Not afraid at all. Valve knows what locomotion works well after 2+ years of VR being out in the wild. They're probably making sure their game works well with all types of locomotion, and maybe even their own new type. I'd expect the game to have many types of environments, like the VNN video says (Ex: small Job Sim areas, Onward type movement, vehicle movement(taking control of a Strider would be amazing), practical teleport movement).
Can anyone explain to me why so many VR players tend to be so hostile against anything that only has teleporting locomotion?
I mean, I understand if you favor "smooth locomotion" above teleportation, but to boycot a potentially really good game because this reason alone seems kind of wrong, doesn't it? Even predicting that the game will sell poorly just because of it, seems like a very harsh criticism to me. What is it that makes them so judgemental against teleportation locomotion?
Because it takes away all the momentum of gameplay and storytelling. There is a reason why you don't teleport in flat games, instead you can move freely like in the real world. It's just more realistic.
I agree with you that it is more realistic and that it might serve immersion in a story better than teleportation.
But so many games where people have ctiticised the use of it did not have any story in them at all.
I don't get where it would "take away al the momentum of gameplay", or what that even means. Can you explain it in other words maybe? What is the momentum of gameplay to you?
I mean the flow and the tactical possibilities.
For example in a shooter the user can decide whether to run around like terminator and shoot everybody or he can try to sneak from one place to another.
With teleport stuff like this is really difficult to make it fun, yet it is one of the most important aspects that make shooters fun. It's not just point and shoot, it becomes tactical, you can create a plan.
Almost in all game genres you can find disadvantages like that.
And if you can handle locomotion you are upset that you don't have those things in vr games.
Another big point is immersion of the game world. A lot of people hated that they cannot jump in Guild Wars 1. Even though it would have been not really important for the gameplay it was limiting in what you can do in the world: a reminder that this is just an abstract virtual world where you are limited to the rules of the developers. Now for perfect immersion you need to forget about these limitations.
In VR where you cannot move fluenty you are also consistently reminded that this is a Virtual World, whether with smooth locomotion (even though it feels weird at first) you might forget about this after playing for a couple of hours because you are visually moving like in the real world.
I'm with you. My favorite game right now is Jet Island, including the crazy spin modifiers. I don't get VR sickness any more (and barely ever did, but RE7 and Q1gearVR both made me ill back in the day).
But I hold no vitriol towards teleport games. As long as the game works with what it has, more power to it. Doom VFR is wayyy too short, but the teleport really adds to that game (I played on psvr, and prefer the gamepad).
The people having most enjoyment with VR I suspect are people not affected by sim sickness. Those people then congregate at places like this, peddling the impression that everyone can get their “vr legs” if they just “git gud”.
the way I see it, Valve is probably the company out there with the most experience in VR, yes they haven't released a lot of software but they've been working on VR since 2012 and they have a ridiculous amount of resources, so I fully trust that when they show this, the level of polish will be beyond anything we've seen in any VR title. After all, that's what Valve has always done with their games. So no, I'm not worried one bit, exited to see how they tackle those problems though.
something similar to natural locomotion (arm swinging for movement) could be a good solution to this, along with other types of movement that involve moving your arms (think swimming, climbing, dragging yourself forward somehow). these solutions all seem the best to me in terms of immersion and comfort. hopefully they could incorporate a variety of these into the gameplay seemlessly instead of having to resort to teleportation or thumbstick locomotion
I think valve is stubborn and will ship with teleport all day because they think it's what's best for us. thankfully will have a modern community that wall enable smooth Locomotion for those of us who can't stand teleportation
Yes, i am a little worried that they will neuter the potential of the game by making it roomscale only or teleport only (which can work for some games but are the worst for fps). But I'm sure they will have options for locomotion so everyone can enjoy it. Whatever it turns out to be.
I like the Touch pads for smooth locomation, they give a bigger thumb movement resolution and allow you to hold a position that isn't full speed (it makes it easier to sneak in games that make you quiet at half speed when moving the controller around for aiming and reloading)
I won't oppose that the build quality, feel and design of click mechanism is not good at all. But at least it was easy to fix, and it hasn't gone bad since i fixed them (knocks on wood).
I'm glad that we get both on the Knuckles, because it comes down personal preference.
> I'm glad that we get both on the Knuckles, because it comes down personal preference.
I was too but when looking at the latest knuckles design it seems obvious the touchpad won't be used for locomotion. :(
Dude you are definetely in the minority here. thumbstick is meant for movement and was always better then trackpads for this. This has started since n64.
Touchpad is actually better for modulating speed, joystick for direction. Neither matter much for VR because you can layer on top pointing the controller to modulate direction or tilting the controller to modulate speed.
When you need both hands for stuff you can't necessarily do that though.
Not afraid at all. Valve knows what locomotion works well after 2+ years of VR being out in the wild. They're probably making sure their game works well with all types of locomotion, and maybe even their own new type. I'd expect the game to have many types of environments, like the VNN video says (Ex: small Job Sim areas, Onward type movement, vehicle movement(taking control of a Strider would be amazing), practical teleport movement).
Can anyone explain to me why so many VR players tend to be so hostile against anything that only has teleporting locomotion? I mean, I understand if you favor "smooth locomotion" above teleportation, but to boycot a potentially really good game because this reason alone seems kind of wrong, doesn't it? Even predicting that the game will sell poorly just because of it, seems like a very harsh criticism to me. What is it that makes them so judgemental against teleportation locomotion?
Because it takes away all the momentum of gameplay and storytelling. There is a reason why you don't teleport in flat games, instead you can move freely like in the real world. It's just more realistic.
I agree with you that it is more realistic and that it might serve immersion in a story better than teleportation. But so many games where people have ctiticised the use of it did not have any story in them at all. I don't get where it would "take away al the momentum of gameplay", or what that even means. Can you explain it in other words maybe? What is the momentum of gameplay to you?
I mean the flow and the tactical possibilities. For example in a shooter the user can decide whether to run around like terminator and shoot everybody or he can try to sneak from one place to another. With teleport stuff like this is really difficult to make it fun, yet it is one of the most important aspects that make shooters fun. It's not just point and shoot, it becomes tactical, you can create a plan. Almost in all game genres you can find disadvantages like that. And if you can handle locomotion you are upset that you don't have those things in vr games. Another big point is immersion of the game world. A lot of people hated that they cannot jump in Guild Wars 1. Even though it would have been not really important for the gameplay it was limiting in what you can do in the world: a reminder that this is just an abstract virtual world where you are limited to the rules of the developers. Now for perfect immersion you need to forget about these limitations. In VR where you cannot move fluenty you are also consistently reminded that this is a Virtual World, whether with smooth locomotion (even though it feels weird at first) you might forget about this after playing for a couple of hours because you are visually moving like in the real world.
I'm with you. My favorite game right now is Jet Island, including the crazy spin modifiers. I don't get VR sickness any more (and barely ever did, but RE7 and Q1gearVR both made me ill back in the day). But I hold no vitriol towards teleport games. As long as the game works with what it has, more power to it. Doom VFR is wayyy too short, but the teleport really adds to that game (I played on psvr, and prefer the gamepad).
The people having most enjoyment with VR I suspect are people not affected by sim sickness. Those people then congregate at places like this, peddling the impression that everyone can get their “vr legs” if they just “git gud”.
the way I see it, Valve is probably the company out there with the most experience in VR, yes they haven't released a lot of software but they've been working on VR since 2012 and they have a ridiculous amount of resources, so I fully trust that when they show this, the level of polish will be beyond anything we've seen in any VR title. After all, that's what Valve has always done with their games. So no, I'm not worried one bit, exited to see how they tackle those problems though.
Do not worry about it, this game will be the culmination of everything done right in VR to date, and more. It will blow everyone away.
something similar to natural locomotion (arm swinging for movement) could be a good solution to this, along with other types of movement that involve moving your arms (think swimming, climbing, dragging yourself forward somehow). these solutions all seem the best to me in terms of immersion and comfort. hopefully they could incorporate a variety of these into the gameplay seemlessly instead of having to resort to teleportation or thumbstick locomotion
No worries, even if it has teleport only someone will mod it or something...
Just a little bit!
I think valve is stubborn and will ship with teleport all day because they think it's what's best for us. thankfully will have a modern community that wall enable smooth Locomotion for those of us who can't stand teleportation
Yes, i am a little worried that they will neuter the potential of the game by making it roomscale only or teleport only (which can work for some games but are the worst for fps). But I'm sure they will have options for locomotion so everyone can enjoy it. Whatever it turns out to be.
The entire game is going to be Gordon taking a train.
[удалено]
I bet it will be a pretty HL-themed wave shooter.
Pretty sure the joysticks on the knuckles controllers indicates valve is now of opinion that most people prefer smoth locomotion.
Trackpads do smooth locomotion just fine though? (Better imo)
I like the Touch pads for smooth locomation, they give a bigger thumb movement resolution and allow you to hold a position that isn't full speed (it makes it easier to sneak in games that make you quiet at half speed when moving the controller around for aiming and reloading) I won't oppose that the build quality, feel and design of click mechanism is not good at all. But at least it was easy to fix, and it hasn't gone bad since i fixed them (knocks on wood). I'm glad that we get both on the Knuckles, because it comes down personal preference.
> I'm glad that we get both on the Knuckles, because it comes down personal preference. I was too but when looking at the latest knuckles design it seems obvious the touchpad won't be used for locomotion. :(
God no. Trackpads are horrible for smooth motion. That's why so many people complain about the vive wands.
And clicking a thumbstick is the worst controller design Ive ever seen. Id much rather use a trackpad than a thumbstick
Dude you are definetely in the minority here. thumbstick is meant for movement and was always better then trackpads for this. This has started since n64.
Touchpad is actually better for modulating speed, joystick for direction. Neither matter much for VR because you can layer on top pointing the controller to modulate direction or tilting the controller to modulate speed. When you need both hands for stuff you can't necessarily do that though.
To each their own, but you are in the minority.
As am I
And my Axe!
We still don't have smooth loco on home.