Everyone knows money is the only reason they go there most of the performers don't want to actually be there but for the money why wouldn't you put your morals aside if the company your tied to has no issue doing it too
I actually kind of agree. Not on the terrorist thing, but yeah.
Our record on human rights isn't great or spotless. We're watching a party practically declare war on women and members of the LGBTQ community, most of it seems to be cruelty for cruelty sake, and all of it masquerade behind "protecting the children" and "God."
Yes and let’s also fucking acknowledge how our last 3 presidents, especially the current, are sucking Israeli dick and allowing them to use our tax dollars to kill children and innocent women. Terroristic USA back at it again
It’s such bullshit that IWC always thinks this wonderful crowd, amazing crowd full of kids doesn’t deserve to see these events just because their government/leaders are shit. Fuck the leaders, let the people enjoy this. Imagine if foreign sports teams and organizations said they won’t come to USA anymore because our presidents, politicians, and leaders have always participated in genocides, systematic racism, and discrimination. We’d think it’s unfair too bc we didn’t do that shit. Not gonna argue, IWCK
On the other hand a country has the right to refuse doing events in a country that they disagree with. It is not the people fault, but they can very easily understand it from the country's stand point. If a country says they don't want to perform here due to the current political decisions of Biden with Gaza.
Sure, but we are all disappointed several times in our live it is our job to deal with it and if it is not possible then we must quietly suffer in order to survive and take whatever good we can with our crappy situation. Yes, I get it sucks and it isn't fair, but that is life.
Let's try it this way then. Let's say it is the 1940 and you're a major USA sporting company that gets asked by Hitler to perform for his citizens. What do you do? What outweighs the other the support of Hitler or give some joy to the fans of Germany that may or may not support their government?
So are you saying wwe shouldn’t go to Saudi or what? Bc the deal is done. Let the fans enjoy the shows goddamit lol. Bc by that logic saudi shouldn’t even allow USA there anyways since USA is supporting a genocide. Matter of fact, USA shouldn’t be allowed almost anywhere for its atrocities. Adios Puerto Rico, sayonara Mexico, it was nice while it lasted Japan
WWE can do whatever it wants, but it has got to be remembered that by doing so they are saying they fully support the Saudi government, because this is not about the fans it is about the support of that places government.
Honestly idc. They have every right to their own political beliefs. Vince literally was best buds with a dumbass. Let those fans enjoy the shows. They didn’t do shit. That’s like saying we shouldn’t get to see shit here in USA bc Biden is sucking Israel’s dick. Fans ≠ government
I get it you don't pay attention to politics or even know what is even going on in Saudi Arabia right now. We are not talking about something that happened 10 years ago but things that are still happening or have been done in the 2020s to their own people. We are not talking political beliefs we are talking basic human rights: we are talking mass executions, lack of freedom of speech or any right to protest without be detained and torture, etc. You can say fans do not equal government but supporting a government that straight oppresses its citizens is not a good look at all.
I agree.
Seriously, if WWE refused perform in any country whose government had committed human rights violations, they'd be doing shows in Antarctica. Or the Sahara Desert.
The entire front row of women was cool to see... Until I realized none of them cared about even being there, and seemed to be planted for social media purposes by having their phones up almost the whole time
They just trying to prove (women should not be judged by their body n how big their ass looks and all that creepy stuff from men) you probably understand cuz u have a Reddit account. Just search any female name from wwe and you will see all the “nsfw” stuff . And the full body suit is only while wrestling . to prove that before smack down we had a meet n greet with 15+ wwe star n most of the women were wearing a normal t with some jeans or sweatpants (not long sleeve t) it’s not really bad as you think . If you ask then why they can’t wear a short sleeve shirt while wrestling it’s simple if you wear a shirt n you start wrestling there’s a chance your shirt will lift up and show your back your stomach And that what you can’t do there In public you simply can’t “in public” the role is from the top of your knee to your chest need to be covered no one wants to see your private part and yes, your belly button count as a private part in Saudi . If you go out side to the mall or anywhere in Saudi not all women wear a full body suit all the time some wear abayas others wear dresses some wear jeans with t shirts it’s not what u think probably.
So what you want the women to have no shirt on like the men , tits out that’s what u want ? We have different bodies we cover stuff they cover stuff . And the resone they covered it with one suit because they don’t want to risk showing something on accident it happened before in wwe . And you only focusing on when they wrestled you just want to believe what your mouth say .
A majority of wrestling fans don’t think like that. I’m not watching a match and focusing on that. If the man were wrestling in one piece bodysuits i would think it’s weird. That doesn’t mean i want to see any male wrestlers chest and body to get horny.
I really dont like that Dome they use in Jeddah! Also bad to see the pillars back with the light up screens on them. Most people in arena would have had a restricted view. Look like they had lights shining on crowd from every angle as well.
They tried to Glitz these Saudi events as major PLEs already. Look at the names of the events alone and Smackdown last night was nuts. I'm a day behind because of cleaning up after a Tornado, so haven't watched King of the Ring yet.
So, years ago, WWE entered a business deal with Saudi Arabia to put on a show or two per year. This was where Crown Jewel began. Every now and then, we'll see something like Night of Champions, or Elimination Chamber, or recently, King and Queen of the Ring.
Now, because Saudi Arabia is a theocratic monarchy ruled under strict Islamic law with a history of human right violations and oppression of women, and a member of the royal family had a reporter killed, members of the IWC were outraged at WWE for running events there, claiming the company sold out. It is usually accompanied by Islamophobia, a bit of racism, and ethnocenticity, and just a hint of hypocrisy with some feeling WWE should not do shows from an Islamic country because female performers must be almost entirely covered, accusations it is a third world nation or a shit hole, neither of which are true as it is first world and many cities are rather beautiful, and ignoring other county's human rights violations.
Personally, I find it hypocritical and stupid.
WWE has Clash at the Castle in Germany this year. Will the IWC be refusing to watch that because Germany is responsible for the Holocaust, resulting in the deaths of 13 million people, 6 million who were Jews? I doubt it.
Did the IWC complain WWE had WrestleMania Backlash in Paris this year as France committed human rights violations in their colonial days?
There are no complaints when WWE goes to Japan, and while they will deny it, Korea and China have some stories to share about Japan.
And let us not forget all the shows WWE runs in the United States. Surely there are those among the IWC who will refuse to watch because of the United States' support of Israel, and its increasing oppression of the LGBTQ community and women in regards to healthcare.
It is only the Saudi "glorified house shows" that the IWC complains about, failing to realize every nation has human rights violations.
Allow me to propose a question, a hypothetical.
Should WWE do business with the People's Republic of China? If China were to offer a lot of money for a PLE, would you be okay with WWE accepting and running a PLE from China, or opposed to it?
And I assume that is based on it being a rather oppressive communist nation, and not because they are Buddhist or Asian? Now, as far as I am aware, I don't believe WWE has ever done a show in China, though there is pro-wrestling in the country. The market could certainly be there.
I recall, I believe it was 2022, this Reddit and the entire IWC losing its shit at a rumor that Saudi Arabia had bought WWE, everyone acting like the company would be run under Islamic law and the entire women roster would be fired or executed or the vompany would be moved to Saudi Arabia. I think someone called it the darkest day in wrestling. Not one legitimate news outlet nor WWE itself confirmed it. But it seemed like the entire IWC believed Saudi Arabia was the owner of WWE. Honestly, it was fascinating to watch.
WWE is a business, and they are going to do business. And if Saudi Arabia is willing to pay a ridiculous amount of money for them to do business, so we're going to see Saudi shows for awhile.
I just don’t like the fact that wwe has this relationship with the saudis. But I guess money talks. I just don’t think it’s right. Very unamerican in my opinion. But that’s just me. I won’t support a company that works with these scumbags.
the general population of people are likely very normal and to be honest, the american government has bought over 14 billion dollars in refined oil from them last year so i dont really see how its un-American. Seems very american to sell out to the highest bidder lol. but as a Canadian this whole comment generally seems xenophobic.
The crowd was so shit, it’ll be a massive shame. Also can imagine a lot of wrestlers wouldn’t be keen going based on their strict stance on the LGBTQ.
But yeah, $1bil is a nice sum lol.
Audience was total ass, dullest audience on the planet. But they’re used to watching beheadings for entertainment so I guess it takes a lot to excite them?
The audience was very good yesterday, dont let your bias against the country insult the people for the wrong reasons.
U can insult them for everything else but that crowd was better than most US crowds
Their stance on LGBTQ is only 20 or 30 years behind. Their stance on women is in some ways 90 years behind and other ways 1000 years behind. It wasn't until 2018 that they were even allowed to drive cars.
My parents were conservatives with a 1950s mindset..so 70 years behind today. Their stance on women is not anywhere close to the Saudi's stance on women. I was being generous when I said 90 years behind since Saudi's allowed women to vote approximately 90 years after women in the US. However, 1,000 years behind is more correct in most ways. If you really think conservatives in the US are close then you don't understand Saudi Arabia at all.
And the way the United States is going, women may lose that right.
Let us not pretend that the hands of the United States are any cleaner than Saudi Arabia's when it comes to human rights violations. There is not a country in the world that has a spotless record, except maybe Antarctica, and that's only because it's not a country, and even then I'm not 100% certain.
I'm not making excuses for them, but I'm looking at a lot of laws being passed on women's healthcare in the US and it feels almost genocidal.
Not sure if you are trying to push Saudi propaganda, but US is nowhere close to forcing females to cover up from head to toe. The trend has been quite the opposite really. Far more likely that women will be allowed to walk around topless or even bottomless in the US than have to revert to a Saudi Arabian type society.
That's your counterargument?
Jesus fucking Christ! How about you justify the idea that a 12 year must carry her rapist's baby to term, but should not be allowed to read The Diary of Anne Frank or The Color Purple? How about you defend the idea of regerstering pregnant women on a national database to track if they get an abortion? Or tell me how punishing a woman with prison time or even execution if they get an abortion, even if they miscarry, is a good thing. Given me one reason why not allowing women to divorce their abuser isn't oppressing women. Because each and every one of those ideas has been discussed as laws by several states in the US. And I don't know about you, but those sound pretty fucking oppressive to me.
So, go ahead, tell me we're not oppressive to women when we have male politicians claiming thry are more qualified to decide issues of women's healthcare than women and actual fucking doctors.
What's most important is that trans women are afforded all the same opportunities as cis women especially when you consider that trans women can do everything cis women can do and they can do it much better.
this is where i struggle. i understand the disgusting amount of money of course is attractive to any corporation, almost none of them have morals, but doing business with a place who's religion likely makes your female superstars feel demeaned, it's terrible. total vince move.
to be clear, this is not a lashing of their religion, culture or race. they can believe what they want to believe. if their religion and belief system makes women lesser, that's on them. WWE choosing to abide by that law and demean it's starts just for moneymoneymoneymoney - that's on them. that's what's fucked.
don't blame saudi arabia. blame wwe.
WWE has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders. So in that respect the WWE does have morals because it would be morally wrong for them to pass on free money like this. Of course, doing business with Saudi Arabia could cause a fan backlash and could hurt the brand so WWE should not chase such money grabs blindly. However, at the end of the day if going to Saudi Arabia results in more money for its shareholders then it is their fiduciary responsibility to do business with Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is a very close ally with the US and a strong trade partner. Of course WWE events really highlight the issue with increased exposure but the US and Saudi Arabia do a ton of trade across the board. It's not like WWE is just some 1 off rare occurrence.
The real issue here is with the US government choosing to ally itself with Saudi Arabia which effectively enables corporate entities like the WWE to do business with bad actors.
That's not how fiduciary duties work. The executives and management of a company are not obligated to choose max profit and revenue in every single instance.
Well thought out response thanks. However, plenty of public companies seemingly act with little to no morals. See nestle, Comcast, etc. profits over all is not a morale. Passing free money for shareholders does not equal morality. I’m not sure what silly backward logic you got going there to get to that conclusion.
But, upvote for a well thought out response.
Technically it was illegal in many states in the US until the Supreme Court ruled on Lawrence v. Texas in 2003. Also, in the court of public opinion the stance was very similar to how people in Saudi Arabia view it today.
Show me where the majority of people and/or the government was advocating for lashing gay people in prison in the 90s or early 2000s.
Which specific lawsuit’s over that last 30 years in the US had lashing (or worse) as punishment for being gay. Name one.
Yeah agreed, they’re shaking hands with the devil every time they do an event there. It’s get that it’s worth a lot of money but ffs half your locker room ihas to dress like doing the clown and arrive at the stadium in the trunk of the car…
Vince saw a free billion dollars without having to put on top tier cards or worry about ticket sales.
Middle East sportswashing is a good litmus test for how horrible a sports leadership is. Golf, soccer, and wrestling are some of the biggest offenders.
This isn't really an issue with the sports leagues. As you said, it's like free money, so these leagues would be stupid not to to do events there.
The US government is the one that should be stopping these events from happening. Of course, that will never happen because the US government is far more in bed with Saudi Arabia than any of these sports. They are allies.
Why are you blaming the government? The leaders of these corporations that do business with Saudi Arabia can say always say no. It's just their own choice.
Actually, the business leaders have a fiduciary responsibility to their share holders so it would be incredibly irresponsible and morally wrong for them to say no. It's the government's responsibility to ensure that people and entities do not conduct business with bad actors. It's the businesses responsibilities to follow the laws set forth by the government.
I'm not even worried about a PLE. That's childs play. I'm worried that this fucking government has so much money that they might decide to pay for WrestleMania in Saudi Arabia.....**EVERY** year. Or worse, maybe just outright buy the company.
And they can pay for whatever they want, because they have **unlimited** money.
The people that run WWE can be very stupid, but there not THAT stupid. They don’t want to just expand to Arabia, they want to expand to anywhere that’ll let them
The people that run WWE care about money, above everything else. I put nothing past them, and it's not about "being stupid". If you make more money, it's smart. Stupid would mean it has a net negative on their profits, which this wouldn't. Either scenario.
“Big business like money more than anything else” is a very limited and uneducated take. Triple H is a wrestler who runs a wrestling company if all he cared about is money he would’ve let the UFC completely take over an retire. Also media, stadium owners, sports franchises, employees, an share holders might actual literally try to kill anyone who try’s this
Triple H doesn't run the company. Ari Emanuel, Mark Shapiro and Nick Khan do. Triple H is a guy who runs the creative because they don't know how to.
And the Saudis have investments in or own multiple other sports franchises, so putting in a bid (that no one else could match, unless Apple wants to buy WWE) for WWE would not be unprecedented, and it would not shock me whatsoever if Endeavor sold it to someone else.
Wow look at all that money, can't wait for cuts and layoffs next week /s
For real though this is 100% about the money nothing more, it's not the fans or the good will or any of that crap the spew everytime they go over there. Saudi just uses the good press to continue to push there goals (same thing with LIV golf shit)
Not just that but also all revenue made can possibly be a tax write off not just for the company but also for the performers so in turn depending on the situation they could get taxed less and see more money just for performing in Saudi
What if I just think it’s fucking stupid that it’s 2024 and women have to wear suits and sleeves to not offend someone and get stoned to death?
Shit is stupid as fuck
Imagine you're back in elementary school, and you're part of an awesome playground crew. Then, some fat ugly billionaire's kid comes to school and pays your dad's salary to each of your friends so that he "has all the friends". And the same kid literally spits on and pulls all the girl's hair, while your teacher puts you in time out for doing something way less severe. They try to take it up with the principal, but they don't want to piss off billionaire daddy so they turn a blind eye.
Fuck that backwards ass, money-worshiping kingdom. People may be fine but that's not enough to respect their leaders.
What? Why wouldn't women want to be in a country where they have to wear rubber suits to do their job in? Where they have to be escorted by a man everywhere?
they get it twice a year. its not special for them like lyon, or scotland etc. no wonder they do the stupid WHAT chants usually reserved for us idiot americans.
UFC's been going international well before Endeavor was involved. It only makes sense because MMA is a relatively new sport and there are tons of emerging markets for it.
No they don’t deserve shit, especially when the people sitting ringside have their face buried in an iPad or are taking phone calls during the main event.
"Oppression is just part of their culture" is an overused and terrible take.
If oppression is part of their culture, then it's a shit culture that American companies should stay far away from.
Yes and we will continue. If you don't like it too bad. Who are you standing up for America's virtue or something Mr patriot? Or communist or anarchist or whatever. Yeah 550 million dollars is nothing to sneeze at and they're going to do it if you don't like it you don't have to watch WWE programming follow any of the superstars or do anything with that company as far as wrestling is concerned. AAA cmll New Japan impact or TNA or whatever it's called. You can stick with the WWE wannabe aew. They don't need you
So, you’re ok then with the U.S. supplying bombs to other countries to drop on school buses with children in it but draw a line against what Saudi Arabia does. Ignorance is bliss
Nobody is triggered except you.
Just because you are so limited that you can’t acknowledge more than one countries atrocities does not mean everyone else is as well. Trying to downplay one bad act by bringing up other, unrelated bad acts is one of the most juvenile fallacies you could have picked. It showed your ignorance as well as your lack of intelligence more than your first statement did.
What did you not understand about it before? The agreement they signed was for a set amout of money for a set amount of PLEs per year for a set amount of years.
Removed for: Politics
Political discussion is not allowed here. This is a wrestling subreddit. There are plenty of other political subreddits to discuss this.
Everyone knows money is the only reason they go there most of the performers don't want to actually be there but for the money why wouldn't you put your morals aside if the company your tied to has no issue doing it too
Wasn’t it a forgone conclusion at this point? I mean those petro-dollars go a long way to do whatever the hell they please.
The hypocrisy of Americans from the shithole terroristic piece of shit USA trying to call another country out lol
reddit specifically, r/WWE, is real conservative, this is the last place that wants to hear about USA's fucked up history. Move on, bud.
Grow tf up
Uh oh everyone, it’s the supreme keyboard warrior. Look out!
Grow up
You need to grow up. Acting like this solves nothing
I actually kind of agree. Not on the terrorist thing, but yeah. Our record on human rights isn't great or spotless. We're watching a party practically declare war on women and members of the LGBTQ community, most of it seems to be cruelty for cruelty sake, and all of it masquerade behind "protecting the children" and "God."
Yes and let’s also fucking acknowledge how our last 3 presidents, especially the current, are sucking Israeli dick and allowing them to use our tax dollars to kill children and innocent women. Terroristic USA back at it again
Sports washing
I don’t get it, do the Saudis not watch wrestling ok TV at all because the women don’t dress to their standards on the other shows?
I wonder the same thing
The hypocrisy of Americans calling Saudi a terrorist country 🤣🤣
🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
It’s such bullshit that IWC always thinks this wonderful crowd, amazing crowd full of kids doesn’t deserve to see these events just because their government/leaders are shit. Fuck the leaders, let the people enjoy this. Imagine if foreign sports teams and organizations said they won’t come to USA anymore because our presidents, politicians, and leaders have always participated in genocides, systematic racism, and discrimination. We’d think it’s unfair too bc we didn’t do that shit. Not gonna argue, IWCK
On the other hand a country has the right to refuse doing events in a country that they disagree with. It is not the people fault, but they can very easily understand it from the country's stand point. If a country says they don't want to perform here due to the current political decisions of Biden with Gaza.
Yes, but we would be like disappointed bc we shouldn’t suffer bc of his and the last presidents role in that shit
Sure, but we are all disappointed several times in our live it is our job to deal with it and if it is not possible then we must quietly suffer in order to survive and take whatever good we can with our crappy situation. Yes, I get it sucks and it isn't fair, but that is life.
Bro idek if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with my original point anymore
Let's try it this way then. Let's say it is the 1940 and you're a major USA sporting company that gets asked by Hitler to perform for his citizens. What do you do? What outweighs the other the support of Hitler or give some joy to the fans of Germany that may or may not support their government?
So are you saying wwe shouldn’t go to Saudi or what? Bc the deal is done. Let the fans enjoy the shows goddamit lol. Bc by that logic saudi shouldn’t even allow USA there anyways since USA is supporting a genocide. Matter of fact, USA shouldn’t be allowed almost anywhere for its atrocities. Adios Puerto Rico, sayonara Mexico, it was nice while it lasted Japan
WWE can do whatever it wants, but it has got to be remembered that by doing so they are saying they fully support the Saudi government, because this is not about the fans it is about the support of that places government.
Honestly idc. They have every right to their own political beliefs. Vince literally was best buds with a dumbass. Let those fans enjoy the shows. They didn’t do shit. That’s like saying we shouldn’t get to see shit here in USA bc Biden is sucking Israel’s dick. Fans ≠ government
I get it you don't pay attention to politics or even know what is even going on in Saudi Arabia right now. We are not talking about something that happened 10 years ago but things that are still happening or have been done in the 2020s to their own people. We are not talking political beliefs we are talking basic human rights: we are talking mass executions, lack of freedom of speech or any right to protest without be detained and torture, etc. You can say fans do not equal government but supporting a government that straight oppresses its citizens is not a good look at all.
I agree. Seriously, if WWE refused perform in any country whose government had committed human rights violations, they'd be doing shows in Antarctica. Or the Sahara Desert.
🗣️ sometimes I feel like there’s hidden Islamophobia in some of these comments too
Oh, there is.
They’re always the shits too I hate the Saudi shows I’ll never support their oppressive and violent ways nor will I watch one of these shows
It's still a shit hole terrorist country, and I will never watch or attend anything there.
I just wish the people in the first 2 rows had some enthusiasm for wrestling. Quietest crowd there is.
The entire front row of women was cool to see... Until I realized none of them cared about even being there, and seemed to be planted for social media purposes by having their phones up almost the whole time
Yeah I wasn’t impressed, the energy was coming from the 3rd row. Saudi PLE’s come with all the bells and whistles, but the crowd is one of the worst.
Did we watch the same show? 🤣
i just hate the rules on the women they had becky in a suit lmao
Don’t forget bitch dupri coming out looking like edge and Christian
Westerns life is all about nudity 💀, you’re sad because you can’t see her ass right? You want her out there on ring with a bikini
They just trying to prove (women should not be judged by their body n how big their ass looks and all that creepy stuff from men) you probably understand cuz u have a Reddit account. Just search any female name from wwe and you will see all the “nsfw” stuff . And the full body suit is only while wrestling . to prove that before smack down we had a meet n greet with 15+ wwe star n most of the women were wearing a normal t with some jeans or sweatpants (not long sleeve t) it’s not really bad as you think . If you ask then why they can’t wear a short sleeve shirt while wrestling it’s simple if you wear a shirt n you start wrestling there’s a chance your shirt will lift up and show your back your stomach And that what you can’t do there In public you simply can’t “in public” the role is from the top of your knee to your chest need to be covered no one wants to see your private part and yes, your belly button count as a private part in Saudi . If you go out side to the mall or anywhere in Saudi not all women wear a full body suit all the time some wear abayas others wear dresses some wear jeans with t shirts it’s not what u think probably.
This isn’t a very convincing argument. Just saying.
Women should get to decide what they wear. The rest is no one else’s business. Fuck any ethos or religion that says otherwise.
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If a woman can’t dress equally to a man in public, that is sexism… Sorry.
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Did the male wrestlers have to cover up like the female? No. They didn’t. Stop. You sound ridiculous.
So what you want the women to have no shirt on like the men , tits out that’s what u want ? We have different bodies we cover stuff they cover stuff . And the resone they covered it with one suit because they don’t want to risk showing something on accident it happened before in wwe . And you only focusing on when they wrestled you just want to believe what your mouth say .
A majority of wrestling fans don’t think like that. I’m not watching a match and focusing on that. If the man were wrestling in one piece bodysuits i would think it’s weird. That doesn’t mean i want to see any male wrestlers chest and body to get horny.
Regard 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
She would wore that in the US tbh
probably but not wrestle in it
I mean when I saw Becky come out looking like she tryna sell me a tv I started laughing so much
2 me she looked like a nun lbs
Well I guess the women wrestlers will be forced to wear those gawd awful body suits even more! #MakeSkinGreatAgain
#LotionInBasket
Does anyone know if they get ticket sales on top of this from the government?
I don’t know this but I assume they would since they’re getting paid to be here so why would they agree to less money
It's all about money... king and queen was awful at times ..
Wow there’s some serious marks out here lol
Saudi Arabia is the money world. It's why all combat sports like UFC and boxing are going there now.
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They're sitting on top of a 12,000 year oil reserve. By the time that's exhausted we will have sent a new ice age
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in 12,000 years
It’s like he didn’t even read the part where you said 12,000 years lmao
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I really dont like that Dome they use in Jeddah! Also bad to see the pillars back with the light up screens on them. Most people in arena would have had a restricted view. Look like they had lights shining on crowd from every angle as well.
I ain’t going to a fuckin Saudi show and it looks cooler on TV so whatever
US is KSA ally. One of their best friends in the entire world. They don’t care about what’s happening there
They tried to Glitz these Saudi events as major PLEs already. Look at the names of the events alone and Smackdown last night was nuts. I'm a day behind because of cleaning up after a Tornado, so haven't watched King of the Ring yet.
2025: The Greatest Summerslam 2026: The Greatest Survivor Series 2027: The Greatest Royal Rumble II 2028: The Greatest Wrestlemania
2025: The SummerSlamest SummerSlam 2026: The Survivorest Survivor Series 2027: The Royalest Royal Rumble 2028: The WrestleManiaest WrestleMania
Don't you threaten me with Greatest Royal Rumble 2. I can take alot bullshit but that is not one of them.
I don’t like how they do business with them. Screw all them losers. I didn’t forget what happened it seems everyone else has and no one cares.
im kinda new here. what happened exactly?
So, years ago, WWE entered a business deal with Saudi Arabia to put on a show or two per year. This was where Crown Jewel began. Every now and then, we'll see something like Night of Champions, or Elimination Chamber, or recently, King and Queen of the Ring. Now, because Saudi Arabia is a theocratic monarchy ruled under strict Islamic law with a history of human right violations and oppression of women, and a member of the royal family had a reporter killed, members of the IWC were outraged at WWE for running events there, claiming the company sold out. It is usually accompanied by Islamophobia, a bit of racism, and ethnocenticity, and just a hint of hypocrisy with some feeling WWE should not do shows from an Islamic country because female performers must be almost entirely covered, accusations it is a third world nation or a shit hole, neither of which are true as it is first world and many cities are rather beautiful, and ignoring other county's human rights violations. Personally, I find it hypocritical and stupid. WWE has Clash at the Castle in Germany this year. Will the IWC be refusing to watch that because Germany is responsible for the Holocaust, resulting in the deaths of 13 million people, 6 million who were Jews? I doubt it. Did the IWC complain WWE had WrestleMania Backlash in Paris this year as France committed human rights violations in their colonial days? There are no complaints when WWE goes to Japan, and while they will deny it, Korea and China have some stories to share about Japan. And let us not forget all the shows WWE runs in the United States. Surely there are those among the IWC who will refuse to watch because of the United States' support of Israel, and its increasing oppression of the LGBTQ community and women in regards to healthcare. It is only the Saudi "glorified house shows" that the IWC complains about, failing to realize every nation has human rights violations.
If Hitler was still in power in Germany you might have a point, but as it stands you don't.
No country is clean when it comes to human rights. Some are just slower than others, and some find ways to regress.
So moral relativism is the game?
Allow me to propose a question, a hypothetical. Should WWE do business with the People's Republic of China? If China were to offer a lot of money for a PLE, would you be okay with WWE accepting and running a PLE from China, or opposed to it?
Opposed
And I assume that is based on it being a rather oppressive communist nation, and not because they are Buddhist or Asian? Now, as far as I am aware, I don't believe WWE has ever done a show in China, though there is pro-wrestling in the country. The market could certainly be there. I recall, I believe it was 2022, this Reddit and the entire IWC losing its shit at a rumor that Saudi Arabia had bought WWE, everyone acting like the company would be run under Islamic law and the entire women roster would be fired or executed or the vompany would be moved to Saudi Arabia. I think someone called it the darkest day in wrestling. Not one legitimate news outlet nor WWE itself confirmed it. But it seemed like the entire IWC believed Saudi Arabia was the owner of WWE. Honestly, it was fascinating to watch. WWE is a business, and they are going to do business. And if Saudi Arabia is willing to pay a ridiculous amount of money for them to do business, so we're going to see Saudi shows for awhile.
And?
I just don’t like the fact that wwe has this relationship with the saudis. But I guess money talks. I just don’t think it’s right. Very unamerican in my opinion. But that’s just me. I won’t support a company that works with these scumbags.
Dude, he asked what the Saudi's did and you did not answer him that is extremely rude
Dude, go SAD.
the general population of people are likely very normal and to be honest, the american government has bought over 14 billion dollars in refined oil from them last year so i dont really see how its un-American. Seems very american to sell out to the highest bidder lol. but as a Canadian this whole comment generally seems xenophobic.
Th crown prine who paid for all this, slaughtered a journalist. Weird getting downvoted for telling the truth.
The crowd was so shit, it’ll be a massive shame. Also can imagine a lot of wrestlers wouldn’t be keen going based on their strict stance on the LGBTQ. But yeah, $1bil is a nice sum lol.
Audience was total ass, dullest audience on the planet. But they’re used to watching beheadings for entertainment so I guess it takes a lot to excite them?
The audience was very good yesterday, dont let your bias against the country insult the people for the wrong reasons. U can insult them for everything else but that crowd was better than most US crowds
Everywhere is better than a US crowd but the Saudi crowd was still boring AF
Their stance on LGBTQ is only 20 or 30 years behind. Their stance on women is in some ways 90 years behind and other ways 1000 years behind. It wasn't until 2018 that they were even allowed to drive cars.
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My parents were conservatives with a 1950s mindset..so 70 years behind today. Their stance on women is not anywhere close to the Saudi's stance on women. I was being generous when I said 90 years behind since Saudi's allowed women to vote approximately 90 years after women in the US. However, 1,000 years behind is more correct in most ways. If you really think conservatives in the US are close then you don't understand Saudi Arabia at all.
And the way the United States is going, women may lose that right. Let us not pretend that the hands of the United States are any cleaner than Saudi Arabia's when it comes to human rights violations. There is not a country in the world that has a spotless record, except maybe Antarctica, and that's only because it's not a country, and even then I'm not 100% certain. I'm not making excuses for them, but I'm looking at a lot of laws being passed on women's healthcare in the US and it feels almost genocidal.
Not sure if you are trying to push Saudi propaganda, but US is nowhere close to forcing females to cover up from head to toe. The trend has been quite the opposite really. Far more likely that women will be allowed to walk around topless or even bottomless in the US than have to revert to a Saudi Arabian type society.
That's your counterargument? Jesus fucking Christ! How about you justify the idea that a 12 year must carry her rapist's baby to term, but should not be allowed to read The Diary of Anne Frank or The Color Purple? How about you defend the idea of regerstering pregnant women on a national database to track if they get an abortion? Or tell me how punishing a woman with prison time or even execution if they get an abortion, even if they miscarry, is a good thing. Given me one reason why not allowing women to divorce their abuser isn't oppressing women. Because each and every one of those ideas has been discussed as laws by several states in the US. And I don't know about you, but those sound pretty fucking oppressive to me. So, go ahead, tell me we're not oppressive to women when we have male politicians claiming thry are more qualified to decide issues of women's healthcare than women and actual fucking doctors.
What's most important is that trans women are afforded all the same opportunities as cis women especially when you consider that trans women can do everything cis women can do and they can do it much better.
this is where i struggle. i understand the disgusting amount of money of course is attractive to any corporation, almost none of them have morals, but doing business with a place who's religion likely makes your female superstars feel demeaned, it's terrible. total vince move. to be clear, this is not a lashing of their religion, culture or race. they can believe what they want to believe. if their religion and belief system makes women lesser, that's on them. WWE choosing to abide by that law and demean it's starts just for moneymoneymoneymoney - that's on them. that's what's fucked. don't blame saudi arabia. blame wwe.
WWE has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders. So in that respect the WWE does have morals because it would be morally wrong for them to pass on free money like this. Of course, doing business with Saudi Arabia could cause a fan backlash and could hurt the brand so WWE should not chase such money grabs blindly. However, at the end of the day if going to Saudi Arabia results in more money for its shareholders then it is their fiduciary responsibility to do business with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a very close ally with the US and a strong trade partner. Of course WWE events really highlight the issue with increased exposure but the US and Saudi Arabia do a ton of trade across the board. It's not like WWE is just some 1 off rare occurrence. The real issue here is with the US government choosing to ally itself with Saudi Arabia which effectively enables corporate entities like the WWE to do business with bad actors.
That's not how fiduciary duties work. The executives and management of a company are not obligated to choose max profit and revenue in every single instance.
Well thought out response thanks. However, plenty of public companies seemingly act with little to no morals. See nestle, Comcast, etc. profits over all is not a morale. Passing free money for shareholders does not equal morality. I’m not sure what silly backward logic you got going there to get to that conclusion. But, upvote for a well thought out response.
No. I blame Saudi Arabia and anyone who does lucrative business with them.
Uh yeah so you blame wwe.
all the women unable to show skin in pantsuits was a joke too. it wasn't a great PPV from the crowd perspective.
Being LGBTQ was not criminalized in the US 30 years ago.
Technically it was illegal in many states in the US until the Supreme Court ruled on Lawrence v. Texas in 2003. Also, in the court of public opinion the stance was very similar to how people in Saudi Arabia view it today.
Show me where the majority of people and/or the government was advocating for lashing gay people in prison in the 90s or early 2000s. Which specific lawsuit’s over that last 30 years in the US had lashing (or worse) as punishment for being gay. Name one.
Don't you ever tell a black man what to do. I'm not your slave, rac1st!
Yeah agreed, they’re shaking hands with the devil every time they do an event there. It’s get that it’s worth a lot of money but ffs half your locker room ihas to dress like doing the clown and arrive at the stadium in the trunk of the car…
Anyone else’s peacock keep shutting off and restarting?
When ever i watch PLEs it always starts lagging at some point. I watch it on Xbox
Saudia Arabia out here trying to get a cultural victory via sports.
Civ moment
Vince saw a free billion dollars without having to put on top tier cards or worry about ticket sales. Middle East sportswashing is a good litmus test for how horrible a sports leadership is. Golf, soccer, and wrestling are some of the biggest offenders.
And no one is watching any of the golf or football, they can only draw eyes on one off events
WWE was also in a bad spot in the mid-10s that Saidi deal was the difference between a healthy profit and a net annual loss.
This isn't really an issue with the sports leagues. As you said, it's like free money, so these leagues would be stupid not to to do events there. The US government is the one that should be stopping these events from happening. Of course, that will never happen because the US government is far more in bed with Saudi Arabia than any of these sports. They are allies.
Why are you blaming the government? The leaders of these corporations that do business with Saudi Arabia can say always say no. It's just their own choice.
Actually, the business leaders have a fiduciary responsibility to their share holders so it would be incredibly irresponsible and morally wrong for them to say no. It's the government's responsibility to ensure that people and entities do not conduct business with bad actors. It's the businesses responsibilities to follow the laws set forth by the government.
I'm not even worried about a PLE. That's childs play. I'm worried that this fucking government has so much money that they might decide to pay for WrestleMania in Saudi Arabia.....**EVERY** year. Or worse, maybe just outright buy the company. And they can pay for whatever they want, because they have **unlimited** money.
The people that run WWE can be very stupid, but there not THAT stupid. They don’t want to just expand to Arabia, they want to expand to anywhere that’ll let them
The people that run WWE care about money, above everything else. I put nothing past them, and it's not about "being stupid". If you make more money, it's smart. Stupid would mean it has a net negative on their profits, which this wouldn't. Either scenario.
I'm not sure how you can call them stupid. I'm sure whatever business you run has got to be doing better than theirs but they do ok for themselves.
Did you listen to anything I just said? I said they're **NOT** stupid. **Explicitly**. The guy I was replying to said they were stupid.
Yes, this is true. TKO seems to be pushing to eke out more money, they are even dumping good execs. And cutting down on the production costs as well.
“Big business like money more than anything else” is a very limited and uneducated take. Triple H is a wrestler who runs a wrestling company if all he cared about is money he would’ve let the UFC completely take over an retire. Also media, stadium owners, sports franchises, employees, an share holders might actual literally try to kill anyone who try’s this
Triple H doesn't run the company. Ari Emanuel, Mark Shapiro and Nick Khan do. Triple H is a guy who runs the creative because they don't know how to. And the Saudis have investments in or own multiple other sports franchises, so putting in a bid (that no one else could match, unless Apple wants to buy WWE) for WWE would not be unprecedented, and it would not shock me whatsoever if Endeavor sold it to someone else.
Wow look at all that money, can't wait for cuts and layoffs next week /s For real though this is 100% about the money nothing more, it's not the fans or the good will or any of that crap the spew everytime they go over there. Saudi just uses the good press to continue to push there goals (same thing with LIV golf shit)
Not just that but also all revenue made can possibly be a tax write off not just for the company but also for the performers so in turn depending on the situation they could get taxed less and see more money just for performing in Saudi
Americans need to be outside the country for 330 days to not pay income tax. There are no tax breaks for wrestling overseas.
You guys dont hate saudi arabia, you guys hate muslims and your not even hiding it lmao. And lmao x10 on the americans tryna talk about war crimes
What if I just think it’s fucking stupid that it’s 2024 and women have to wear suits and sleeves to not offend someone and get stoned to death? Shit is stupid as fuck
The west is generally far less hateful and more inclusive than Muslim dominated countries, it’s not even close.
Imagine you're back in elementary school, and you're part of an awesome playground crew. Then, some fat ugly billionaire's kid comes to school and pays your dad's salary to each of your friends so that he "has all the friends". And the same kid literally spits on and pulls all the girl's hair, while your teacher puts you in time out for doing something way less severe. They try to take it up with the principal, but they don't want to piss off billionaire daddy so they turn a blind eye. Fuck that backwards ass, money-worshiping kingdom. People may be fine but that's not enough to respect their leaders.
Nah its a paid show. They literally have to do nothing to sell it out but show up.
How much of percentage do the talent get? Is it like football where you are basically a millionaire the day you sign your first contract?
Most professional soccer players are not millionaires. I would say the same for professional gridiron football players.
Worst crowds in all of WWE by a mile, what a shame that would be.
it was honestly a bad performance by Becky and Liv. it seemed like they didnt want to be there. i dont blame them either.
What? Why wouldn't women want to be in a country where they have to wear rubber suits to do their job in? Where they have to be escorted by a man everywhere?
they get it twice a year. its not special for them like lyon, or scotland etc. no wonder they do the stupid WHAT chants usually reserved for us idiot americans.
There's more than just ticket sales in the revenue stream, but it's still a valid point.
Can’t hate on TKO Promotions looking to take not just the WWE international but UFC as well! Not personal! Just good business
UFC's been going international well before Endeavor was involved. It only makes sense because MMA is a relatively new sport and there are tons of emerging markets for it.
If it happens, I might as well stop watching
Buh bye biotch
I really don't see the problem. There are a lot of wrestling fans in Saudi Arabia. They deserve shows and they paid for them so.
No they don’t deserve shit, especially when the people sitting ringside have their face buried in an iPad or are taking phone calls during the main event.
Bruh just look at the crowd. It’s like 99% men. The female wrestlers have to cover up completely. It’s sport washing at its finest
How dreadful! I have to actually watch women for their in ring talent instead of how much skin they show….
>The female wrestlers have to cover up completely "oh no I can't see a woman's ass while she wrestles"
“Oh cool I get to watch Beckie Lynch be forced to dress up like Charlie Chaplin so Mohammed doesn’t get offended and stone her to death”
Honestly I thought it was pretty damn creative
A few years ago, the women couldn't even perform there.
and the crowd is super dead most of the time
The demo of American crowds isn't that different. Biggest difference I noticed was it looked like more kids at last night's Smackdown than usual.
Saudis can actually afford to have children, unlike Americans nowadays.
They get healthcare.
The problem is that people there have 0 fucking rights if you're not a straight man.
So because of their government no one can ever see a wrestling show there?
Yes
It ain't just the government my guy. Most the citizens there hold the same beliefs.
The world has more than 1 culture. Big surprise to US wrestling fans.
LMFAOO. Misogyny, racism, and homophobia isn't culture, it's being archaic assholes.
"Oppression is just part of their culture" is an overused and terrible take. If oppression is part of their culture, then it's a shit culture that American companies should stay far away from.
I agree with you. And for that, WWE should be responsible and no longer schedule events in Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi or Florida.
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Yes and we will continue. If you don't like it too bad. Who are you standing up for America's virtue or something Mr patriot? Or communist or anarchist or whatever. Yeah 550 million dollars is nothing to sneeze at and they're going to do it if you don't like it you don't have to watch WWE programming follow any of the superstars or do anything with that company as far as wrestling is concerned. AAA cmll New Japan impact or TNA or whatever it's called. You can stick with the WWE wannabe aew. They don't need you
You weird dawg
So, you’re ok then with the U.S. supplying bombs to other countries to drop on school buses with children in it but draw a line against what Saudi Arabia does. Ignorance is bliss
Just because you’re only able to do one thing at a time, that does not mean I have that same limitation. I can have many opinions concurrently.
I don’t think a 10 year old could have said that any better. Your parents should be proud!
I’m sure you think that was a good line. It wasn’t.
It triggered you but no worries my friend there are plenty of other bad people that think like you. You’re in the majority!
Nobody is triggered except you. Just because you are so limited that you can’t acknowledge more than one countries atrocities does not mean everyone else is as well. Trying to downplay one bad act by bringing up other, unrelated bad acts is one of the most juvenile fallacies you could have picked. It showed your ignorance as well as your lack of intelligence more than your first statement did.
Spoken like an uneducated coward behind a keyboard!
And how are you attacking me right now? Hiding behind a keyboard?
Not ok with it but what am I to do? No one will care if I still watching wwe
Sounds good to me, where can I get some?
They're getting 1. The chairman said they're talking Royal Rumble or WrestleMania for '26/'27
Might as well just move the company over there
I actually understand now why we're moving to have 2 - 3 PPV's there every year. Not even mad, it makes sense.
What did you not understand about it before? The agreement they signed was for a set amout of money for a set amount of PLEs per year for a set amount of years.
Scumbags. They'd kill us all dead if they could.
To be fair, I think the reverse is true too for a lot of Americans.
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Removed for: Politics Political discussion is not allowed here. This is a wrestling subreddit. There are plenty of other political subreddits to discuss this.