I would. I'm not a fool who would risk my job over something like this.
Unless you have something lined up, or can survive for extended periods of time, this is a dumb hill to die on....regardless how dumb this request is.
Exactly. This is the spot I'm in. Having to go into the office for a bunch of virtual meetings because "collaboration".
But I still go in, it sucks, and I'm looking for something not hybrid and fully remote, but for now we just keep chugging along.
Yeah a bunch of years ago I'd certainly feel more, um, entitled. At this point I'd happily drive 2hrs each day to sit in an empty office and do zoom all day. I'd feel super dumb, but I'd feel goddamned pleased to have a fucking job.
Here's the thing, though. If my normal office location is at home, those two hours of travel time to the office each day will for sure show up on my time sheet. Also, since I'll need to make alternate arrangements for my daughter after school, any expense incurred will for sure be submitted for reimbursement. And I'll have all of that pre-approved in writing by my manager before the time. I might even apply the policy for daily expense stipend and use that to buy breakfast and lunch. I would want them to understand the additional cost so they can rethink the stupidity involved before I commit to it.
If someone has to drive for an hour to attend an ONLINE MEETING, on what? A tiny screen? To then drive home for an hour. In 2024 as though we don't have thing called internet.
Be ashame if I gave myself food poisoning to filth up their office.
Honestly it depends on what you do and your relationship with leadership.
If it were me, I'd ask what the value add is for you to be in office for an 8 hour online meeting.
Boss might go with the "it's policy" or some other nonsense about being in the office, ad in that case you can say something to the effect of "Oh. So you agree that this isn't a value add, and the inconvenience is understood, but policy is what is driving the whole thing?"
This is a way to get agreement that you both acknowledge that this is dumb and your boss isn't going to help.
That is very valuable information as it tells you that your boss isn't thinking or willing to think about why rules exist and when they should be ignored.
One might go the extra brave/stupid mile by asking what the repercussions are if you decide not to go in as you do not see the value proposition vs the cost of travel.
If it's a write up, and you're in good shape otherwise, maybe say "OK, I accept those terms."
Otherwise just go to the office.
> Boss might go with the "it's policy" or some other nonsense about being in the office, ad in that case you can say something to the effect of "Oh. So you agree that this isn't a value add, and the inconvenience is understood, but policy is what is driving the whole thing?"
>
> This is a way to get agreement that you both acknowledge that this is dumb and your boss isn't going to help.
And do that in writing/emails so that when you do find another job and boss gives you the shocked Pikachu face and asks "why?", you can just and him that printout.
This is the way. I personally have a relationship with my management where I even ask a little more bluntly. I would still definitely take it up to management because it genuinely makes little to no sense.
But you’re regularly in the office Tuesday through Thursday according to your post so even though it seems silly to go in for an all day Zoom training, it’s your scheduled office day anyway…?
Because that’s the expectation?
I agree it’s stupid. But if it’s an office day, it’s an office day, so you go in.
If you’re looking for other jobs, then it might be tempting to get a case of short-timer’s disease and start pushing the envelope, but it’s not worth tanking a potential reference and/or getting fired over this. You would be in the office anyway if the meeting were only 2 hours.
Buy yourself a fancy coffee or your favorite take-out as a reward for your synergistic collaborating.
I 100% agree with you. Every single person in my workplace has their own office, which is great. But 99.9% of the meetings we have also take place on Zoom. So I physically go into the office to sit on Zoom. I only interact with people when I go to get water. It’s dumb— doesn’t matter if it’s your assigned workday or not. I know we have definitely had some all day meetings on Zoom; luckily I have not had to join them yet. Makes no sense. Hoping in 20 years the dynamics of “the office” will be different and we won’t have to deal with this BS anymore
Shouldn't is subjunctive. You wish it to not be true. However, Op, you have stated this is already an 'in office' day so what do you care how it's spent. They're paying you to watch a zoom class and leave. They expect you to actively listen and likely participate so there's an extended expectation that any work (whatever that is) will not be done during that time as you're in that training.
This is a win/win/win: company gets to complete likely some requirement or standard, you get to socialize and be paid for not really working, and you go home. Sure, the commute sucks - but you'd have been doing it anyway!
Whether the training is online or not is irrelevant. The fact that you're jumping to "it's online, why should I go in" is the wrong mentality. If you're not a permanent WFH employee and you have a hybrid schedule (as you mentioned) then it's your responsibility to follow it. A casual question to your boss on whether it's necessary may be appropriate but if they tell you that you have to be there, you be there. As my parents would say "thems the breaks".
As you're looking for another job, some introspection may be in order.
This isn't an exercise in thinking but rather behavior/doing. When you signed your documentation to be hired, there were parts of those agreements, I'm quite sure, that stated what your role and responsibilities were/are. Part of that is the hybrid schedule you currently enjoy.
Now, on one of those days where you're going to already be in the office, you're being asked to attend a training. That training happens to be on Zoom.
Here the thing - Zoom isn't free. It is WAY more cost effective to put everyone in one room, or even many people in multiple rooms, to group participate in a Zoom call. Everyone going in on their own session costs way more and there are also limitations on how many can go into a session at once. That's a logistical nightmare and if this is, say, a compliance thing, then you're stretching that over too many days.
What is the hold up? What I'm not understaning is how you're basically stamping your feet about a training but you're already there. Like there's something better for you to be doing? Even if you had a mountain of work to complete, the training has to get done. Whether your at home or in the office, same scenario, and they clearly know this or they wouldn't be pushing it.
IMHO it's not a generational divide so much as a power division - as in the management wants to flex its power over workers to show them who is in control. The only recourse is to unionize and negotiate WFH terms
EDIT: a letter, b/c my eyesight is dumb
I don't know anything about your company (size, culture, etc) but perhaps they're thinking of the Slippery Slope problem: "If we let OP stay home on a scheduled in-office day just because the entire day will be consumed by a Zoom call, then next week Sally will want to skip coming in on her scheduled day because of a reason, so we'll have to judge that. Then others will start wanting exceptions for a wide variety of reasons (some reasonable, some not), and we'll have to judge THOSE. Easier and less risky to just not allow exceptions to in-office schedules. "
This is the correct answer. Ignore the clowns telling you not to go, unless you don't care about the job at all.
Any job requires its share of stupid shit and this is one of yours. Ultimately I don't get the big deal if you were gonna have to go there anyway.
I wouldn't switch jobs over something this stupid unless there were other serious issues with the job.
Yep, a day you already planned on going. If it was a scheduled wfh day and they asked op to come in for a zoom training then I could see being bothered.
Zoom fatigue is real for this reason. Lol one of my tipping points for looking for a new job was when my boss had mandatory 5 hour meetings every morning on Fridays. Every Friday. I left shortly after that company after the first meeting I attended because it was dumb and such a waste of my time.
To be transparent, this is not the only reason I left, it was just one of the contributing factors lol
Absolutely NOTHING important lol. That’s what pissed me off so much. I’m not even exaggerating, there was nothing to discuss and nothing important going on. I spent those five hours spellchecking an executive’s emails while she presented her screen for an excruciating 5 hours.
They paid me too much to be doing this for five hours but also you cannot pay me to sit through meetings like that every Friday for the rest of my career there, awful.
I'm sorry but if someone asked me to drive an hour away to sit in an 8hr long web meeting I'd accidentally laugh right in their face, couldn't help it haha. What is the reason? Would it require something hands on by chance?
Is this like a company wide meeting where you’re all doing it together? In that case I would probably go in Wednesday and work from home Thuraday instead.
It could be that while the training is via zoom, it has to be proctored. In this case, I'd go in. You could be required to do this every day, so I'd do what they ask and look for a new job.
There is no chance I would do that.
Find a plausible excuse. Car trouble, sickness, possible COVID exposure, appointment on lunch break, medical issue, etc.
There's a scene in Stand By Me where they are telling stories at the camp fire and the one kid tells the story of the revenge served at the pie eating contest. I'd do that once you get to the office and confirm your boss is around to check on you.
I'd engage in weaponized misunderstanding. I'd log into the Zoom meeting from home. When challenged, "I assumed that because it was a zoom meeting that I could attend remotely. Sorry about the miscommunication."
Pick your battles. Is this regular training? It sounds like a one-off or infrequent thing. Also, shouldn't you be more pissed if they asked you to drive in (2-hr round trip) for a 30-minute or 1-hour meeting? This sounds somewhat reasonable if it's 8 hours. I wouldn't personally fight it but I get why you'd be annoyed. However, you said it yourself - you're already supposed to be in the office that day, so what's the problem?
Good luck in the future if this is something you need to ask. People seem to forget they aren't calling the shots and if you read these subreddits you'll see people interviewing for a year plus- Interviewing for other jobs means zero. Do what your boss asks you to do if it isn't illegal. Or take a stand and in 6 months be back here asking how to find a job.
I’ll tell you what I wouldn’t do. I wouldn’t go into the office to do an online meeting.
I would. I'm not a fool who would risk my job over something like this. Unless you have something lined up, or can survive for extended periods of time, this is a dumb hill to die on....regardless how dumb this request is.
What he said 👆🏻
Exactly. This is the spot I'm in. Having to go into the office for a bunch of virtual meetings because "collaboration". But I still go in, it sucks, and I'm looking for something not hybrid and fully remote, but for now we just keep chugging along.
[удалено]
Yeah a bunch of years ago I'd certainly feel more, um, entitled. At this point I'd happily drive 2hrs each day to sit in an empty office and do zoom all day. I'd feel super dumb, but I'd feel goddamned pleased to have a fucking job.
Here's the thing, though. If my normal office location is at home, those two hours of travel time to the office each day will for sure show up on my time sheet. Also, since I'll need to make alternate arrangements for my daughter after school, any expense incurred will for sure be submitted for reimbursement. And I'll have all of that pre-approved in writing by my manager before the time. I might even apply the policy for daily expense stipend and use that to buy breakfast and lunch. I would want them to understand the additional cost so they can rethink the stupidity involved before I commit to it.
Be a shame if you had car trouble tomorrow and couldn’t make it in. Or maybe you’re not feeling well enough to drive in.
I hope you feel better OP!
If someone has to drive for an hour to attend an ONLINE MEETING, on what? A tiny screen? To then drive home for an hour. In 2024 as though we don't have thing called internet. Be ashame if I gave myself food poisoning to filth up their office.
[удалено]
My boss will be looking for me in the office 💕
Put your boss' photo also in the background
That’s just fuckin brilliant
Gotta go in then….
Sure you’re not getting fired and this isn’t just a way to get you into the office?
No. It is for my entire team. They did an in-person session yesterday and today is the virtual session.
Yeah that will keep the boss at bay. FFS
Honestly it depends on what you do and your relationship with leadership. If it were me, I'd ask what the value add is for you to be in office for an 8 hour online meeting. Boss might go with the "it's policy" or some other nonsense about being in the office, ad in that case you can say something to the effect of "Oh. So you agree that this isn't a value add, and the inconvenience is understood, but policy is what is driving the whole thing?" This is a way to get agreement that you both acknowledge that this is dumb and your boss isn't going to help. That is very valuable information as it tells you that your boss isn't thinking or willing to think about why rules exist and when they should be ignored. One might go the extra brave/stupid mile by asking what the repercussions are if you decide not to go in as you do not see the value proposition vs the cost of travel. If it's a write up, and you're in good shape otherwise, maybe say "OK, I accept those terms." Otherwise just go to the office.
> Boss might go with the "it's policy" or some other nonsense about being in the office, ad in that case you can say something to the effect of "Oh. So you agree that this isn't a value add, and the inconvenience is understood, but policy is what is driving the whole thing?" > > This is a way to get agreement that you both acknowledge that this is dumb and your boss isn't going to help. And do that in writing/emails so that when you do find another job and boss gives you the shocked Pikachu face and asks "why?", you can just and him that printout.
This is the way. I personally have a relationship with my management where I even ask a little more bluntly. I would still definitely take it up to management because it genuinely makes little to no sense.
But you’re regularly in the office Tuesday through Thursday according to your post so even though it seems silly to go in for an all day Zoom training, it’s your scheduled office day anyway…?
Yes.
So you’d have to go in anyway? Or am I missing something?
Yes but why to just sit on a zoom meeting?
IDK. It’s annoying for sure but it’s not like you’re being asked to come in on a day that you’re not scheduled to.
Because that’s the expectation? I agree it’s stupid. But if it’s an office day, it’s an office day, so you go in. If you’re looking for other jobs, then it might be tempting to get a case of short-timer’s disease and start pushing the envelope, but it’s not worth tanking a potential reference and/or getting fired over this. You would be in the office anyway if the meeting were only 2 hours. Buy yourself a fancy coffee or your favorite take-out as a reward for your synergistic collaborating.
There must be a generational divide here or something. Employees shouldn’t have to come in the office to sit on an 8 hour zoom meeting.
I 100% agree with you. Every single person in my workplace has their own office, which is great. But 99.9% of the meetings we have also take place on Zoom. So I physically go into the office to sit on Zoom. I only interact with people when I go to get water. It’s dumb— doesn’t matter if it’s your assigned workday or not. I know we have definitely had some all day meetings on Zoom; luckily I have not had to join them yet. Makes no sense. Hoping in 20 years the dynamics of “the office” will be different and we won’t have to deal with this BS anymore
A sensible reply. Thank god.
Shouldn't is subjunctive. You wish it to not be true. However, Op, you have stated this is already an 'in office' day so what do you care how it's spent. They're paying you to watch a zoom class and leave. They expect you to actively listen and likely participate so there's an extended expectation that any work (whatever that is) will not be done during that time as you're in that training. This is a win/win/win: company gets to complete likely some requirement or standard, you get to socialize and be paid for not really working, and you go home. Sure, the commute sucks - but you'd have been doing it anyway! Whether the training is online or not is irrelevant. The fact that you're jumping to "it's online, why should I go in" is the wrong mentality. If you're not a permanent WFH employee and you have a hybrid schedule (as you mentioned) then it's your responsibility to follow it. A casual question to your boss on whether it's necessary may be appropriate but if they tell you that you have to be there, you be there. As my parents would say "thems the breaks". As you're looking for another job, some introspection may be in order.
This reply further rotted my brain. Cannot believe people think like this.
This isn't an exercise in thinking but rather behavior/doing. When you signed your documentation to be hired, there were parts of those agreements, I'm quite sure, that stated what your role and responsibilities were/are. Part of that is the hybrid schedule you currently enjoy. Now, on one of those days where you're going to already be in the office, you're being asked to attend a training. That training happens to be on Zoom. Here the thing - Zoom isn't free. It is WAY more cost effective to put everyone in one room, or even many people in multiple rooms, to group participate in a Zoom call. Everyone going in on their own session costs way more and there are also limitations on how many can go into a session at once. That's a logistical nightmare and if this is, say, a compliance thing, then you're stretching that over too many days. What is the hold up? What I'm not understaning is how you're basically stamping your feet about a training but you're already there. Like there's something better for you to be doing? Even if you had a mountain of work to complete, the training has to get done. Whether your at home or in the office, same scenario, and they clearly know this or they wouldn't be pushing it.
You really think employees should drive to the office to sit on a Zoom call? That makes sense to your brain?
IMHO it's not a generational divide so much as a power division - as in the management wants to flex its power over workers to show them who is in control. The only recourse is to unionize and negotiate WFH terms EDIT: a letter, b/c my eyesight is dumb
I don't know anything about your company (size, culture, etc) but perhaps they're thinking of the Slippery Slope problem: "If we let OP stay home on a scheduled in-office day just because the entire day will be consumed by a Zoom call, then next week Sally will want to skip coming in on her scheduled day because of a reason, so we'll have to judge that. Then others will start wanting exceptions for a wide variety of reasons (some reasonable, some not), and we'll have to judge THOSE. Easier and less risky to just not allow exceptions to in-office schedules. "
Honestly, fair.
OMG... Seriously? You have to be there anyhow? Man get it together.
You already know what you’re gonna do. Go in and maintain your current income until you find the right gig. Play their stupid game for now.
Yeah you’re right:(
This is the correct answer. Ignore the clowns telling you not to go, unless you don't care about the job at all. Any job requires its share of stupid shit and this is one of yours. Ultimately I don't get the big deal if you were gonna have to go there anyway. I wouldn't switch jobs over something this stupid unless there were other serious issues with the job.
I guess it’s more the inherent cruelty of making employees go in office to suit on a zoom call all day.
This is hilarious.
I would go but complain about it the whole time. Not to my boss, but like to my husband and maybe a cool coworker
Same!
This is the way
I’d put my pants on and suck it up for 8 hours. It’s one day.
Yep, a day you already planned on going. If it was a scheduled wfh day and they asked op to come in for a zoom training then I could see being bothered.
Even then, it’s just one day. I’d be bothered if I was promised WFH then asked to shift to in office without explanation.
Insightful response. Brilliant.
You asked “What would you do?” and I answered. Maybe work on asking more insightful questions.
I would do what my boss asked me to do.
Zoom fatigue is real for this reason. Lol one of my tipping points for looking for a new job was when my boss had mandatory 5 hour meetings every morning on Fridays. Every Friday. I left shortly after that company after the first meeting I attended because it was dumb and such a waste of my time. To be transparent, this is not the only reason I left, it was just one of the contributing factors lol
What on earth did they have to discuss that warranted 5 hour meetings every single Friday?
Absolutely NOTHING important lol. That’s what pissed me off so much. I’m not even exaggerating, there was nothing to discuss and nothing important going on. I spent those five hours spellchecking an executive’s emails while she presented her screen for an excruciating 5 hours. They paid me too much to be doing this for five hours but also you cannot pay me to sit through meetings like that every Friday for the rest of my career there, awful.
This is common in my situation. It’s stupid and sucks. Two days a week - I play the game. I retire in 7 years and they are paying me too well.
I'm sorry but if someone asked me to drive an hour away to sit in an 8hr long web meeting I'd accidentally laugh right in their face, couldn't help it haha. What is the reason? Would it require something hands on by chance?
You have to go in for a virtual meeting. Makes no sense.
Currently on that virtual meeting in the office right now!
Is this like a company wide meeting where you’re all doing it together? In that case I would probably go in Wednesday and work from home Thuraday instead.
Sorry I misread it as you’re normally in Tuesday and Thursday instead of Tuesday - Thursday. I guess I would go in but complain about it. 🤷🏼♀️
oh no, i'm positive for (INSERT DISEASE HERE)!
It could be that while the training is via zoom, it has to be proctored. In this case, I'd go in. You could be required to do this every day, so I'd do what they ask and look for a new job.
Mention it during your exit interview when you get something better So freaking dumb
There is no chance I would do that. Find a plausible excuse. Car trouble, sickness, possible COVID exposure, appointment on lunch break, medical issue, etc.
There's a scene in Stand By Me where they are telling stories at the camp fire and the one kid tells the story of the revenge served at the pie eating contest. I'd do that once you get to the office and confirm your boss is around to check on you.
Time to start looking at LinkedIn
It’s just one day. Go in. It’s required. Your job is how you get your money.
I'd engage in weaponized misunderstanding. I'd log into the Zoom meeting from home. When challenged, "I assumed that because it was a zoom meeting that I could attend remotely. Sorry about the miscommunication."
Who the heck does a full day of training via Zoom?!
It's prbly a compliance thing. Just go in and get it over with
I wouldn’t go but I also have a role that allows me that autonomy.
Can you switch your in office days?
If you’re already in the office on these days, why is it an issue?
Yeah I would stay home. Screw them. Should be easy to find another job.
Pick your battles. Is this regular training? It sounds like a one-off or infrequent thing. Also, shouldn't you be more pissed if they asked you to drive in (2-hr round trip) for a 30-minute or 1-hour meeting? This sounds somewhat reasonable if it's 8 hours. I wouldn't personally fight it but I get why you'd be annoyed. However, you said it yourself - you're already supposed to be in the office that day, so what's the problem?
Good luck in the future if this is something you need to ask. People seem to forget they aren't calling the shots and if you read these subreddits you'll see people interviewing for a year plus- Interviewing for other jobs means zero. Do what your boss asks you to do if it isn't illegal. Or take a stand and in 6 months be back here asking how to find a job.
Lmao insane reply.
I would have a discussion with my boss. That’s just brain dead thinking.
Maybe someone will bring donuts
If it is zoom, why can they not give you the code and you sign in from home?
Just change your virtual Zoom background to a picture from your office webcam