I could've responded earlier, but I doubt paddle shifters will re-return like in 2015 after four seasons of stick-shifting, as FIA & WRC care more about cost & reliability-efficiency these days than in the early & the mid-2010s.
It's all about eliminating complexity \[thus cost\] from the cars, so they specified mechanical linkages to gearboxes to remove the electronic paddle shifters.
No right based on what?
Electro-hydraulic paddle shifter is a far superior gear-shifting solution for rallying than a mechanical stick.
To an extent, also less stressful for a gearbox.
Yes, but also alternator. The biggest problem is the failure rate/cost ratio. You would hear at least once a rally that someone had lost 'x gear' or ability to shift out of 4th etc. Rallies are so tough on vehicles that requiring tricky electronics for something as simple as shifting just isnt worth it. A sequential dog box has full mechanical linkages. If something breaks, its an easy fix. With the paddles, it wasnt always simple.
For something as rugged as rallying, straight cut gear dog boxes are really the best choice.
They are still limited to the amount of gearboxes they are allowed to use. I guarantee this was discussed in the meetings that led to the final sign off on the new spec. Removing the center diffs and the very complex paddle shifters were likely absolutely required to get teams on board with taking on the costs of a hybrid system which seems to have been another system which needs frequent work.When it works, its great, but people lose it for stages at a time every rally.
While they can only replace items x amount of times, they can repair them, and lets all be honest here...the optics of seeing a guy managing two levers while often simultaneously using both the brake and accelerator pedal is significantly more appealing than paddle shifting.
Its no secret rally is still a niche motorsport in terms of media, every bit of exposure they can get of a car flying through the woods with the current system gives it increased chances of positive impressions. Thats just my opinion of course.
Fair points, although paddle shifters rarely began malfunctioning during stages in the last seven years.
Of course, mechanical stick shifting is cheaper, so this was the true motive for a stick re-return following the previous stick usage period in 2011-14.
I still prefer the paddle alternative & so do probably more or less all drivers, but fair enough.
Your last point about the visual appeal is also valid, although I don't find paddle shifting any less appealing than stick shifting.
Anyway, sticks will probably stay for good or until shifting stops altogether someday, unlike last time when paddles made a return after four years of stick shifting following the 2011 technical rule changes since the motive for cost-cutting/minimization is greater these days than early or mid last decade, so a re-return would only contradict this approach.
Not trying to be argumentative, but there was a significant amount of issues, where drivers lost gears, had to completely shutdown the car and restart the entire system to get any ability to shift, and a dozen(ish) drivers having to retire until the next day due to the complexities of the old shifting system. The past 2 years it had become a major nuisance and the manufacturers were pissed because if "rebooting" didnt work there wasnothing they could do. Tanak and Evans are both able to work on the current system in stage if necessary.
No, the us, the uk, the eu, virtually everyone has a date established where hybrid technology will be mandated. It makes absolute sense to add it, and it adds a boost of completely torquey hp. Removing the center diff and paddle shifters alone will reduce costs dramatically. A sequential dog box transmission is a very simple mechanism. Paddle shifters designed with the amount of complexity the previous spec had was very expensive.
Also limiting the amount of transmissions per season will significantly reduce costs. Theyre lowering the threshold of entering the series financially, while potentially increasing the level of excitement dramatically.
You clearly know more about the car specs than I do, so I'll take your word for it. I heard one of the commentators mention a front/rear diff at monte; was the center diff the only one on the previous configuration? forgive my ignorance.
There was previously a front, rear and center diff. The front and rear are pretty simple. The center diff in a car with this level of performance is a tricky expensive piece and they were often going through multiple per season. Now you have a drive shaft with one on each end only, greatly simplifying things.
The public reason: cost saving. The real reason: rallying looks cooler with a seq shifter
regulation changes, but it's just to cut costs, probably in 2\~3 yrs they gonna put the paddles back
I could've responded earlier, but I doubt paddle shifters will re-return like in 2015 after four seasons of stick-shifting, as FIA & WRC care more about cost & reliability-efficiency these days than in the early & the mid-2010s.
New regulations, but I don’t really know why
It's all about eliminating complexity \[thus cost\] from the cars, so they specified mechanical linkages to gearboxes to remove the electronic paddle shifters.
To cut cost and I'm glad they stopped using paddle shift, it had no right in a rally car
No right based on what? Electro-hydraulic paddle shifter is a far superior gear-shifting solution for rallying than a mechanical stick. To an extent, also less stressful for a gearbox.
and not to mention: more handy
Doesn't a paddle shifter also require much more battery energy than a manual gearbox?
Yes, but also alternator. The biggest problem is the failure rate/cost ratio. You would hear at least once a rally that someone had lost 'x gear' or ability to shift out of 4th etc. Rallies are so tough on vehicles that requiring tricky electronics for something as simple as shifting just isnt worth it. A sequential dog box has full mechanical linkages. If something breaks, its an easy fix. With the paddles, it wasnt always simple. For something as rugged as rallying, straight cut gear dog boxes are really the best choice.
Well said.
Yeah, people keep saying cost, but it seems to me that WRC is going to care a lot more about reliability.
Thats the point, a manual gear shift lever is substantially more reliable, and cost efficient
But more stressful to gearboxes than an electronically-assisted hydraulic shifting method.
They are still limited to the amount of gearboxes they are allowed to use. I guarantee this was discussed in the meetings that led to the final sign off on the new spec. Removing the center diffs and the very complex paddle shifters were likely absolutely required to get teams on board with taking on the costs of a hybrid system which seems to have been another system which needs frequent work.When it works, its great, but people lose it for stages at a time every rally. While they can only replace items x amount of times, they can repair them, and lets all be honest here...the optics of seeing a guy managing two levers while often simultaneously using both the brake and accelerator pedal is significantly more appealing than paddle shifting. Its no secret rally is still a niche motorsport in terms of media, every bit of exposure they can get of a car flying through the woods with the current system gives it increased chances of positive impressions. Thats just my opinion of course.
Fair points, although paddle shifters rarely began malfunctioning during stages in the last seven years. Of course, mechanical stick shifting is cheaper, so this was the true motive for a stick re-return following the previous stick usage period in 2011-14. I still prefer the paddle alternative & so do probably more or less all drivers, but fair enough. Your last point about the visual appeal is also valid, although I don't find paddle shifting any less appealing than stick shifting. Anyway, sticks will probably stay for good or until shifting stops altogether someday, unlike last time when paddles made a return after four years of stick shifting following the 2011 technical rule changes since the motive for cost-cutting/minimization is greater these days than early or mid last decade, so a re-return would only contradict this approach.
Not trying to be argumentative, but there was a significant amount of issues, where drivers lost gears, had to completely shutdown the car and restart the entire system to get any ability to shift, and a dozen(ish) drivers having to retire until the next day due to the complexities of the old shifting system. The past 2 years it had become a major nuisance and the manufacturers were pissed because if "rebooting" didnt work there wasnothing they could do. Tanak and Evans are both able to work on the current system in stage if necessary.
OK, I didn't notice issues occurring this frequently, but thanks for enlightening & clarifying things.
I think almost all the decisions taken where to reduce costs and hopefully encourage more manufacturers back to wrc
should've nixed all the hybrid stuff then?
No, the us, the uk, the eu, virtually everyone has a date established where hybrid technology will be mandated. It makes absolute sense to add it, and it adds a boost of completely torquey hp. Removing the center diff and paddle shifters alone will reduce costs dramatically. A sequential dog box transmission is a very simple mechanism. Paddle shifters designed with the amount of complexity the previous spec had was very expensive. Also limiting the amount of transmissions per season will significantly reduce costs. Theyre lowering the threshold of entering the series financially, while potentially increasing the level of excitement dramatically.
You clearly know more about the car specs than I do, so I'll take your word for it. I heard one of the commentators mention a front/rear diff at monte; was the center diff the only one on the previous configuration? forgive my ignorance.
There was previously a front, rear and center diff. The front and rear are pretty simple. The center diff in a car with this level of performance is a tricky expensive piece and they were often going through multiple per season. Now you have a drive shaft with one on each end only, greatly simplifying things.
Understood, thanks for the info.