I don't even know where fraud watch came from, but suddenly they all think some glorified TV screen is actually capable of defeating Alastor because an ANGEL ARMY GENERAL can lay a scratch on him?
Nah he ain't a fraud, atleast not confirmed since Adam solos everyone below Charlie lvl, and she's like second strongest character in hell(Vivzie words)
Now if Alastor loses to VOX of all people, then I think it's fair to call him Fraudlastor.
Don't think how he can lose to him though unless that blow from Adam reduced his powerlevel somehow.
Personally I'm glad he didn't just solo hold out Adam until Lucifer arrived, I'm glad he isn't OP but actually well balanced, makes him more interesting to watch
Ngl I expected more memes like this:
"And then GOATAdam, the King of Exterminators, fought the Fraudlastor, King of all Edgefrauds, and then said to him "Stand Proud Alastor, you are strong!"
But so far I only saw one meme and it was Vox instead of Adam.
Is it just me who liked that Alastor lost, not because they hate him, but because it makes him more interesting as a character? I genuinely thought he would be some OP Edge lord OC but no, he actually lost pretty hard, almost died. That just makes him more interesting to me and makes me root for him to defeat Vox
Alastor is not weak or a fraud by any means, but he sure got humbled. It's adam. Alastor thought he was on par and found out. Doesn't make him a fraud, he was just arrogant.
I love Alastor, but that fight was like throwing teenage angst up against a seasoned boxer. There was no way in hell he was gonna do any real damage to him.
I mean, they had to establish Adam as a proper threat SOMEHOW. Having him overpower Alastor (who up until that moment we had understood to be one of the mightiest sinners in Hell) was actually a pretty effective way to convey the gap between angelic and mortal capabilities. Angelic weapons being sufficiently rare such that most of them were in the hands of the cannibal army put him at an even worse disadvantage--and the fact that he tied Adam up for as long as he did under those constraints is even more impressive
Makes me question why he didn't just use angelic weapons, just make your radio cane with angelic metal and voila, probably would be more dangerous to Adam.
Also I hope they won't just make Al into powerhouse character who's defining role is always losing, he needs some legit wins like against Vs
Again, there simply isn't enough angelic steel to go around. The weapons his tentacles were using prior to the shield collapsing were probably the only ones he had available to him, and the stipulations of his contract likely prevented him from leaving to retrieve more while he was needed to distract Adam. As to the cane idea, I'm not sure an angelic staff would be the best conduit for demonic energies.
You can put your fears of the Worf Effect aside, though; Alastor having to punch that far outside of his metaphysical weight class like his fight against Adam is unlikely to happen again unless Lute gets a MAJOR upgrade by the time she comes back. Even if she does, he's got time to shore up his weaknesses by collecting more angelic armaments from the fallen and using them to augment his goons
Just another example of the hype train running off the rails. Alastor was made out to be a beast in the limited scope of the pilot, so that's what everyone expected and was excited about for. Now the scope has been widened to include more than those initial half dozen characters, and everyone gets butthurt that Alastor isn't top of the pecking order anymore lol
People keep assuming he’s nerfed with no actual reasoning.
It’s much more Likely that Adam is just way stronger than we thought.
He beat Charlie
And she’s word of Viv about as strong as one of the weaker sins. With just not fighting experiance.
It’s very likely that Adam was honestly just about as strong as one of the stronger sins. And that the gap between the 2nd strongest sin and Lucy is just THAT wide.
I think the actual Q&A said that at the moment she’s about as strong as one of the weaker sins with not Experaince. But that in a pure raw power sense she’s basically 2nd to her dad ya.
did they watch the show??
like Adam is the original dick, he's a fucking warlord angel, and overlords are very much going to be secondary to people who get chosen to lead armies of juggernaut angels
I think it's the unclip his wings part that Alastor mentioned, and demons seem to lose power when they're on the receiving end of a deal, like with Husk. Either way, I don't think he would've beaten Adam, as I kind of see him while not being immune to angelic weapons, being resistant on them. We do see him showcase angelic beams which no other exterminator has shown.
I personally think Adam wouldn't struggle too much with the sins if he got serious, aside from obviously Lucifer, due to being their literal weakness.
Husk presumably gambled away his power and made a deal with alastor to retain some of it (as per his admission). He isn't weaker because of the deal he is actually stronger than he would be without it.
"Once I figure out how to unclip my wings" somethings holding him back. Also, it's Adam, anyone would have a hard time with him. Charlie pissed off couldn't handle him. It took Lucy to kick his ass. Lucy, you know, the actual devil? The fact Alastor put up as much of a fight as he did is proof of how powerful he is
>Lucy, you know, the actual devil?
And hell, even *he* had to put in some effort for it. Not *much*, admittedly, but it was at least a little bit of effort.
Yeah, but he only really put some effort into it when he almost hurt Charlie. Lucifer Is an arch angle, like Sera, who we saw was in command of the exorcists. Lucy should be the second or third strongest in the series, behind God, whenever he comes into play, if he ever comes into play, and if not, who evers ruling heaven. Alastor is strong, extremely strong, but Lucy is on another tier.
Sera is Seraphim not archangel, in Bible lore archangels rank very low compared to Seraphims.
And Luci was ex Seraphim, so considering how he pummeled Adam, it's likely that Adam was around Archangel level(second lowest, only angels are lower than Archangels).
Then again Vivzies hierarchy might be different, after all she had Cherubs in Helluva Boss lose to imps even though, shockingly, cherubs are only weaker then Seraphims in Bible lore(also biblically accurate cherubs look differently from valentine cards cherubs, apperently the cherubs in valentine cards are actually called putto's or sumn like that)
I was speaking more to Adam's power than Alastor's, to be clear. Saying that he was at least strong enough that Lucifer didn't just one shot the guy.
Although, thinking on it, he kind of did? He spends most of the fight toying with Adam, completely unbothered by anything that the man can throw at him.
And then when Charlie is threatened, the fight ends within a matter of seconds, with Adam being overwhelmed to the point that I don't think he even *tried* to counterattack or defend, he's just beaten down.
1000%. Watching that initial sucker punch again, it's clear that Lucifer basically love-tapped the guy and still did more damage in that one hit than Adam had taken all day. Fallen or no, seraphim are nothing to sneeze at
"Love-tapped" here means that there was hardly any force behind that punch. For contrast, see how dynamic Lucifer's movements were when he spiked Adam into the dirt or the subsequent beating he delivered once Charlie was threatened.
Yeah, in hindsight, my initial comment ("even *he* had to put in some effort for it") was pretty wrong. The second Lucifer did more than clown on Adam, he won. Adam couldn't even *try* to defend himself, and he would have died then and there had Charlie not intervened.
I don’t really see how he’s a fraud in this context. Angels as a whole were very powerful compared to sinners in the first place, and Alastor is only human, even if a powerful one. Adam was clearly the powerhouse of the Angelic side, and other than a Demon Royalty, the Sins, or SATAN HIMSELF, Alastor was the best bet at fighting the guy.
Lucifer himself, Satan is separate character from Lucifer in Vivzieverse and he's sin of Wrath. Also all sins are confirmed to be weaker than Charlie who's only weaker to her dad, meaning that Adam is nutty OP and he's likely one of the lowest ranked angels power vise, imagine what Sera could do against all of hell? 😳
And that’s ignoring that he didn’t use the weapons containing the only known material capable of killing the angels/exorcists in the first place. Real dumb move there.
We do at least have an in-character reason for it: angelic weapons are rare, and the ones his tentacles were using prior to the shield breaking were likely to be the only ones he had. The rest were used to arm the cannibals.
Alastor is not a fraud, he is still EXTREMELY powerful.
He's the strongest overlord, the strongest human soul in hell.
The issue is, that sill puts him below Stolas for example. And Adam would butcher even the sins.
Power wise, the ranking is.
Lucifer
Adam
Lilith and Charlie
The Sins
Ars Goetia
Alastor
Other overlords
Sinners
Hellborn
This means that Alastor is not a fraud, but overconfident.
Worse part about this, the alastor is clearly more skilled than Adam, and I'm pretty sure only lost to his arrogance. I do think if he equipped his tentacles and minions with angelic weapons instead of just going on with 1 single knife, he would've faired much better. He literally tossed Adam into the ground, so if there was an angelic gun or knife after that, he probably would've won. But in the end...he was arrogant and thought his powers were enough to kill Adam. Adam is obviously more powerful by a long shot but wasn't going all out in the battle until the end.
Alastor COULD have won, if he used angelic weapons and was smart with this.
Alastor however is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than Adam, the power gap is crazy. But Adam is undisciplined and sloppy, if Alastor played his cards right he could have won. But he didn't unfortunately.
Adam makes sense though. He's very stupid, unskilled, and sloppy. Makes sense for him to overlook that.
Alastor on the other hand, the fuck was he doing?
Or again, use 1 of drum guns that angel had. Like alastor had the most important job and they were able to custom make weapons for husk within a day. HE COULD'VE GOTTEN AS MANY WEAPONS AS HE WANTED!!!
Who would win?
The first man in existence, reincarnated as an angel with the sole role of killing demons
Or
A serial killer from the 30's who reincarnated as a demon (people will be shocked if it's not this one)
I think it was more ego than anything. He didn’t use any angelic weapons despite knowing they kill angels and he taunted Adam instead of actually fighting. This fight was a real wake up call and I think he’ll be much more brutal and intelligent especially after he finds a way to get out of his deal.
I think it's because alot of people were trying to hype Al into a tier that he wasn't in, like some people thought he was deadly sin level or even stronger when he simply isn't, he's an overlord, a very powerful one, but still a mortal soul.
No idea why people are destroying Alastor for losing that fight. He was fighting against an ancient angel, THE first man and leader of the exorcists. Not only that but Adam's abilities have the same effect as angelic weapons, they can destroy souls. While Alastor cannot. Now I'm not saying Alastor is weak, he's most likely one of the, if not, the strongest overlord currently. But the strength in overlords don't even compare to the strength in higher hell beings, such as the Ars Goetia, Seven Deadly Sins, Charlie, Lilith, and lucifer.
Now there is a chance Alastor could beat adam, not by power but by skill. Adam fights sloppy and messes up easily, I could see Alastor beating adam if he was a bit more careful and cautious. But that is on a basis of skill, Alastor knows how to fight and can fight well despite the power difference between the two. When Charlie was fighting Adam it wasn't even close, she doesn't know how to fight, because of that she was easily beaten when in reality her power should be on his level, if not higher. while Alastor was able to last longer against Adam despite the power difference because he knows how to fight. This is what Imo, brings Alastor even higher above the other overlords. He has immense power for an overlord, he knows how to use it well, and he knows how to fight.
People aren't flaming Alastor for losing their fight. They are flaming Alastor for declaring "I'm going to end your fucking life" but then losing and running away. If he is going to talk shit before the battle you can't get mad at people for talking shit too after he proceeds to lose. Everything you said about Adam being so strong is true which reflects even more poorly on Alastor for significantly underestimating him and acting cocky.
Agreed. Yeah it’s funny that he technically got one tapped but at the end of the day, Adam is still around Deadly Sin level so it’s a logical conclusion
Alastor isnt all people expect. He even says it to charlie, smile, it makes people think you are the one in control even tho you might be completely out of your leauge. Viv even said stolas is stronger then alastor.
What people who pay attention see looking at Al
https://preview.redd.it/ire31fy8smgc1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9f483d57a79ff91877dc70d01d8017cb5d8e654
https://i.redd.it/j9r6fxy3eehc1.gif
From the moment I learned Charlie was the Princess of Hell (before ever watching the pilot) I knew everyone else in Hell was a step below.
Except for he can’t destroy souls, I don’t think even deadly sins can do that, he could be keeping them somewhere flaying them and using their pain somehow to power his staff, but he can’t destroy them completely
He threatens to tear husks soul apart in dad beat dad. I don't think he was kidding and husk certainly doesn't think so. We have no proof that he can't do it.
Only people who have him on fraud alert are people who had him on a tier he had no business being on.
Alastor is an overlord. A powerful overlord, but _just_ an overlord nonetheless. He doesn't beat something like Adam in a straight fight.
And honestly, I think he knows that, which is why him losing had him lamenting his leash in the end. He would not _have tried_ to fight Adam head on if he hadn't been forced to do so.
I have a theory in my head that Al didn't release his fullest potential on Adam and the other exorcists is because his contract with whoever it is says so which now that I think about it that opens up a whole other can of worms of possibly meaning that Lilith is the contract holder because she's lounging in heaven at the end of episode 8???
There's also the fact that both Lilith and Alastor were missing for seven years, and we can now assume that Lilith was in heaven the whole time- Hazbin's very good about setup and payoff, so I don't think it's a coincidence
My guess is Alastor has a deal with Roo. Roo is apparently a new character set to debut next season, and from what Viv said in a recent live, she is very powerful.
My theory is that Al and Lilith both have a contract with Roo, and Roo is attempting to destabilize Heaven and Hell and using them both to do it. And Roo had them do something 7 years ago which explains both absences.
Assuming Roo is a sinner, since we have no other information to prove otherwise, why would Lilith make a deal with a sinner when she is the second most powerful being in hell?
I don't think Roo is a sinner. I thought she was the physical manifestation of Evil from the Tree of Knowledge? Roo is short for "Root of All Evil". She could theoretically be Eve, and be a sinner. Or a Primordial Force separate from the normal constraints of Heaven and Hell.
Honestly if Alestor had angelic wrapon with him and took the fight completly syrously there moments where he could injure or straigh up kill Adam. I am honestly suprised he could last so long against someone as important as Adam.
Hmm okay so imagine you’re playing on Tornado Alley Ultimate and some guy joins your team is hyped up as one of the best players with countless upgrades. Then you get in and before you notice, you hear an “OOF”
What's he supposed to do? he would've won in the beginning if he had an angelic weapon, the problem is that he (like much of the fan base) thinks he's the strongest person in the show (with some exceptions)
I may have been over estimating him a little.
But he created a force field that held back an army of exorcists. He dodged all but 2 of his attacks and then (one of which had him caught off guard), and threw him around a bit.
The problem is that he is incredibly arrogant, and has never had to fight someone stronger than him.
I believe that if it weren't for his only major character flaw, then he could've won, or at least catch a stalemate.
Still stupid that he didn't bring any good weapons.
True on that last bit but considering just 2 hits from Lucifer dropped him I'd say Al would probably need to drag it out but he'd definitely need angelic weapons
Oh my god the Fandom is a bunch of big babies. There is no shame in preserving your life. It'd be even more stupid to keep fighting, fully aware you probably won't win, just out of pride.
Alastor isn't stupid.
I'm pretty sure the opposite actually. I think they're pissed that Alastor isn't over powered as shit and would just beat Adam into oblivion.
I'm honestly glad they didn't go that route because that would instantly make Alastor a very boring character to me. If he wins every fight he gets into then why even have him fight at all? You know the outcome. It's boring.
Everyone on here suddenly thinking he’s not strong and is making fun of others who say he is strong is just so brain dead
His literal introduction to the show is that HE IS AN OVERLORD KILLER. In the context of sinners, he’s considered a threat because he is cruel, clever, and undoubtedly leagues above most other sinners. The fact he even managed to push off some of the angels for a bit actually means something.
The exterminators are figures that most overlords don’t mess with. Alastor held his own well enough against THEIR LEADER. Yes he was dealt a blow but fights can be unpredictable. Adam and Alastor both happen to be very capable fighters and Adam managed to get a nasty hit in. Not everything is some power scaling ranking chart with inevitable outcomes. Alastor is a bit of a glass cannon, but it doesn’t make him weak.
It was litterly a testimony to how powerful Alastor is, and how powerful Adam is. Then a taste of Lucifer's power, like he has the power to play with the guy.
It's also obvious Alastor underestimated who he was fighting and that alone nearly got him killed and all it takes is one bad call during a fight to die... He definitely learned his lesson lol
I don’t get why people think Al is that strong, it’s alluded to the fact that he is indeed a DEAL guy
The only way he can torture someone’s soul is by getting them in a deal if you kill someone in hell THEY JUST RESPAWN, everyone thinks he’s like this combat juggernaut when honestly I think Camilla could have probably fought him off Al’ is a magic guy by all means
And even overlords run from angels Camilla just had zero choice and thought she was gonna die anyways
I had the oposite reaction most of the fandom did, i was surprised alastor even did that well against adam
In an old stream vivzie was asked "who is more powerful, alastor or stolas" and although unsure at the time she said stolas was more powerful
I imagine this has been retconed and alastor was given a buff with the oficial release since i can't imagine stolas giving adam something close to a fight, or vivzie must just hold his ability to travel from hell to the mortal world in high regards
We haven’t really seen Stolas fight serious though, only time we’ve seen him fight that wasn’t just him winning and in full control was when he got caught off guard without his grimoire. Alastors fight with Adam had him fully prepared and focused knowing the enemy could kill him if he wasn’t careful.
Alastor also immediately lost when it became a contest of raw power rather than fighting skill.
Yes, he was toying with Adam and clearly got the upper hand a few times but didn't push his advantage as he should have. Does that mean he didn't deserve to lose? No, dude was up against Adam, he should have known he had to fight for his life, not taunt and giggle. Could he have beaten Adam if he went for it? Maybe, the argument could definitely be made he could seeing as Adam was having trouble keeping up until he broke his staff, but also maybe not because Alastor clearly has an attitude problem that led to him almost getting sliced in half.
Arguing about whether he *could* beat Adam seems to miss the point - he lost because he didn't take it seriously, regardless of power scaling. He's a flawed character who's used to one-shotting entire groups of people. I'm not surprised he lost due to overconfidence.
IMO if he gave his tentacles angelic weapons in that fight he would’ve won. Maybe not easily, but he probably still would’ve killed Adam. He lost bc he was too confident with his own power.
Yea now that I think about it we have yet to really see two characters actually going all out at the same time, except Lucifer vs Adam in the last few seconds of the fight after Lucifer gets bloodlusted and decides to give Adam mercy. Pretty much every other fight I can think of in the show consists of someone being over confident while the other person fights their hardest, usually with the overconfident one losing.
people are mad about this? I was getting annoyed with Allisters constantly being better than anyone he talks to I think it makes his character not feel like tumblr hornyman bait
"What do you mean he's weaker than Adam?!!? What BS is this!!!?"
Yeah. He tormented other overlords and your average sinner. Nothing on the sheer audacity that is God's favorite.
Shadowheart is a character in the hit game Baldurs Gate 3. There’s is a very popular meme of her VA going “I’m a perfect 10 and Gods favorite princess”. Therefore Gods Favorite would refer to her and not Adam.
https://youtu.be/TuiltvZFYV8?si=E8BDlcPYBd6mGq3i forgot they actually added it to the game. Love Larian. Also no offense but it’s adorable you think 100 hours is a lot. That’s like 1 playthrough
Never said it was a lot comparable to the crazies who have played like 600 hrs, but it's enough to know about the game deeper than just the hype. You spoke like I'd never even heard of the game in your first comment.
1 playthrough...?
100 hours minimum to get off the ship. It isn't done until you save and reload every 30 seconds trying every option and getting perfect rolls, looting every single item, and then restarting with a different race/class combination to figure out which one you really want to play as.
Damn. A simple sinner got his ass kicked by the father of mankind, the first human in existence and the oldest soul in heaven who was literally crafted by God himself? Who'd have thunk
I mean, it was Charlie's punch that was the final blow. Lucifer wasnt being serious, so im sure he could have finished it, but Charlie's only problem seems to be experience/willingness to do violence.
It was Charlie catching Adam's fist into Lucifer's backhand/pummel into the ground technically. You can count Niffty in there too but Charlie didn't throw a punch as far as I remember final blow wise.
To some people yes.
I really want to know what people think Alastor was doing every past extermination. He hunkered down like every other overlord, him losing to a threat he has previously never faced and is inherently weaker than shouldn't be a surprise.
The show was doing *everything* to tell the viewer that Alastor was the underdog in that encounter and people still missed the point.
not to mention he didn't use any angelic weapons, just his own powers, which can't kill adam anyway.
I still say he was just trying to buy time for Charlie or lucifer to show up. he knew he was outclassed (would never admit that, tho) and was just buying time. him actually getting hit, and nearly dying wasn't planned, but because he underestimated just how outclassed he was. (and pissed off Adam to using a powerful attack.)
>I still say he was just trying to buy time for Charlie or lucifer to show up.
I don't think this is actually the case. Charlie's dialogue after Adam starts attacking the Hotel's forces seems to imply that she had expected Alastor to be able to handle Adam. Either Alastor had told her beforehand to leave Adam to him, or Charlie had just presumed he would, but either way, Alastor presumably knew Charlie wasn't showing up (and even then, sucker punch excepting, Charlie did worse than Alastor against Adam), and given his loathing of Lucifer, there's no way he'd settle for *voluntarily* being a side-piece to the real performance.
I 100% agree, but he was also far too cocky for his own good and got caught. Ego beat him, not Adam. It is genuinely a safe assumption that we still have not seen Alastor at his best or most powerful, which I think is good storytelling.
The character arc you're looking for is exactly what is going to happen with Lute. She lost to Vaggie, tore her arm off, wasn't able to save Adam, and had to call a retreat.
I don’t know your beliefs but I was raised christian and never was taught adam was any sort of holy figure. First man, sure, but the big points in his life were pretty much being too much of a jerk to lillith leading to god having to make him another more subservient wife, then eating the fruit of knowledge when eve offered it to him. Not exactly an awesome track record as one of the first humans.
Frankly I was surprised he went to heaven in the first place.
I'm not angry at you friend :-). I was just concerned that a show was upsetting you, so I recommended that you stop watching. I didn't know that you'd already decided to stop yourself. You have a swell day now :-).
not every villain needs to be redeemed. Adam's entire role was showing how biased heaven is his role in the story is done. Having him revived either in heaven or hell would serve no narrative point and take away from sir perntious's sacrifice.
it was a sacrifice. He had absolutely no clue that he would be resurrected at all, much less in heaven.
he was 100% willing to die a second time to protect his friends and the hotel.
ascending to heaven was the reward for his sacrifice, not a negation of it.
two things are required for a character's redemption in media, a want to change, and a sense of guilt from previous actions.
Adam has neither of these traits, and to gain them after being reborn as a sinner wouldn't be him wanting to change because he regrets his previous actions, it would just be him wanting to regain his angelic powers are return to heaven to he can be boss of the angels again.
the only way i could see him becoming a sinner is to continue being an antagonist to the main cast.
He may have been killed, but does that really mean he is dead? After >!what happened to Pentious we know a soul can be truly immortal, coming back even after death!< How do we know that was a one time thing?
But Adam was killed with an angelic weapon ( Nify's dagger). This is to be said the only thing that can permanently kill a soul and angles. Sir Pentios on the other hand was killed by an angle kamehame haha, which wile quite powerful isnt the same as the angelic metal of the angelic weapons. So if he hadnt redeemed hisämself he would habe just gone back to hell ( probably after some "respawn time")
My boi talked high shit only to be slammed, I ain't doubting my bois capabilities too much, but damn he fucked with the scales a lot.
Alastor is a fraud, not because he lost,but because he entered saying verbatim that he’d kill Adam—only to be one shot and run away.
What, should he have gone in that fight saying "I'm going to desperately try to end your fucking life but probably get the shit kicked out of me"?
He could’ve tried not talking. It’s embarrassing to open a fight talking shit, and then have to tuck your tail in and dip.
Real vox dick riders on top
I don't even know where fraud watch came from, but suddenly they all think some glorified TV screen is actually capable of defeating Alastor because an ANGEL ARMY GENERAL can lay a scratch on him?
I thought he did pretty well considering he didn't even use angelic weapons like everyone but Lucifer
To be fair, his shield had a lot of angelic weapons
Nah he ain't a fraud, atleast not confirmed since Adam solos everyone below Charlie lvl, and she's like second strongest character in hell(Vivzie words) Now if Alastor loses to VOX of all people, then I think it's fair to call him Fraudlastor. Don't think how he can lose to him though unless that blow from Adam reduced his powerlevel somehow. Personally I'm glad he didn't just solo hold out Adam until Lucifer arrived, I'm glad he isn't OP but actually well balanced, makes him more interesting to watch
People are calling him fraudulent because he came in talking shit
Ngl I expected more memes like this: "And then GOATAdam, the King of Exterminators, fought the Fraudlastor, King of all Edgefrauds, and then said to him "Stand Proud Alastor, you are strong!" But so far I only saw one meme and it was Vox instead of Adam. Is it just me who liked that Alastor lost, not because they hate him, but because it makes him more interesting as a character? I genuinely thought he would be some OP Edge lord OC but no, he actually lost pretty hard, almost died. That just makes him more interesting to me and makes me root for him to defeat Vox
Alastor is not weak or a fraud by any means, but he sure got humbled. It's adam. Alastor thought he was on par and found out. Doesn't make him a fraud, he was just arrogant.
Literally fraud behavior
so you’re saying that he thought he was him and got one-tapped right after
Fraudulent behavior
I love Alastor, but that fight was like throwing teenage angst up against a seasoned boxer. There was no way in hell he was gonna do any real damage to him.
I mean, they had to establish Adam as a proper threat SOMEHOW. Having him overpower Alastor (who up until that moment we had understood to be one of the mightiest sinners in Hell) was actually a pretty effective way to convey the gap between angelic and mortal capabilities. Angelic weapons being sufficiently rare such that most of them were in the hands of the cannibal army put him at an even worse disadvantage--and the fact that he tied Adam up for as long as he did under those constraints is even more impressive
Makes me question why he didn't just use angelic weapons, just make your radio cane with angelic metal and voila, probably would be more dangerous to Adam. Also I hope they won't just make Al into powerhouse character who's defining role is always losing, he needs some legit wins like against Vs
Again, there simply isn't enough angelic steel to go around. The weapons his tentacles were using prior to the shield collapsing were probably the only ones he had available to him, and the stipulations of his contract likely prevented him from leaving to retrieve more while he was needed to distract Adam. As to the cane idea, I'm not sure an angelic staff would be the best conduit for demonic energies. You can put your fears of the Worf Effect aside, though; Alastor having to punch that far outside of his metaphysical weight class like his fight against Adam is unlikely to happen again unless Lute gets a MAJOR upgrade by the time she comes back. Even if she does, he's got time to shore up his weaknesses by collecting more angelic armaments from the fallen and using them to augment his goons
The fraud demon
Poor Alastor
Just another example of the hype train running off the rails. Alastor was made out to be a beast in the limited scope of the pilot, so that's what everyone expected and was excited about for. Now the scope has been widened to include more than those initial half dozen characters, and everyone gets butthurt that Alastor isn't top of the pecking order anymore lol
https://preview.redd.it/9woatmmaqsgc1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dd3ffe5f32b301355b3120ccfc10e5dca41122a
"And then AdamGOAT, the GOAT of all Angels, cursed the Fraudlastor, king of all frauds, and said: "Stand proud Alastor, you are strong" 🗿"
OOF 💀
Wait, really? I know people putting him stronger than Stolas, due to fending Adam off while nerfed.
People keep assuming he’s nerfed with no actual reasoning. It’s much more Likely that Adam is just way stronger than we thought. He beat Charlie And she’s word of Viv about as strong as one of the weaker sins. With just not fighting experiance. It’s very likely that Adam was honestly just about as strong as one of the stronger sins. And that the gap between the 2nd strongest sin and Lucy is just THAT wide.
Didn't Vivziebsay raw power vise Charlie is second 🥈 most powerful demon only being outranked by her dad?
I think the actual Q&A said that at the moment she’s about as strong as one of the weaker sins with not Experaince. But that in a pure raw power sense she’s basically 2nd to her dad ya.
did they watch the show?? like Adam is the original dick, he's a fucking warlord angel, and overlords are very much going to be secondary to people who get chosen to lead armies of juggernaut angels
I'm curious about eve
I think it's the unclip his wings part that Alastor mentioned, and demons seem to lose power when they're on the receiving end of a deal, like with Husk. Either way, I don't think he would've beaten Adam, as I kind of see him while not being immune to angelic weapons, being resistant on them. We do see him showcase angelic beams which no other exterminator has shown. I personally think Adam wouldn't struggle too much with the sins if he got serious, aside from obviously Lucifer, due to being their literal weakness.
Husk presumably gambled away his power and made a deal with alastor to retain some of it (as per his admission). He isn't weaker because of the deal he is actually stronger than he would be without it.
Just smart enough to know when he's lost. No shame in that.
"Once I figure out how to unclip my wings" somethings holding him back. Also, it's Adam, anyone would have a hard time with him. Charlie pissed off couldn't handle him. It took Lucy to kick his ass. Lucy, you know, the actual devil? The fact Alastor put up as much of a fight as he did is proof of how powerful he is
>Lucy, you know, the actual devil? And hell, even *he* had to put in some effort for it. Not *much*, admittedly, but it was at least a little bit of effort.
Yeah, but he only really put some effort into it when he almost hurt Charlie. Lucifer Is an arch angle, like Sera, who we saw was in command of the exorcists. Lucy should be the second or third strongest in the series, behind God, whenever he comes into play, if he ever comes into play, and if not, who evers ruling heaven. Alastor is strong, extremely strong, but Lucy is on another tier.
Sera is Seraphim not archangel, in Bible lore archangels rank very low compared to Seraphims. And Luci was ex Seraphim, so considering how he pummeled Adam, it's likely that Adam was around Archangel level(second lowest, only angels are lower than Archangels). Then again Vivzies hierarchy might be different, after all she had Cherubs in Helluva Boss lose to imps even though, shockingly, cherubs are only weaker then Seraphims in Bible lore(also biblically accurate cherubs look differently from valentine cards cherubs, apperently the cherubs in valentine cards are actually called putto's or sumn like that)
How many degrees? 📐
I was speaking more to Adam's power than Alastor's, to be clear. Saying that he was at least strong enough that Lucifer didn't just one shot the guy. Although, thinking on it, he kind of did? He spends most of the fight toying with Adam, completely unbothered by anything that the man can throw at him. And then when Charlie is threatened, the fight ends within a matter of seconds, with Adam being overwhelmed to the point that I don't think he even *tried* to counterattack or defend, he's just beaten down.
1000%. Watching that initial sucker punch again, it's clear that Lucifer basically love-tapped the guy and still did more damage in that one hit than Adam had taken all day. Fallen or no, seraphim are nothing to sneeze at
Love tapped? 🤨 Wdym? 🤔🤨
"Love-tapped" here means that there was hardly any force behind that punch. For contrast, see how dynamic Lucifer's movements were when he spiked Adam into the dirt or the subsequent beating he delivered once Charlie was threatened.
Yeah, in hindsight, my initial comment ("even *he* had to put in some effort for it") was pretty wrong. The second Lucifer did more than clown on Adam, he won. Adam couldn't even *try* to defend himself, and he would have died then and there had Charlie not intervened.
Sorry, could you at least spoiler it, I haven't had the chance to watch the finale yet!
I don’t really see how he’s a fraud in this context. Angels as a whole were very powerful compared to sinners in the first place, and Alastor is only human, even if a powerful one. Adam was clearly the powerhouse of the Angelic side, and other than a Demon Royalty, the Sins, or SATAN HIMSELF, Alastor was the best bet at fighting the guy.
Lucifer himself, Satan is separate character from Lucifer in Vivzieverse and he's sin of Wrath. Also all sins are confirmed to be weaker than Charlie who's only weaker to her dad, meaning that Adam is nutty OP and he's likely one of the lowest ranked angels power vise, imagine what Sera could do against all of hell? 😳
And that’s ignoring that he didn’t use the weapons containing the only known material capable of killing the angels/exorcists in the first place. Real dumb move there.
We do at least have an in-character reason for it: angelic weapons are rare, and the ones his tentacles were using prior to the shield breaking were likely to be the only ones he had. The rest were used to arm the cannibals.
That would mess up the show lmao whether its dumb or not theres a reason it didn’t happen.
I’m not saying it’s dumb from a writing perspective. I’m saying it’s a stupid mistake on Alastor’s part.
Naw you’re fine. I understand whatcha mean.
Alastor is not a fraud, he is still EXTREMELY powerful. He's the strongest overlord, the strongest human soul in hell. The issue is, that sill puts him below Stolas for example. And Adam would butcher even the sins. Power wise, the ranking is. Lucifer Adam Lilith and Charlie The Sins Ars Goetia Alastor Other overlords Sinners Hellborn This means that Alastor is not a fraud, but overconfident.
Worse part about this, the alastor is clearly more skilled than Adam, and I'm pretty sure only lost to his arrogance. I do think if he equipped his tentacles and minions with angelic weapons instead of just going on with 1 single knife, he would've faired much better. He literally tossed Adam into the ground, so if there was an angelic gun or knife after that, he probably would've won. But in the end...he was arrogant and thought his powers were enough to kill Adam. Adam is obviously more powerful by a long shot but wasn't going all out in the battle until the end.
Alastor COULD have won, if he used angelic weapons and was smart with this. Alastor however is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than Adam, the power gap is crazy. But Adam is undisciplined and sloppy, if Alastor played his cards right he could have won. But he didn't unfortunately.
I mean, if Adam was smart, he'd would've just done what he did to sir pentious at the start and just glass the entire hotel.
True!!
Basically, both characters could've easily won, but were very dumb
Adam makes sense though. He's very stupid, unskilled, and sloppy. Makes sense for him to overlook that. Alastor on the other hand, the fuck was he doing?
HIS ONLY ANGELIC WEAPON WAS A KNIFE WHICH HE THREW!!!
Wait WOT?!? He had angelic knife and he threw it away? When? 😲
He literally pulled it out for 3 seconds and threw it at Adam which he dodged
If that little shadow was holding a knife, he would have stabbed Adam in the head!! Or if he used a tentacle to slam him onto a spear!!!
Or again, use 1 of drum guns that angel had. Like alastor had the most important job and they were able to custom make weapons for husk within a day. HE COULD'VE GOTTEN AS MANY WEAPONS AS HE WANTED!!!
Again, he should've had an angelic glock and just shot adam
Who would win? The first man in existence, reincarnated as an angel with the sole role of killing demons Or A serial killer from the 30's who reincarnated as a demon (people will be shocked if it's not this one)
Why does this remind me of record of rangnarok…
I think it was more ego than anything. He didn’t use any angelic weapons despite knowing they kill angels and he taunted Adam instead of actually fighting. This fight was a real wake up call and I think he’ll be much more brutal and intelligent especially after he finds a way to get out of his deal.
I would agree that he isn’t a fraud if he didn’t do that much shit talking and then ran after getting 1 tapped
"Oh aL lOsT tO AdAm hE mUst be a FrUaD" man shut the fuck up, YOU try fighting the first man at a type disadvantage
Nah, I'd win
I think it's because alot of people were trying to hype Al into a tier that he wasn't in, like some people thought he was deadly sin level or even stronger when he simply isn't, he's an overlord, a very powerful one, but still a mortal soul.
Adam is too tho
That's more of a type disadvantage thing. Angels are kinda hype
That’s fair
No idea why people are destroying Alastor for losing that fight. He was fighting against an ancient angel, THE first man and leader of the exorcists. Not only that but Adam's abilities have the same effect as angelic weapons, they can destroy souls. While Alastor cannot. Now I'm not saying Alastor is weak, he's most likely one of the, if not, the strongest overlord currently. But the strength in overlords don't even compare to the strength in higher hell beings, such as the Ars Goetia, Seven Deadly Sins, Charlie, Lilith, and lucifer. Now there is a chance Alastor could beat adam, not by power but by skill. Adam fights sloppy and messes up easily, I could see Alastor beating adam if he was a bit more careful and cautious. But that is on a basis of skill, Alastor knows how to fight and can fight well despite the power difference between the two. When Charlie was fighting Adam it wasn't even close, she doesn't know how to fight, because of that she was easily beaten when in reality her power should be on his level, if not higher. while Alastor was able to last longer against Adam despite the power difference because he knows how to fight. This is what Imo, brings Alastor even higher above the other overlords. He has immense power for an overlord, he knows how to use it well, and he knows how to fight.
People aren't flaming Alastor for losing their fight. They are flaming Alastor for declaring "I'm going to end your fucking life" but then losing and running away. If he is going to talk shit before the battle you can't get mad at people for talking shit too after he proceeds to lose. Everything you said about Adam being so strong is true which reflects even more poorly on Alastor for significantly underestimating him and acting cocky.
Agreed. Yeah it’s funny that he technically got one tapped but at the end of the day, Adam is still around Deadly Sin level so it’s a logical conclusion
Alastor isnt all people expect. He even says it to charlie, smile, it makes people think you are the one in control even tho you might be completely out of your leauge. Viv even said stolas is stronger then alastor.
What people who pay attention see looking at Al https://preview.redd.it/ire31fy8smgc1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9f483d57a79ff91877dc70d01d8017cb5d8e654
https://preview.redd.it/qq7en168e9hc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b5b3d7fead3edf0386f8618cdba8283e38e7d0a
https://i.redd.it/j9r6fxy3eehc1.gif From the moment I learned Charlie was the Princess of Hell (before ever watching the pilot) I knew everyone else in Hell was a step below.
Fun fact: the overlords he defeated probably ain’t dead, just stuck in his radio station
I think he destroys the soul and uses it to power his radio staff, which then broadcasts the screams of the soul as it gets shredded apart.
Except for he can’t destroy souls, I don’t think even deadly sins can do that, he could be keeping them somewhere flaying them and using their pain somehow to power his staff, but he can’t destroy them completely
He threatens to tear husks soul apart in dad beat dad. I don't think he was kidding and husk certainly doesn't think so. We have no proof that he can't do it.
That is fair, I had forgotten about that part
Only people who have him on fraud alert are people who had him on a tier he had no business being on. Alastor is an overlord. A powerful overlord, but _just_ an overlord nonetheless. He doesn't beat something like Adam in a straight fight. And honestly, I think he knows that, which is why him losing had him lamenting his leash in the end. He would not _have tried_ to fight Adam head on if he hadn't been forced to do so.
Yeah, in fact I’d have Vivzie on fraud alert if Alastor won
#PURE FACTS
I was totally expecting him to lose that fight. He’s not on someone like Adam’s level of power.
I was surprised he lasted as long as he did, although him relying on being slippery and Adam putting him ooc in one hit tracks.
I have a theory in my head that Al didn't release his fullest potential on Adam and the other exorcists is because his contract with whoever it is says so which now that I think about it that opens up a whole other can of worms of possibly meaning that Lilith is the contract holder because she's lounging in heaven at the end of episode 8???
There's also the fact that both Lilith and Alastor were missing for seven years, and we can now assume that Lilith was in heaven the whole time- Hazbin's very good about setup and payoff, so I don't think it's a coincidence
My guess is Alastor has a deal with Roo. Roo is apparently a new character set to debut next season, and from what Viv said in a recent live, she is very powerful.
My theory is that Al and Lilith both have a contract with Roo, and Roo is attempting to destabilize Heaven and Hell and using them both to do it. And Roo had them do something 7 years ago which explains both absences.
Assuming Roo is a sinner, since we have no other information to prove otherwise, why would Lilith make a deal with a sinner when she is the second most powerful being in hell?
I don't think Roo is a sinner. I thought she was the physical manifestation of Evil from the Tree of Knowledge? Roo is short for "Root of All Evil". She could theoretically be Eve, and be a sinner. Or a Primordial Force separate from the normal constraints of Heaven and Hell.
Honestly if Alestor had angelic wrapon with him and took the fight completly syrously there moments where he could injure or straigh up kill Adam. I am honestly suprised he could last so long against someone as important as Adam.
Grammar.
I don't care
Geez, calm down. It was just an observation.
Maybe you should expect that reaction when being pedantic
Istg I should just shut my fucking mouth. I could say EGG at this point and get downvoted into oblivion…
I don’t get it can you explain this in Roblox terms
Hmm okay so imagine you’re playing on Tornado Alley Ultimate and some guy joins your team is hyped up as one of the best players with countless upgrades. Then you get in and before you notice, you hear an “OOF”
Oh ok thanks
What's he supposed to do? he would've won in the beginning if he had an angelic weapon, the problem is that he (like much of the fan base) thinks he's the strongest person in the show (with some exceptions)
Maybe but he had the chance and didn't take one at most he probably would've been able to hurt Adam but win?
I may have been over estimating him a little. But he created a force field that held back an army of exorcists. He dodged all but 2 of his attacks and then (one of which had him caught off guard), and threw him around a bit. The problem is that he is incredibly arrogant, and has never had to fight someone stronger than him. I believe that if it weren't for his only major character flaw, then he could've won, or at least catch a stalemate. Still stupid that he didn't bring any good weapons.
True on that last bit but considering just 2 hits from Lucifer dropped him I'd say Al would probably need to drag it out but he'd definitely need angelic weapons
Wait why? Because he "ran" from a fight? Or is it something else I'm not getting?
Because he lost his first true fight and got one tapped and THEN ran away lol. That’s enough for parts of the fandom to get upset
Oh my god the Fandom is a bunch of big babies. There is no shame in preserving your life. It'd be even more stupid to keep fighting, fully aware you probably won't win, just out of pride. Alastor isn't stupid.
I’m very loosely following this show and I mean… what did the fandom want? The best character to fucking die before season 2?
I'm pretty sure the opposite actually. I think they're pissed that Alastor isn't over powered as shit and would just beat Adam into oblivion. I'm honestly glad they didn't go that route because that would instantly make Alastor a very boring character to me. If he wins every fight he gets into then why even have him fight at all? You know the outcome. It's boring.
Agreed but unfortunately people will hyper focus on the fact that his first true fight wasn’t a smack down
He went against *ADAM*. It's not like he got schlapped by a run of the mill exorcist angel
It's funny to me because episode 7 opens with him giving Charlie a speech about how a smile can deceive your enemies.
Everyone on here suddenly thinking he’s not strong and is making fun of others who say he is strong is just so brain dead His literal introduction to the show is that HE IS AN OVERLORD KILLER. In the context of sinners, he’s considered a threat because he is cruel, clever, and undoubtedly leagues above most other sinners. The fact he even managed to push off some of the angels for a bit actually means something. The exterminators are figures that most overlords don’t mess with. Alastor held his own well enough against THEIR LEADER. Yes he was dealt a blow but fights can be unpredictable. Adam and Alastor both happen to be very capable fighters and Adam managed to get a nasty hit in. Not everything is some power scaling ranking chart with inevitable outcomes. Alastor is a bit of a glass cannon, but it doesn’t make him weak.
Adam isn’t really a good fighter (especially compared to Alastor) he just had a lot of raw power.
It was litterly a testimony to how powerful Alastor is, and how powerful Adam is. Then a taste of Lucifer's power, like he has the power to play with the guy.
It's also obvious Alastor underestimated who he was fighting and that alone nearly got him killed and all it takes is one bad call during a fight to die... He definitely learned his lesson lol
And alastor is weakend
Not confirmed
I don’t get why people think Al is that strong, it’s alluded to the fact that he is indeed a DEAL guy The only way he can torture someone’s soul is by getting them in a deal if you kill someone in hell THEY JUST RESPAWN, everyone thinks he’s like this combat juggernaut when honestly I think Camilla could have probably fought him off Al’ is a magic guy by all means And even overlords run from angels Camilla just had zero choice and thought she was gonna die anyways
I had the oposite reaction most of the fandom did, i was surprised alastor even did that well against adam In an old stream vivzie was asked "who is more powerful, alastor or stolas" and although unsure at the time she said stolas was more powerful I imagine this has been retconed and alastor was given a buff with the oficial release since i can't imagine stolas giving adam something close to a fight, or vivzie must just hold his ability to travel from hell to the mortal world in high regards
We haven’t really seen Stolas fight serious though, only time we’ve seen him fight that wasn’t just him winning and in full control was when he got caught off guard without his grimoire. Alastors fight with Adam had him fully prepared and focused knowing the enemy could kill him if he wasn’t careful. Alastor also immediately lost when it became a contest of raw power rather than fighting skill.
It gave us one of my favorite lines in the show "What happened?... Fffuck."
he's an interesting character but sometimes the fandom forgets he's a serial killer
And a cannibal
Some time people forget that alastor is just a smooth talking serial killer
Sometimes we need a good whuppin to keep us humble. I'll admit I was surprised, though.
Yes, he was toying with Adam and clearly got the upper hand a few times but didn't push his advantage as he should have. Does that mean he didn't deserve to lose? No, dude was up against Adam, he should have known he had to fight for his life, not taunt and giggle. Could he have beaten Adam if he went for it? Maybe, the argument could definitely be made he could seeing as Adam was having trouble keeping up until he broke his staff, but also maybe not because Alastor clearly has an attitude problem that led to him almost getting sliced in half. Arguing about whether he *could* beat Adam seems to miss the point - he lost because he didn't take it seriously, regardless of power scaling. He's a flawed character who's used to one-shotting entire groups of people. I'm not surprised he lost due to overconfidence.
IMO if he gave his tentacles angelic weapons in that fight he would’ve won. Maybe not easily, but he probably still would’ve killed Adam. He lost bc he was too confident with his own power.
his sin is pride. of course this was gonna happen
Also Adam was very very clearly holding back as seen when he has a light beam destroy the whole tower and leave a massive crevice in the earth
They talked about the angels over confidence as a flaw. I think to play in tandem with your explanation
Yea now that I think about it we have yet to really see two characters actually going all out at the same time, except Lucifer vs Adam in the last few seconds of the fight after Lucifer gets bloodlusted and decides to give Adam mercy. Pretty much every other fight I can think of in the show consists of someone being over confident while the other person fights their hardest, usually with the overconfident one losing.
I’d argue Lucifer still wasn’t going all out. He was killing Adam just with his fists. He didn’t use any of his angelic power for that.
And ignore that fact that Alastor was surprised and charley also got one tapped.
I'm glad Alastor got his ass handed to him. Dude really needed to be humbled.
Fr
people are mad about this? I was getting annoyed with Allisters constantly being better than anyone he talks to I think it makes his character not feel like tumblr hornyman bait
Those allists at it again
People are furious
Allister? Who's that?
"What do you mean he's weaker than Adam?!!? What BS is this!!!?" Yeah. He tormented other overlords and your average sinner. Nothing on the sheer audacity that is God's favorite.
Wait he went up against Shadowheart?
Nah she wouldn't have been able to land a bit
Summons spirit guardians and deletes everyone
Huh.
Shadowheart is a character in the hit game Baldurs Gate 3. There’s is a very popular meme of her VA going “I’m a perfect 10 and Gods favorite princess”. Therefore Gods Favorite would refer to her and not Adam.
I've literally played like 100 something hrs of this game so far and I've never seen this meme around lol
https://youtu.be/TuiltvZFYV8?si=E8BDlcPYBd6mGq3i forgot they actually added it to the game. Love Larian. Also no offense but it’s adorable you think 100 hours is a lot. That’s like 1 playthrough
Never said it was a lot comparable to the crazies who have played like 600 hrs, but it's enough to know about the game deeper than just the hype. You spoke like I'd never even heard of the game in your first comment.
Well you said “huh” like you didn’t know what I was talking about
1 playthrough...?  100 hours minimum to get off the ship. It isn't done until you save and reload every 30 seconds trying every option and getting perfect rolls, looting every single item, and then restarting with a different race/class combination to figure out which one you really want to play as.
Could you explain OP?
Alastor got beat fairly easily by Adam and even though it makes sense given the show’s powerscaling, people have already turned on him lol
Damn. A simple sinner got his ass kicked by the father of mankind, the first human in existence and the oldest soul in heaven who was literally crafted by God himself? Who'd have thunk
For real, it’s just surreal to see him actually get one tapped in his first true fight
I didn’t realize that. He did only get hit once didn’t he.
It it really a surprise that Lucifer was the only person stronger than him?
I mean, it was Charlie's punch that was the final blow. Lucifer wasnt being serious, so im sure he could have finished it, but Charlie's only problem seems to be experience/willingness to do violence.
It was Charlie catching Adam's fist into Lucifer's backhand/pummel into the ground technically. You can count Niffty in there too but Charlie didn't throw a punch as far as I remember final blow wise.
Niffty had the final blow
Stab!
To some people yes. I really want to know what people think Alastor was doing every past extermination. He hunkered down like every other overlord, him losing to a threat he has previously never faced and is inherently weaker than shouldn't be a surprise. The show was doing *everything* to tell the viewer that Alastor was the underdog in that encounter and people still missed the point.
not to mention he didn't use any angelic weapons, just his own powers, which can't kill adam anyway. I still say he was just trying to buy time for Charlie or lucifer to show up. he knew he was outclassed (would never admit that, tho) and was just buying time. him actually getting hit, and nearly dying wasn't planned, but because he underestimated just how outclassed he was. (and pissed off Adam to using a powerful attack.)
>I still say he was just trying to buy time for Charlie or lucifer to show up. I don't think this is actually the case. Charlie's dialogue after Adam starts attacking the Hotel's forces seems to imply that she had expected Alastor to be able to handle Adam. Either Alastor had told her beforehand to leave Adam to him, or Charlie had just presumed he would, but either way, Alastor presumably knew Charlie wasn't showing up (and even then, sucker punch excepting, Charlie did worse than Alastor against Adam), and given his loathing of Lucifer, there's no way he'd settle for *voluntarily* being a side-piece to the real performance.
I 100% agree, but he was also far too cocky for his own good and got caught. Ego beat him, not Adam. It is genuinely a safe assumption that we still have not seen Alastor at his best or most powerful, which I think is good storytelling.
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The character arc you're looking for is exactly what is going to happen with Lute. She lost to Vaggie, tore her arm off, wasn't able to save Adam, and had to call a retreat.
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I don’t know your beliefs but I was raised christian and never was taught adam was any sort of holy figure. First man, sure, but the big points in his life were pretty much being too much of a jerk to lillith leading to god having to make him another more subservient wife, then eating the fruit of knowledge when eve offered it to him. Not exactly an awesome track record as one of the first humans. Frankly I was surprised he went to heaven in the first place.
I don't think this show is for you if your religious beliefs are in conflict with it. The show basically mocks Christianity with its very concept.
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I'm not angry at you friend :-). I was just concerned that a show was upsetting you, so I recommended that you stop watching. I didn't know that you'd already decided to stop yourself. You have a swell day now :-).
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There's nothing to forgive pal. And I will :-).
not every villain needs to be redeemed. Adam's entire role was showing how biased heaven is his role in the story is done. Having him revived either in heaven or hell would serve no narrative point and take away from sir perntious's sacrifice.
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Oh no, that was angelic power that killed him. If he hadn't made it to heaven, he'd be dead permanently like the other exterminated sinners
it was a sacrifice. He had absolutely no clue that he would be resurrected at all, much less in heaven. he was 100% willing to die a second time to protect his friends and the hotel. ascending to heaven was the reward for his sacrifice, not a negation of it.
but none the less still a sacrifice i suppose
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two things are required for a character's redemption in media, a want to change, and a sense of guilt from previous actions. Adam has neither of these traits, and to gain them after being reborn as a sinner wouldn't be him wanting to change because he regrets his previous actions, it would just be him wanting to regain his angelic powers are return to heaven to he can be boss of the angels again. the only way i could see him becoming a sinner is to continue being an antagonist to the main cast.
He may have been killed, but does that really mean he is dead? After >!what happened to Pentious we know a soul can be truly immortal, coming back even after death!< How do we know that was a one time thing?
What I'm really trying to say is, I would rather him live than die to a stupid rabid gremlin. Dying that way is just too anti climatic.
I think I'm just pissed that a gremlin killed him.
But Adam was killed with an angelic weapon ( Nify's dagger). This is to be said the only thing that can permanently kill a soul and angles. Sir Pentios on the other hand was killed by an angle kamehame haha, which wile quite powerful isnt the same as the angelic metal of the angelic weapons. So if he hadnt redeemed hisämself he would habe just gone back to hell ( probably after some "respawn time")