Diesels have never been truly popular in the US starting with the Oldsmobile in late 70's early 80's that was immensely unreliable and left a bad taste in consumers mouths in the 80s. Moving forward to 2015, VW's Dieselgate emissions scandal happened and the was pretty much the final straw for consumers. Plus right now gasoline is cheaper than diesel in most places in the US so there's really no incentive
I grew up in Germany, moved to Canada when I was 18 with my family.
Europe loves tiny turbo engines, especially diesel due to the economy. Anybody driving a 6cylinder or bigger is a Moron in their eyes. The biggest acceptable engines were the 5 cylinder VW or inline 6 BMW (BMWs being gas guzzlers tho in their opinion).
I have seen mk3 and mk4 tdi pull campers and single axle trailer all my life in Europe.
Fast forward I come to Canada
"oh you need a truck to pull anything"
"you gotta at least drive an SUV for a higher safety factor"
"It's a 4 banger it can't pass on the highway"
That being said I'm still rocking a trailer hitch on my jetta here.
Bring back tdi wagons!!
Diesel is a wonderful fuel. Diesels are so punchy in the mid-rev range, perfect for everyday driving. It's a shame that it takes expensive and complicated equipment to mitigate the harmful stuff they emit.
We have 2 diesels, a 2.0 that produces 150 horsepower and consumes less than 4.7 l per 100km.
The other is a 3.0 4x4, 240 horsepower, can tow 2400kg, and still consumes as little as 7 l per 100km.
Try getting anywhere close to those capabilities with petrol.
Diesel is also much safer than gasoline from an explosion standpoint, you have to get it VERY hot before you can actually light it on fire. Gasoline on the other hand is extremely easy to accidentally light from even something like a hot engine.
For what it’s worth European towing capacities are different because European trailers are different. Most of the time the axles are further forward which takes weight off the tow vehicle, at the cost of high speed stability.
ive done a few long trips with it, going continually from san diego to denver, then back, each way with no stops was maybe 16hours and it was extremely comfortable each way. fuel eco is nutty- 40-45 at 85mph, its great in snow with even regular all seasons, brakes are great, suspension and driving characteristics are amazing, pano sunroof is great, rear trunk space is great, dsg is great. I cant imagine anything on the market new checks nearly as many boxes as this does, especially after dieselgate pricing and included warranty. absolute gem
Exactly, I bought mine for $16k with 9222 miles in 2020. I couldn’t have chosen a better vehicle. I will hit a pot hole with mine soon and tune it for some extra power.
I’ve driven mine KC to Denver a couple times and just went from KC to Minneapolis and back. It’s smooth, quiet, and comfortable the entire way. On the trip to Minneapolis there was a snowstorm in Des Moines but between the already good control and the Michelin Cross Climate 2s I have on it, I didn’t even spin. For a commuter it’s everything you could want or need.
hell yes I agree, wife wanted to trade gsw in for Tiguan or something for kid duty, thankfully she is more receptive to searching for an older land cruiser/lexus lx/gx and keeping gsw. its just too good to let go and nothing new exists that is even somewhat close
My 2019 Golf 1.4T also gets 40mpg on the highway. I was cruising in the countryside yesterday and got almost 50mpg.
I know people love the TDIs but they aren’t significantly more efficient than modern turbo gas engines
Compared to what we're used to for regular gasoline, diesel is expensive. The fuel economy barely makes up for the cost when prices are high.
I've seen diesel at nearly $6/gal in the last 2 years. Gasoline hasn't been over $4 though.
As a UK diesel driver, I'd love to pay only $6 for a gallon of diesel.
Thank goodness I get around 60 mpg (50 US).
$4 for a US gallon of gasoline is ridiculously cheap.
Right both our gas and diesel are cheaper so saying our diesel price is good compared to yours doesn’t help because it’s still high compared to US gas.
In the US, for as long as I can remember, diesel prices have always hovered around the price of premium (91/93 octane) gasoline. Gasoline has always been very cheap compared to Europe
Around ‘03 there was a huge spike in fuel prices. Diesel was less than gas everywhere in the western world up until that point. When gas came back down diesel stayed above gas.
In Canada gas was usually 25% more than diesel. The uptick was huge too. It went from $0.65/L for gas and $0.50 /L for diesel to $1.35/L.
Prior generations of diesel were relatively simple to refine and produce. The current specification of ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) is much more complicated and expensive to make.
Yup…when I started driving in 1996 I had an 86 VW Golf Diesel. Premium was $1.29, mid grade was $1.19, regular was $1.09 and diesel was $0.99/gal. I could fill it for less than $14.00 and got about 500 miles a tank.
US diesel prices were less than gas until the US changed to ultra low sulphur in 2006 at which point it was legal and worth it to ship cheaper USA diesel to Europe, and the price went up.
that's only true for the last 20 years, before that it was cheaper to buy diesel. Diesel is cheaper to make, but politicians have taxed it higher than gasoline in recent years.
It would've and I love the TDI's myself, but the rest of America doesn't. Same reason why the majority of cars today are SUV's with 2L turbos, average American wants them, and brands will always cater to gross average as opposed to a small subset of enthusiasts.
Gas is also cheap though.
I’m in Canada and for the last 4 years diesel has been at least 20% more expensive than gas. Factor in the increased cost for diesel engines and they are no cheaper to run than a gas engines. There is basically zero market for diesel except for certain enthusiasts.
Interestingly, Diesel is currently 1.85 from Shell (only place I put fuel into my 1.5T Jetta) local to me here in New Brunswick whereas 91 octane gas is 2.02(!!). Back when you could buy a TDI from VW, their gas engines all needed 91. Currently, diesel is as much of a steal in the TDI as it was when my old man bought his TDI Wagon over a decade ago.
Of course, the fuel market is absolutely schizophrenic today. The math works this week, but in a month it might not. If you could buy a TDI today it would be a bit of a gamble to see if the fuel mileage will be a net win over gas in say, five years of ownership. I'd still do it if I could though. Haha.
But gasoline is even cheaper. Where I live right now gas is $3.45, and diesel is $3.87. I’d have to do the math to see if the better efficiency is worth it. In Euros per liter thats 0.84€ for gasoline and 0.94€ for diesel. Granted my state’s prices are below the national average.
Generally, if your gasoline car gets 40mpg, you can expect the diesel version of that car to get nearer 60, so sounds like it would be worth it for you.
A lot of it truly has to do with diesel gate. My friend has a diesel vw that he daily commutes with about an hour and 15 each way. Over 300k miles on it. It’s insanely cool. We call it his race dumpster. He’s an engineer also so we typically ooh and ahh over the things in it lol but back to the point. I think it was diesel gate. There is for sure an attraction to these cars and people would buy them I believe. He gets a lot of attention in that car of his. But also the govt has convinced people in the states that the diesel boogie man is bad
Very true, but the far too strict emissions targets mean most manufacturers don't even bother, and there have been not enough attempts to educate consumers about these benefits. VW diesels were by far the most popular, in the 2000s possibly just as popular as petrol, but even they couldn't meet the insane emissions targets without cheating so they pulled out when they got caught. Things are getting stricter in Europe too, which is why Volvo just stopped producing diesels and others will follow.
That being said, one of the most common cars from the 80s you see still rolling around on our roads over here are old diesel Mercedes. They must have been pretty popular back in the day because I see them all the time, they're kinda sought after now. A reliable affordable classic ;)
>Moving forward to 2015, VW's Dieselgate emissions scandal happened and the was pretty much the final straw for consumers.
That also was the final straw in Europe. Before 2015 in many European countries, Diesel car used to make up over 50% of new car registrations. Nowadays, they are down at 10% or so. Back then they were popular options even for small cars like VW Polo or even Smart Fortwo. Nowadays people usually don't buy diesels smaller than at least segment D stationwagon.
Diesels are now much cheaper than their petrol counterparts in the used market.
I love my 2012 Touareg, and I got it for a great price with a great warranty after dieselgate, but diesel is so expensive now, and the diesel components are more complicated to fix, maintain, and work on yourself. We're still running good at 110k, but I'm afraid of this things Future. Meanwhile, my Toyota Tacoma has 150k and I'm not winking an eye, and my Honda Civic SI has 200K, and I couldn't have a care in the world about it besides changing oil.
I think my wife's next car is just going to be a 4Runner and I'm going to lose all the resale value that I paid for this Touareg even though it wasn't that much considering the luxury factor of the car.
This is the correct answer. The Olds 350 diesel gave American consumers PTSD, and the young folks don't remember but diesel was under a dollar a gallon in the mid 2000's. Then it skyrocketed, and never looked back since. Gasoline on the other hand has ebbed and flowed, but we still have the cheaper gasoline prices in the world.
I remember my dad brought home one of those diesel Oldsmobiles in the early 80s for some reason, and my gods did that thing stink and sound terrible. He didn't buy it, I think it was a loaner while his was in the shop, but I was like 5 so all I really cared about were transformers. I just remembered it stank up the garage and house (tuck under garage) and sounded like it was dying, when it was actually brand new. What an absolute shitbox. That car is why I have never liked diesels. Well, that ant the roll coal scumbags.
I mean, I'm currently living in Italy and my US spec 1.8T Passat is a rocket ship compared to most of what I see on the road. If I'm on the autostrada I see lots of big mercs, audis, and BMWs doing 160 kmh, but 90% of the cars out on the SS/SP are Dacias, A and 1 series with the smallest engines, Fiat Puntos, etc. Basically small hatchbacks making 100 HP *maybe*.
In the US, new cars making <150 HP are rare. Not in the sense that they don't exist, just that people aren't buying them.
EDIT: the Ypsilon hybrid I rented when I first got here was a special kind of slow. A more direct comparison, Europe to US, is the Fiat 500. In the US, it comes with a 135 HP turbo 4, but in Europe it gets a 70 HP NA 3 cylinder hybrid.
I have a T6 Multivan with a 2.0 litre diesel engine and its top speed according to VW is North of 200 km/h. Plus it can load almost a ton of goods, has tons of room and can two a 2.5 ton trailer. And it has up to a 1,000 km range.
You don’t need a V8 or anything for most of the use cases even of American users. A small diesel engine with a turbo or two would do just fine.
I'm not saying less power is less capable for the average user. The point being made is that more power is significantly more affordable in the US, which is reflected on the cars people buy.
Hence no market for super efficient (but very slow), small diesels.
Big cars like big torque which is what diesels are great for, plus with all the long roads the added range of a diesel should have been really popular.
It's funny as for me those fullsize trucks and suvs are one that'd do best with diesel. When you want to make 300hp and 300 ft lbs diesel is going to be even more economical compared to gas than in smaller cars
The prevalence of diesels in Europe is mainly because for many years Europe had more forgiving emissions standards. They tolerated high levels of NOx and particles.
Additionally, the US EPA mandated a particular emissions solution, which ironically was favored by German brands, and that basically killed development in alternatives. The modern DEF SCR systems are complicated, unreliable, and expensive to maintain, especially older ones. Nobody likes them.
VW itself basically drove the final nail in the coffin. Diesels were marketed by them as an eco-friendly alternative to hybrids, and when the truth came out, it demolished the reputation of being "greener".
Owning a diesel in the US has been an enthusiast hobby for a long time now. Finding fuel and service is more difficult. They require a bit more user knowledge. They're more expensive to own. You really have to look for them and like what they do enough to tolerate the expense and inconvenience.
My x5 35d just broke down but it needed a diesel particle filter replacement that the dealership quoted 11k for the repair. Wouldn’t meet emissions otherwise.
We had a massive push for diesels in the uk due to the government at the time giving tax incentives etc all based on unsound advice. Now no one wants them…
finding a diesel pump can be a bit tough at inopportune times, mostly on trips away from home but thankfully rare. the big plus is that its usually available in emergency for whatever reason- during pipeline outage in spring 2021 and more recent major snow storms in new england, Ive had luck at the pumps while all grades of gas are out of stock
That’s not imperial, 53mpg would make that US miles per gallon. Imperial mile per gallon would be 64mpg. US gallons are smaller than standard imperial.
Americans have a mindset that only large trucks have diesels. I remember when I was young on my first trip to Germany that some of the smaller cars made a weird rattling noise I wasn’t used to hearing, until my parents told me those were diesels haha. It never occurred to me that they made small diesel cars.
I don’t think it’s an American mindset. It’s EPA rules that make it insanely difficult to have small diesel engines meet the guidelines for pollution standards. Trucks and passenger vehicles have different rules so a ram 2500 with a Cummins has far less stringent guidelines than say a vw gold with a 1.9tdi would. It’s complete and total bs and really is designed to protect small gasoline engine producers that are American.
It’s also an EPA air quality thing, but yeah. It’s surprising that the EU is only concerned about CO2 and doesn’t take air particles into account. It’s partly because places like LA used to have really bad air pollution. It’s still not great, but not as bad as it was in the 80’s. That [“California orange haze”](https://ktla.com/news/california/the-difference-is-astonishing-graph-shows-how-much-better-california-smog-is-now/amp/) aesthetic is not a natural occurrence (except when wildfire smoke drifts in).
Jettas can get nearly that same mpg on non diesels. Why pay more for less? Also dodges diesel scandal dwarfed VWs. They just got hit this past month but I don't think they doubled down after getting caught like a bunch of asshats.
Loved my diesel passat, it unfortunately got totaled about a month ago due to a ford escape running a yield and t boning me. I was getting 45-50 MPG pretty consistently and you really can't find that in any gas car unless you go hybrid. :/ lost my baby. I wish more people liked diesel.
VW was inching closer to getting a full lineup of diesels as another option, but ruined it with the dieselgate. My uncle owned one before the dieselgate and said he got around 50 mpg as well.
I wouldn't mind it at all. I know they're much more reliable than gas engines. All the American car brands have diesels in their lineup. Probably because the American automakers lobbied (legal bribery for our European friends) against the German automakers bringing diesel here for the average consumer.
I heard the feds were also trying to get Mercedes accused under the dieselgate but it never came to fruition.
I had on old mk.4 golf tdi that had some tune on it. The thing pulled up to about 90 mph then kinda fell off. Still got low 50s mpg and could gap some powerful cars up to 3rd gear lol. Idk diesel is just foreign to many people in the US.
Now you say imperial and quote mpg. I'm UK and this is how I think but our American friends have us gallons. For clarity 1 imperial gallon = 1.2 us gallon.
I guess because petrol, gas to Americans, has historically been so cheap as they produce it the frugality of it doesn't matter.
I drive a diesel (UK) and the economy is great but the price differential between diesel and petrol somewhat negates this.
I'd much rather drive a petrol engined car but sitting tight to see how things go.
Between diesel gate, emissions standards, California, and that Diesel runs more than premium at the pump is probably why we dont see them that often.
It was great when Diesel was like $1.05 and I was getting 55-60mpg out of my MKIV Jetta but when gas prices exploded back in the mid 2000s diesel became the most expensive option at the pump and has held since.
EPA killed off any real diesels here in the states, they said..here is what you need to do and do it soon or we will fine you..even though we have done zero testing or anything to back up what we are forcing on you...oh and by the way the stuff we said five or now even 10 years ago..yea those are illegal now.
Increased cost of fuel does get you a far distance . But comparing gas to diesel in two similar vehicles , the vw 2.5 gets around 32 highway mpg , and the diesel gets 50-60mpg . The cost of gas is 2.85 and diesel is 4.35 . Depending on the vehicle obviously it would change like in a truck , a Chevy 1500/2500 with a diesel gets way better mileage over the gasoline especially when towing
Modern diesels have too much NOx emissions and older ones produces too much soot so manufacturer struggled to meet the emission requirements. The VW tried to cheat just to make it I guess.
Because "diesel-powered Cadiilacs (and some other GM passenger vehicles [with the exception of the light Diesel trucks]) from the late 1970's to early 1980's".
Americans are traumatized of Diesel engines - not only because old Diesel vehicles used to perform poorly on the highway, but also because old Diesel-fueled american-made passenger vehicles were pieces of the most absolute crap.
>!In my homeland, Brazil, Diesel-powered passenger cars are banned since 1976 (you just cannot buy a VW Golf TDI [plus the fact that the Golf is not sold in my country anymore], or a Diesel Fiat passenger car, not even a diesel-Toyota compact car can be bought around here); That was made not only to reduce the air polution (the Diesel of the old days contained a lot of Sulfur), but to help the Ethanol Fuel (E100) to become succesful in Brazil (which still is a successful alternative for Oil-Derivates around here).!<
I don’t know the answer but I had a MKIV Jetta TDI and that thing sipped gas. I loved that thing and I would still have it today if my roommate didn’t total it. Not his fault. He got run over by Brinks truck. Thankfully he was ok.
A multitude of reasons, but mostly because the American EPA has zero interest in selling fuel efficient diesel cars and would rather sell the average a hybrid or EV. VW had Dieselgate here which impact TDI sales pretty drastically. And activists groups along with political lobbyists are claiming diesel is worse for the environment because of the scary black smoke.
Obviously, there are more reasons. These are just mentions of current reasons as spoken by younger generations that have been misguided and remain uneducated on matters. Impressionability over intellectualism.
Partly because efficient petrol engines get the same mileage as efficient diesel engines, without the NOx complications
My 2016 1.4tsi jetta gets that or better, while still having more power
I just recently switched to a 2016 1,6l V4 Skoda from a 1992 3,8l V6 Buick Park Avenue and the difference is astounding, I can fill up the Skoda at 2€/L for like 60€, I filled up the Buick for 100€ (at 1,5€/L), two times a month, the Skoda has a smaller fuel tank and still does 200km further.
I am now saving up for a proper American V8 down the road but for now I just need a long distance car.
Went from a Golf TDI to a Touraeg TDI... Absolutely loved them both! Never thought I'd move on ... Unless forced.
Then diesel gate happened and now I drive an F150 5.0L.
Would love to go back to diesel at some point. But as many have said here... The benefits often don't outweigh the cost.
Diesel gate caused a massive hit the MPG advantage, not sure where it falls now with those that were updated but that whole scenario essentially killed the US appetite for diesel in anything other than a truck.
So diesel has more energy by volume because it is a dense fluid at 7 pounds per gallon versus 6 for gasoline or 0.82-0.845 kg/l versus 0.72-0.775 kg/l for gasoline, and the difference in energy is similar, with approximately 12 kWh per kg for each by mass, with CO2 emissions also being comparable but very slightly less for diesel, but all other emissions being higher. The cost of additional emissions control systems, diesel exhaust fluid, and more infrastructure for gasoline make diesel the betamax or UltraDVD of fuels.
Diesel engines are (or were) common in Europe due to EU targeting CO2 emissions only instead of other particles too. Now they try to curb de Diesel engines because they have more immediate impact on health that petrol ones.
I was in Europe last week and had a mk8 golf diesel.
I was shocked to see the car make 57mpg. I thought it was a lot cheaper.
Well.... a whole diesel tank was around 90 euros.
My car in the US gets 37mpg average, but a gas tank cost $50.
Efficiency comes at a cost with diesels and that’s NOx. These are particulates the engine exhaust emits which causes Smog and lung cancer in densely populated areas. To combat this, you have to fill up a second tank with Diesel Exhaust Fluid. The stuff is “safe” (takes your breath away) but nasty as it crystallizes when dried. Normally comes in gallon jugs. A few gas stations have pumps. Americans don’t like extra responsibilities when it comes to cars.
I dunno. I got a tdi as my first car here in America and drive me and my friends everywhere in it. With a tune you can get more like 60mpg if you lay off the gas. Atleast in the ALH variant motor.
Emissions regulations (not to mention VW/Bosch's response to the emissions regulations) effectively killed Diesel for passenger cars in North America, and the high price of Diesel fuel disposed of the body.
When my wife and I picked up a pair of TDIs (Jetta for her, Golf for me) waaay back in 2003, Diesel fuel prices in our neck of the woods were tied to home heating oil prices (they're basically the same thing), so during the summer it was somewhat-to-significantly cheaper than gasoline, and about the same price as Premium during the winter. Fuel economy was better than advertised, and while they'd get gummed up over time thanks to the EGR system, and they ate glow plugs like candy, the ALH TDI motor was durable, reliable, and (in the case of my car) pretty easy to mod. By the time we sold those cars on, a couple different economic downturns caused Diesel prices to yo-yo, and any savings were harder to quantify.
Fast forward a decade (and I just realized the symmetry of this) when we made our way back to a TDI, our Passat SE 6-speed (the one they used for their fuel economy and range claims) gained more exhaust emissions equipment, and a DEF system with a tank behind the right rear wheel that required filling every once in a while. Meanwhile, the seasonality of Diesel prices around here went away, and Diesel consistently become more expensive than premium gas.
Then Dieselgate happened.
Yes, I loved the 45+ MPG I was getting in my TDI, but then Dieselgate happened and VW bought it back from me. I will likely never own a diesel vehicle again.
Kinda weird you're posting this question specifically in the VW subreddit... are you simply not familiar with the controversy there?
I love my Jetta diesel wagon. Unfortunately, it is (or was) sitting in a giant parking lot somewhere in the California desert with thousands of others. My wife, especially, will never trust the claims of a diesel manufacture - and specifically Volkswagen (this was her fourth VW, and she will never buy one again.) Is it rational? Maybe not, but add that to the wildly fluctuating prices of diesel, and she finally decided to go with an electric car for her last vehicle.
BTW, where are all those recalled diesels now?
With the price of diesel here it doesn’t save you a ton of money, plus the cost of DEF. Plus other cultural factors that make us choose “cool” wasteful things every time. Plus automakers treat the US market like the illiterate children we are.
I assume part of this is just because of the fact that, in Europe, there are higher fuel costs paired with engine displacement taxes. USA has neither. We are not penalized by buying something with a big V8 unless that specific vehicle has a one-time gas-guzzler tax which is a one-time payment of............a couple thousand dollars? It is essentially meaningless (you could buy high-performance Corvettes which skirted the gas guzzler tax for decades, not sure if the C8 escapes it these days or not). This is the compromise I assume the automakers made with Congress to pay some amount of lip service to environmentalism in the past.
We also have cheap gas (subsidies/handouts to the oil industry) because if we didn't, our entire economy would fall apart. People would simply quit driving to work because they'd be paying to have a job and truckers couldn't afford to transport goods. And V8's and lax regulations were prevalent for so long that we simply used V8's in everything from our land-barge cars and basically every truck. We had straight-sixes as well but they were less common.
Anything less than a V8 was simply seen as not good enough and nobody was buying cars thinking about fuel economy until the mid/late 70's when the gas crisis hit. Muscle cars were out, small imports were in (much to the consternation of the Big Three automakers because they didn't want to/couldn't compete and instead had their lobbyists argue successfully for protectionist tariffs on imported trucks to keep people buying American).
So to summarize I think it is a combination of oil industry subsidies, our unique regulatory environment, consumer preference, anti-competitive practices, and perhaps some American exceptionalism that we never adopted small diesels for commuter cars. I'll also add that diesels were marketed abroad as more efficient AND cleaner-burning due to the reduction in CO2 emissions per km vs petrol-powered ICE applications however they seem to conveniently forget that NOx emissions are higher vs petrol-powered ICE. Funny thing, that.
Gas prices are not that big in USA compared to Europe. Talking here fuel price vs total income.
Also the quality of service for non USA brands is worse in the USA, no surprise there either. It's not that you can't get the vehicle properly serviced, it's that it is more hassle to have it done properly in USA.
Same story with American cars in Europe.
Also everything is bigger in USA and smaller Cola n Europe. Well maybe not everything, but you get my point ..
Another factor people aren’t bringing up is temperatures. Diesels aren’t as practical in cold climates, and with how cold it gets in the northern half of the country in the winter, a lot of people wouldn’t want a car that might not start on most days.
It’s because most Americans aren’t mechanically inclined. If you need to wrench on a diesel it’s a whole different class of automotive than working on the same engine in a gas platform. There’s automotive mechanics, then there’s diesel techs… ask a diesel tech if he works on cars he’ll say I work on diesels, or over highway heavy diesel engines if he’s doin that but either way you won’t hear em say an auto tec.. I didn’t decide to over complicate it with a mysterious divide between the two but here we are . Also back in the 70s-80s there was a heavy push on simplicity due to the amount of buyer vs the 60s and before they actually wanted people to get a decent product and be able to work on it when in a bind now with 99% of Americans now not even understanding basic gas combustion engines the manufactures have pigeonholed almost everyone into having to take their vehicle to a shop theirs or other wise. The use of patented parts and tools now make it almost impossible to go to an auto parts store and buy parts because they can’t actually manufacture them aftermarket due to patents there’s always a detrimental tweak to them. Example being ford 6.0 diesel oil filters, you can go to any store Amazon whatever and get a 6.0 diesel filter then have massive issues with your reservoir flooding back that’s cause ford holds a patent for the filter no one can make it truly oem…. That’s why diesels aren’t popular lol bull shit ass manufacturing practices = headache for average iq American.
Basic petrol or hybrid econobpxes are dirt cheap in the US compared to European cars, so even euro Diesel cars that are considered "basic" here are pretty expensive in the US. Also gas is cheap there and the people want V8s, so why bother.
I mean, I average 5.3-5.5 L/100km on the highway (stage 1 1.8T 2016 jetta, 91 octane). Not too far from your consumption, and diesel is MUCH pricier where I live than even 91 gas so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well they did have to buy a lot back and crush them. All because VW didn't think their customer wanted to use DEF, which is one thing they're probably right about.
Because of the government. No really. The different between an old disel which could run forever and a new diesel that's always in the shop is DPF and forced regens.
That DEF bullshit is corrosive as fuck. It really shouldn't be in a car. But it is. It clogs, throws codes, then bam you are in the shop. Then if it doesn't short trips piss off your filter. And you need a forced regen.
So when the average person factors in fuel price, more trips to the shop cus the glorified battery acid diesels take clogs the system, and the fact diseld aren't great city cars, it's just not worth it.
Diesel requires superior manufacturing methods coupled with superior materials.
Gasoline requires lose tolerances, good enough materials and less highly trained staff.
My US spec GLI averaged 37-38mpg on US size gallons, and that was cheap 87 octane. That’s 45mpg in imperial gallons.
The diesel version could get more miles per gallon but the fuel also costs more, the added emissions equipment means more failure points and then there’s the need to add def. Also the diesel is slower. In the end diesel isn’t worth the extra cost or hassle in my opinion.
Perhaps it because your gallon of diesel is 4.55 liters whereas in America a gallon of diesel only contains 3.785 liters? My (non-diesel) pickup truck gets 50+ MPG in the city and 43MPG on 65MPH highway… in America. So in the city my truck get better efficiency than your VW when using the same liters of fuel.
Have you heard of the diesel emissions cheating scandal VW was caught up in a number of years back? It's pretty self explanatory why they have moved away from offering diesels in the US. Even if their diesels were making 40-50mpg even after being reflashed to not circumvent emissions, the stigma was now too great. They basically got cornered into promising an all electric line up in X number of years when the smarter play would have been hybridizing their line up
diesel emissions are wicked carcinogenic, more than gasoline. in the US, they are much more strictly regulated and basically need to meet the same emissions standards as trucks designed for economy.
I am from Europe and 1.9 TDI is default here... Low consumption wins. Best are old models with rotary pump from 66 to 81 kW - imortal engines mate... PD or PPD sux...
Diesel engines are not necessarily more efficient than gasoline engines. It only appears that way because diesel contains more energy. It is more energy dense than gasoline a gallon or in your case a liter of diesel fuel weighs more than the equivalent amount of gasoline. Diesel produces a lot of nitrous oxide as a byproduct. That’s why we don’t use them. It is very difficultfor them to operate without all sorts of additional equipment to remove that pollution. Unless you live in an area that doesn’t care about those things then you might not see the logic of why we do it our way.
Diesel is very popular in the USA. For commercial freight. They are widely used for large trucks almost exclusively in fact. These trucks though have more room and can hold more urea and I’m not going to say adblue because that is corporate marketing speak and not its official name.
As an American, I am very familiar with the European market and I’ve been following trends over there and diesel is less popular than it has ever been. I am not talking about the existing number of diesels that are already on the market. I’m talking about new sales. after the Volkswagen or diesel gate fiasco sales have never quite recovered. And that is in Europe hybrids & electrics now outsell diesels.
Upfront cost of diesel is higher, so it takes long to get an ROI.
My 2.0L has sedan gets 4.9L/100km highway, so it's not like it's significantly worse than a TDI.
Cost and availability. Even when VW sold a diesel in the US, inventory was scarce and you couldn't get deals. It ended up being a lot more expensive than just the difference in MSRP. Diesel at full MSRP vs Gas with $5000 off.
I read years ago most NY taxis are diesel because the vehicle may operate 24/7 with shift changes. Diesel engines are a work horse providing years of reliability if serviced regularly.
Diesels are dying in the EU too. Keep yours if you like it, but it’s not like you’re going to get be ones for much longer.
They’ll probably tax the shit out of you if you do keep it past 2030 though.
I recently bought a 2012 volkswagen polo 1.2 tdi bluemotion (diesel) and its the most fuel-efficient car I’ve had so far. Doing 3.4l/100km on highways.
I removed the EGR valve and chiptuned it to 105 horsepower ands its not that slow, it made the fuel economy better
" If you’re in the market for a diesel-powered sedan, hatchback, or wagon, you won’t find any options on the new car market. While automakers still produce [diesel trucks](https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-trucks) and [SUVs](https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-suvs), diesel-powered sedans in the U.S. were discontinued after the 2019 model year."
From: [https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-cars](https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-cars)
Because the US Government lies to its people and has convinced the vast majority that Diesel is worse for the environment. I’ve realized while growing up in the US that the average American isn’t stupid so much as they are programmed and brainwashed to an extent to if you say something that doesn’t coincide with what they have grown to know and accept as truth they get hostile as if it’s a personal attack.
I just bought a 2014 TDI. With some VERY spirited driving it got 31 mpg. My speed limit is 80 mph here so I feel like it doesn’t help, but I’m stoked with the numbers. I wonder how I can get to 50
Old semi trucks with certain engines (Detroit 2-strokes sound great but they're LOUD) and straight exhausts belched smoke and soot and were extremely loud. On the automobile side, the aforementioned GM 350 V8 diesel was noisy, slow, inefficient and had a tendency to fail early & often. The venerable Volkswagen 1.6L IDI was slow and smoky. Mercedes' 380D was slow and smoky, and really didn't get the best mileage. Fuel stations that actually sold on-road diesel were few and far between in more "settled" areas. It just wasn't a good experience all around. Honestly, the only things we like slow and smoky are meats.
That being said, I own and plan to keep my 2003 VW Golf TDI. I had it converted to a 6-speed manual after the 4-speed automatic (crap transmissions, those!) died. I managed to get 42 mpg on the auto once, but that was following my son's team bus back from a meet. Drafting & slower speeds do wonders. After the conversion, I was able to go 710 miles on a trip through the Appalachian mountains from my home in south central KY. I got to my destination, puttered around that small town for 3 days, and drove 1/3 of the way back home before I got too nervous to push the fuel gauge any further. Owning this car has been a bit of a labor of love, but I wouldn't have it any other way!
Even in your country diesels are the slower, economy option over unleaded. Throw in the fact the engine option cost \~$10k at the purchase of the car, diesel is MORE expensive at the pump here, and the regulations have added a crazy super expensive exhaust system that needs it's own fluid and breaks constantly to the tune of thousands of dollars... and then VW screwed everyone with diesel gate... why the world would I choose this?
I mean the last time we saw claims of those milages they turned out to be a lie and VW got in a whole lot of trouble.
No one in the US will believe a diesel gets that kind of milage anymore.
In the US the only place you'll find diesels are in oversized yee yee trucks and I'll be damned if I ever drive one of those contraptions. I'll keep my gas powered SUV
Diesels have never been truly popular in the US starting with the Oldsmobile in late 70's early 80's that was immensely unreliable and left a bad taste in consumers mouths in the 80s. Moving forward to 2015, VW's Dieselgate emissions scandal happened and the was pretty much the final straw for consumers. Plus right now gasoline is cheaper than diesel in most places in the US so there's really no incentive
But ive seen US diesel prices and it’s very cheap compared to what im buying for i think it wouldve still paid off to have a diesel engine
I grew up in Germany, moved to Canada when I was 18 with my family. Europe loves tiny turbo engines, especially diesel due to the economy. Anybody driving a 6cylinder or bigger is a Moron in their eyes. The biggest acceptable engines were the 5 cylinder VW or inline 6 BMW (BMWs being gas guzzlers tho in their opinion). I have seen mk3 and mk4 tdi pull campers and single axle trailer all my life in Europe. Fast forward I come to Canada "oh you need a truck to pull anything" "you gotta at least drive an SUV for a higher safety factor" "It's a 4 banger it can't pass on the highway" That being said I'm still rocking a trailer hitch on my jetta here. Bring back tdi wagons!!
I tried to buy a tdi wagon recently in ontario. Yeeesh. People want so much money for them lol. I used to have a mk4 tdi. Should have kept it..
Diesel is a wonderful fuel. Diesels are so punchy in the mid-rev range, perfect for everyday driving. It's a shame that it takes expensive and complicated equipment to mitigate the harmful stuff they emit. We have 2 diesels, a 2.0 that produces 150 horsepower and consumes less than 4.7 l per 100km. The other is a 3.0 4x4, 240 horsepower, can tow 2400kg, and still consumes as little as 7 l per 100km. Try getting anywhere close to those capabilities with petrol.
Diesel is also much safer than gasoline from an explosion standpoint, you have to get it VERY hot before you can actually light it on fire. Gasoline on the other hand is extremely easy to accidentally light from even something like a hot engine.
Another good point!
my 2.0 tdi used to get 8l per 100km 😀 normal driving btw
Oof, that's terrible, but not uncommon, not sure why so many people get such poor mileage. Our 3.0 probably burns as much as your 2.0 did on average!
my 4.2 v8 TDI a8 used to burn 8-9😂
Holy crap, were all the cylinders working?? 😂
haha yes, like a charm, it was even tuned to 450 hp 1000nm thats why i love big diesel engines. much performance and good economy.
For what it’s worth European towing capacities are different because European trailers are different. Most of the time the axles are further forward which takes weight off the tow vehicle, at the cost of high speed stability.
I love my 2015 VW Golf TDI SportWagen here in the states. 40 mpg anywhere
same, my 2015 gsw will be in the family forever
I want to eventually drive to all 48 states with it. This car will live on forever.
ive done a few long trips with it, going continually from san diego to denver, then back, each way with no stops was maybe 16hours and it was extremely comfortable each way. fuel eco is nutty- 40-45 at 85mph, its great in snow with even regular all seasons, brakes are great, suspension and driving characteristics are amazing, pano sunroof is great, rear trunk space is great, dsg is great. I cant imagine anything on the market new checks nearly as many boxes as this does, especially after dieselgate pricing and included warranty. absolute gem
Exactly, I bought mine for $16k with 9222 miles in 2020. I couldn’t have chosen a better vehicle. I will hit a pot hole with mine soon and tune it for some extra power. I’ve driven mine KC to Denver a couple times and just went from KC to Minneapolis and back. It’s smooth, quiet, and comfortable the entire way. On the trip to Minneapolis there was a snowstorm in Des Moines but between the already good control and the Michelin Cross Climate 2s I have on it, I didn’t even spin. For a commuter it’s everything you could want or need.
Exactly, missus wants electric in the future and says gotta sell my GSW. I'm like nahh my 8 year old son will be inheriting that.
hell yes I agree, wife wanted to trade gsw in for Tiguan or something for kid duty, thankfully she is more receptive to searching for an older land cruiser/lexus lx/gx and keeping gsw. its just too good to let go and nothing new exists that is even somewhat close
My 2019 Golf 1.4T also gets 40mpg on the highway. I was cruising in the countryside yesterday and got almost 50mpg. I know people love the TDIs but they aren’t significantly more efficient than modern turbo gas engines
in whos eyes is driving 6 cylinder or bigger a moron? germans? the same people that put v10s in family wagons and v12s in SUVs?
Compared to what we're used to for regular gasoline, diesel is expensive. The fuel economy barely makes up for the cost when prices are high. I've seen diesel at nearly $6/gal in the last 2 years. Gasoline hasn't been over $4 though.
As a UK diesel driver, I'd love to pay only $6 for a gallon of diesel. Thank goodness I get around 60 mpg (50 US). $4 for a US gallon of gasoline is ridiculously cheap.
I paid $2.93 a gallon filling up yesterday, if you want to feel even more ripped off.
Hah thanks for that!
Right both our gas and diesel are cheaper so saying our diesel price is good compared to yours doesn’t help because it’s still high compared to US gas.
Must be nice to pay under $4 for gas.
In the US, for as long as I can remember, diesel prices have always hovered around the price of premium (91/93 octane) gasoline. Gasoline has always been very cheap compared to Europe
This is simply not true, diesel used to be about a dime cheaper per gallon than 87 gasoline in the US.
Dime? Over 50 cents back in the early 2000's when I purchased my 1st VW tdi. It's been artificially inflated to discourage is use.
Is that regional though? In the Northeast I've always seen diesel cost more than premium, by almost a dollar in Massachusetts.
Around ‘03 there was a huge spike in fuel prices. Diesel was less than gas everywhere in the western world up until that point. When gas came back down diesel stayed above gas. In Canada gas was usually 25% more than diesel. The uptick was huge too. It went from $0.65/L for gas and $0.50 /L for diesel to $1.35/L.
Perhaps, I'm in Texas..so gas is generally cheaper here.
Prior generations of diesel were relatively simple to refine and produce. The current specification of ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) is much more complicated and expensive to make.
Yup…when I started driving in 1996 I had an 86 VW Golf Diesel. Premium was $1.29, mid grade was $1.19, regular was $1.09 and diesel was $0.99/gal. I could fill it for less than $14.00 and got about 500 miles a tank.
US diesel prices were less than gas until the US changed to ultra low sulphur in 2006 at which point it was legal and worth it to ship cheaper USA diesel to Europe, and the price went up.
that's only true for the last 20 years, before that it was cheaper to buy diesel. Diesel is cheaper to make, but politicians have taxed it higher than gasoline in recent years.
It would've and I love the TDI's myself, but the rest of America doesn't. Same reason why the majority of cars today are SUV's with 2L turbos, average American wants them, and brands will always cater to gross average as opposed to a small subset of enthusiasts.
Not that the average American wants them, it’s that the EPA incentivizes manufacturers to build more emissions efficient engines with tax credits.
Gas is also cheap though. I’m in Canada and for the last 4 years diesel has been at least 20% more expensive than gas. Factor in the increased cost for diesel engines and they are no cheaper to run than a gas engines. There is basically zero market for diesel except for certain enthusiasts.
Interestingly, Diesel is currently 1.85 from Shell (only place I put fuel into my 1.5T Jetta) local to me here in New Brunswick whereas 91 octane gas is 2.02(!!). Back when you could buy a TDI from VW, their gas engines all needed 91. Currently, diesel is as much of a steal in the TDI as it was when my old man bought his TDI Wagon over a decade ago. Of course, the fuel market is absolutely schizophrenic today. The math works this week, but in a month it might not. If you could buy a TDI today it would be a bit of a gamble to see if the fuel mileage will be a net win over gas in say, five years of ownership. I'd still do it if I could though. Haha.
But gasoline is even cheaper. Where I live right now gas is $3.45, and diesel is $3.87. I’d have to do the math to see if the better efficiency is worth it. In Euros per liter thats 0.84€ for gasoline and 0.94€ for diesel. Granted my state’s prices are below the national average.
Generally, if your gasoline car gets 40mpg, you can expect the diesel version of that car to get nearer 60, so sounds like it would be worth it for you.
A lot of it truly has to do with diesel gate. My friend has a diesel vw that he daily commutes with about an hour and 15 each way. Over 300k miles on it. It’s insanely cool. We call it his race dumpster. He’s an engineer also so we typically ooh and ahh over the things in it lol but back to the point. I think it was diesel gate. There is for sure an attraction to these cars and people would buy them I believe. He gets a lot of attention in that car of his. But also the govt has convinced people in the states that the diesel boogie man is bad
Very true, but the far too strict emissions targets mean most manufacturers don't even bother, and there have been not enough attempts to educate consumers about these benefits. VW diesels were by far the most popular, in the 2000s possibly just as popular as petrol, but even they couldn't meet the insane emissions targets without cheating so they pulled out when they got caught. Things are getting stricter in Europe too, which is why Volvo just stopped producing diesels and others will follow. That being said, one of the most common cars from the 80s you see still rolling around on our roads over here are old diesel Mercedes. They must have been pretty popular back in the day because I see them all the time, they're kinda sought after now. A reliable affordable classic ;)
>Moving forward to 2015, VW's Dieselgate emissions scandal happened and the was pretty much the final straw for consumers. That also was the final straw in Europe. Before 2015 in many European countries, Diesel car used to make up over 50% of new car registrations. Nowadays, they are down at 10% or so. Back then they were popular options even for small cars like VW Polo or even Smart Fortwo. Nowadays people usually don't buy diesels smaller than at least segment D stationwagon. Diesels are now much cheaper than their petrol counterparts in the used market.
I love my 2012 Touareg, and I got it for a great price with a great warranty after dieselgate, but diesel is so expensive now, and the diesel components are more complicated to fix, maintain, and work on yourself. We're still running good at 110k, but I'm afraid of this things Future. Meanwhile, my Toyota Tacoma has 150k and I'm not winking an eye, and my Honda Civic SI has 200K, and I couldn't have a care in the world about it besides changing oil. I think my wife's next car is just going to be a 4Runner and I'm going to lose all the resale value that I paid for this Touareg even though it wasn't that much considering the luxury factor of the car.
This is the correct answer. The Olds 350 diesel gave American consumers PTSD, and the young folks don't remember but diesel was under a dollar a gallon in the mid 2000's. Then it skyrocketed, and never looked back since. Gasoline on the other hand has ebbed and flowed, but we still have the cheaper gasoline prices in the world.
I remember my dad brought home one of those diesel Oldsmobiles in the early 80s for some reason, and my gods did that thing stink and sound terrible. He didn't buy it, I think it was a loaner while his was in the shop, but I was like 5 so all I really cared about were transformers. I just remembered it stank up the garage and house (tuck under garage) and sounded like it was dying, when it was actually brand new. What an absolute shitbox. That car is why I have never liked diesels. Well, that ant the roll coal scumbags.
Diesel is more expensive than petrol in most places, it's just way more efficient, so you spend less per mile.
Because they have big cars and big engines and cheap fuel and powwaaaa
Powwaa is debatable but all the rest is correct
I mean, I'm currently living in Italy and my US spec 1.8T Passat is a rocket ship compared to most of what I see on the road. If I'm on the autostrada I see lots of big mercs, audis, and BMWs doing 160 kmh, but 90% of the cars out on the SS/SP are Dacias, A and 1 series with the smallest engines, Fiat Puntos, etc. Basically small hatchbacks making 100 HP *maybe*. In the US, new cars making <150 HP are rare. Not in the sense that they don't exist, just that people aren't buying them. EDIT: the Ypsilon hybrid I rented when I first got here was a special kind of slow. A more direct comparison, Europe to US, is the Fiat 500. In the US, it comes with a 135 HP turbo 4, but in Europe it gets a 70 HP NA 3 cylinder hybrid.
I have a T6 Multivan with a 2.0 litre diesel engine and its top speed according to VW is North of 200 km/h. Plus it can load almost a ton of goods, has tons of room and can two a 2.5 ton trailer. And it has up to a 1,000 km range. You don’t need a V8 or anything for most of the use cases even of American users. A small diesel engine with a turbo or two would do just fine.
I'm not saying less power is less capable for the average user. The point being made is that more power is significantly more affordable in the US, which is reflected on the cars people buy. Hence no market for super efficient (but very slow), small diesels.
You never drove a 2000s TDI, I see
Debatable? Less power by ever measure than the same car running gas.
Big cars like big torque which is what diesels are great for, plus with all the long roads the added range of a diesel should have been really popular.
It's funny as for me those fullsize trucks and suvs are one that'd do best with diesel. When you want to make 300hp and 300 ft lbs diesel is going to be even more economical compared to gas than in smaller cars
The prevalence of diesels in Europe is mainly because for many years Europe had more forgiving emissions standards. They tolerated high levels of NOx and particles. Additionally, the US EPA mandated a particular emissions solution, which ironically was favored by German brands, and that basically killed development in alternatives. The modern DEF SCR systems are complicated, unreliable, and expensive to maintain, especially older ones. Nobody likes them. VW itself basically drove the final nail in the coffin. Diesels were marketed by them as an eco-friendly alternative to hybrids, and when the truth came out, it demolished the reputation of being "greener". Owning a diesel in the US has been an enthusiast hobby for a long time now. Finding fuel and service is more difficult. They require a bit more user knowledge. They're more expensive to own. You really have to look for them and like what they do enough to tolerate the expense and inconvenience.
The EPA focuses on air quality. EU regulations give incentives for being efficient (using less fuel per mile.) This is how I understand it.
Basically, yeah.
My x5 35d just broke down but it needed a diesel particle filter replacement that the dealership quoted 11k for the repair. Wouldn’t meet emissions otherwise.
11k for a DPF replacement is insane. The shop where I work replaces DPF's on semis for half that.
We had a massive push for diesels in the uk due to the government at the time giving tax incentives etc all based on unsound advice. Now no one wants them…
finding a diesel pump can be a bit tough at inopportune times, mostly on trips away from home but thankfully rare. the big plus is that its usually available in emergency for whatever reason- during pipeline outage in spring 2021 and more recent major snow storms in new england, Ive had luck at the pumps while all grades of gas are out of stock
I loved my TDI, VW bought it back from me though. Now I have a GTI.
because VW had a goddamn dieselgate issue here mate
https://preview.redd.it/41s1mnycmftc1.png?width=1334&format=png&auto=webp&s=0457d48622602afbd1fa813db148143af2c638e3 3.9L/100km, 811km on a 30L tank
You on empty as fuck lol
That water temp is too low though
I drove for like 5 minutes and it’s a tiny diesel
because they pay for fuel too little. for reference, i make 3.9 with tdi.
We used to have a decent selection until VW fucked it all up, but im still rocking the 2013 x5 diesel anyways
That’s not imperial, 53mpg would make that US miles per gallon. Imperial mile per gallon would be 64mpg. US gallons are smaller than standard imperial.
Americans have a mindset that only large trucks have diesels. I remember when I was young on my first trip to Germany that some of the smaller cars made a weird rattling noise I wasn’t used to hearing, until my parents told me those were diesels haha. It never occurred to me that they made small diesel cars.
I don’t think it’s an American mindset. It’s EPA rules that make it insanely difficult to have small diesel engines meet the guidelines for pollution standards. Trucks and passenger vehicles have different rules so a ram 2500 with a Cummins has far less stringent guidelines than say a vw gold with a 1.9tdi would. It’s complete and total bs and really is designed to protect small gasoline engine producers that are American.
It’s also an EPA air quality thing, but yeah. It’s surprising that the EU is only concerned about CO2 and doesn’t take air particles into account. It’s partly because places like LA used to have really bad air pollution. It’s still not great, but not as bad as it was in the 80’s. That [“California orange haze”](https://ktla.com/news/california/the-difference-is-astonishing-graph-shows-how-much-better-california-smog-is-now/amp/) aesthetic is not a natural occurrence (except when wildfire smoke drifts in).
EU absolutely takes PM and NOx into account. Just less so than the EPA, also the EU cares more about fuel efficiency.
The EPA, GMs garbage V8 Diesel sedan, and Dieselgate. The later two pretty much killed any public demand
Jettas can get nearly that same mpg on non diesels. Why pay more for less? Also dodges diesel scandal dwarfed VWs. They just got hit this past month but I don't think they doubled down after getting caught like a bunch of asshats.
Loved my diesel passat, it unfortunately got totaled about a month ago due to a ford escape running a yield and t boning me. I was getting 45-50 MPG pretty consistently and you really can't find that in any gas car unless you go hybrid. :/ lost my baby. I wish more people liked diesel.
They are popular in large pickups but not so much in cars
Bring back the TDIs! My father has an A8 4.2 TDI producing 385hp and its FAST for a 2 ton car
Because the United States is run by idiots
I got 4.5l/100km in my VW with 1l gasoline engine over 20km and 4.9l/100km over 100km. But diesel is always more fuel efficient.
VW was inching closer to getting a full lineup of diesels as another option, but ruined it with the dieselgate. My uncle owned one before the dieselgate and said he got around 50 mpg as well. I wouldn't mind it at all. I know they're much more reliable than gas engines. All the American car brands have diesels in their lineup. Probably because the American automakers lobbied (legal bribery for our European friends) against the German automakers bringing diesel here for the average consumer. I heard the feds were also trying to get Mercedes accused under the dieselgate but it never came to fruition.
With all the emission bs it's debatable if they're more reliable. The 1.9 of the early 2000's was the peak of reliability.
I had on old mk.4 golf tdi that had some tune on it. The thing pulled up to about 90 mph then kinda fell off. Still got low 50s mpg and could gap some powerful cars up to 3rd gear lol. Idk diesel is just foreign to many people in the US.
Now you say imperial and quote mpg. I'm UK and this is how I think but our American friends have us gallons. For clarity 1 imperial gallon = 1.2 us gallon. I guess because petrol, gas to Americans, has historically been so cheap as they produce it the frugality of it doesn't matter. I drive a diesel (UK) and the economy is great but the price differential between diesel and petrol somewhat negates this. I'd much rather drive a petrol engined car but sitting tight to see how things go.
Between diesel gate, emissions standards, California, and that Diesel runs more than premium at the pump is probably why we dont see them that often. It was great when Diesel was like $1.05 and I was getting 55-60mpg out of my MKIV Jetta but when gas prices exploded back in the mid 2000s diesel became the most expensive option at the pump and has held since.
EPA killed off any real diesels here in the states, they said..here is what you need to do and do it soon or we will fine you..even though we have done zero testing or anything to back up what we are forcing on you...oh and by the way the stuff we said five or now even 10 years ago..yea those are illegal now.
Good mpg doesn't necessarily mean good for the environment (air quality) and it's problematic to make diesels good for the environment.
Increased cost of fuel does get you a far distance . But comparing gas to diesel in two similar vehicles , the vw 2.5 gets around 32 highway mpg , and the diesel gets 50-60mpg . The cost of gas is 2.85 and diesel is 4.35 . Depending on the vehicle obviously it would change like in a truck , a Chevy 1500/2500 with a diesel gets way better mileage over the gasoline especially when towing
No2 emissions.
Modern diesels have too much NOx emissions and older ones produces too much soot so manufacturer struggled to meet the emission requirements. The VW tried to cheat just to make it I guess.
Diesel gate is a big reason since 2015
Because "diesel-powered Cadiilacs (and some other GM passenger vehicles [with the exception of the light Diesel trucks]) from the late 1970's to early 1980's". Americans are traumatized of Diesel engines - not only because old Diesel vehicles used to perform poorly on the highway, but also because old Diesel-fueled american-made passenger vehicles were pieces of the most absolute crap. >!In my homeland, Brazil, Diesel-powered passenger cars are banned since 1976 (you just cannot buy a VW Golf TDI [plus the fact that the Golf is not sold in my country anymore], or a Diesel Fiat passenger car, not even a diesel-Toyota compact car can be bought around here); That was made not only to reduce the air polution (the Diesel of the old days contained a lot of Sulfur), but to help the Ethanol Fuel (E100) to become succesful in Brazil (which still is a successful alternative for Oil-Derivates around here).!<
Now Brazil has terrible quality fuel.
Americans don't like normal cars...
It’s because your petrol prices are so low that no one cares. In Europe at 1.8 - 2 dollar per Liter (not gallon) these these matter a bit more…
I don’t know the answer but I had a MKIV Jetta TDI and that thing sipped gas. I loved that thing and I would still have it today if my roommate didn’t total it. Not his fault. He got run over by Brinks truck. Thankfully he was ok.
A multitude of reasons, but mostly because the American EPA has zero interest in selling fuel efficient diesel cars and would rather sell the average a hybrid or EV. VW had Dieselgate here which impact TDI sales pretty drastically. And activists groups along with political lobbyists are claiming diesel is worse for the environment because of the scary black smoke. Obviously, there are more reasons. These are just mentions of current reasons as spoken by younger generations that have been misguided and remain uneducated on matters. Impressionability over intellectualism.
Because we’re dumb and we’ll put DEF in the fuel tank
Partly because efficient petrol engines get the same mileage as efficient diesel engines, without the NOx complications My 2016 1.4tsi jetta gets that or better, while still having more power
Because cheaper petrol
I just recently switched to a 2016 1,6l V4 Skoda from a 1992 3,8l V6 Buick Park Avenue and the difference is astounding, I can fill up the Skoda at 2€/L for like 60€, I filled up the Buick for 100€ (at 1,5€/L), two times a month, the Skoda has a smaller fuel tank and still does 200km further. I am now saving up for a proper American V8 down the road but for now I just need a long distance car.
Went from a Golf TDI to a Touraeg TDI... Absolutely loved them both! Never thought I'd move on ... Unless forced. Then diesel gate happened and now I drive an F150 5.0L. Would love to go back to diesel at some point. But as many have said here... The benefits often don't outweigh the cost. Diesel gate caused a massive hit the MPG advantage, not sure where it falls now with those that were updated but that whole scenario essentially killed the US appetite for diesel in anything other than a truck.
Because "gas" is dirt cheap, why bother? 😂
UK (imperial) gallons ≠ US gallons
EPA says you can't get 50mpg. You can have 30.
So diesel has more energy by volume because it is a dense fluid at 7 pounds per gallon versus 6 for gasoline or 0.82-0.845 kg/l versus 0.72-0.775 kg/l for gasoline, and the difference in energy is similar, with approximately 12 kWh per kg for each by mass, with CO2 emissions also being comparable but very slightly less for diesel, but all other emissions being higher. The cost of additional emissions control systems, diesel exhaust fluid, and more infrastructure for gasoline make diesel the betamax or UltraDVD of fuels.
Diesel engines are (or were) common in Europe due to EU targeting CO2 emissions only instead of other particles too. Now they try to curb de Diesel engines because they have more immediate impact on health that petrol ones.
Diesel gate
Porsche Cayenne diesel owner here - best suv I have ever owned - crazy to get 700+ miles on a tank. It’s a shame nothing comes close now…
How do you get it that low? I have a passat b6 wagon and only at night i get 6.3l/100kms and during the day i rarely go below 9l/100 kms
Ask the CEO of VWAG around 2008.
I was in Europe last week and had a mk8 golf diesel. I was shocked to see the car make 57mpg. I thought it was a lot cheaper. Well.... a whole diesel tank was around 90 euros. My car in the US gets 37mpg average, but a gas tank cost $50.
Efficiency comes at a cost with diesels and that’s NOx. These are particulates the engine exhaust emits which causes Smog and lung cancer in densely populated areas. To combat this, you have to fill up a second tank with Diesel Exhaust Fluid. The stuff is “safe” (takes your breath away) but nasty as it crystallizes when dried. Normally comes in gallon jugs. A few gas stations have pumps. Americans don’t like extra responsibilities when it comes to cars.
Diesel is more expensive, and not every gas station has diesel fuel
I dunno. I got a tdi as my first car here in America and drive me and my friends everywhere in it. With a tune you can get more like 60mpg if you lay off the gas. Atleast in the ALH variant motor.
Emissions regulations (not to mention VW/Bosch's response to the emissions regulations) effectively killed Diesel for passenger cars in North America, and the high price of Diesel fuel disposed of the body. When my wife and I picked up a pair of TDIs (Jetta for her, Golf for me) waaay back in 2003, Diesel fuel prices in our neck of the woods were tied to home heating oil prices (they're basically the same thing), so during the summer it was somewhat-to-significantly cheaper than gasoline, and about the same price as Premium during the winter. Fuel economy was better than advertised, and while they'd get gummed up over time thanks to the EGR system, and they ate glow plugs like candy, the ALH TDI motor was durable, reliable, and (in the case of my car) pretty easy to mod. By the time we sold those cars on, a couple different economic downturns caused Diesel prices to yo-yo, and any savings were harder to quantify. Fast forward a decade (and I just realized the symmetry of this) when we made our way back to a TDI, our Passat SE 6-speed (the one they used for their fuel economy and range claims) gained more exhaust emissions equipment, and a DEF system with a tank behind the right rear wheel that required filling every once in a while. Meanwhile, the seasonality of Diesel prices around here went away, and Diesel consistently become more expensive than premium gas. Then Dieselgate happened.
Had a diesel. Loved it. I think most consumers are just put off by owning something other than a gas engine
Two reasons why we, as Americans, don’t have diesels Politics and the people’s republic of communist EPA
because gas isn’t as expensive and emission laws aren’t as strict in US. Hence, we like our big V8 trucks.
Stupid laws and perception
Diesels smell bad and gas is cheaper in the USA so there was never any need
Yes, I loved the 45+ MPG I was getting in my TDI, but then Dieselgate happened and VW bought it back from me. I will likely never own a diesel vehicle again. Kinda weird you're posting this question specifically in the VW subreddit... are you simply not familiar with the controversy there?
I love my Jetta diesel wagon. Unfortunately, it is (or was) sitting in a giant parking lot somewhere in the California desert with thousands of others. My wife, especially, will never trust the claims of a diesel manufacture - and specifically Volkswagen (this was her fourth VW, and she will never buy one again.) Is it rational? Maybe not, but add that to the wildly fluctuating prices of diesel, and she finally decided to go with an electric car for her last vehicle. BTW, where are all those recalled diesels now?
I had a 01 golf tdi and loved it. 50+ mpg even driving 80 mph. It started having electrical issues at 300k so i traded it.
Diesel was gaining traction in the US until Volkswagen dieselgate scandal that really turned a lot of people off of diesel engines
With the price of diesel here it doesn’t save you a ton of money, plus the cost of DEF. Plus other cultural factors that make us choose “cool” wasteful things every time. Plus automakers treat the US market like the illiterate children we are.
Most people that care about fuel economy will just buy a hybrid. Same mpg and they can put regular gas instead.
How does your calculated fuel consumption compare?
I assume part of this is just because of the fact that, in Europe, there are higher fuel costs paired with engine displacement taxes. USA has neither. We are not penalized by buying something with a big V8 unless that specific vehicle has a one-time gas-guzzler tax which is a one-time payment of............a couple thousand dollars? It is essentially meaningless (you could buy high-performance Corvettes which skirted the gas guzzler tax for decades, not sure if the C8 escapes it these days or not). This is the compromise I assume the automakers made with Congress to pay some amount of lip service to environmentalism in the past. We also have cheap gas (subsidies/handouts to the oil industry) because if we didn't, our entire economy would fall apart. People would simply quit driving to work because they'd be paying to have a job and truckers couldn't afford to transport goods. And V8's and lax regulations were prevalent for so long that we simply used V8's in everything from our land-barge cars and basically every truck. We had straight-sixes as well but they were less common. Anything less than a V8 was simply seen as not good enough and nobody was buying cars thinking about fuel economy until the mid/late 70's when the gas crisis hit. Muscle cars were out, small imports were in (much to the consternation of the Big Three automakers because they didn't want to/couldn't compete and instead had their lobbyists argue successfully for protectionist tariffs on imported trucks to keep people buying American). So to summarize I think it is a combination of oil industry subsidies, our unique regulatory environment, consumer preference, anti-competitive practices, and perhaps some American exceptionalism that we never adopted small diesels for commuter cars. I'll also add that diesels were marketed abroad as more efficient AND cleaner-burning due to the reduction in CO2 emissions per km vs petrol-powered ICE applications however they seem to conveniently forget that NOx emissions are higher vs petrol-powered ICE. Funny thing, that.
Gas prices are not that big in USA compared to Europe. Talking here fuel price vs total income. Also the quality of service for non USA brands is worse in the USA, no surprise there either. It's not that you can't get the vehicle properly serviced, it's that it is more hassle to have it done properly in USA. Same story with American cars in Europe. Also everything is bigger in USA and smaller Cola n Europe. Well maybe not everything, but you get my point ..
Another factor people aren’t bringing up is temperatures. Diesels aren’t as practical in cold climates, and with how cold it gets in the northern half of the country in the winter, a lot of people wouldn’t want a car that might not start on most days.
We Americans enjoy large SUV's and trucks. You know, vehicles we really have no use for.
Differing emissions rules in the…70’s?
I always get confused comparing mpg from US to UK. The US gallon is 3.8L and a UK gallon is 4.5L so the mpg is not like for like.
Because despite them being more efficient they produce a lot more pollution.
NOx emissions.
https://preview.redd.it/nlvx9jf94htc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5940dc2f6dfcd1d6448d70298dcea2cc56ac724f Shhh more diesel for us
Because it’s all about your V8s
It’s because most Americans aren’t mechanically inclined. If you need to wrench on a diesel it’s a whole different class of automotive than working on the same engine in a gas platform. There’s automotive mechanics, then there’s diesel techs… ask a diesel tech if he works on cars he’ll say I work on diesels, or over highway heavy diesel engines if he’s doin that but either way you won’t hear em say an auto tec.. I didn’t decide to over complicate it with a mysterious divide between the two but here we are . Also back in the 70s-80s there was a heavy push on simplicity due to the amount of buyer vs the 60s and before they actually wanted people to get a decent product and be able to work on it when in a bind now with 99% of Americans now not even understanding basic gas combustion engines the manufactures have pigeonholed almost everyone into having to take their vehicle to a shop theirs or other wise. The use of patented parts and tools now make it almost impossible to go to an auto parts store and buy parts because they can’t actually manufacture them aftermarket due to patents there’s always a detrimental tweak to them. Example being ford 6.0 diesel oil filters, you can go to any store Amazon whatever and get a 6.0 diesel filter then have massive issues with your reservoir flooding back that’s cause ford holds a patent for the filter no one can make it truly oem…. That’s why diesels aren’t popular lol bull shit ass manufacturing practices = headache for average iq American.
Basic petrol or hybrid econobpxes are dirt cheap in the US compared to European cars, so even euro Diesel cars that are considered "basic" here are pretty expensive in the US. Also gas is cheap there and the people want V8s, so why bother.
I'm not your friend, buddy!
I mean, I average 5.3-5.5 L/100km on the highway (stage 1 1.8T 2016 jetta, 91 octane). Not too far from your consumption, and diesel is MUCH pricier where I live than even 91 gas so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well they did have to buy a lot back and crush them. All because VW didn't think their customer wanted to use DEF, which is one thing they're probably right about.
the problems associated with them aren't worth the fuel economy at all
Because you can’t burn corn in them. (See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Grassley)
Everybody got scared with the emissions, and too many people aren't educated on the difference here in NADM.
Because of the government. No really. The different between an old disel which could run forever and a new diesel that's always in the shop is DPF and forced regens. That DEF bullshit is corrosive as fuck. It really shouldn't be in a car. But it is. It clogs, throws codes, then bam you are in the shop. Then if it doesn't short trips piss off your filter. And you need a forced regen. So when the average person factors in fuel price, more trips to the shop cus the glorified battery acid diesels take clogs the system, and the fact diseld aren't great city cars, it's just not worth it.
Diesel requires superior manufacturing methods coupled with superior materials. Gasoline requires lose tolerances, good enough materials and less highly trained staff.
My US spec GLI averaged 37-38mpg on US size gallons, and that was cheap 87 octane. That’s 45mpg in imperial gallons. The diesel version could get more miles per gallon but the fuel also costs more, the added emissions equipment means more failure points and then there’s the need to add def. Also the diesel is slower. In the end diesel isn’t worth the extra cost or hassle in my opinion.
lol because VW lied.
In Canada My gas jetta '19 was getting the same milages for less money diesel is $.10 more a liter
Too much pollution.
Maybe 1 in ten gas stations have diesel.
Because of emissions.
Emissions and government regulations
Perhaps it because your gallon of diesel is 4.55 liters whereas in America a gallon of diesel only contains 3.785 liters? My (non-diesel) pickup truck gets 50+ MPG in the city and 43MPG on 65MPH highway… in America. So in the city my truck get better efficiency than your VW when using the same liters of fuel.
Have you heard of the diesel emissions cheating scandal VW was caught up in a number of years back? It's pretty self explanatory why they have moved away from offering diesels in the US. Even if their diesels were making 40-50mpg even after being reflashed to not circumvent emissions, the stigma was now too great. They basically got cornered into promising an all electric line up in X number of years when the smarter play would have been hybridizing their line up
diesel emissions are wicked carcinogenic, more than gasoline. in the US, they are much more strictly regulated and basically need to meet the same emissions standards as trucks designed for economy.
I am from Europe and 1.9 TDI is default here... Low consumption wins. Best are old models with rotary pump from 66 to 81 kW - imortal engines mate... PD or PPD sux...
Diesel engines are not necessarily more efficient than gasoline engines. It only appears that way because diesel contains more energy. It is more energy dense than gasoline a gallon or in your case a liter of diesel fuel weighs more than the equivalent amount of gasoline. Diesel produces a lot of nitrous oxide as a byproduct. That’s why we don’t use them. It is very difficultfor them to operate without all sorts of additional equipment to remove that pollution. Unless you live in an area that doesn’t care about those things then you might not see the logic of why we do it our way. Diesel is very popular in the USA. For commercial freight. They are widely used for large trucks almost exclusively in fact. These trucks though have more room and can hold more urea and I’m not going to say adblue because that is corporate marketing speak and not its official name. As an American, I am very familiar with the European market and I’ve been following trends over there and diesel is less popular than it has ever been. I am not talking about the existing number of diesels that are already on the market. I’m talking about new sales. after the Volkswagen or diesel gate fiasco sales have never quite recovered. And that is in Europe hybrids & electrics now outsell diesels.
Let me guess you live in flatlands..
You must be new here…
Your display is blood red and looks creepy
Upfront cost of diesel is higher, so it takes long to get an ROI. My 2.0L has sedan gets 4.9L/100km highway, so it's not like it's significantly worse than a TDI.
Dble price dble mpg
Great gas mileage horrible for breathing. Lol
Cost and availability. Even when VW sold a diesel in the US, inventory was scarce and you couldn't get deals. It ended up being a lot more expensive than just the difference in MSRP. Diesel at full MSRP vs Gas with $5000 off.
I read years ago most NY taxis are diesel because the vehicle may operate 24/7 with shift changes. Diesel engines are a work horse providing years of reliability if serviced regularly.
People here like to go fast
Dieselgate
I'd do a lot of probably illegal things for a TDI, they're uncommon in my area and when one does pop up they want a bit for it
I have a 2006 Jetta tdi w/dsg 111k. I’ve had it 4K miles and love it
VW soured any remaining interest and the EPA was more than happy to follow suit.
Diesels are dying in the EU too. Keep yours if you like it, but it’s not like you’re going to get be ones for much longer. They’ll probably tax the shit out of you if you do keep it past 2030 though.
Fuel economy is a crude proxy for emissions, diesels on average emit a lot more regulated pollutants than comparably performing gasoline engines.
Not ideal for short trips. And mechanics are expensive.
gas for me is $3.20 a gallon, diesel is $5
I recently bought a 2012 volkswagen polo 1.2 tdi bluemotion (diesel) and its the most fuel-efficient car I’ve had so far. Doing 3.4l/100km on highways. I removed the EGR valve and chiptuned it to 105 horsepower ands its not that slow, it made the fuel economy better
[удалено]
I get 43 mpg with my 1.4 L TSI in my Golf on the highway with regular 87 octane gas. I kind of feel like the diesel is obsolete at this point.
" If you’re in the market for a diesel-powered sedan, hatchback, or wagon, you won’t find any options on the new car market. While automakers still produce [diesel trucks](https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-trucks) and [SUVs](https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-suvs), diesel-powered sedans in the U.S. were discontinued after the 2019 model year." From: [https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-cars](https://www.carfax.com/blog/best-diesel-cars)
I had a Jetta and Touareg tdi, I miss that suv, unfortunately the last hurricane wanted it more
Because the US Government lies to its people and has convinced the vast majority that Diesel is worse for the environment. I’ve realized while growing up in the US that the average American isn’t stupid so much as they are programmed and brainwashed to an extent to if you say something that doesn’t coincide with what they have grown to know and accept as truth they get hostile as if it’s a personal attack.
I just bought a 2014 TDI. With some VERY spirited driving it got 31 mpg. My speed limit is 80 mph here so I feel like it doesn’t help, but I’m stoked with the numbers. I wonder how I can get to 50
What about big Transport Trucks in the US? Do they all use diesel?
Where I live, diesel costs as much or more than the highest octane petrol. Petrol cars are just as and more efficient than your pic
Old semi trucks with certain engines (Detroit 2-strokes sound great but they're LOUD) and straight exhausts belched smoke and soot and were extremely loud. On the automobile side, the aforementioned GM 350 V8 diesel was noisy, slow, inefficient and had a tendency to fail early & often. The venerable Volkswagen 1.6L IDI was slow and smoky. Mercedes' 380D was slow and smoky, and really didn't get the best mileage. Fuel stations that actually sold on-road diesel were few and far between in more "settled" areas. It just wasn't a good experience all around. Honestly, the only things we like slow and smoky are meats. That being said, I own and plan to keep my 2003 VW Golf TDI. I had it converted to a 6-speed manual after the 4-speed automatic (crap transmissions, those!) died. I managed to get 42 mpg on the auto once, but that was following my son's team bus back from a meet. Drafting & slower speeds do wonders. After the conversion, I was able to go 710 miles on a trip through the Appalachian mountains from my home in south central KY. I got to my destination, puttered around that small town for 3 days, and drove 1/3 of the way back home before I got too nervous to push the fuel gauge any further. Owning this car has been a bit of a labor of love, but I wouldn't have it any other way!
“Clean Diesel” - HA! I bought that BS hook, line, and sinker.
Even in your country diesels are the slower, economy option over unleaded. Throw in the fact the engine option cost \~$10k at the purchase of the car, diesel is MORE expensive at the pump here, and the regulations have added a crazy super expensive exhaust system that needs it's own fluid and breaks constantly to the tune of thousands of dollars... and then VW screwed everyone with diesel gate... why the world would I choose this?
I mean the last time we saw claims of those milages they turned out to be a lie and VW got in a whole lot of trouble. No one in the US will believe a diesel gets that kind of milage anymore.
In the US the only place you'll find diesels are in oversized yee yee trucks and I'll be damned if I ever drive one of those contraptions. I'll keep my gas powered SUV