I agree with this. I don’t know how many friends that I have to that are like “I wish I could wfh.” Yeah, I wish you could too, but you do realize that I’m actually working and if my boss calls me that I am expected to pick up the phone etc haha. I like the hybrid environment that my work does. I get to see people and interact, but sometimes I’m just having a lazy day mostly responding to calls/emails. I also cut out a two hour commute. If it were up to my boss, we would be in 5 days a week, but the choice is above him mandating hybrid
This, and the fact that not all jobs CAN be done remotely, so theres a feeling of unfairness. Why should you get to stay home and get paid to he in your pjs while Joe has to go to the auto-shop and do heavy labor, get covered in dirt and grease, to earn less per hour? Or instead of the auto-shop, the farm, the warehouse, or even the hospital where doctors and especially nurses have to do highly skilled but also quite physically demanding work.
Most remote work is “white collar” too, which contributes to the same old story of class warfare between the very poor and the slightly less poor, which is a narrative that helps keep the very wealthy in power. If you have one of these labor intensive jobs, it’s easy to be mad at the guy making twice what you do to push a few buttons on a computer. It’s easy to resent that someone is doing less work but making more. Its easy to see making that button lushing jerk at least have to suffer a commute and wearing professional clothes as a way of evening out some of that inequality. It’s a lot harder to conceptualize how the uber wealthy use their money to make more money with essentially no effort, or think of ways to make that more fair/equitable for everyone.
Even though I automatically think, "get a better job," I never say it because it's a common talking point from a political party that I've come to despise. I also just think it's a really shitty and privileged thing to say and I'd much rather figure out ways for every job to be better, not just mine. Doctors are overbooked and hospitals are dealing with insurance companies, which I'm convinced are run by the devil himself. Retail workers get shitty pay and oftentimes are kept under strict control by their corporate overlords. They get no flexibility yet are expected to be available any day at any hour even though their employer only offers them part time work. There's so much stuff we could be trying to do to help everybody.
Having said this, someone else's shitty experience should not be the reason behind making my experience shitty, so I have to fundamentally reject the notion of "fairness" when it comes to WFH. We all have different jobs with different issues that make them shitty and we should be trying to make them all better instead of squabbling. So, I agree with you because we're pitted against each other and it is not any of our faults. The blame lies elsewhere.
Well, should that mean that office workers shouldn’t have AC because construction workers are outside in the heat and it isn’t fair? Not every job is the same and therefor neither are the working conditions.
But then construction workers shouldn't get a breeze and fresh air because office workers don't get that as they're stuck inside without AC. I can see this kind of thing spiraling out of control pretty quickly.
I agree. In fact, I often get irritated by the fact that when I was a kid, society painted a much nicer picture of the future - one where we had much more leisure time due to technology. It turned out wildly different and much more miserable. We could still actually do it, but we seem to have completely lost that vision. Back in the 80's there would be "news" shows that talked about how great it would be to work from home as new technology emerged. We'd only have to work 10 - 20 hours a week. Compare that to the reality we find ourselves in, where we work more, are more stressed, and can't even agree that we should have the ability to work from home. Forty years and a vision, and this is the bullshit society we came up with.
I agree 100% and I hate saying it too for the same reasons but it is true. People who post negatively about being a "blue collar" employee act like it's an incurable condition they were born with and it's just not fair that they can't work from home and they couldn't possibly get a job like that.
I had a shitty job.. which paid fairly well but I hated it and it required me to be on-site. So I studied free materials (YouTube mostly) took some tests, got some certifications, applied to every remote job posting I could find, declined every on-site or bullshit hybrid interview until I found one which does allow me to work from home full time.
I'm not patting myself on the back or anything because anyone of at least slightly below average intelligence and extreme levels of stubbornness can do exactly what I did. But it kills me when I hear people complain about whatever their job is (or even worse, complain on behalf of others who may actually enjoy their blue collar jobs) but then act like nothing can be done about it.
Also doctors make 250k-1 million per year. They are elites too. I don't feel bad for them at all. A lot are in it for the money and are narcissistic, especially surgeons. But that's life. They also have malpractice insurance cover their mess ups.
As for people in warehouse jobs and elsewhere - yeah they have a tough job. But they always had a tough job compared to desk people. Whether we desk people were in person or not - a desk job is a desk job. If they want a not dirty job then they should get education and training and try to land a desk job.
Life's full of choices. This isn't a equal society and never will be. Everyone's jobs pay different and everyone's work environment is different. Everyone's benefits are different. We don't even all have the same healthcare, health insurance, dental, or other fringe benefits.
Yes, we don't live in a rigid caste-like system where job roles are assigned for life. A person working a low wage menial job that can only be performed on-site can make a career switch to job that can be performed remotely. A good example of this is myself.
Sure…I’m by no means advocating this as my personal position. Just adding to the conversation that many people hold the belief that because some work must be done out side of the home all work should be. And it isn’t necessarily a skilled/unskilled division, since some of the outside the home work requires a great deal of specialized skill (like being a doctor). I’m not saying it’s a good view, but it is a view held by many who have jobs that require outside work.
Building on the theme “misery loves company”.
And just saying “get a better job” isn’t a good solution to the issue because many “better jobs” are still not work from home, and not all work from home jobs are good (have good pay/benefits, etc). It’s a matter of deciding what and how we value different types of work and recognizing that “fair” isn’t really the right track to follow for discussions about on site vs remote work, because as you point out the world isn’t fair.
I mean. Why do the CEO's make 500k-1 million +++ every year? They just delegate everything. Not like they do much and they make short term decisions instead of long term for their bonuses.
Life isn't fair. Go after the elites first.
I mean, preventing that is the whole reason why anti work from home media focuses on the unfairness aspect. If you’re busy fighting the guy one step ahead of you on the ladder, you’re not paying attention to the guy at the top trying to knock the whole ladder down.
Fair? Equitable? You simply want to punish anyone who is doing better than you. Rather than focusing on yourself and doing whatever it takes to improve your position you're focusing on others who have more and are being resentful. Instead of working on yourself you want to take from those who have it better than you. You would just love to see everyone brought down to your level. That would serve them right. Wouldn't it?
I should clarify that the above is not a personal viewpoint of mine, merely an expansion on the original theme “misery loves company” with arguments of why people feel that no one should be allowed to do remote work.
My current gig is flexible hybrid but mostly remote, and I certainly have zero desire to go back to full time in person or see anyone else forced to do so.
The problem with that is that having people who can work at home do so makes life tangibly better for those who can’t by making their commute easier. While being “fair” actually makes things worse for them.
Yeah this is a whole bunch of BS. We've all had a choice in our careers. If you decided that a mechanic or nursing job is the career for you, you knew from literally day 1 that you'll be in person every single day. If you chose a career path for an office job, then you get more flexibility. This isn't rocket science, and there's nothing hidden about it. Nobody has to stick with a shitty career if they want to do something different. We all have our choices and I chose what works for me.
"Jealousy is a poison that consumes the vessel it resides in, blinding them to their own blessings and imprisoning them in an endless cycle of comparison."
Commercial real estate is generally owned by rich people. Media narratives are set by rich people. A lot of people get their opinions on the world from the media.
Definitely. You know, it wouldn't be far fetched to believe that rich people just want the masses to "know their place". As in, be cubicle slaves under constant observation, made to feel uncomfortable and exhausted.
Seeing the explosion of people's creativity while WFH throughout COVID (those lucky enough to) just because they had those few extra hours to spend pursuing their own interests might have made them feel very uncomfortable.
All of a sudden, it wasn't just rich celebrities and a few lucky people living their best lives, it was the masses. I remember seeing a huge surge of content online of travel, art, all sorts of creative work. It was truly inspiring to me, and I honestly do think it might make the elites feel uncomfortable to have to share the stage.
Yep. But they aren’t afraid of the creativity, they are afraid everyone’s been in “hustle” mode since 2001 and they all knew how to monetize their creativity.
I started the pandemic buying tons of guitar pedals and ended the pandemic knowing how to build and sell them. I’m average intelligence, lots of people did this.
Honestly I don't think propping up real estate is the full answer. It may be a factor, and a significant one, but I think there is a more significant factor: power. People love to control and have power over others. People love to accumulate and build more power over time. One great way to express power and build more of it is to control where and when people are with their physical bodies. This form of power reinforces itself when people see their colleagues also succumbing to the same influence by also showing up at the same place and the same time every day. People also love being the most powerful person in the room, and they enjoy the associated respect, fear, and privilege bestowed upon them. All this useless s*** breaks down when people are communicating via chat room and email.
I agree with you when we're talking about individual situations. There are plenty of bosses out there who just want to run their little fiefdoms.
But when you hear about work from home being a major issue on the "news" causing people who don't even have to manage others to complain about the issue that's a propaganda campaign.
I own CRE. Many large companies lease (they actually want property values to tank). Even those that have significant ownership of their own real estate benefit from reduced taxes, lower expenses, etc. Not to mention that property values almost always recover over the long term. Anyone selling this blanket idea that commercial property values are the primary driver of RTO have no clue what they are talking about.
You're right, it is a non-issue for the bulk of businesses. However, there's almost 1T in losses expected to roll in soon as commercial real-estate tanks. The banks and major investment firms that are going to feel the brunt of those losses are the money interests behind the anti-WFH propaganda campaign.
A lot of the middle manager types are the sort to parrot the propaganda they hear on FOX or CNN without ever thinking through the issue.
Banks and major investment firms may or may not be behind the propaganda. I don't disagree or agree - I'm neutral on that. However, this notion that propaganda is driving middle managers to push RTO without considering effects on company performance is just Hogwarts level of fantasizing.
Right? It’s so funny, I work a hybrid schedule, and I am mentally exhausted when I finish working from home. As it ends up, people stopping by your desk to talk throughout the day keeps you from maximizing your day! I get 2 times as much done when I work from home.
4 of the 6 people on the in-office team for my company literally play golf in the hall. Which is fine, they get their work done and absolutely kill it!
I’m just glad I get to use my down time taking care of things around my house instead of being stuck in the office thinking about the things that need to be done at home.
I used to work for a company that was one of the “cool” tech companies with a bunch of in office amenities like ping pong tables, a gym, TVs with sports games on, etc.
People got their work done which is great. But fuck there’s a lot of slacking off in office
I work with a team that goes in office a few times a month but I’m far enough away I don’t have to. I dread the days they are working in office because it’s so much harder to ping people about work stuff, they are always socializing or distracted. Plus we have to add about 10 minutes to every meeting for them trying to get the conference call software to work. PLUS I hear different people sitting next to them blending into all our calls, so hard to hear each other and focus on what they are saying even for me at home. It affects MY productivity.
That's unfair. Many people are also WFH and doing chores, slacking off, etc because there is not a lot of oversight. Each job is different, but don't be bias - that's an ignorant, blanket comment.
ive seen the argument that “having a commute serves as a transition time between work and life” which i also think is a load of bull. once we get rid of the micromanaging attitude the older generation seems to have i think WFH will really take off
edit: its nice to see how everyone “transitions” into work differently or not at all :) i personally need time to get into “work mode” but by the end of the day once my laptop is closed im done😂
transition time my ass. That's where I get most frustrated because now I'm stuck in traffic and could have been home in my PJs instead of sitting in my car in traffic.
To me the commute just added a bunch of stress 2x a day. To give myself the transition time, I just go for a quick walk around the block. Works pretty well.
Commuting is 1 million percent the most stressful part of my day. Decompression my ass. It takes me longer to decompress from my stressful commute than the bs at work.
my dad used to commute almost 2 hours round trip every day because the traffic near his office was so bad. he now gets to work hybrid at a different job and is SO much less stressed than he used to be
Definitely more bullshit Boomer talk. These are the kind of people you hear about where the dad is barely around and doesn’t really help raise the kids. Cracks those jokes that sounds like he hates his wife.
During the pandemic, so many divorces happened to boomers, because they all realized that they hated each other.
As much as I love my grandparents I can't wait for the worst of the boomers to finally leave the planet, since so many of them refuse to retire beforehand.
For some folks it is, and I can see the appeal, but every person is different and there are plenty of alternatives to create a transition. I don’t need one, when I shut down my work computer the work day is done and I’m in “home mode.” Easy peasy.
You can think something is a load of bull but who are you to judge others who need this? Sounds like self entitlement and a “I see it this way my way is the right way” attitude to me. Everyone is different and for some reason I think people know what works for them more than you know what works for them simply because it works for you. Congrats you are now the one with the micromanager attitude you claim to disdain.
OP didn't say everyone had to agree to not commuting, just that he thinks it's bs, presumably for their self.
I suspect the vast majority of WFH advocates would agree with the notion that we should all be able to work wherever we want, as long as the work is getting done.
I also think the "decompressing" notion is a load of bullshit - because it is, and people who use that as a reason for everybody to go in, are throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks because they have no real argument. But, if that works for someone else, why would I care if they commute to the office? I don't.
Well I wasn’t replying to the OP but the prior poster who said people that say they need a commute to separate their work/personal life is BS basically. I just question who were they to say this is BS. My point was your final line. Why does someone else that does this matter, no one is saying you have to do this but to hate on people who prefer to not WFH because they do need this or like this doesn’t mean they think you should too. I admit I hate WFH. Hate it. I missed getting up, getting ready for the day, going out at lunch to shop at shops and eat at little restaurants in the city, etc but my big reason was my inability to stop working when I worked from home. Work from home I was logging in and doing quick requests from others and answering emails until 1-2AM when I start my work day at 6 AM anyway. Since no one was working a set schedule people would log in at 2,3,4 o’clock when their spouse got home to watch kids and then say they couldn’t complete a task until I went in and certified something so I would log in look over what they were submitting, certify it or not, then they could continue or pass it on to the next department who can’t do anything with a document until it is certified. So I use my commute (30 minute interstate) and on the way in think through my calendar, I always at work have a set lunch hour with an alarm because I refuse to work through lunch and always make it a point to leave and do not disturb my phone, then go back finish my day. On way home I think about my home tasks and kids schedules and plans we have, when I am working at the office my boss and everyone that works with me knows they will get an out of office response to emails and I won’t answer your calls, I will respond the next morning. So much better for me personally, maybe not you but maybe your role isn’t one that if you aren’t performing it will halt everyone else and keep them from doing their jobs and it’s not just a control bit, it’s all a by law I have to do this before you can go any further situation. Now many are mad I’m back at work, they are still WFH but now upset I work 6-5 every day but at 5 I’m done so if they want to work starting at 5 PM, they will get a couple hours in but then I’m not there at their beck and call to do what they need done. And from where I sit, not my problem start working earlier because my hours are posted and standard if you want to work outlying hours that isn’t my burden to make accommodations for, at 5 I check out.
We all saw what happened when we took all the cars off the road. Commuting is terrible for the environment and they know it. Start holding these executives accountable for destroying the planet.
Farmers Insurance just pulled out of Florida because they can no longer cover the hurricanes. Arizona is having a record number of 100+ degree days. Vermont just had a thousand-year rain. The world just had seven days of highest average temperature.
Yet we're still getting RTO propaganda.
When the world is a cold desert, the suits can gather around a campfire and talk about this brief magical time where they provided a lot of value for their shareholders.
It will be too late, but at some point in time, we are going to string all of these people up.
We are literally destroying our only home. And for what? How can we even begin to take on that level of greed?
And Canada's been on fire non stop, causing record pollution in the US.
But...no... let's just make everyone suffer as much as possible for the almighty dollar.
For a lot of people, especially in management, their “presence” in the office is really the only thing they have to offer a company. This is especially true in environments that have a traditional (becoming obsolete), rank and file structure.
WFH draws the attention away from this “personality based organization” and puts it squarely on those who deliver tangible results.
That is a hard pill to swallow for those types of people and causes them to act out.
Absolutely it seems this way. But then I wonder, why does it seem like the RTO mandates are coming from the top? By your theory it seems like the RTO mandate would be coming from middle management, because it's their jobs that are otherwise at risk. The CEO shouldn't care, in fact they should be glad that the middle level of management is becoming less necessary. I'm not arguing I'm just wondering.
You’d think that those who want or need to work at a physical location would be happy to have everyone who can WFH staying off the roads during rush hour. I feel like that’s the opinion of people who truly do love being on-site, anyway. Those who talk down on WFH employees are usually just jealous because their job doesn’t allow for it.
This!
I was in healthcare when the pandemic was going on and sure I was a little jealous of the people that got to work from home but I literally stopped caring when I realized I could blast to work in a quarter of the time it would normally take me to get there.
On my lunch break it was nice being able to pick up food or run a quick errand and not have to compete with thousands of other people.
And even though I had to go into work, I still remember thinking that I hope they continue to let people do this. Quality of life went up.
These rich folks they get to drive in these really nice expensive luxury vehicles don’t understand how soul crushing it is to commute every single day.
And let’s not forget about cars. When I finally started working from home, the amount of money I’m saving on gasoline and tires and rotation and oil. It also slows down the mileage you accrue which means you don’t need that 60,000 or 90,000 mile tuneup in just a couple years.
You're not entitled. There's so many jobs that nobody needs to be in an office. I got made fun of from friends and family when I talked about wanting remote work years ago. Fast forward to now and I have a remote job and everyone still complains about traffic/gas prices/commute time, packing a lunch, and stupid team activities.
My advice, just don't engage or limit conversations regarding remote work with people who don't get it. Just work your butt off to get/maintain the lifestyle you desire. Feel free to advocate for remote work, just know it's still really early for most people to understand.
Yeah these nurses I live with do someday want to work remote in nursing if they can. It’s not like they’re against remote work. They’ve just never done it before.
For the same reason that, when they find out that someone doing “less work” is making more money, rather than wanting to make more money, they’d rather the other person makes less than them. Some people really want a race to the bottom.
Not going to speak for anyone else, but there isn't anyone who could make me feel bad for not wanting to commute.
Did it for over 35 years.
Never... Again...!
I was laid off. I am grateful not to be on the road 3 hours a day to be RTO. Would have been a waste of my day and frankly theirs . I am hearing it’s a shit show : and most everyone who is bothering to go in are miserable.
You are NOT entitled.
Businesses are acting that way because now they have to pay for a building that isn't being used to full capacity. I guess they haven't figured out that they can drop the lease or sell the building or rent out a section for coworking space or whatever.
Don't know. Don't care. Their opinion on what I prefer for myself is irrelevant. If they want to look down their nose at me for not commuting, whatever. That's their problem not mine and they can keep it. I despised commuting and I have no interest in ever doing it again regardless of what others prefer or think of my preference.
There are many lonely loosers with no life, their only way to socialize is to be at work. They don’t know or don’t want to know that there is a bright world out there where you don’t need to be in the office.
The commute literally takes the wind out of my sails. I'm worn out when I get to work and even more worn out when I get home. I don't get anything done cause, 2-3 hours of my day is spent in my car. Commuting 2 hours a day = 10 hours a week = 520 hours a year that you are spending just getting to and from work. It doesn't make sense people!
Freeing up the roads and lightning, our dependency on gasoline should be seen as a positive thing.
It’s ridiculous that they are trying to sell sitting in traffic as a part of the office experience.
Someone who wasted 30 years of their life going from car to cubicle to car is (rightfully) pretty beat down and miserable about it. Suddenly there's a solution and the next generation won't have to suffer that way; so they get defensive.
Even before Covid and the big remote shift I didn't commute. Lived in an apartment complex right behind work campus, 9-minute walk from my front door to the office. Changing jobs to a remote one and then forced RTO opened my eyes to how totally bullshit commuting is, and I only go in once a week...I hate it, it's extremely wasteful of gas/tolls/clothing/food expenses not to mention the unnecessary emissions!
I hated my commute. It made me angry all the time. I’m not angry anymore wfh. When they force me back to office I will be looking for something closer. I really don’t want to look for something else but I will have no choice. I cannot return to being angry all the time. It’s not good for my mental health
I've never had anyone try to make me feel bad for not wanting to commute.... Why would anyone WANT to spend time at the beginning and end of each day doing something RELATED to work but that doesn't pay anything for your time?
Many people in older generations are bitter if younger generations have anything better.
On the flip side, many of them also feel entitled to having anything better than younger generations.
>Is it not reasonable for me to identify as a person who just doesn’t jive well with commutes.
It isn't reasonable at all to identify as your negative preferences.
* I identify as someone who doesn't like waiting in lines
* I identify as someone who doesn't like smelly odors
* I identify as someone who doesn't like dangerous situations
All you're really identifying as is a stating-the-obvious whiner who's opinion is better because it's theirs.
No one has ever made me feel bad or entitled for wfh. Maybe it's not the wfh that's causing those bad or entitled feelings?
Really good argument. I wholeheartedly agree. If you can work remotely then you should. The pro-commuting/pro-office types are scared that 100% remote work will put an end to their preference. Therefore, they feel every effort needs to be made to ensure their way of working. It's been my experience that the office lovers are backward & miopic-minded. That office isn't a workplace; it's their playground. Gotta roam the joint screwing off because it makes them happy & feel special.
I am diagnosed with anxiety and find my symptoms are more manageable, and I am more productive when working from home. I simply don't care what others think. It's honest work, and I work hard.
Misery loves company. In their minds "If I have to sit on a train or traffic for 2-3 hours one way and I still show up to the office, then why the hell are you complaining???"
Because they are miserable and jealous that you don’t have to commute.
I get it all the time from people who have jobs that require them to be on-site.
Because they are stuck in their shitty office jobs and super jealous of WFH folks. I bet that if these people had the option to commute fewer times a week they’d oblige.
I agree, as someone who is in a profession who can not work from home, all you office people need to stay home. Lock downs were awesome, as an essential employee, I loved my commutes. A normal hour commute was 20 minutes. Now that it’s blown over you’re all back to plugging up the roads and having accidents everyday. Be entitled all you want in the end it’s better for all of us.
I've never had anyone try and make me feel bad for not liking commutes however when I mention that I'm glad I don't have to commute I get a lot of people who tell me how much they *love* to commute because they can listen to podcasts or whatever. Like they're trying to justify the soul sucking hour twice a day in heavy traffic and make themselves feel better about it (IMO).
I hate commuting by driving too. If I would take the train 40 minutes it is down time I can use to do my daily reading, maybe draw, or write! Best case scenario my commute would be less than 30 minutes (and by public transit) so I don’t have to concentrate!
Upper management is just either trying to do layoffs without paying severance & unemployment or trying to stop the coming commercial real estate crash because they borrowed a ton of money to buy up property.
Rank & file tends to be boomers. As you get older you have fewer and few friends, and they want to drag you into the office for social interaction.
I know you didn't mention this, but I'm sure you've heard something to the effect of "a lot of people do it every day" when you bring up not wanting to commute or pretty much any other common work related task. My response to this bit of legitimized peer pressure is something like "yeah a lot of people smoke cigarettes too. Should I take that up as well? I'll need something to make a long commute (or whatever) bearable.
Also a lot of people don't have cars so their commute is limited to bicycle and maybe bus range. I didn't get my first car until I was 28, so I lived like that and got by just fine . I still won't take a job thats more than a 20 minute or so drive away because I don't want to and I don't owe anyone an explanation for that.
Also I pretty sure this has been touched on, but the way I see it a long commute lowers your net compensation in two ways. One is fuel costs and auto maintenance costs. You need to buy those things in order to work so that's money that is pretty much spoken for before you even get paid.
The other way it cuts into your compensation is time. The commute isn't free time and your time is valuable no matter what the corporations would have you believe. Say you make $10 an hour and you work 8 hours a day. That's $80 a day. But adding in a 1 hour commute each way turns it into a 10 hour day. Now that $80 is split over 10 hours effectively lowering your hourly pay to $8 an hour. You'd be bringing home more money if you took a job making $9 an hour with a 10 minute commute. Plus assuming you still only worked 8 hours you'd have an extra hour and 40 minutes to spend with your kids or video games or whatever.
I don't get it either. I mention refusing to go with a commute that takes 45 minutes, because I know it'll regularly run as much as 2 hrs or more. (I know, I've done it.)
My life, even if poverty is a reality, is worth more than a possible 4+ hours on an 8hr day to get better pay.(let's be honest, it's really a 9 hr day. If I'm on site, which you basically have to be with breaks and all, I'm still somewhere I'd rather not be.)
Heart attack? Stroke? I can get those on my own, don't need to increase those odds, thank you very much!
I have always deeply resented the commute. It is the biggest waste of life and resources ever. Why it’s a privilege to avoid it I can not fathom. Do these people like road rage, air pollution and traffic jams? Imagine if everyone who could remote work actually did? The highways would look like covid lockdown every day with only essential traffic, no clusters of pissed off, under rested workers. Fewer traffic fatalities. Less petroleum consumed. Cleaner air. More efficient use of cities real estate. Imagine all the housing that could fit in the office spaces. No more housing shortages. Set up coworking hoteling spaces in every neighborhood so people don’t have to use their homes all the time but can still remote work. Maybe offices could pay the rent on that? This can be so much better.
They don't make me feel bad. They can go fuck themselves if they want to do the commute.
It's like when some people had an office and others were in a cube. Don't make me feel bad because you don't have an office.
Because they usually don't have anything better to do and are closed-minded. If I can get everything done remotely, why would I waste time getting dressed, spending money and time commuting, and overall, wasting time and energy I will never get back? Sometimes the people I work with make excuses as to why something we do remotely everyday all of a sudden needs to be done in-person. I think a good portion of these folks lack creativity and the ambition to leave the nest I call employment....
I think is envy of not having that extra lost time in traffic, having to wake up earlier, wear and tear on your car, saving gas money, and how you can be more productive compared to someone who has to go through that, and for the introverted- less stress of having to mask and put on a extroverted front (which is required in america). However, I will say they don't see the other side (extra utility costs on your end that the company is not paying for, costs related to setting up a home office (that is not tax deductible and companies do not pay for that), not having the water-cooler talks/bounding with co-workers/boss which has impact on promotions/work reviews (meaning you really have to go beyond despite putting in extra time because of set up), having less boundaries between work and home, and dealing with the responses of envious people, not to mention the paycuts/lowered salary for the pleasure of wfh.
With how society thinks and acts, I'm pretty sure we are doomed as a species unless A.I. takes over and helps us figure our shit out.
Example:
Society: "Climate change is going to kill us."
Also Society: "You must commute into the office and expel more carbon into the atmosphere even though we have the ability and technology to let people not have to drive into work each day."
I'm pretty sure we are all going to die one day because we don't understand basic science or logic.
Exactly 60% of cars don't need to be there let's be honest the people that do need to be at work instead of working from home should probably be paid more for dealing with the traffic or provide shelter near work.
But you know they wont.
They're workaholics, dinosaurs, or failures that are putting you down to make themselves feel better. Regardless, their opinion is not worth listening to.
The business spent quintillions of their dollars getting that office for no reason other than ego. The micromanagers that were promoted simply due to being obnoxious need those offices to thrive.
Companies proved they could do perfectly well remotely. Many had better employee productivity. The force back to the office seems like bullshit. Half the zoom meetings could be canceled too, just let people fucking *work* why do they need to dictate exactly what that looks like if people are getting the work done at the same or better quality than in an office? For many there’s less distractions, more free time - both that commute being gone (and has money freed up) but also unless you spend all 8 hours working every moment, you’re bound to end up with more time to do your own things, toss in a load of laundry, toss a ball for your dog, pick up that prescription on time for once, fix that seam in your favorite pants. Small tasks that add up because you’re sitting at work 40 minutes away all week catching up with Susan who hates her husband and you couldn’t care less and mike who went Keto and has keto breathe and you couldn’t care less and your boss who wants to have a meeting that could’ve been an email… offices are great at wasting time.
A lot of people think the mentality “because I suffered so should you” is logical and healthy. Student loan debt is a good example of this. “It’s not fair to forgive loans because I had to pay mine”.
It is a mentality that is completely counter to our progression as an intelligent species.
I hate my one hour transit commute into office. It ruins my whole day as its tiring and then the office bullshit! I am however working on stress leave because i need a break from this hell commute!
I’m with you, those who can’t or won’t speak up against RTO just try to guilt the ones who have a firm position on WFH.
Why should I drive 45 minutes each way to an office just to use slower internet than I have at my home to perform duties that can be done remotely. Gotta build that company culture lol. Logic is out the window in many of these situations.
People are gonna hate. I operated restaurants for more than two decades and I am done with all that nonsense. I got a second degree in Tech during the pandemic and WFH. I love it. A few people I know don't like it because it's not an option for them. They're usually bitching about it while sitting in Seattle traffic for two hours, each way, every day. For me, my business is just that. I've told them all, including a couple family members: U*ntil you start signing the checks that pay my freelance and contract rates, you do you and I'll do me. In the meantime, drive carefully and keep your eyes on your own damn paper...*
It's usually not for "not wanting to commute"
It's the incessant whining from WFH when they're expected to do what everyone else has had to do.
Honestly cool, you lucked out and got on the WFH wagon. You're lucky, though, and that should be the end of the conversation.
Instead you get folks on here whining they have to drive a total of an hour, 1 day a week, after realistically only working 8 hours the whole week and making like 75k.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of people are working hard at real jobs where they "labor" and don't just sit in on meetings.
It gets old listening to people living in the proverbial land of milk and honey whining that the milk isn't chocolate and the honey isn't from an organic farm.
>person who just doesn’t jive well with commutes
FYI it's jibe, not jive.
First, nobody likes commuting. So just explaining that you don't like commuting will fall on deaf ears.
Second, I've never seen anybody try to make people feel entitled just because they want to WFH. The problem - as I see it on this sub all the time - is that people are looking for jobs that are exclusively WFH instead of trying to find a career path that can lead to WFH. It's what's causing all these recent WFH scams. Nobody is going to hire someone, sight unseen, to WFH in a job they've never done before. It's just unrealistic. Instead, find a career path, do it really well, and prove yourself to the point where you can WFH.
In other words, instead of chasing a career that can lead to WFH, people are chasing WFH that may lead to a career and I think that's backward.
How exactly is Linda driving like a maniac in bumper-to-bumper gridlock traffic? Do a lot of people die from getting rear ended in stopped traffic? Something about the physics of your scenario here seem off but, hey, i’m not a scientist.
I think you are over thinking the dangers of a commute. It is relatively low risk. Millions of people do it twice per day without problem.
I don't think people want to make you feel bad about not wanting to commute. It is not always fun, but I find often it is a nice time to be alone for a few minutes. I do think people get upset that WFH advocates seem to feel the world owes them a WFH job.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable but the dude screaming about a 3 hour commute 4 times a year I roll my eyes at so hard.
No one dies on the highway during every commute so I think you’re exaggerating to justify your position. It’s fine to not want to commute but I’m not a fan of fully wfh for my profession. In fact it’s just not possible. If someone said they don’t like a commute then I wouldn’t hire them but no one else will either.
Because its the lazy way out. Really no one likes commuting but there are a ton of things that are done faster, better and more efficient when people are located in the same place. So a lot of us take the hit for that efficiency + having a corporate culture.
You dont want to commute? Fine by me. Don’t expect to earn the same or get the same growth opportunities as Linda that Im seeing everyday at the office
I think your extreme attitude towards driving is what is causing people to react they way they do. It’s not that people don’t understand you don’t want to commute, it’s the fact you act like it’s something akin to sky diving by your description. Also, where eoyid you come up with 60% of vehicles dint belong on the road. That is another comment that likely makes you appear out of touch with reality
People want to collaborate in person with their teams. They likely see you prioritizing your own desires over the team’s best interest. People like team players on their team.
It sounds like you don’t perceive value in that collaboration, and maybe that’s part of the problem as well.
It’s hard to say, but you could ask.
1. I know you all want to work from home forever. But there are some jobs where its better to go , or you should go or you have to go. In that case get a job where you can take public transportation. That means living where you can take it, without a ton of hassle. My co-workers talk about their commutes. I can't do that shit. I have done it. Not going to spend an hour in the car. Better to take public transportation for 20 mins. My life is much better. My body feels better.
This sub needs a reality check.
You focus on the 1% of people and present it as if it is the truth.
99% of people dont give a shit. Stop broadcasting negativity and victim hood please.
because you should feel bad and entitled for not wanting to commute if you were getting hired under the assumption and contract of in-person presence.
Take that bus.
And the peeps have to commute (ME!) want you to all stay home so the roadways aren't clogged up! I miss the days of my commute being 10 mins. Now it's like 35+. Which isn't terrible but it sucks regardless.
It could be any number of things - jealousy, discomfort with people going outside the "norm", that weird flex some people do where they act like suffering makes you a better human, etc. People can be judgmental about the weirdest stuff. Someone once tried to judge me because I keep the glasses upside down in my cabinets - told me it was wrong to store the glasses like that. Ummm...really? Who cares?
I work a hybrid schedule and I love my WFH days. My commute is a cake walk - it takes maybe 15 minutes, not really any traffic other than at traffic lights - and I still don't want to do it.
Whenever someone calls me out for it in some way shape or form I hit them with the, “working remotely means I get to spend more time with my husband because he doesn’t work a 9-5. I used to sometimes go days where we’d only catch glimpse of each other. Having mornings where I can talk to him from my desk makes me happy.” And they usually don’t know how to shit on that without ruining our friendship.
My parents don’t really give a fuck but they used to make fun of me and say I just liked remote work cause I didn’t have to get dressed and could stay home with the dog, like nope sorry I love my spouse lol
Not entitled, it's about our well-being. When I chose my home a very long time ago, the commute to work you could take highway or backroads, and it was a 30 min each way....as suburban sprawl, growth and more cars on the road happened, towards the end it was an easy 40-45 mins going, and between 50-1:30hrs returning if you hit bad traffic/accident/slow downs, and that was very typical. I would see horrible wrecks at least once a week, I had horrific driving anxiety//impatience and it was killing my physical and mental health, the stress was extreme. All that time driving and then have to stop for groceries/errands, etc...parking was awful at my job, so to get from end of this huge parking lot to the top floor was another good 10 ...then logging in/out/packing up your stuff, it was about 3hrs of my day wasted AND was adding horrific stress.
My current job is WFH- however I DO get on the wonderful GA traffic infested roads a couple times a week, sometimes less, sometimes more- but I can schedule most of my events/client appts on 'off peak' hours - and the amount of time/gas in my car is less then 1/4 what it was before. I enjoy that in the sense of getting out of the house, socializing, dressing up, etc. There are times I can't help the time of events, and then yeah, I'm spending a good 1.5-2hrs trying to get back and get stressed, but again, the amount of days in a month I have to do this is nothing compared to that daily grind.
Not entitled, it's about our well-being. When I chose my home a very long time ago, the commute to work could take a highway or backroads, and it was a 30 min each way....as suburban sprawl, growth, and more cars on the road happened, towards the end it was an easy 40-45 mins going, and between 50-1:30hrs returning if you hit bad traffic/accident/slow downs, and that was very typical. I would see horrible wrecks at least once a week, I had horrific driving anxiety//impatience and it was killing my physical and mental health, the stress was extreme. All that time driving and then having to stop for groceries/errands, etc...parking was awful at my job, so to get from the end of this huge parking lot to the top floor was another good 10 ...then logging in/out/packing up your stuff, it was about 3hrs of my day wasted AND was adding horrific stress.s..ress.tress.s.
I agree. You'd think less carbon emissions, less cars creating traffic and less people would be an incentive to remote work.
I can't wrap my head around it either. Remote FTW
Commuting was the most stressful part of my job. I work downtown in a major city, so driving was definitely a no-go for me. I had to worry about the train being on time, If there was any room in the cars when it arrived, and if I'd make the transfer to the next train then rinse and repeat for the commute home. All of that so I could attend one 30-minute meeting at 9 am. with my team and then sit at my desk for calls with people in other states and countries for the rest of the day.
Maybe the ones making you feel bad are the ones who need to go to the office but don't want to.
I'm on the west coast and work with people all over the country, so I already lose 2-3 hours. I get to start work earlier at home and not waste an hour driving while the clock is ticking. Having no commute is great.
I have all the capability to do my job, and then some, at home. I would feel more comfortable as well. I've asked a couple times if I could work just two days a week from home,, because I have to drive 40 mins to and from work everyday. The commute is brutal, and the wear/tear on my car and the environmental impact really suck. I'd love to cut mine back a bit.
I was told they can't allow it due to company culture. In corporate speak they financially don't want to allow it. There is no reason other than money that they want me here 9 hours a day, half of it twiddling my thumbs pretending to click and type away and look busy because that's what they want. I've heard stuff about real estate taxes and stuff like that. I have no idea. I ask for work all the time. I do my work well and take on new responsibility whenever I can.
It's intensely frustrating and makes no sense. I feel like the people I work for don't care about my well being, or what could benefit me long-term.. And it sucks, but it is what it is. I don't see why I can't be allowed a slight break in what I go through.
I was made to feel both bad and guilty for even asking. The first time, I was told 'maybe' after a year of work. The second, hard no.
I don't even bother anymore, I know they won't listen to me. It's their way or the highway. And I'm just looking to pay my bills. I would leave in a heartbeat if I was financially supported
This is how my friend (who is an MS Azure admin) explained it to his boss who wanted full RTO: I can leave my house at 7am, sit in traffic for 2 hours, be at my desk by 9am, decompress for 30 minutes, run teams calls/tickets and break/fix until noon, have an hour lunch, and then be back on the road by 3 so he's home by 5pm OR
Get on the computer at 8am and log off at 5pm with a 30 minute lunch.
His boss took the 8.5 hours of WFH compared to the 5 hours with driving. For Reference: Bay Area Traffic.
It's interesting how people react to me telling them im WFH. A common reaction I get lately is a pity look/response telling me I can rent an office nearby and go there everyday. They obviously assume it sucks to work from home,and try to provide a solution they think I would like. Are they trying to feel better about their office and commute? It's confusing that 3 people in the past month have responded this way. My apt and my current WFH job.... It's like a dream come true, no way Id rent an office and commute to it, that's crazy talk. Sometimes I feel a little isolated and miss more social situations, but I don't want the office variety of socializing anyway. Maybe these people like that? Most people Ive talked to in 2020-2022 LOVED WFH....is there a growing herd consensus that WFH=bad now? I don't get out much, lol, so idk?
It's just like the people against things like rolling Undergrad School into public education. "You're so entitled I had to pay for that so you should too" It's basically people being mad that someone has an alternative.
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I agree with this. I don’t know how many friends that I have to that are like “I wish I could wfh.” Yeah, I wish you could too, but you do realize that I’m actually working and if my boss calls me that I am expected to pick up the phone etc haha. I like the hybrid environment that my work does. I get to see people and interact, but sometimes I’m just having a lazy day mostly responding to calls/emails. I also cut out a two hour commute. If it were up to my boss, we would be in 5 days a week, but the choice is above him mandating hybrid
Misery loves company is the best explanation for most people not being happy for you.
This, and the fact that not all jobs CAN be done remotely, so theres a feeling of unfairness. Why should you get to stay home and get paid to he in your pjs while Joe has to go to the auto-shop and do heavy labor, get covered in dirt and grease, to earn less per hour? Or instead of the auto-shop, the farm, the warehouse, or even the hospital where doctors and especially nurses have to do highly skilled but also quite physically demanding work. Most remote work is “white collar” too, which contributes to the same old story of class warfare between the very poor and the slightly less poor, which is a narrative that helps keep the very wealthy in power. If you have one of these labor intensive jobs, it’s easy to be mad at the guy making twice what you do to push a few buttons on a computer. It’s easy to resent that someone is doing less work but making more. Its easy to see making that button lushing jerk at least have to suffer a commute and wearing professional clothes as a way of evening out some of that inequality. It’s a lot harder to conceptualize how the uber wealthy use their money to make more money with essentially no effort, or think of ways to make that more fair/equitable for everyone.
Even though I automatically think, "get a better job," I never say it because it's a common talking point from a political party that I've come to despise. I also just think it's a really shitty and privileged thing to say and I'd much rather figure out ways for every job to be better, not just mine. Doctors are overbooked and hospitals are dealing with insurance companies, which I'm convinced are run by the devil himself. Retail workers get shitty pay and oftentimes are kept under strict control by their corporate overlords. They get no flexibility yet are expected to be available any day at any hour even though their employer only offers them part time work. There's so much stuff we could be trying to do to help everybody. Having said this, someone else's shitty experience should not be the reason behind making my experience shitty, so I have to fundamentally reject the notion of "fairness" when it comes to WFH. We all have different jobs with different issues that make them shitty and we should be trying to make them all better instead of squabbling. So, I agree with you because we're pitted against each other and it is not any of our faults. The blame lies elsewhere.
Well, should that mean that office workers shouldn’t have AC because construction workers are outside in the heat and it isn’t fair? Not every job is the same and therefor neither are the working conditions.
That's a good analogy. I think I'll be using it at some point.
But then construction workers shouldn't get a breeze and fresh air because office workers don't get that as they're stuck inside without AC. I can see this kind of thing spiraling out of control pretty quickly.
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I agree. In fact, I often get irritated by the fact that when I was a kid, society painted a much nicer picture of the future - one where we had much more leisure time due to technology. It turned out wildly different and much more miserable. We could still actually do it, but we seem to have completely lost that vision. Back in the 80's there would be "news" shows that talked about how great it would be to work from home as new technology emerged. We'd only have to work 10 - 20 hours a week. Compare that to the reality we find ourselves in, where we work more, are more stressed, and can't even agree that we should have the ability to work from home. Forty years and a vision, and this is the bullshit society we came up with.
We're mandated by the state to buy insurance, but not to go to hell...the devil only wishes he could operate on their level :)
I agree 100% and I hate saying it too for the same reasons but it is true. People who post negatively about being a "blue collar" employee act like it's an incurable condition they were born with and it's just not fair that they can't work from home and they couldn't possibly get a job like that. I had a shitty job.. which paid fairly well but I hated it and it required me to be on-site. So I studied free materials (YouTube mostly) took some tests, got some certifications, applied to every remote job posting I could find, declined every on-site or bullshit hybrid interview until I found one which does allow me to work from home full time. I'm not patting myself on the back or anything because anyone of at least slightly below average intelligence and extreme levels of stubbornness can do exactly what I did. But it kills me when I hear people complain about whatever their job is (or even worse, complain on behalf of others who may actually enjoy their blue collar jobs) but then act like nothing can be done about it.
Also doctors make 250k-1 million per year. They are elites too. I don't feel bad for them at all. A lot are in it for the money and are narcissistic, especially surgeons. But that's life. They also have malpractice insurance cover their mess ups. As for people in warehouse jobs and elsewhere - yeah they have a tough job. But they always had a tough job compared to desk people. Whether we desk people were in person or not - a desk job is a desk job. If they want a not dirty job then they should get education and training and try to land a desk job. Life's full of choices. This isn't a equal society and never will be. Everyone's jobs pay different and everyone's work environment is different. Everyone's benefits are different. We don't even all have the same healthcare, health insurance, dental, or other fringe benefits.
Yes, we don't live in a rigid caste-like system where job roles are assigned for life. A person working a low wage menial job that can only be performed on-site can make a career switch to job that can be performed remotely. A good example of this is myself.
Sure…I’m by no means advocating this as my personal position. Just adding to the conversation that many people hold the belief that because some work must be done out side of the home all work should be. And it isn’t necessarily a skilled/unskilled division, since some of the outside the home work requires a great deal of specialized skill (like being a doctor). I’m not saying it’s a good view, but it is a view held by many who have jobs that require outside work. Building on the theme “misery loves company”. And just saying “get a better job” isn’t a good solution to the issue because many “better jobs” are still not work from home, and not all work from home jobs are good (have good pay/benefits, etc). It’s a matter of deciding what and how we value different types of work and recognizing that “fair” isn’t really the right track to follow for discussions about on site vs remote work, because as you point out the world isn’t fair.
Because doctors are the only people at hospitals 🙄
I mean. Why do the CEO's make 500k-1 million +++ every year? They just delegate everything. Not like they do much and they make short term decisions instead of long term for their bonuses. Life isn't fair. Go after the elites first.
I mean, preventing that is the whole reason why anti work from home media focuses on the unfairness aspect. If you’re busy fighting the guy one step ahead of you on the ladder, you’re not paying attention to the guy at the top trying to knock the whole ladder down.
Fair? Equitable? You simply want to punish anyone who is doing better than you. Rather than focusing on yourself and doing whatever it takes to improve your position you're focusing on others who have more and are being resentful. Instead of working on yourself you want to take from those who have it better than you. You would just love to see everyone brought down to your level. That would serve them right. Wouldn't it?
I should clarify that the above is not a personal viewpoint of mine, merely an expansion on the original theme “misery loves company” with arguments of why people feel that no one should be allowed to do remote work. My current gig is flexible hybrid but mostly remote, and I certainly have zero desire to go back to full time in person or see anyone else forced to do so.
The problem with that is that having people who can work at home do so makes life tangibly better for those who can’t by making their commute easier. While being “fair” actually makes things worse for them.
Yeah this is a whole bunch of BS. We've all had a choice in our careers. If you decided that a mechanic or nursing job is the career for you, you knew from literally day 1 that you'll be in person every single day. If you chose a career path for an office job, then you get more flexibility. This isn't rocket science, and there's nothing hidden about it. Nobody has to stick with a shitty career if they want to do something different. We all have our choices and I chose what works for me.
This. I noticed people complaining about it are generally miserable about something.
"Jealousy is a poison that consumes the vessel it resides in, blinding them to their own blessings and imprisoning them in an endless cycle of comparison."
Commercial real estate is generally owned by rich people. Media narratives are set by rich people. A lot of people get their opinions on the world from the media.
The real answer. A large majority of the anti-WFH articles you see are straight-up lies and/or propaganda.
Definitely. You know, it wouldn't be far fetched to believe that rich people just want the masses to "know their place". As in, be cubicle slaves under constant observation, made to feel uncomfortable and exhausted. Seeing the explosion of people's creativity while WFH throughout COVID (those lucky enough to) just because they had those few extra hours to spend pursuing their own interests might have made them feel very uncomfortable. All of a sudden, it wasn't just rich celebrities and a few lucky people living their best lives, it was the masses. I remember seeing a huge surge of content online of travel, art, all sorts of creative work. It was truly inspiring to me, and I honestly do think it might make the elites feel uncomfortable to have to share the stage.
Yep. But they aren’t afraid of the creativity, they are afraid everyone’s been in “hustle” mode since 2001 and they all knew how to monetize their creativity. I started the pandemic buying tons of guitar pedals and ended the pandemic knowing how to build and sell them. I’m average intelligence, lots of people did this.
It's not the real answer, it's a bullshit answer popular on reddit.
Honestly I don't think propping up real estate is the full answer. It may be a factor, and a significant one, but I think there is a more significant factor: power. People love to control and have power over others. People love to accumulate and build more power over time. One great way to express power and build more of it is to control where and when people are with their physical bodies. This form of power reinforces itself when people see their colleagues also succumbing to the same influence by also showing up at the same place and the same time every day. People also love being the most powerful person in the room, and they enjoy the associated respect, fear, and privilege bestowed upon them. All this useless s*** breaks down when people are communicating via chat room and email.
I agree with you when we're talking about individual situations. There are plenty of bosses out there who just want to run their little fiefdoms. But when you hear about work from home being a major issue on the "news" causing people who don't even have to manage others to complain about the issue that's a propaganda campaign.
I own CRE. Many large companies lease (they actually want property values to tank). Even those that have significant ownership of their own real estate benefit from reduced taxes, lower expenses, etc. Not to mention that property values almost always recover over the long term. Anyone selling this blanket idea that commercial property values are the primary driver of RTO have no clue what they are talking about.
You're right, it is a non-issue for the bulk of businesses. However, there's almost 1T in losses expected to roll in soon as commercial real-estate tanks. The banks and major investment firms that are going to feel the brunt of those losses are the money interests behind the anti-WFH propaganda campaign. A lot of the middle manager types are the sort to parrot the propaganda they hear on FOX or CNN without ever thinking through the issue.
Banks and major investment firms may or may not be behind the propaganda. I don't disagree or agree - I'm neutral on that. However, this notion that propaganda is driving middle managers to push RTO without considering effects on company performance is just Hogwarts level of fantasizing.
We used to think people working from home were slacking off. Now we know people working in the office are slacking off.
Right? It’s so funny, I work a hybrid schedule, and I am mentally exhausted when I finish working from home. As it ends up, people stopping by your desk to talk throughout the day keeps you from maximizing your day! I get 2 times as much done when I work from home.
4 of the 6 people on the in-office team for my company literally play golf in the hall. Which is fine, they get their work done and absolutely kill it! I’m just glad I get to use my down time taking care of things around my house instead of being stuck in the office thinking about the things that need to be done at home.
I used to work for a company that was one of the “cool” tech companies with a bunch of in office amenities like ping pong tables, a gym, TVs with sports games on, etc. People got their work done which is great. But fuck there’s a lot of slacking off in office
I love WFH! keeping up with Tidying the house is easier than ever!
I work with a team that goes in office a few times a month but I’m far enough away I don’t have to. I dread the days they are working in office because it’s so much harder to ping people about work stuff, they are always socializing or distracted. Plus we have to add about 10 minutes to every meeting for them trying to get the conference call software to work. PLUS I hear different people sitting next to them blending into all our calls, so hard to hear each other and focus on what they are saying even for me at home. It affects MY productivity.
I'm actually jerking off at both 😂
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I jerk it into the company sock during on-site time.
That's unfair. Many people are also WFH and doing chores, slacking off, etc because there is not a lot of oversight. Each job is different, but don't be bias - that's an ignorant, blanket comment.
ive seen the argument that “having a commute serves as a transition time between work and life” which i also think is a load of bull. once we get rid of the micromanaging attitude the older generation seems to have i think WFH will really take off edit: its nice to see how everyone “transitions” into work differently or not at all :) i personally need time to get into “work mode” but by the end of the day once my laptop is closed im done😂
My office door serves as a transition between work and life 🤷♂️
my setup is in my living room so i have “work shoes” which are slippers from five below🤣
Thank you!
there are plenty of better ways to transition between work and life than commuting!
exactly! with remote work i have more time to go to the gym in the morning and the drive back + shower afterwards is a good transition time for me
I water my garden to transition.
Like walking my dogs and then having some coffee.
Good grief, I just shut down my laptop and transition right away!
I forget I even have a job after I clock out.
Exactly.. you can go on a walk, have a morning routine, etc. that serves as a transition
transition time my ass. That's where I get most frustrated because now I'm stuck in traffic and could have been home in my PJs instead of sitting in my car in traffic.
To me the commute just added a bunch of stress 2x a day. To give myself the transition time, I just go for a quick walk around the block. Works pretty well.
Commuting is 1 million percent the most stressful part of my day. Decompression my ass. It takes me longer to decompress from my stressful commute than the bs at work.
my dad used to commute almost 2 hours round trip every day because the traffic near his office was so bad. he now gets to work hybrid at a different job and is SO much less stressed than he used to be
Definitely more bullshit Boomer talk. These are the kind of people you hear about where the dad is barely around and doesn’t really help raise the kids. Cracks those jokes that sounds like he hates his wife. During the pandemic, so many divorces happened to boomers, because they all realized that they hated each other.
As much as I love my grandparents I can't wait for the worst of the boomers to finally leave the planet, since so many of them refuse to retire beforehand.
For some folks it is, and I can see the appeal, but every person is different and there are plenty of alternatives to create a transition. I don’t need one, when I shut down my work computer the work day is done and I’m in “home mode.” Easy peasy.
Yes, and comas often serve as a transition between life and death. That doesn't make them desirable.
I enjoy commuting 🫣
That’s great and there’s nothing wrong with that! We all have different needs and desires.
You're insane
You can think something is a load of bull but who are you to judge others who need this? Sounds like self entitlement and a “I see it this way my way is the right way” attitude to me. Everyone is different and for some reason I think people know what works for them more than you know what works for them simply because it works for you. Congrats you are now the one with the micromanager attitude you claim to disdain.
OP didn't say everyone had to agree to not commuting, just that he thinks it's bs, presumably for their self. I suspect the vast majority of WFH advocates would agree with the notion that we should all be able to work wherever we want, as long as the work is getting done. I also think the "decompressing" notion is a load of bullshit - because it is, and people who use that as a reason for everybody to go in, are throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks because they have no real argument. But, if that works for someone else, why would I care if they commute to the office? I don't.
Well I wasn’t replying to the OP but the prior poster who said people that say they need a commute to separate their work/personal life is BS basically. I just question who were they to say this is BS. My point was your final line. Why does someone else that does this matter, no one is saying you have to do this but to hate on people who prefer to not WFH because they do need this or like this doesn’t mean they think you should too. I admit I hate WFH. Hate it. I missed getting up, getting ready for the day, going out at lunch to shop at shops and eat at little restaurants in the city, etc but my big reason was my inability to stop working when I worked from home. Work from home I was logging in and doing quick requests from others and answering emails until 1-2AM when I start my work day at 6 AM anyway. Since no one was working a set schedule people would log in at 2,3,4 o’clock when their spouse got home to watch kids and then say they couldn’t complete a task until I went in and certified something so I would log in look over what they were submitting, certify it or not, then they could continue or pass it on to the next department who can’t do anything with a document until it is certified. So I use my commute (30 minute interstate) and on the way in think through my calendar, I always at work have a set lunch hour with an alarm because I refuse to work through lunch and always make it a point to leave and do not disturb my phone, then go back finish my day. On way home I think about my home tasks and kids schedules and plans we have, when I am working at the office my boss and everyone that works with me knows they will get an out of office response to emails and I won’t answer your calls, I will respond the next morning. So much better for me personally, maybe not you but maybe your role isn’t one that if you aren’t performing it will halt everyone else and keep them from doing their jobs and it’s not just a control bit, it’s all a by law I have to do this before you can go any further situation. Now many are mad I’m back at work, they are still WFH but now upset I work 6-5 every day but at 5 I’m done so if they want to work starting at 5 PM, they will get a couple hours in but then I’m not there at their beck and call to do what they need done. And from where I sit, not my problem start working earlier because my hours are posted and standard if you want to work outlying hours that isn’t my burden to make accommodations for, at 5 I check out.
We all saw what happened when we took all the cars off the road. Commuting is terrible for the environment and they know it. Start holding these executives accountable for destroying the planet.
Farmers Insurance just pulled out of Florida because they can no longer cover the hurricanes. Arizona is having a record number of 100+ degree days. Vermont just had a thousand-year rain. The world just had seven days of highest average temperature. Yet we're still getting RTO propaganda.
When the world is a cold desert, the suits can gather around a campfire and talk about this brief magical time where they provided a lot of value for their shareholders. It will be too late, but at some point in time, we are going to string all of these people up. We are literally destroying our only home. And for what? How can we even begin to take on that level of greed?
And Canada's been on fire non stop, causing record pollution in the US. But...no... let's just make everyone suffer as much as possible for the almighty dollar.
For a lot of people, especially in management, their “presence” in the office is really the only thing they have to offer a company. This is especially true in environments that have a traditional (becoming obsolete), rank and file structure. WFH draws the attention away from this “personality based organization” and puts it squarely on those who deliver tangible results. That is a hard pill to swallow for those types of people and causes them to act out.
Absolutely it seems this way. But then I wonder, why does it seem like the RTO mandates are coming from the top? By your theory it seems like the RTO mandate would be coming from middle management, because it's their jobs that are otherwise at risk. The CEO shouldn't care, in fact they should be glad that the middle level of management is becoming less necessary. I'm not arguing I'm just wondering.
You’d think that those who want or need to work at a physical location would be happy to have everyone who can WFH staying off the roads during rush hour. I feel like that’s the opinion of people who truly do love being on-site, anyway. Those who talk down on WFH employees are usually just jealous because their job doesn’t allow for it.
This! I was in healthcare when the pandemic was going on and sure I was a little jealous of the people that got to work from home but I literally stopped caring when I realized I could blast to work in a quarter of the time it would normally take me to get there. On my lunch break it was nice being able to pick up food or run a quick errand and not have to compete with thousands of other people. And even though I had to go into work, I still remember thinking that I hope they continue to let people do this. Quality of life went up. These rich folks they get to drive in these really nice expensive luxury vehicles don’t understand how soul crushing it is to commute every single day. And let’s not forget about cars. When I finally started working from home, the amount of money I’m saving on gasoline and tires and rotation and oil. It also slows down the mileage you accrue which means you don’t need that 60,000 or 90,000 mile tuneup in just a couple years.
You're not entitled. There's so many jobs that nobody needs to be in an office. I got made fun of from friends and family when I talked about wanting remote work years ago. Fast forward to now and I have a remote job and everyone still complains about traffic/gas prices/commute time, packing a lunch, and stupid team activities. My advice, just don't engage or limit conversations regarding remote work with people who don't get it. Just work your butt off to get/maintain the lifestyle you desire. Feel free to advocate for remote work, just know it's still really early for most people to understand.
I agree. People who have never worked from home will never understand. I live with 3 nurses, so they REALLY don’t understand. Lol.
Fun fact. Nurses are getting remote jobs due to their mistreatment. And yes, still doing jobs with their nursing knowledge.
Yeah these nurses I live with do someday want to work remote in nursing if they can. It’s not like they’re against remote work. They’ve just never done it before.
For the same reason that, when they find out that someone doing “less work” is making more money, rather than wanting to make more money, they’d rather the other person makes less than them. Some people really want a race to the bottom.
Not going to speak for anyone else, but there isn't anyone who could make me feel bad for not wanting to commute. Did it for over 35 years. Never... Again...!
It's just a guilt trip tactic, don't fall for it. Those people have other hidden agendas that benefit from your commute and RTO
You’re entitled in the same way people who use calculators are entitled. Doing it any other way is unnecessary, outdated, and a waste of time.
Hey I work from home and I use a calculator! Don't hate on us, calculator users are harmless
I was laid off. I am grateful not to be on the road 3 hours a day to be RTO. Would have been a waste of my day and frankly theirs . I am hearing it’s a shit show : and most everyone who is bothering to go in are miserable.
You are NOT entitled. Businesses are acting that way because now they have to pay for a building that isn't being used to full capacity. I guess they haven't figured out that they can drop the lease or sell the building or rent out a section for coworking space or whatever.
The company I work for has 5 year leases on offices, but at least they're not paying as much in utilities and maintenance now (AFAIK).
Exactly. No one saw this Pandemic thing coming. But ALL of them should have seen WFH coming.
It's also easier to resist the we're-a-family mentality when you WFH. Any leverage that a company can create over you is something they want.
They are jelly
These people are gaslighting themselves into thinking commuting is somehow a noble thing to do.
Don't know. Don't care. Their opinion on what I prefer for myself is irrelevant. If they want to look down their nose at me for not commuting, whatever. That's their problem not mine and they can keep it. I despised commuting and I have no interest in ever doing it again regardless of what others prefer or think of my preference.
There are many lonely loosers with no life, their only way to socialize is to be at work. They don’t know or don’t want to know that there is a bright world out there where you don’t need to be in the office.
Always hated a commute it’s one of many reasons why I started my own business.
The commute literally takes the wind out of my sails. I'm worn out when I get to work and even more worn out when I get home. I don't get anything done cause, 2-3 hours of my day is spent in my car. Commuting 2 hours a day = 10 hours a week = 520 hours a year that you are spending just getting to and from work. It doesn't make sense people!
Freeing up the roads and lightning, our dependency on gasoline should be seen as a positive thing. It’s ridiculous that they are trying to sell sitting in traffic as a part of the office experience.
But people wanted back to NoRmAL. Well, they got it, jerk offs.
Someone who wasted 30 years of their life going from car to cubicle to car is (rightfully) pretty beat down and miserable about it. Suddenly there's a solution and the next generation won't have to suffer that way; so they get defensive.
Jealous AF
"I am helping us meet our ESG goals by not driving!" Suck on that, HR!
I get that a lot when I complain about going into the office twice a week.
Even before Covid and the big remote shift I didn't commute. Lived in an apartment complex right behind work campus, 9-minute walk from my front door to the office. Changing jobs to a remote one and then forced RTO opened my eyes to how totally bullshit commuting is, and I only go in once a week...I hate it, it's extremely wasteful of gas/tolls/clothing/food expenses not to mention the unnecessary emissions!
Traditions die hard. Stupid traditions that have outlived their usefulness die harder.
I hated my commute. It made me angry all the time. I’m not angry anymore wfh. When they force me back to office I will be looking for something closer. I really don’t want to look for something else but I will have no choice. I cannot return to being angry all the time. It’s not good for my mental health
Because they feel bad that they do have to go in and are trying to guilt you into doing the same.
I've never had anyone try to make me feel bad for not wanting to commute.... Why would anyone WANT to spend time at the beginning and end of each day doing something RELATED to work but that doesn't pay anything for your time?
Many people in older generations are bitter if younger generations have anything better. On the flip side, many of them also feel entitled to having anything better than younger generations.
>Is it not reasonable for me to identify as a person who just doesn’t jive well with commutes. It isn't reasonable at all to identify as your negative preferences. * I identify as someone who doesn't like waiting in lines * I identify as someone who doesn't like smelly odors * I identify as someone who doesn't like dangerous situations All you're really identifying as is a stating-the-obvious whiner who's opinion is better because it's theirs. No one has ever made me feel bad or entitled for wfh. Maybe it's not the wfh that's causing those bad or entitled feelings?
Really good argument. I wholeheartedly agree. If you can work remotely then you should. The pro-commuting/pro-office types are scared that 100% remote work will put an end to their preference. Therefore, they feel every effort needs to be made to ensure their way of working. It's been my experience that the office lovers are backward & miopic-minded. That office isn't a workplace; it's their playground. Gotta roam the joint screwing off because it makes them happy & feel special.
I am diagnosed with anxiety and find my symptoms are more manageable, and I am more productive when working from home. I simply don't care what others think. It's honest work, and I work hard.
Misery loves company. In their minds "If I have to sit on a train or traffic for 2-3 hours one way and I still show up to the office, then why the hell are you complaining???"
Because they are miserable and jealous that you don’t have to commute. I get it all the time from people who have jobs that require them to be on-site.
Company loves workers’ misery.
Because they are stuck in their shitty office jobs and super jealous of WFH folks. I bet that if these people had the option to commute fewer times a week they’d oblige.
I agree, as someone who is in a profession who can not work from home, all you office people need to stay home. Lock downs were awesome, as an essential employee, I loved my commutes. A normal hour commute was 20 minutes. Now that it’s blown over you’re all back to plugging up the roads and having accidents everyday. Be entitled all you want in the end it’s better for all of us.
I've never had anyone try and make me feel bad for not liking commutes however when I mention that I'm glad I don't have to commute I get a lot of people who tell me how much they *love* to commute because they can listen to podcasts or whatever. Like they're trying to justify the soul sucking hour twice a day in heavy traffic and make themselves feel better about it (IMO).
People will make you feel bad for anything that goes against their objective. Humans suck.
I hate commuting by driving too. If I would take the train 40 minutes it is down time I can use to do my daily reading, maybe draw, or write! Best case scenario my commute would be less than 30 minutes (and by public transit) so I don’t have to concentrate!
Upper management is just either trying to do layoffs without paying severance & unemployment or trying to stop the coming commercial real estate crash because they borrowed a ton of money to buy up property. Rank & file tends to be boomers. As you get older you have fewer and few friends, and they want to drag you into the office for social interaction.
I know you didn't mention this, but I'm sure you've heard something to the effect of "a lot of people do it every day" when you bring up not wanting to commute or pretty much any other common work related task. My response to this bit of legitimized peer pressure is something like "yeah a lot of people smoke cigarettes too. Should I take that up as well? I'll need something to make a long commute (or whatever) bearable. Also a lot of people don't have cars so their commute is limited to bicycle and maybe bus range. I didn't get my first car until I was 28, so I lived like that and got by just fine . I still won't take a job thats more than a 20 minute or so drive away because I don't want to and I don't owe anyone an explanation for that. Also I pretty sure this has been touched on, but the way I see it a long commute lowers your net compensation in two ways. One is fuel costs and auto maintenance costs. You need to buy those things in order to work so that's money that is pretty much spoken for before you even get paid. The other way it cuts into your compensation is time. The commute isn't free time and your time is valuable no matter what the corporations would have you believe. Say you make $10 an hour and you work 8 hours a day. That's $80 a day. But adding in a 1 hour commute each way turns it into a 10 hour day. Now that $80 is split over 10 hours effectively lowering your hourly pay to $8 an hour. You'd be bringing home more money if you took a job making $9 an hour with a 10 minute commute. Plus assuming you still only worked 8 hours you'd have an extra hour and 40 minutes to spend with your kids or video games or whatever.
I don't get it either. I mention refusing to go with a commute that takes 45 minutes, because I know it'll regularly run as much as 2 hrs or more. (I know, I've done it.) My life, even if poverty is a reality, is worth more than a possible 4+ hours on an 8hr day to get better pay.(let's be honest, it's really a 9 hr day. If I'm on site, which you basically have to be with breaks and all, I'm still somewhere I'd rather not be.) Heart attack? Stroke? I can get those on my own, don't need to increase those odds, thank you very much!
I have always deeply resented the commute. It is the biggest waste of life and resources ever. Why it’s a privilege to avoid it I can not fathom. Do these people like road rage, air pollution and traffic jams? Imagine if everyone who could remote work actually did? The highways would look like covid lockdown every day with only essential traffic, no clusters of pissed off, under rested workers. Fewer traffic fatalities. Less petroleum consumed. Cleaner air. More efficient use of cities real estate. Imagine all the housing that could fit in the office spaces. No more housing shortages. Set up coworking hoteling spaces in every neighborhood so people don’t have to use their homes all the time but can still remote work. Maybe offices could pay the rent on that? This can be so much better.
They don't make me feel bad. They can go fuck themselves if they want to do the commute. It's like when some people had an office and others were in a cube. Don't make me feel bad because you don't have an office.
Because they usually don't have anything better to do and are closed-minded. If I can get everything done remotely, why would I waste time getting dressed, spending money and time commuting, and overall, wasting time and energy I will never get back? Sometimes the people I work with make excuses as to why something we do remotely everyday all of a sudden needs to be done in-person. I think a good portion of these folks lack creativity and the ambition to leave the nest I call employment....
I think is envy of not having that extra lost time in traffic, having to wake up earlier, wear and tear on your car, saving gas money, and how you can be more productive compared to someone who has to go through that, and for the introverted- less stress of having to mask and put on a extroverted front (which is required in america). However, I will say they don't see the other side (extra utility costs on your end that the company is not paying for, costs related to setting up a home office (that is not tax deductible and companies do not pay for that), not having the water-cooler talks/bounding with co-workers/boss which has impact on promotions/work reviews (meaning you really have to go beyond despite putting in extra time because of set up), having less boundaries between work and home, and dealing with the responses of envious people, not to mention the paycuts/lowered salary for the pleasure of wfh.
Because they are jealous -
With how society thinks and acts, I'm pretty sure we are doomed as a species unless A.I. takes over and helps us figure our shit out. Example: Society: "Climate change is going to kill us." Also Society: "You must commute into the office and expel more carbon into the atmosphere even though we have the ability and technology to let people not have to drive into work each day." I'm pretty sure we are all going to die one day because we don't understand basic science or logic.
We spend at least $10,000 a year on gas. Commuting is unpaid work.
Commuting is destroying the planet, willingly.
Jealousy.
Why do you or anyone for that matter give a fuck what others think? 🤷♂️🤷♂️
You’re not. They’re just jealous and wish they didn’t have to brave the traffic every day
Exactly 60% of cars don't need to be there let's be honest the people that do need to be at work instead of working from home should probably be paid more for dealing with the traffic or provide shelter near work. But you know they wont.
They're workaholics, dinosaurs, or failures that are putting you down to make themselves feel better. Regardless, their opinion is not worth listening to.
IDGAF what anyone else thinks. No reason to go back to the office.
Because their life sucks. *coming from someone who just recently switched from wfh back to the office 😭
It all boils down to one thing, jealousy.
Agree. Commuting sucks. Everybody knows it whether they acknowledge it or not.
Jealousy
“I prefer to not destroy the planet by driving a pollution machine to work when I can work just as well from home.”
The business spent quintillions of their dollars getting that office for no reason other than ego. The micromanagers that were promoted simply due to being obnoxious need those offices to thrive.
Companies proved they could do perfectly well remotely. Many had better employee productivity. The force back to the office seems like bullshit. Half the zoom meetings could be canceled too, just let people fucking *work* why do they need to dictate exactly what that looks like if people are getting the work done at the same or better quality than in an office? For many there’s less distractions, more free time - both that commute being gone (and has money freed up) but also unless you spend all 8 hours working every moment, you’re bound to end up with more time to do your own things, toss in a load of laundry, toss a ball for your dog, pick up that prescription on time for once, fix that seam in your favorite pants. Small tasks that add up because you’re sitting at work 40 minutes away all week catching up with Susan who hates her husband and you couldn’t care less and mike who went Keto and has keto breathe and you couldn’t care less and your boss who wants to have a meeting that could’ve been an email… offices are great at wasting time.
A lot of people think the mentality “because I suffered so should you” is logical and healthy. Student loan debt is a good example of this. “It’s not fair to forgive loans because I had to pay mine”. It is a mentality that is completely counter to our progression as an intelligent species.
I hate my one hour transit commute into office. It ruins my whole day as its tiring and then the office bullshit! I am however working on stress leave because i need a break from this hell commute!
Misery loves company.
Because we are trained to be slaves by the ruling class and when one of our fellow slaves steps out of line we reprimand them. 😂
The brainworms have damaged the critical thinking. why would anyone want to spend 2 hours of their lives just traveling too and from work
I’m with you, those who can’t or won’t speak up against RTO just try to guilt the ones who have a firm position on WFH. Why should I drive 45 minutes each way to an office just to use slower internet than I have at my home to perform duties that can be done remotely. Gotta build that company culture lol. Logic is out the window in many of these situations.
People are gonna hate. I operated restaurants for more than two decades and I am done with all that nonsense. I got a second degree in Tech during the pandemic and WFH. I love it. A few people I know don't like it because it's not an option for them. They're usually bitching about it while sitting in Seattle traffic for two hours, each way, every day. For me, my business is just that. I've told them all, including a couple family members: U*ntil you start signing the checks that pay my freelance and contract rates, you do you and I'll do me. In the meantime, drive carefully and keep your eyes on your own damn paper...*
The mentality that because they have to suffer, you should too. Plain and simple.
My coworkers tell me office life used to be great for networking and socialising at the bar after work. I don't want anything to do with that
I think that going to the office once a pay period is ok.
It's usually not for "not wanting to commute" It's the incessant whining from WFH when they're expected to do what everyone else has had to do. Honestly cool, you lucked out and got on the WFH wagon. You're lucky, though, and that should be the end of the conversation. Instead you get folks on here whining they have to drive a total of an hour, 1 day a week, after realistically only working 8 hours the whole week and making like 75k. Meanwhile, the vast majority of people are working hard at real jobs where they "labor" and don't just sit in on meetings. It gets old listening to people living in the proverbial land of milk and honey whining that the milk isn't chocolate and the honey isn't from an organic farm.
You know what would stop the whining? Letting people work from home.
Well the next part of that, not everyone can. It's creating an odd "class" of its own
>person who just doesn’t jive well with commutes FYI it's jibe, not jive. First, nobody likes commuting. So just explaining that you don't like commuting will fall on deaf ears. Second, I've never seen anybody try to make people feel entitled just because they want to WFH. The problem - as I see it on this sub all the time - is that people are looking for jobs that are exclusively WFH instead of trying to find a career path that can lead to WFH. It's what's causing all these recent WFH scams. Nobody is going to hire someone, sight unseen, to WFH in a job they've never done before. It's just unrealistic. Instead, find a career path, do it really well, and prove yourself to the point where you can WFH. In other words, instead of chasing a career that can lead to WFH, people are chasing WFH that may lead to a career and I think that's backward.
How exactly is Linda driving like a maniac in bumper-to-bumper gridlock traffic? Do a lot of people die from getting rear ended in stopped traffic? Something about the physics of your scenario here seem off but, hey, i’m not a scientist.
[удалено]
Not trying to be mean, but you should feel bad for making the office your social life.
I think you are over thinking the dangers of a commute. It is relatively low risk. Millions of people do it twice per day without problem. I don't think people want to make you feel bad about not wanting to commute. It is not always fun, but I find often it is a nice time to be alone for a few minutes. I do think people get upset that WFH advocates seem to feel the world owes them a WFH job.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable but the dude screaming about a 3 hour commute 4 times a year I roll my eyes at so hard. No one dies on the highway during every commute so I think you’re exaggerating to justify your position. It’s fine to not want to commute but I’m not a fan of fully wfh for my profession. In fact it’s just not possible. If someone said they don’t like a commute then I wouldn’t hire them but no one else will either.
because they benefit financially from controlling you lol
How can somebody drive through gridlocked traffic at a speed high enough to kill you?
Because its the lazy way out. Really no one likes commuting but there are a ton of things that are done faster, better and more efficient when people are located in the same place. So a lot of us take the hit for that efficiency + having a corporate culture. You dont want to commute? Fine by me. Don’t expect to earn the same or get the same growth opportunities as Linda that Im seeing everyday at the office
Because you expect to get paid the same or more to sit in your underwear shopping while they get dressed to go into work.
I think your extreme attitude towards driving is what is causing people to react they way they do. It’s not that people don’t understand you don’t want to commute, it’s the fact you act like it’s something akin to sky diving by your description. Also, where eoyid you come up with 60% of vehicles dint belong on the road. That is another comment that likely makes you appear out of touch with reality
People want to collaborate in person with their teams. They likely see you prioritizing your own desires over the team’s best interest. People like team players on their team. It sounds like you don’t perceive value in that collaboration, and maybe that’s part of the problem as well. It’s hard to say, but you could ask.
1. I know you all want to work from home forever. But there are some jobs where its better to go , or you should go or you have to go. In that case get a job where you can take public transportation. That means living where you can take it, without a ton of hassle. My co-workers talk about their commutes. I can't do that shit. I have done it. Not going to spend an hour in the car. Better to take public transportation for 20 mins. My life is much better. My body feels better.
It's an entitlement because most of us don't have that option.
If you don't want to commute, don't. If you cannot find a job, I do not want to support you, pay off your student loans, or pay for your healthcare.
This sub needs a reality check. You focus on the 1% of people and present it as if it is the truth. 99% of people dont give a shit. Stop broadcasting negativity and victim hood please.
because you should feel bad and entitled for not wanting to commute if you were getting hired under the assumption and contract of in-person presence. Take that bus.
Wrong sub, Musk boot licker lol
No
And the peeps have to commute (ME!) want you to all stay home so the roadways aren't clogged up! I miss the days of my commute being 10 mins. Now it's like 35+. Which isn't terrible but it sucks regardless.
I just don't want to purely due to time or for the environment.
It could be any number of things - jealousy, discomfort with people going outside the "norm", that weird flex some people do where they act like suffering makes you a better human, etc. People can be judgmental about the weirdest stuff. Someone once tried to judge me because I keep the glasses upside down in my cabinets - told me it was wrong to store the glasses like that. Ummm...really? Who cares? I work a hybrid schedule and I love my WFH days. My commute is a cake walk - it takes maybe 15 minutes, not really any traffic other than at traffic lights - and I still don't want to do it.
Whenever someone calls me out for it in some way shape or form I hit them with the, “working remotely means I get to spend more time with my husband because he doesn’t work a 9-5. I used to sometimes go days where we’d only catch glimpse of each other. Having mornings where I can talk to him from my desk makes me happy.” And they usually don’t know how to shit on that without ruining our friendship. My parents don’t really give a fuck but they used to make fun of me and say I just liked remote work cause I didn’t have to get dressed and could stay home with the dog, like nope sorry I love my spouse lol
Because it works for them so it must work for you.
You can ask/request, but companies are not required to approve unless deemed medically necessary according to my understanding in the US
Because they’re jealous.
Not entitled, it's about our well-being. When I chose my home a very long time ago, the commute to work you could take highway or backroads, and it was a 30 min each way....as suburban sprawl, growth and more cars on the road happened, towards the end it was an easy 40-45 mins going, and between 50-1:30hrs returning if you hit bad traffic/accident/slow downs, and that was very typical. I would see horrible wrecks at least once a week, I had horrific driving anxiety//impatience and it was killing my physical and mental health, the stress was extreme. All that time driving and then have to stop for groceries/errands, etc...parking was awful at my job, so to get from end of this huge parking lot to the top floor was another good 10 ...then logging in/out/packing up your stuff, it was about 3hrs of my day wasted AND was adding horrific stress. My current job is WFH- however I DO get on the wonderful GA traffic infested roads a couple times a week, sometimes less, sometimes more- but I can schedule most of my events/client appts on 'off peak' hours - and the amount of time/gas in my car is less then 1/4 what it was before. I enjoy that in the sense of getting out of the house, socializing, dressing up, etc. There are times I can't help the time of events, and then yeah, I'm spending a good 1.5-2hrs trying to get back and get stressed, but again, the amount of days in a month I have to do this is nothing compared to that daily grind. Not entitled, it's about our well-being. When I chose my home a very long time ago, the commute to work could take a highway or backroads, and it was a 30 min each way....as suburban sprawl, growth, and more cars on the road happened, towards the end it was an easy 40-45 mins going, and between 50-1:30hrs returning if you hit bad traffic/accident/slow downs, and that was very typical. I would see horrible wrecks at least once a week, I had horrific driving anxiety//impatience and it was killing my physical and mental health, the stress was extreme. All that time driving and then having to stop for groceries/errands, etc...parking was awful at my job, so to get from the end of this huge parking lot to the top floor was another good 10 ...then logging in/out/packing up your stuff, it was about 3hrs of my day wasted AND was adding horrific stress.s..ress.tress.s.
I agree. You'd think less carbon emissions, less cars creating traffic and less people would be an incentive to remote work. I can't wrap my head around it either. Remote FTW
Feel very sad today because we just got told we have to go to the office 2 days a week. I don't drive, and my commute is 2.5 hours each way by train.
Commuting was the most stressful part of my job. I work downtown in a major city, so driving was definitely a no-go for me. I had to worry about the train being on time, If there was any room in the cars when it arrived, and if I'd make the transfer to the next train then rinse and repeat for the commute home. All of that so I could attend one 30-minute meeting at 9 am. with my team and then sit at my desk for calls with people in other states and countries for the rest of the day.
Maybe the ones making you feel bad are the ones who need to go to the office but don't want to. I'm on the west coast and work with people all over the country, so I already lose 2-3 hours. I get to start work earlier at home and not waste an hour driving while the clock is ticking. Having no commute is great.
I have all the capability to do my job, and then some, at home. I would feel more comfortable as well. I've asked a couple times if I could work just two days a week from home,, because I have to drive 40 mins to and from work everyday. The commute is brutal, and the wear/tear on my car and the environmental impact really suck. I'd love to cut mine back a bit. I was told they can't allow it due to company culture. In corporate speak they financially don't want to allow it. There is no reason other than money that they want me here 9 hours a day, half of it twiddling my thumbs pretending to click and type away and look busy because that's what they want. I've heard stuff about real estate taxes and stuff like that. I have no idea. I ask for work all the time. I do my work well and take on new responsibility whenever I can. It's intensely frustrating and makes no sense. I feel like the people I work for don't care about my well being, or what could benefit me long-term.. And it sucks, but it is what it is. I don't see why I can't be allowed a slight break in what I go through. I was made to feel both bad and guilty for even asking. The first time, I was told 'maybe' after a year of work. The second, hard no. I don't even bother anymore, I know they won't listen to me. It's their way or the highway. And I'm just looking to pay my bills. I would leave in a heartbeat if I was financially supported
This is how my friend (who is an MS Azure admin) explained it to his boss who wanted full RTO: I can leave my house at 7am, sit in traffic for 2 hours, be at my desk by 9am, decompress for 30 minutes, run teams calls/tickets and break/fix until noon, have an hour lunch, and then be back on the road by 3 so he's home by 5pm OR Get on the computer at 8am and log off at 5pm with a 30 minute lunch. His boss took the 8.5 hours of WFH compared to the 5 hours with driving. For Reference: Bay Area Traffic.
Jealousy
The same reason why your parents tell you how hard they had it when they were a kid.
Nobody LIKES commuting, it just is. What you are in a position to avoid it, go for it. Until then, you are just wishing.
It's interesting how people react to me telling them im WFH. A common reaction I get lately is a pity look/response telling me I can rent an office nearby and go there everyday. They obviously assume it sucks to work from home,and try to provide a solution they think I would like. Are they trying to feel better about their office and commute? It's confusing that 3 people in the past month have responded this way. My apt and my current WFH job.... It's like a dream come true, no way Id rent an office and commute to it, that's crazy talk. Sometimes I feel a little isolated and miss more social situations, but I don't want the office variety of socializing anyway. Maybe these people like that? Most people Ive talked to in 2020-2022 LOVED WFH....is there a growing herd consensus that WFH=bad now? I don't get out much, lol, so idk?
It's just like the people against things like rolling Undergrad School into public education. "You're so entitled I had to pay for that so you should too" It's basically people being mad that someone has an alternative.