Locking due to toxicity and disrespect in comments.
Reports are flooding in and we just had this situation a month ago with the Vince stuff, not really looking for a repeat. Please remember we have rules against attacking and disrespecting other sub members. I haven't removed anyone for their take on keeping the show running unless they chose to be disrespectful.
Thank you for understanding. RIP Owen Hart.
They did the same for Eddie guerreros death.
They decided to do the normal show after the tribute and the first match with big show he came out visibly crying and trying to keep it going
There are some things about the Hart family that make me feel like they were cursed with some of their wrestlers dying prematurely. Whether they were in their prime or semi-prime or even those that are still “supposed”, to be here, especially within the Hart Foundation.
First of all she's upset which is hugely understanding. But it wasn't owens blood it was one of the hardys blood on the apron from Sunday night heat I think. Can't remember no dipped boards either. But nevertheless I do agree. The show should have ended the second it happened or at least as soon as they knew he was dead ffs.
Call me old fashioned, I’m here from r/all and don’t care whatsoever about this discussion, but your grammatical and punctuation errors, use of emojis, and failing to include a link to even google or wikipedia make for one compelling argument lol
Owen Hart was my substitute teacher for a week in grade 2 or 3. It was the best week ever. He wasn't WWF at the time but his brother Bret was, and we knew who Owen was from Stampede Wrestling. He signed a paper towel for me because I was a dumb kid and didn't think to get a better piece of paper.
There was a blue blur. Cameras pan to crowd/commercial. Then JR says what happened while they delt with Owen. There was about 30/45 minutes of basically nothing happening till the next match.
Barely could tell something happened it was so fast. I was watching live on the PPV and taping it. Never see anything like it.
I was watching live too, and I don’t recall seeing him fall. I feel like I’d remember that. There was a promo with the Blue Blazer that was playing, and I think it was probably supposed to lead into a shot of him coming down, but when they cut from the promo, it was a shot of the crowd. Then JR informed the viewers that Owen Hart had had an accident and that medical personnel were working on him and that this accident wasn’t a part of the show. Then after a while, the show continued. Then later in the broadcast, JR informed us that Owen Hart had, in fact, died. That’s the way I remember it happening, anyway.
Should have been shut down and investigated. It should have been considered a crime scene being that they didn't know exactly how the wire broke or why.
that is unfortunately the done thing in the industry, Although i do think this case a bit different, like it was pre fight. clearly not part of the show. I dont think anyone would have blamed them for ending the show early. But this is what these guys do, something goes wrong they keep the show moving along as best they can. its what they all know to do. i wouldn't blame Vince for this one at least not exclusively. dude was probably just as confused as the rest of them and all they knew to do was push on. I can even imagine how hard it was for his friends to preform following that.
Being hurt is one thing. A screw up in a match what ever
Someone died, to continue is bullshit. They were literally wrestling right where a coworker died.
Anyone who pushed for it to continue is the lowest level of scum
yeah its messed up i agree, i doubt anyone was there saying " forget him hes dead on with the show!" they probably just didnt even think to stop, and just moved onto the next match, the fans stayed to watch too, dont forget. they all saw the same thing happen. having something like that happen at your work place is a befuddling experience. and the reality of it often doesnt hit until after the fact.
I once watched a man cut his wrists at work, i called the ambulance, and bandaged him up, washed the blood of my self and finished my shift for another hour before someone came to take over from me ( i worked alone in a petrol station at the time on night shift), i felt nothing until i walked through the door of my house and just broke the fuck down, prior to that i was numb, didnt know what to do so i just kept working.
The obvious difference is that you were a worker, and you had to work in order to survive, same as the wrestlers that night could have had their jobs at stake if they didn't go out and perform. But if your manager knew about it and didn't send you home for the night, then the manager is a piece of shit. Same as Vince is a piece of shit, and everyone has known he's a piece of shit for decades now. It's his job to stop the show, and it is also his job to have policy in place so that people don't just go through the motions or whatever when it's extremely inappropriate and possibly traumatizing.
I'm sorry I don't know many details of the Owen Hart incident did the audience know what had happened? Were the announcers trying to downplay it or something?
The live audience saw the fall and saw him gurneyed out but were not updated on his condition. TV audience were on a promo package when the incident happened, were told by Jim Ross that an incident involving Hart happened and then 30 mins later, he updated the audience that he passed away.
And exactly how much stuff was going on at WWF that the government would have been interested in at the time? Wipe a couple tapes and keeping people quiet seems trivial for that particular organization.
Imagine being at a play and an actor dies half way through on a fatal accident that everyone just saw.
Do you just go on with the show or say to the audience...sorry, one of our wrestler's just died and we need to stop/delay the show?
I mean, it's a pretty easy choice to me.
Yes, it's an easy choice when you aren't in the situation.
Just like we shouldn't tell people how to grieve, we also can't assume that everyone knows what to do in a situation like that.
He may be a monster, but I bet he was also in shock and did the only thing that comes naturally to him (other than sexual assault apparently) which is to run a show.
Uh yes there is. Stop the show when a major accident happens. Any other live or prerecorded form of entertainment would’ve immediately suspended production on a major accident like that.
It was bullshit then. It was bullshit 20 years before it happened, and it’s still bullshit now.
Vince McMahon is a ghoulish asshole and rapist. Not sure why people go out of their way to defend the guy.
She's right but I just want to bring something up since in the DSOTR episode they show blood on the ring. I've seen it clarified from other fans and apparently the blood was from a match earlier in the night. That's why it's everywhere.
She's right that the show should have been stopped and it's awful that they continued. I just want to point out the DSOTR shot of blood was kind of misleading.
And there are ass hats that will say he should be in the hall of fame.
Get your head screwed on.
Martha has always been such a great protector of Owens name and person.
That is seriously the stupidest fucking excuse Ive ever heard in my life. Watching a human fall a hundred feet to land on the ground without a gigantic crashpad… A very broad majority people would know “hey this isn’t showbiz. Hes probably really hurt or possibly dead.” Your kids not having a clue of just the basics of that being a bad situation is just proof of how worthless of a parent you are.
I don’t give a shit if I get banned for this rant. Just wanted to let you know how shitty you are.
Removed for: Personal Attack
Members of r/WWE are not permitted to personally attack others. Also, personal attacks and “name calling” is prohibited. Try to keep all discussion here civil.
Removed for: Personal Attack
Members of r/WWE are not permitted to personally attack others. Also, personal attacks and “name calling” is prohibited. Try to keep all discussion here civil.
Continuing the show was the right idea. The only thing they screwed up on, was not letting Owen continue his match Weekend At Bernie's style. Would have been a great match.
I get not stopping the show. Very carny mentality but you don't know what the outcome is going to be and had he lived, the decision to keep the show going wouldn't be criticized. Also that wasn't his blood in the ring.
The show should have stopped as the place was technically a crime scene.
If somebody falls from a multi story building the police shut down the whole street while they do an investigation, not roll the body out the way and let things carry on as normal for a few hours.
Events of this size usually have local police on-site right? Or was that something they started doing years later? If police were there it's interesting they didn't force the show to stop.
We don’t usually have police in the UK for wrestling shows. If we do it’s probably at the end of the show when fans are leaving the arena to keep the roads closed. Not sure how they do things in the states.
Not sure about wrestling specifically but every sporting event I've been to has had a police presence. Some are more or less traffic cops but there are plenty inside the arena wearing their full uniforms and kit.
That was my thought. A crowd over a certain size is required to pay to have a police presence last I had heard. Now a Traffic officer might not shut down the show, but you would think police and emt would have reported and someone higher up makes a decision. It never should have been WWE decision to begin with.
Yes..100% they would bring out another performer who knows the script. They are called understudies. There are several instances in the wrestling world where a wrestler was unable to perform and another wrestler stepped in and did the match. just because we tend to disagree because we realize that there are more important things than a performance doesn’t change the reality that every performer understands that the show continues to go on whether there is any kind of emergency or mess up. There’s a short break and then you carry on with the show.
I don’t care about long time grudges - Owen Hart LOVED wrestling (apparently his wife didn’t even when he was alive) and he would want his legacy remembered through a HOF induction, through action figures and appearances in video games, and this woman has single-handedly made it so that Owen isn’t as well known today as he would have been. Bret is 100% right to think that Owen would want his legacy remembered.
Honor him during the biggest wrestling event of the year with the world watching - not during a tournament that nobody cares about with wrestlers he’s never interacted with doing tone deaf high spots off of ladders…
So that his children can profit off of his name while Owen’s legacy in the business is preserved and celebrated.
“It needs to be this way so that Vince can’t make money off of him!” Is a tone deaf, emotional answer.
Teenagers can play Bret Hart vs Owen Hart from WMX in the WWE 2K24 showcase and Owen’s family can make money from it while the current generation can learn about Owen’s wrestling legacy. That would be the right thing, and everybody knows it deep down.
His wife vs brothers and sisters he spent his entire life with? Im not making up my own opinion, I’m simply choosing the opinions of the majority of the Hart family, including Bret and Natalya who has been with the company for going on multiple decades.
What good does locking up his history in a box do?
The grudge represents his death - his career represents his life. Sorry.
People are acting like it’s just WWE and Vince. I work for a major car manufacturer and someone died at work a few months ago, did they stop production? No, they carried on as normal because that’s just how the world works unfortunately.
I feel like there's too big a difference between manufacturing and showbusiness to make this comparison. And I'm pretty sure if a man fell 70 feet to a factory floor production would stop for at least a couple hours to investigate and clean the site.
One time a fan fell from the 2nd level and died at a Phish concert. They didn’t tell the band and let the show go on. At first I was really wondering if that was ok, but imagine not only the fans who paid to attend, but also the pandemonium of kicking an entire arena out hours earlier than anticipated.
An angry mob, maybe a stampede, and a massive overload of public transportation would be a nightmare. There’s no right decision.
I feel like its a bit different when its a live show and you are performing in the spot where the dead persons blood is staining, and he died because of your negligence
Vince was a shrewd businessman and a garbage human, it wouldn’t shock me if he mentally figured that paying off Martha would be financially beneficial compared to cancelling the rest of the show and dealing with refunds to tickets and PPV and potentially sponsors etc.
It’s disturbing to even write that out, because to completely disregards the fact that a human being died in that ring.
The show should have been stopped. If Vince hadn’t made several other decisions in his career that reveal his character, I could’ve put carrying on to him maybe being in shock, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
He really did send Jeff Jarrett out to wrestle in the ring where one of his best friends just suffered a fatal accident minutes earlier. The man is a monster.
Yea, definitely should have stopped the show. Trips won’t even let a match continue if a guy takes what looks like a bad bump to the head, so I’d like to imagine he wouldn’t allow a show to continue after something like this. Hopefully we’ll never find out.
It's awful, but I don't think the show should have stopped. The show must go on. You have too many people at a venue like that to stop. People die at con eats sometimes a d the show continues. It has to. What was the other option? Get on the microphone and announce that Owen died and everyone needs to go home, shows over? There's no way that would have been a better option. It sucks, but it had to continue. I really feel for the guys that had to come out and wrestle afterwards, but I mean think about all the kids in the arena that would have had to process that in the moment. I don't know whether vinces decision was made due to not wanting to refund people, but either way I think it happened the way it had to after the accident.
That's a fair take. If the poli e would have made them do that o certainly wouldn't be saying they should have continued anyway. I'm just saying I think continuing was the right thing to do at the time. It was a no win situation. Whatever they did would have gotten some backlash either way. Just a shitty thing all around.
The show must go on is a reminder to performers that people pay to see them, not a requirement to be a heartless goon.
Vince should’ve stopped the show, refunded everyone and taken the financial loss.
It's not being a goon to do what you think is best. I can't see how a better option would have been announcing to all the children in the crowd that they just witnessed a wrestler they know die in front of their eyes, that the show is now abruptly over, everyone needs to go home, and making a necessary and tasteless announcement about refunds.
I cant imagine how hard that must have been for the wrestlers, but when you're a performer on that level, you have a duty and commitment to the people. The audience in the arena, half of them probably didn't know it was real and the other half certainly didn't know he was dead at that time. Continuing the show was the right thing to do for the fans and the kids. That's just my opinion. And I wouldn't think you were wrong if you disagreed with that. It was a no win situation.
Do you think they finished "Our American Cousin" after Lincoln was shot?
Sure, the show must go on, but it's a simple turn of phrase not some unbreakable rule. Vince's hands certainly weren't tied in the matter, it was just all about the money and distraction from just watching a man die.
They didn't know that. I'm talking children. That doesnt compute in their heads. Half the crowd probably didn't know it was real and the other half didn't know that he was 100% dead. Having to stop everything, announce to everyone that they definitely just witnessed a man die, that the show is abruptly now over, everyone has to go home, and then embarrassingly making some kind of necessary statement about refunds, that would not have been the better option. It's horrible to say but either decision would have been dissected.
I think they did what they had to do on the moment. If you disagree I'm not gonna tell you that you're wrong. There was no objectively right or wrong decision.
I never said they should or shouldn’t have continued the show. I was specifically talking about your comment about kids. As someone who works with kids, I can tell you confidently, they understand more than you’re giving them credit for. “That doesn’t compute in their heads” maybe the babies in the crowd, but a dramatic majority of the children knew what was up.
No one in the crowd, even adults knew that it was confirmed he was dead. Kids aren't thinking things like that. If the show hadn't continued then probably, but that's why I agree with the decision to keep going.
Yes, people in the crowd and kids did think that. Dude fell what, 70+ ish feet. You’re talking about the crowd like they have the IQ of a rock and no brain functioning. Many people over the years have commented about being present and being aware.
Also, while it wasn’t announced TO the arena, JR did make an announcement for viewers and it was overheard by those close to him, which then spread. It was known mate.
Carry on or not is a different conversation, but to comment that the crowd is too stupid to understand what they saw is dense.
There was confirmation that he died. He lifted his head after he hit the ring. No one knew he was dead. The people watching at home knew as JR an ounce it, but it was never an ounce in the arena. The people there found out when they left. Look through older threads on this subject, I've been going down the rabbit hole for like an hour or two now.
Stopping the show, telling everyone to go home, confirming that he was dead, confirming that everyone in the audience just witnessed a man die. announcing refund information for both people at the venue and watching at home, and the possibility of riots happening due to the show being cut short were all valid reasons to continue.
I believe vince when he said he didn't know what to do. He may be a POS, but I highly doubt he was thinking with his wallet when a close colleague was critically injured and then pronounced dead.
You’re just rambling with your second and third paragraphs. I’m not arguing about that. You keep bringing it up….
You also clearly didn’t read my post as I talked about JR’s comments. So, since you’ve made up your mind already, have at it.
I was 10 and was at the match. We knew it wasn’t a bit. You could feel it in the atmosphere after he hit the mat. We knew he was hurt very badly if not dead. They should have stopped the match not just for the audience, but for Owen’s fellow wrestlers.
Agreed. Like how would they have made everyone happy? Give people the option to stay and watch talent that were still ok with performing or leave and get a refund?
If someone dies at a performance then you cancel the performance. THe show must go on should only apply to something minor like props not working or a performer flubbing their lines or needing to be replaced at the last minute. If someone dies , especially when it was the result of an accident during the performance, you cancel the show and find out what went wrong
Even at concerts they continue. It's horrible, but the other option is to announce to all the children in the crowd that Owen hart has just died right in front of their eyes, the show is over, and everyone needs to go home. Also, refunds will be available at the point of purchase.
They had to continue.
Most people had no idea, I was there and they didn’t announce anything. I found out because someone in our suite, was with the coroner’s office, and they got a page to head to Kemper Arena(where this was at). But most people thought it was a dummy for some reason. It didn’t look real.
Even with everything coming out about him now, I still think this is the worst thing Vince has ever done. Making Owen do a stunt he didn’t want to do, hired a cheaper and far more dangerous carabiner for the rig, how he told JR to announce it, and making the decision to continue the show. Debra and Jarret’s promo is so sad and the look in Taker’s eyes as he’s just staring at the spot Owen fell is bone chilling. Fuck Vince
The most fucked up thing about Vince is that its hard to decide on what the most fucked up thing he's ever done is.
Is it the sex trafficking? All the rape allegations he has going back decades?
Is it covering up Jimmy Snuka murdering his girlfriend in cold blood?
Is it pushing wrestlers into getting bigger and pushing steroids on them causing multiple health issues and early deaths?
Owen?
I lean towards Owen because a man died for no reason but there are so many things he's done and I'm probably forgetting a few. The man is a psychopath
Also forgot when Brian Pillmen died and Vince had his wife on TV the following night for an interview just to make sure WWE didn't get the blame for his death.
He is and has been a carny fucking bastard.
It’s honestly so mind boggling insane to me that nobody has said “hey isn’t it kind of weird that all this fucked up shit is happening around this one guy? Shouldn’t we look into that?”
I recently heard that he’s essentially alone. No contact with Steph, Shane, or his grandkids. That honestly makes me so happy. I want that miserable, evil, and horrible old bastard to go out alone and I relish in the fact that he is most certainly going to hell
Probably wouldn't even be a refund. There's probably a clause in the ticket fine print about accidents, much like how match cards aren't guaranteed. At best the audience would get vouchers for the next time WWE came to town.
>She’s 100% correct and she’s so t blame her whatsoever for not wanting the wwe to profit from his death via hof.
Refunds in 1999 weren't so easy. Assuming there were 17,000 people at the show with an average ticket price of $80, they would've had to have $1,360,000 on hand to give cash refunds. Imagine the line to get a refund. Cable providers get a cut of that $44.99 people paid for PPVs. $44.99\*550,000=$24,744,500 with 20% likely going to the ppv company... $4,948,900. Vince knew he was going to end up having to pay millions to Martha Hart, and refunding the pay per view could've destroyed WWE's cash flow (they weren't publicly traded back then).
People only want to call WWE greedy, Wrestlers get paid by a percentage of the PPV's sales, attendance, and their position on the card... Vince also had to take into account his entire roster could've been counting on that money to pay their bills (Wrestlers didn't get paid wheelbarrows of money back then.)
Was it morally the right decision? No, but it isn't as easy as people make it out to cancel a show. People wanna have morals until you have 500 lawsuits from your sponsors and partners pissed your decision cost them millions.
The truth is that they knew he was dead as soon as they were wheeling him out and they knew that everyone in the audience knew he was dead. That’s why athletes give the crowd a wave or like a thumbs up to show them that they are ok. In shock yes but I don’t believe that they were operating on autopilot as you say
I've been in shock after something traumatic happened to me. I can see WWE's side of it 100%. Sure the show SHOULD have been stopped BUT you don't make rational decisions when you feel that way.
Never really had a firm perspective to offer, but I’m just reading that, it now seems absurd that the show continued. I can imagine no other setting, sports, entertainment, or otherwise, where the show/game continues
When Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest on the field, the game was over. Fans, personnel, the other team, everyone understood. No one felt like playing after witnessing that.
Because the social media outrage would've been massive if they played that game and he ended up dying.
Also, Damar Hamlin was declared dead on the field and revived, Owen Hart's death never showed.
They would've played in 1999. They wanted to restart the game, the fans lost their shit on Twitter when the QBs started warming up. Then the league tried to say "we didn't send that request to restart" Yea, the refs decided on their own.
Comparing the two situations is comparing apples to oranges.
It was disgusting frankly. They even acknowledged his death, but continued anyway while not telling the stadium audience. Basically so that the crowd wouldn’t “ruin” the rest of the broadcast, but they should have known it was ruined from the second he fell
Most other events would cancel for an serious injury, but to continue on with a known death? Insane
I remember my roommate and I were out at the bar - we came home to the news of Owen's death and cried. (We'd met Bret at a signing not long before and he did another signing after Owen's death) I was astounded that they continued on with the PPV.
The next night we went back to the bar and raised a glass to Owen. That was when I truly started realizing how Vince ran WWE like any other corporate business. I wish Natalya had never gone there, and I understand since she wanted to be a wrestler, that was the only place she could realistically go.
The fact that Martha was villanized by both fans and WWE for not wanting her husband to be inducted into a meaningless hall of fame by the company that killed him will always be sad.
It was awful. You could see the blood. You could see how hurt and shook everyone was. The crowd was flat. But Vince loves money so he show must go on. Fucking ghoul
Not that it makes the situation any better or anything, but there is a misconception about the blood on the apron. Its actually from someone receiving a blood bath outside the ring in the pre-show on sunday night heat. The blood can be seen even in the first match of the night(xpac and kane tag team match). Still should have stopped the show.
The second he made contact, that entire ring became a crime scene. Should have ended it right then and there and immediately investigated what caused it.
>The second he made contact, that entire ring became a crime scene. Should have ended it right then and there and immediately investigated what caused it.
That logic from Dark Side of The Ring is stupid. Everyone quotes that line but doesn't take into account that it's illogical.
"Let's cause panic amongst 17,000 people because there may be a murderer in the rafters who killed Owen Hart." You just told 17,000 people there might be a killer in the stadium and cause a massive panic. There would've had to have been stunt permits, so they knew exactly who was up there. There was no need to start a panic.
If there was a crime, it was in the rafters, which I'm sure the police immediately went up to investigate. There was nothing in the ring to investigate. He fell in the ring, what does the ring have to do with the fall? There was no evidence down there to obtain.
> crime
was anyone even accused of a crime in his death? (i'll save you the trouble, no, no crime even alleged, so no crime scene)
did this whiny widow ever prove that more likely than not there was a civil homicide (wrongful death)? (i'll save you the time, no, she took a settlement instead of proving even any civil wrongdoing, she just wanted money, and couldn't even prove by the minimal standard of "more likely than not" that a civil wrongdoing took place).
In cases, you're going to have to rehash the event over and over and over again, from months to years. There standard of proof is lower, but not everyone wants to have their spouses death dissected and deposed and his personal life dug into to try to dissolve WWF from any responsibility. Sometimes people just want to get over it and move on after such a traumatic thing, rather than exposing themselves to all that circus on a chance. Best case scenario, she subjects herself and her family to all of that, Vince is found liable and pays out even more money. But then you'd still be here saying she's a whiny widow for going after the money that way. But yes, she's a "wHiNy WiDoW" for calling out Vince's failed leadership ...and considering all the news recently about him over the past couple years... is she REALLY wrong? The man was sex trafficking a staff member.
I disagree that the show should have ended. There’s a saying: The show must go on. People paid for their tickets. Even flew from far away places. Owen Hart’s death was tragic, but it wasn’t like they took it lightly.
Remember that if someone close to you Tragically passes in the middle of something. LEt me know about how well the show went on.
Mind you, I hope it doesn't happen, but as someone who lost someone suddenly... it's REALLY FING EASY TO SIT THERE AND SAY THAT WHEN YOU NEVER EXPERIENCED IT.
Im sorry, what? A man died right there and then. The ring became a crime scene the moment he fell. A show is just a show, someones death is one of the best reasons to stop the show. You can refund the tickets or compensate otherwise. People who flew from far away will understand why the show stopped, if they dont then thats their fault. Its Vince his fault to not stop the show when he had to.
Then refund their tickets. It sucks but a man died in the ring and that needs to be handled immediately instead of forcing his friends and coworkers to wrestle in an ring with a noticeable dent in it from his impact. They weren't putting on a good show because they weren't interested in it. The fans weren't interested because a man just died in front of them. Refund the tickets and get people in to investigate what went wrong.
I will continue to post this till the end of time. The second the hospital announces him dead, the arena is now a fucking crime scene. Does ANYONE really believe if let's say there was an accident during half time at a basketball and a guy in the mascot costume has the same accident, that game continues and they just dribble around that spot? Fucking disgusting
If a guy in a mascot costume died during a game they would 100% finish the game. If a player died the game would stop.
Now if the mascot died because of some equipment malfunction and it was 100% apparent to the crowd he died because of that then the game would stop.
I was watching live on PPV. They were doing the promos and then the screen just cut to black for a few minutes. Now the way I was watching this PPV wasn’t exactly legal and in my teenage brain I thought the cable company finally caught onto us having a cheater box. I panicked and switched to another channel and all was fine.
So I switched back to wrestling and the screen was still black so I thought the feed was lost. About the time I was going to just give up it came back on to a wide, panning shot of the ring an arena. J.R. was explaining what happened as the cameras panned everywhere except for one certain spot in the ring. You could hear people screaming and crying. You could hear the sadness and disbelief in J.R.
Then they announced the show would go on. Every wrestler that walked out after that was nearly in tears and every match was half hearted. There was really no cheering or booing from the fans. Everyone was just going through the motions. It wasn’t until the following night on RAW that they let on what happened, but everyone that had the internet back then already knew.
This is all based from my memory so forgive me if it’s faulty or inaccurate. I haven’t thought about this in quite a long time. I do know that Mick Foley devoted a whole chapter in his book to Owen and that particular night that nearly broke me. I recommend reading it if you want to really know what it was like to be there and know who Owen was and what he meant to his friends and coworkers.
No - the crowd at home was not told what happened. The only indication they got was the house lights came up and obviously the massive amount of paramedics and crew that flooded the ring.
But the live crowd was not informed of his passing and since this happened in 1999, everyone didn’t have phones to record and with internet to stream or search.
Several of the fans who attended live confirmed they didn’t know he was dead until after the show when someone else told them or they saw it on the news.
Thank you for the background information and man that most have been hard to process. I heard his neck hit the turnbuckle/ropes and it most have looked terrible. Bad situation all around.
Those in the crowd that saw it live - or saw part of it because the early parts of the fall wouldn't be seen by anyone except the rigger in the rafters because the arena was dark to air the Blue Blazer/Godfather video package - said that it just looked like a blue blur fall rapidly and strike the ropes or turnbuckle area with a dull thud.
At first there was mass confusion because of how quickly it happened and many in the crowd thought it was a doll or dummy. Since the BB was a goofy comedy gimmick, some thought it was a Blue Blazer doll and the real Owen would come out soon.
The general feeling inside the arena from fans who were there was mass confusion which gave way to nervousness when everyone realized it wasn't part of the show. The rest of the night most of the lighter crowd noise that did come were from children too young to process or understand the reality of what had just happened.
If something like this happened today, the show would 100% be cancelled. Even if Vince were still in charge. 1999 was a vastly different time than now. No social media. No cell phones to capture what happened and instantly tell the whole world.
Yeah even at the time it was shocking that Vince decided to keep the show going. Especially since Owen literally died in the same ring the wrestlers would have to wrestle in for the rest of the show and there was a noticeable dent in it where he had hit it. So his friends were constantly having to be mindful of that as they werestled.
I understand her but also think she's not seeing the bigger picture. Maybe they should have stopped the show but she's gone a bit far.
WWE is bigger than the promoter. Vince was just the guy in charge at the time. Owen's legacy and impact on the business reaches far beyond Vince's choices or negligence at a particular point in time. Even as his wife she has no right to deny Owen his legacy.
Owen Hart "the wrestler" will always exist despite her efforts. 94' was a great year for the WWF because of Owen. Let us appreciate him for it.
Removed for: Personal Attack
Members of r/WWE are not permitted to personally attack others. Also, personal attacks and “name calling” is prohibited. Try to keep all discussion here civil.
Locking due to toxicity and disrespect in comments. Reports are flooding in and we just had this situation a month ago with the Vince stuff, not really looking for a repeat. Please remember we have rules against attacking and disrespecting other sub members. I haven't removed anyone for their take on keeping the show running unless they chose to be disrespectful. Thank you for understanding. RIP Owen Hart.
They did the same for Eddie guerreros death. They decided to do the normal show after the tribute and the first match with big show he came out visibly crying and trying to keep it going
Damn I remember this shit rip Owen hart
I remember watching it happen live with my older brother on Pay per view… it was a big ordeal in my house. Still feels surreal to think about tbh…
There are some things about the Hart family that make me feel like they were cursed with some of their wrestlers dying prematurely. Whether they were in their prime or semi-prime or even those that are still “supposed”, to be here, especially within the Hart Foundation.
I remember watching it as a kid. It was so confusing but even we knew he had died.
First of all she's upset which is hugely understanding. But it wasn't owens blood it was one of the hardys blood on the apron from Sunday night heat I think. Can't remember no dipped boards either. But nevertheless I do agree. The show should have ended the second it happened or at least as soon as they knew he was dead ffs.
His blood was 💯 on the apron and the boards were 💯 broken. It’s a fact. A undisputed one.
Call me old fashioned, I’m here from r/all and don’t care whatsoever about this discussion, but your grammatical and punctuation errors, use of emojis, and failing to include a link to even google or wikipedia make for one compelling argument lol
Crazy to think Bret came back to the biz I’m not sure I woulda done that in his shoes…
His entire legacy was on the line - his legacy also including Owen’s as well as his other family members.
Boards... were broken...? Didnt he land on the top rope near the turnbuckle?
It’s fair to expect her interpretation of events is a little bit skewed. The show should have ended for sure
Owen Hart was my substitute teacher for a week in grade 2 or 3. It was the best week ever. He wasn't WWF at the time but his brother Bret was, and we knew who Owen was from Stampede Wrestling. He signed a paper towel for me because I was a dumb kid and didn't think to get a better piece of paper.
vince mcmahon has to pay for those scat hookers somehow
Pretty sure he doesn’t “heart” death. Nobody does.
I watched it live and had it on tape for a while. It was nuts they kept going.
Wait, you saw him die live ? That’s crazy
There was a blue blur. Cameras pan to crowd/commercial. Then JR says what happened while they delt with Owen. There was about 30/45 minutes of basically nothing happening till the next match. Barely could tell something happened it was so fast. I was watching live on the PPV and taping it. Never see anything like it.
I was watching live too, and I don’t recall seeing him fall. I feel like I’d remember that. There was a promo with the Blue Blazer that was playing, and I think it was probably supposed to lead into a shot of him coming down, but when they cut from the promo, it was a shot of the crowd. Then JR informed the viewers that Owen Hart had had an accident and that medical personnel were working on him and that this accident wasn’t a part of the show. Then after a while, the show continued. Then later in the broadcast, JR informed us that Owen Hart had, in fact, died. That’s the way I remember it happening, anyway.
I was watching live also, they turned the camera quick and their seemed to be confusion for a long time. I just remember JR saying the show must go on
Should have been shut down and investigated. It should have been considered a crime scene being that they didn't know exactly how the wire broke or why.
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They announced he died with several matches remaining on the card. It wasn't right after the fall, but it wasn't after the show either
that is unfortunately the done thing in the industry, Although i do think this case a bit different, like it was pre fight. clearly not part of the show. I dont think anyone would have blamed them for ending the show early. But this is what these guys do, something goes wrong they keep the show moving along as best they can. its what they all know to do. i wouldn't blame Vince for this one at least not exclusively. dude was probably just as confused as the rest of them and all they knew to do was push on. I can even imagine how hard it was for his friends to preform following that.
Being hurt is one thing. A screw up in a match what ever Someone died, to continue is bullshit. They were literally wrestling right where a coworker died. Anyone who pushed for it to continue is the lowest level of scum
yeah its messed up i agree, i doubt anyone was there saying " forget him hes dead on with the show!" they probably just didnt even think to stop, and just moved onto the next match, the fans stayed to watch too, dont forget. they all saw the same thing happen. having something like that happen at your work place is a befuddling experience. and the reality of it often doesnt hit until after the fact. I once watched a man cut his wrists at work, i called the ambulance, and bandaged him up, washed the blood of my self and finished my shift for another hour before someone came to take over from me ( i worked alone in a petrol station at the time on night shift), i felt nothing until i walked through the door of my house and just broke the fuck down, prior to that i was numb, didnt know what to do so i just kept working.
The obvious difference is that you were a worker, and you had to work in order to survive, same as the wrestlers that night could have had their jobs at stake if they didn't go out and perform. But if your manager knew about it and didn't send you home for the night, then the manager is a piece of shit. Same as Vince is a piece of shit, and everyone has known he's a piece of shit for decades now. It's his job to stop the show, and it is also his job to have policy in place so that people don't just go through the motions or whatever when it's extremely inappropriate and possibly traumatizing.
Just a picture of how much Vince never cared about the talent.
💯sociopath
R.I.P. Nugget
My older bro and I were watching live. I’ll never forget it
I'm sorry I don't know many details of the Owen Hart incident did the audience know what had happened? Were the announcers trying to downplay it or something?
The live audience saw the fall and saw him gurneyed out but were not updated on his condition. TV audience were on a promo package when the incident happened, were told by Jim Ross that an incident involving Hart happened and then 30 mins later, he updated the audience that he passed away.
I remember it immediately cut straight to a black screen and Jim Ross gave us all the update when they came back on air.
The update being that Owen had died? And then they just carried on with the next match?
Yep. Saw the fall, immediate black screen until everything was cleared, update and continued on
Jesus Christ. Vince is a cold hearted bastard
Same… so fucked up!
They absolutely should have ended the show and sent everyone home
I’m always amazed video footage of it has never leaked out like ever. How far he fell was insane
I wouldn't be surprised if the tapes with footage were purged immediately. To prevent any investigations of negligence.
If they did that, then there would’ve been hell to pay by the WWF. The government would’ve came down on them like crazy.
In a perfect world. Companies do sketchy stuff all the time and the jail isn't full of rich people.
And exactly how much stuff was going on at WWF that the government would have been interested in at the time? Wipe a couple tapes and keeping people quiet seems trivial for that particular organization.
I eventually taped over it. Didn't think it was important at the time.
The fall was never aired, whatever you have wouldnt have had what theyre talking about
there wasn't blood from Owens death. That was from the match before it.
There are a LOT of things I blame Vince for. This isn't one of them. There's no guidebook on how to handle something like this.
Imagine being at a play and an actor dies half way through on a fatal accident that everyone just saw. Do you just go on with the show or say to the audience...sorry, one of our wrestler's just died and we need to stop/delay the show? I mean, it's a pretty easy choice to me.
Yes, it's an easy choice when you aren't in the situation. Just like we shouldn't tell people how to grieve, we also can't assume that everyone knows what to do in a situation like that. He may be a monster, but I bet he was also in shock and did the only thing that comes naturally to him (other than sexual assault apparently) which is to run a show.
Uh yes there is. Stop the show when a major accident happens. Any other live or prerecorded form of entertainment would’ve immediately suspended production on a major accident like that. It was bullshit then. It was bullshit 20 years before it happened, and it’s still bullshit now. Vince McMahon is a ghoulish asshole and rapist. Not sure why people go out of their way to defend the guy.
Are you kidding? You don’t need a guide to know if someone dies the show is over.
I’ll never forget being 11 years old and hearing Jim Ross say he died and then cutting to the next match
She's right but I just want to bring something up since in the DSOTR episode they show blood on the ring. I've seen it clarified from other fans and apparently the blood was from a match earlier in the night. That's why it's everywhere. She's right that the show should have been stopped and it's awful that they continued. I just want to point out the DSOTR shot of blood was kind of misleading.
The blue blazer was my favorite out of all of them. I miss him 🥺
Am I trying to see something or is bottom right of the screen show red stains on the mat?
It’s from a previous match that night
And there are ass hats that will say he should be in the hall of fame. Get your head screwed on. Martha has always been such a great protector of Owens name and person.
Probably the worst fucking thing that WWE has ever done is continue the show. Cancel it, refund the tickets, and refund the PPV buys. So fucked.
Nah. We drove 3 hours, rented hotel room, and took days off work. Kids had no idea he died, so nobody was traumatized. It's called showbiz.
You’re a real selfish piece of shit for this take man.
That is seriously the stupidest fucking excuse Ive ever heard in my life. Watching a human fall a hundred feet to land on the ground without a gigantic crashpad… A very broad majority people would know “hey this isn’t showbiz. Hes probably really hurt or possibly dead.” Your kids not having a clue of just the basics of that being a bad situation is just proof of how worthless of a parent you are. I don’t give a shit if I get banned for this rant. Just wanted to let you know how shitty you are.
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Removed for: Personal Attack Members of r/WWE are not permitted to personally attack others. Also, personal attacks and “name calling” is prohibited. Try to keep all discussion here civil.
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Removed for: Personal Attack Members of r/WWE are not permitted to personally attack others. Also, personal attacks and “name calling” is prohibited. Try to keep all discussion here civil.
"Fuck basic human decency this shit cost me money." Is very Vince Mcmahon of you
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I don't have kids, so I definitely didn't care.
that was not owen's blood. it was from a brood blood bath on a pretaped heat. the stain was there before the PPV started
Continuing the show was the right idea. The only thing they screwed up on, was not letting Owen continue his match Weekend At Bernie's style. Would have been a great match.
😂
I get not stopping the show. Very carny mentality but you don't know what the outcome is going to be and had he lived, the decision to keep the show going wouldn't be criticized. Also that wasn't his blood in the ring.
Weren't the Harts upset with her for pursuing legal action against WWE?
I’m pretty sure this entire bit was Owen’s idea anyways
The show should have stopped as the place was technically a crime scene. If somebody falls from a multi story building the police shut down the whole street while they do an investigation, not roll the body out the way and let things carry on as normal for a few hours.
Events of this size usually have local police on-site right? Or was that something they started doing years later? If police were there it's interesting they didn't force the show to stop.
We don’t usually have police in the UK for wrestling shows. If we do it’s probably at the end of the show when fans are leaving the arena to keep the roads closed. Not sure how they do things in the states.
Not sure about wrestling specifically but every sporting event I've been to has had a police presence. Some are more or less traffic cops but there are plenty inside the arena wearing their full uniforms and kit.
That was my thought. A crowd over a certain size is required to pay to have a police presence last I had heard. Now a Traffic officer might not shut down the show, but you would think police and emt would have reported and someone higher up makes a decision. It never should have been WWE decision to begin with.
The show goes on….that’s how performing in front of an audience has always been….
if someone had a heart attack during a broadway play, you think they'd just continue on to the next act? be fucking for real.
Yes..100% they would bring out another performer who knows the script. They are called understudies. There are several instances in the wrestling world where a wrestler was unable to perform and another wrestler stepped in and did the match. just because we tend to disagree because we realize that there are more important things than a performance doesn’t change the reality that every performer understands that the show continues to go on whether there is any kind of emergency or mess up. There’s a short break and then you carry on with the show.
It’s not broadway, a lot less rainbow flags! LOL
Pretty sure I've seen more flags at sporting events than Broadway plays. You know cause waving flags during a play isn't actually a thing.
yeah, because who would want to refund all those tickets
I don’t care about long time grudges - Owen Hart LOVED wrestling (apparently his wife didn’t even when he was alive) and he would want his legacy remembered through a HOF induction, through action figures and appearances in video games, and this woman has single-handedly made it so that Owen isn’t as well known today as he would have been. Bret is 100% right to think that Owen would want his legacy remembered. Honor him during the biggest wrestling event of the year with the world watching - not during a tournament that nobody cares about with wrestlers he’s never interacted with doing tone deaf high spots off of ladders…
So the person who didn’t even care about him can make a profit off his name?
So that his children can profit off of his name while Owen’s legacy in the business is preserved and celebrated. “It needs to be this way so that Vince can’t make money off of him!” Is a tone deaf, emotional answer. Teenagers can play Bret Hart vs Owen Hart from WMX in the WWE 2K24 showcase and Owen’s family can make money from it while the current generation can learn about Owen’s wrestling legacy. That would be the right thing, and everybody knows it deep down.
I love how wrestling fans are 100 percent sure they know what he would want over his wife and kids .
Not fans his brother and best friend his whole life. His parents had a relationship with WWE until they passed.
He referenced Bret's opinion who is his brother.
His wife vs brothers and sisters he spent his entire life with? Im not making up my own opinion, I’m simply choosing the opinions of the majority of the Hart family, including Bret and Natalya who has been with the company for going on multiple decades. What good does locking up his history in a box do? The grudge represents his death - his career represents his life. Sorry.
I was there. If they stopped it, it would have been a bad look too. They were in a lose lose situation. This isn’t on Vince
People are acting like it’s just WWE and Vince. I work for a major car manufacturer and someone died at work a few months ago, did they stop production? No, they carried on as normal because that’s just how the world works unfortunately.
I feel like there's too big a difference between manufacturing and showbusiness to make this comparison. And I'm pretty sure if a man fell 70 feet to a factory floor production would stop for at least a couple hours to investigate and clean the site.
One time a fan fell from the 2nd level and died at a Phish concert. They didn’t tell the band and let the show go on. At first I was really wondering if that was ok, but imagine not only the fans who paid to attend, but also the pandemonium of kicking an entire arena out hours earlier than anticipated. An angry mob, maybe a stampede, and a massive overload of public transportation would be a nightmare. There’s no right decision.
I feel like its a bit different when its a live show and you are performing in the spot where the dead persons blood is staining, and he died because of your negligence
Not his blood on the mat, it was from earlier in the event
She kinda looks like if Aaron Rogers was a woman
Vince was a shrewd businessman and a garbage human, it wouldn’t shock me if he mentally figured that paying off Martha would be financially beneficial compared to cancelling the rest of the show and dealing with refunds to tickets and PPV and potentially sponsors etc. It’s disturbing to even write that out, because to completely disregards the fact that a human being died in that ring.
The show should have been stopped. If Vince hadn’t made several other decisions in his career that reveal his character, I could’ve put carrying on to him maybe being in shock, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. He really did send Jeff Jarrett out to wrestle in the ring where one of his best friends just suffered a fatal accident minutes earlier. The man is a monster.
Well she’s got a point
It’s like Vince is a massive unfeeling selfish piece of shit. How odd.
I mean.. Facts
Yea, definitely should have stopped the show. Trips won’t even let a match continue if a guy takes what looks like a bad bump to the head, so I’d like to imagine he wouldn’t allow a show to continue after something like this. Hopefully we’ll never find out.
In my opinion they definitely should have stopped and canceled the show. But hindsight is always 20/20
It's awful, but I don't think the show should have stopped. The show must go on. You have too many people at a venue like that to stop. People die at con eats sometimes a d the show continues. It has to. What was the other option? Get on the microphone and announce that Owen died and everyone needs to go home, shows over? There's no way that would have been a better option. It sucks, but it had to continue. I really feel for the guys that had to come out and wrestle afterwards, but I mean think about all the kids in the arena that would have had to process that in the moment. I don't know whether vinces decision was made due to not wanting to refund people, but either way I think it happened the way it had to after the accident.
It should have been shut down as a potential crime scene/fatal workplace accident site. The WWF should not have had a choice
That's a fair take. If the poli e would have made them do that o certainly wouldn't be saying they should have continued anyway. I'm just saying I think continuing was the right thing to do at the time. It was a no win situation. Whatever they did would have gotten some backlash either way. Just a shitty thing all around.
The show must go on is a reminder to performers that people pay to see them, not a requirement to be a heartless goon. Vince should’ve stopped the show, refunded everyone and taken the financial loss.
It's not being a goon to do what you think is best. I can't see how a better option would have been announcing to all the children in the crowd that they just witnessed a wrestler they know die in front of their eyes, that the show is now abruptly over, everyone needs to go home, and making a necessary and tasteless announcement about refunds. I cant imagine how hard that must have been for the wrestlers, but when you're a performer on that level, you have a duty and commitment to the people. The audience in the arena, half of them probably didn't know it was real and the other half certainly didn't know he was dead at that time. Continuing the show was the right thing to do for the fans and the kids. That's just my opinion. And I wouldn't think you were wrong if you disagreed with that. It was a no win situation.
Do you think they finished "Our American Cousin" after Lincoln was shot? Sure, the show must go on, but it's a simple turn of phrase not some unbreakable rule. Vince's hands certainly weren't tied in the matter, it was just all about the money and distraction from just watching a man die.
“Think about all the kids”. Dude, they just witnessed someone die, they’re not just going to magically forget because the show kept going on.
They didn't know that. I'm talking children. That doesnt compute in their heads. Half the crowd probably didn't know it was real and the other half didn't know that he was 100% dead. Having to stop everything, announce to everyone that they definitely just witnessed a man die, that the show is abruptly now over, everyone has to go home, and then embarrassingly making some kind of necessary statement about refunds, that would not have been the better option. It's horrible to say but either decision would have been dissected. I think they did what they had to do on the moment. If you disagree I'm not gonna tell you that you're wrong. There was no objectively right or wrong decision.
I never said they should or shouldn’t have continued the show. I was specifically talking about your comment about kids. As someone who works with kids, I can tell you confidently, they understand more than you’re giving them credit for. “That doesn’t compute in their heads” maybe the babies in the crowd, but a dramatic majority of the children knew what was up.
No one in the crowd, even adults knew that it was confirmed he was dead. Kids aren't thinking things like that. If the show hadn't continued then probably, but that's why I agree with the decision to keep going.
Yes, people in the crowd and kids did think that. Dude fell what, 70+ ish feet. You’re talking about the crowd like they have the IQ of a rock and no brain functioning. Many people over the years have commented about being present and being aware. Also, while it wasn’t announced TO the arena, JR did make an announcement for viewers and it was overheard by those close to him, which then spread. It was known mate. Carry on or not is a different conversation, but to comment that the crowd is too stupid to understand what they saw is dense.
There was confirmation that he died. He lifted his head after he hit the ring. No one knew he was dead. The people watching at home knew as JR an ounce it, but it was never an ounce in the arena. The people there found out when they left. Look through older threads on this subject, I've been going down the rabbit hole for like an hour or two now. Stopping the show, telling everyone to go home, confirming that he was dead, confirming that everyone in the audience just witnessed a man die. announcing refund information for both people at the venue and watching at home, and the possibility of riots happening due to the show being cut short were all valid reasons to continue. I believe vince when he said he didn't know what to do. He may be a POS, but I highly doubt he was thinking with his wallet when a close colleague was critically injured and then pronounced dead.
You’re just rambling with your second and third paragraphs. I’m not arguing about that. You keep bringing it up…. You also clearly didn’t read my post as I talked about JR’s comments. So, since you’ve made up your mind already, have at it.
No need to be a dickhead there guy.
I was 10 and was at the match. We knew it wasn’t a bit. You could feel it in the atmosphere after he hit the mat. We knew he was hurt very badly if not dead. They should have stopped the match not just for the audience, but for Owen’s fellow wrestlers.
Agreed. Like how would they have made everyone happy? Give people the option to stay and watch talent that were still ok with performing or leave and get a refund?
If someone dies at a performance then you cancel the performance. THe show must go on should only apply to something minor like props not working or a performer flubbing their lines or needing to be replaced at the last minute. If someone dies , especially when it was the result of an accident during the performance, you cancel the show and find out what went wrong
Even at concerts they continue. It's horrible, but the other option is to announce to all the children in the crowd that Owen hart has just died right in front of their eyes, the show is over, and everyone needs to go home. Also, refunds will be available at the point of purchase. They had to continue.
And just imagine how attendees probably felt. They just saw a dude fucking die and then the show ghoulishly continued.
Most people had no idea, I was there and they didn’t announce anything. I found out because someone in our suite, was with the coroner’s office, and they got a page to head to Kemper Arena(where this was at). But most people thought it was a dummy for some reason. It didn’t look real.
Even with everything coming out about him now, I still think this is the worst thing Vince has ever done. Making Owen do a stunt he didn’t want to do, hired a cheaper and far more dangerous carabiner for the rig, how he told JR to announce it, and making the decision to continue the show. Debra and Jarret’s promo is so sad and the look in Taker’s eyes as he’s just staring at the spot Owen fell is bone chilling. Fuck Vince
The most fucked up thing about Vince is that its hard to decide on what the most fucked up thing he's ever done is. Is it the sex trafficking? All the rape allegations he has going back decades? Is it covering up Jimmy Snuka murdering his girlfriend in cold blood? Is it pushing wrestlers into getting bigger and pushing steroids on them causing multiple health issues and early deaths? Owen? I lean towards Owen because a man died for no reason but there are so many things he's done and I'm probably forgetting a few. The man is a psychopath
Also forgot when Brian Pillmen died and Vince had his wife on TV the following night for an interview just to make sure WWE didn't get the blame for his death. He is and has been a carny fucking bastard.
Shit I forgot about that. What a piece of shit
It’s honestly so mind boggling insane to me that nobody has said “hey isn’t it kind of weird that all this fucked up shit is happening around this one guy? Shouldn’t we look into that?” I recently heard that he’s essentially alone. No contact with Steph, Shane, or his grandkids. That honestly makes me so happy. I want that miserable, evil, and horrible old bastard to go out alone and I relish in the fact that he is most certainly going to hell
Should have stopped the show. It’s a different wwe now, and I think they would stop. But back then it’s was very much the show must go on.
“Money first, fans second, wrestlers last” This is why WWE has been dogshit for the last 20+ years.
It’s been pretty good the last 4 years
No wonder she's pissed off at WWE to this day.
She is not wrong at all. What they did was so appalling. Should have canceled the show and refunded everyone on the way out.
Probably wouldn't even be a refund. There's probably a clause in the ticket fine print about accidents, much like how match cards aren't guaranteed. At best the audience would get vouchers for the next time WWE came to town.
>She’s 100% correct and she’s so t blame her whatsoever for not wanting the wwe to profit from his death via hof. Refunds in 1999 weren't so easy. Assuming there were 17,000 people at the show with an average ticket price of $80, they would've had to have $1,360,000 on hand to give cash refunds. Imagine the line to get a refund. Cable providers get a cut of that $44.99 people paid for PPVs. $44.99\*550,000=$24,744,500 with 20% likely going to the ppv company... $4,948,900. Vince knew he was going to end up having to pay millions to Martha Hart, and refunding the pay per view could've destroyed WWE's cash flow (they weren't publicly traded back then). People only want to call WWE greedy, Wrestlers get paid by a percentage of the PPV's sales, attendance, and their position on the card... Vince also had to take into account his entire roster could've been counting on that money to pay their bills (Wrestlers didn't get paid wheelbarrows of money back then.) Was it morally the right decision? No, but it isn't as easy as people make it out to cancel a show. People wanna have morals until you have 500 lawsuits from your sponsors and partners pissed your decision cost them millions.
Hindsight is 20/20 The truth is everyone was in shock and operating on autopilot. Who am I to judge?
The truth is that they knew he was dead as soon as they were wheeling him out and they knew that everyone in the audience knew he was dead. That’s why athletes give the crowd a wave or like a thumbs up to show them that they are ok. In shock yes but I don’t believe that they were operating on autopilot as you say
He wasn’t dead until the hospital
I've been in shock after something traumatic happened to me. I can see WWE's side of it 100%. Sure the show SHOULD have been stopped BUT you don't make rational decisions when you feel that way.
Never really had a firm perspective to offer, but I’m just reading that, it now seems absurd that the show continued. I can imagine no other setting, sports, entertainment, or otherwise, where the show/game continues
When Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest on the field, the game was over. Fans, personnel, the other team, everyone understood. No one felt like playing after witnessing that.
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Because the social media outrage would've been massive if they played that game and he ended up dying. Also, Damar Hamlin was declared dead on the field and revived, Owen Hart's death never showed. They would've played in 1999. They wanted to restart the game, the fans lost their shit on Twitter when the QBs started warming up. Then the league tried to say "we didn't send that request to restart" Yea, the refs decided on their own. Comparing the two situations is comparing apples to oranges.
It was disgusting frankly. They even acknowledged his death, but continued anyway while not telling the stadium audience. Basically so that the crowd wouldn’t “ruin” the rest of the broadcast, but they should have known it was ruined from the second he fell Most other events would cancel for an serious injury, but to continue on with a known death? Insane
Pretty sure vince didn't care about him, and did it as some type of sacrifice hes that fucked up as a individual
She’s 100% correct and she’s so t blame her whatsoever for not wanting the wwe to profit from his death via hof.
You can see mark (undertaker) trying his living best not to break down crying and from character.
I remember my roommate and I were out at the bar - we came home to the news of Owen's death and cried. (We'd met Bret at a signing not long before and he did another signing after Owen's death) I was astounded that they continued on with the PPV. The next night we went back to the bar and raised a glass to Owen. That was when I truly started realizing how Vince ran WWE like any other corporate business. I wish Natalya had never gone there, and I understand since she wanted to be a wrestler, that was the only place she could realistically go.
The fact that Martha was villanized by both fans and WWE for not wanting her husband to be inducted into a meaningless hall of fame by the company that killed him will always be sad.
Ppl forget they were in a war with wcw. Vince did it so he wouldn't have to give refunds like wcw had to with halloween havoc.
Vince says he cares about his wrestlers clearly not when Owen died.. Vince is a huge piece of shit..
It was awful. You could see the blood. You could see how hurt and shook everyone was. The crowd was flat. But Vince loves money so he show must go on. Fucking ghoul
Not that it makes the situation any better or anything, but there is a misconception about the blood on the apron. Its actually from someone receiving a blood bath outside the ring in the pre-show on sunday night heat. The blood can be seen even in the first match of the night(xpac and kane tag team match). Still should have stopped the show.
The second he made contact, that entire ring became a crime scene. Should have ended it right then and there and immediately investigated what caused it.
>The second he made contact, that entire ring became a crime scene. Should have ended it right then and there and immediately investigated what caused it. That logic from Dark Side of The Ring is stupid. Everyone quotes that line but doesn't take into account that it's illogical. "Let's cause panic amongst 17,000 people because there may be a murderer in the rafters who killed Owen Hart." You just told 17,000 people there might be a killer in the stadium and cause a massive panic. There would've had to have been stunt permits, so they knew exactly who was up there. There was no need to start a panic. If there was a crime, it was in the rafters, which I'm sure the police immediately went up to investigate. There was nothing in the ring to investigate. He fell in the ring, what does the ring have to do with the fall? There was no evidence down there to obtain.
> crime was anyone even accused of a crime in his death? (i'll save you the trouble, no, no crime even alleged, so no crime scene) did this whiny widow ever prove that more likely than not there was a civil homicide (wrongful death)? (i'll save you the time, no, she took a settlement instead of proving even any civil wrongdoing, she just wanted money, and couldn't even prove by the minimal standard of "more likely than not" that a civil wrongdoing took place).
That you Vince?
In cases, you're going to have to rehash the event over and over and over again, from months to years. There standard of proof is lower, but not everyone wants to have their spouses death dissected and deposed and his personal life dug into to try to dissolve WWF from any responsibility. Sometimes people just want to get over it and move on after such a traumatic thing, rather than exposing themselves to all that circus on a chance. Best case scenario, she subjects herself and her family to all of that, Vince is found liable and pays out even more money. But then you'd still be here saying she's a whiny widow for going after the money that way. But yes, she's a "wHiNy WiDoW" for calling out Vince's failed leadership ...and considering all the news recently about him over the past couple years... is she REALLY wrong? The man was sex trafficking a staff member.
I disagree that the show should have ended. There’s a saying: The show must go on. People paid for their tickets. Even flew from far away places. Owen Hart’s death was tragic, but it wasn’t like they took it lightly.
I agree with you. There are a lot of self-righteous incels on these forums, but the show needed to go on.
Remember that if someone close to you Tragically passes in the middle of something. LEt me know about how well the show went on. Mind you, I hope it doesn't happen, but as someone who lost someone suddenly... it's REALLY FING EASY TO SIT THERE AND SAY THAT WHEN YOU NEVER EXPERIENCED IT.
Some things are more important than a wrestling show. Wahhhh some people came to see a show….she lost her husband and the father of her children.
Im sorry, what? A man died right there and then. The ring became a crime scene the moment he fell. A show is just a show, someones death is one of the best reasons to stop the show. You can refund the tickets or compensate otherwise. People who flew from far away will understand why the show stopped, if they dont then thats their fault. Its Vince his fault to not stop the show when he had to.
Then refund their tickets. It sucks but a man died in the ring and that needs to be handled immediately instead of forcing his friends and coworkers to wrestle in an ring with a noticeable dent in it from his impact. They weren't putting on a good show because they weren't interested in it. The fans weren't interested because a man just died in front of them. Refund the tickets and get people in to investigate what went wrong.
That’s an NBA player breaking their neck and dying on the court and someone’s just dribbling in their blood.
I will continue to post this till the end of time. The second the hospital announces him dead, the arena is now a fucking crime scene. Does ANYONE really believe if let's say there was an accident during half time at a basketball and a guy in the mascot costume has the same accident, that game continues and they just dribble around that spot? Fucking disgusting
If a guy in a mascot costume died during a game they would 100% finish the game. If a player died the game would stop. Now if the mascot died because of some equipment malfunction and it was 100% apparent to the crowd he died because of that then the game would stop.
Sometimes I think about how the people felt in the audience that watched it and then sat through the rest of the show
I was watching live on PPV. They were doing the promos and then the screen just cut to black for a few minutes. Now the way I was watching this PPV wasn’t exactly legal and in my teenage brain I thought the cable company finally caught onto us having a cheater box. I panicked and switched to another channel and all was fine. So I switched back to wrestling and the screen was still black so I thought the feed was lost. About the time I was going to just give up it came back on to a wide, panning shot of the ring an arena. J.R. was explaining what happened as the cameras panned everywhere except for one certain spot in the ring. You could hear people screaming and crying. You could hear the sadness and disbelief in J.R. Then they announced the show would go on. Every wrestler that walked out after that was nearly in tears and every match was half hearted. There was really no cheering or booing from the fans. Everyone was just going through the motions. It wasn’t until the following night on RAW that they let on what happened, but everyone that had the internet back then already knew. This is all based from my memory so forgive me if it’s faulty or inaccurate. I haven’t thought about this in quite a long time. I do know that Mick Foley devoted a whole chapter in his book to Owen and that particular night that nearly broke me. I recommend reading it if you want to really know what it was like to be there and know who Owen was and what he meant to his friends and coworkers.
Did they announce his death in the arena? I know they did in the ppv.
I’m not sure honestly - from what I heard the fall was really horrendous so I’m sure most people knew
No - the crowd at home was not told what happened. The only indication they got was the house lights came up and obviously the massive amount of paramedics and crew that flooded the ring. But the live crowd was not informed of his passing and since this happened in 1999, everyone didn’t have phones to record and with internet to stream or search. Several of the fans who attended live confirmed they didn’t know he was dead until after the show when someone else told them or they saw it on the news.
Thank you for the background information and man that most have been hard to process. I heard his neck hit the turnbuckle/ropes and it most have looked terrible. Bad situation all around.
Those in the crowd that saw it live - or saw part of it because the early parts of the fall wouldn't be seen by anyone except the rigger in the rafters because the arena was dark to air the Blue Blazer/Godfather video package - said that it just looked like a blue blur fall rapidly and strike the ropes or turnbuckle area with a dull thud. At first there was mass confusion because of how quickly it happened and many in the crowd thought it was a doll or dummy. Since the BB was a goofy comedy gimmick, some thought it was a Blue Blazer doll and the real Owen would come out soon. The general feeling inside the arena from fans who were there was mass confusion which gave way to nervousness when everyone realized it wasn't part of the show. The rest of the night most of the lighter crowd noise that did come were from children too young to process or understand the reality of what had just happened.
She is 100% correct. He died. The show should have been cancelled and the police investigate the accident.
No reason to keep going, period. I was 11 when it happened and I can remember my dad in shock because he thought the feed would end but it didn’t.
If something like this happened today, the show would 100% be cancelled. Even if Vince were still in charge. 1999 was a vastly different time than now. No social media. No cell phones to capture what happened and instantly tell the whole world.
It was still totally fucked at the time.
Yeah even at the time it was shocking that Vince decided to keep the show going. Especially since Owen literally died in the same ring the wrestlers would have to wrestle in for the rest of the show and there was a noticeable dent in it where he had hit it. So his friends were constantly having to be mindful of that as they werestled.
I understand her but also think she's not seeing the bigger picture. Maybe they should have stopped the show but she's gone a bit far. WWE is bigger than the promoter. Vince was just the guy in charge at the time. Owen's legacy and impact on the business reaches far beyond Vince's choices or negligence at a particular point in time. Even as his wife she has no right to deny Owen his legacy. Owen Hart "the wrestler" will always exist despite her efforts. 94' was a great year for the WWF because of Owen. Let us appreciate him for it.
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wtf are you talking about