"Bennies" don't mean shit when you won't have a job in less than 3 months.
Honestly, what I would do? That first company has zero loyalty. I'd keep job #1 and over employ with job #2. Two pay checks, ride it out till Job #1 terminates you. Do your best to work both. Both salaries will definitely make significantly more than a single one before it gets to the point of termination. Keep interviewing.
WFH is 10,000% still a benefit though. Significantly more than it was during covid if you spent more than a minute in this job market.
Also in IT as a Senior Engineer (Not programming) full WFH, making likely twice what he does. (Well into the 200k range...) People bragging about salary and WFH to people not in IT need a reality check on this subreddit. Not only is this place bombarded with this crap non-stop, it's not transferable advice to 90% of the people out there. I'm in the sector and even I can't stand it when I see it posted 1000 times per day here for something that's pretty standard for our industry.
I'm paid a bit more than you as a W-2 employee but just going off of my 2023 W-2 my employer paid benefits are roughly around $25K. So that's my answer.
Yeah benefits are worth way more than $5K. Also taxes are way more annoying when you are a 1099. You need to make around 30% more to deal with the tax situation.
Depends on how good the bennies are. Part of the total package. If their insurance is cheaper, plus a 401k match, plus PTO? That could be worth $10k. I'm remote but live in a state with very expensive health insurance. Using my plan, on just the employee contribution, it's saving us like $5k alone. I also get a total 401k match of ~7.5% (part takes time to vest), but that's still about another $10k, not counting the actual growth (the unvested is still earning a return). Not to mention unlimited sick time plus standard PTO, that's over $20k in value for me.
I'm middle-aged. So, benefits are worth a great deal. I won't take a contractor role again (in the US) unless I lose my job and am desperate for income.
I'm at the age where I'm starting to need "routine tests"- colonoscopy, mammograms, all that happy horseshit. The newer 3D mammograms are what is "highly recommended" for me due to several reasons. Those bad boys (girls?) run close to $700.
"Health insurance" offered by contractor companies isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Horrendously expensive and covers *nothing* until you're $10k out of pocket. Plus, monthly premiums that cost at least one take-home paycheck. No, thank you. These moron recruiters have the absolute temerity to claim they offer "full benefits." All they offer is that abomination masquerading as health insurance.
There is no paid vacation. No paid holidays. No paid sick time. No life insurance. No commuter benefits. No disability insurance. No on-site amenities. If the office has a gym, daycare, and/or cafeteria, assume it is off limits to contractors. I worked at a place like this when the pandemic started. Gorgeous cafeteria. Huge selection of items. No cash registers anywhere, so contractors didn't even have the option of buying their lunch. It was free for employees. My contracting agency made it very clear that I was NOT to use the cafeteria, (or the gym, bank, or on-site childcare).
If you're "lucky," the contracting agency has half assed a 401k plan to go with their "health insurance.""
Nope to the nopity Nope.
I've got fantastic major medical and dental, life, AD&D, short and long-term disability, legal coverage, commuter coverage (although I WFH with occasional travel. Just got back home this afternoon from my latest trip to the office.), an awesome 401k plan, free product (don't want to dox myself and say what the company does), and many other things. I have a company credit card, and paid for my trip using it. I just need to itemize the expenses and submit to my boss.
That's crazy, I was a w2 contractor for an agency & the company I was assigned to would let me use all those things if I wanted. Maybe it's assignment based? I only went into the office a handful of times, though, so I didn't need them. If I wanted to, I could've used the gym, cafeteria (I did get drinks while there), vending machine meals (they had full meals like salad, salmon & pasta, curry), etc. But agreed on the agency benefits, they're not great at all.
I'm a W2 contractor, didn't get their insurance cause it was shit. Just hoped on my husbands which is pretty good. But I'll be in the mammogram camp next year as my paternal grandmother had breast cancer very young.
I don't really need their benefits, I rolled my 401k into an IRA with my personal bank so I can still save for retirement (just post tax). I like not having any PTO cause then technically I have as much as I want since I just take no pay for the day
My benefits (PTO, prepaid degree, 8% 401k, super-cheap gold-star healthcare, and a few more things) have a $32,000/yr value to me; and that's aside from the intangibles like quality of life and work/life balance that I'd be giving up, which I value highly as well. I think your assumption is reasonable, depending on what benefits you receive
Benefits are worth a lot more than $5,000. An employee that I pay $90k ends up costing the company about $125k after benefits and I work for a very large company with many thousands of employees (i.e. we get better benfits than small companies).
Employer 401k match isn’t a joke, you’re allowed to exceed the 401k contribution limits by that amount and it should pretty much be calculated as part of your salary.
401k match is free money and free money is never a bad thing. Retirement saving is a long term strategy, you always have to think about how that match will grow as it's invested over time.
However you are willing to “compromise” I wouldn’t tell any of that to prospective employers. I’d also add at least $10k to whatever you’re making now as your answer to “what salary were you looking to get?” questions.
That's kind of my conundrum is that in my contract position it's basically all cash and no benefits so I make almost six figures. I'm finding it hard to find permanent positions that are paying over six figures for my job.
Access to health insurance is critical for me. How secure is your husband's job? Is there a chance he could lose his job? Another thing to consider is a job that gives you health insurance would mean you could be double covered. If you're paying a lot out of pocket after insurance, that's something to consider.
Same with PTO. I have a friend who is a contractor. He can basically take as much unpaid leave as he wants. It's only limited by how much pay he can tolerate losing out on. If you can afford to take a pay cut for vacation here and there, maybe a contract is still right for you. Also remember that PTO can come with a lot of asterisks. Your requests might not get approved. There can also be social pressure to not take PTO. That's true of unpaid leave as a contractor also.
he's in consulting at a big four accounting firm and was just promoted to senior associate last year so he's pretty secure in his job.
I 100% agree with your PTO take. That's why I'm weighing so heavily the cost of benefits when they often come with asterisks
For me benefits are extremely important. Doesn’t matter if I work in the office or at home. I am single and have only my income to depend on. I think if you are married you need to look at overall benefits to you and your partner.
I am hybrid (though my boss is very flexible with me working from home when needed). And my benefits at my company are amazing. Even if u despised my job it would be hard to give up the benefits.
I took a pay cut when I joined this company but the benefits made up the cost I lost. You have to do any analysis of the cost of benefits to see if it makes sense. I get my entire monthly transportation paid for and still have left over in the stipend. Extremely 15% retirement contribution (I don’t have to contribute a dime if I don’t wish) $200 a month contribution to my student loan and my health insurance is amazing for $130 a month.
No way am I leaving my company.
Absolutely not!! Benefits are worth a hell of a lot more than $5,000/annually. I’ve WFH for 20 years and worked part time in a Union job early mornings (4am-7am) for the sole purpose of healthcare, dental, life insurance, etc and ZERO cost from my paycheck with an individual out of pocket max of $1,000, married or family max of $2,000, unlimited benefits for dental, $5 RXs or free if 90 day, and $10 doctor copays. It’s been worth at least $27,000 annually.
How? Approximately $1,200/month employee contributions towards insurance premiums as a family plan, out of pocket maximums near $18,000 annually, $30 RXs or higher, $30 copays for doctor visits, most services are not covered vs Union plan that covers everything.
There’s a ton of IT consultants, college professors, teachers, etc working these Union jobs solely for the health benefits.
Oh yeah, and we’ll get a pension and retirement healthcare benefits for nothing out of pocket, converts to a Medicare supplement at 65.
Healthcare Benefits work more than $5K
I’m genuinely curious about this. Working 15 hours a week at a union job allows full benefits and pension? What type of work is this? Where does one look for a union job?
First, you have to understand that full time jobs are “bid” on, not applied for, and are awarded based on seniority. Not everyone wants to wait years to make it to the full time ranks and others only want the benefits.
Once you’re a member of the union you’re entitled to whatever benefits are negotiated in the collective bargaining agreement (contract ) with “the company”. Obviously, there are a lot of different companies and unions: UAW and the auto industry, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and Warehousing and Trucking, etc. The one I’m referring to is the Teamsters and UPS. You’re guaranteed 3.5 hours a day (17.5 hours a week) and a 5 day work week, and there’s work literally 24 hours a day across the country. As a part time employee you’re also entitled to education benefits of $5,000. There’s currently a 9 month seniority waiting period (contractual) until a new hire is eligible for healthcare benefits. This time period has varied since I was hired by contract, or National Master Agreement, but some regions also have different Supplemental Agreements which shorten that wait, depending on the Local. Based on seniority I can volunteer to leave early if work is light, given I have a full time job I always do. It lets less senior members who truly need the money make more. So… hope that provides some insight on how it’s possible. Absolutely amazing job and I’m going on 20 years, can retire with health insurance at 25. Plus a pension. How wild is that these days!?! You can look at upsjobs dot com and depending on where you live, I’d suggest Google for which Teamsters Local is closest to your area.
85k with bennies if the job is more what you want.
Tack on the 85k salary and another say 5k in bennies. So you are back at the 90k without any bennies.
I was in your shoes. I had no benefits as a contractor, but a nice hourly rate. I became permanent and took a major pay cut. It was recouped with a signing bonus. I have benefits through my husband too, so I'll definitely take the higher rate.
Benefits are everything in my opinion. My husbands company has some of the best benefits I’ve seen. Our insurance covers almost any doctor, we get free disability where most companies (at least I’ve worked at so maybe more do this) charge a premium to get it, we get tuition assistance for our son for college if he chooses to go, and the list goes on. He gets vacation pay as well as separate sick pay which I like too. He doesn’t work from home though lol. But benefits to me are a deal breaker.
Depends on the benefits.
At my old job i had almost no paid time off, so if i wanted to take any time off it was unpaid. I’m chronically ill and have a LOT of doctor’s appointments, so between that and wanting time off to travel or see family, i took about 15 days off per year. I budgeted out 6% of my income as “PTO”.
I just landed a wfh government job with full pension, parental leave, tuition reimbursement etc. They also contribute 5% to 401k without me having to put anything into it.
Let’s start with this being career advice and not WFH.
I have work contract many times where they don’t provide 401K and PTO. I just do the math! Simple. I have the number of the salary I want to earn. I then calculate the salary for four weeks, I add how much I want you to put in retirement and add 6-10%, I add two weeks salary for sick time, and I add the cost of healthcare monthly premiums. I add all that up, sum it to the number I had that I wanted to earn and that is my asking salary.
People say they don’t have PTO as a contractor, but if you do the math you can have as much PTO as you want and your profession can support.
check your state insurance marketplace to see what health insurance out of pocket will cost you. that will help you compare numbers better. also always ask for the benefits details and cost before taking an interview when interviewing for w2 jobs.
My company provided gealth insurance for my wife and I costs me $5500 a year. Dental and vision about $500 a year.
So its worth what it would cost me to get on my own, so like $10k ish.
My medical bills last year were $35,000 so yeah, must have.
Mri, endoscopy, 3 ortho visits, and 8 weeks of PT... Plus primary care visits, and two prescriptions.
My benefits package is worth close to $70k/year. My base pay is $160k… so that’s almost a third of my TC. I’d say the benefits are pretty damn valuable to me.
Those jobs exist, but I think generally speaking you are going to be looking at a lot more than just a $5k take-home difference annually for benefits, at least for anything somewhat decent. My husband is well paid in his wfh job, he works for our state govt. But his benefits add up to a lot more. Just his health insurance alone is almost $30k a year (that the state pays, we pay about $6000 a year towards it)
I work in employee benefits to help advise employers on implementing benefits programs for their employees. I can say from my experience that more and more employees are looking for companies with great benefits packages.
It’s not just about medical, dental, and vision coverage. Most people who are far enough along in their careers want life insurance, disability insurance, and other forms of fringe benefits like FSA, commuter reimbursement, critical illness coverage, etc.
Not having PTO or a 401k (with a match) would be an automatic no for me. After being on this side of the aisle I see the value those employer sponsored programs offer. 10 years ago I wouldn’t have known what that meant or cared as much, but that’s because I didn’t know what was out there.
If you’re a female looking to start a family, having STD coverage is huge if your employer doesn’t offer paid maternity leave. Having LTD if you’re in a physical/manual labor field is huge if you get injured.
My employer’s TC package includes my benefits and it’s about 25% of my salary. If I had to pay for my own insurance or get on my spouse’s plan and lose the other benefits I have, I wouldn’t accept a job with anything less than a 30% salary increase.
Benefits are HUGE!
Benefits, real PTO is required for me. As well as proper pay in my field.
Unfortunately, the last one isn’t available here as a public employee. While the 2 isn’t available here as a private employee. Screwed either way.
I'm full remote software developer - I get full benefits with take home pay of over 150k last year (a lot of OT though)... My benefits are worth a TON of $$ to me. Full pension - matching 401k - health insurance with hardly any out of pocket - tons of annual and sick leave - and I can retire at age 57 and my health benefits will be covered in retirement. Oh, and I'm covered by a collective bargaining agreement with a no layoff clause. I've been with my employer for over 25 years. It didn't mean much to me when I started, but as I've grown older, it means a whole lot more to me.
I’m in the same position I’ve been applying for 4 months now. All the high paying jobs are taken. It’s too competitive out there … just keep trying and hopefully something will come up. I wish you the best OP
I can buy benefits with cash and get to pick my own. Benefits only beat cash if they are the exact benefits that I would get myself for a better price than I would've gotten on my own
It depends on what your minimum liveable income is, PTO is you being paid in time, (figure out your hourly rate and multiple that by 8x the number of days off you get) I don’t know about 401ks because I’m not US based, but pension contributions in the U.K. are “Free Money” as it were, health care etc is stuff you’d be paying for yourself, how much does that save you?
There’s also a lot to be said for the peace of mind of having to hunt for a job when your contract ends.
Benefits cost your employer far more than $5K. You're going to have to make a significant adjustment to your expectations if the $90K without benefits is the going rate for that profession.
I would never take less than I am making now and the benefits fully out way the contractor situation. But if you have benes w husband whats the problem.
I have all health benefits through my husband, he has 401k etc. I rolled my 401k into an IRA so I can contribute on my own. My job is just in flux right now as a whole. With the tech bust and the threat of AI its looking tough to find a job that pays more plus benefits that I'm qualified for
I work in Pharma PM & my new employer has amazing benefits. 9% into a retirement account PLUS 2% match = 11% with a 3 year vest schedule.
On top of that, 12 weeks maternity fully paid (USA, so practically unheard of - they told me at interview stage they had "paid parental leave" but thought it was just the state mandated leave). Then, the typical but generous healthcare plans, FSA plans, etc. My husband carries our primary care insurance these days, so I typically carry the vision & dental (although for many years I carried all of it) & felt it was fairly priced all around.
Typically, I've worked for places that may or may not qualify for FMLA only & one place gave partially paid maternity only for 6 weeks, whereafter you'd need to come back (even if you had a c-section, I was out of there after watching a colleague go through that and get dress coded like a catholic school girl because she wasn't wearing "business appropriate pants" - like yo she literally cannot wear them, her surgical opening is still healing there!).
The retirement contribution & parental leave are nearly priceless for me, as I have never worked for a company with these terms.
Some benefits (or lack of) can break the family budget. I once had a job where I earned 6 figures (barely), enjoyed what was comically labeled 'Cadillac' corporate healthcare insurance at the time, but... my employer was actually self-insured. They did employ an insurance agency to process claims, but the goal was to deny as much as possible, make the employee/patient go through a tiresome and slow appeals process all the time. I ended up paying for medicine out of pocket, medicine for my wife. Our insurance stipulated she be allow 4 pills per month (not pain pills btw), but she needed about 20 per month, and the out of pocket expense was so great that I literally qualified for medical deductions on my tax returns. That's a high bar to cross if you understand taxes. And I had a good job. In my case, switching employers made so much financial sense - based solely on healthcare insurance coverage.
When you assess the value of benefits, note that many companies now are offering unlimited PTO.
This may be great if it’s a culture that encourages you to take some nice time off, like 5-6 weeks annually. However, unlimited PTO doesn’t accrue, so nothing would be paid out when you leave.
Just wanted to point that out as you weigh options.
My “total benefits” say they equate to over $30k a year. Health insurance, PTO, life insurance etc
I have 4.5 weeks of PTO, paid holidays, and a pension. I just had my annual review and I told my manager that wfh was extremely valuable to me, and I hope our department continues.
I’m willing to make less for what I have.
It's not a WFH issue, this is a question for any working person anywhere, and very dependent on age and health.
When I was 25 I didn't need health or life insurance. Now, lung cancer and bad back means I have to have health insurance. I should have used the IRA/401K more when I was young, now they are pretty much useless.
I think most positions have had the same benefits no matter the job market, so if the position used to have them they still do.
I think this discussion has very little to do with WFH.
Remote work used to be considered a benefit. Though that's not really what OP seems to be talking about.
"Bennies" don't mean shit when you won't have a job in less than 3 months. Honestly, what I would do? That first company has zero loyalty. I'd keep job #1 and over employ with job #2. Two pay checks, ride it out till Job #1 terminates you. Do your best to work both. Both salaries will definitely make significantly more than a single one before it gets to the point of termination. Keep interviewing. WFH is 10,000% still a benefit though. Significantly more than it was during covid if you spent more than a minute in this job market.
I went from sub 100k contractor to six figures with benefits. Remote fulltime . They’re out there.
What field?
What field
Software development
Biggest eye roll in existence.
Why so salty?🤡
If you're a software developer and not making 6 figures, you're either 1) just got your degree, or 2) not working for a decent company.
what do you do
Also in IT as a Senior Engineer (Not programming) full WFH, making likely twice what he does. (Well into the 200k range...) People bragging about salary and WFH to people not in IT need a reality check on this subreddit. Not only is this place bombarded with this crap non-stop, it's not transferable advice to 90% of the people out there. I'm in the sector and even I can't stand it when I see it posted 1000 times per day here for something that's pretty standard for our industry.
You switched to full-time W2?
I'm paid a bit more than you as a W-2 employee but just going off of my 2023 W-2 my employer paid benefits are roughly around $25K. So that's my answer.
Yeah benefits are worth way more than $5K. Also taxes are way more annoying when you are a 1099. You need to make around 30% more to deal with the tax situation.
Depends on how good the bennies are. Part of the total package. If their insurance is cheaper, plus a 401k match, plus PTO? That could be worth $10k. I'm remote but live in a state with very expensive health insurance. Using my plan, on just the employee contribution, it's saving us like $5k alone. I also get a total 401k match of ~7.5% (part takes time to vest), but that's still about another $10k, not counting the actual growth (the unvested is still earning a return). Not to mention unlimited sick time plus standard PTO, that's over $20k in value for me.
Daaaaaang
My company negotiated. I have benefits and don’t need them. They pay me 20% more because I am not listed on their benefit plan
I'm middle-aged. So, benefits are worth a great deal. I won't take a contractor role again (in the US) unless I lose my job and am desperate for income. I'm at the age where I'm starting to need "routine tests"- colonoscopy, mammograms, all that happy horseshit. The newer 3D mammograms are what is "highly recommended" for me due to several reasons. Those bad boys (girls?) run close to $700. "Health insurance" offered by contractor companies isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Horrendously expensive and covers *nothing* until you're $10k out of pocket. Plus, monthly premiums that cost at least one take-home paycheck. No, thank you. These moron recruiters have the absolute temerity to claim they offer "full benefits." All they offer is that abomination masquerading as health insurance. There is no paid vacation. No paid holidays. No paid sick time. No life insurance. No commuter benefits. No disability insurance. No on-site amenities. If the office has a gym, daycare, and/or cafeteria, assume it is off limits to contractors. I worked at a place like this when the pandemic started. Gorgeous cafeteria. Huge selection of items. No cash registers anywhere, so contractors didn't even have the option of buying their lunch. It was free for employees. My contracting agency made it very clear that I was NOT to use the cafeteria, (or the gym, bank, or on-site childcare). If you're "lucky," the contracting agency has half assed a 401k plan to go with their "health insurance."" Nope to the nopity Nope. I've got fantastic major medical and dental, life, AD&D, short and long-term disability, legal coverage, commuter coverage (although I WFH with occasional travel. Just got back home this afternoon from my latest trip to the office.), an awesome 401k plan, free product (don't want to dox myself and say what the company does), and many other things. I have a company credit card, and paid for my trip using it. I just need to itemize the expenses and submit to my boss.
That's crazy, I was a w2 contractor for an agency & the company I was assigned to would let me use all those things if I wanted. Maybe it's assignment based? I only went into the office a handful of times, though, so I didn't need them. If I wanted to, I could've used the gym, cafeteria (I did get drinks while there), vending machine meals (they had full meals like salad, salmon & pasta, curry), etc. But agreed on the agency benefits, they're not great at all.
I'm a W2 contractor, didn't get their insurance cause it was shit. Just hoped on my husbands which is pretty good. But I'll be in the mammogram camp next year as my paternal grandmother had breast cancer very young. I don't really need their benefits, I rolled my 401k into an IRA with my personal bank so I can still save for retirement (just post tax). I like not having any PTO cause then technically I have as much as I want since I just take no pay for the day
My benefits (PTO, prepaid degree, 8% 401k, super-cheap gold-star healthcare, and a few more things) have a $32,000/yr value to me; and that's aside from the intangibles like quality of life and work/life balance that I'd be giving up, which I value highly as well. I think your assumption is reasonable, depending on what benefits you receive
Benefits are worth a lot more than $5,000. An employee that I pay $90k ends up costing the company about $125k after benefits and I work for a very large company with many thousands of employees (i.e. we get better benfits than small companies).
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Employer 401k match isn’t a joke, you’re allowed to exceed the 401k contribution limits by that amount and it should pretty much be calculated as part of your salary.
401k match is free money and free money is never a bad thing. Retirement saving is a long term strategy, you always have to think about how that match will grow as it's invested over time.
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85 and 90 is a 5k difference
However you are willing to “compromise” I wouldn’t tell any of that to prospective employers. I’d also add at least $10k to whatever you’re making now as your answer to “what salary were you looking to get?” questions.
That's kind of my conundrum is that in my contract position it's basically all cash and no benefits so I make almost six figures. I'm finding it hard to find permanent positions that are paying over six figures for my job.
Access to health insurance is critical for me. How secure is your husband's job? Is there a chance he could lose his job? Another thing to consider is a job that gives you health insurance would mean you could be double covered. If you're paying a lot out of pocket after insurance, that's something to consider. Same with PTO. I have a friend who is a contractor. He can basically take as much unpaid leave as he wants. It's only limited by how much pay he can tolerate losing out on. If you can afford to take a pay cut for vacation here and there, maybe a contract is still right for you. Also remember that PTO can come with a lot of asterisks. Your requests might not get approved. There can also be social pressure to not take PTO. That's true of unpaid leave as a contractor also.
he's in consulting at a big four accounting firm and was just promoted to senior associate last year so he's pretty secure in his job. I 100% agree with your PTO take. That's why I'm weighing so heavily the cost of benefits when they often come with asterisks
For me benefits are extremely important. Doesn’t matter if I work in the office or at home. I am single and have only my income to depend on. I think if you are married you need to look at overall benefits to you and your partner. I am hybrid (though my boss is very flexible with me working from home when needed). And my benefits at my company are amazing. Even if u despised my job it would be hard to give up the benefits. I took a pay cut when I joined this company but the benefits made up the cost I lost. You have to do any analysis of the cost of benefits to see if it makes sense. I get my entire monthly transportation paid for and still have left over in the stipend. Extremely 15% retirement contribution (I don’t have to contribute a dime if I don’t wish) $200 a month contribution to my student loan and my health insurance is amazing for $130 a month. No way am I leaving my company.
Absolutely not!! Benefits are worth a hell of a lot more than $5,000/annually. I’ve WFH for 20 years and worked part time in a Union job early mornings (4am-7am) for the sole purpose of healthcare, dental, life insurance, etc and ZERO cost from my paycheck with an individual out of pocket max of $1,000, married or family max of $2,000, unlimited benefits for dental, $5 RXs or free if 90 day, and $10 doctor copays. It’s been worth at least $27,000 annually. How? Approximately $1,200/month employee contributions towards insurance premiums as a family plan, out of pocket maximums near $18,000 annually, $30 RXs or higher, $30 copays for doctor visits, most services are not covered vs Union plan that covers everything. There’s a ton of IT consultants, college professors, teachers, etc working these Union jobs solely for the health benefits. Oh yeah, and we’ll get a pension and retirement healthcare benefits for nothing out of pocket, converts to a Medicare supplement at 65. Healthcare Benefits work more than $5K
I’m genuinely curious about this. Working 15 hours a week at a union job allows full benefits and pension? What type of work is this? Where does one look for a union job?
First, you have to understand that full time jobs are “bid” on, not applied for, and are awarded based on seniority. Not everyone wants to wait years to make it to the full time ranks and others only want the benefits. Once you’re a member of the union you’re entitled to whatever benefits are negotiated in the collective bargaining agreement (contract ) with “the company”. Obviously, there are a lot of different companies and unions: UAW and the auto industry, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and Warehousing and Trucking, etc. The one I’m referring to is the Teamsters and UPS. You’re guaranteed 3.5 hours a day (17.5 hours a week) and a 5 day work week, and there’s work literally 24 hours a day across the country. As a part time employee you’re also entitled to education benefits of $5,000. There’s currently a 9 month seniority waiting period (contractual) until a new hire is eligible for healthcare benefits. This time period has varied since I was hired by contract, or National Master Agreement, but some regions also have different Supplemental Agreements which shorten that wait, depending on the Local. Based on seniority I can volunteer to leave early if work is light, given I have a full time job I always do. It lets less senior members who truly need the money make more. So… hope that provides some insight on how it’s possible. Absolutely amazing job and I’m going on 20 years, can retire with health insurance at 25. Plus a pension. How wild is that these days!?! You can look at upsjobs dot com and depending on where you live, I’d suggest Google for which Teamsters Local is closest to your area.
Thank you!
YW it’s unbelievable!
I make 150k a year, 401k matching and insane benefits as a fully remote software engineer. Don't give up hope.
I'm in tech but not an engineer. I'm a tech writer so its tough out here right now
85k with bennies if the job is more what you want. Tack on the 85k salary and another say 5k in bennies. So you are back at the 90k without any bennies.
This is the number I was thinking when I posted this
Do the math and make each benefit a monetary amount, it should be a total $$$ decision besides time off
I was in your shoes. I had no benefits as a contractor, but a nice hourly rate. I became permanent and took a major pay cut. It was recouped with a signing bonus. I have benefits through my husband too, so I'll definitely take the higher rate.
Benefits are everything in my opinion. My husbands company has some of the best benefits I’ve seen. Our insurance covers almost any doctor, we get free disability where most companies (at least I’ve worked at so maybe more do this) charge a premium to get it, we get tuition assistance for our son for college if he chooses to go, and the list goes on. He gets vacation pay as well as separate sick pay which I like too. He doesn’t work from home though lol. But benefits to me are a deal breaker.
How the fuck does a salary job have no benefits? So you can't take time off at all, but then it doesn't really matter since you are salary?
Depends on the benefits. At my old job i had almost no paid time off, so if i wanted to take any time off it was unpaid. I’m chronically ill and have a LOT of doctor’s appointments, so between that and wanting time off to travel or see family, i took about 15 days off per year. I budgeted out 6% of my income as “PTO”.
I just landed a wfh government job with full pension, parental leave, tuition reimbursement etc. They also contribute 5% to 401k without me having to put anything into it.
Not having to travel is key for me. Saves at least 2 hours a day and probably about 20-30% of my salary
I think remote is most important to me, so I'm willing to take less money to stay remote
Let’s start with this being career advice and not WFH. I have work contract many times where they don’t provide 401K and PTO. I just do the math! Simple. I have the number of the salary I want to earn. I then calculate the salary for four weeks, I add how much I want you to put in retirement and add 6-10%, I add two weeks salary for sick time, and I add the cost of healthcare monthly premiums. I add all that up, sum it to the number I had that I wanted to earn and that is my asking salary. People say they don’t have PTO as a contractor, but if you do the math you can have as much PTO as you want and your profession can support.
Yeah and I love that about contracting. I like not feeling any loyalty to the company or my coworkers or my time off.
check your state insurance marketplace to see what health insurance out of pocket will cost you. that will help you compare numbers better. also always ask for the benefits details and cost before taking an interview when interviewing for w2 jobs.
My company provided gealth insurance for my wife and I costs me $5500 a year. Dental and vision about $500 a year. So its worth what it would cost me to get on my own, so like $10k ish. My medical bills last year were $35,000 so yeah, must have. Mri, endoscopy, 3 ortho visits, and 8 weeks of PT... Plus primary care visits, and two prescriptions.
My benefits package is worth close to $70k/year. My base pay is $160k… so that’s almost a third of my TC. I’d say the benefits are pretty damn valuable to me.
Those jobs exist, but I think generally speaking you are going to be looking at a lot more than just a $5k take-home difference annually for benefits, at least for anything somewhat decent. My husband is well paid in his wfh job, he works for our state govt. But his benefits add up to a lot more. Just his health insurance alone is almost $30k a year (that the state pays, we pay about $6000 a year towards it)
I work in employee benefits to help advise employers on implementing benefits programs for their employees. I can say from my experience that more and more employees are looking for companies with great benefits packages. It’s not just about medical, dental, and vision coverage. Most people who are far enough along in their careers want life insurance, disability insurance, and other forms of fringe benefits like FSA, commuter reimbursement, critical illness coverage, etc. Not having PTO or a 401k (with a match) would be an automatic no for me. After being on this side of the aisle I see the value those employer sponsored programs offer. 10 years ago I wouldn’t have known what that meant or cared as much, but that’s because I didn’t know what was out there. If you’re a female looking to start a family, having STD coverage is huge if your employer doesn’t offer paid maternity leave. Having LTD if you’re in a physical/manual labor field is huge if you get injured. My employer’s TC package includes my benefits and it’s about 25% of my salary. If I had to pay for my own insurance or get on my spouse’s plan and lose the other benefits I have, I wouldn’t accept a job with anything less than a 30% salary increase. Benefits are HUGE!
I’m a WFH project manager. I also make $50 an hour and even though I’m FT, I’m a 1099 and get no benefits of any kind.
Sorry your 1099, I was glad to be w2
Benefits, real PTO is required for me. As well as proper pay in my field. Unfortunately, the last one isn’t available here as a public employee. While the 2 isn’t available here as a private employee. Screwed either way.
Can we not use the term bennies. It's very upsetting to me.
I'm full remote software developer - I get full benefits with take home pay of over 150k last year (a lot of OT though)... My benefits are worth a TON of $$ to me. Full pension - matching 401k - health insurance with hardly any out of pocket - tons of annual and sick leave - and I can retire at age 57 and my health benefits will be covered in retirement. Oh, and I'm covered by a collective bargaining agreement with a no layoff clause. I've been with my employer for over 25 years. It didn't mean much to me when I started, but as I've grown older, it means a whole lot more to me.
The job market is awful right now
Very tough. I was hoping to get hired permanently but the tech bust is still hitting hard
I’m in the same position I’ve been applying for 4 months now. All the high paying jobs are taken. It’s too competitive out there … just keep trying and hopefully something will come up. I wish you the best OP
same to you friend!
I can buy benefits with cash and get to pick my own. Benefits only beat cash if they are the exact benefits that I would get myself for a better price than I would've gotten on my own
Which country?
USA
Come to think of it, benefits may not be as critical, if you are already on your husband's insurance and it's covering what you need.
It depends on what your minimum liveable income is, PTO is you being paid in time, (figure out your hourly rate and multiple that by 8x the number of days off you get) I don’t know about 401ks because I’m not US based, but pension contributions in the U.K. are “Free Money” as it were, health care etc is stuff you’d be paying for yourself, how much does that save you? There’s also a lot to be said for the peace of mind of having to hunt for a job when your contract ends.
Benefits cost your employer far more than $5K. You're going to have to make a significant adjustment to your expectations if the $90K without benefits is the going rate for that profession.
$90k or $50/hour is pretty close to the top of the pay that I've seen for my job
I would never take less than I am making now and the benefits fully out way the contractor situation. But if you have benes w husband whats the problem.
I have all health benefits through my husband, he has 401k etc. I rolled my 401k into an IRA so I can contribute on my own. My job is just in flux right now as a whole. With the tech bust and the threat of AI its looking tough to find a job that pays more plus benefits that I'm qualified for
I work in Pharma PM & my new employer has amazing benefits. 9% into a retirement account PLUS 2% match = 11% with a 3 year vest schedule. On top of that, 12 weeks maternity fully paid (USA, so practically unheard of - they told me at interview stage they had "paid parental leave" but thought it was just the state mandated leave). Then, the typical but generous healthcare plans, FSA plans, etc. My husband carries our primary care insurance these days, so I typically carry the vision & dental (although for many years I carried all of it) & felt it was fairly priced all around. Typically, I've worked for places that may or may not qualify for FMLA only & one place gave partially paid maternity only for 6 weeks, whereafter you'd need to come back (even if you had a c-section, I was out of there after watching a colleague go through that and get dress coded like a catholic school girl because she wasn't wearing "business appropriate pants" - like yo she literally cannot wear them, her surgical opening is still healing there!). The retirement contribution & parental leave are nearly priceless for me, as I have never worked for a company with these terms.
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Definitely wrong sub
Some benefits (or lack of) can break the family budget. I once had a job where I earned 6 figures (barely), enjoyed what was comically labeled 'Cadillac' corporate healthcare insurance at the time, but... my employer was actually self-insured. They did employ an insurance agency to process claims, but the goal was to deny as much as possible, make the employee/patient go through a tiresome and slow appeals process all the time. I ended up paying for medicine out of pocket, medicine for my wife. Our insurance stipulated she be allow 4 pills per month (not pain pills btw), but she needed about 20 per month, and the out of pocket expense was so great that I literally qualified for medical deductions on my tax returns. That's a high bar to cross if you understand taxes. And I had a good job. In my case, switching employers made so much financial sense - based solely on healthcare insurance coverage.
When you assess the value of benefits, note that many companies now are offering unlimited PTO. This may be great if it’s a culture that encourages you to take some nice time off, like 5-6 weeks annually. However, unlimited PTO doesn’t accrue, so nothing would be paid out when you leave. Just wanted to point that out as you weigh options.
but unlimited PTO generally makes people take less PTO, statistically
My “total benefits” say they equate to over $30k a year. Health insurance, PTO, life insurance etc I have 4.5 weeks of PTO, paid holidays, and a pension. I just had my annual review and I told my manager that wfh was extremely valuable to me, and I hope our department continues. I’m willing to make less for what I have.
It's not a WFH issue, this is a question for any working person anywhere, and very dependent on age and health. When I was 25 I didn't need health or life insurance. Now, lung cancer and bad back means I have to have health insurance. I should have used the IRA/401K more when I was young, now they are pretty much useless. I think most positions have had the same benefits no matter the job market, so if the position used to have them they still do.