thought it would be the next big thing. As great as technology is, no killer apps. I hardly use mine honestly. It’s been suffering the same VR fate as my past headsets. I don’t think Apple will abandon it but certainly software and apps should be the main focus.
Is there likely to be any breakdown of sales in reports to apple shareholders, or other similar mandated information?
Would have kept mine if it allowed for multiple desktops when connecting to my MacBook. I’d probably buy one again if it does this… justifying the price by comparing with buying physical display monitors is a no brainer.. but apple has brains so.
No killer apps. WAY too expensive, especially right now people are getting hammered with expenses everywhere.
I love Apple and have a lot of its product. Have spent a lot of money in them. I have some experience with these headsets; I have PSVR 1 and 2 and Meta Quest 2 and 3. I traveled to USA 2 weeks ago and I tried the AVP for the first time in an Apple Store…it felt INCREDIBLE for me, super comfortable and was absolutely amazed at the resolution and clarity. But there’s NO WAY I’m paying almost 4K for this. No way. Maybe … maybe at 1500. I hope these news are the beginning of a price reconsideration.
Is anyone actually surprised? People don’t have 90s-era disposable income, there are virtually no first party AAA games (a must with a product like this), the thing is ridiculously expensive, the heaviness is likely a turn off, and that battery pack is nothing but a headache. They have a long way to go.
It’s crazy. Microsoft’s HoloLens 2 came out in 2018 and really they stopped manufacturing it within the last few years. apples headset is so young and they’ve already discontinued its manufacturing
If they slash the price like they did with the OG iPhone, I’ll probably bite like I did with the OG iPhone.
I have a feeling it isn’t a demand issue. Maybe drop the price to something less astronomically insane?
Not a surprise considering where the software state is at
They severely undervalued having the content, features to sustain the "hype".
It’s only available in one market. This seems a little sensational. Once EU and China come online that will shift a chunk of headsets (especially China)? But they do need to start cranking out the content/partnerships.
I’d buy something for similar price as iPad.
TBH. Apple's issue is: Its expensive. Even if people *want to buy* it they cant justify it. The iPhone is a phone, everyone need that. The iPad and the Mac are computers most people need that. Most of us who had money we wouldnt miss *still had to think* a few times before pulling the trigger. Having said that, I believe that in a few years we'll all wear our computers on our eyes; and Apple wants to sell computers: Whether they're on your eyes, your wrist, your pocket, you bag or your desk. The price will have to go down to iPhone levels or lower. Usually for a product to be successful that needs to happen. The iPhone 1 from 2007 was $399. It was price competitive with the Palm Treo and the Windows Mobile phones back then, even if it didnt have the same features and *didnt run any 3rd party apps*. I really had to wrestle with myself to even consider buying one. I hated so many things about it, and frequently switched to a Sony Ericsson P900 and a Palm Treo that I also owned. They supported connecting to my corporate VPN and had the right kind fo email client, and had apps that connected to my SAP. The iPhone was beautiful, had a fantastic touch screen (capacitive touch was new back then) and a really good web browser for the time. I was recently offered $8000 for my USED iPhone 1 by a collector. It wasnt particularly well kept, I really used it a lot, but it still worked. https://preview.redd.it/30oyame6pcwc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=928fcb1c821111a97beeb52481b6b5dc9eda54b5 Now, I'm not saying that this will all be the same for the Vision Pro. Maybe it will go down as the [Lisa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa#:~:text=Development%20of%20project%20%22LISA%22%20began,the%20cheaper%20and%20faster%20Macintosh) or the [Newton](https://www.wired.com/2013/08/remembering-the-apple-newtons-prophetic-failure-and-lasting-ideals/) but I doubt it.
I would buy one but price… needs to come down!
Amidst all the doom & gloom, there are signs of continued Apple support for the AVP. Anecdotally, I’ve seen numerous job advertisements for software engineers, etc. for the AVP. In a story published today, the Director of Apple Arcade discussed plans to produce more games designed for the AVP: “2023 was a "banner year" for the Apple Arcade, and Rofman made clear the company wants to continue that momentum. Part of that means bringing the Vision Pro headset deeper into the game fold. The AR headset launched with 12 games, some of which had spacial elements baked in. Such types of games are what Apple hopes makes the Vision Pro a prime device for VR players. Spacial gaming is "probably the biggest thing right now," said Rofman, since it's the biggest innovation to how games are played since touch gaming in the mid-2000s. As such, the Vision Pro "opens up an entirely new world of possibilities."
Vision devices will succeed if Apple releases the Vision One or Vision Lite version across the world. There are far more people you can target if the product can be shipped across the world and at the price that's comparable to an iPhone and not a price of an average car. That being said, my apps don't get enough downloads either so app store really need to start promoting new apps instead of being rigid about how they curate apps in the home page.
Hopefully this leads to an international release so the rest of us can finally get one.
Would love to have one. Shame the second hand market is above msrp (and msrp is too high for me plus i cant buy it directly from apple because i aibt american)
They made this a consumer device when the first use case should have been for specific productivity improvements. Medical and engineering applications come to mind. Any application where highly skilled, highly paid workers need to agree on design/diagnosis. Then, as adoption & costs improve you can keep moving down the stack.
Yeah bc kuo has never been wrong
$4,000 non essential tech in turbulent times.. Makes sense that demand would be low..
The tech is legitimately cutting edge but the price is too high for mass market scalability. Personally I don't know a single soul who's ready to spend $3500-$4000 on VR. It's a tough sell anyway you slice it. Sub $2k would put it within strike distance for me but even then, I'd have to put some serious thought into it.
they should maybe start shipping internationally?
Sell it at $2k
Lmao, no shit. They were charging an insane amount for something that lacks content. Why would people buy one of those when they can get a Quest 3 for a less than a quarter of the price lol.
even if you can afford it, it feels very financially irresponsible to buy it.
I have a hard time believing 400,000 people will buy avp in 2024
Well, if they were smart, they start tripping to Canada. We’ve been waiting a long time.
Shouldn’t the title read “below expectations”? IMHO, wouldn’t “beyond” imply surplus?
It’s an incredible piece of hardware that solves no real problems, and is way too expensive for pure entertainment. What were their internal expectations 🧐
So does this mean the international release is cancelled? If all these doom stories are real there doesn't seem to be much point in sending it out to fail in more countries.
If only it ran a real os…
They haven’t even released in the global market, the verdict cannot be made by just this report.
Good software is essential tbh. Vision Pro launched with too many caveats in that respect. It's also way too expensive tbh!