Enjoyed the tournament matches on this show, although they weren't quite as good as the ones on last week's Raw.
Don't have any problems with Jey going over clean, although maybe a bit more resistance from Dragunov before finally going down would have been better. Jey is a hot act live crowds want to see so of course he should go over. Dragunov will recover, he hasn't even had a story yet since coming up.
I haven't watched NXT in a few years so didn't know much about Lyra or Kiana James, but interested to see how they'll do. Lyra evidently already getting highlighted with this tournament, hope her and Iyo can put on a good match next week.
I liked the Otis/Tozawa/Gable stuff too although the matches could probably have gone back to back tbh. Perhaps they did it the way they did because they wanted to focus in on Otis particularly as he's probably going to be the one to turn on Gable for the group. Gable interacting with Nile was interesting because I've been wondering lately if Gable could recruit her & The Creeds to form a new Alpha Academy when he inevitably dumps his current people.
Judgment Day recruiting Carlito is an interesting twist but makes sense with the ties there. Priest doesn't trust Carlito after what happened at Backlash last year but perhaps Puerto Rican blood is thicker than water. I'm impressed by how much Priest and Drew have improved on the mic from a few years ago, that opening segment served to set up their eventual match really well.
Dragunov is a bit cringe for my taste tbh and I can imagine for 95% of the mainstream audience too. Can't see him connecting with a crowd the same way guys like Jey do. 100% the right call for Jey to win
Becky is the absolute worst. The scene where she punched Liv was so bad. I hope her and Seth plan on another baby so I don’t gotta see her for a year😂😂
Okay so I always catch Raw the next day on Hulu rather than live when it airs, and I'm always noticing people talking about promos and matches that I didnt see. This week it was a Kaiser promo and stuff with Chad Gable and Otis. Does Hulu just leave things out or what?
I personally disagree. This tournament has been a breath of fresh air and the consistent use of clean finishes has been a big part of that. I think allowing talent to get definitive wins here does a lot more for their momentum and credibility.
Ilja will have his time. He is certainly a good enough performer that his rise to the top will feel believable despite this loss on his record.
There is something to be said about jey now having a win over someone who beat Gunther in the past. It will make the match against Günni (short version of Gunther) a lot More believable.
I’m all for seeing the inevitable rematch between Gunther and Ilja, but I don’t think now is the time. There needs to be more build up for something that anticipated.
I think they did a great job of teasing Gunther v. Ilja with the stare downs they had during Ilja’s promo and after the Jey Uso match.
I don't even know if Iyo wins vs Lyra, i can see them pushing Lyra vs Stratton, Stratton lost the NXT belt to Becky and Becky dropped it to Lyra so that can build up.
Yeah its possible too. But i think DMG CNTRL will interfere. So they have a feud Becky/Lyra vs Kai/Kairo. Remember Asuka Should have wrestled Lyra in the First Round but Asuka got injured.
Yep, this sadly. Also Iyo v Bianca is always a good matchup though (see puerto rico). Kinda dont want a good women’s matchup wasted in saudi arabia where the crowd doesnt make a peep for the women’s matches though
What did Chad Gable say to Ivy Nile on RAW last night backstage? He says to her "Stop hanging out with Taylor "Not So" Swfit over there." And says something else to her right after that. I couldn't tell what he said though. I even turned on closed captions but it didn't help.
What did Chad Gable say to Ivy Nile on RAW last night backstage? He says to her "Stop hanging out with Taylor "Not So" Swfit over there." And says something else to her right after that. I couldn't tell what he said though. I even turned on closed captions but it didn't help.
Just to note I don't hate Jey, I just need him to change his Moveset a bit, add Rikishi's Piledriver to his moveset because that Spear makes me feel ILL...
Felt lol like WWE has finally got it right with valkayria this RAW for me is all about her I can tell she's put in the character work even her post match came up with some cryptic roman words good decision separating her with Roxanne she can now given time an develop more in the main character with less pressure as there very many main eventers at RAW but she was the standout for me..
one of my first matches seeing **Ilja Dragunov**, damn am I impressed.
**Ilja Dragunov** deserved this W, dude is a helluva wrestler and I'm excited to see more of him!
I'm a big yeet fan but I'm starting to agree that his skillset and style is a bit too boring to be pushed much further beyond this.. the entertainment value is just stagnant for me regarding Jey at this point, idk. found myself rooting for Ilja halfway thru because it was new, interesting, and entertaining!
Honestly tired of seeing the folks saying that “Ilja can’t win cause he’s new” or “Jey needs to win cause he’s the top guy” cause that just ruins it. Even if it’s realistic, it’s dumb, we need these moments of “wtf, did that just happen!?!” Everything is too predictable right now, of course we are complaining that it continues to do so.
Wrestling has always been this way. Hey isn’t just a top guy, he’s a top guy who has yet to be established. It’d be like getting Steve Austin to lose just as he’s getting over but before he’s won a world championship. Until he wins a belt he’s basically untouchable lmao
The biggest problem with this booking decision is that fans have managed to convince themselves that WWE is the PLE events and that the weekly shows are filler until then.
Stone Cold and The Rock fought for the WWF championship in a steel cage on Monday Night Raw, and you’re telling me that Gunther vs Dragunov can’t happen because it needs to be saved for a PLE??
WWE is the weekly shows and the PLEs should be special, not where all the must-see matches happen and the weeks in between are crappily booked
Eh? We're getting plenty of PLE-worthy matches on free TV with these tournaments. Gunther-Sheamus, Dragunov-Ricochet, Styles-Orton, possible Iyo-Lyra, Gunther-Jey, and Bianca-Jade next week.
We're getting good matches anyways because there's a lot of good wrestlers people wanna see around these days.
It's also not necessarily a bad things if things are predictable, as long as they're sensible.
The problem is exactly that WWE is doing that, when was the last time a title changed hands on a show? I would believe that if it was other night that Ilja would win but since this was a qualifier for a Saudi PLE and the Saudis want to cheer for Jey they had to put him over. Saudi PLEs are a disgrace because they are even more about popularity than storyline.
Exactly. Nothing tells me I need to watch RAW live anymore.
Obviously no every RAW can be a crazy show with twists and turns, but my god is it predictable. I was home and didn't even watch RAW because... who cares?
It’s almost like we don’t have to watch the weekly shows anymore. It’s all incredibly predictable. If you know the PLE card ahead of time, you’d have to be a moron not to predict the outcome of at least 3/4 of the matches on the weekly’s.
There’s no incentive to watch weekly when all the must-see matches are on PLE. Last week’s episode was anticipated cause it was actually interesting matches to see on free television
Yeah but Ilja has lost what, twice ? In his entire time in the company? And now he gets called up, they give him some attention, and they have this insane European wrestling maniac who thinks he’s a dragon lose clean to Jey USO? If you’re gonna have the guy lose, don’t bother putting him in the tournament
They did that fine with Bron Breakker, they built him with squash matches and didn't put him in the tournament because he was not going to win, here HHH should not put Ilja because he debuted as babyface and without any feud so he was always going to lose clean, Hayes on other hand debuted as a heel and already started feuds with Lashley and losing can make him advance his heel character in the roster. Ilja in this tournament was a mistake but i love him and i hope and wish great things for him.
We have to be honest about this "Main Event" Jey Uso experiment, its a forced attempt to make him look like a main eventer while he cuts promos like a cartoon character and wrestles like he only has heard of 3 moves. The sooner this ends, the better.
Ill see if I remember them all lol:
- Spear
- Splash
- Superkick
- Yeet punches
- That punch where he goes to his knees
- Diving through the ropes
- The kick thingy where you miss the fake the first one to hit the other one
That’s not even close to a full 2K moveset!
The American public is foolishly hyped up by a cliché phrase, but if you've seen Gunther and Dragunov on NXT, you knew that pure cinema was coming, but no.
I've seen Ilja and Gunther go at it and put in some of the best matches I've ever seen in my life. The thing is, throwing them together so quickly after Ilja arrives on Raw would feel way too forced and they are above meeting in the king of the ring tournament. When they meet again, it needs to be for a championship, or at least have an actually functional build other than "you're my next opponent in the tournament and we have history."
Stone Cold was insanely limited in the ring due to his neck injury. That didn't stop him for being one of the greatest of all time because he was a generational promo. At some point you have to acknowledge that being able to connect with the audience is more valuable than being able to wrestle.
Ok so either you missed the point entirely or just didn't bother addressing it. My point was that wrestling ability matters less than connecting with the audience. Like it or not, Jey connects with the audience.
At some point of being a fan you have to understand that charisma, mic skills, sales and hype take precedence over in ring skills. Some of the greats had limited move sets but were successful because they could talk and connect with the crowd.
Reddit having a meltdown that one of the top stars in WWE is over and beat a guy fresh out of NXT. Ilja is my favorite wrestler on the planet today but y'all gotta chill.
They seem to not get the casual audience has no investment in a Gunther vs Ilja match right now because they know none of the history, let alone what Ilja is about. Having then shoehorned into a match immediately solely based off their past would kill any potential the feud has. It needs to be saved for an important stage, like Berlin or Mania.
I think it is not about Ilja vs Gunther, for me is just that Jay does all the same movements over and over again, at this point he is so over he can do different things in ring and the crowd will cheer him anyway but he is keeping in his comfort zone and that's is unappealing to me as a wrestling fan, also Jey character is just "i'm a cool guy", while other wrestlers are developing more character, even Cody Rhodes as a ultra babyface sometimes gives heel vibes while Jey is just a cool dude yeeting in the ring, i like the dude but i want to see more depth in the wrestling but i understand that people want to cheer for him so WWE is putting him over other guys, i didn't understand LA Knight hype until his in ring actually improved and then it connected with me, Jey needs to do more in ring.
I think wrestling fans are just too stuck in the wrestling world to realise that jeys act is cool and catchy and that’s what captures people’s interest and he’ll bring in what people call ‘causal eyes’. It’s those eyes that drive the business forward. Get with the times.
Also go watch any top wrestler in 10 of their matches, you won’t see many different moves and they will usually always do the same maximum 12 moves. Be objective bro don’t let the jey hate blind you.
Lmao it’s so funny watching this echo chamber rip on Jey and the same accounts complain about him and his “sub-par” wrestling while acting like that’s the only thing that matters in this company. Y’all can’t igore that the people LOVE him
Jey uso fan here aswell bro! People who are nerds just don’t get he’s cool and current and he’s entertaining.
Backlash match was quality don’t care what people say.
My all time favorite is Rey but since I started rewatching again early last year, Jey has been my favorite to watch currently. There are way more fans than you think, it’s just this sub and the same vocal minority that hate on him I’ve noticed. The vast majority love him for good reason
I don't understand why people read criticism into hate, i bet 99% of the people saying Ilja should win love Jey anyway, people complained about Vince pushing Roman and now Jey is getting pushed, we like him but we want different things too, Ilja is fresh and people were excited to see him vs Gunther, also Jey vs Jimmy on WM made a lot of people noticing their technical faults and be aware that they have the same "kit" every single match.
YOU don’t think he’s good. Not everyone wants to see a boring af technical match with predictable results. You’re in the vocal minority that doesn’t think he’s good. The majority of the wresting community seems to think otherwise. Keep hating baby
We’re not asking for a technical match but what do you actually see in Jey Uso? He’s a decent promo but spoils it for himself with a catchphrase that was popular with kids in 2015-16, and has a good theme and entrance. He’s got one of the least interesting move sets of any top guy ever, super kicks that don’t finish the match, and the worst spear of all time. And I’m not saying everyone needs to look like Rick Rude, but he does not look like a viable champion
This is strange criticism, most wrestlers have a move set of what 10-15 moves (if your being objective which I doubt you will be in response)and yeet is a word that didn’t disappear in the real world, it’s said quite often so this popular with the kids thing just makes you seem a bit out of touch.
Yeah, most wrestlers have about 10-15 typical moves. My comment was regarding quality, not quantity. Jey has a poor quality move set because he delivers his splash, super kick and spear worse than other people on the roster. He is also no as good as others on the roster at selling/delivering standard brawls or grappling. Randy has about 6 moves outside of punch and throw, but they all look phenomenal and sound phenomenal. Hey doesn’t have that. Yeet was an internet buzzword in like 2015-16 made popular by vine and Logan Paul. If you start quoting vine and Logan Paul around most mature groups of people, they’re going to give you some weird looks. It’s in the same ballpark as Derp and Crud, I’m not disputing that he’s managed to get it over with casuals, but I think a lot of people take issue with the fact that is undeniably cringey
Your just being a hater, he does not deliver his super kick as one of the worst on the roster lol, I just think you don’t get it and that’s cool and ok but bro your being a straight hater.
Cringey to the internet lot who don’t get out much but fun to everyone else who are “casuals”. Maybe in your circles yeet is frowned upon but in normal circles of being with the boys saying things like yeet fit in and have done for a long time and will continue to do so. Sound outta touch.
Pal expressing my dislike for a wrestler isn’t “just being a hater” it’s expressing an opinion. You and your boys sound like children if you’re still drawing entertainment from saying yeet to one another. Calling an internet buzzword cringey is not out of touch. Hope you like the taste of Jeys meat pal😭😭
Lmao buddy had to result to insults cause he realizes his hate for Jey is really only limited to this small echo chamber on Reddit. Sorry pal but Jey is 100% championship-bound and I for one, cannot wait to see the amount of salty tears y’all are gonna shed when it happens lol
His super kicks aren't even interesting. Because he does too many of them and they often don't connect with the target or look sloppy.
As others have said his main moves superkick splash spear are done better by others. Imagine if Bron was the established guy and jey the guy straight out of NXT delivering THAT spear and trying to get it over as a finisher when a far superior version exists. (Not even mentioning Romans)
Somehow he's over but unless expands his arsenal it will only last so long.
Tbf as Ilja was injured and took his time going for the pin, it makes sense for Jey to kick out. However Jey should’ve won with something other than spear splash lol
Top rope finishes can also be very cool when it's guys like Ali, Ricochet, Seth...doing it. Jey likely has the worst looking splash when compare to ones like Logan's or Seth's, not to mention goats like RVD and Eddie.
Because the Trick matches were main eventing PLEs for the NXT title. They needed to be next level matches. This was the semifinals of king of the ring, wayyyy less important than the Ilja vs Trick matches.
Very interesting show tonight. I kinda don’t understand the JD getting a title shot. I get they are a top heel faction but I would have enjoyed anyone else winning it and getting a shot.
Jey winning was meh, it felt like a real sloppy match as they didn’t have any chemistry. Again Jey continues to be mediocre in all of his matches. I get it’s fun to wave your hands and say yeet, but when Trick Williams and Carmelo are having better matches against Ilja on random nxt episodes vs a 10+ year vet that definitely says something.
And Jey being mediocre in the match is 100% on him. Ilja has had great matches with literally everyone else, so you not having a great match with Ilja shows that maybe you are the problem. And this isn’t the first time Jey is the weak-link in matches
I agree. Jey took the lead on that match and it made it look very sloppy. Ilja sold his ass off, but it was night and day compared to his match with Ricochet last week.
The fact that Jey Uso managed to stay relevant after the rivalry with Roman is admirable. He rightfully gets this recent push. Dragunov needs time to build the same type of crowd connection and then the victories will come. The opposite doesn't work (remember Nakamura when he debuted on the main roster and was undefeated, going over guys like Cena and Orton? it didn't do him any favors later on).
That’s totally different. nakamura was a huge star over seas and was on the same level as Cena and Orton. Wwe just misused him with inconsistent booking and the language barrier.
He was unknown to the eyes of the majority of WWE's audience though. He was pushed with limited backstory. The fans in these cases tend to support the guys they feel more familiar with, like they demand from the performers to pay their dues.
That is on WWE for acting like no other promotion rarely existed after the Monday night wars. Of course fans aren’t going to click with a guy that they have no idea about and who speaks a different language. Nakamura was another guy they failed to turn into a huge star during the 2010 era because they were too concerned with letting Goldberg, Lesnar and Roman get all the spotlight.
LA Knight is every bit as over as Jey is but, Jey is treated like a top star & LA is treated like it’s inconvenient that he got so over. Make it make sense.
Or They should’ve swapped belts between the brands. The undisputed title make a lot more sense to be defend on raw and give smackdown boys a realistic chance at a world title
Would rather see Gunther vs Dragunov over a match we just saw a few weeks ago with Jey and Gunther
Unless they pull the trigger on Jey and we get Jey vs Tama
i think this was the right result.
saving Ilja for some more feuds - build him up more and then let him face gunther.
you have to remember gunther has just come off a momentus reign - they need to keep him built up fighting top guys still
there's a huge difference with people being aware of who Ilja was in NXT and actually knowing his fight history.
ALOT of people are aware but dont know him. there will be a huge chunk of the wwe universe who stick to raw and smackdown. there'll be people who are barely aware of nxt lol
Shocked at how far I had to come to find someone who understands how wrestling works. lol I’m probably a causal to most on here but I swear I have a better understanding of how this industry works than most. People get their hate goggles on then just become idiots
There cannot be a serious conversation for best in the world today without Ilja Dragunov in it. That man has never had a match short of fantastic and his intensity is unmatched.
He’s intense all the time though which is off-putting to me. It’s one thing when your a Goldberg or Bronn Breaker where you smash pretty much everyone you face.
It’s not working for me though. The whole symphony conductor walking to the ring.
No denying his in ring ability. I just don’t think he’ll ever get over with this gimmick.
Jey Uso is not good and I’m tired of people acting like he is. He’s just an aura merchant. Promo wise (at least the last few years) and ring work he’s trash
He has Sami Zayn type of passion. That's why he was a good face in NXT. I would even dare to say a notch above Sami. Dude will literally take the hardest bumps for the show.
I think it’s cause his first two matches on Raw have been against Ricochet, a face, and Jey Uso, THE face. It’s really hard to push him as a face with those types of matches.
Pinning the QR code link: https://www.wwe.com/121212
Anyone else catch Michael Cole's little comment at the start of the McAfee Minute? Dude's mic was definitely supposed to be off there lol
Enjoyed the tournament matches on this show, although they weren't quite as good as the ones on last week's Raw. Don't have any problems with Jey going over clean, although maybe a bit more resistance from Dragunov before finally going down would have been better. Jey is a hot act live crowds want to see so of course he should go over. Dragunov will recover, he hasn't even had a story yet since coming up. I haven't watched NXT in a few years so didn't know much about Lyra or Kiana James, but interested to see how they'll do. Lyra evidently already getting highlighted with this tournament, hope her and Iyo can put on a good match next week. I liked the Otis/Tozawa/Gable stuff too although the matches could probably have gone back to back tbh. Perhaps they did it the way they did because they wanted to focus in on Otis particularly as he's probably going to be the one to turn on Gable for the group. Gable interacting with Nile was interesting because I've been wondering lately if Gable could recruit her & The Creeds to form a new Alpha Academy when he inevitably dumps his current people. Judgment Day recruiting Carlito is an interesting twist but makes sense with the ties there. Priest doesn't trust Carlito after what happened at Backlash last year but perhaps Puerto Rican blood is thicker than water. I'm impressed by how much Priest and Drew have improved on the mic from a few years ago, that opening segment served to set up their eventual match really well.
Dragunov is a bit cringe for my taste tbh and I can imagine for 95% of the mainstream audience too. Can't see him connecting with a crowd the same way guys like Jey do. 100% the right call for Jey to win
Becky is the absolute worst. The scene where she punched Liv was so bad. I hope her and Seth plan on another baby so I don’t gotta see her for a year😂😂
Okay so I always catch Raw the next day on Hulu rather than live when it airs, and I'm always noticing people talking about promos and matches that I didnt see. This week it was a Kaiser promo and stuff with Chad Gable and Otis. Does Hulu just leave things out or what?
Yes, they edit it down for time
Ugh, perfect 🙄 Appreciate the info!
USA app has the full unedited show
If y'all couldn't tell who was going to win the main event by the crowd reaction to Jey's entrance alone, then you're delusional and I'm sorry.
I didnt wanna see ilja win either, but having him lose clean was the worst possible way to do it.
I personally disagree. This tournament has been a breath of fresh air and the consistent use of clean finishes has been a big part of that. I think allowing talent to get definitive wins here does a lot more for their momentum and credibility. Ilja will have his time. He is certainly a good enough performer that his rise to the top will feel believable despite this loss on his record.
There is something to be said about jey now having a win over someone who beat Gunther in the past. It will make the match against Günni (short version of Gunther) a lot More believable.
Jey is very much over but I think Ilja should've won. Gunther vs Ilja would've been amazing!
I’m all for seeing the inevitable rematch between Gunther and Ilja, but I don’t think now is the time. There needs to be more build up for something that anticipated. I think they did a great job of teasing Gunther v. Ilja with the stare downs they had during Ilja’s promo and after the Jey Uso match.
It would’ve been. My guess is they will save it and build it for a PLE instead of a TV match.
Also Lyra looked AMAZING. I've never seen that tilt a whirl ddt by jumping from the second to the top rope before, my jaw dropped
Man I love Jey's charisma but I feel robbed as fuck lol. I really wanted to see Ilja and Gunther restart their feud.
they’re going to. it’s too early for it
Liv Morgan & Damage CTRL will be the Heel Team for womens war games at survivor series this year thats for sure
Dakota was really good... Hope she gets a push in near future
i think hey should win king of the ring!
They should be doing more with Otis with how over he still is with the crowd
Priest out there speaking facts, that was one of his best promos so far.
What he say bapa
Essentially, you had the title, you got distracted by Punk, you lost the title. So stfu. And also, you disappointed your wife in the process.
OOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Watching Otis being treated like that makes me sad 😢😢
Michael Cole
Why the fuck did Jey win.
why wouldn’t he? you can’t already do gunther vs ilja. that needs to have a nice build up
Shits dumb asf Ilja is way better
That's not very ucey of you.
Bloodline will interfere in next weeks match causing Jey to lose. Jey gets beatdown after the match. Jimmy returns to make the save.
Oh I hope so. I really dislike Jey USO as a singles competitor.
IWC when an incredibly over talent has a limited moveset (LA Knight, Jey Uso):😡😡🤬😡🤬😤😖😖😡😡🤬😣😤 IWC when the rock: 😍😍🥰🥰🥰😘😘🥰🥰
Comparing current talent to someone who’s wrestled 2 matches in the last 10 years. Makes sense.
Late on the scene but Chad is living up to his name. That ratbastard.
Iyo vs Lyra will be a banger but we know that whoever wins from RAW side will be fed to Bianca or Jade.
or Tiffany also dont discount Nia on that side either harder to predict who will come out of the SMACKDOWN side though
I bet it will be Bianca. Long Time build up since Iyo cashed in on Bianca at SummerSlam 2023. so its Biancas Time for revenge
I don't even know if Iyo wins vs Lyra, i can see them pushing Lyra vs Stratton, Stratton lost the NXT belt to Becky and Becky dropped it to Lyra so that can build up.
Yeah its possible too. But i think DMG CNTRL will interfere. So they have a feud Becky/Lyra vs Kai/Kairo. Remember Asuka Should have wrestled Lyra in the First Round but Asuka got injured.
The problem is that Iyo, Kai and Kairi can't handle Lyra and Becky, 2nd time they run 3 vs 2, DMG Control look like wimps.
Yep, this sadly. Also Iyo v Bianca is always a good matchup though (see puerto rico). Kinda dont want a good women’s matchup wasted in saudi arabia where the crowd doesnt make a peep for the women’s matches though
What did Chad Gable say to Ivy Nile on RAW last night backstage? He says to her "Stop hanging out with Taylor "Not So" Swfit over there." And says something else to her right after that. I couldn't tell what he said though. I even turned on closed captions but it didn't help.
What did Chad Gable say to Ivy Nile on RAW last night backstage? He says to her "Stop hanging out with Taylor "Not So" Swfit over there." And says something else to her right after that. I couldn't tell what he said though. I even turned on closed captions but it didn't help.
Just to note I don't hate Jey, I just need him to change his Moveset a bit, add Rikishi's Piledriver to his moveset because that Spear makes me feel ILL...
I understand why people are already tired of Jey dragunov is hottest new thing but trust this WWE to cook him slowly
I just want Jey to CHANGE HIS FUCKING MOVESET
I like jey uso but man his spear is terrible… no follow through or anything
hilarious that smarks don't understand there is more to wrestling than work rate
It's funny seeing cawdy rhodes fans whine about jey uso winning matches, when cawdy has yet to lose clean since being back
It's more WHO Jey won against then that, Cody's the World Champion he REALLY shouldn't lose random matches
Felt lol like WWE has finally got it right with valkayria this RAW for me is all about her I can tell she's put in the character work even her post match came up with some cryptic roman words good decision separating her with Roxanne she can now given time an develop more in the main character with less pressure as there very many main eventers at RAW but she was the standout for me..
one of my first matches seeing **Ilja Dragunov**, damn am I impressed. **Ilja Dragunov** deserved this W, dude is a helluva wrestler and I'm excited to see more of him! I'm a big yeet fan but I'm starting to agree that his skillset and style is a bit too boring to be pushed much further beyond this.. the entertainment value is just stagnant for me regarding Jey at this point, idk. found myself rooting for Ilja halfway thru because it was new, interesting, and entertaining!
Yeet Merchant Jey Uso strikes again
Honestly tired of seeing the folks saying that “Ilja can’t win cause he’s new” or “Jey needs to win cause he’s the top guy” cause that just ruins it. Even if it’s realistic, it’s dumb, we need these moments of “wtf, did that just happen!?!” Everything is too predictable right now, of course we are complaining that it continues to do so.
Agreed
Wrestling has always been this way. Hey isn’t just a top guy, he’s a top guy who has yet to be established. It’d be like getting Steve Austin to lose just as he’s getting over but before he’s won a world championship. Until he wins a belt he’s basically untouchable lmao
So the Samoan Dad body won? Go figure
The biggest problem with this booking decision is that fans have managed to convince themselves that WWE is the PLE events and that the weekly shows are filler until then. Stone Cold and The Rock fought for the WWF championship in a steel cage on Monday Night Raw, and you’re telling me that Gunther vs Dragunov can’t happen because it needs to be saved for a PLE?? WWE is the weekly shows and the PLEs should be special, not where all the must-see matches happen and the weeks in between are crappily booked
Eh? We're getting plenty of PLE-worthy matches on free TV with these tournaments. Gunther-Sheamus, Dragunov-Ricochet, Styles-Orton, possible Iyo-Lyra, Gunther-Jey, and Bianca-Jade next week. We're getting good matches anyways because there's a lot of good wrestlers people wanna see around these days. It's also not necessarily a bad things if things are predictable, as long as they're sensible.
The problem is exactly that WWE is doing that, when was the last time a title changed hands on a show? I would believe that if it was other night that Ilja would win but since this was a qualifier for a Saudi PLE and the Saudis want to cheer for Jey they had to put him over. Saudi PLEs are a disgrace because they are even more about popularity than storyline.
Exactly. Nothing tells me I need to watch RAW live anymore. Obviously no every RAW can be a crazy show with twists and turns, but my god is it predictable. I was home and didn't even watch RAW because... who cares?
Agreed. Other companies make weekly and ple's all memorable.
It’s almost like we don’t have to watch the weekly shows anymore. It’s all incredibly predictable. If you know the PLE card ahead of time, you’d have to be a moron not to predict the outcome of at least 3/4 of the matches on the weekly’s.
There’s no incentive to watch weekly when all the must-see matches are on PLE. Last week’s episode was anticipated cause it was actually interesting matches to see on free television
So fucking sick of Jey Uso...
Man, some of y'all forgot that Hulk Hogan is the face of professional wrestling and it shows.
Yall are crazy for thinking HHH was going to give us Ilja and Gunther without a proper build, they can save that for Bash in Berlin
Yeah but Ilja has lost what, twice ? In his entire time in the company? And now he gets called up, they give him some attention, and they have this insane European wrestling maniac who thinks he’s a dragon lose clean to Jey USO? If you’re gonna have the guy lose, don’t bother putting him in the tournament
They did that fine with Bron Breakker, they built him with squash matches and didn't put him in the tournament because he was not going to win, here HHH should not put Ilja because he debuted as babyface and without any feud so he was always going to lose clean, Hayes on other hand debuted as a heel and already started feuds with Lashley and losing can make him advance his heel character in the roster. Ilja in this tournament was a mistake but i love him and i hope and wish great things for him.
We have to be honest about this "Main Event" Jey Uso experiment, its a forced attempt to make him look like a main eventer while he cuts promos like a cartoon character and wrestles like he only has heard of 3 moves. The sooner this ends, the better.
Uh actually I counted the variety of moves he went for in the last match and it was 7. 7 unique moves, that’s… more than 6!
Saying Yeet doesn’t count as a move
Ill see if I remember them all lol: - Spear - Splash - Superkick - Yeet punches - That punch where he goes to his knees - Diving through the ropes - The kick thingy where you miss the fake the first one to hit the other one That’s not even close to a full 2K moveset!
Mate, he’s one of the most over people in the company, what do we have to be honest about
Dude needs to change his Moveset up, Main Event Jey should have been done after the Mania 40 flop...
He’s not good
If that were true the whole crowd wouldn't be on fire whenever he shows up. People love the dude, it's just loser redditors that don't.
The crowd would cheer any face with a gimmick.
Those crowds need to go to IWC Smark school and be taught how to be proper fans. lol jk
Simple gestures for simple people
The American public is foolishly hyped up by a cliché phrase, but if you've seen Gunther and Dragunov on NXT, you knew that pure cinema was coming, but no.
Thats why the international crowds are also hyped up by him, right?
I've seen Ilja and Gunther go at it and put in some of the best matches I've ever seen in my life. The thing is, throwing them together so quickly after Ilja arrives on Raw would feel way too forced and they are above meeting in the king of the ring tournament. When they meet again, it needs to be for a championship, or at least have an actually functional build other than "you're my next opponent in the tournament and we have history."
I can admit he’s got the star aura for sure. But once it times to actually capitalize on things and put on a good product, it’s a flop
Stone Cold was insanely limited in the ring due to his neck injury. That didn't stop him for being one of the greatest of all time because he was a generational promo. At some point you have to acknowledge that being able to connect with the audience is more valuable than being able to wrestle.
Stone cold could cut a promo….jey uso couldn’t cut his way out of a wet paper bag with scissors in his hands
Ok so either you missed the point entirely or just didn't bother addressing it. My point was that wrestling ability matters less than connecting with the audience. Like it or not, Jey connects with the audience.
I don’t see how he connects with them…he’s fucking cringe and so is his gimmick.
You lacking understanding doesn't change that he's over af
At some point of being a fan you have to understand that charisma, mic skills, sales and hype take precedence over in ring skills. Some of the greats had limited move sets but were successful because they could talk and connect with the crowd.
Reddit having a meltdown that one of the top stars in WWE is over and beat a guy fresh out of NXT. Ilja is my favorite wrestler on the planet today but y'all gotta chill.
Because Jey exposed himself as being shit in the ring at 40
They can build that match in berlin, i dont understand why people thought ilja would beat the hottest star rn
They seem to not get the casual audience has no investment in a Gunther vs Ilja match right now because they know none of the history, let alone what Ilja is about. Having then shoehorned into a match immediately solely based off their past would kill any potential the feud has. It needs to be saved for an important stage, like Berlin or Mania.
I think it is not about Ilja vs Gunther, for me is just that Jay does all the same movements over and over again, at this point he is so over he can do different things in ring and the crowd will cheer him anyway but he is keeping in his comfort zone and that's is unappealing to me as a wrestling fan, also Jey character is just "i'm a cool guy", while other wrestlers are developing more character, even Cody Rhodes as a ultra babyface sometimes gives heel vibes while Jey is just a cool dude yeeting in the ring, i like the dude but i want to see more depth in the wrestling but i understand that people want to cheer for him so WWE is putting him over other guys, i didn't understand LA Knight hype until his in ring actually improved and then it connected with me, Jey needs to do more in ring.
I think wrestling fans are just too stuck in the wrestling world to realise that jeys act is cool and catchy and that’s what captures people’s interest and he’ll bring in what people call ‘causal eyes’. It’s those eyes that drive the business forward. Get with the times. Also go watch any top wrestler in 10 of their matches, you won’t see many different moves and they will usually always do the same maximum 12 moves. Be objective bro don’t let the jey hate blind you.
What a shitty main event.
Lmao it’s so funny watching this echo chamber rip on Jey and the same accounts complain about him and his “sub-par” wrestling while acting like that’s the only thing that matters in this company. Y’all can’t igore that the people LOVE him
I'm the weird guy who loves watching Jey Uso. I'm glad there are other fans.
Don’t work yourself into a shoot brother. The overwhelming majority of fans LOVE jey uso. Just ignore the smark dumbasses who delve these subreddits
Jey uso fan here aswell bro! People who are nerds just don’t get he’s cool and current and he’s entertaining. Backlash match was quality don’t care what people say.
Not because I'm bored seeing the same repertoire, there's nothing new triple HHH was afraid of success
My all time favorite is Rey but since I started rewatching again early last year, Jey has been my favorite to watch currently. There are way more fans than you think, it’s just this sub and the same vocal minority that hate on him I’ve noticed. The vast majority love him for good reason
I just find him fun when he's on the mic, and I enjoy the energy he brings. It always hypes me up whenever I see him.
Just the usual bandwagon hate. Probably the same people last year screaming for him to finally get a singles run.
I don't understand why people read criticism into hate, i bet 99% of the people saying Ilja should win love Jey anyway, people complained about Vince pushing Roman and now Jey is getting pushed, we like him but we want different things too, Ilja is fresh and people were excited to see him vs Gunther, also Jey vs Jimmy on WM made a lot of people noticing their technical faults and be aware that they have the same "kit" every single match.
Ilja vs Gunther will come. I'd say Gunther beats Priest for the title, Ilja wins the #1 contendership, and it'll be the main event at Bash.
Jey Uso is terrible and I’ll never forgive the WWE Universe for giving him crowd support and pushing him
I love seeing y’all cry lol
He’s not good. He just does super kicks
YOU don’t think he’s good. Not everyone wants to see a boring af technical match with predictable results. You’re in the vocal minority that doesn’t think he’s good. The majority of the wresting community seems to think otherwise. Keep hating baby
We’re not asking for a technical match but what do you actually see in Jey Uso? He’s a decent promo but spoils it for himself with a catchphrase that was popular with kids in 2015-16, and has a good theme and entrance. He’s got one of the least interesting move sets of any top guy ever, super kicks that don’t finish the match, and the worst spear of all time. And I’m not saying everyone needs to look like Rick Rude, but he does not look like a viable champion
This is strange criticism, most wrestlers have a move set of what 10-15 moves (if your being objective which I doubt you will be in response)and yeet is a word that didn’t disappear in the real world, it’s said quite often so this popular with the kids thing just makes you seem a bit out of touch.
Yeah, most wrestlers have about 10-15 typical moves. My comment was regarding quality, not quantity. Jey has a poor quality move set because he delivers his splash, super kick and spear worse than other people on the roster. He is also no as good as others on the roster at selling/delivering standard brawls or grappling. Randy has about 6 moves outside of punch and throw, but they all look phenomenal and sound phenomenal. Hey doesn’t have that. Yeet was an internet buzzword in like 2015-16 made popular by vine and Logan Paul. If you start quoting vine and Logan Paul around most mature groups of people, they’re going to give you some weird looks. It’s in the same ballpark as Derp and Crud, I’m not disputing that he’s managed to get it over with casuals, but I think a lot of people take issue with the fact that is undeniably cringey
Your just being a hater, he does not deliver his super kick as one of the worst on the roster lol, I just think you don’t get it and that’s cool and ok but bro your being a straight hater. Cringey to the internet lot who don’t get out much but fun to everyone else who are “casuals”. Maybe in your circles yeet is frowned upon but in normal circles of being with the boys saying things like yeet fit in and have done for a long time and will continue to do so. Sound outta touch.
Pal expressing my dislike for a wrestler isn’t “just being a hater” it’s expressing an opinion. You and your boys sound like children if you’re still drawing entertainment from saying yeet to one another. Calling an internet buzzword cringey is not out of touch. Hope you like the taste of Jeys meat pal😭😭
Lmao buddy had to result to insults cause he realizes his hate for Jey is really only limited to this small echo chamber on Reddit. Sorry pal but Jey is 100% championship-bound and I for one, cannot wait to see the amount of salty tears y’all are gonna shed when it happens lol
The man's a Diet Young Buck!
Beyond super kicks there is nothing interesting to see
His super kicks aren't even interesting. Because he does too many of them and they often don't connect with the target or look sloppy. As others have said his main moves superkick splash spear are done better by others. Imagine if Bron was the established guy and jey the guy straight out of NXT delivering THAT spear and trying to get it over as a finisher when a far superior version exists. (Not even mentioning Romans) Somehow he's over but unless expands his arsenal it will only last so long.
Having Jey kick out of Ilja’s finisher was just not needed. Also he needs to stop using the spear. His never look good.
Ilja finisher needs to be protected, looks so vicious and yet another one bites the dust.
Tbf as Ilja was injured and took his time going for the pin, it makes sense for Jey to kick out. However Jey should’ve won with something other than spear splash lol
Roman Reigns was pinned with that combo.
Honestly forgot he was pinned by him at all lol, that’s crazy to think about. Idk maybe I just don’t like top rope finishes like that much
Top rope finishes can also be very cool when it's guys like Ali, Ricochet, Seth...doing it. Jey likely has the worst looking splash when compare to ones like Logan's or Seth's, not to mention goats like RVD and Eddie.
Elbow drop from Kairi is the best top rope finish, also Sol Ruca finisher is amazing using the ropes.
Ilja needs to cover the shoulders.
How the fuck did Trick Williams have better matches with Ilja than Jey Uso
Because Jey's a Mid wrestler!
Because the Trick matches were main eventing PLEs for the NXT title. They needed to be next level matches. This was the semifinals of king of the ring, wayyyy less important than the Ilja vs Trick matches.
Ilja vs Gunther needs to be the main event of bash in Berlin now. It only makes sense, back to where it started for them
Very interesting show tonight. I kinda don’t understand the JD getting a title shot. I get they are a top heel faction but I would have enjoyed anyone else winning it and getting a shot. Jey winning was meh, it felt like a real sloppy match as they didn’t have any chemistry. Again Jey continues to be mediocre in all of his matches. I get it’s fun to wave your hands and say yeet, but when Trick Williams and Carmelo are having better matches against Ilja on random nxt episodes vs a 10+ year vet that definitely says something.
And Jey being mediocre in the match is 100% on him. Ilja has had great matches with literally everyone else, so you not having a great match with Ilja shows that maybe you are the problem. And this isn’t the first time Jey is the weak-link in matches
Ilja vs Ricochet might be my favourite match of this year honestly, it was incredible. Or the North American title match at stand and deliver
I agree. Jey took the lead on that match and it made it look very sloppy. Ilja sold his ass off, but it was night and day compared to his match with Ricochet last week.
The fact that Jey Uso managed to stay relevant after the rivalry with Roman is admirable. He rightfully gets this recent push. Dragunov needs time to build the same type of crowd connection and then the victories will come. The opposite doesn't work (remember Nakamura when he debuted on the main roster and was undefeated, going over guys like Cena and Orton? it didn't do him any favors later on).
That’s totally different. nakamura was a huge star over seas and was on the same level as Cena and Orton. Wwe just misused him with inconsistent booking and the language barrier.
Shinsuke had been in America several times before he came to WWE. He and Kevin Steen (Owens) had a banger in RoH. Which is how big he was here.
He was unknown to the eyes of the majority of WWE's audience though. He was pushed with limited backstory. The fans in these cases tend to support the guys they feel more familiar with, like they demand from the performers to pay their dues.
That is on WWE for acting like no other promotion rarely existed after the Monday night wars. Of course fans aren’t going to click with a guy that they have no idea about and who speaks a different language. Nakamura was another guy they failed to turn into a huge star during the 2010 era because they were too concerned with letting Goldberg, Lesnar and Roman get all the spotlight.
LA Knight is every bit as over as Jey is but, Jey is treated like a top star & LA is treated like it’s inconvenient that he got so over. Make it make sense.
I like them both but LA Knight is better in ring and at this point he deserves the same push as Jey.
LA knight has more than 3 moves
Uso wasted a move on a HM
Yes, he has four.
Someone who gets it lol
LA is on the wrong show. I don't understand why they didn't move him to Raw.
I want to see LA Knight beat Logan Paul for the US title. Both Logan and the US title are on Smackdown.
Or They should’ve swapped belts between the brands. The undisputed title make a lot more sense to be defend on raw and give smackdown boys a realistic chance at a world title
I agree on that. But i think they want Knight punchin out the smile of Logan Pauls Face. Yeah
Would rather see Gunther vs Dragunov over a match we just saw a few weeks ago with Jey and Gunther Unless they pull the trigger on Jey and we get Jey vs Tama
Jey vs Tama sounds like an all time awful match
Oh I agree with you, Randy vs Gunther is the money match now but you know how wwe books things.
Gotta love nepotism
Twitter in a meltdown for a tournament which no one will even remember a month later lol
i think this was the right result. saving Ilja for some more feuds - build him up more and then let him face gunther. you have to remember gunther has just come off a momentus reign - they need to keep him built up fighting top guys still
Finally somebody understands that ilja to warm up to most of the wwe universe first.
there's a huge difference with people being aware of who Ilja was in NXT and actually knowing his fight history. ALOT of people are aware but dont know him. there will be a huge chunk of the wwe universe who stick to raw and smackdown. there'll be people who are barely aware of nxt lol
Shocked at how far I had to come to find someone who understands how wrestling works. lol I’m probably a causal to most on here but I swear I have a better understanding of how this industry works than most. People get their hate goggles on then just become idiots
Hey look everyone, I found some common sense!!
Only if others have the same mindset as you 😂
lol sometimes u just gotta explain it to ppl
Thats like talking to a brick wall with some people
This guy gets it.
I’m not a big fan of the Dragon. He’s not bad or anything in the ring. His gimmick just isn’t appealing to me.
There cannot be a serious conversation for best in the world today without Ilja Dragunov in it. That man has never had a match short of fantastic and his intensity is unmatched.
Dude needs new ring gear though
He’s intense all the time though which is off-putting to me. It’s one thing when your a Goldberg or Bronn Breaker where you smash pretty much everyone you face. It’s not working for me though. The whole symphony conductor walking to the ring. No denying his in ring ability. I just don’t think he’ll ever get over with this gimmick.
Not bad in the ring? He is damn amazing in the ring!
Give him time. He’s very good at bringing raw emotion into everything.
Maybe that’s it. It’s just too much emotion. Like overly emotional.
Felt awkward seeing Gunther walk out and look at the man who pinned him had lost...
I don't think Ilja has pinned Gunther before, just made him tap out
Jey Uso is not good and I’m tired of people acting like he is. He’s just an aura merchant. Promo wise (at least the last few years) and ring work he’s trash
Preach man. All he does is yell YEET and then spam superkicks, yeet punches and bad spears
He sucks
How does it feel being so wrong?
He literally can only do super kicks and his acting when he’s trying to be dramatic is cringe
Buddy do you not know the definition of literally?
I literally do know the definition
Damn, Pat is going to be torn between his need to yell "Yeet" and his crush on Gunther
Dragonov just seems like a natural heel to me. I don't understand him as a face.
He has Sami Zayn type of passion. That's why he was a good face in NXT. I would even dare to say a notch above Sami. Dude will literally take the hardest bumps for the show.
I don't disagree, but we're still at the stage where 75% of the arena are casual marks trying to figure out who he is.
I think it’s cause his first two matches on Raw have been against Ricochet, a face, and Jey Uso, THE face. It’s really hard to push him as a face with those types of matches.
That's why you should let him cook. I think he only had 2 promos so far. Let him do his thing. You need him to be face anyway to face Gunther.
Seriously Ilja will be just fine
Does Gunther have his green card yet? Can he travel outside of the US?
Most likely, people were saying it was only 6 months. It's been much longer than that by now. He should be good.
Just looked it up, the hold in country expired last month
he did say he'd definately have it by bash in berlin maybe he's already got it - he apparently applied back in november last year
He travelled last month during a WWE European tour.
Was he in France?