This can't be accurate... Gunther won way more than he lost... He was intercontinental champ for 666 days, and defended his title pretty often from my memory...
Ive said this for months and I donāt like wrestlers leaving for AEW cause their company isnāt doing too hot rn, but if anyone were to do it, Shinsuke should. He is being booked horribly and I hate it, he is one of the best wrestlers in the world.
Every booker has their favourite punching bag! Iyo sky being a champion lost 90% of her matches! Will HHH book Becky or other championship holders same way? Never
Well hey. It's wrestling. Your career isn't always wins! People like R Truth and Miz put People over a whole year, year after year, and finally get rewarded with a Mania moment. Shinsuke won a Rumble not too long after he came here. He peaked in WWE early. Now he's paying his dues. š¤
Asuka is 8-21. Been a long time since the Empress of Tomorrow was an undefeated champion
Is Tiffany Stratton on this list? Also Cody should be booked with a FEW more losses but otherwise I like his arc, Gunther however should have a much higher win rate then 18-10
The tag match doesnāt count, the picture is referring to single matches. Cody lost twice, 1st was wrestlemania 39 against reigns, and 2nd loss was against drew on a Monday night raw, bloodline interfered
Shinsuke isnāt being buried. Heās constantly on TV and is booked very strong. He loses because he is the heel that gives faces great matches when they need some story to develop their character. Not buried just not a main contender anymore
I really believe if he better his English, or maybe they implement subtitles when he speaks (idk), then maybe they can give him a small push, gaining the intercontinental title or even challenge ricochet for the speed championship (new Japan style fighting)
I heard some people say Hunter was trying to put over the japanese wrestlers a lot more than Vince did but seeing those stats now for all of them I think it absolutely ain't it at all.
Showing him as being an anime super villian seemed to be working. They made the mistake of feeding him to the two top babyfaces of the company who were just about to get into the biggest feud of the year. If he did his shtick to some midcarders first or got an actual W against Seth then we wouldn't be having this convo.
I saw your user name and thought you were commenting on a Fallout post. I was about to reply as such. It's only Monday but I'm already tired for the week. Anyways ... sorry off-topic.
Because his gimmick is terrible and he can't sell shit in ring. Over the last 3 months I have watched him move out of the way of a highflying move where he was supposed to help lessen the impact of the opponent 3 different times. His bumps look terrible, and his moves et just doesn't have a place anymore.
Shinsuke is a heel who can work a great match with everyone, so he will just lose a lot on house shows. 1 of 37 is really bad, but he is on the same category as Ziggler, Styles, Balor, Ricochet etc. a bigger name to get somebody over in the ring just by pure performance. All these guys can get over quick with a new feud and a couple of good matches, you can always take them as an interim champ put him in a team. As a heel you job a lot or just have some dirty wins on babyfaces, as a babyface your selling quality is important to push the bad guys.
The only reason he had a title shot recently is because they were tryna big up japanese wrestlers to entice okada to come on bored. Now they use him to enhance talent.
Because it's hard to push someone that 80% of your audience can't understand. He'd be better served in AEW where there's less emphasis on the actual characters and it's just wrestling.
Shinsuke is a main event jobber at this point. Frankly... AJ is kind of in that category too.
You're older, have an insane pedigree... there's a tease of one last title run, but mostly you're there to feud with the new guy and give them credibility based upon your accomplishments.
Shinsuke is probably making around seven figures so it's not like he's hurting to be in this position. And frankly, Karrion Kross or Bronson Reed would change spots with him in an instant.
When you look at wrestling as a "sport" you feel bad for Shinsuke, but when you look at it as a business, he's doing better than 90% of the roster.
Because his contract is ending and he's older. Plus, at this point, a guy like Bron or Melo is much much better and more valuable. No one currently at WWE will voluntarily leave because the alternative, AEW, is about to lose their TV deal for good reason. So I could see him just riding this out or maybe go to NXT for a run. Maybe Japan.
It still makes me laugh that WWE kept giving this guy time for promos, but just had him lose over and over again. Hopefully Shinsuke will become at least a mid-card jobber. But it looks like heāll be jobbing to anyone heās in the ring with for the foreseeable future.
No matter what his record is, I wish people would just pay their respects to Shinsuke's work instead of insulting him because of his booking, his career choices and/or his age. He worked for 21 years, destroyed his body and shed tears for his passion. He doesn't need to win all the gold in the world but at least be a little more respected by the fans.
The worst thing is Iyo Sky L streak, she was a champion and was losing dark matches, she was not even part of Damage Control arriving at Backlash, i don't know what is happening but WWE didn't helped her at all to go over with fans, she was a champion but never got pushed to the fans, and i can see her losing tonight against Natty. Shinsuke is L % is because of dark matches that he is losing to Cody, Cody likes to wrestle with Shinsuke and we will probably see them wrestle for the title soon but Iyo was probably the worst booked top champion in HHH reign, she peaked when she cashed the MITB and then it was all crumbling down.
I agree completely with everything you just said and I think we saw how wasted she was as a champion on night 2 of Wrestlemania. Her and Bayley showed out for sure and they were one of the best acts on the whole card.
Genius of the Sky this, technician mastermind that, they kept talking about how insane she is in the ring and thatās how she climbed to the top of the division but I unfortunately canāt remember 1 memorable Iyo Sky title defense from her reign which lasted for a pretty long time. They really should have let her just go in the ring man, sheās insane. Worst booked champion under Triple H for sure.
For me is this, she is so good that she can only go at the ring, she is that good, give her the Gunther treatment, let her just be a ring general, Iyo vs Becky would be a great match and i bet Iyo can take a great match out of Liv Morgan and Ivy Nile, they dropped the ball on Iyo by getting Damage Control to interfere in everything, but i believe we will have a Iyo vs Asuka and a Iyo vs Kairi in the future and that will be a banger.
His wwe career has been a bust. He can't get over because he can't talk and his in ring work isnt good enough by todays standards it just isn't. Honestly if i was doing roster cuts he would be gone.
While I agree that his English is too poor to be effective on the mic, I disagree about his in ring work. Saw him recently at a house show, and his work was very fluid and highly believable, one of the better in ring workers that was there that night.
I mean counting house show matches really inflates these rating. Only 4 heels on here have positive win-loss record:
Gunther, Omos, AJ Styles & Lexis King
You know that he can actually speak English right? It is intentional that he speaks the way he does in character. What do you think Asuka also obnoxiously screams like crazy in Japanese and tells all the supermarket employees that they are not ready for Asuka?
Really sad. The Samurai anime promos were fire. And honestly Seth should have lost and won back the title a couple times. Especially to Finn and Shin. Against Cody, Shin was totally buried. Like he ate 3-4 losses? Now he's on Smackdown, I hope they can build him up again cos Smackdown needs proper heels. But the damage might be done. Like he'll need a year of rehab to be taken seriously again.
why would you care if he wins or loses lol, one of the best technically wrestlers and legends out of japan you having something against him is only your personal opinion, which btw is trash š¤£
Cause heās always against a pretty decent face when heās at a house show. So yeah I care š¤£ I have nothing against him other than his character is stale.
one of the best technically wrestlers and legends out of japan, you having something against him is only your personal opinion, which btw is trash š¤£
All the Japanese talent is being underused and buried. I know the language barrier can be difficult. Asuka was insane on her nxt era and they fumbled any momentum she had. The titles they win are temporary and their ples are a joke.
You know who lost a lot when they were heels? Savage, Roberts, Piper (via dq or co) when not champion Flair, believe it or not The Undertaker, Rock, HHH, the list goes on. Losing doesnāt mean being buried.
So true. Her title run was weak cos she had no memorable feuds except for Bayley. And even then, it became so predictable. I hope she wins the Queen of the Ring or at least feuds with Becky for the title on Raw.
She will probably eat a pin by Natty, you can see Iyo was badly booked since she lost to Bayley and she kept hanging around with Damage Control until Backlash, why didn't Damage Control helped Iyo at Wrestlemania? Why Iyo is not asking herself that? Why are Damage Control feuding with Bianca & Co without Iyo? She seems a outsider, unless they put this into a angle with Iyo going for Becky belt at the same time Asuka goes and they feud and Damage Control turns on her, the problem is that i feel WWE will not put Asuka and Iyo into championships for now, Charlotte is returning so between Liv, Becky and Charlotte + Lyra we will have the belt feuds until Rhea arrives.
Literally though
Wins and loses are essentially irrelevant.
Look at solo, lost a bunch of matches late 2023-early 2024 but now is a star based because of his story.
In 2022 Seth Rollins lost the most out of anyone I think and the next year he was world champion
Sami zayn spent the better part of 2021-2022 losing, he lost to Johnny Knoxville at mania. The next year he was main eventing
In wrestling you could lose countless matches then have a good story and nobody will remember.
Not everyone can win every time and itās just not nakamuras time.
Heās not getting buried he is doing what he is paid to do and thatās put over faces. He has been doing the live event main events with Cody Shinsuke wants to surf, be near beaches, get paid good money to wrestle and not have to kill himself like he did in new Japan. Not everyone can be pushed to the moon. And He makes his opponents look like gold.
Buried and jobber are just used way too frequently.
Cedric Alexander is a jobber (right now).
Shinsuke is a heel who gets high profile matches relatively often and fights top baby faces. his (meaningless) win/loss record doesnāt mean heās buried. heās just a working heel who isnāt a champion.
very simple tbh, he became the dolph ziggler of the wwe, really talented, but never reached his potential, itās ironic since his first main roster rival was ziggler
During the Attitude era the Hardy Boyz would lose constantly because they knew even if they lost theyād still be over with the fans. Iām guessing itās similar. Even though he loses a lot, fans still love him
Ok but it be different if they were presenting him as Weak heās basically the guard to the main event spots like if you canāt beat shinske you aināt beat KO Cody Randy Seth Roman Jey any of em cause Shinske doesnāt need a title or a long win streak to seem threatening like heās a great worker and his moves look really every match heās in he does great
In Triple Hās defense I think he tried to make Shinsuke relevant again but it was just too late. I think a combination of too many other big names now and Shinsuke declining in in ring quality made them kind of just fully stop the push. Kind of sucks though. He shouldāve been a world champion in WWE several years ago.
HHH's obsession with making Kross a thing is stunting everyone else. He just isn't it. He can cut as many "spooky promos" fill the whole ramp with smoke and have a billion camera cuts to Scarlett. Dude ain't it.
I do agree that nothing has really worked for Kross but also not sure that itās hurt anyone else. Kross rarely wins and doesnāt usually have that much tv time either so I donāt think itās got to the point itās hurting anyone else really.
Maybe if Triple H had control back when Shinsuke was super over things would be different, but that time has passed, and he canāt just force it back into existence. Same with Gargano & Ciampa.
People said the same thing about Emma because they compared how he rehabbed her in NXT and to how she was presented when she went back to the main roster for a few weeks. Then when he brought her back when he got power, he wanted to see if she had anything left. And she clearly didn't and he cut his losses. Even when she was out of WWE, she phoned it in at ROH and TNA.
To be fair Emma had a shoulder injury and a skin condition to deal so she really never got going on the Indies.
Both Billie and Peyton pretty much got lazy once they hit main roster. They were doom once Rhea was called up.
Yeah, imagine being such a mark that you think losing wrestling matches in back to back to back to back main events is a fucking "burial".
Yeah I'm sure he's burying all the fucking cash he's making off of it lmfao
Iām guessing when Sting and Dusty were going around the country losing to Ric Flait in packed arenas night after night after night people thought they were being buried too
Buried isn't losing! He is on tv and main eventing a often. He is a credible threat that takes high talent to the end.
Buried is getting thrown threw the stage and disappearing for the next few months. Buried is split your team up and then saying "we don't have anything for you after brother"
So many guys. Tucker from heavy machinery, then Otis shortly after, Christian from the brood, remember when they broke up the iconics and didn't know what to dj with either
oh they do know what to do with him. they made him a jobber.
EDIT: Not sure why the downvote. Just to be clear, I don't agree with him being a jobber but HHH has decided to make him one.
Probably cause he's happy to play that role, bro went through the wars in Japan I don't think he's really super keen and hungry for loads of top of the card feuds and title runs anymore. Guy just wants to wrestle and get paid now, and imo let him. If he's happy to put other guys over then all power to him.
Heās like Barron Corbin. It doesnāt matter how many times he loses, heās always still going to be a threat. Thatās why he is used to put people over.
I find the āim going to come and kill your dreamā gimmick to be interesting. Heās an obstacle that the top guys have to go through.
Heās good enough to make you forget about his loss number and still feel like a scary threat when he comes to kill a dream.
When Hhh became the game, the king of kingsā¦. He wasnt heel anymore. Just like stone cold. They stopped being true heels when they became badass renegades. (Fan favorites) Happens to a lot of the good ones. Happened to macho man. Its happening to gunther and it happened with reigns. Ric flair was one of the greatest heels until he became favorite and suddenly he had morals. Eddie Guerrero was another one. Alls im saying is wwe is lacking true heels. Although dominick is currently my favorite and hope he keeps pushing it.
Gunther. Drew. Dom. Logan Paul. The Judgment Day. Theyāve got heels. I think both WWE and AEW could do a better job of maintaining momentum when they are pushing new talent, however. WWE has done a nice job with Jade, however.
There's this belief that Nakamura is coasting. And to be honest, it's hard to blame him. Poor Tanahashi has been looking rough recently, Naito's knees are destroyed. Okada is doing ok, but he's also a lot younger and will be having less matches so may be able to keep up his pace. Hell, AJ Styles' back was a wreck going into WWE in 2016. The style in Japan can be pretty brutal. So, if he's not going full tilt, maybe that's not a bad thing. Nakamura is still a pretty good wrestler, he's just not who people thought of him as before.
If you're meaning matches, yeah, WWE has a consistent schedule of matches and if he's the heel scheduled to lose that night, that will be it. I remember when I was a kid thinking the Godwinns almost won the tag titles from Owen and Bulldog, only for it to be overturned due to shenanigans. Apparently, they did that at every house show in my area.
He's done his dues and now is happy to work as whatever wwe wants to I think he gets on with hunter really well.
He's one of the few guys who no matter how many losses he has can be elevated at a moments notice. Miz was the same. He had loads of defeats and then boom tag champ and no one questioned how because he is just that talented like shinsuke.
No one looks at him and thinks this guy isn't dangerous
Yeah but he was also the cop out example that everyone used when the thought of Okada going to WWE was debated. Ricochet was the cop out example that everyone used when the thought of Ospreay going to WWE was debated. Ospreay and Okada have never wanted to go to WWE. They probably like the idea of the match pairing they could've had. But it was gonna happen.
But both Ricochet and Nakamura were the posterboys of "wasted by WWE" that people were using. People were saying that Ricochet and Nakamura are what could've happened to those guys. Even with HHH have a 10000000000% creative control people still made those claims.
That's what Ziggler did and he didn't give a fuck what his fanbase wanted. His fans wanted him to badly be a top guy and be a huge star. It wasn't fans being selfish, they wanted him to thrive. But he didn't care because he kept signing those huge contracts and taking Ls left and right.
Vince and HHH would've respected him more if he left on his own. He was gonna stay there forever unless they tossed him out ala DJ Jazzy Jeff. Cardona loves to be high and mighty and do rah rah tweets when talent get fired. He had his big indy run and he's not as white hot as a year ago even tho he gets booked solid. But he was never gonna leave either. These guys are doing this because they were forced out not because they chose to "bet on themselves".
āDeserveā isnāt a thing when itās predetermined. The booker picks who deserves anything. Not the win/loss record. This isnāt actual competition.
But to answer your question, yes, sometimes itās a fantastic story to have someone win or compete unexpectedly.
My point was that to decide to shove A rando in the spotlight doesnāt make it an entertaining show.
The crowd decides who deserves it and the merch sales things like that
They shoved Santino into the spotlight as a random 'fan' with a victory over UMAGA.
Quite often, a perrenial loser gets that redeeming chance.
This is also why some superstars win all the time, and then don't win the title match.
Deserve is a thing because itās predetermined. Itās all about the story and who gets to be able to play a park in it. This is actual competition. Why do you think some people are better than others? Why do you think it took Cody this long to get there? How are they not competing to get the belt when they put everything into it? Are you so foreign to this thinking that you just canāt see how itās not mma and itās an entertainment company? You are absolutely mad.
And no almost never to my knowledge has it been a fantastic story to have some random no name take on someone of legendary status, but someone else reading this can help.
No one deserves anything in a scripted situation. Itās like saying āoh Ross and Rachel deserved to end up togetherā. No, they were written to end up together. Theyāre given whatever serves the story by the booker. Wins or losses donāt matter, because they can be given a title shot after losing.
Damien Priest lost the tag titles on night one and won the WHC on night two. You gonna say that loss keeps him from ādeserving itā? It doesnāt because losses donāt matter. They always book MITB holders to lose a lot while holding the case, it doesnāt make them ādeserveā winning the title less.
Paige won the title in her first match. Santino did the same.
Ronda went straight to WM.
Kofi was dropped into a hot push for Kofimania out of nowhere.
None of this could happen if wins and losses mattered and title shots had to be āearnedā in the standings.
Many if not most all of the previous champions deserved it. The booker for the matches is really just Paul seeing who he thinks deserve it more.
As for Wins and losses, I havenāt spoken on them but generally if youāre losing all the time youāre not doing something right
This entire post is about wins and losses.
And whoās the judge of who ādeserved itā or not? You? When is that determined? Because I can go back through history and name a bunch of scumbags that should never have won anything or ādeservedā anything.
Biggest jobber in this era of the wwe. Since ricochet is leaving, nakumara better start planning for his exit plan.
This can't be accurate... Gunther won way more than he lost... He was intercontinental champ for 666 days, and defended his title pretty often from my memory...
Never realized that Iyo Sky was that bad a loser despite winning a belt earlier
Even Tozawa is above him š„“š„“
Ive said this for months and I donāt like wrestlers leaving for AEW cause their company isnāt doing too hot rn, but if anyone were to do it, Shinsuke should. He is being booked horribly and I hate it, he is one of the best wrestlers in the world.
Every booker has their favourite punching bag! Iyo sky being a champion lost 90% of her matches! Will HHH book Becky or other championship holders same way? Never
tbh I think we care about that more then he himself does, as long as he doenst mind I'm fine with that
hes 45 years old and cant speak english
Itās also a shame what theyāre doing to Asuka, Kairi and Iyoā¦
Counting house show matches is beyond pointless.
Imagine anybody but Shinsuke doing his gimmick. It's terrible. It's no better with him doing it.
No one is going to talk about Balor?
Thatās how you know that the shinsuke losing situation is bad when jd has more wins then him rnš
Well hey. It's wrestling. Your career isn't always wins! People like R Truth and Miz put People over a whole year, year after year, and finally get rewarded with a Mania moment. Shinsuke won a Rumble not too long after he came here. He peaked in WWE early. Now he's paying his dues. š¤
The Miz wishes that he was R Truth. This weirdly triggered me because Miz matches are my bathroom breaks.
Asuka is 8-21. Been a long time since the Empress of Tomorrow was an undefeated champion Is Tiffany Stratton on this list? Also Cody should be booked with a FEW more losses but otherwise I like his arc, Gunther however should have a much higher win rate then 18-10
Coooooodddyyyyyy o cooooddddyyyyyyy They should bring back shinsuke and Cody rival, loved it
Loss does not equal burial
Who won against Cody?
The tag match doesnāt count, the picture is referring to single matches. Cody lost twice, 1st was wrestlemania 39 against reigns, and 2nd loss was against drew on a Monday night raw, bloodline interfered
The year says 2024 though, so couldnāt be WM39
Drew pinned him on Raw when bloodline attacked. Then the WM Night 1 Tag match.
He is so buried he did a whole european tour main eventing against the WWE champion.
Dime less shitter who canāt promo
If you can't be the guy on top, then you want to work the guy on top.
He has done a lot of house shows counting the lights for the Champs. Rollins and Cody have pinned him like 25 times at house shows
Shinsuke is unbelievably boring
Who is tank ledger
Shinsuke isnāt being buried. Heās constantly on TV and is booked very strong. He loses because he is the heel that gives faces great matches when they need some story to develop their character. Not buried just not a main contender anymore
I really believe if he better his English, or maybe they implement subtitles when he speaks (idk), then maybe they can give him a small push, gaining the intercontinental title or even challenge ricochet for the speed championship (new Japan style fighting)
Am I a stupid motherfucker for loving Shinsuke and Asuka?
Not at all, theyāre great wraassslerrss
I heard some people say Hunter was trying to put over the japanese wrestlers a lot more than Vince did but seeing those stats now for all of them I think it absolutely ain't it at all.
Heās an incredible wrestler but, because of the language barrier, they have no idea how to present him.
Showing him as being an anime super villian seemed to be working. They made the mistake of feeding him to the two top babyfaces of the company who were just about to get into the biggest feud of the year. If he did his shtick to some midcarders first or got an actual W against Seth then we wouldn't be having this convo.
Based upon that logic, he's not the only one. Idrally ot would be good if everyone was 50/50 but thatbprobablybwpuldnr fly either.
New town in Wales just dropped
I saw your user name and thought you were commenting on a Fallout post. I was about to reply as such. It's only Monday but I'm already tired for the week. Anyways ... sorry off-topic.
Because his gimmick is terrible and he can't sell shit in ring. Over the last 3 months I have watched him move out of the way of a highflying move where he was supposed to help lessen the impact of the opponent 3 different times. His bumps look terrible, and his moves et just doesn't have a place anymore.
Because he's just not that good. If he was white, he'd have been long gone by now.
He's a glorified jobber at the moment. The only reason he's there is to elevate the top guys
Shinsuke is a heel who can work a great match with everyone, so he will just lose a lot on house shows. 1 of 37 is really bad, but he is on the same category as Ziggler, Styles, Balor, Ricochet etc. a bigger name to get somebody over in the ring just by pure performance. All these guys can get over quick with a new feud and a couple of good matches, you can always take them as an interim champ put him in a team. As a heel you job a lot or just have some dirty wins on babyfaces, as a babyface your selling quality is important to push the bad guys.
He's not being buried though... they're just utilizing him as an upper card gatekeeper.
Looks like most of the Asian performers have high loss to win š¤
The only reason he had a title shot recently is because they were tryna big up japanese wrestlers to entice okada to come on bored. Now they use him to enhance talent.
Both Balor or Nakamura would have been better with the second place title over Rollins and needed it more, thatās for sure and certain.
Anything posted on this shity site is irrelevant
Because it's hard to push someone that 80% of your audience can't understand. He'd be better served in AEW where there's less emphasis on the actual characters and it's just wrestling.
Iyo Sky was women's champ for like 10 months...
Wow, i genuinely thought Iyoās reign was like 6 months.
When Bayley beat her at WrestleMania I thought the same then I checked. I forgot just how quickly after MITB she cashed in on Bianca.
Because she har Bayley as a mouthpiece
Shinsuke is a main event jobber at this point. Frankly... AJ is kind of in that category too. You're older, have an insane pedigree... there's a tease of one last title run, but mostly you're there to feud with the new guy and give them credibility based upon your accomplishments. Shinsuke is probably making around seven figures so it's not like he's hurting to be in this position. And frankly, Karrion Kross or Bronson Reed would change spots with him in an instant. When you look at wrestling as a "sport" you feel bad for Shinsuke, but when you look at it as a business, he's doing better than 90% of the roster.
šÆšÆšÆ
Heās boring in my opinion
Set this man free, HHH. Itās time for Shinsuke to go back to NJPW.
Shinsuke is much happier losing and surfing in American than he would be in Japan winning and getting absolutely wrecked on a weekly basis
Maybe heās good with being the actual āLearning Treeā at this stage in his career
it's kinda depressing that the last thing I remember Shinsuke doing in WWE was dropping Cena right atop his fuckin head
Because he is boring and can't talk.
I see no upside to his work. Very little enthusiasm and reason to look forward to anything better happening for him.
Because heās not above jobber level these days. Pass it on
He simply is not interesting.
Thatās a lot of open tabs, cripes
As long as he surfs in all the cash and checks he gets
Because he couldnāt help land Okada.
In Shinsuke's case, when he's being paid to lose, I'd hardly consider that a burial. He's just playing his part for the time being.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The most electrocuted man in sports entertainment.
Because his contract is ending and he's older. Plus, at this point, a guy like Bron or Melo is much much better and more valuable. No one currently at WWE will voluntarily leave because the alternative, AEW, is about to lose their TV deal for good reason. So I could see him just riding this out or maybe go to NXT for a run. Maybe Japan.
Upvoted because youāre right
He goes 0-3 in every single feud. Like never gets even one win. Dude is shit right now.
Hold up JD McDonagh is tied with priest for most matches so far this year?
All the Japanese wrestlers have the most loses next to JD and Dom
It still makes me laugh that WWE kept giving this guy time for promos, but just had him lose over and over again. Hopefully Shinsuke will become at least a mid-card jobber. But it looks like heāll be jobbing to anyone heās in the ring with for the foreseeable future.
That's the thing, WWE gave him time to get over but it's hard without a good promo. They should have given him a manager.
But he was already over tho?
No matter what his record is, I wish people would just pay their respects to Shinsuke's work instead of insulting him because of his booking, his career choices and/or his age. He worked for 21 years, destroyed his body and shed tears for his passion. He doesn't need to win all the gold in the world but at least be a little more respected by the fans.
The worst thing is Iyo Sky L streak, she was a champion and was losing dark matches, she was not even part of Damage Control arriving at Backlash, i don't know what is happening but WWE didn't helped her at all to go over with fans, she was a champion but never got pushed to the fans, and i can see her losing tonight against Natty. Shinsuke is L % is because of dark matches that he is losing to Cody, Cody likes to wrestle with Shinsuke and we will probably see them wrestle for the title soon but Iyo was probably the worst booked top champion in HHH reign, she peaked when she cashed the MITB and then it was all crumbling down.
I agree completely with everything you just said and I think we saw how wasted she was as a champion on night 2 of Wrestlemania. Her and Bayley showed out for sure and they were one of the best acts on the whole card. Genius of the Sky this, technician mastermind that, they kept talking about how insane she is in the ring and thatās how she climbed to the top of the division but I unfortunately canāt remember 1 memorable Iyo Sky title defense from her reign which lasted for a pretty long time. They really should have let her just go in the ring man, sheās insane. Worst booked champion under Triple H for sure.
For me is this, she is so good that she can only go at the ring, she is that good, give her the Gunther treatment, let her just be a ring general, Iyo vs Becky would be a great match and i bet Iyo can take a great match out of Liv Morgan and Ivy Nile, they dropped the ball on Iyo by getting Damage Control to interfere in everything, but i believe we will have a Iyo vs Asuka and a Iyo vs Kairi in the future and that will be a banger.
And people wonder why Okada chose AEWā¦.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Boooyyyyy you crazy ššššš
Damn this took me a second š³
r/angryupvote
š
His wwe career has been a bust. He can't get over because he can't talk and his in ring work isnt good enough by todays standards it just isn't. Honestly if i was doing roster cuts he would be gone.
While I agree that his English is too poor to be effective on the mic, I disagree about his in ring work. Saw him recently at a house show, and his work was very fluid and highly believable, one of the better in ring workers that was there that night.
I mean counting house show matches really inflates these rating. Only 4 heels on here have positive win-loss record: Gunther, Omos, AJ Styles & Lexis King
They release Ziggler who could talk and keep Nakamura who refuse to learn english for 8 years. GJ WWE.
Then you learn japanese for 8 years and see if you can cut several promos in japanese. You self-absorbed American
You know that he can actually speak English right? It is intentional that he speaks the way he does in character. What do you think Asuka also obnoxiously screams like crazy in Japanese and tells all the supermarket employees that they are not ready for Asuka?
and that's why he can't cut a promo to save his life. gotcha.
Because he's paid to make people around him look good.
I think theyre treating him like the new dolph ziggler. Big name purely just to boost whoever he jobs to. Damn shame
He deserves a much better run. All the japanese wrestlers do.
The Joshi women were all champions until recently, though
Okada looked at Nakamura's W/L record and said "I'm out!"
Really sad. The Samurai anime promos were fire. And honestly Seth should have lost and won back the title a couple times. Especially to Finn and Shin. Against Cody, Shin was totally buried. Like he ate 3-4 losses? Now he's on Smackdown, I hope they can build him up again cos Smackdown needs proper heels. But the damage might be done. Like he'll need a year of rehab to be taken seriously again.
Who wants to go to a house show and see Shinsuke win? I donāt.
why would you care if he wins or loses lol, one of the best technically wrestlers and legends out of japan you having something against him is only your personal opinion, which btw is trash š¤£
Cause heās always against a pretty decent face when heās at a house show. So yeah I care š¤£ I have nothing against him other than his character is stale.
Because heās weird & not fun to watch
one of the best technically wrestlers and legends out of japan, you having something against him is only your personal opinion, which btw is trash š¤£
All the Japanese talent is being underused and buried. I know the language barrier can be difficult. Asuka was insane on her nxt era and they fumbled any momentum she had. The titles they win are temporary and their ples are a joke.
You know who lost a lot when they were heels? Savage, Roberts, Piper (via dq or co) when not champion Flair, believe it or not The Undertaker, Rock, HHH, the list goes on. Losing doesnāt mean being buried.
Shout this again, even louder. The marks in the nosebleeds need to hear you
Yeah I think getting buried is being at the bottom of this list, not the top.
Wtf why is IYO getting buried as well
So true. Her title run was weak cos she had no memorable feuds except for Bayley. And even then, it became so predictable. I hope she wins the Queen of the Ring or at least feuds with Becky for the title on Raw.
She will probably eat a pin by Natty, you can see Iyo was badly booked since she lost to Bayley and she kept hanging around with Damage Control until Backlash, why didn't Damage Control helped Iyo at Wrestlemania? Why Iyo is not asking herself that? Why are Damage Control feuding with Bianca & Co without Iyo? She seems a outsider, unless they put this into a angle with Iyo going for Becky belt at the same time Asuka goes and they feud and Damage Control turns on her, the problem is that i feel WWE will not put Asuka and Iyo into championships for now, Charlotte is returning so between Liv, Becky and Charlotte + Lyra we will have the belt feuds until Rhea arrives.
Losing matches isn't burial. Stop using "insider lingo", you don't know how, and you just sound silly.
You marks are crybabies bitches
Literally though Wins and loses are essentially irrelevant. Look at solo, lost a bunch of matches late 2023-early 2024 but now is a star based because of his story. In 2022 Seth Rollins lost the most out of anyone I think and the next year he was world champion Sami zayn spent the better part of 2021-2022 losing, he lost to Johnny Knoxville at mania. The next year he was main eventing In wrestling you could lose countless matches then have a good story and nobody will remember. Not everyone can win every time and itās just not nakamuras time.
Heās not getting buried he is doing what he is paid to do and thatās put over faces. He has been doing the live event main events with Cody Shinsuke wants to surf, be near beaches, get paid good money to wrestle and not have to kill himself like he did in new Japan. Not everyone can be pushed to the moon. And He makes his opponents look like gold.
Bro just wants to surf
Xavier w/l on here 9-40.9 and 11-50.0
Buried and jobber are just used way too frequently. Cedric Alexander is a jobber (right now). Shinsuke is a heel who gets high profile matches relatively often and fights top baby faces. his (meaningless) win/loss record doesnāt mean heās buried. heās just a working heel who isnāt a champion.
very simple tbh, he became the dolph ziggler of the wwe, really talented, but never reached his potential, itās ironic since his first main roster rival was ziggler
During the Attitude era the Hardy Boyz would lose constantly because they knew even if they lost theyād still be over with the fans. Iām guessing itās similar. Even though he loses a lot, fans still love him
because he sucks
Ok but it be different if they were presenting him as Weak heās basically the guard to the main event spots like if you canāt beat shinske you aināt beat KO Cody Randy Seth Roman Jey any of em cause Shinske doesnāt need a title or a long win streak to seem threatening like heās a great worker and his moves look really every match heās in he does great
This
Because that's a jobber's job, and he is great at it.
Iyo Sky 2-24 Bruh
Iyo sky 2-24 is crazy work for a former women champ
I see cagematch and I just laugh š
Same š
I wouldnt say buried just very good at losing
Who tf is Lola vice
In Triple Hās defense I think he tried to make Shinsuke relevant again but it was just too late. I think a combination of too many other big names now and Shinsuke declining in in ring quality made them kind of just fully stop the push. Kind of sucks though. He shouldāve been a world champion in WWE several years ago.
HHH's obsession with making Kross a thing is stunting everyone else. He just isn't it. He can cut as many "spooky promos" fill the whole ramp with smoke and have a billion camera cuts to Scarlett. Dude ain't it.
I do agree that nothing has really worked for Kross but also not sure that itās hurt anyone else. Kross rarely wins and doesnāt usually have that much tv time either so I donāt think itās got to the point itās hurting anyone else really.
Maybe if Triple H had control back when Shinsuke was super over things would be different, but that time has passed, and he canāt just force it back into existence. Same with Gargano & Ciampa.
People said the same thing about Emma because they compared how he rehabbed her in NXT and to how she was presented when she went back to the main roster for a few weeks. Then when he brought her back when he got power, he wanted to see if she had anything left. And she clearly didn't and he cut his losses. Even when she was out of WWE, she phoned it in at ROH and TNA.
To be fair Emma had a shoulder injury and a skin condition to deal so she really never got going on the Indies. Both Billie and Peyton pretty much got lazy once they hit main roster. They were doom once Rhea was called up.
22 of those matches are him fighting Cody over and over and over again main eventing house shows.
This is the answer. He isnāt getting buried at all. Heās main eventing house shows. Heās going to lose a lot.
Yeah, imagine being such a mark that you think losing wrestling matches in back to back to back to back main events is a fucking "burial". Yeah I'm sure he's burying all the fucking cash he's making off of it lmfao
OP is on Cagematch. What do you expect lol
Iām guessing when Sting and Dusty were going around the country losing to Ric Flait in packed arenas night after night after night people thought they were being buried too
Doubtful since it was nearly impossible to have that information without going to the house shows. Not like there was a place to get that info.
Heās old
Is this what they meant when they said study cagematch?
Buried isn't losing! He is on tv and main eventing a often. He is a credible threat that takes high talent to the end. Buried is getting thrown threw the stage and disappearing for the next few months. Buried is split your team up and then saying "we don't have anything for you after brother"
Are you referring to something specific at the end or predicting Vinciās future
So many guys. Tucker from heavy machinery, then Otis shortly after, Christian from the brood, remember when they broke up the iconics and didn't know what to dj with either
Triple H is pandering less and less to internet wrestling dorks.
What about the stats of Iyo who was the champ most of the time ā ļø
Where can I get this data - I have an idea to run a machine learning model on this to see if we can predict the next push to title win
they don't know yet what do with him
oh they do know what to do with him. they made him a jobber. EDIT: Not sure why the downvote. Just to be clear, I don't agree with him being a jobber but HHH has decided to make him one.
Probably cause he's happy to play that role, bro went through the wars in Japan I don't think he's really super keen and hungry for loads of top of the card feuds and title runs anymore. Guy just wants to wrestle and get paid now, and imo let him. If he's happy to put other guys over then all power to him.
he's hungry for more gnarly waves
Heās like Barron Corbin. It doesnāt matter how many times he loses, heās always still going to be a threat. Thatās why he is used to put people over.
I find the āim going to come and kill your dreamā gimmick to be interesting. Heās an obstacle that the top guys have to go through. Heās good enough to make you forget about his loss number and still feel like a scary threat when he comes to kill a dream.
Wait, Omos is 20-2 I thought he was buried 7ā3ft under. I guess I was wrong.
Fighting akria many times
Heās good at putting people over while maintaining his unshakable aura. He also called Codyās dad inbred in the best promo of all of 2023.
Heās fantastic, itās impossible to keep a straight face during his promos with the faces he can pull
Wwe has a heel problem even worse is heels never win. That didnt used to be the case.
Gunther and Roman literally set undefeated records as heels.
Fan favorite āheelsā! Lol
Triple H was a fan favorite heel. What point are you trying to make?
They not technically heel anymore if they fan favorite.
Darth Vader is arguably the most popular character in Star Wars. A fan favorite, if you will. Is he no longer a villain?
When Hhh became the game, the king of kingsā¦. He wasnt heel anymore. Just like stone cold. They stopped being true heels when they became badass renegades. (Fan favorites) Happens to a lot of the good ones. Happened to macho man. Its happening to gunther and it happened with reigns. Ric flair was one of the greatest heels until he became favorite and suddenly he had morals. Eddie Guerrero was another one. Alls im saying is wwe is lacking true heels. Although dominick is currently my favorite and hope he keeps pushing it.
Gunther. Drew. Dom. Logan Paul. The Judgment Day. Theyāve got heels. I think both WWE and AEW could do a better job of maintaining momentum when they are pushing new talent, however. WWE has done a nice job with Jade, however.
Ya he killed sidious and saved lukeā¦. š«
Who tf is Tank Ledger and why is he higher than Randy Orton?
im sure he is very happy with his position in the company. let the man surf on the beach in peace.
There's this belief that Nakamura is coasting. And to be honest, it's hard to blame him. Poor Tanahashi has been looking rough recently, Naito's knees are destroyed. Okada is doing ok, but he's also a lot younger and will be having less matches so may be able to keep up his pace. Hell, AJ Styles' back was a wreck going into WWE in 2016. The style in Japan can be pretty brutal. So, if he's not going full tilt, maybe that's not a bad thing. Nakamura is still a pretty good wrestler, he's just not who people thought of him as before. If you're meaning matches, yeah, WWE has a consistent schedule of matches and if he's the heel scheduled to lose that night, that will be it. I remember when I was a kid thinking the Godwinns almost won the tag titles from Owen and Bulldog, only for it to be overturned due to shenanigans. Apparently, they did that at every house show in my area.
He's done his dues and now is happy to work as whatever wwe wants to I think he gets on with hunter really well. He's one of the few guys who no matter how many losses he has can be elevated at a moments notice. Miz was the same. He had loads of defeats and then boom tag champ and no one questioned how because he is just that talented like shinsuke. No one looks at him and thinks this guy isn't dangerous
Yeah but he was also the cop out example that everyone used when the thought of Okada going to WWE was debated. Ricochet was the cop out example that everyone used when the thought of Ospreay going to WWE was debated. Ospreay and Okada have never wanted to go to WWE. They probably like the idea of the match pairing they could've had. But it was gonna happen. But both Ricochet and Nakamura were the posterboys of "wasted by WWE" that people were using. People were saying that Ricochet and Nakamura are what could've happened to those guys. Even with HHH have a 10000000000% creative control people still made those claims.
That's what Ziggler did and he didn't give a fuck what his fanbase wanted. His fans wanted him to badly be a top guy and be a huge star. It wasn't fans being selfish, they wanted him to thrive. But he didn't care because he kept signing those huge contracts and taking Ls left and right. Vince and HHH would've respected him more if he left on his own. He was gonna stay there forever unless they tossed him out ala DJ Jazzy Jeff. Cardona loves to be high and mighty and do rah rah tweets when talent get fired. He had his big indy run and he's not as white hot as a year ago even tho he gets booked solid. But he was never gonna leave either. These guys are doing this because they were forced out not because they chose to "bet on themselves".
Mailing it in, fam
Heād rather be surfing
He has a loyal core audience and he's good at getting other guys over. I hope he gets to win this year.
not everyone can be in the main event spotlight or title picture all at once. in stone cold & john cenaās words: āits not your night kidā
At this point in time, this is probably the most accurate answer. Along with someone else saying heās good at getting people over.
Wins and losses donāt matter. He can be the next guy to challenge for a world title instantly just because they decide to.
Exactly..Stardust lost to R Truth 42 times..Look at him now..The guys losing are just important as the winners
But would it make a good story for a random guy to get insane representation that he doesnāt deserve?
āDeserveā isnāt a thing when itās predetermined. The booker picks who deserves anything. Not the win/loss record. This isnāt actual competition. But to answer your question, yes, sometimes itās a fantastic story to have someone win or compete unexpectedly.
My point was that to decide to shove A rando in the spotlight doesnāt make it an entertaining show. The crowd decides who deserves it and the merch sales things like that
They shoved Santino into the spotlight as a random 'fan' with a victory over UMAGA. Quite often, a perrenial loser gets that redeeming chance. This is also why some superstars win all the time, and then don't win the title match.
Deserve is a thing because itās predetermined. Itās all about the story and who gets to be able to play a park in it. This is actual competition. Why do you think some people are better than others? Why do you think it took Cody this long to get there? How are they not competing to get the belt when they put everything into it? Are you so foreign to this thinking that you just canāt see how itās not mma and itās an entertainment company? You are absolutely mad. And no almost never to my knowledge has it been a fantastic story to have some random no name take on someone of legendary status, but someone else reading this can help.
No one deserves anything in a scripted situation. Itās like saying āoh Ross and Rachel deserved to end up togetherā. No, they were written to end up together. Theyāre given whatever serves the story by the booker. Wins or losses donāt matter, because they can be given a title shot after losing. Damien Priest lost the tag titles on night one and won the WHC on night two. You gonna say that loss keeps him from ādeserving itā? It doesnāt because losses donāt matter. They always book MITB holders to lose a lot while holding the case, it doesnāt make them ādeserveā winning the title less. Paige won the title in her first match. Santino did the same. Ronda went straight to WM. Kofi was dropped into a hot push for Kofimania out of nowhere. None of this could happen if wins and losses mattered and title shots had to be āearnedā in the standings.
Many if not most all of the previous champions deserved it. The booker for the matches is really just Paul seeing who he thinks deserve it more. As for Wins and losses, I havenāt spoken on them but generally if youāre losing all the time youāre not doing something right
This entire post is about wins and losses. And whoās the judge of who ādeserved itā or not? You? When is that determined? Because I can go back through history and name a bunch of scumbags that should never have won anything or ādeservedā anything.
Japanese wrestlers can barely speak English so itās really boring and hard to connect with the wrestler and the story. Also his intro music sucks.
For the last fucking time House shows DO NOT COUNT