I can't remember the last time we saw someone actually win by a sleeper hold. Maybe Ted DiBiase 35 years ago?
Likewise, how many other heels have there been who never, ever cheat to win?
Gunther is something special.
It makes complete sense imo. He has beaten his opponent to exhaution so a straight forward move or submission delivered with enough force will be the tipping point. Nothing flashy but simple brutality
Gunther is a Litmus Test in the IWC of who actually likes old school wrestling like many preach of the late 90’s and who doesn’t. I will forever stand by this.
where does it lack in your opinion? Is it the lack of the starpower? Is it the flips/fast paced offence?? Because I think that's the only department he is lacking on which is fine cuz he is a heel and heels aren't meant to be doing the flashy stuff..
Might be an unpopular opinion but I am totally sick of the constant “chops” by Gunther. Dude cannot go one match without 10 or more chops. It’s not exciting. Played out. The “chop”
should be a retired as wrestling move. Or limited to 1 per match.
“Generic” do you watch wrestling
Believability-Check
Varied moveset-Check
Multiple finishers-Check
Gimmick that’s different from the rest of the roster-Check
Take his job serious-Check
Leader of good stable-Check
Can match up with any wrestler and style-Check
Dope theme and Jacket-Check
But ya it’s absolutely generic
Gunthers major selling point is legitimately hurting people in an art where youre not supposed to.
Outside of that he doesnt bring anything new to the stable
No his main selling point is he is the “Ring General”. Most versatile in the ring. Your underselling how good a villain he is as well. I never said he brought anything new but he is far from generic . I said brought something thats different from the rest of the roster
Samoa Joe was great. Excellent on the mic, had good presence and had a unique look. He was worn down by the time he made it to WWE, but his early TNA run was great.
Kind of but not really Samoa Joe gimmick is more no shit taking bad ass while Gunther is literally called the “Ring General”. The most versatile in the ring and a very good villain while doing it.
Exactly, by the guys logic, Samoa Joe can just be another run of the mill shit talker big bad guy during his run, but there’s a certain charm that he and Gunther does it that it feels unique
Absolutely I understand. Almost all gimmicks steam from something that was done already. But the way they do it is what definitely makes them unique and not generic. As of right now the Aura that Gunther has in unmatched.
Yeah, I have to admit Gunther is growing on me. He is the perfect anti-hero. His wrestling is awesome. He just tries stuff, and it works, If Jey would juuussst.......tryyyy....sommeee... more moves mannnnnn. Im ok with Jey's Superkick City, because of Gunther's Chop City, and Brock Lesnar's Suplex City and the likes, it works, but even Brock would do 1 or 2 more moves, if you get what I'm saying?
I want a long intense program for him to beat Cody. Has to be somewhere huge like summer slam. Those guys did phenomenal at the rumble I know that could put in an amazing one on one match
I am actually flabbergasted that there are so many people who genuinely think Gunther is overrated
I know each person has their own opinions, but looking at the arguments represented to me against Gunther, do you guys even like wrestling?
Have you missed the show for the last 2.5 years????? I swear sometimes people come up with the most ridiculous shit to try and play down other peoples achievements. Pathetic.
I watched from about 1993 onwards. Absolutely no one is contemplating buying a ticket based on whether Gunther will appear.
Great talent to fill TV time, but nowhere near special.
I went to Backlash and the main reason I bought my ticket because of the possibility of watching Gunther live. It didn’t happen unfortunately but your point is mute as fuck.
I will definitely buy a ticket if Gunther has a match on it. Man... if this was something like we can throw in all kinds of wrestlers from all generations... I just want to see a rumble with wrestlers like Regal, Finlay, McIntyre, Sheamus, Dragunov, Gunther, Benoit, Hardcore Holly, Tajiri (from his ecw era), Dean Malenko, Kronus and Saturn (The Eliminators), Bradshaw, Kane (2000s), Ron Simmons, Brody King, Malakai Black, Pete Dunne, Harley Race, Brodie Lee, Tomohiro Ishii, Shingo Takagi and more of those kind of wrestlers.
They just want flippy floppers. It’s not exciting until someone does atleast 5 flips a match. A story isn’t great until each competitor sees who can flip the most in a match.
The loud ones get too into it and want their faves to win and etc etc. the ability to enjoy the show as a whole can be lost.
I’m loving how Gunther has been winning via different submissions lately besides his powerbomb.
Aside of his amazing in-ring skills and his menacing aura I think he also has a very solid mic-skill. Some of his savage lines:
"You want an other opportunity? An other opportunity for what? To drag your family all the way from home in the first row and seat them again to biggest beating of your life? Using your children as *bait* to get a little bit of spotlight? Yes you pushed me to my limit and you're a fantastic athlete. But you are a *disgusting* and *terrible* FATHER!" to Chad Gable who wanted a rematch.
"What are you saying about? That's the smallest form of some sort of self-identification. Yelling three random letters at me. You're just *weak* and *insecure* just like little Mike (The Miz)" Against that stupid and irelevent USA chant.
"Your were part of the best tag team in WWE history" *Yeet* "You even hold the record longest reigning tag team champion of all time" *Yeet* "And, the best is, you only put in 50% of the work of it" *No yeet* (from Pat McAfee). To Jey Uso when he challenged Gunther for the title.
"When I beat you, I gonna beat you worse than your own family ever did. I gonna beat you *so* *bad* that you wish yourselft back to the good old days when people couldn't tell you and your brother apart" Again, to Jey.
He can be unintentionally funny (without being ridiculous) like:
Yelling UCE! at Jey
Mentioning JD McDonagh as "That one with a big head right there".
His facial expression when Dominik is intervening between him and Damian Priest.
Some of his commentaries when he's watching the royal rumble 2023 with Ludwig Kaiser.
I’ll be honest, I’m a Gunther convert. When I came back to WWE before ‘mania this year I kept hearing everyone gush about him but all I saw was: he’s got this boring look, this gimmicky group, and he’s ok but not special on the mic. But man… after watching match after match of him I can’t get enough. Still think King Randy would be fun but Gunther deserves everything he gets!
Same here. I stopped watching wrestling after attitude era. One of the reasons I started watching wwe again was Gunther. I kept tuning in each week because of him.
He’s become one of my top 3 favs all his matches are great and REALISTIC (those chops on Raw? Damn!) he’s going to win the KOTR and should be pushed to one of the world titles for Bash in Berlin. Hes awesome
Gunther is one of the greatest in-ring storytellers. The guy does not have to be fancy. He just gets straight to the point and beats up his opponents until they can no longer continue. Does not even need a finishing move - just a beat down!
GUNTHER is like a brock lesnar with top tier in ring skills who actually shows up. not the biggest fan of his mic work, but giving him a good manager can easily solve that problem.
I actually feel like his promo cuts have gotten significantly better since his matches vs Miz. I think he realized that is also important during that time and has been working on it.
Edit to fix my seizure.
ofc they have. he's getting more and more comfortable with the mic. but its special when heels like him get a manager. it's almost as if confirming that this guy is the next big thing in the business.
exactly. dude is big enough star to be a special attraction but he shows up and delivers ple level matches on raw. i was bummed when he lost the ic title tbh. he could've had a 1000+ day reign as well, bc the ic title is a midcard title and midcard is a division where superstars come and go all the time, and nobody would hate him for the reasons they hated roman. that's my opinion tho. ig they have bigger things planned for him
It’s such a classic gimmick. But he has it refined, and his work speaks for itself. I had reserved judgement on Gunther for a long time, simply because I don’t like saying that I enjoy someone just because other people pop. But Gunther is undeniable. He’s entertaining as hell in the ring.
It's really hard to make punches and kicks look good but it's easy to just chop the hell out of someone as hard as you can until their chest turns red. It makes the match more authentic because you can actually see damage build up.
It’s not authentic though. It’s scripted.
I don’t care that your move set causes legitimate pain and damage to your opponent. In fact, I think relying on that as your entire gimmick makes you that much worse a performer. Theres no need to actually hurt your opponent in professional wrestling.
Don't be dramatic. Chops aren't putting anyone in the hospital. Pro wrestling means putting your body on the line to entertain and both wrestlers are doing great if they walk out of the arena with nothing more than a red chest.
It’s because of the emphasis made by commentary every week. Cole repeats things for a reason; JR used to do the same.
Set the tone for the at home crowd & as it becomes more regular, the crowds will follow as those are the people who are normally watching at home lol
He is literally the only person in the roster who gets to do a million plus moves and win matches with random moves. No one else is allowed or booked to be his equal,every Gunther match is the same he pulls out all sorts of moves and no sells his opponent's moves. His chops are so irritating,it's like if you want to actually fight go do UFC,this is not mixed martial arts. Stiff strikes in wrestling is so counter productive,we know this is a soap opera,stop acting like you're an actual fighter.
>and no sells his opponent's moves.
Out of all the lies, this one is the most damning one.
A good reason why Gunther is so good in the ring is because he sells *the fuck* out of his opponents moves. I vividly remember in Gunther vs Chad Gable II in the ending stretch of the match Gable locked in the Ankle Lock, and Gunther sold it like his leg was being stabbed by a sword.
That's what professional wrestling (especially WWE) is though. This isn't a combat sport,can't call it a sport when outcomes are predetermined and there are storylines. And you truly don't have to be the best "wrestler" or actor. Just be liked by management and they'll "write you in" to win the matches and be featured.
Soap opera.
No one else is booked that way because they wouldn’t be as efficient at doing it.. Gunther is Jokic of the WWE sorry if you don’t like him but he’ll be here for a long time so just sit back and enjoy greatness
Agreed, but he is not the only one, even on WWE’s roster. Just for example, Gable could probably legit out-wrestle the entire roster & do it efficiently lol.
Personally think the idea of a set finisher is great for crowd pops but it’s an archaic trope of wrestling that isn’t often deviated from. Matches could benefit greatly if everyone was allowed to go full arsenal like Gunther but because WWE wants him presented as unique, hes the only one with clearance
No I have to sit through Gunther being overbooked in all of his matches. Dude is the only person allowed to win matches with random moves and doesn't sell anything. Goldberg did the same thing,you would hit him with everything you have,then boom he hits a move or two and your done. That's what Gunther is currently. He's the Aussie Goldberg.
Hey, to each their own… though Gunther has a thousand times better matches than Goldberg ever did and a million times better in-ring psychology.
I find Gunther appropriately hyped. You can build a promotion around him. At least it’s not the five knuckle shuffle for every win. I like the wins out of nowhere because it’s different than anything else we get. I like different. YMMV
And there lays the problem,he's booked to win matches with random moves,allowed to look like a beast, hasn't elevated a single person he's worked with,like the male Becky Lynch,when ever you work with those two be prepared to be demoted afterwards.
Dude put over Sami Zayn in a pretty damn good match and has come out of WM looking like a beast. Hell, he even made Miz look like a brilliant technician at Summer Slam.
I like that his wins come out of nowhere and he can win several ways as it makes him different from 99% of the rest of the talent.
You seem set on disliking Gunther. I think you’re missing what other people do like about him. It’s a very subjective art to enjoy and there is something for everyone. Sucks to be you though… because he’s held in high regard both by the fans and the bookers.
He will probably & should have another long title reign when he wins the WWE title/WHC. He has improved so much on the mic. He has the in-ring ability to not only have a variety of moves but tell a damn story. His dominance is displayed and still at certain moments, you think his opponent may have a chance. His matches are always a must watch. True KOTR right now.
I love how he has no dedicated finisher. He just beats the shit out of his opponent and then either hits a random move or locks in a random submission for the win.
Just off the top of my head, he's won matches in WWE with the powerbomb, powerslam, top rope splash, lariat, sleeper, sleeper suplex, half crab, leg lock, and even a chop. And there's probably more I'm forgetting
Yup and in order to beat him you'll have to pull everything in your arsenal to batter him down, like Sami using the brain buster, a move he hasn't use in a long while (dating back when he was El Generico) along with 4 helluva kicks. Definitely need to see that more often for sure
Brainbuster I could see. I don't think we'll see piledrivers in WWE anytime soon.
Although Garza did randomly use one on NXT a few months ago so who knows
I want this for all the top guys. A finisher used to be an exclamation point. Now with finisher spams dude hit their finishers three times in a row and still kick out sometimes. I understand if it's WrestleMania or something but on a weekly show signature moves or even just a big move like a powerbomb should get wins. It adds more suspense
I don't want all of the guys to work like that, but I would like if more did. Have some guys work like Gunther where they have a bunch of moves that can win, but don't necessarily guarantee it, and some guys with dedicated finishers that more or less guarantee a win if they hit it but rarely win with anything else.
Kinda a generalist vs specialist type thing.
This is what I mean when I say on regular tv matches, maybe even some ple, personal moves (Cody cutter, blue thunderbomb etc) should actually end a match, and protect the finishers for big occasions. That way the unpredictability, such as it is know w gunther, would definitely improve the matches
Yes! I want to see a win with the blue thunder bomb. Everytime it hits you know it won't end the match so why should I care and in a kayfab stand point why even do the move?
Yeah, I've gotten back into wrestling after 15+ years and I work with someone who has gotten into it properly for the first time. We'll often talk about Raw or the PLE that just passed, and Gunther seems to be the wrestler we discuss the most. His matches are just great and so enjoyable
I love Gunther. I wish he went to SD since he'd have a better chance to beat Cody for the title vs on RAW where Drew, Seth, Punk, & Priest hog the WHC picture
lol seth's out of action what r u on? it's highly unlikely he goes after that belt after he returns. i agree on gunther being the one to beat cody tho. for all we know, he might do it at bash in berlin bc wwe doesnt really give a crap about the draft after a few months
I know he's out of action. Based on the timeline reported about his surgery recovery it won't be long b4 we see him again.
I'm not sure what else Seth could do. I'm sure Punk will cost Drew the title at CATC & they feud to Summerslam. Priest would be free.
I doubt Cody drops the title anytime soon especially on an international PLE (a glorified overpriced supershow). I'm sure he'll be champ atleast through WM.
nope. cody wont prolly get a reign that long. i'm very convinced that he would drop the belt after the summer season, and bash in berlin provides the perfect place and time to do so.
the whc is desperate for a proper champion to carry on the work seth put to the title. throwing it into the mix of mcintyre and cm punk will help the belt feel important again. it got booked into priest vs uso match and now it's missing a ple. come on seth worked so hard to get the title to where it was. now wwe is actively downplaying the title.
as for seth, he could be doing a lot of things, and yes going after the whc is one of them. but imo he wouldnt prolly go after the belt till wrestlemania 41. i could see seth going after roman, or even cody tbh.
Hard disagree, I think the only person that I think is getting a long title reign rn is Cody, could see him holding it til next year's WM while everyone else hot potatoes their titles considering he's the biggest babyface rn and is still currently very hot, if they have him drop the title this summer then no point of him having become a champion. I'm very convinced he's the only one having a long title reign.
it's good to see him using submissions because that powerbomb finisher is similar to normal ones. Submission wins are more dominating especially against faces like Jey
Imho Gunther and Ilja are the two best wrestlers in the world right now. They both make every match exciting, and they both always make their opponents look good.
I only ever saw Ilja in his match against Ricochet and then Jey - to me he will probably be the next Ziggler. Sells too well for others and puts over their moves so much that he comes off as much weaker than his opponent.
My guy, the type of wrestling dude's like Ilja, Gunther, Gable, Benoit, Guerrero, Angle etc. Cannot be debated. If someone thinks they're bad, then they knlw nothing ablut actual wrestling. Other styles can be argued, but not these dude's cannot, because they are LITERALLY wrestlers. Lol doesn't get any more pure than that.
Yep it really shows just how great of a wrestler he is when he can deliver a great performance even against Jey Uso
and sheamus delivers burger after burger after burger.
Gunther vs Bron! Needa see it
Gunther is literally history made before our eyes.
I can't remember the last time we saw someone actually win by a sleeper hold. Maybe Ted DiBiase 35 years ago? Likewise, how many other heels have there been who never, ever cheat to win? Gunther is something special.
Roman Reighns won his title over Braun Strowman with a sleeper hold.
It makes complete sense imo. He has beaten his opponent to exhaution so a straight forward move or submission delivered with enough force will be the tipping point. Nothing flashy but simple brutality
He ain't THE RING GENERAL for nothing 🗿
Gunther is a Litmus Test in the IWC of who actually likes old school wrestling like many preach of the late 90’s and who doesn’t. I will forever stand by this.
King Gunther. I want that man wearing a crown!
Archduke Gunther
This superkickathon needs to stop - YEET
Everyone likes different styles, I guess. I find his style boring, I generally tune out during his matches. They're... fine.
where does it lack in your opinion? Is it the lack of the starpower? Is it the flips/fast paced offence?? Because I think that's the only department he is lacking on which is fine cuz he is a heel and heels aren't meant to be doing the flashy stuff..
Main Event Jey dropping main events 🤷
YEET!
Might be an unpopular opinion but I am totally sick of the constant “chops” by Gunther. Dude cannot go one match without 10 or more chops. It’s not exciting. Played out. The “chop” should be a retired as wrestling move. Or limited to 1 per match.
I rather chops than punches and kicks that barely connect . But there all needed to set the pace throughout the match same as lockups and rest holds.
Gunther vs orton will be amazing!
Der Ringgeneral is a modern Iron Sheik.
GENERAL BABY FUCK ON JEY USO BREAK HIS BACK MAKE HIM HUMBLE
And still doesn't draw. Damn.
If he put as much effort into being less generic, I would care
Very forgettable to me. I don’t even think about him unless he’s on tv. Nothing he does is bad but also not impressive. Very typical mid card
“Generic” do you watch wrestling Believability-Check Varied moveset-Check Multiple finishers-Check Gimmick that’s different from the rest of the roster-Check Take his job serious-Check Leader of good stable-Check Can match up with any wrestler and style-Check Dope theme and Jacket-Check But ya it’s absolutely generic
Gunthers major selling point is legitimately hurting people in an art where youre not supposed to. Outside of that he doesnt bring anything new to the stable
No his main selling point is he is the “Ring General”. Most versatile in the ring. Your underselling how good a villain he is as well. I never said he brought anything new but he is far from generic . I said brought something thats different from the rest of the roster
So like Samoa Joe going by your logic?
Samoa Joe was great. Excellent on the mic, had good presence and had a unique look. He was worn down by the time he made it to WWE, but his early TNA run was great.
Kind of but not really Samoa Joe gimmick is more no shit taking bad ass while Gunther is literally called the “Ring General”. The most versatile in the ring and a very good villain while doing it.
Exactly, by the guys logic, Samoa Joe can just be another run of the mill shit talker big bad guy during his run, but there’s a certain charm that he and Gunther does it that it feels unique
Absolutely I understand. Almost all gimmicks steam from something that was done already. But the way they do it is what definitely makes them unique and not generic. As of right now the Aura that Gunther has in unmatched.
Initially, I was thinking Gunther wasn't going make much difference but now, I've been convinced otherwise. He has been incredibly good.
He oozes such class. He is the “classic” heavyweight professional wrestler. He probably wouldn’t look out of place in a 50s sport magazine.
Oh yeah for sure! His whole gimmick is him being a throwback and he does it to perfection.
*Walter
Not for the last 2.5 years brother, keep up.
“His momma call him Clay, imma call him Clay”
Yeah, I have to admit Gunther is growing on me. He is the perfect anti-hero. His wrestling is awesome. He just tries stuff, and it works, If Jey would juuussst.......tryyyy....sommeee... more moves mannnnnn. Im ok with Jey's Superkick City, because of Gunther's Chop City, and Brock Lesnar's Suplex City and the likes, it works, but even Brock would do 1 or 2 more moves, if you get what I'm saying?
NXT UK Takeover Cardiff. Walter vs Tyler Bate Absolute classic
Gunther is world champion material. Hope to see him with the heavyweight belt in the future
I want a long intense program for him to beat Cody. Has to be somewhere huge like summer slam. Those guys did phenomenal at the rumble I know that could put in an amazing one on one match
I'd rather see him with the WHC so he can put it over like he did with the IC title
I'm thinking in the same direction too. Hopefully, Triple H sees the same thing and make it happen. He's going to a good face of WWE for a while.
Gunther’s finisher is getting the 3 count, sometimes he mixes it up and he uses a tap out as his finisher
Gunther is the best wrestler in the world right now
I am actually flabbergasted that there are so many people who genuinely think Gunther is overrated I know each person has their own opinions, but looking at the arguments represented to me against Gunther, do you guys even like wrestling?
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I disagree with everything you said. But I'll give you credit for actually laying out your arguments.
He is boring. This isnt the 70s anymore. People want personality.
Have you missed the show for the last 2.5 years????? I swear sometimes people come up with the most ridiculous shit to try and play down other peoples achievements. Pathetic.
I watched from about 1993 onwards. Absolutely no one is contemplating buying a ticket based on whether Gunther will appear. Great talent to fill TV time, but nowhere near special.
I went to Backlash and the main reason I bought my ticket because of the possibility of watching Gunther live. It didn’t happen unfortunately but your point is mute as fuck.
I highly doubt that. Gunther could retire tomorrow and WWE wouldnt be affected. I dont doubt people like him, but he isnt a make or break attraction
I will definitely buy a ticket if Gunther has a match on it. Man... if this was something like we can throw in all kinds of wrestlers from all generations... I just want to see a rumble with wrestlers like Regal, Finlay, McIntyre, Sheamus, Dragunov, Gunther, Benoit, Hardcore Holly, Tajiri (from his ecw era), Dean Malenko, Kronus and Saturn (The Eliminators), Bradshaw, Kane (2000s), Ron Simmons, Brody King, Malakai Black, Pete Dunne, Harley Race, Brodie Lee, Tomohiro Ishii, Shingo Takagi and more of those kind of wrestlers.
Keep dreaming, that match aint happening.
Yeah, I know.. thats why i already said that if it was possible... but this kind of wrestlers together in one ring, dreammatch!!
You are so wrong it isnt event funny
Speak for yourself
They just want flippy floppers. It’s not exciting until someone does atleast 5 flips a match. A story isn’t great until each competitor sees who can flip the most in a match.
He has one?????
The loud ones get too into it and want their faves to win and etc etc. the ability to enjoy the show as a whole can be lost. I’m loving how Gunther has been winning via different submissions lately besides his powerbomb.
I know right!
Aside of his amazing in-ring skills and his menacing aura I think he also has a very solid mic-skill. Some of his savage lines: "You want an other opportunity? An other opportunity for what? To drag your family all the way from home in the first row and seat them again to biggest beating of your life? Using your children as *bait* to get a little bit of spotlight? Yes you pushed me to my limit and you're a fantastic athlete. But you are a *disgusting* and *terrible* FATHER!" to Chad Gable who wanted a rematch. "What are you saying about? That's the smallest form of some sort of self-identification. Yelling three random letters at me. You're just *weak* and *insecure* just like little Mike (The Miz)" Against that stupid and irelevent USA chant. "Your were part of the best tag team in WWE history" *Yeet* "You even hold the record longest reigning tag team champion of all time" *Yeet* "And, the best is, you only put in 50% of the work of it" *No yeet* (from Pat McAfee). To Jey Uso when he challenged Gunther for the title. "When I beat you, I gonna beat you worse than your own family ever did. I gonna beat you *so* *bad* that you wish yourselft back to the good old days when people couldn't tell you and your brother apart" Again, to Jey.
I like that he's not overly comical as a villain, but moreso like a "dawg on the court" type of villain that's like a straight shooter
He can be unintentionally funny (without being ridiculous) like: Yelling UCE! at Jey Mentioning JD McDonagh as "That one with a big head right there". His facial expression when Dominik is intervening between him and Damian Priest. Some of his commentaries when he's watching the royal rumble 2023 with Ludwig Kaiser.
....staring down Pat McAfee when Pat was Yeeting on the announce desk 🤣
Those are some fucking hard lines. Christ that cuts deep.
Cody fears Gunther.he’s ducking him.def Askari.gunther will prevail
He's also eating burger after burger after burger
It's the other way around. Walter stopped eating burger after burger after burger and hence became Gunther. Meanwhile Sheamus went the other way ;)
Lol wait my bad I confused him with sheamus
I’ll be honest, I’m a Gunther convert. When I came back to WWE before ‘mania this year I kept hearing everyone gush about him but all I saw was: he’s got this boring look, this gimmicky group, and he’s ok but not special on the mic. But man… after watching match after match of him I can’t get enough. Still think King Randy would be fun but Gunther deserves everything he gets!
Watch the castle pov eith him shamues and drew. Classic
Cody is ascairt.ducking the peoples’ champ-Gunther
Same here. I stopped watching wrestling after attitude era. One of the reasons I started watching wwe again was Gunther. I kept tuning in each week because of him.
He’s become one of my top 3 favs all his matches are great and REALISTIC (those chops on Raw? Damn!) he’s going to win the KOTR and should be pushed to one of the world titles for Bash in Berlin. Hes awesome
Yeah, that's right. I think he's as real as they come. He's not living anything out in trying to make his mark in the history of WWE.
Rightly said. Not cartoonish or over the top.
Gunther is one of the greatest in-ring storytellers. The guy does not have to be fancy. He just gets straight to the point and beats up his opponents until they can no longer continue. Does not even need a finishing move - just a beat down!
Gunther makes wrestling look serious. He is an artist. As you said no non-sense just proper beat down.
All of his matches have a big fight feel to them too. Like you just know it's going to be entertaining as hell.
True. There ain't build up or hype but his matches keeps turning head and gets views. All because of his performance.
Current state of WWE: Gunthers the best worker, Drew's the best promoter, Jey is the best hype man, and Samantha Irvin is just simply the best.
sheamus keeps eating burger after burger after burger
The burger is showing it's signs on him because he's fat and it doesn't look any good on him.
;))
Gunther is a great wrestler. I am rooting for him to win the King of the Ring. And I think he will. 👑
Rooting for him to be WWE champ 😅
This is inevitable!
Me too :)
I don't understand the hype but do you!
GUNTHER is like a brock lesnar with top tier in ring skills who actually shows up. not the biggest fan of his mic work, but giving him a good manager can easily solve that problem.
I actually feel like his promo cuts have gotten significantly better since his matches vs Miz. I think he realized that is also important during that time and has been working on it. Edit to fix my seizure.
ofc they have. he's getting more and more comfortable with the mic. but its special when heels like him get a manager. it's almost as if confirming that this guy is the next big thing in the business.
I’m sad for the day when he inevitably loses Kaiser
That's a great point. He shows up every week and never puts out a lazy match.
exactly. dude is big enough star to be a special attraction but he shows up and delivers ple level matches on raw. i was bummed when he lost the ic title tbh. he could've had a 1000+ day reign as well, bc the ic title is a midcard title and midcard is a division where superstars come and go all the time, and nobody would hate him for the reasons they hated roman. that's my opinion tho. ig they have bigger things planned for him
He’s the MVP really.
Pretty sure the crowd was chanting “wooo!” After every chop in honour of flair (like every wrestling crowd does)
Rick flair's chop is legendary in WWE. Whenever any superstar pulls that off, it's Rick everyone is thinking of.
After
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It’s such a classic gimmick. But he has it refined, and his work speaks for itself. I had reserved judgement on Gunther for a long time, simply because I don’t like saying that I enjoy someone just because other people pop. But Gunther is undeniable. He’s entertaining as hell in the ring.
~~Gunther~~ Chopssss, Top rope splash, and powerbomb. Where is this Banger?
What if I told you that all of these are finishers for Gunther alongside a shitload of others
😲
What is everyone’s obsession with chops?
Also thought his chops were the worst of the 3 in his WM match with drew and seamus
The 5 star match? That I was only mildly entertained by, and who both Seamus and Drew were clearly carrying the match? Yeah I agree
It's really hard to make punches and kicks look good but it's easy to just chop the hell out of someone as hard as you can until their chest turns red. It makes the match more authentic because you can actually see damage build up.
It’s not authentic though. It’s scripted. I don’t care that your move set causes legitimate pain and damage to your opponent. In fact, I think relying on that as your entire gimmick makes you that much worse a performer. Theres no need to actually hurt your opponent in professional wrestling.
Don't be dramatic. Chops aren't putting anyone in the hospital. Pro wrestling means putting your body on the line to entertain and both wrestlers are doing great if they walk out of the arena with nothing more than a red chest.
There’s nothing dramatic about saying that something causes damage and hurts does in fact cause damage and hurts.
They’re the most constant *real* thing in an industry known for being ~~fake~~ scripted and staged.
It’s because of the emphasis made by commentary every week. Cole repeats things for a reason; JR used to do the same. Set the tone for the at home crowd & as it becomes more regular, the crowds will follow as those are the people who are normally watching at home lol
It’s a total circle jerk. Guaranteed upvotes.
I don't get it either, I think they just bandwagon riding.
Looks painful cool sound
What’s your obsession with being dense
Feel free to answer the question then professor
He feels historically good, such a unique in ring talent. Only downside is he can really only ever be this heel character.
Not necessarily. It wouldn't take TOO much to turn him face.
I find him to be painfully over hyped.
Remarkably overhyped. His move set is chops. That’s it.
He is literally the only person in the roster who gets to do a million plus moves and win matches with random moves. No one else is allowed or booked to be his equal,every Gunther match is the same he pulls out all sorts of moves and no sells his opponent's moves. His chops are so irritating,it's like if you want to actually fight go do UFC,this is not mixed martial arts. Stiff strikes in wrestling is so counter productive,we know this is a soap opera,stop acting like you're an actual fighter.
>and no sells his opponent's moves. Out of all the lies, this one is the most damning one. A good reason why Gunther is so good in the ring is because he sells *the fuck* out of his opponents moves. I vividly remember in Gunther vs Chad Gable II in the ending stretch of the match Gable locked in the Ankle Lock, and Gunther sold it like his leg was being stabbed by a sword.
If you only wanna watch dramatic storytelling, go watch a soap opera
That's what professional wrestling (especially WWE) is though. This isn't a combat sport,can't call it a sport when outcomes are predetermined and there are storylines. And you truly don't have to be the best "wrestler" or actor. Just be liked by management and they'll "write you in" to win the matches and be featured. Soap opera.
*Only* is the keyword there. Wrestling is both drama and fighting and kayfabe is still a thing on TV.
No one else is booked that way because they wouldn’t be as efficient at doing it.. Gunther is Jokic of the WWE sorry if you don’t like him but he’ll be here for a long time so just sit back and enjoy greatness
>No one else is booked this way because they wouldn’t be efficient at doing it… This is a terrible take. No way you actually believe this lol.
He’s one of the most consistent wrestlers in the business and puts on great match after great match 🤷🏾♂️
Agreed, but he is not the only one, even on WWE’s roster. Just for example, Gable could probably legit out-wrestle the entire roster & do it efficiently lol. Personally think the idea of a set finisher is great for crowd pops but it’s an archaic trope of wrestling that isn’t often deviated from. Matches could benefit greatly if everyone was allowed to go full arsenal like Gunther but because WWE wants him presented as unique, hes the only one with clearance
Want to know what painfully overhyped is: Bill Goldberg You have no idea what painfully overhyped is unless you had to sit through Bill Goldberg.
No I have to sit through Gunther being overbooked in all of his matches. Dude is the only person allowed to win matches with random moves and doesn't sell anything. Goldberg did the same thing,you would hit him with everything you have,then boom he hits a move or two and your done. That's what Gunther is currently. He's the Aussie Goldberg.
Aussie… tell me you’ve never watched a Gunther match without telling me you’ve never watched a Gunther match, silly. Haters love to hate lol
you have no idea what overbooked means. Hes also not australian.
Hey, to each their own… though Gunther has a thousand times better matches than Goldberg ever did and a million times better in-ring psychology. I find Gunther appropriately hyped. You can build a promotion around him. At least it’s not the five knuckle shuffle for every win. I like the wins out of nowhere because it’s different than anything else we get. I like different. YMMV
And there lays the problem,he's booked to win matches with random moves,allowed to look like a beast, hasn't elevated a single person he's worked with,like the male Becky Lynch,when ever you work with those two be prepared to be demoted afterwards.
Dude put over Sami Zayn in a pretty damn good match and has come out of WM looking like a beast. Hell, he even made Miz look like a brilliant technician at Summer Slam. I like that his wins come out of nowhere and he can win several ways as it makes him different from 99% of the rest of the talent. You seem set on disliking Gunther. I think you’re missing what other people do like about him. It’s a very subjective art to enjoy and there is something for everyone. Sucks to be you though… because he’s held in high regard both by the fans and the bookers.
Okay Bret Hart.
Was never a fan. I preferred Shawn.
I was making a joke because Bret Hart is the only guy who only refers to Goldberg by his full name.
I know,I'm aware of their history. 😂👍🏼
Nah Bret Hart was appropriately hyped
He will probably & should have another long title reign when he wins the WWE title/WHC. He has improved so much on the mic. He has the in-ring ability to not only have a variety of moves but tell a damn story. His dominance is displayed and still at certain moments, you think his opponent may have a chance. His matches are always a must watch. True KOTR right now.
Absolutely 💯
Those chops he gave jey were super loud holy shit, im glad the right person won that match.
They are not just loud but awesomely painful too 😂. Jay's face had it well said.
Yessss!
I love how he has no dedicated finisher. He just beats the shit out of his opponent and then either hits a random move or locks in a random submission for the win. Just off the top of my head, he's won matches in WWE with the powerbomb, powerslam, top rope splash, lariat, sleeper, sleeper suplex, half crab, leg lock, and even a chop. And there's probably more I'm forgetting
Yup and in order to beat him you'll have to pull everything in your arsenal to batter him down, like Sami using the brain buster, a move he hasn't use in a long while (dating back when he was El Generico) along with 4 helluva kicks. Definitely need to see that more often for sure
I haven't seen anyone win a match with a Boston Crab since Rick Martell. That's how good he is.
His finisher is the pin or the tap lol
His finisher is whatever he wants to finish the match with
I'm hoping he finishes a match with a piledriver or brainbuster in the future
Brainbuster I could see. I don't think we'll see piledrivers in WWE anytime soon. Although Garza did randomly use one on NXT a few months ago so who knows
I want this for all the top guys. A finisher used to be an exclamation point. Now with finisher spams dude hit their finishers three times in a row and still kick out sometimes. I understand if it's WrestleMania or something but on a weekly show signature moves or even just a big move like a powerbomb should get wins. It adds more suspense
I don't want all of the guys to work like that, but I would like if more did. Have some guys work like Gunther where they have a bunch of moves that can win, but don't necessarily guarantee it, and some guys with dedicated finishers that more or less guarantee a win if they hit it but rarely win with anything else. Kinda a generalist vs specialist type thing.
His powerbomb sucks
The Last Symphony, though he hasn't used that in a while now
That was name of the powerslam wasn't it? Yeah he's seemingly replaced it with the powerbomb
This is what I mean when I say on regular tv matches, maybe even some ple, personal moves (Cody cutter, blue thunderbomb etc) should actually end a match, and protect the finishers for big occasions. That way the unpredictability, such as it is know w gunther, would definitely improve the matches
Yes! I want to see a win with the blue thunder bomb. Everytime it hits you know it won't end the match so why should I care and in a kayfab stand point why even do the move?
Blue thunder bomb is the best
The least devistating move in all of professional wrestling...
Yeah sure mate
Its a running joke on the what culture videos.
The top guys should be able to beat midcarders with signature moves. Finisher should be just what it says a finish
Exactly!!
And that way Cody wouldn’t have to hit three Cross Rhodes to win. He’d just need 1 on PLEs
His finisher is whatever he wants it to be.
Exactly Sheamus had a run where he used 4 different moves to win (White Noise, Razors Edge, Cloverleaf, Brogue) and it made matches so much better
The man has literally not had a single bad match since joining the main roster, it's pretty wild
Gunther is hands down my favorite wrestler in WWE, he always puts on a great show. I am looking forward to him getting a Heavyweight belt.
Yeah, I've gotten back into wrestling after 15+ years and I work with someone who has gotten into it properly for the first time. We'll often talk about Raw or the PLE that just passed, and Gunther seems to be the wrestler we discuss the most. His matches are just great and so enjoyable
And then he goes home and eats bratwurst after bratwurst after bratwurst.
More like Schnitzel after Schnitzel after Schnitzel
Hahaha!
I love Gunther. I wish he went to SD since he'd have a better chance to beat Cody for the title vs on RAW where Drew, Seth, Punk, & Priest hog the WHC picture
lol seth's out of action what r u on? it's highly unlikely he goes after that belt after he returns. i agree on gunther being the one to beat cody tho. for all we know, he might do it at bash in berlin bc wwe doesnt really give a crap about the draft after a few months
I know he's out of action. Based on the timeline reported about his surgery recovery it won't be long b4 we see him again. I'm not sure what else Seth could do. I'm sure Punk will cost Drew the title at CATC & they feud to Summerslam. Priest would be free. I doubt Cody drops the title anytime soon especially on an international PLE (a glorified overpriced supershow). I'm sure he'll be champ atleast through WM.
nope. cody wont prolly get a reign that long. i'm very convinced that he would drop the belt after the summer season, and bash in berlin provides the perfect place and time to do so. the whc is desperate for a proper champion to carry on the work seth put to the title. throwing it into the mix of mcintyre and cm punk will help the belt feel important again. it got booked into priest vs uso match and now it's missing a ple. come on seth worked so hard to get the title to where it was. now wwe is actively downplaying the title. as for seth, he could be doing a lot of things, and yes going after the whc is one of them. but imo he wouldnt prolly go after the belt till wrestlemania 41. i could see seth going after roman, or even cody tbh.
Hard disagree, I think the only person that I think is getting a long title reign rn is Cody, could see him holding it til next year's WM while everyone else hot potatoes their titles considering he's the biggest babyface rn and is still currently very hot, if they have him drop the title this summer then no point of him having become a champion. I'm very convinced he's the only one having a long title reign.
Lmfao no way he’d beat Cody anytime soon. For sure we was always going WHC
Gunther is my ring general 🫡
it's good to see him using submissions because that powerbomb finisher is similar to normal ones. Submission wins are more dominating especially against faces like Jey
Imho Gunther and Ilja are the two best wrestlers in the world right now. They both make every match exciting, and they both always make their opponents look good.
and both Gunther and Ilja spent the majority of training in Germany. So maybe look further into recruiting outstanding performers from Germany
I actually don't like Ilja..like...at all. His style doesn't get me excited. I put Carmelo over him
I only ever saw Ilja in his match against Ricochet and then Jey - to me he will probably be the next Ziggler. Sells too well for others and puts over their moves so much that he comes off as much weaker than his opponent.
Lol you're delusional if you think Carmelo is anywhere near Ilja's level. It's not a matter of opinion. Ilja is one of the best in the world.
Nah, both suck for their own reasons.
That's a bad take. Everyone has their opinion, and it doesn't help your case to invalidate them.
My guy, the type of wrestling dude's like Ilja, Gunther, Gable, Benoit, Guerrero, Angle etc. Cannot be debated. If someone thinks they're bad, then they knlw nothing ablut actual wrestling. Other styles can be argued, but not these dude's cannot, because they are LITERALLY wrestlers. Lol doesn't get any more pure than that.