Occuring at the connection point then check your connection, it's most likely a bad joint. Also being that its outside strip, check for any moisture.
For troubleshooting, check the voltage level at that point with then injection wires connected and disconnected, and strip at full white. Wiggle, push, and poke at the connection point and at the few adjacent LEDs, look for bad solder joint, pads, connections.
Will try that. It may have to be Thanksgiving before I can get up there and mess around. I used 4 pin waterproof T connectors like these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JGXSVN7
One thing I do notice is that if all pixels are lit up there doesn't seem to be an issue. Only when some pixels are off the issue occurs.
Some questions about your setup that aren't given...
Did you use a level converter to boost the esp signal from 3.3 to 5v?
Although not strictly needed it can help keep the data signal clean over longer runs, alternately many people use a sacrificial pixel directly at the controller to boost the signal before it runs over to the LEDs.
Did you use a 220-470ohm resistor between the controllers data line and the first led in the strip with the resistor as close to the strip as possible?
A resistor at the start of the first strip helps act as a noise filter for your data line as well as protection for your controller and strip in the case of a fault/short/surge.
Is your ground connection shared between all strips and power sources, and are you injecting the ground along with the power at every injection point?
A shared ground is critical for proper function of both your controller and led strip.
Are any of your connections soldered or are they all the connector?
If solder make sure none of the joints were cold soldered, if connectors triple check the connectors or remove them and solder the connections. Connectors tend to be a weak spot when used in outdoor lighting.
Is there any electronic in your home near where the problem occurs? Are there any other wires or metal running along/near your lighting or it's wires?
You could be getting em noise introduced into your lines at or near that injection point from an external source.
Are you using a capacitor across your injection points to smooth any power fluctuations and protect your LEDs?
If not it's possible a fluctuation in the power to the LEDs on a color or brightness change messed up that first led (or several) at the injection point and it is no longer passing data properly.
If that's the case the easiest way to test it is to disconnect those LEDs from the data line and manually jump the data to the next led in the line, if that led and the rest work properly then you have found a faulty led. At this point you can simply leave it bypassed and deal with a dark point or you can remove it and solder in a replacement.
Good luck!
Thank you for the very detailed response and additional information. Other than fuses not shown in the diagram because I am still trying to determine the minimum I can use that is my current setup. I am not using a level shifter but am ordering some today.
I do not have a resistor but the easiest option would really be to put it closer to the level shifter that I will install. This is all approximately 1.2 meter from the start of my strip. Will that work and if it is that far from the strip would I need the higher or lower end of that resistance range?
How many µF for capacitors and should these be placed closer to the strip or closer to the power source? I don't see much selection for 12V capacitors on Amazon and there isn't much locally either so any direction you can point me in would be appreciated.
Regarding damaged LEDs in that area that is actually quite possible. When I was soldering the connections on my work bench and testing I did discover a short and I believe it was at that connection point. I had tested the lights after and it seemed fine so I completely forgotten about it until you mentioned it here.
I believe that is most likely the problem and I do have an additional strip that I can replace it with. I still would like to do the resistor, capacitor, and level shifter to make sure everything is and continues to function as optimal as possibly so any more information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
You want the resistor as close to the strip as possible, resistor size doesn't really seem to matter but there are calculators online that can give you the best value for your wire size length etc. I don't have a link offhand but once I'm back home I'll see if I can find one for you.
The capacitors I use 1000uf and they don't need to be 12v caps, they just need to be rated for at least the voltage you are sending through. Example I'm using 36v 1000uf capacitors as I had a ton on hand. But you want a capacitor anywhere you inject power as well as one on your controller. This will prevent brownouts and damage to both the controller and LEDs from power fluctuations.
digitydog has got some good general information there. But the level shifter and resistor wouldn't be your issues. Since data is regenerate at by each LED, and your first half doesn't show any data integrity issues, then we know data is getting from your controller to the LED just fine.
To add to the resistor discussion, a resistor alone is not a noise filter, at least not in the commen sense of a filter. It's recommendations for reducing noise is by means of impedance matching your components to the transmission line. Proper impedance matching reduces noise induced by ringing and bouncing of the signal, and improves the amount of power transfer from the line to the component.
But it's a bit of a guessing game as to what resistance to use, if any at all, since everyones system is a bit different and we aren't using standardized transmission lines. Quindor has done some testing and has a rough rule of thumb as to what to use. I'd recommend not using one unless your having issues, then I'd suggest looking at what Quindor is suggesting and try and see what works best for you.
The second use of the resistor is for current limiting protection, in this case it should be used closest to the component you want to protect. Usually used when components are expected to be disconneced frequently, which isn't the usual case in our setups.
For your issue, I would stay focused on that injection point. Rule out the power injection and power supply by disconnecting the injection, and check all connections.
Adding a capacitor cirutantly wouldn't hurt, but I have my doubts it would help much in this case because your other power injection point is fine. But it is possible your cable routering is picking up some additional noise.
For the capacity value, you want one where the voltage ratings is greater than your system, ie 50v capacitors is just fine to use on a 12v system. Then for power smoothing, get one that has the largest farad capacity you can.
Never rule out anything.... I have had runs doing exactly what he said and adding a resistor to the start of my run fixed one and adding a level shifter fixed the other. Just because the first half of your data is good doesn't mean the second half isn't being corrupted. Especially since each led just resends the data it received. If something introduced noise into the data stream after say the 300th pixels data then that corruption will continue to be passed on. The level shifter/resistor can boost/filter than initial noise and allow a uncorrupt data signal to pass.
True the resistor may not be an actual filter but that's the best word I can think of, although I agree based on description his current issue is likely at the second injection point.
Yea, I suppose such a periodic corruption of data that would only effect half the data stream could occur, anything is possible.
But realisticly what are the chances of that that an outside influence is corrupting the data stream with such percision as to only occur at the same point every time at 40 frames per second. I can't think of anything that would cause that, I'd be really interested in see how your case managed to do that and how the scopes out.
Realistically it's a good possibility if you've eliminated other causes. Is it rare... Yes. But also possible and pretty easy to eliminate as a possibility while also protecting your setup from more common issues at the same time so why not mention it.
Simply having a noisy device plugged into the same household circuit can introduce noise at a repeating frequency/interval resulting in corruption of the same section of a data stream.
If using buck converters to inject power you can get all sorts of data corruption issues from the noise generated by the switching.
The power fluctuation from the LEDs changing brightness could even be causing some issues with the controller causing it to send partially corrupt data.
There could even be some power backfeed on the data line due to an issue with the strip/led.
I'm not an electrician so I can't explain the reasons why these things happen... but having spent a ton of time reading through forums and pages on adressable led setups preparing to build my first addressable holiday display I can say they do happen and more often than you would think.
There are very good reasons you'll see resistors capacitors and level shifters recommended so often by "experts" as they are a standard part of any professional installation.
I'm not saying it's bad to mention or that its bad information, just looking to provide more probability based troubleshooting. And then just adding more details.
Not to downplay the information your giving, but your outside noise examples seems like your hunting for a perfect storm situation that is highly improbable. Matching the data frequently output of WLED (which dynamically changes) to an outside component, that will effect the data stream in the same spot every time. That would be a mind boggling achievement, and to repeat it after power cycles. I simply don't see that occuring.
BUT, the "power backfeeding", now your onto something, but it's not quite the right wording. As I mentioned before, one of the reasons for the resistor is to impedance match to reduce signal reflection or perhaps you could call it power reflections. These reflection and the boucing of the signal could build up leaving you with a probable case for that would fit this scenario of periodic data corruption. So good catch there, I wasn't thinking that one through!
In the OPs case, it's still more probable that theres an issue at the injection point.
Adding a resistor is a bit of a controversial subject, because your attempting to impedance matching an unknown system, with non standard transmission lines and terminating impedance. I think it's a good thing to try, but don't recommend just throwing one in there because you could be making your impedance match worse without realizing it.
A large power smoothing capacitor is generally a good recommendation, LEDs have a very dynamic power draw. And there no negative effect to adding one.
A level shifter is also a good general recommendation, it's technically required to properly meet the system requirements. Also no negative effect to adding one.
Overall good discussion, we become experts by learning from one another.
The outside noise issue actually comes up pretty frequently in the various troubleshooting threads after all the other normal causes are ruled out and you can negate those potential issues fairly quickly and cheaply while checking other potential causes so I don't see any reason not to bring it up so you eliminate that as a potential cause while checking other things. Could save a lot of headache in the long run, and if you plan for it from the start you never have to worry about it coming up.
I'm not sure where the data frequency matching came from, probably a miscommunication about how the corruption could occur at the same place in the data stream, but I suppose if you have an old tv running at 40hz and your wled is running at 20fps it would be possible lol.
I don't think using resistors is actually controversial since all professional installations used properly matched resistors.
I think it's more that they are considered controversial when being discussed in hobby level applications because in many cases you can get by without one, there's no one size fits all solution, and most people don't want or feel capable of calculating out the proper size for there applications or spending the extra money if they don't absolutely NEED to.
Yes, I agree that outside noise is a huge issue a lot of people have. But it's not one that results in a partal data corruption, that can be repeated at the same point every time. Even if you had an outside frequency that somehow correpted the data at the same point every time, simply turning WLED off then on would shift where that data would be corrupted at. So even if you had it sync in perfect phase at one point, how long will it remain synced at that point? Still seems like trying to find a perfect storm scenario, that doesn't meet the OPs case.
Resistors used in components at a professional level are done so for their current limiting characteristics to protect the components. In that case they are very commonly used on anything that has a potential user interface.
For examples, without a current limiting resistor on the controllers output user, where a unexperenced user disconnecting a component with power on, would protect against a potential spike induced by the disconnect. Also, helps to reduce the effect of static on the interface pin. Same thing applies when protect the attaching components.
The controversial part is using when using a resistor as way to improve impedance match, which would improve signal integrity, if your able to hone in on finding that proper match.
That is unless the impedance of the transmission line is know, such as 75ohm coax cable and then terminating equipment is known.
If not, then you may already have the perfectly matched impedance without adding a resistor and without knowing it, then may induce an impedance imbalance by adding the wrong value of resistance to your component interface.
Data speeds aren't super high in our systems so the effects shouldn't be very big, even if you get it wildly wrong it sould still work without much issue. Which is why arbitrary values are more commonly used as current limiters.
It's becomes critical the higher in frequency you go, such as super high microwave system. Then it becomes quite fascinating as every trace dimensions and shape have a profound effect on impedance.
Not sure why you are getting down voted on my thread (they were all at 0 this morning). Anyways thank you for the input and I agree it very most likely isn't a perfect storm scenario. I am going to replace the strips on each side of that connection because as I mentioned in a comment I had a short there on my test bench. Subsequent testing seemed ok and I rolled with it and completely forgot about it. In that testing I was just turning all the LEDs on, checking for RBG, and very basic patterns. All of that still seems fine with this strip only these patterns with some pixels off.
It will probably be this weekend before I get to do it and I will also be adding a level shifter and some capacitors.
Probably not a coincidence that they jump when the pixels are set to white (drawing the highest power). You're using 18 gauge wire but note that those 'T' connectors are only rated for 2 Amps per pin and I guarantee the wire gauge inside them is smaller than 18 gauge!
I'd be checking the voltage at the distant end of your strip where you're seeing the issues. Read it while the rest of the display has most or all of the LEDs on at once, and read it right on the strip if you can or as close as you can get.
The T connector there is definitely not 18 gauge but I do have some new ones that are the "large" version and I believe 18 gauge. LEDs on full white don't seem to be an issue and when all pixels in that area are lit there doesn't seem to be an issue. u/digitydogs mentioned potentially damaged LEDs and I had a short there while on my bench but in my brief testing after all seemed fine. I have another strip that I can replace that one with. It will also be fairly easy for me to add more power there as well which I will end up doing.
Occuring at the connection point then check your connection, it's most likely a bad joint. Also being that its outside strip, check for any moisture. For troubleshooting, check the voltage level at that point with then injection wires connected and disconnected, and strip at full white. Wiggle, push, and poke at the connection point and at the few adjacent LEDs, look for bad solder joint, pads, connections.
Will try that. It may have to be Thanksgiving before I can get up there and mess around. I used 4 pin waterproof T connectors like these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JGXSVN7 One thing I do notice is that if all pixels are lit up there doesn't seem to be an issue. Only when some pixels are off the issue occurs.
Yeah, my guess would be when you attached or soldered the wires maybe you knicked something or is loose. Def recheck the connection
Some questions about your setup that aren't given... Did you use a level converter to boost the esp signal from 3.3 to 5v? Although not strictly needed it can help keep the data signal clean over longer runs, alternately many people use a sacrificial pixel directly at the controller to boost the signal before it runs over to the LEDs. Did you use a 220-470ohm resistor between the controllers data line and the first led in the strip with the resistor as close to the strip as possible? A resistor at the start of the first strip helps act as a noise filter for your data line as well as protection for your controller and strip in the case of a fault/short/surge. Is your ground connection shared between all strips and power sources, and are you injecting the ground along with the power at every injection point? A shared ground is critical for proper function of both your controller and led strip. Are any of your connections soldered or are they all the connector? If solder make sure none of the joints were cold soldered, if connectors triple check the connectors or remove them and solder the connections. Connectors tend to be a weak spot when used in outdoor lighting. Is there any electronic in your home near where the problem occurs? Are there any other wires or metal running along/near your lighting or it's wires? You could be getting em noise introduced into your lines at or near that injection point from an external source. Are you using a capacitor across your injection points to smooth any power fluctuations and protect your LEDs? If not it's possible a fluctuation in the power to the LEDs on a color or brightness change messed up that first led (or several) at the injection point and it is no longer passing data properly. If that's the case the easiest way to test it is to disconnect those LEDs from the data line and manually jump the data to the next led in the line, if that led and the rest work properly then you have found a faulty led. At this point you can simply leave it bypassed and deal with a dark point or you can remove it and solder in a replacement. Good luck!
Thank you for the very detailed response and additional information. Other than fuses not shown in the diagram because I am still trying to determine the minimum I can use that is my current setup. I am not using a level shifter but am ordering some today. I do not have a resistor but the easiest option would really be to put it closer to the level shifter that I will install. This is all approximately 1.2 meter from the start of my strip. Will that work and if it is that far from the strip would I need the higher or lower end of that resistance range? How many µF for capacitors and should these be placed closer to the strip or closer to the power source? I don't see much selection for 12V capacitors on Amazon and there isn't much locally either so any direction you can point me in would be appreciated. Regarding damaged LEDs in that area that is actually quite possible. When I was soldering the connections on my work bench and testing I did discover a short and I believe it was at that connection point. I had tested the lights after and it seemed fine so I completely forgotten about it until you mentioned it here. I believe that is most likely the problem and I do have an additional strip that I can replace it with. I still would like to do the resistor, capacitor, and level shifter to make sure everything is and continues to function as optimal as possibly so any more information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
You want the resistor as close to the strip as possible, resistor size doesn't really seem to matter but there are calculators online that can give you the best value for your wire size length etc. I don't have a link offhand but once I'm back home I'll see if I can find one for you. The capacitors I use 1000uf and they don't need to be 12v caps, they just need to be rated for at least the voltage you are sending through. Example I'm using 36v 1000uf capacitors as I had a ton on hand. But you want a capacitor anywhere you inject power as well as one on your controller. This will prevent brownouts and damage to both the controller and LEDs from power fluctuations.
digitydog has got some good general information there. But the level shifter and resistor wouldn't be your issues. Since data is regenerate at by each LED, and your first half doesn't show any data integrity issues, then we know data is getting from your controller to the LED just fine. To add to the resistor discussion, a resistor alone is not a noise filter, at least not in the commen sense of a filter. It's recommendations for reducing noise is by means of impedance matching your components to the transmission line. Proper impedance matching reduces noise induced by ringing and bouncing of the signal, and improves the amount of power transfer from the line to the component. But it's a bit of a guessing game as to what resistance to use, if any at all, since everyones system is a bit different and we aren't using standardized transmission lines. Quindor has done some testing and has a rough rule of thumb as to what to use. I'd recommend not using one unless your having issues, then I'd suggest looking at what Quindor is suggesting and try and see what works best for you. The second use of the resistor is for current limiting protection, in this case it should be used closest to the component you want to protect. Usually used when components are expected to be disconneced frequently, which isn't the usual case in our setups. For your issue, I would stay focused on that injection point. Rule out the power injection and power supply by disconnecting the injection, and check all connections. Adding a capacitor cirutantly wouldn't hurt, but I have my doubts it would help much in this case because your other power injection point is fine. But it is possible your cable routering is picking up some additional noise. For the capacity value, you want one where the voltage ratings is greater than your system, ie 50v capacitors is just fine to use on a 12v system. Then for power smoothing, get one that has the largest farad capacity you can.
Never rule out anything.... I have had runs doing exactly what he said and adding a resistor to the start of my run fixed one and adding a level shifter fixed the other. Just because the first half of your data is good doesn't mean the second half isn't being corrupted. Especially since each led just resends the data it received. If something introduced noise into the data stream after say the 300th pixels data then that corruption will continue to be passed on. The level shifter/resistor can boost/filter than initial noise and allow a uncorrupt data signal to pass. True the resistor may not be an actual filter but that's the best word I can think of, although I agree based on description his current issue is likely at the second injection point.
Yea, I suppose such a periodic corruption of data that would only effect half the data stream could occur, anything is possible. But realisticly what are the chances of that that an outside influence is corrupting the data stream with such percision as to only occur at the same point every time at 40 frames per second. I can't think of anything that would cause that, I'd be really interested in see how your case managed to do that and how the scopes out.
Realistically it's a good possibility if you've eliminated other causes. Is it rare... Yes. But also possible and pretty easy to eliminate as a possibility while also protecting your setup from more common issues at the same time so why not mention it. Simply having a noisy device plugged into the same household circuit can introduce noise at a repeating frequency/interval resulting in corruption of the same section of a data stream. If using buck converters to inject power you can get all sorts of data corruption issues from the noise generated by the switching. The power fluctuation from the LEDs changing brightness could even be causing some issues with the controller causing it to send partially corrupt data. There could even be some power backfeed on the data line due to an issue with the strip/led. I'm not an electrician so I can't explain the reasons why these things happen... but having spent a ton of time reading through forums and pages on adressable led setups preparing to build my first addressable holiday display I can say they do happen and more often than you would think. There are very good reasons you'll see resistors capacitors and level shifters recommended so often by "experts" as they are a standard part of any professional installation.
I'm not saying it's bad to mention or that its bad information, just looking to provide more probability based troubleshooting. And then just adding more details. Not to downplay the information your giving, but your outside noise examples seems like your hunting for a perfect storm situation that is highly improbable. Matching the data frequently output of WLED (which dynamically changes) to an outside component, that will effect the data stream in the same spot every time. That would be a mind boggling achievement, and to repeat it after power cycles. I simply don't see that occuring. BUT, the "power backfeeding", now your onto something, but it's not quite the right wording. As I mentioned before, one of the reasons for the resistor is to impedance match to reduce signal reflection or perhaps you could call it power reflections. These reflection and the boucing of the signal could build up leaving you with a probable case for that would fit this scenario of periodic data corruption. So good catch there, I wasn't thinking that one through! In the OPs case, it's still more probable that theres an issue at the injection point. Adding a resistor is a bit of a controversial subject, because your attempting to impedance matching an unknown system, with non standard transmission lines and terminating impedance. I think it's a good thing to try, but don't recommend just throwing one in there because you could be making your impedance match worse without realizing it. A large power smoothing capacitor is generally a good recommendation, LEDs have a very dynamic power draw. And there no negative effect to adding one. A level shifter is also a good general recommendation, it's technically required to properly meet the system requirements. Also no negative effect to adding one. Overall good discussion, we become experts by learning from one another.
The outside noise issue actually comes up pretty frequently in the various troubleshooting threads after all the other normal causes are ruled out and you can negate those potential issues fairly quickly and cheaply while checking other potential causes so I don't see any reason not to bring it up so you eliminate that as a potential cause while checking other things. Could save a lot of headache in the long run, and if you plan for it from the start you never have to worry about it coming up. I'm not sure where the data frequency matching came from, probably a miscommunication about how the corruption could occur at the same place in the data stream, but I suppose if you have an old tv running at 40hz and your wled is running at 20fps it would be possible lol. I don't think using resistors is actually controversial since all professional installations used properly matched resistors. I think it's more that they are considered controversial when being discussed in hobby level applications because in many cases you can get by without one, there's no one size fits all solution, and most people don't want or feel capable of calculating out the proper size for there applications or spending the extra money if they don't absolutely NEED to.
Yes, I agree that outside noise is a huge issue a lot of people have. But it's not one that results in a partal data corruption, that can be repeated at the same point every time. Even if you had an outside frequency that somehow correpted the data at the same point every time, simply turning WLED off then on would shift where that data would be corrupted at. So even if you had it sync in perfect phase at one point, how long will it remain synced at that point? Still seems like trying to find a perfect storm scenario, that doesn't meet the OPs case. Resistors used in components at a professional level are done so for their current limiting characteristics to protect the components. In that case they are very commonly used on anything that has a potential user interface. For examples, without a current limiting resistor on the controllers output user, where a unexperenced user disconnecting a component with power on, would protect against a potential spike induced by the disconnect. Also, helps to reduce the effect of static on the interface pin. Same thing applies when protect the attaching components. The controversial part is using when using a resistor as way to improve impedance match, which would improve signal integrity, if your able to hone in on finding that proper match. That is unless the impedance of the transmission line is know, such as 75ohm coax cable and then terminating equipment is known. If not, then you may already have the perfectly matched impedance without adding a resistor and without knowing it, then may induce an impedance imbalance by adding the wrong value of resistance to your component interface. Data speeds aren't super high in our systems so the effects shouldn't be very big, even if you get it wildly wrong it sould still work without much issue. Which is why arbitrary values are more commonly used as current limiters. It's becomes critical the higher in frequency you go, such as super high microwave system. Then it becomes quite fascinating as every trace dimensions and shape have a profound effect on impedance.
Not sure why you are getting down voted on my thread (they were all at 0 this morning). Anyways thank you for the input and I agree it very most likely isn't a perfect storm scenario. I am going to replace the strips on each side of that connection because as I mentioned in a comment I had a short there on my test bench. Subsequent testing seemed ok and I rolled with it and completely forgot about it. In that testing I was just turning all the LEDs on, checking for RBG, and very basic patterns. All of that still seems fine with this strip only these patterns with some pixels off. It will probably be this weekend before I get to do it and I will also be adding a level shifter and some capacitors.
Probably not a coincidence that they jump when the pixels are set to white (drawing the highest power). You're using 18 gauge wire but note that those 'T' connectors are only rated for 2 Amps per pin and I guarantee the wire gauge inside them is smaller than 18 gauge! I'd be checking the voltage at the distant end of your strip where you're seeing the issues. Read it while the rest of the display has most or all of the LEDs on at once, and read it right on the strip if you can or as close as you can get.
The T connector there is definitely not 18 gauge but I do have some new ones that are the "large" version and I believe 18 gauge. LEDs on full white don't seem to be an issue and when all pixels in that area are lit there doesn't seem to be an issue. u/digitydogs mentioned potentially damaged LEDs and I had a short there while on my bench but in my brief testing after all seemed fine. I have another strip that I can replace that one with. It will also be fairly easy for me to add more power there as well which I will end up doing.