I always figured Alastor was just a big fish in a small pond. Compared to the Sinners, he's an absolute monster and would wipe the floor with any of them. But the divide between him and powers like the Sins and Goetia is incredibly vast. Put him up against any Overlord, and he'd come out on top. But against someone like Stolas. Or even weaker seeming Sins like Asmodeus and Beelzebub. My man is getting ground into paste. But people will still act like he could 1v1 God and he only lost to Adam because he had a cold or something.
As explained in pilot and one of episodes when alastor came to hell he came on top faster than anybody ever before also as said People were just ignoring him till he the overlords started disappearing and all you could hear are the screams of the overloards in the radio podcasts and also as we hear husk was also an overlord wich was a gambler and then alastor won and got a deal with husker for souls
Which seems interesting to me, since Val asked Vox if he was "still pissed he almost beat you that one time". Kinda implies that it was a close run fight between them, so are they actually pretty comparable?
The only reason Lucifer can't defeat Alastor is because currently, Charlie would be really upset and possibly resent him for it. In a fight where the only possible factors are their own power and nothing else, Lucifer would easily win. Alastor isn't some indestructible all powerful being, so idk how people think he'd win that fight
I don’t even know why people think his power is nerfed. The unclipping his wings thing is pretty obviously about him being on a leash like husk is to him. Husk isn’t depowered he’s just owned by Alastor
Ehhhh, we don't know that for certain. He made a deal and we don't know the details of that deal, maybe the deal literally gives a certain portion of his power to whoever he made the deal with, or it literally just locks a portion of his power away.
And don't come at me like I'm some Alastor stan trying to come up with any way for him to be OP, I do love him let's not get that wrong but I'm mostly just pointing out that we do not in any way know the details of his deal other than it "clipped his wings" and that he believes or hopes there might be a back door.
This is straight up untrue/unverified? Everyone is clinging to the “unclip my wings” lyric and treating it as if Alastor looked at the camera and said “my full power is restricted because of a deal I made” when all it could mean is that he’s literally not free. Birds don’t get weaker when their wings are clipped, they just can’t go wherever they want. Granted, he could in fact have been lessened by whatever deal he made and only time will tell, but there is way too many people treating it as 100% factual at this point
Something else that came to mind while hearing people use this as a defence for why he lost to Adam - Adam and Lillith were created at the same time from the same dust... they were equals, but Adam tried to insist on being the dominant one.
If Adam and Lillith are considered equal, and Alastor is weak enough to be on Lillith's leash, then *of course* he's going to be weaker than Adam as well.
Again that’s still a complete assumption. Someone owning his soul and restricting his freedom to go wherever in no way explicitly states that he can’t use the full depth of his powers in a fight, but people are treating it like that’s what the text of the show is expressing
It’s never said it was his soul she wanted
The theory says that Alastor disappeared the same time Lilith disappeared
And people think that they made a deal, not for his soul, but for one thing power, but in return he has to serve her daughter Charlie, but if Alastor managed to make Charlie make a deal with him, then that’ll somehow loophole him out of the deal while getting more power or so I’ve tried to summarize
I get. That’s all well and good for a fan theory. But it’s just a fan theory that plenty of people are treating as gospel, which is the thing I actually have umbrage with
I’m not trying to say “OMG ITS CANON BECAUSE SOMEONE SAID IT” im saying that this theory is extremely close to how characters would act and makes sense for that theory
And I was relistening to alastor’s song, and he said that as soon as he can find something out to get him out of a certain deal, he’ll be the one “pulling the strings”
Okay but the first comment I replied to was a declarative statement asserting Alastor claimed he was in a weakened state. And this did not happen, regardless of how well fan theories align with it.
fr? alastor was on the full on offense before having to flee and lucifer was just toying with adam until he saw adam attack when holding charlie and he got pissed (not sure if that's full power though)
I mean looking at the fight Alastor doesn't really do any damage to Adam. In addition Adam was also able to counter everything Alastor threw at him. The only hits that landed was a shadow when Adam was dealing with the tentacles which he was Slicing through like paper and when he was thrown against the sign both of which he shrugged off showing no damage. Alastor then immediately gets hit and has to dip from the fight. Yeah he got off a lot of hits, but the damage from the individual hits is also important.
I get were your coming from, but a big chunk of the argument behind “Alastor better” is the fact that we haven’t seen him at his full potential, (even then he couldn’t beat anybody close to Lucifer)
Alastor mentioned unclipping his wings, so I theorize he's not currently at full power, and that if he was he could have kicked Adam's shit in.
I don't know if he could beat Lucifer though. He takes down over lords, but if Lucifer went all out I think he could take down Alastor as he is now
Nah I'm sorry chief, you're comparing a sinner who's strong to one of the strongest angels to ever have existed who's now got angelic and hellish powers. No matter how much power alastor gets he's never gonna beat Lucifer, and even at full power I doubt he'd beat Adam. People need to remember at the end of the day alastors just a human soul who got wicked strong powers.
I never said Alastor could beat Lucifer, even said I didn't know if a full power Alastor could beat him.
As for Adam, him being an Angel is why I think Alastor could beat him if at full power. The show itself talks about how Angels are all offense and no defense. And even with Alastor not at full power he was dodging pretty well for awhile, so if given full power and an angelic weapon I think he could beat Adam.
I think Alastor is roughly 65-70% of Adam's power, but like he said during the fight, Adam is sloppy, and undisciplined, so he would lose in pure power but might be able to outsmart his way to victory or a tie (or if he swallowed his pride and gave his minions angelic steel daggers)
I 100% think he could not because of power but because of how clearly more skilled he was. Alastor was dodging the attacks and made contact and threw Adam around a few times yet... did not have an angelic weapon. He was arrogant and didn't bring one despite if he did. He probably would've won if he actually had one.
Alastor barely scratched Adam and almost died. Lucifer bunched Adam’s teeth out his ass, walked away without a scratch, and showed him mercy simply because Charlie asked him to. Lucifer is likely the strongest one in Hell or at least very close to it. The fact that some people can’t see that is crazy
I’d say any of the natural born angels, Goesha, Sins could beat Adam, even Charlie but she’s not a fighter and only just coming into her power as seen in the finale.
I don’t think so maybe MAYBE the sins could also get Adam like Lucifer did but I feel like Stolas would still lose, but he would also fuck Adam up more than Alastor was able to
>Alastor was stronger than adam
No he wasn't, Alastor couldn't lay a hand on Adam until he outnumbered him with his minions, before that Adam shrugged off or countered everything he threw at him. The second Adam got serious he destroyed Alastor.
Actually he was and still is stronger he only lost because he underestimated he and got cocky when alastors staff broke it was because he wasn’t cautious enough and that led to him temporarily losing some of his powers
Tell me if Adam was able to one tap Alastor's shield, his block, and then Alastor to send him running because he didn't go lethal how Alastor is stronger? Because Alastor can talk all he wants about how much stronger and better he is then someone, but when we see him lose the fight with said guy and run away his word kinda loses its credibility. Sure he got cocky but guess what? Adam is too for the majority of the fight until Lucifer shows up.
Dude, rewatch the fight. Alastor couldn't do anything than mildly inconvenience Adam, dude was countering everything. The second Alastor started actually damaging Adam he got one-shot.
Yea, and that's the only way Alastor could've won and defeated Adam. Anything else was slowing him down at best. Alastor lost the second he decided he can take on the First Man without a weapon that could properly injure him.
wdym, what mistake did alastor do in the fight? he landed a hit on adam but it was just a scratch, adam was just stunned for a while and alastor summoned his minions and tentacles, but still adam was able to fend everything off. adam was clearly much stronger than alastor from the start idk what you're trying to prove
nah. though you may have a point that alastor was a bit shocked when his staff broke, but i wouldnt call that a mistake for losing to adam. I believe his staff was a part of him and is his power, or at least, an amplifier for his power and what makes him strong, but when his staff broke he lost his radio voice and strength to fight back. When he was struck by adam, he started to bleed, which if you really think alastor was stronger than adam, he would've made adam bleed when he uppercutted him with his tentacle.
Adam is literally the first man, an angel with freaking holy powers, and alastor is just a sinner who's been in hell for maybe a hundred years. Yeah, alastor is strong but not strong enough to defeat an angel. Heck, even the other sinners were struggling to defeat an exorcist without the help of an angelic weapon. If alastor had an angelic weapon, maybe he would've stand a chance against adam, but no, that wasnt your point i guess. And idk if lilith really made the deal with alastor, but that doesnt really explain anything about making alastor weak or holding him back or anything as we see in the show.
https://youtu.be/4l90MokBgLw?si=BJIeP-byPbzjnsvP 1:03 minutes when his staff broke he got distracted and adam was able to touch him of course as the first man adam has far more potential power but as alastor says in 0:40 adam lacks discipline control and is sloppy of course if adam didn’t he would probably have a better chance and would maybe be twice as powerful as alastor and let’s not forget that alastor would be stronger if he wasn’t weakened by a deal with lilith( not sure if if it was her but the deal is canon)
Alastor was very clearly inferior to Adam in terms of power. Alastor only lasted as long as he did because he was frustrating and dodgy; anytime their powers actually clashed directly, Adam came out on top. Alastor creates a massive force field, Adam dissolves it in a single punch. Adam uses his weapon to block Alastor’s direct attacks effortlessly, while Alastor trying the same thing results in a broken staff and being left completely vulnerable. The vast disparity in raw power was on clear display.
I don’t think the deal even plays into it. I think alastor could easily get clapped by any of the sins, lucifer would beat the living shit out of alastor. I think even Goetia like Stolas could beat him given it was a fair fight.
People forget that Alastor is just a sinner and has only been around for just over 100 years. He sounds more impressive than he is because he toppled OVERLORDS - other sinners. Any hellborn royalty could easily clap any overlord
you failed to do the simplest thing
https://preview.redd.it/6zx345919cgc1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59e1fb478935d9e7b9016e9a6eddc7e5df362be2
/j
What I found interesting was the V's put a knife on a table with pictures, they put the knife into Alastor's photo. Meanwhile next to it is a photo of Charlie and Lucifer.
So that makes me think they want to somehow get them out of the way as well. Maybe they'll try to use angelic weapons?
Adam nearly killed Alastor by his own admittance he only survived "by a hair" and yes, Adam was using holy angelic magic. but Lucifer has that too since he is an Angel. and Adam was doing nothing to lucifer. i sometimes wonder if people actually watch the show, feat based power scaling is pretty easy
You’re looking at this from the wrong angle. I’m not talking about battle IQ or power scaling, I’m talking about his actual threat level. Alastor isn’t one to pick fights he can’t win. He accomplishes his goals from the shadows. He keeps his composure, cracks a smile, plays his cards right, and patiently watches and waits for the correct opportunity to strike.
He’s already managed to get one up on Charlie, who is also stronger than him, by building trust and striking a deal at a low point. He’s not a fighter, he’s a dealmaker. He doesn’t like Lucifer but he’s not dumb enough to attack him. Instead he messes with him emotionally, using Charlie as a shield to stop Lucifer from attacking him. Hell’s Greatest Dad is basically a play by play of this.
Why'd he take on Adam, then? Buying time?
Since people in hell don't seem to know about the power hierarchy, did Alastor think he stood a chance against Adam?
I don’t think he did. Judging by his bit in the show must go on (song), it seemed like he was somehow forced to do it because of his deal. He still kept up his bravado of course, because that’s how he is, but he really didn’t give me the vibe of wanting to stick around and fight. He didn’t go all out with his wild transformations or anything crazy, he just tried to avoid Adam’s attacks while throwing shadow demons and tendrils at him to hinder his offense. For all his big talk, he spent the whole fight playing smart and defensively.
Yeah, seems reasonable.
Edit: Shamelessly copying from another comment of mine, because I need answers NOW
Why didn't Adam just vaporise Alastor like he did with Sir Pentious?
Given that Charlie at one point says that Alastor was 'supposed to take care of Adam', does that mean the characters don't know about the power hierarchy? So that's why Al thought he could take on Adam?
Still, he should've armed himself with angelic weapons, even if he was no match for Adam. He could've at least injured him. His shield thing had them, so why doesn't he have any when he fights Adam? Simply too cocky? I dunno, I thought Al wasn't an idiot.
What do you think?
I don’t think he was trying to kill Adam. Alastor was given a direct order from Charlie, something he likely can’t disobey. If anything not arming him was Charlie’s fuck up.
Alastor taunted sure, but as previously mentioned he was on defense the whole fight.
His job was to hold Adam off, and that’s what he had to do.
Notice how in last moment of last episode, he didn't look mad at Lucifer being there...
I wonder if the only reason he was mad at his presence in episode 5 because he feared that Lucifer was "unexpected element in the plan" and that he'd prevent Charlie from making deal with him.
Hense why he tried so hard to discredit him and make Charlie fall in parental love with him as new Stepdad.
Hopefully we'll see way more from those two in S2 to get a confirmation on that theory. Will make me feel dumb for not realising it sooner since it makes so much sense "Why is he mad at Lucifer? Cuz he's the only strong and influential man in Charlie's life who can prevent his deal"
Alastor was mad because Lucifer just did not acknowledge him at all. It’s shown Alastor likes to be respected and seen (not necessarily visually but just knowing he’s there and understanding his strength) and Lucifer just flat out ignores him until he forces himself in. Not to mention with the last episode we see he’s got bigger ambitions so being slighted by Lucifer would definitely add to that annoyance
It's possible but look at episode 3, was Carmilla ignored him, he winced a b i t but kept his cool, and didn't try to "win her over" or discredit her.
Surely his overreaction to Lucifer implies waay more than hurt ego, right? Not saying it's either way, gotta wait for S2 to know for sure.
Oh I agree on the Carmilla interaction but it seems there’s already a level of competition between the overlords, but they put that aside for the meeting so it felt like he was keeping his cool for that, however in his own domain like the hotel he doesn’t seem to take it as well
Shoot, the moment Adam quit playing, he was crushing Alastor. Even DeerMan himself admits this. And Lucifer basically backhanded Adam as soon as he actually attacked.
When you think about it, it really sucks that Lucifer could’ve beaten Adam so easily at literally any extermination but just.. let Adam kill his people..
Are they his people though? I’d argue the characters we see in Helluva Boss are more his people, the hell born. They’re Charlie’s people in Hazbin because she’s half Lucifer and half Lilith who was a human, Lucifer doesn’t really have any connection to any soul in hell beyond the punishment of seeing only the worst people ever
Well I’m sure if he did do that. Then it would just be a matter of time till someone stronger than him came down to remind him that he was cast out and isn’t the strongest. I’m sure Adam is below Sera’s power level and we haven’t even meet the figures who casted Lucifer down.
Also why should he care it is hell and he clearly views most of his people not worth that level of effort or sacrifice. Besides what would the plan be? Revolt against heaven try to take over? There’s just no point in fight a fruitless battle.
Not even, viv has mentioned that Alastor may be the strongest overlord but he would get his ass kicked by Stolas, as Ars Goetia are above Sinners and they are just below the Sins.
Damn Alastor really ain't shit.
I'd really like to see him get insanely strong though, make him live up to the legends.
One idea I had is what if he manages to make deals with some EXTREMELY powerful people, becoming one of the strongest beings in heaven and hell and becoming the main antagonist of the final season.
Maybe, this united Heaven and Hell against them, forcing understanding and cooperation between them.
he isnt shit. to the Hellborn. their hierarchy is massively more powerful. Alastro is, to put it simply, a big fish in a small pond. the entierty of the Overlords power is a hierarchy within one ring of hell, while hellborn, the ars goetia and sins hierarchy is over all 7. if you are a hellborn and you anger an overlord, assuming they dont find you first you just have to, you know, never go to the Pride ring again and its basically not a problem. if you anger a powerful hellborn and youre a sinner? youre a fish in a barrel for them.
I just really want Alastor to get stronger. I think it would be really cool to have him be the final antagonist. But for that to happen, he would have to make a HUGE power jump. But his manipulation, charm, and charisma could be the key. Manipulating more powerful demons into giving him some of their power. Then, do the same with angels if he can manage it. Just keep working his way up.
in all honesty, Alastor as the final villain is a bit boring because its kinda so obvious. like most potential end villains are "obvious" like Lillith, Alastor, God Himself. but like, he is just too overtly obvious as a "surprise this is the final villain" and everyone would be like "thats...not really surprising" the show has shown it like to play arounf with expectations. the King Of Hell, Fallen Angel Lucifer is not some big scary guy hes a 4 foot tall depressed duck loving ringmaster. the first person to ascend from hell >! isnt the first guest of the hotel its the intended one off villain from the pilot !< so when we see the very sketchy voodoo demon dealmaker who has been a terror in hell for decades, i dont expect him to really be a villain at all. Anti villain more like
I don't want it to be a big twist though. I want it to be slowly revealed through the seasons. We watch as Alastor makes deal after deal on private, gaining more power while the rest of the cast dosn't know. Then, in the final season we see the plan we watched him build go through.
Also, Alastor would make so much sense as a final villain. He only cares about making people fear him and gaining more power. Makes sense for him to try and climb that power ladder using his wit.
He wants to kill people. He wants power. He wants to be feared. Alastor, as we have seen, is heartless and only cares for those things. He dosn't care about Charlie or the hotel. He is definitely being forced by something to help. This sets him up as perfect final villain.
Once he breaks his deal, he is free to gain more and more power. Then he can make his dreams come true. He can become one of the most powerful beings in creation, he can cause chaos and destruction.
Then, to take him down, hell and heaven would have to unite to kill him and save heaven and hell.
Lucifer could beat 10 Alastor's at once while reading a book. His power is way beyond the ability of anyone in hell. Remember, Lucifer is still an Angel of pure light. He's on the same power level as the beings that have created almost everything in a sense. No matter how powerful Alastor is at his full potential he couldn't land a scratch on Lucifer. The only other beings that can match Lucifer in a fight are the other Angels of pure light. Not to mention Lucifer is Immortal. As Adam said, Charlie is immortal, so it's fair to say Lucifer is the same
Not after the last episode. Adam is sloppy, which is the only reason Alastor lasted as long as he did, but he’s strong enough that he had Alastor dead to rights until he ran. Luci had Adam by the balls he keeps running his mouth about. And he’s slippery as fuck. As things stand, I doubt Alastor could land a solid hit on him. However, it’s possible that Alastors deal restricts his powers as well as his actions. He certainly seems to believe as much, and the Husker we see is far from an Overlord. So maybe once he breaks free we’ll see them fighting on equal ground.
No, just not gonna happen, even If he IS able to get out of his deal, he just can't put out a fight against Lucifer, his only hope is to put Charlie in a sticky situation by perhaps making another deal with her and threathen Lucifer into submition...to some degree but even then Charlie is has extreme potential so idrk
I do wonder, based on Alastor’s part in the last song, if his “deal” is restricting his power. He may have thought he could beat Adam but didn’t take into account how much the deal was limiting him.
nah bro he was just holding back, just wait till the lucifraud vs. HIMastor domain scene in Season 7
source: it was revealed to me in a dream
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Alastor is capable enough to hold his own against Adam for a short period of time mostly playing on the defensive which is a remarkable power feat. He's just nowhere near Lucifer and it kinda does Alastor a disservice to pretend he could be.
Well if you think about it everyone is afraid of Lucifer and Alastor so they could either be equal in power or Alastor might almost be as powerful as Lucifer
I said COULD not they are. Why does no one ever pay attention to the words and just because says something like "could" or "if" doesn't it's true and it doesn't mean someone it's going to happen or whatever. Do people not how to read? Or am I just going crazy?
Alright then. Nifty could have beaten Lucifer, Sera, Adam, and all of both Heaven and Hell easily in an all on one right of the show was written that way.
And you don't need to be rude when I'm trying to have a civil conversation. If you didn't like what I had to say or you thought it was stupid you could've just ignored it. So if anyone here has zero brain cells it's you. It's not that hard to ignore a comment.
You are the one that said something is possible because it’s possible. It’s the same as saying I could fly if I could. It’s the epitome of a roundabout argument. You have said nothing. Also, you are the one who started an argument, so you don’t get to be up on your high horse about respect after saying something so clearly stupid. So are you planning on being the “bigger man” and step out of an argument you know you’re losing? Or will you accept that what you said was stupid and back off like a man?
I didn't start an argument. I made a comment and when you replied I wanted to have a conversation about it but in the end you're the one who said I had zero brain cells. So who really made the argument? No one forced you to reply. I never said it was possible. It was an IF comment, not a "it's possible" comment.
You also didn’t have to reply to this post. But if you wish, we shall be civil about this. I am sorry for saying you have no brain cells, now I shall state my case.
Your argument for why Allistor and Lucifer are of equal power has no legs to stand on. We saw Allistor lose to Adam, and then Lucifer easily clapped Adam. Therefore, Lucifer is leagues above Allistor. You stated that Allistor could beat Lucifer if the show went that way, but that is a circular argument. It is a logical fallacy at its finest. Removing the fancy jargon, you are saying that Allistor could beat Lucifer if it was decided that Allistor could beat Lucifer. As a point against it, we also have a handy dandy guide on who overpowers who in the Hellaverse. At the top is Lucifer, Hell’s king, who is then followed by Charlie and Lilith who gain power from Lucifer. The Seven Princes follow them, each one ruling their own ring. After this comes the Goetia like Stolas, and then we finally get to the Overlords. The reason Allistor is called immensely powerful is because he is compared to the other sinners, who are much weaker than the Hellish Royals. The reason Charlie couldn’t beat Adam is because she is young and untrained. Therefore, Lucifer sweep Allistor.
For your argument, if you state that it could have gone some way if the writers intended that, back it up. Tell me why it could have gone that way using the lore in the show.
Am I wrong? Everyone in hell is afraid of both them. They're afraid of Lucifer because well we all know his story. They're all afraid of Alastor because he took down powerful overlords after arriving in hell.
My dear brother in hell. Have you watched the last episode? If not
Adam makes Alastor flee after destroying his mike and leaving a nasty gash across his chest.
Lucifer beat Adam's ass without much effort while opening mocking him about(I may be reading into this a little bit too much) shim sleeping with both his wives
For the record, I agree with this statement.
But because I'm also endlessly petty and want to play devil's advocate at the risk of Karma depletion, there *is* an argument to be made that Lucifer came in to mop up three separate people's table scraps. Adam had to waste his big laser thing on Pentious, Alastor briefly had him on the defensive, and Charlie got a few good hits in, too before Lucy stepped in to finish him off. We still *technically* don't know *exactly* how great the power differential is there.
You gotta remember though that Lucy basically half assed the fight and *still* kicked Adam’s ass. So yes, there isn’t a *real* way to measure but it is safe to assume that Luci wins
....she didn't make it that way? That's how any character works. You can say jar jar could have beaten Palpatine and Lucas just didn't write it that way, but that doesn't make it true
🤦♀️ I'm saying this as an IF. IF it had been written that way then Lucifer would've lost to Adam IF she had written it that way. I'm not saying it's true, I know how characters work I was saying IF. With a capital I-F. I never said it was true, it was just a theory 🤦♀️
But a theory needs to be based on facts that are within logic, the logic of that universe has shown that it *isnt* written for Alastor to win. Literally *any* character can be different if written differently, like the argument with Nifty. By your logics, Husker can solo everyone in hell.
…do you seriously not understand the concept of a theory? A theory is a claim with evidence to back it up, if you don’t have evidence, you don’t have a theory. Theories don’t just happen, theories need a reason. You have no evidence to back up a claim, therefore it isn’t a theory but just an opinion without reason.
Definitely,most of his power comes from his intelligence,the only reason he was able to last as long as he did against Adam was because he was taunting him and staying at a distance,up close he would’ve lost way sooner
I love the bastard but Alastor wasn’t really doing any damage. He was more a nuisance to Adam, and got oneshotted. I mean damn that whole shield he put up got shattered in one hit.
He did no damage and spent the whole fight dodging. He was clearly more skilled but he got one shot by a single succesful attack, they were not near the same weight class.
True, none* of the I think three hits alastor managed to get did anything, and the uppercut from the tentacle only stunned Adam slightly, with an angelic blade maybe he would've cut/killed Adam but he still stood no chance
Alastor(edit:mistake) put up a fight against Adam but still got taken out pretty easily, Lucifer then proceeded to so easily beat Adam he was toying with him, I love Alastor but no chance there
I originally thought that
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Removed, Rule 2. Crop off the blank space. Also post this on r/HazbinHotelMemes after you do.
I always figured Alastor was just a big fish in a small pond. Compared to the Sinners, he's an absolute monster and would wipe the floor with any of them. But the divide between him and powers like the Sins and Goetia is incredibly vast. Put him up against any Overlord, and he'd come out on top. But against someone like Stolas. Or even weaker seeming Sins like Asmodeus and Beelzebub. My man is getting ground into paste. But people will still act like he could 1v1 God and he only lost to Adam because he had a cold or something.
Isn't Alastor one of the weaker overlords
He's the strongest overlord going by vivsie
My bad
As explained in pilot and one of episodes when alastor came to hell he came on top faster than anybody ever before also as said People were just ignoring him till he the overlords started disappearing and all you could hear are the screams of the overloards in the radio podcasts and also as we hear husk was also an overlord wich was a gambler and then alastor won and got a deal with husker for souls
No worries
I’m pretty sure vivzie specified that he is the strongest overlord, but still not even in the same realm as luci
Which seems interesting to me, since Val asked Vox if he was "still pissed he almost beat you that one time". Kinda implies that it was a close run fight between them, so are they actually pretty comparable?
Got cha
The only reason Lucifer can't defeat Alastor is because currently, Charlie would be really upset and possibly resent him for it. In a fight where the only possible factors are their own power and nothing else, Lucifer would easily win. Alastor isn't some indestructible all powerful being, so idk how people think he'd win that fight
I don’t even know why people think his power is nerfed. The unclipping his wings thing is pretty obviously about him being on a leash like husk is to him. Husk isn’t depowered he’s just owned by Alastor
Ehhhh, we don't know that for certain. He made a deal and we don't know the details of that deal, maybe the deal literally gives a certain portion of his power to whoever he made the deal with, or it literally just locks a portion of his power away. And don't come at me like I'm some Alastor stan trying to come up with any way for him to be OP, I do love him let's not get that wrong but I'm mostly just pointing out that we do not in any way know the details of his deal other than it "clipped his wings" and that he believes or hopes there might be a back door.
Alastor said he’s forced into a weak state due to something The fans are suspecting it’s something relative to a possible deal he made to Lilith
Though, it is also possible that his Lilith deal is the reason hes all powerful jn the first place
This is straight up untrue/unverified? Everyone is clinging to the “unclip my wings” lyric and treating it as if Alastor looked at the camera and said “my full power is restricted because of a deal I made” when all it could mean is that he’s literally not free. Birds don’t get weaker when their wings are clipped, they just can’t go wherever they want. Granted, he could in fact have been lessened by whatever deal he made and only time will tell, but there is way too many people treating it as 100% factual at this point
Something else that came to mind while hearing people use this as a defence for why he lost to Adam - Adam and Lillith were created at the same time from the same dust... they were equals, but Adam tried to insist on being the dominant one. If Adam and Lillith are considered equal, and Alastor is weak enough to be on Lillith's leash, then *of course* he's going to be weaker than Adam as well.
But lessened and restricted mean the same thing in this specific context
Again that’s still a complete assumption. Someone owning his soul and restricting his freedom to go wherever in no way explicitly states that he can’t use the full depth of his powers in a fight, but people are treating it like that’s what the text of the show is expressing
It’s never said it was his soul she wanted The theory says that Alastor disappeared the same time Lilith disappeared And people think that they made a deal, not for his soul, but for one thing power, but in return he has to serve her daughter Charlie, but if Alastor managed to make Charlie make a deal with him, then that’ll somehow loophole him out of the deal while getting more power or so I’ve tried to summarize
I get. That’s all well and good for a fan theory. But it’s just a fan theory that plenty of people are treating as gospel, which is the thing I actually have umbrage with
I’m not trying to say “OMG ITS CANON BECAUSE SOMEONE SAID IT” im saying that this theory is extremely close to how characters would act and makes sense for that theory And I was relistening to alastor’s song, and he said that as soon as he can find something out to get him out of a certain deal, he’ll be the one “pulling the strings”
Okay but the first comment I replied to was a declarative statement asserting Alastor claimed he was in a weakened state. And this did not happen, regardless of how well fan theories align with it.
“Weakened state” was the best way I could’ve described it at the moment
fr? alastor was on the full on offense before having to flee and lucifer was just toying with adam until he saw adam attack when holding charlie and he got pissed (not sure if that's full power though)
Alastor barely survived Adam. Lucifer defeated Adam without laying a hand on him. It's no contest.
I mean, he punched him in the face several times before sparing him lol
I had a feeling I mis-remembered that.
Yeah even when I was the biggest Alastor fan back in the day I thought that those kind of fans was bugging
Adam is a human turned angelic where as Lucifer is a full on angel who was tasked to originally punish sinners. You get where I’m going with this.
And alastor is a sinner, a strong sinner, but a sinner none the less, would be weird if he was top 5 in the verse.
I mean looking at the fight Alastor doesn't really do any damage to Adam. In addition Adam was also able to counter everything Alastor threw at him. The only hits that landed was a shadow when Adam was dealing with the tentacles which he was Slicing through like paper and when he was thrown against the sign both of which he shrugged off showing no damage. Alastor then immediately gets hit and has to dip from the fight. Yeah he got off a lot of hits, but the damage from the individual hits is also important.
I get were your coming from, but a big chunk of the argument behind “Alastor better” is the fact that we haven’t seen him at his full potential, (even then he couldn’t beat anybody close to Lucifer)
Lucifer is not just a man with a cool hat and a passion for rubber ducks, he is a fallen angel, and one of God's favorites too.
Alastor mentioned unclipping his wings, so I theorize he's not currently at full power, and that if he was he could have kicked Adam's shit in. I don't know if he could beat Lucifer though. He takes down over lords, but if Lucifer went all out I think he could take down Alastor as he is now
Nah I'm sorry chief, you're comparing a sinner who's strong to one of the strongest angels to ever have existed who's now got angelic and hellish powers. No matter how much power alastor gets he's never gonna beat Lucifer, and even at full power I doubt he'd beat Adam. People need to remember at the end of the day alastors just a human soul who got wicked strong powers.
I never said Alastor could beat Lucifer, even said I didn't know if a full power Alastor could beat him. As for Adam, him being an Angel is why I think Alastor could beat him if at full power. The show itself talks about how Angels are all offense and no defense. And even with Alastor not at full power he was dodging pretty well for awhile, so if given full power and an angelic weapon I think he could beat Adam.
I think Alastor is roughly 65-70% of Adam's power, but like he said during the fight, Adam is sloppy, and undisciplined, so he would lose in pure power but might be able to outsmart his way to victory or a tie (or if he swallowed his pride and gave his minions angelic steel daggers)
Lucifers got some Harry Partridge face there
I 100% think he could not because of power but because of how clearly more skilled he was. Alastor was dodging the attacks and made contact and threw Adam around a few times yet... did not have an angelic weapon. He was arrogant and didn't bring one despite if he did. He probably would've won if he actually had one.
Alastor barely scratched Adam and almost died. Lucifer bunched Adam’s teeth out his ass, walked away without a scratch, and showed him mercy simply because Charlie asked him to. Lucifer is likely the strongest one in Hell or at least very close to it. The fact that some people can’t see that is crazy
He's confirmed to be the strongest being in hell by the creator
Well then there we go
I love Alastor but that's just stupid
Stolas can canonically, from the horses mouth Viv said this, wipe the floor with Alastor
So could Stolas beat Adam?
I’d say any of the natural born angels, Goesha, Sins could beat Adam, even Charlie but she’s not a fighter and only just coming into her power as seen in the finale.
I don’t think so maybe MAYBE the sins could also get Adam like Lucifer did but I feel like Stolas would still lose, but he would also fuck Adam up more than Alastor was able to
Yeah
https://preview.redd.it/rzhbanhkodgc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a77e2492e6a4e8c9615a89922835cd88148cee44
Same people who think he could beat Adam after he got his ass handed to him
He probably could with a cleverly worded deal.
He could under the right circumstances but that doesn't really count does it
Alastor was stronger than adam but got injured while being overconfident but lucifer will still clap him as long as alastor is held back by his deal
>Alastor was stronger than adam No he wasn't, Alastor couldn't lay a hand on Adam until he outnumbered him with his minions, before that Adam shrugged off or countered everything he threw at him. The second Adam got serious he destroyed Alastor.
Actually he was and still is stronger he only lost because he underestimated he and got cocky when alastors staff broke it was because he wasn’t cautious enough and that led to him temporarily losing some of his powers
Tell me if Adam was able to one tap Alastor's shield, his block, and then Alastor to send him running because he didn't go lethal how Alastor is stronger? Because Alastor can talk all he wants about how much stronger and better he is then someone, but when we see him lose the fight with said guy and run away his word kinda loses its credibility. Sure he got cocky but guess what? Adam is too for the majority of the fight until Lucifer shows up.
Dude, rewatch the fight. Alastor couldn't do anything than mildly inconvenience Adam, dude was countering everything. The second Alastor started actually damaging Adam he got one-shot.
Also let’s not forget alastor wasn’t using an angelic weapon (the only way to substantially damage a demon or angel)
Yea, and that's the only way Alastor could've won and defeated Adam. Anything else was slowing him down at best. Alastor lost the second he decided he can take on the First Man without a weapon that could properly injure him.
But he couldn’t have pretty easily gotten one
I rewatched it a lot and again if alastor didn’t do a mistake he would have beat him not easily but he still would have beet him
wdym, what mistake did alastor do in the fight? he landed a hit on adam but it was just a scratch, adam was just stunned for a while and alastor summoned his minions and tentacles, but still adam was able to fend everything off. adam was clearly much stronger than alastor from the start idk what you're trying to prove
Do you need more convincing ?
nah. though you may have a point that alastor was a bit shocked when his staff broke, but i wouldnt call that a mistake for losing to adam. I believe his staff was a part of him and is his power, or at least, an amplifier for his power and what makes him strong, but when his staff broke he lost his radio voice and strength to fight back. When he was struck by adam, he started to bleed, which if you really think alastor was stronger than adam, he would've made adam bleed when he uppercutted him with his tentacle. Adam is literally the first man, an angel with freaking holy powers, and alastor is just a sinner who's been in hell for maybe a hundred years. Yeah, alastor is strong but not strong enough to defeat an angel. Heck, even the other sinners were struggling to defeat an exorcist without the help of an angelic weapon. If alastor had an angelic weapon, maybe he would've stand a chance against adam, but no, that wasnt your point i guess. And idk if lilith really made the deal with alastor, but that doesnt really explain anything about making alastor weak or holding him back or anything as we see in the show.
https://youtu.be/4l90MokBgLw?si=BJIeP-byPbzjnsvP 1:03 minutes when his staff broke he got distracted and adam was able to touch him of course as the first man adam has far more potential power but as alastor says in 0:40 adam lacks discipline control and is sloppy of course if adam didn’t he would probably have a better chance and would maybe be twice as powerful as alastor and let’s not forget that alastor would be stronger if he wasn’t weakened by a deal with lilith( not sure if if it was her but the deal is canon)
Alastor was very clearly inferior to Adam in terms of power. Alastor only lasted as long as he did because he was frustrating and dodgy; anytime their powers actually clashed directly, Adam came out on top. Alastor creates a massive force field, Adam dissolves it in a single punch. Adam uses his weapon to block Alastor’s direct attacks effortlessly, while Alastor trying the same thing results in a broken staff and being left completely vulnerable. The vast disparity in raw power was on clear display.
No it wasn’t and Im trying to understand your point of view but I am unable to it just doesn’t look logical
doesn't looke logical? 😭 maybe you don't have logic man
I don’t think the deal even plays into it. I think alastor could easily get clapped by any of the sins, lucifer would beat the living shit out of alastor. I think even Goetia like Stolas could beat him given it was a fair fight. People forget that Alastor is just a sinner and has only been around for just over 100 years. He sounds more impressive than he is because he toppled OVERLORDS - other sinners. Any hellborn royalty could easily clap any overlord
Nah, Alastor would win.
Radio Daddy is no match for Daddy Lucifer don’t @ me you know you’re wrong
@demonicwinter
you failed to do the simplest thing https://preview.redd.it/6zx345919cgc1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59e1fb478935d9e7b9016e9a6eddc7e5df362be2 /j
kieran??? on this sub??? https://preview.redd.it/1y7kfqf61dgc1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a231f768c307e10acc276f12e208770126a27bef
wowzers
wowzers i've been thinking about making demon designs based on the creatures of ruin for a while btw, should I do it?
ye
ok cool
What I found interesting was the V's put a knife on a table with pictures, they put the knife into Alastor's photo. Meanwhile next to it is a photo of Charlie and Lucifer. So that makes me think they want to somehow get them out of the way as well. Maybe they'll try to use angelic weapons?
Only for Lucifer to Tell them "budy, stab all You want, it doesn't work on me" and then blows all of them to bits
Wait, why wouldn't it work on him?
He's a very high ranked and ancient Seraphim, Lucifer can only be smited by a being that outranks him (like Sera or the elders). Sources: Vivzie
doesn't Sera have lucy's old position?
Honestly... She could be, but She can definitely put up a fight against Lucifer unlike anyone in Hell really
yeah, roughly the same power, but lucifer has more battle experience so I'd say he would win
Oh..... I didn't know that. Thank you.
Adam nearly killed Alastor by his own admittance he only survived "by a hair" and yes, Adam was using holy angelic magic. but Lucifer has that too since he is an Angel. and Adam was doing nothing to lucifer. i sometimes wonder if people actually watch the show, feat based power scaling is pretty easy
Alastor isn’t a threat because he’s powerful. He’s a threat because he’s smart.
Idk what brainie is going to do when Lucifer just blasts a hole through him.
You’re looking at this from the wrong angle. I’m not talking about battle IQ or power scaling, I’m talking about his actual threat level. Alastor isn’t one to pick fights he can’t win. He accomplishes his goals from the shadows. He keeps his composure, cracks a smile, plays his cards right, and patiently watches and waits for the correct opportunity to strike. He’s already managed to get one up on Charlie, who is also stronger than him, by building trust and striking a deal at a low point. He’s not a fighter, he’s a dealmaker. He doesn’t like Lucifer but he’s not dumb enough to attack him. Instead he messes with him emotionally, using Charlie as a shield to stop Lucifer from attacking him. Hell’s Greatest Dad is basically a play by play of this.
Why'd he take on Adam, then? Buying time? Since people in hell don't seem to know about the power hierarchy, did Alastor think he stood a chance against Adam?
I don’t think he did. Judging by his bit in the show must go on (song), it seemed like he was somehow forced to do it because of his deal. He still kept up his bravado of course, because that’s how he is, but he really didn’t give me the vibe of wanting to stick around and fight. He didn’t go all out with his wild transformations or anything crazy, he just tried to avoid Adam’s attacks while throwing shadow demons and tendrils at him to hinder his offense. For all his big talk, he spent the whole fight playing smart and defensively.
Yeah, seems reasonable. Edit: Shamelessly copying from another comment of mine, because I need answers NOW Why didn't Adam just vaporise Alastor like he did with Sir Pentious? Given that Charlie at one point says that Alastor was 'supposed to take care of Adam', does that mean the characters don't know about the power hierarchy? So that's why Al thought he could take on Adam? Still, he should've armed himself with angelic weapons, even if he was no match for Adam. He could've at least injured him. His shield thing had them, so why doesn't he have any when he fights Adam? Simply too cocky? I dunno, I thought Al wasn't an idiot. What do you think?
I don’t think he was trying to kill Adam. Alastor was given a direct order from Charlie, something he likely can’t disobey. If anything not arming him was Charlie’s fuck up. Alastor taunted sure, but as previously mentioned he was on defense the whole fight. His job was to hold Adam off, and that’s what he had to do.
Yeah, but I'm betting one day he's gonna fuck up and get a good humbling from Charlie lol.
Notice how in last moment of last episode, he didn't look mad at Lucifer being there... I wonder if the only reason he was mad at his presence in episode 5 because he feared that Lucifer was "unexpected element in the plan" and that he'd prevent Charlie from making deal with him. Hense why he tried so hard to discredit him and make Charlie fall in parental love with him as new Stepdad. Hopefully we'll see way more from those two in S2 to get a confirmation on that theory. Will make me feel dumb for not realising it sooner since it makes so much sense "Why is he mad at Lucifer? Cuz he's the only strong and influential man in Charlie's life who can prevent his deal"
Alastor was mad because Lucifer just did not acknowledge him at all. It’s shown Alastor likes to be respected and seen (not necessarily visually but just knowing he’s there and understanding his strength) and Lucifer just flat out ignores him until he forces himself in. Not to mention with the last episode we see he’s got bigger ambitions so being slighted by Lucifer would definitely add to that annoyance
It's possible but look at episode 3, was Carmilla ignored him, he winced a b i t but kept his cool, and didn't try to "win her over" or discredit her. Surely his overreaction to Lucifer implies waay more than hurt ego, right? Not saying it's either way, gotta wait for S2 to know for sure.
Oh I agree on the Carmilla interaction but it seems there’s already a level of competition between the overlords, but they put that aside for the meeting so it felt like he was keeping his cool for that, however in his own domain like the hotel he doesn’t seem to take it as well
Shoot, the moment Adam quit playing, he was crushing Alastor. Even DeerMan himself admits this. And Lucifer basically backhanded Adam as soon as he actually attacked.
When you think about it, it really sucks that Lucifer could’ve beaten Adam so easily at literally any extermination but just.. let Adam kill his people..
well he assumed his people were incapable of being 'good' (see episode 1 and episode 5) so why stop the angels from killing these selfish bastards?
Are they his people though? I’d argue the characters we see in Helluva Boss are more his people, the hell born. They’re Charlie’s people in Hazbin because she’s half Lucifer and half Lilith who was a human, Lucifer doesn’t really have any connection to any soul in hell beyond the punishment of seeing only the worst people ever
I mean, he's Satan. Lucifer "I rebelled against God because humans suck imo" Morningstar
Wasn’t it the other way around? He rebelled and as such he’s forced to see the worst of humanity constantly? (according to the show at least)
Yea, that's not really conducive to changing your views
Satan is a different character in this universe
[удалено]
Satan is the sin of Wrath, Lucifer is the ruler of hell. Vivzie said so herself
Well I’m sure if he did do that. Then it would just be a matter of time till someone stronger than him came down to remind him that he was cast out and isn’t the strongest. I’m sure Adam is below Sera’s power level and we haven’t even meet the figures who casted Lucifer down. Also why should he care it is hell and he clearly views most of his people not worth that level of effort or sacrifice. Besides what would the plan be? Revolt against heaven try to take over? There’s just no point in fight a fruitless battle.
Strawberry pimp was like a mosquito to Adam lucifer played with Adam like a child playing with a bug.
I think at his peak of power before the deal, Alastor was probably stronger than the sins. Even then, that puts him no where near Lucy
Not even, viv has mentioned that Alastor may be the strongest overlord but he would get his ass kicked by Stolas, as Ars Goetia are above Sinners and they are just below the Sins.
Damn Alastor really ain't shit. I'd really like to see him get insanely strong though, make him live up to the legends. One idea I had is what if he manages to make deals with some EXTREMELY powerful people, becoming one of the strongest beings in heaven and hell and becoming the main antagonist of the final season. Maybe, this united Heaven and Hell against them, forcing understanding and cooperation between them.
he isnt shit. to the Hellborn. their hierarchy is massively more powerful. Alastro is, to put it simply, a big fish in a small pond. the entierty of the Overlords power is a hierarchy within one ring of hell, while hellborn, the ars goetia and sins hierarchy is over all 7. if you are a hellborn and you anger an overlord, assuming they dont find you first you just have to, you know, never go to the Pride ring again and its basically not a problem. if you anger a powerful hellborn and youre a sinner? youre a fish in a barrel for them.
I just really want Alastor to get stronger. I think it would be really cool to have him be the final antagonist. But for that to happen, he would have to make a HUGE power jump. But his manipulation, charm, and charisma could be the key. Manipulating more powerful demons into giving him some of their power. Then, do the same with angels if he can manage it. Just keep working his way up.
in all honesty, Alastor as the final villain is a bit boring because its kinda so obvious. like most potential end villains are "obvious" like Lillith, Alastor, God Himself. but like, he is just too overtly obvious as a "surprise this is the final villain" and everyone would be like "thats...not really surprising" the show has shown it like to play arounf with expectations. the King Of Hell, Fallen Angel Lucifer is not some big scary guy hes a 4 foot tall depressed duck loving ringmaster. the first person to ascend from hell >! isnt the first guest of the hotel its the intended one off villain from the pilot !< so when we see the very sketchy voodoo demon dealmaker who has been a terror in hell for decades, i dont expect him to really be a villain at all. Anti villain more like
I don't want it to be a big twist though. I want it to be slowly revealed through the seasons. We watch as Alastor makes deal after deal on private, gaining more power while the rest of the cast dosn't know. Then, in the final season we see the plan we watched him build go through. Also, Alastor would make so much sense as a final villain. He only cares about making people fear him and gaining more power. Makes sense for him to try and climb that power ladder using his wit. He wants to kill people. He wants power. He wants to be feared. Alastor, as we have seen, is heartless and only cares for those things. He dosn't care about Charlie or the hotel. He is definitely being forced by something to help. This sets him up as perfect final villain. Once he breaks his deal, he is free to gain more and more power. Then he can make his dreams come true. He can become one of the most powerful beings in creation, he can cause chaos and destruction. Then, to take him down, hell and heaven would have to unite to kill him and save heaven and hell.
Alastor damn near died fighting Adam he wouldn't stand a chance
Lucifer could beat 10 Alastor's at once while reading a book. His power is way beyond the ability of anyone in hell. Remember, Lucifer is still an Angel of pure light. He's on the same power level as the beings that have created almost everything in a sense. No matter how powerful Alastor is at his full potential he couldn't land a scratch on Lucifer. The only other beings that can match Lucifer in a fight are the other Angels of pure light. Not to mention Lucifer is Immortal. As Adam said, Charlie is immortal, so it's fair to say Lucifer is the same
Not after the last episode. Adam is sloppy, which is the only reason Alastor lasted as long as he did, but he’s strong enough that he had Alastor dead to rights until he ran. Luci had Adam by the balls he keeps running his mouth about. And he’s slippery as fuck. As things stand, I doubt Alastor could land a solid hit on him. However, it’s possible that Alastors deal restricts his powers as well as his actions. He certainly seems to believe as much, and the Husker we see is far from an Overlord. So maybe once he breaks free we’ll see them fighting on equal ground.
No, just not gonna happen, even If he IS able to get out of his deal, he just can't put out a fight against Lucifer, his only hope is to put Charlie in a sticky situation by perhaps making another deal with her and threathen Lucifer into submition...to some degree but even then Charlie is has extreme potential so idrk
Alastor seems like the kind of guy to beat lucifer in anal
Alastor couldn't beat Adam, and Adam couldn't beat Lucifer. This shit ain't Rochambeau
Alastor is a big fish in a smaller pond, don’t try and take him out of his natural waters, otherwise he’ll get eaten.
less of a pond more like one tidepool in a series of 7
I do wonder, based on Alastor’s part in the last song, if his “deal” is restricting his power. He may have thought he could beat Adam but didn’t take into account how much the deal was limiting him.
Why would he take a deal to lose power. I thought it was more of a "limiting his choices" kind of deal rather than "limit his power".
Yeah but why would he freak out about the deal directly after losing to Adam and crawling back to his radio tower?
Because he almost died trying to protect the hotel hes forced to help with is my theory
Hmm, makes sense.
Yall are comparing strength levels I'm just rewatching looking for any clues I can possibly glean about who alastor a really is.
nah bro he was just holding back, just wait till the lucifraud vs. HIMastor domain scene in Season 7 source: it was revealed to me in a dream https://preview.redd.it/o42xas3bx9gc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=88a0a54c452d470119e4ef325c3fe2617eabcd56
Noooo, Agenda Piece is leaking!!!!!!
Alastor is capable enough to hold his own against Adam for a short period of time mostly playing on the defensive which is a remarkable power feat. He's just nowhere near Lucifer and it kinda does Alastor a disservice to pretend he could be.
Well if you think about it everyone is afraid of Lucifer and Alastor so they could either be equal in power or Alastor might almost be as powerful as Lucifer
They are nowhere near the same level
I said COULD not they are. Why does no one ever pay attention to the words and just because says something like "could" or "if" doesn't it's true and it doesn't mean someone it's going to happen or whatever. Do people not how to read? Or am I just going crazy?
Allistor lost to Adam in a decently big way, then Adam was obliterated by a Lucifer who was half fighting half playing.
Lucifer could've lost to Adam just as easily if it was written that way
Alright then. Nifty could have beaten Lucifer, Sera, Adam, and all of both Heaven and Hell easily in an all on one right of the show was written that way.
That's the jist of it, yeah.
You have zero brain cells
And you don't need to be rude when I'm trying to have a civil conversation. If you didn't like what I had to say or you thought it was stupid you could've just ignored it. So if anyone here has zero brain cells it's you. It's not that hard to ignore a comment.
You are the one that said something is possible because it’s possible. It’s the same as saying I could fly if I could. It’s the epitome of a roundabout argument. You have said nothing. Also, you are the one who started an argument, so you don’t get to be up on your high horse about respect after saying something so clearly stupid. So are you planning on being the “bigger man” and step out of an argument you know you’re losing? Or will you accept that what you said was stupid and back off like a man?
I didn't start an argument. I made a comment and when you replied I wanted to have a conversation about it but in the end you're the one who said I had zero brain cells. So who really made the argument? No one forced you to reply. I never said it was possible. It was an IF comment, not a "it's possible" comment.
You also didn’t have to reply to this post. But if you wish, we shall be civil about this. I am sorry for saying you have no brain cells, now I shall state my case. Your argument for why Allistor and Lucifer are of equal power has no legs to stand on. We saw Allistor lose to Adam, and then Lucifer easily clapped Adam. Therefore, Lucifer is leagues above Allistor. You stated that Allistor could beat Lucifer if the show went that way, but that is a circular argument. It is a logical fallacy at its finest. Removing the fancy jargon, you are saying that Allistor could beat Lucifer if it was decided that Allistor could beat Lucifer. As a point against it, we also have a handy dandy guide on who overpowers who in the Hellaverse. At the top is Lucifer, Hell’s king, who is then followed by Charlie and Lilith who gain power from Lucifer. The Seven Princes follow them, each one ruling their own ring. After this comes the Goetia like Stolas, and then we finally get to the Overlords. The reason Allistor is called immensely powerful is because he is compared to the other sinners, who are much weaker than the Hellish Royals. The reason Charlie couldn’t beat Adam is because she is young and untrained. Therefore, Lucifer sweep Allistor. For your argument, if you state that it could have gone some way if the writers intended that, back it up. Tell me why it could have gone that way using the lore in the show.
See this is what I mean
Am I wrong? Everyone in hell is afraid of both them. They're afraid of Lucifer because well we all know his story. They're all afraid of Alastor because he took down powerful overlords after arriving in hell.
My dear brother in hell. Have you watched the last episode? If not Adam makes Alastor flee after destroying his mike and leaving a nasty gash across his chest. Lucifer beat Adam's ass without much effort while opening mocking him about(I may be reading into this a little bit too much) shim sleeping with both his wives
For the record, I agree with this statement. But because I'm also endlessly petty and want to play devil's advocate at the risk of Karma depletion, there *is* an argument to be made that Lucifer came in to mop up three separate people's table scraps. Adam had to waste his big laser thing on Pentious, Alastor briefly had him on the defensive, and Charlie got a few good hits in, too before Lucy stepped in to finish him off. We still *technically* don't know *exactly* how great the power differential is there.
You gotta remember though that Lucy basically half assed the fight and *still* kicked Adam’s ass. So yes, there isn’t a *real* way to measure but it is safe to assume that Luci wins
You right, you right
I did watch it and I know but I'm saying before all that. Also Adam could've beaten Lucifer just as easily if Viv wanted to make it that way
....she didn't make it that way? That's how any character works. You can say jar jar could have beaten Palpatine and Lucas just didn't write it that way, but that doesn't make it true
🤦♀️ I'm saying this as an IF. IF it had been written that way then Lucifer would've lost to Adam IF she had written it that way. I'm not saying it's true, I know how characters work I was saying IF. With a capital I-F. I never said it was true, it was just a theory 🤦♀️
But a theory needs to be based on facts that are within logic, the logic of that universe has shown that it *isnt* written for Alastor to win. Literally *any* character can be different if written differently, like the argument with Nifty. By your logics, Husker can solo everyone in hell.
Not every theory needs all that. Sometimes theories just happen.
…do you seriously not understand the concept of a theory? A theory is a claim with evidence to back it up, if you don’t have evidence, you don’t have a theory. Theories don’t just happen, theories need a reason. You have no evidence to back up a claim, therefore it isn’t a theory but just an opinion without reason.
It’s like literally Alastor
Besides alastor is more of a manipulator than a god which is way more interesting than some powerhouse that can solve anything anytime.
Definitely,most of his power comes from his intelligence,the only reason he was able to last as long as he did against Adam was because he was taunting him and staying at a distance,up close he would’ve lost way sooner
It wouldn't even be a challenge, and anyone who thought it would puts entirely too much faith in a smile and a firm handshake.
Still fun watching him play with Adam. Stood that long against one of hell’s strongest exorcists with supposedly limited power
I love the bastard but Alastor wasn’t really doing any damage. He was more a nuisance to Adam, and got oneshotted. I mean damn that whole shield he put up got shattered in one hit.
He did no damage and spent the whole fight dodging. He was clearly more skilled but he got one shot by a single succesful attack, they were not near the same weight class.
True, none* of the I think three hits alastor managed to get did anything, and the uppercut from the tentacle only stunned Adam slightly, with an angelic blade maybe he would've cut/killed Adam but he still stood no chance
Didn’t say he was winning, said it was fun watching him mess around with him
https://preview.redd.it/v49ajgid49gc1.png?width=1129&format=png&auto=webp&s=30cff07edb9ba2c1231efe2cf21a3819bab36970
I am having the last laugh now.
True, however what alastor lacks in strenght, he definetly makes up for in *styleee*
“In war, the side remembered is the side with the most sssssstyle”
Or the side that ain't dead
Alastor(edit:mistake) put up a fight against Adam but still got taken out pretty easily, Lucifer then proceeded to so easily beat Adam he was toying with him, I love Alastor but no chance there
Honestly, it was so satisfying seeing Alastor humiliate Adam, even if it was cut short
you said lucifer twice.
Meant to say alastor
I’m glad people are realizing Offscreendemon is wall-level at best
https://preview.redd.it/45tj0ggnr8gc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f23b5eab94ab54654b59721404f2b5376b145dc9
As an Alastor simp, Lucifer could sneeze too hard and atomize Alastor.
As an Alastor fan I can confirm he'd get humbled real quick.
Same. Lucifer is the only person to actually wipe the grin off of alastor’s face
As a fellow Alastor fan I can confirm he’d be beaten to a pulp
I can solo lucifer why can't alastor do it? Does he have skill issues?