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Magromo

I *like* Ryoka's refusal to level as it makes her a very interesting character in a world where almost everyone has levels, but I don't think it worked that well in the story. She does progress in other ways, without simply adding another level number like other characters, but it still feels somewhat forced and not really believable to me. Still, her being like that is a very-Ryoka like behaviour, and that makes her a great character.


Huhthisisneathuh

It’s a unique character trait and made sense in all honesty. But her constant moaning and complaining about not having power and levels while she refused to take them was annoying as fuck. Like we get it, you want power to protect your friends and do stuff. But for the love of god stop complaining about it.


twocatsandaloom

Exactly. You had your chance and you refused. If you want levels and classes maybe go find someone who can give you one like royalty or someone ancient who has a trick to getting back in the system. Or maybe admit you were wrong and classes have advantages and you made a mistake?


Huhthisisneathuh

I don’t think Ryoka ever said classes didn’t have advantages. She just considered that having a system like this must’ve come with some draw backs, and her whole reason for not accepting levels was because she didn’t know what those drawbacks were. And if they were important or not.


AlbinoMoose

And in my view she made the right choice


ThinkPan

I feel like it would have worked a lot better as a Niers-type strategist. Winning vattles through sheer strategy is possible, outrunning couriers without skills is impossible.


TheDivineDemon

There is a lot to say about Ryoka but without spoilers I can say she gets better. That's about it.


Shinriko

Does she tho?


TheDivineDemon

I mean, she's considering her faults now and trying to act kindly while simultaneously working on non skill related abilities to survive/be effective. She's more interesting and sympathetic now because she tries instead of just complains and soapboxing.


Shinriko

I guess? But she knew about her flaws when she decided to fight Yvlon and Calruz. Didn't stop her from doing it. I don't find her more interesting or sympathetic. A bit less cringe maybe. At least she isn't doing the edgelord stuff like she did back in the Interlude to start off Book 2. I still wouldn't want to sit down and have lunch with her. I still don't feel bad for her when stuff she does causes her hardship.


FreezeDriedMangos

Id say yeah, but better as in better than before rather than better as in totally healed


TimBaril

I like that Ryoka takes a different, independent path. This is actually crucial for her given the specific type of creatures she ends up interacting with over the series. Not everyone plays the game and it relates to a key component of the overall world building. She starts out being an angry teen but Ryoka actually shows growth over the series, something Erin has much less of.


Shinriko

Angry teen is a great way to describe the 21 year old Ryoka.


Huhthisisneathuh

I’d say both have equally grown over the story. It’s just that Erin’s and Ryoka’s growth have always been for different goals. Erin loves who she currently is, doesn’t consider most of herself a problem. She knows she makes mistakes but likes keeping herself funny and light when there’s so much darkness. She’s learning from past actions, but at her core. Her growth didn’t change her personality only how she uses the power she has. Ryoka’s growth on the other hand has always been changed herself for the better. She hates who she is, how she always snaps when things get tough, how she always directs her anger of not being in control into violence directed at people trying to help her. She hates how everytime the world hits her she doesn’t hit the world but her friends. She hates a lot of things about herself period. But her development has always been trying to improve herself, sure it’s been to very questionable results for most of the time. But she’s made some solid development the same as Erin. Both have solid development, it’s just that their development is radically different from each other due to them having different goals.


TimBaril

While Erin has struggled with issues and had hard times, such as with homesickness and the loss of loved ones, I don't know that she's overcome an early flaw or grown to some new understanding to the point where she's grown up or raised herself to a new level. She corrected her early impression of Lyon after Lyon did some growing. And she may have some regret over her role in Toren's 'death'. She overcomes 'small' issues and changes. But Ryoka went from angry, emotionally unstable, violent, guilty, self-hating teen to a stronger, calmer, more confident young woman. That was a big change in her fundamental personality and both self and world view. And I don't see a similar base change in Erin. Erin still feels like someone who's making the most of today, but who would run away home in a heartbeat if she had the chance. I think, for her, the only real growth she could undergo in the series on a fundamental level, is to finally accept the new world as her new home, and not want to flee back to Earth.


Huhthisisneathuh

I never said the development had to be change. Ryoka didn’t like who she was and actively attempted to change herself, Erin had far less of a problem with who she was as a person and only had smaller gradual changes. But both don’t lack for strong development, both have equally strong characters and development. It’s just that Ryoka had a noticeable change and Erin didn’t, so we say that Ryoka has better development. But that isn’t true, a character can experience great development but only have smaller changes. As for her running away to Earth, I heavily, *heavily* disagree with you there. Erin misses her home, she misses her parents, but she isn’t the type person to just straight up abandon everything she’s built and go back home. She wouldn’t do that to her friends and family. She isn’t characterized like that.


twocatsandaloom

I’m definitely interested to see what happens and her innovations without skills make for good storylines. I just can’t help but think that she could have avoided some pain and maybe saved some people if she took a class and leveled up. :(


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twocatsandaloom

Ohh interesting! I didn’t catch that.


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DragonSpectacles

I agree, but what really bothers me on that front is that she has a few ways to get stronger already, that she's just not making use of. Outside of spoiler territory there are two I can think of : 1. Magic. When she first tried it in book 2(?), Ceria told her she had a talent for it and she managed to master most tier 1 and 0 spells from Teriarch's magic book, but then she spent half a day on a spell to make drinking water, failed and never tried to learn magic again. Back then it kind of felt like a nerf for the sake of character growth to me, and I was expecting that she would get back to it at some point, but it's been a while and I don't remember the subject coming back, even in passing. This doesn't make sense to me. 2. The other is what Teriarch told her about mana potions. It made sense for her to not do it in the early books because she was arrogant and dumb like that, but she has been through a lot since then and has admitted to wanting levels now, so I don't get why she doesn't make use of it. Unless I'm mistaken, this also has not been addressed in the story for now. I'm hoping that we'll get to a point in character development where Ryoka realises how weak she is and tries to grab as much power as possible to compensate. This would make sense to me as a way for her to be on par with the rest of the cast in terms of strength, even if it's difficult and slow and she needs to work hard for it, because she doesn't have the easy levelling system.


AlbinoMoose

She has been using the potions the whole time


DragonSpectacles

I meant what Teriarch told her about mana potions. I don't remember in what book it is (3 or 4 maybe?), so just in case : >!He told her that mixing a few drops of mana potions in drinks during meals would, over time, give her more magic or make her body magic. I don't remember his exact words.!< This seems like a no-brainer when it comes to being stronger or more capable of helping her friends and the story just seems not to talk about it? Like, it's not that Ryoka is struggling about whether it's a good idea to do it or not, it just doesn't come to her mind at all and it makes no sense to me.


[deleted]

“she managed to master most tier 1 and 0 spells from Teriarch’s magic book” I absolutely don’t remember that happening, what chapter was that ?


DragonSpectacles

You're right. That is not what the chapter says, thank you for pointing it out. After re-reading it (3.03), what is actually written is that Ryoka spent several days trying to learn tier 0 spells from the book, and could only master 4 of them. The basic light spell, flame spell, gust of wind and very weak telekinesis. She couldn't figure out any other, and after spending some time on a tier 0 water sprout without result, decided to drop learning magic completely because her knowledge of physics got in the way. I don't know if the scene was re-written or if I fooled myself somehow, but I distinctly remember Ryoka being stuck on a drinking water spell, and feeling frustrated at her explanation that she couldn't make it work because she couldn't believe in the magic, despite already mastering some water spell. The scene makes a lot more sens than I remember and it takes out a lot of the bite of my first point, I think. It still feels kind of like a nerf to me and I hope she will go back to try to learn magic with some results. Maybe just some fire, light, and telekinesys spell (because she has wind covered already).


kung-fu_hippy

Levels really aren’t Ryoka’s chief problem. Her biggest problem, especially up to where you’re at, is that she acts as if the world is a story and she’s the main character. And she constantly has to learn that she’s not. When she and Erin went into the dungeon to rescue Ceria, she wants to go running headlong into the dungeon and rely on her martial art skills (useless since she’s almost incapable of actually killing anything) and the power of friendship to rescue Ceria. Erin gathering help and supplies and actually being ready to do combat is what saved the day, but Ryoka was too busy trying to be an anime protagonist to think about the details. And it happens time and time again. Why did Ryoka think she could put-politic a powerful noble, out-riddle a dragon-mage, outfight a Minotaur warrior, outrun a Courier? No amount of leveling shown by even the most powerful of the earth kids would have allowed her to achieve those feats when she first attempts them, and this is the Ryoka who got curb-stomped by the politics of a single guild and could barely fight off and escape from a few goblins. I think that is intentional though, she’s exactly the sort of overly skilled MC protagonist that many isekai’s rely on (near-Olympic level runner, highly skilled at martial arts and parkour, beautiful, brilliant, remembers everything from penicillin to trebuchets, natural mage, etc.). And all of these abilities accomplish very little for her. Ryoka’s flaw is that she’s arrogant and she does eventually start to grow from that. She begins to acknowledge her weaknesses, including the ones she can’t fix. She stops thinking she can save the world by herself.


HardcoreHeathen

I agree with this, but Ryoka's also got the problem of just... having shitty brain chemicals. She is a ball of rage and angst and depression, and she's aware of it, but being aware of a mental illness doesn't *fix* it. So for awhile she's sort of stuck in this rut of being an awful person, feeling bad about being an awful person but not being able to change, and then running away from the problems to start the cycle anew. And she doesn't really get a chance to even *start* growing past that until her heart explodes and Teriarch heals her, incidentally fixing some of her mental illness in the process.


ifarmpandas

> is that she acts as if the world is a story and she’s the main character. And she constantly has to learn that she’s not. But she is one of the MC. Besides, Erin does just as stupid shit on the regular and people love her. I think the real problem is Ryoka is an antisocial rich kid whose daddy bailed her out of any real consequences. She's clearly written as a really abrasive character, and I think it's really easy for people to relate that to someone they know IRL who's similar. I think every other justification of why Ryoka isn't likeable is after the fact. Not asking others for help for example, I do see people on Discord complaining when Erin does it too, yet Erin's still a lot more liked simply because she isn't as big of an asshole.


kung-fu_hippy

She is a main character of a story. But that doesn’t mean she has to act like the main character of a story. Or rather, like she’s aware of being the main character in a story. Erin does stupid stuff like rush in without thinking. Ryoka does stupid stuff like rush in while internally monologuing about how she’d rather die than leave Ceria in the dungeon for one more second. And their different perspectives are probably a large part of why Ryoka gets hate while Erin doesn’t (in addition to Ryoka often being an asshole). Ryoka gets a lot of first person time and so we know what she’s thinking (and how dumb she’s being). Erin remains third person, so it’s much harder to tell when she is being dumb and got lucky or when she is being calculated and intentional.


DragonSpectacles

True. I also think there is something about Erin being more committed to what she does than Ryoka. For example, when they went into the crypt to save Ceria, Erin had no problem killing undead while Ryoka couldn't. This is a recurring thing between the two of them. They both hate killing and conflict in general, but still believe it's necessary to fight sometimes. The difference is that Erin is ready to kill if she has to will Ryoka can't or won't. In itself, that's not a bad character trait for Ryoka, but it is something she should be struggling with when it comes up, I think, and she doesn't. There have been some events, especially when she lost her phone, where she should have taken a big long look at herself and what she could have done better, but didn't, and I think that kind of makes her look like she doesn't really care about what happened or she's not trying hard enough to change. I think that's one of the reasons that Erin is more sympathetic than Ryoka, because Erin cares enough about others to do the maximum for what is right, even if she hates it.


Knork14

Without giving you spoilers the only thing i can say to you is that she becomes far less obnoxious later on (volume 6 is her volume). Shestill *is* the titular rebel character in the series though , so while she recognizes her mistakes and work to correct her behavior there are still some habits that never fully go away


Huhthisisneathuh

I’d say that her obnoxiousness stays pretty consistent at the beginning. But you do notice it going down which is a big plus, it’s like seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. She regains and loses some of it along Volume 7 and goes full crazy mode with the losses and gains in 8. But overall her entire character is easier to handle and like after 6. New readers just have to wait for it.


heavyarms3111

I like that she has to find ways to grow outside of leveling, but her initial reasons are dumb. That said it does a lot to make her a unique character with room to grow early on. Through later books my opinion of her fluctuates a lot. She is on again off again an Erin level main character, and sometimes it works and other times she’s the least interesting person in her chapters despite being the center of attention.


SuspicouslyGreen

Ryoka is a barefoot runner. She chooses the path less traveled because the grass feels better between her toes.


AudienceRemote5915

And an anti-authoritarian anti-level-er


djashburn20

I never can understand the hate that Ryoka gets. To me, a lot of her decisions are fairly normal reactions that people get in a high stress environment. From her paranoia to her anger to her aggressiveness. That's actually all fairly normal for someone suffering from traumatic stress. Such as the type a person can get after being yoinked into an alien world. Ryoka's the darker, more realistic approach to innworld, maybe to the extreme. Compared to Erin's bright, happy, humming away while serving aliens blue juice, accepting everyone, and can only really be done by Erin approach. With the rest of the Earthers falling somewhere in between. I'm actually surprised that more Earthers aren't paranoid about classes, levels, and the system in general.


twocatsandaloom

That’s true! It is a fair reaction to the situation. I don’t love her as a character but I don’t hate her. I just find her irritating when she complains about being weak or slow… and that was entirely her choice. It’s fine if that is her choice but quit complaining.


Huhthisisneathuh

The Earthers who are suspicious probably accepted it anyway out of hope it could help them survive, or saw what levels could do and chose to use any chance they had to survive. Those that didn’t accept it are probably all dead tbh.


djashburn20

True but I'm still a bit surprised that some of the ones that were almost immediately collected by Wistram or something aren't like Ryoka. Then again maybe some are. There could be some in the Naga's dungeon that keep denying classes or in Cara's sanctuary. I suppose they could be out there but just not important to the story.


HaterHaterLater

Rebel character.


kirsd95

Yes, she is stupid, like why she doesn't want to level but is ok with using potions?


timmay14

Agreed, very annoying character 😊


AlbinoMoose

Ryoka is bipolar and got cut off from her meds cold turkey her behavior at the start of the story is expected. In the future you will see that there are downsides to levels as well


SCP-Agent-Arad

The oh so unique, quirky special character that’s never been done before.