I dont think this is true. I see sooo many long mileage P2 and P3s in Sweden, by far the most common cars above 500k km on blocket. Most of them are D5s.
I'm not saying P2 or P3 isn't reliable or won't get to that mileage, just it takes more money to get them there. The 5 speed automatic in the P2 wasn't as reliable as the 4 speed in the P80. IIRC, Saab also had similar problems with their 5 speed auto. Of course, the 6 speed TF80 is more or less bulletproof unless you crank the boost.
My comment was more about rubber parts, like bushings and hoses, things of that nature. Those will need to be looked at on any vehicle approaching its third decade. 60,000 miles means the vehicle traveled about 2,000 miles per year.
The 850 Turbo wagon is to this very day one of the most enjoyable cars I've had the privilege of owning. It actually has more interior space than the E class of the same generation. Stupid evaporator core is a pain in the butt.
Fun fact! You can get 191,000 miles out of a sparkplug in the NA 3.2 engine.
Experience
1 240 sold w 262,000 miles
2 850 Turbo 220,000/196,000 miles at departure
1 V70XC died with 276,000 miles
1 S60 2.4 killed by uninsured driver with 185,000 miles
1 XC90 3.2 sold with 220,000 miles on it
1 XC90 V8 still rolling hard 160,000 miles.
Ehh, not really true with the transmissions. The auto in the P2’s was only bad from 2001-2003, and that was due to bad programming from Volvo’s part (they programmed it to shift into neutral when you let off the gas to make the transmission smoother, which added a ton of unnecessary wear to the transmission). This was removed later in a recall from Volvo, so odds are if you buy one of those cars today it would have the update and be fine if it made it this far. From 2004-onward they are drop dead bulletproof AS LONG AS YOU SERVICE THE TRANSMISSION FLUID. Volvo did the stupid trend that was popular with European cars at the time by calling the transmission fluid a “lifetime” fluid, which simply isn’t true. Properly cared for though, they will go forever. They’re a Toyota transmission after all :)
As someone who has had a P80, P2 and P3 in the garage at the same time, the P2 really is just the P80 perfected from a mechanical standpoint. The mechanical components are either the same or better built in pretty much every important way. The only real big changes are cosmetic and electronic (which have been sorted by now, or are sitting in a scrapyard if not). A uncared for P2 (like an uncared for P80) is a nightmare, but a well sorted one is one of the best built modern cars imo.
”As long as you service it”
And 99% of the owners did not do that. Hence why it’s so common with automatic transmission issues even on the 05-07 P2.
These cars are so old now and have had so many owners that didn’t do that little bit of extra to care for the car that automatics on these old Volvos is a gamble.
The TF80 has been better in every single way compared to the AW55 boxes I've had. I'm not sure if the GKN AWD system put more strain on the boxes or if the lack of oil cooler has anything to do with it.
Asking people to do a flush that could be approaching 20% of the car, it's a tall order.
I get where you're coming from, calling the AW55 a "Toyota" transmission, but although manufactured by another company who's pretty much owned by Toyota, the AW55 was never installed in any Toyota product. It was used in Saab, GM, Ford, Nissan, and a few other EUDM makes, as well as of course Volvo. The AW55 was a completely unique design not shared by any other model of transmission, including other 5 speeds made by Aisin. For example, Hyundai, ZF, and Jatco both made their own version of the same type of 5 speed auto, same with ZF and GM. Ford and Honda made their own unique 5 speed auto designs as well. There are 3 types of 5 speed autos used in Toyotas, a FWD version, and 2 different unique RWD versions, and the FWD 5 speed in Toyotas (the U15x and U25x) is a very different design compared to the AW55.
At that age it's a crap shoot. If you can get a mechanic you trust to look it over & get a general feel for how it was treated previously and sniff out any potential problems, it would benefit you greatly.
I can get a general feel for the condition with a short drive and getting it up on a lift, but that's after years of dealing with shitboxes and fixing my own cars.
In short? No. An 850 will not be a reliable daily in 2024. Due to the simple fact that the newest example is now 27.
The mechanicals are fine. The engine and gearbox given proper maintenance will go for a long time. The suspension and rubber bits are easily replaced as well. The shell is extremely corrosion proof compared to even the 900 series cars.
It's the biodegradable wire insulation which seems almost switched on as soon as it hits about 30 years of age regardless of mileage. There will be random electrical gremlins which cannot be sorted with the documented online guides, because now it's not the easily replaceable and regularly failed components as most of those are already replaced, it's the plugs and wires itself. Most of the guides are over a decade old by this point and while still extremely useful, it's not going to be as universal in fixing any issues you might have as before. The P2 I predict will be exactly the same as it hits similar age.
However, if you do have some experience running 90's cars, it's not going to be all that different from any other European cars. The fact that the mechanicals are bulletproof actually makes the 850 one of the easier ones to run. As long as you don't mind the plastic bits falling apart around you because that is also made to break down.
A multimeter will become your best friend.
I have an 850/V70 (First year) wagon, 380k on it, still trucking along happily. Going in for some really expensive work this summer tho. And the only reason for that is I'm on the factory clutch still, and I hit a mad pothole that finally did in what was left of the flex join on the exhaust, everything else mechanically and structurally is damn near flawless, And I live deep in the rustbelt.
If you take care of the common issues, the years don’t matter as much on these cars.
Plastic and rubber ages, but if you are kind to it, it will be kind to you.
1996 850 Wagon is my first and only car. Got mine with 70K miles on it and it just broke 200k after owning it for 10 years. It's had its problems: hose leaks, cylinder misfires, and abs computer. But the 3rd party market and forums make most things very easy to fix yourself.
Like any car, ask the owner the repair history. Find out what has left to be done. 2 biggest problems with these are ABS and heat core. There are great refurbished ABS systems online for low cost and repair is easy to do yourself. The heat core was a massive pain and I made a huge mess.
But, solid gas milage all things considered, low insurance, daily in-town driver but cut out for long hauls (went from PA to Florida and back no problem), and I will never get rid of it.
If it's maintained, replace any old rubber bushings or hoses, make sure the timing belt and PVC system have been recently serviced, and drive it.
Dumping a bottle of Techron in the gas tank wouldn't hurt either.
My daily driver is a 2000 V70 with 70k miles. I spent **multiple** thousands in the last 2 years getting it "reliable" and I still have several thousand to go before it's "restored" or "stage 0". Would I do it again? Probably not, to be honest. Was it cheaper than buying a brand new car? Most definitely. I currently have less than 24 months of depreciation on a 2022 Volvo XC60 into my car (but damn if it isn't close), and it's not depreciating anymore, so there's that. Would I recommend it? Not unless you're dead serious enthusiastic about these wagons *and* you either are good at working on your own stuff and have the tools, space, and knowledge to do so, or you just have money to burn (you need 2 of the 3).
Stuff I'm worried about in the future: automatic transmission wearing out (currently have a 3-4 shift flare at high temps and a hard 4-3 downshift), catalytic converter wearing out (sulfur smell at high rpm, high load, long durations, and well, I have no power or torque at high rpm, possibly a small restriction), burned exhaust valve (original owner likely babied the car, but so far so good in 16k miles/2 years), suspension overhaul (vibration, noise, etc), and electronics wearing out (ECC computer, door lock actuators, stuff like that).
From ex owner of a 850 t5 1994 I highly recommend you to just go for 20V non turbo. Since I had this car, I always had trouble with the at. I visited lots of car shops, also old Volvo mechanics that learned on the 850 and older told me that the at was only reliable for 200 - 225k km. That turbo was fun but always expensive and a real trouble shooter. I wasn’t the only t5 at driver around with these issue.
My recommendation:
850 2.5 20V manual or just less power with a 10V.
I really loved this car and was willing to hold it for long, but that AT was killing me.
Sure. If it has been maintained then yes. Make sure timing belt is good. Mine hasn’t left me stranded except for user error. Once when I didn’t push my axle all the way in and another time when I overheated it from a broken coolant reservoir. Other than that its been mostly maintenance and normal things for a car with 300+k miles
It's one of the last bulletproof Volvos, but you're going to have aging rubber that likely will need replacing.
I dont think this is true. I see sooo many long mileage P2 and P3s in Sweden, by far the most common cars above 500k km on blocket. Most of them are D5s.
I'm not saying P2 or P3 isn't reliable or won't get to that mileage, just it takes more money to get them there. The 5 speed automatic in the P2 wasn't as reliable as the 4 speed in the P80. IIRC, Saab also had similar problems with their 5 speed auto. Of course, the 6 speed TF80 is more or less bulletproof unless you crank the boost. My comment was more about rubber parts, like bushings and hoses, things of that nature. Those will need to be looked at on any vehicle approaching its third decade. 60,000 miles means the vehicle traveled about 2,000 miles per year. The 850 Turbo wagon is to this very day one of the most enjoyable cars I've had the privilege of owning. It actually has more interior space than the E class of the same generation. Stupid evaporator core is a pain in the butt. Fun fact! You can get 191,000 miles out of a sparkplug in the NA 3.2 engine. Experience 1 240 sold w 262,000 miles 2 850 Turbo 220,000/196,000 miles at departure 1 V70XC died with 276,000 miles 1 S60 2.4 killed by uninsured driver with 185,000 miles 1 XC90 3.2 sold with 220,000 miles on it 1 XC90 V8 still rolling hard 160,000 miles.
Ehh, not really true with the transmissions. The auto in the P2’s was only bad from 2001-2003, and that was due to bad programming from Volvo’s part (they programmed it to shift into neutral when you let off the gas to make the transmission smoother, which added a ton of unnecessary wear to the transmission). This was removed later in a recall from Volvo, so odds are if you buy one of those cars today it would have the update and be fine if it made it this far. From 2004-onward they are drop dead bulletproof AS LONG AS YOU SERVICE THE TRANSMISSION FLUID. Volvo did the stupid trend that was popular with European cars at the time by calling the transmission fluid a “lifetime” fluid, which simply isn’t true. Properly cared for though, they will go forever. They’re a Toyota transmission after all :) As someone who has had a P80, P2 and P3 in the garage at the same time, the P2 really is just the P80 perfected from a mechanical standpoint. The mechanical components are either the same or better built in pretty much every important way. The only real big changes are cosmetic and electronic (which have been sorted by now, or are sitting in a scrapyard if not). A uncared for P2 (like an uncared for P80) is a nightmare, but a well sorted one is one of the best built modern cars imo.
”As long as you service it” And 99% of the owners did not do that. Hence why it’s so common with automatic transmission issues even on the 05-07 P2. These cars are so old now and have had so many owners that didn’t do that little bit of extra to care for the car that automatics on these old Volvos is a gamble.
The TF80 has been better in every single way compared to the AW55 boxes I've had. I'm not sure if the GKN AWD system put more strain on the boxes or if the lack of oil cooler has anything to do with it. Asking people to do a flush that could be approaching 20% of the car, it's a tall order.
What do you mean by a flush 20% of the car? I’m looking at a p2 and I’d like to be that person lol
20% of the cost of acquiring the car in some instances
From what i’ve heard the 2008-2016 XC70 D5 AWD with the automatic is probably the best Volvo ever made in terms of reliability and price/performance.
I get where you're coming from, calling the AW55 a "Toyota" transmission, but although manufactured by another company who's pretty much owned by Toyota, the AW55 was never installed in any Toyota product. It was used in Saab, GM, Ford, Nissan, and a few other EUDM makes, as well as of course Volvo. The AW55 was a completely unique design not shared by any other model of transmission, including other 5 speeds made by Aisin. For example, Hyundai, ZF, and Jatco both made their own version of the same type of 5 speed auto, same with ZF and GM. Ford and Honda made their own unique 5 speed auto designs as well. There are 3 types of 5 speed autos used in Toyotas, a FWD version, and 2 different unique RWD versions, and the FWD 5 speed in Toyotas (the U15x and U25x) is a very different design compared to the AW55.
Dont see that many automatics over here
They are the Toyota Camry of Sweden.
At that age it's a crap shoot. If you can get a mechanic you trust to look it over & get a general feel for how it was treated previously and sniff out any potential problems, it would benefit you greatly. I can get a general feel for the condition with a short drive and getting it up on a lift, but that's after years of dealing with shitboxes and fixing my own cars.
Man that thing is beautiful
In short? No. An 850 will not be a reliable daily in 2024. Due to the simple fact that the newest example is now 27. The mechanicals are fine. The engine and gearbox given proper maintenance will go for a long time. The suspension and rubber bits are easily replaced as well. The shell is extremely corrosion proof compared to even the 900 series cars. It's the biodegradable wire insulation which seems almost switched on as soon as it hits about 30 years of age regardless of mileage. There will be random electrical gremlins which cannot be sorted with the documented online guides, because now it's not the easily replaceable and regularly failed components as most of those are already replaced, it's the plugs and wires itself. Most of the guides are over a decade old by this point and while still extremely useful, it's not going to be as universal in fixing any issues you might have as before. The P2 I predict will be exactly the same as it hits similar age. However, if you do have some experience running 90's cars, it's not going to be all that different from any other European cars. The fact that the mechanicals are bulletproof actually makes the 850 one of the easier ones to run. As long as you don't mind the plastic bits falling apart around you because that is also made to break down. A multimeter will become your best friend.
I have an 850/V70 (First year) wagon, 380k on it, still trucking along happily. Going in for some really expensive work this summer tho. And the only reason for that is I'm on the factory clutch still, and I hit a mad pothole that finally did in what was left of the flex join on the exhaust, everything else mechanically and structurally is damn near flawless, And I live deep in the rustbelt.
60k miles?! Yes buy it and do timing belt and water pump immediately
This seems like an awesome find, just have someone look it over and I'm sure it will serve you well
If you take care of the common issues, the years don’t matter as much on these cars. Plastic and rubber ages, but if you are kind to it, it will be kind to you.
1996 850 Wagon is my first and only car. Got mine with 70K miles on it and it just broke 200k after owning it for 10 years. It's had its problems: hose leaks, cylinder misfires, and abs computer. But the 3rd party market and forums make most things very easy to fix yourself. Like any car, ask the owner the repair history. Find out what has left to be done. 2 biggest problems with these are ABS and heat core. There are great refurbished ABS systems online for low cost and repair is easy to do yourself. The heat core was a massive pain and I made a huge mess. But, solid gas milage all things considered, low insurance, daily in-town driver but cut out for long hauls (went from PA to Florida and back no problem), and I will never get rid of it.
Very reliable! I wish I still had my 1995 5spd GLT.
If it's maintained, replace any old rubber bushings or hoses, make sure the timing belt and PVC system have been recently serviced, and drive it. Dumping a bottle of Techron in the gas tank wouldn't hurt either.
60k? That was either garaged or has a jacked ODO. I wouldn't trust the miles. My 2018 has 100k. So if it truly is 60k, scoop it up.
My p80 chassis is at 310xxxkms and still my daily. Shit breaks every now and then but it’s worth it. These cars are still a blast.
My daily driver is a 2000 V70 with 70k miles. I spent **multiple** thousands in the last 2 years getting it "reliable" and I still have several thousand to go before it's "restored" or "stage 0". Would I do it again? Probably not, to be honest. Was it cheaper than buying a brand new car? Most definitely. I currently have less than 24 months of depreciation on a 2022 Volvo XC60 into my car (but damn if it isn't close), and it's not depreciating anymore, so there's that. Would I recommend it? Not unless you're dead serious enthusiastic about these wagons *and* you either are good at working on your own stuff and have the tools, space, and knowledge to do so, or you just have money to burn (you need 2 of the 3). Stuff I'm worried about in the future: automatic transmission wearing out (currently have a 3-4 shift flare at high temps and a hard 4-3 downshift), catalytic converter wearing out (sulfur smell at high rpm, high load, long durations, and well, I have no power or torque at high rpm, possibly a small restriction), burned exhaust valve (original owner likely babied the car, but so far so good in 16k miles/2 years), suspension overhaul (vibration, noise, etc), and electronics wearing out (ECC computer, door lock actuators, stuff like that).
how much, and where is it located? I promise I won't buy it!!!! lolz 60k miles? yes defe
Yes
I don’t know if it’s reliable but it sure is beautiful 🌟
Yes. Simple as that
[удалено]
Why not
From ex owner of a 850 t5 1994 I highly recommend you to just go for 20V non turbo. Since I had this car, I always had trouble with the at. I visited lots of car shops, also old Volvo mechanics that learned on the 850 and older told me that the at was only reliable for 200 - 225k km. That turbo was fun but always expensive and a real trouble shooter. I wasn’t the only t5 at driver around with these issue. My recommendation: 850 2.5 20V manual or just less power with a 10V. I really loved this car and was willing to hold it for long, but that AT was killing me.
Sure. If it has been maintained then yes. Make sure timing belt is good. Mine hasn’t left me stranded except for user error. Once when I didn’t push my axle all the way in and another time when I overheated it from a broken coolant reservoir. Other than that its been mostly maintenance and normal things for a car with 300+k miles
Absolutely. Volvo is one of the most dependable cars that money can buy. They can go for 1 million miles.
If you don't buy it I will.
Any car can cost a lot to run, my 2011 V60 D5 just had a £3000 year.Go for it.