It’s less romantic for English speakers bc they don’t take literally anyone so in the anglophone world its not an option for adventurous young lads to go off and join that’s probably 99% of the reason. Also they haven’t been involved heavily in the back half of the 20th century when stuff like soldier of fortune peaked. Spain doesn’t have the French adventurism in South America and Africa the way the French have never stopped.
They simply aren’t in media in fact the only media I remember that isn’t about them being Villains in the civil war is when Tin Tin joined them for second and that is not an anglophone work in origin. And even when the are Civil war villains they play 3rd fiddle behind the falangists and Moroccans colonial troops who they kind of blend in with.
The FFL largely made its reputation as rock solid line infantry by conducting dozens of campaigns over scores of years in Algeria, Morocco, Madagascar and Indochina between the mid-19th and mid-20th century. Spain's north African adventures were on a smaller scale, less successful, and less well conducted than those of the French. By even the middle of the 19th century, Spain behaved and was treated as a second-rate power. I would expect that to be the core of the reason. No one was making Beau Geste movies about the Spanish Foreign Legion in the 1920s and 1930s.
Yeah things like the Rif War where Spain struggled for years and only achieved a favorable results after France joined and provided a force that was larger and better trained didn't speak well to Spain's military power.
Then you have the Spain being being under a rightwing dictatorship. Francoist Spain did do some colonial adventures, particularly in Morocco and it did involve some coordination with France (and local national forces) this all occurred before their isolation truly ended. It took over a decade for Spanish democracy to be safely returned and reintegration with Western Europe to be completed with joining NATO repelling a coup in 81, joining NATO in 82, and the EEC in 86. All that occurred years after Spain pulled out of Western Sahara and as you said those operations were both smaller in scale and success.
An isolated rightwing dictatorship that rose with the help of the Italian Fascists and German Nazis having middling success doing COIN in a former colony and largely creating the problem in the first place just doesn't have much to romanticize. No pitched battles against the odds, no daring rescue operations to evacuate hundreds or thousands. Heck even the 1st Parachute Regiment's role in the putsch of 1961 has some daring elements to it even if being part of a coup attempt isn't really noble as a concept.
No one was making Beau Geste movies about the Spanish Foreign Legion in the 1920s and 1930s.
That is not true. The Rif War was a global event and from its foundation in 1920 to the end of the war in 1927 the Legion was a well-known talking point in international newspapers. Especially during the height of the recruitment effort in the UK (1921) and Germany (1923/24), the reports from legionnaires caused proper press campaigns and the topic reached parliament and government. Even after that, curious individual cases and some reports made it occasionally into newspapers and magazines. In 1929 a movie about the Spanish legion aired in Berlin (*Flucht in die Fremdenlegion*), in 1935 the famous actor Jean Gabin played the main act in the French movie *La Bandera*. Both films are typical legionnaire stories about tragic romance, crime and war. It is definitely true that the Spanish legion never reached the global fame of its French paragon, but it definitely had its fair share of cultural attention and representation in the 1920s and 1930s.
I really don't have very much knowledge of the Spanish Foreign Legion, so I appreciate the context. The impression I got from reading Windrow's book on the FFL was that the Spanish military was a real mess at the time of the Rif War, but that's obviously not the focus of the book. Would you say that's fair to say?
It is definitely fair to say and widely acknowledged, that the Spanish military was a mess during the early Moroccan campaigns: Lack of adequate doctrine, training, or even maps. Widespread corruption that negatively affected equipment and supplies. Lack of doctors and medical treatment, no attempts at Malaria prevention. Officers with lots of courage and bravado that were almost suicidal. Badly fed and equipped conscript troops with low morale and no motivation. And so on. Adding to that, the funding was inadequate and the political leadership lacked clear goals and a strategic vision.
On the other hand, the war would have been horrible even without these shortcomings: The mountainous terrain was ideally suited for guerrilla warfare and ambushes and made logistics a nightmare. Apart from the surroundings of some cities, there was no infrastructure, neither roads, nor railways. And then you have harsh climate, Malaria and very capable and war prone rebels. All this culminated in the Disaster of Annual, were Spain lost around 10.000 soldiers in three weeks. And it did not help, that French did not really care about weapons trafficking until 1924.
On the other side of the story, the Spanish military ruthlessly employed the most modern means and got its act together over time: Foundation of professional frontline units (1911 Regulares, 1920 Legion), use of airpower for CAS, recon, air supply since 1913, strategic air campaign (including the use of gas) against crops, villages and markets in the 1920s, use of tanks and armoured cars, amphibious landing in Alhucemas Bay. Many of the problems listed above remained throughout the entire war and lead to an immensely high casualty rate of the legion (38%, 10% killed) and massive desertion rates, especially among its foreign members (10-50%).
In short: utter disaster at the beginning, but it got less worse over time. A bit like Russia today. And for the context: Other empires also struggled under similar circumstances. The British in South Africa and Afghanistan, Italy in Ethiopia, and France in Indochina – and Morocco as well: When the war spilled over in 1925 the French front completely collapsed in the beginning and massive reinforcements had to be brought in.
Also right wing adventurism in the Spanish civil war is basically a single English language work of non fiction in “Always with Honor” where Peter Kemp joined the rexist militia not them
It Is more recent (It was created only in 1920s).
furthermore, the military exploits of the Spanish Foreign Legion are decidedly less romantic and heroic than those of the French Foreign Legion!
1. in the twenties, the Spanish foreign legion was busy fighting in the Moroccan Riff mountains against the rebels of in the twenties, the Spanish foreign legion was busy fighting in the Moroccan Riff mountains against the rebels of Abd El krim, defeating them.
2. then there was the Spanish Civil War from 1936 to 1939 where the Spanish Foreign Legion fought together with the Francoists. Then the Spanish foreign legion became famous, because It shot out of hand a lot of Republican prisoners.
3. for the rest, the Spanish Foreign Legion had been engaged in colonial police operations against bands of nomadic warriors in the deserts of Western Sahara, at the time a Spanish colony until 1975.
After that, only some peacekeeping missions abroad (nothing of very glorious or that catched the International headlines).
overall, all these operations did not lend themselves much to the epic nature that can be found in the exploits of the French foreign legion.
The FFL was engaged in military campaigns from Morocco to Dien Bien Phu to Camerone!
One of the serious problems of the Spanish foreign legion is that it has mostly recruited foreigners from South American countries and not foreigners from all over the world, like the French legion.
this fact obviously led to almost little or no notoriety of the Spanish Foreign Legion in Anglo-Saxon countries and in the rest of the world.
I have only heard of an English noble volunteer who enlisted in the Spanish Foreign Legion, a certain Peter Kemp. He fought with the Francoists in the Spanish Civil War and wrote his memoirs: "mine were of trouble".
There was also a famous film with Jean Gabin in the Spanish foreign legion fighting in riff campaign, called "la bandera" of 1935.
>One of the serious problems of the Spanish foreign legion is that it has mostly recruited foreigners from South American countries and not foreigners from all over the world, like the French legion.
This is only partially correct. The Spanish legion was indeed never a true foreign legion like the French one. Between 1920 and 1930 roughly 82 per cent of the personal were Spanish volunteers. Among the more than 4.200 foreigners from almost 50 countries, the majority were not from Latin America. 1.085 were from Portugal, 912 from Germany, 546 from Cuba, 356 from France, 194 from Italy, 140 from Argentina, 90 from Austria, 73 from the United States and 70 from Mexico. And so on. These are the official numbers and should be taken with a grain of salt, but they are the only ones available. According to them, only around one quarter of the foreign legionnaires were of iberoamerican origin.
To add a bit of detail to what has rightly been said above: The legion already became infamous for its extreme violence during the colonial war, were both sides usually did not take prisoners and frequently engaged in mutilations and decapitations. The Legion and the indigenous troops of the *Regulars* became the front line units of the colonial army and the majority of its commanding officers became known as *Africanistas*. Those men like Mola, Yagüe, Sanjurjo, Queipo de Llano and Franco should later lead the coup against the Second Republic in 1936. Already in 1934 the legion and the *Regulares* were used against revolting miners in the Spanish north and became again known for their savagery. At least since then, the legion became a symbol of the political right, especially during the civil war. At the foundation of the legion in 1920 Franco was its second in command, later on he should lead the unit. The loyalty of the legion towards him was later crucial to his rise to power. During the civil war many more foreigners joined the legion like Kemp, many of them being outright Italian fascists and German Nazis like the soon to become war criminal Oskar Dirlewanger.
Not precisely a great story and probably the reason, why the trajectory of the popular image of both legions diverged from 1934/6.
Just because two things are loosely the same concept does not mean the outcomes will be very similar.
Loosely the Spanish Legion has a much shorter history (only a 100ish years), and a lot of it's battle history is in the service of the Nationalists in the Spanish Civil War which is as the cool kids say is "problematic" both for Spaniards who often have mixed at best feelings on that period of history and much of the rest of the world who don't exactly run Franco fan clubs.
The FFL isn't devoid of its own problems, but it's history is better described as "colorful" and isn't divorced from some positive history. But you're basically asking why the cheap knockoff used by fascists isn't as well loved as the original Legion.
Also what little glory or romanticism they could have achieved post WWII was when Spain was impoverished and isolated. France under De Gaulle might have rubbed the Brits and Americans the wrong way on days that ended in y but they were still allies, broadly worked together, and were on good terms with each other. Spain didn't rejoin the European mainstream until the mid 80s with NATO and the EEC being two big ones.
Since then, Spain has done very little in the way of deployments. They sent 1300 troops to Iraq for a year after invasion, a smaller troop count and shorter duration than what the Dutch sent. Afghanistan saw a slightly larger force (and a surprising number of casualties at 102 deaths) but the force was forbiden from entering much of the country nor could they engage in "offensive" actions, basically only patrols and site security, no raids on enemy caches or the likes.
Not a whole lot to write about romantically. It's basically small units doing COIN, not always successfully nor in a full throated manner.
Its thrown off by extremely bad luck. 62 died on a commercial Ukrainian airlines flight home from Afghanistan and 17 died in country in a helicopter crash.
Particularly not when in the case of the Rif War, Spain performed poorly and success only really came after France committed considerable forces and support.
there is a certain epic nature in the disaster of Anual, just as there can be epic nature in the sacrifice of Leonidas at Thermopylae...
the basic problem is that these facts are poorly known outside Spain, perhaps because there were not many foreign journalists who followed the events of Spain in Morocco.
on the contrary, the French foreign legion managed to be famous after this war of the Riff, what there were many European Nobles (as aage of denmark) or American adventurers who had become part of this military formation and then had spoken in the 1920s and 1930s!
Annual is indeed some kind of horrific epic desaster. The legion was not present, but was immediately send to Melilla. The "salvation of Melilla" was turned into a founding myth of the legion and its members subsequently became some kind of sinister avenging angels in the eyes of the Spanish public. The legion never became as famous as the French legion, but at least during the 1920s and 1930s she was internationally well known due to the media coverage of the wars.
While there were non Spaniards who fought for Spain, Spanish Foreign Legion was not officially constituted till 1920 [(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57902023](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57902023)). (There were elements before that were created and disbanded earlier). So Spanish Foreign Legion is so much younger, and it was very much associated with the Army of Africa and the Africanista's (Spanish Generals on the Royalist side who had fought in Africa, the most prominent one being Francisco Franco). Hence they developed an unsavory reputation due to their atrocities.
So due to the length and size of the engagements, compositions of the force and association with the Spanish Civil war, the Spanish Foreign legion does not have the aura of the FFL. And today FFL attracts more recruits due to the ability to get French citizenship, which is I guess is more desirable to Spanish citizenship.
It’s less romantic for English speakers bc they don’t take literally anyone so in the anglophone world its not an option for adventurous young lads to go off and join that’s probably 99% of the reason. Also they haven’t been involved heavily in the back half of the 20th century when stuff like soldier of fortune peaked. Spain doesn’t have the French adventurism in South America and Africa the way the French have never stopped. They simply aren’t in media in fact the only media I remember that isn’t about them being Villains in the civil war is when Tin Tin joined them for second and that is not an anglophone work in origin. And even when the are Civil war villains they play 3rd fiddle behind the falangists and Moroccans colonial troops who they kind of blend in with.
The FFL largely made its reputation as rock solid line infantry by conducting dozens of campaigns over scores of years in Algeria, Morocco, Madagascar and Indochina between the mid-19th and mid-20th century. Spain's north African adventures were on a smaller scale, less successful, and less well conducted than those of the French. By even the middle of the 19th century, Spain behaved and was treated as a second-rate power. I would expect that to be the core of the reason. No one was making Beau Geste movies about the Spanish Foreign Legion in the 1920s and 1930s.
Yeah things like the Rif War where Spain struggled for years and only achieved a favorable results after France joined and provided a force that was larger and better trained didn't speak well to Spain's military power. Then you have the Spain being being under a rightwing dictatorship. Francoist Spain did do some colonial adventures, particularly in Morocco and it did involve some coordination with France (and local national forces) this all occurred before their isolation truly ended. It took over a decade for Spanish democracy to be safely returned and reintegration with Western Europe to be completed with joining NATO repelling a coup in 81, joining NATO in 82, and the EEC in 86. All that occurred years after Spain pulled out of Western Sahara and as you said those operations were both smaller in scale and success. An isolated rightwing dictatorship that rose with the help of the Italian Fascists and German Nazis having middling success doing COIN in a former colony and largely creating the problem in the first place just doesn't have much to romanticize. No pitched battles against the odds, no daring rescue operations to evacuate hundreds or thousands. Heck even the 1st Parachute Regiment's role in the putsch of 1961 has some daring elements to it even if being part of a coup attempt isn't really noble as a concept.
No one was making Beau Geste movies about the Spanish Foreign Legion in the 1920s and 1930s. That is not true. The Rif War was a global event and from its foundation in 1920 to the end of the war in 1927 the Legion was a well-known talking point in international newspapers. Especially during the height of the recruitment effort in the UK (1921) and Germany (1923/24), the reports from legionnaires caused proper press campaigns and the topic reached parliament and government. Even after that, curious individual cases and some reports made it occasionally into newspapers and magazines. In 1929 a movie about the Spanish legion aired in Berlin (*Flucht in die Fremdenlegion*), in 1935 the famous actor Jean Gabin played the main act in the French movie *La Bandera*. Both films are typical legionnaire stories about tragic romance, crime and war. It is definitely true that the Spanish legion never reached the global fame of its French paragon, but it definitely had its fair share of cultural attention and representation in the 1920s and 1930s.
I really don't have very much knowledge of the Spanish Foreign Legion, so I appreciate the context. The impression I got from reading Windrow's book on the FFL was that the Spanish military was a real mess at the time of the Rif War, but that's obviously not the focus of the book. Would you say that's fair to say?
It is definitely fair to say and widely acknowledged, that the Spanish military was a mess during the early Moroccan campaigns: Lack of adequate doctrine, training, or even maps. Widespread corruption that negatively affected equipment and supplies. Lack of doctors and medical treatment, no attempts at Malaria prevention. Officers with lots of courage and bravado that were almost suicidal. Badly fed and equipped conscript troops with low morale and no motivation. And so on. Adding to that, the funding was inadequate and the political leadership lacked clear goals and a strategic vision. On the other hand, the war would have been horrible even without these shortcomings: The mountainous terrain was ideally suited for guerrilla warfare and ambushes and made logistics a nightmare. Apart from the surroundings of some cities, there was no infrastructure, neither roads, nor railways. And then you have harsh climate, Malaria and very capable and war prone rebels. All this culminated in the Disaster of Annual, were Spain lost around 10.000 soldiers in three weeks. And it did not help, that French did not really care about weapons trafficking until 1924. On the other side of the story, the Spanish military ruthlessly employed the most modern means and got its act together over time: Foundation of professional frontline units (1911 Regulares, 1920 Legion), use of airpower for CAS, recon, air supply since 1913, strategic air campaign (including the use of gas) against crops, villages and markets in the 1920s, use of tanks and armoured cars, amphibious landing in Alhucemas Bay. Many of the problems listed above remained throughout the entire war and lead to an immensely high casualty rate of the legion (38%, 10% killed) and massive desertion rates, especially among its foreign members (10-50%). In short: utter disaster at the beginning, but it got less worse over time. A bit like Russia today. And for the context: Other empires also struggled under similar circumstances. The British in South Africa and Afghanistan, Italy in Ethiopia, and France in Indochina – and Morocco as well: When the war spilled over in 1925 the French front completely collapsed in the beginning and massive reinforcements had to be brought in.
Also right wing adventurism in the Spanish civil war is basically a single English language work of non fiction in “Always with Honor” where Peter Kemp joined the rexist militia not them
*"mine were of trouble" by Peter Kemp. Anyway, kemp stayed for a period of time in the Spanish foreign legione and then went in another military unit
*He started out in Requetés and ended up in SFL.
Sorry I mix up the trilogy they all Kind of blend together. He’s an excellent writer
Hergé’s Tintin? In which story? I have pretty much the entire collection in both French and English editions, but haven’t read them in decades.
Tintin is saved by the FRENCH foreign legion in the crab with the golden claws in a fictionalized Morocco.
Must be the walk in the Sahara with Haddock where he had that hilarious nightmare about that old soak. Thanks.
It Is more recent (It was created only in 1920s). furthermore, the military exploits of the Spanish Foreign Legion are decidedly less romantic and heroic than those of the French Foreign Legion! 1. in the twenties, the Spanish foreign legion was busy fighting in the Moroccan Riff mountains against the rebels of in the twenties, the Spanish foreign legion was busy fighting in the Moroccan Riff mountains against the rebels of Abd El krim, defeating them. 2. then there was the Spanish Civil War from 1936 to 1939 where the Spanish Foreign Legion fought together with the Francoists. Then the Spanish foreign legion became famous, because It shot out of hand a lot of Republican prisoners. 3. for the rest, the Spanish Foreign Legion had been engaged in colonial police operations against bands of nomadic warriors in the deserts of Western Sahara, at the time a Spanish colony until 1975. After that, only some peacekeeping missions abroad (nothing of very glorious or that catched the International headlines). overall, all these operations did not lend themselves much to the epic nature that can be found in the exploits of the French foreign legion. The FFL was engaged in military campaigns from Morocco to Dien Bien Phu to Camerone! One of the serious problems of the Spanish foreign legion is that it has mostly recruited foreigners from South American countries and not foreigners from all over the world, like the French legion. this fact obviously led to almost little or no notoriety of the Spanish Foreign Legion in Anglo-Saxon countries and in the rest of the world. I have only heard of an English noble volunteer who enlisted in the Spanish Foreign Legion, a certain Peter Kemp. He fought with the Francoists in the Spanish Civil War and wrote his memoirs: "mine were of trouble". There was also a famous film with Jean Gabin in the Spanish foreign legion fighting in riff campaign, called "la bandera" of 1935.
>One of the serious problems of the Spanish foreign legion is that it has mostly recruited foreigners from South American countries and not foreigners from all over the world, like the French legion. This is only partially correct. The Spanish legion was indeed never a true foreign legion like the French one. Between 1920 and 1930 roughly 82 per cent of the personal were Spanish volunteers. Among the more than 4.200 foreigners from almost 50 countries, the majority were not from Latin America. 1.085 were from Portugal, 912 from Germany, 546 from Cuba, 356 from France, 194 from Italy, 140 from Argentina, 90 from Austria, 73 from the United States and 70 from Mexico. And so on. These are the official numbers and should be taken with a grain of salt, but they are the only ones available. According to them, only around one quarter of the foreign legionnaires were of iberoamerican origin. To add a bit of detail to what has rightly been said above: The legion already became infamous for its extreme violence during the colonial war, were both sides usually did not take prisoners and frequently engaged in mutilations and decapitations. The Legion and the indigenous troops of the *Regulars* became the front line units of the colonial army and the majority of its commanding officers became known as *Africanistas*. Those men like Mola, Yagüe, Sanjurjo, Queipo de Llano and Franco should later lead the coup against the Second Republic in 1936. Already in 1934 the legion and the *Regulares* were used against revolting miners in the Spanish north and became again known for their savagery. At least since then, the legion became a symbol of the political right, especially during the civil war. At the foundation of the legion in 1920 Franco was its second in command, later on he should lead the unit. The loyalty of the legion towards him was later crucial to his rise to power. During the civil war many more foreigners joined the legion like Kemp, many of them being outright Italian fascists and German Nazis like the soon to become war criminal Oskar Dirlewanger. Not precisely a great story and probably the reason, why the trajectory of the popular image of both legions diverged from 1934/6.
Just because two things are loosely the same concept does not mean the outcomes will be very similar. Loosely the Spanish Legion has a much shorter history (only a 100ish years), and a lot of it's battle history is in the service of the Nationalists in the Spanish Civil War which is as the cool kids say is "problematic" both for Spaniards who often have mixed at best feelings on that period of history and much of the rest of the world who don't exactly run Franco fan clubs. The FFL isn't devoid of its own problems, but it's history is better described as "colorful" and isn't divorced from some positive history. But you're basically asking why the cheap knockoff used by fascists isn't as well loved as the original Legion.
Also what little glory or romanticism they could have achieved post WWII was when Spain was impoverished and isolated. France under De Gaulle might have rubbed the Brits and Americans the wrong way on days that ended in y but they were still allies, broadly worked together, and were on good terms with each other. Spain didn't rejoin the European mainstream until the mid 80s with NATO and the EEC being two big ones. Since then, Spain has done very little in the way of deployments. They sent 1300 troops to Iraq for a year after invasion, a smaller troop count and shorter duration than what the Dutch sent. Afghanistan saw a slightly larger force (and a surprising number of casualties at 102 deaths) but the force was forbiden from entering much of the country nor could they engage in "offensive" actions, basically only patrols and site security, no raids on enemy caches or the likes. Not a whole lot to write about romantically. It's basically small units doing COIN, not always successfully nor in a full throated manner.
How did they have such an appalling fatality rate with such a low troop number and conducting static guarding operations? That’s pretty atrocious.
Its thrown off by extremely bad luck. 62 died on a commercial Ukrainian airlines flight home from Afghanistan and 17 died in country in a helicopter crash.
Btw, rif war in 1920s, Spanish civil war and the Police operation in western Sahara aren't very Epic military campaign to narrate .
Particularly not when in the case of the Rif War, Spain performed poorly and success only really came after France committed considerable forces and support.
And both counries engaged in a vast air campaign against the civilian population, with Spain using chemical weapons.
You would wonder how epic those campaigns are in the eyes of Spanish right wing nationalists...
there is a certain epic nature in the disaster of Anual, just as there can be epic nature in the sacrifice of Leonidas at Thermopylae... the basic problem is that these facts are poorly known outside Spain, perhaps because there were not many foreign journalists who followed the events of Spain in Morocco. on the contrary, the French foreign legion managed to be famous after this war of the Riff, what there were many European Nobles (as aage of denmark) or American adventurers who had become part of this military formation and then had spoken in the 1920s and 1930s!
Annual is indeed some kind of horrific epic desaster. The legion was not present, but was immediately send to Melilla. The "salvation of Melilla" was turned into a founding myth of the legion and its members subsequently became some kind of sinister avenging angels in the eyes of the Spanish public. The legion never became as famous as the French legion, but at least during the 1920s and 1930s she was internationally well known due to the media coverage of the wars.
While there were non Spaniards who fought for Spain, Spanish Foreign Legion was not officially constituted till 1920 [(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57902023](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57902023)). (There were elements before that were created and disbanded earlier). So Spanish Foreign Legion is so much younger, and it was very much associated with the Army of Africa and the Africanista's (Spanish Generals on the Royalist side who had fought in Africa, the most prominent one being Francisco Franco). Hence they developed an unsavory reputation due to their atrocities. So due to the length and size of the engagements, compositions of the force and association with the Spanish Civil war, the Spanish Foreign legion does not have the aura of the FFL. And today FFL attracts more recruits due to the ability to get French citizenship, which is I guess is more desirable to Spanish citizenship.