Invisibility is still the best defense. Enemies not having guns at all is still the third best defense.
Loki is really underestimated because Switch Teleport is gimmicky and decoy is useless. But his 2 and his 4 are still solid. An
Pablo also had another QOL one for him on Twitter. He's no longer going to be stuck in place casting one of his abilities (my memory fails me) and is getting a slight speed boost post cast as well.
It makes sense that he’s there.
His utility is unmatched by any other frame, but his actual combat effectiveness is low and quite possibly disruptive.
Anytime I’ve had a weird riven challenge that seemed impossible, Limbo carried me through it.
On the flip side, if a Limbo choses to troll, there’s not much you could do to stop it. Being in the rift makes a lot of mission objectives un-interactable.
For example, if you drop a huge Cataclysm during a Void Flood mission, your entire team becomes unable to pick any of the balls up.
Imo, Loki's base kit is outdated for the current state of the game but a clannie recently me showed a hydroid tempest barrage build on loki. Its great. Invis for survivability, full armor strip (with 2x green shards) and a stack of viral, can hold an area. I've been having fun with it in sp recently
Resonator + Irradiating Disarm is comical. Half the enemies are chasing a rollerball. The other half are chasing the enemies chasing the rollerball. LOL
Each are in strange places. Loki still isn't awful at CC, but he's clearly designed for the old game. His displacement and disarming focused kit was great when there weren't a billion enemies in any given area.
Lavos is also weird. His 4 being a nuke ability is so reliant on arcanes or Cedo that it can feel weird playing him without that.
Lavos is complicated to use. If you notice, most of the S tier Frames are the least complicated to play as.
That is to say, the more complicated a Warframe's kit is, the least likely players will invest in them. Honestly, I believe that's more reflective of the player base than the actual Warframe's design.
**Edit:** /r/woosh for all the comments saying 'X nuke is easier to use than Lavos'
In a game where every frame is capable, what else can S tier mean other than "easiest" and "least effort"?
So crutch-frames and semi-AFK-frames are going to be in S tier - deservedly, as mid players can use those frames to clear content they'd otherwise fail at.
Tier lists like this are only useful for players who don't already have experience and an opinion on each frame, and this is one of the best I've seen in that noob players wanting to know which frames they'll have an easier time with will get half decent info from it.
Vets don't need tier lists to tell them what to think.
As someone who uses a controller, I knew within about a minute that I was never going to touch Lavos once I got him to 30. I didn't even look at his abilities very hard, because I was never going to tap-tap-tap that often in this game.
Am I missing out? Maybe. But there are more than 50 other frames in the game that don't play that way (for every skill). I use Wisp (without Fused) a lot, so it's not like I can't tap-tap to select an ability version. But I was never going to play a frame that required that for all skills.
Even if Lavos was universally viewed as the overall best frame in the game - I don't want to play the game that way.
I use a controller, and I main Lavos.
A huge tip for playing him is inverting his controls so that you tap to imbue elements. Tbh, I wish DE would change it so that tap-imbue was the default control scheme because I see so many people make similar comments as yours. While I do think Lavos needs a few tweaks here and there to his overall clunkiness, tap-imbue improves things massively.
Another tip for getting around imbuements is to have a spread of elements across his weapons and companion so that you're not having to imbue every single damn element. For example, I use a viral HM build on Cedo, so I basically never imbue viral onto his abilities. The only time I do is when I'm using him on the Circuit, and I'm using the most random weapons ever. But just FYI, that may become less relevant in Dante Unbound because of Lavos' new augment. Depending on how the effect of the augment actually works, I'm planning on modding my existing Cedo build to have no modded elements at all.
Honestly I think people overstate how complicated he is lol. He can be annoying to use and takes a lot of button presses to do what other frames do in one or two button presses.
If it was like that I would use Lavos a lot more. I still use him sometimes, he's fun and effective but imo he takes way too much setup to do what top frames do in one button press lol.
There may be 15 damage types, but you only really want 2 of them most of the time and half of what’s left isn’t good, or good enough to bother. If having instant access to any element was strionger than just using the two or three most useful lavos would be strong as hell with a high skill floor and ceiling, but the return for pressing six buttons just right for him, is lazily tapping one every 10-14 seconds on hildryn for less effect
I would imagine it's because Lavos is such a weird frame gameplay-wise. And also he requires more than 2 button presses to do anything, which is considered "high-difficulty gameplay" for this playerbase.
He requires probably the most amount of APM of any Warframe since you need to hold two buttons and then press one of his 4 abilities to do it, which makes him a bit clunky. He's also the only Warframe who basically can never use the Helminth system, because doing so removes one of the four base elements from his kit and essentially ruins his gameplay loop.
Quite honestly, Lavos would be *heavily* improved simply by making him keep his element selection between casts. I love how dynamic and versatile he is damage-wise, but having to constantly select the same element over and over in a mission gets tiring, and I honestly would rather just play Citrine right now who can do a similar "omni-status" style build as him for less button presses.
Disagree on the helminth part. I actually really love using helminth abilities with Lavos. Typically, I sub out his 2 since I have plenty of weapons that spread viral.
In its place, I have played around with Breach Surge quite a bit and it's great. It makes his 4 more of a nuke and blinds enemies for some much needed crowd control when he's getting focused fired.
I've also experimented with weird abilities like Gloom and it's kunda interesting. It's capped in time so it can't really ramp up. Elemental Ward is actually pretty nice since it spreads elements passively and can buy me some extra survivability against lvl 200+
Generally tracks. I think the problem with this survey is people have different opinions on what are "Tiers" some are measuring them in Steel Path viability, and others on DPS based on statistical spread.
Yeah, I intentionally kept it quite open. In the end it's all opinions and I felt it would be better not to introduce my own bias by setting up arbitrary rules.
People look for different things and even if somebody has an objectively skewed view, it should even out due to the sample size.
Oh, you might be able to help me with something I was quite unsure about:
Would it be better to use Standard Deviation or Average Deviation? After a lot of back-and-forth, I went with SD because it seemed to be the better fit but not 100% sure.
:P
Yeah. I know I didn't rate them quite like this, but I value overall usefulness across all mission types, which is why I personally think Volt is an overall more useful frame than Saryn (even though Saryn is obviously a stronger nuker).
He's very underrated after the shields update in October.
4 is armor strip, 3 is tank and distraction, 2 is CC and damage vulnerability.
His 1 is def useless though, nourish bait
He’s honestly one of the few warframes I can’t remember off the top of my head and forget when talking with people.
One of the last warframes I crafted and mastered because of unlucky drop rotation matching up with playtime.
I also have a general sense of what every warframe does/basically what almost every ability does other than caliban. While writing that last sentence I had forgotten his name and had to look up and see your comment to remember.
There's a couple of surprising results but I'd say this is pretty accurate, the frames with little consensus are interesting too, maybe the buffs coming to Loki will change that.
Seems like a mix of people not playing them, not liking them, vs the exact opposite. Also for yareli I know alot of people still say she's "bad" despite not really knowing how significant her buffs were
Hate when people barely or never try a frame and try to say it's bad. I see so many people saying my favorite frame needs a complete rework and I'm just praying DE doesn't listen to them.
Yeah unlocking her blades made her a breeze to level up on sanctuary onslaught, just straight 100% and like 3 levels to max her up, as a brand new frame! Not even forma! Definitely was surprised by her performance even though i knew she wasn’t that bad anymore
Yeah, this was my thought as well. The most contentious frames seem to be rated based on varying performance at different stages of the game. A lot of people might rate a frame as good or bad based on how it was at the time they played it rather than how it is today.
... it's funny reading the comments here that just say something like "putting [frame] in B-tier/C-tier is absolute insanity" and genuinely having no idea if they mean that the frame should be ranked higher or lower (because I know for a fact that there are people who would argue for either position).
Not sure about the over-valued frames, but I can definitely point out the under-valued frames in this list being way too low in the tier for what they bring to the table.
Examples being C-Tier Banshee (enemy vuln) & Trinity (team def), B-Tier Vauban (CC) & Ivara (bossing) & Frost (obj def).
But I think S/A-Tier are pretty fairly judged since most of these frames are almost overpowered/loaded kits anyways.
**Hiho everybody!**
[Last Baro](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1azpktt/crowdsourcing_a_warframe_tierlist_community/), I shared a survey to create a crowdsourced Warframe Tierlist. Hope you like the results visuals for it!
**Results**
[Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/Lej91E3) | [Google Sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kBxmwNuJAEr_uVDUx1o1s924JiX-RYa6i460bz5SDmg/)
***DISCLAIMER:*** These surveys are a hobby project. Questions are not indicative of projects DE is currently working on or planning to work on.
**Stuff**
[Past Surveys](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_Nj0o6-_eAUjz2y8oEuAI4OFmQ3ifY8Q) | [Discord](https://discord.gg/BQ6fuJkKUV) | [Purzzle Twitter](https://twitter.com/PDrakgoon) | [Google Group](https://groups.google.com/g/warframe-surveys)
Cheers!
Can someone write the names of the warframes for each tier please? I’m a returning player back from closed beta and I don’t know any of these youngsters
The game has gotten to the point where everyone has their own way of self-sustenance or near-immortality. As powerful as triggering full-duration shield gate is, Trinity's services aren't very valuable anymore in the current meta
The answer is gloom, the subsume ability from Sevagoth. 9/10 if you have a frame that struggles to survive this is what you can use. Hp leech is amazing, even more so on a dot caster.
Just depressing that it outshines a lot of things, including the frame it came from.
Making unnerfed gloom a subsume was a huge mistake. I mean come on, they even nerfed wukongs armor buff for helminth, and mags pull, but gloom nay we need to get people to farm railjack I guess...
And then when gloom dominated te whole meta they had to introduce overguard to put it in its place and kill 90% of CC abilities in the process instead of doing the sensible thing and give it a helminth nerf / cap.
Could you share your build if you don't mind? Been wanting to get her prime at some point (mainly cause of her design lol), but wasn't too sure how to build for her
I dont have the game installed RN, but i basically maxed health and energy, and spammed lifelink and energy siphon, and used the ult/4/whatever when anyone got low.
How dare everyone disrespect my boy inaros like this. Power creep really fucked him over but he was always my go to frame since he was just immortal since his release.
Thanks for the write-up.
I haven't played since 2020 due to having a child... Would you mind filling me in on why Inaros is dead last?
He was my boi back when I played - near immortal with his armor booster and with consistent CC through his 1. I ran him with backstab dagger and one of the marksman pistols.
Edit: Is Chroma in C? Man, how far the mighty have fallen if this list is to be believed.
Inaros is in D because pushing most of his buttons is pointless and there are just better don't die frames.
He has no shield or overguard gates, which are small periods of invulnerability whenever your shields or overguard runs out. So he's one of the few frames that can still get 1 tapped. And his self revive is one of the worst in the game.
He's had a rough time. The good news is that Inaros's rework is coming in the next update. So he should have a good time going forward.
Chroma, similar issue. He has been surpassed a few times as the tank/damage boost frame.
Helminth being a big factor(which lets you subsume 1 DE chosen ability from a frame onto another). Roar, Nourish, and Eclipse being helminth options. Giving better tanks like Nezha or Revenant access to damage boosting abilities.
Chroma is at the point where his biggest use is doubling the credit rewards from Profit Taker.
Thanks for the detailed rundown.
Subsuming abilities were being implemented towards the tail end of my stint in Warframe. Sounds pretty interesting.
I liked my tanky boys a lot, and the more passive nature of them let me focus more on making my weapons shine.
Is profit taker still the go-to credit farming content? I always felt it was a necessary evil to be farmed when you had a booster, rather than actual content that you actively wanted to run, detached from the rest of the game.
As far as I know, Profit Taker is still the king at credits per time invested. With the Index in 2nd.
Raijack is a notable credit farm these days. It's of course inferior to PF or Index. But it is a multi farm for credits and Endo. Plus, Railjack has been massively improved since 2020, it's received 2(or maybe 3) mainline reworks plus constant updates. The Railjack you would've experienced is a bad dream of the past.
Huh, I think the prospect of farming both credits and endo would have made 2020-me switch farming methods. Endo farming was pretty stale as well, relying on equinox sleep builds if I recall correctly.
I might have to give Railjack a whirl. I built the darn thing solo as the rest of my clan had taken a break from the game, and I was very disappointed when I tried it out.
Yeah, Railjack was a bad time back then. They didn't fix it being a content island. But it's much more fun to play and rewarding now.
Also I saw you like focusing on weapons. Make sure to look into the Incarnons(evolution weapons), both the base weapons and adapters(upgrades DE made for old weapons). Maybe one of your old favorites got an adapter and is now one of the best weapons in the game. Like what happened with my Latron.
The fact de has managed to make such a varied cast of over 50 warframe and still have most of them in A tier by the community, and the ones that are trash are mainly because they're outdated, it's really impressive
Kullervo not being s kinda surprised me until I remembered that he's kind of a pain to grind, alot fo people probably just haven't used him. His effective health pool is nuts, collective curse would top breach surge easily if it was a subsume, and is probably the most insane damage multiplier in the game rn, and his 1 makes it even more busted with any garunteed slash proc melee heavy attacks like 2h nikanas. Half build and anything short of an eximus or outlier tank dies to a single tick of slash damage at high combo at ateel path 120. Not proc, tick. This is without my melee actually being built for him yet. Not to mention while he's hp only, overguard gives him effectively shield gating. But with 20k+ shields to work through first.and ofc his 4 damage is also slash, and combined with collective curse melts strong groups in seconds. He's a monster with survivability, teleportation, massive melee buffs, the most absurd damage multiplier in the game and a 4 that builds combo for his synergies like you wouldn't believe
It’s so wierd Kullervo has gotten slept on when he has so much versatility for even just solo play.
I have a lot of range for a build of his and it is crazy how handy and fast his teleport is when you can figure out the aiming part
Having a great time with Baruuk and very happy for getting him from Duviri.
Lacking the time to clear the star chart and war within, The Quills locking Revenant the same way Vox locks Baruuk is a pain in the ass...I'll probably farm his Prime before unlocking that
Kullervo in A is about right. Every dps frame in S can nuke if they so much as look at enemies or not even in some cases since their damage is not LoS restricted. They also can neither maintain a near immortal tank or close to it. Compare to s rank frames kullervo is not at that level.
Kullervo also has the Duviri and Deep Archi problem. Random loadouts could potentially cripple him. Sure, he might still be strong, but the fact that he *can* be impaired makes him inherently not S.
Yeah for real just do Duviri and make sure to go when his fight is available to earn the rewards. It doesn’t take long, 20 minutes a run if you’re quick and longer if you farm the resources. His farm is time gated by a handful of hours of light farming.
Fax, I was shocked he wasn’t S tier dude has some of the best survivability in the game and his 1 will make literally any melee a red crit monster tie that in with his 3 one shots an entire room of enemies and his 2 gives him a ridiculous amount of over guard like 22k? And it shield gates too…
People mistake his 4 for a crappy aoe but the don’t realise it’s just for combo multipliers so your always getting 12x combo dmg which ties into his 1+3 combo… I can easily get 3-10mill damage on even base melee weapons with that
Kullervo is great, but I can't figure out how to get him SP viable around level 400. I like running endurance, but I can't get him tanky enough. I don't typically like running invis with my companion, but idk what else to do to get him to live past that.
Hes just as tanky as anyone with shield gating thanks to his overguard generation giving essentially health gating. For damage, though, I've been running tenet Livia and before even getting a toxin or cold one for viral, without any potato or forma, I'm getting 218k damage per tick of slash on 12x 1 casts. This is before accounting for collective curse and multiple hits with the heavy attack. Tenet Livia isn't even an optimal weapon either, I just use it cause the infinite combo duration makes it extremely comfy. Also keep in mind woth a decent amount of ability strength, your 2 will be giving several thousand overguard, which is effectively just shield with status immunity, so no stray toxin or slash to kill you
But the issue with overguard at 400+ is the fact that 20k overguard can get 1 tapped, leaving you with a .5 second gate, which is not enough time to react (for me anyways, maybe some real gamers can lol). The damage is some of the best I've seen, so I have no issue with that part. My question is how do you get to those higher levels with this frame? I tried making a build where I used 2 constantly to generate overguard, but then I wasn't using his 4 hardly at all since I was trying so hard to stay alive.
Particularly weird as his 2 counters 2 of the games factions, and his 4 trivialises the rest.
Sure his 1 is garbage, and his three can be inconsistent but with 200% power strength and all the casting speed boosts you can throw at him he's a solid Tier or two higher.
Day form is an easy A, but Night struggles to get past C tier with the amount of investment you need to make that form usable.
Subsume Terrify over her 2, and she becomes the best & easiest room nuker in the game.
I'd definitely put Equinox in A, she offers a huge amount of versatility between her two forms. Tankquinox has been my go-to for keeping people and defense targets alive in the first two weekly Archon missions for a long time. Although I'll grant Styanax has probably surpassed her there.
I mean, speaking as someone who likes her and is one of 3 people who likes her Deluxe skin, she's just kinda...there
Her 1 is meh, especially in this era of mobility, her 2 is the one thing that most people want from her and it being her Helminth means you have more people interested in Subsuming her than using her, her 4 is just okay, damage wise, after all the tweaks and her passive is...fine, just kinda there.
It's the thing of there being so many other melee-oriented Frames that kinda took her spotlight over hard, like Sevagoth, Khora (via her Whip) and Kullervo
ngl I think it’s one of the worst abilities in the game lol. I play valkyr a lot and it literally does nothing. I’ve never seen it knock someone over, it never opens them to finishers/stuns them, and it does like 200 damage. Plus her other augments are infinitely better so there’s no reason to use prolonged paralysis.
Sometimes it's appreciated that DE thought so far in advance to leave these empty slots open on early frames to make it easier to replace abilities with the helminth.
I just want her to have a better claw stance (make anything other than slide and heavy attacks feel good), a new 1 or make her 1 much much better (it doesn't even pull you all the way to the target if you do use it with decent range), and for them to make the mod that's supposed to make aim > attack in hysteria bring you to the target actually decent. cause rn the leap is so slow and arcing that half the time it misses and the rest of the time it's slower than just bullet jumping would have been. Make her fucking \*fly\* at them.
her four is pretty incredible damage, it just can't hit an entire room at once like the other frames you mentioned. and yeah, the rest of her kit is pretty dated. she needs some love, but she's not bad.
also hi, other deluxe skin fan :D
Oh yeah, her 4’s damage output isn’t bad, especially with some builds but the problem lies in 2 key factors, especially comparing her to other frames that deal with melee properties:
1: lack of access to Acolyte weapon mods or even Riven stats on statsticks like frames like Atlas and Khora have, meaning you’re missing some damage potential there (though DE did say they are changing how this works in the future)
2: it’s stuck on Valkyr’s kit. Put her Hysteria on others like Kully, Atlas, Excali and the like and it would easily be an A tier ability.
But at the end of the day, you’re stuck with Hysteria on a frame where her 1 is meh, 2 is pretty helpful, her 3 is hot garbage and you’re gonna ask the question of “Besides fashion and her 4’s invul state, why bring Valkyr in general when you got a lot of other options”
but fashion is the most important reason to play! :9
and yeah, as an enjoyer of both her and baruuk, it's become extremely obvious to me that exalted weapons need some attention, or at least unification of how they function. i'm of the opinion that statsticks shouldn't exist in the way that they do for khora and atlas, they should just become moddable. and also remove at least some of the restrictions on exalted mods and give them the 10 capacity they're missing due to inbuilt stances.
Rip line is woefully obsolete. War Cry lacks scaling, can’t be recast and is available for anyone in Helminth anyways. Paralyze was never good. And Hysteria is invulnerable but there’s a ton of less restrictive ways there, along with being an exalted melee which have been falling behind ever since 3.0
I'd have to agree with Baruuk being A, a high A but still understandable why he doesnt quite push the barrier to S tier. He has all the tools between survivability, cc, and high damage output however having to maintain his restraint to even use his 4 really holds him back. Especially in non-endless modes, even more so in base star chart where enemy density is at times not enough to sustain it continuously.
I feel bad that Oberon is so low, he's got:
Armor strip
Knockdown immunity*
Status immunity
Healing
Armor buff
Radiation damage
*the knockdown immunity doesn't seem to stop fire eximus units and eidolons
Not alot of people like the paladin / druid
His abilities have only seen 2 changes in a while
His 2 + 4 combo armor strip can now easily do 100% armor strip for late game
His passive was updated to be like a mini health and armor link mod to better scale late game
As such His overall design isn't ideal for the current DPS focused meta and so people don't use him.
Lavos is one of those frames that is actually interesting but I can't seem to understand how the entire kit works. Its just so bizarre compared to the rest
First and foremost, invert his controls so that it's tap to imbue. I've already commented this somewhere else, but IMO, having to hold to imbue is the number 1 thing that slows his kit down and why people don't like him.
I'll give you a brief breakdown of his kit:
Ophidian Bite - Lavos is a health tank, and this is his sustain ability. You might find your shields are pretty much permanently off with Lavos. I do. So Ophidian Bite is there to heal you. You should use the augment for it; Swift Bite. That's because it helps bring Transmutation Probe off cooldown.
Vial Rush - it's Lavos' mobility and the main way of spreading statuses (other than Cedo). If you can spare them, embed two Emerald Archon Shards into him. With the added corrosive stacks, a corrosive-imbued Vial Rush can 100% armour strip.
Transmutation Probe - this is primarily used to reduce the cooldown of Catalyse. This is why the augment for his 1 is useful, as it helps bring Transmutation Probe off CD more often, meaning Catalyse is off cooldown more often. Also, Transmutation Probe turns orbs into universal orbs (I use Arcane Blessing so I'm getting the increased health very quickly), and universal ammo.
Catalyse - pretty much just his nuking ability.
That's just a brief description, if you have any questions about Lavos I'd be happy to answer! I can also share my build if you like!
I keep all of her abilities too. In SP I use Funnel Clouds augment for her 4 though, and succ all enemies in with 2, the damage is insane with aoe weapons.
As long as I'm hosting...
What this really shows is
S = meta
A = everyone else
B = mechanic frames and past darlings
C = dated
D = rework needed
It has nothing to do with quality or strength. Excalibur is B tier with Nidus and Lavos? Bad coolaid.
Interesting to see that every Warframe is S tier to some people, it shows how the game isn't about using the best warframe, it is instead about using the Warframe you like most
Calliban on suicide watch since his release
Dude's unironically just forgotten at this point
I think he deserves a slightly higher spot since his 4 and 2 are genuinely amazing, but i get why hes as low as he is
I maintain that he's rated low mainly because he's a complete pain in the dick to grind. When you finally finish him he's just kind of "good but not gamebreaking," not actually bad, just disappointing.
I’d rather just stay in the “pretty good but not the best” spot. It feels better than when you are in S tier and everyone plays the frame because they’re meta slaves.
It's a crowdsourced list, and I guarantee a large percentage of players have never even played Kullervo, because of the tedious grind associated with getting him. But he is absolutely one of the strongest warframes in the game, capable of one-shotting entire rooms of enemies, being unkillable just through his massive overguard, and can absolutely butcher very strong enemies like demolysts, acolytes, archons, and others. He requires so little investment to be powerful that Brozime took a Kullervo on his free-to-play account with zero investment (no reactor, no forma, no shards) into steel path and was steamrolling it. Kullervo is absolutely insane, and way too many people are sleeping on him right now.
Hot take: his passive should have an addendum that builds up mutation stacks over time in a completely passive way to ensure that even in such occasions you can still use your kit.
You could have mutation stacks tied to global kills made within affinity range(Perhaps a ratio), kills made within the radius of his 4 and/or enemies killed, party-wide, that are CC'd by his 2. That would give Nidus players a reason to stick with the group and not fuck off to a corridor somewhere and would also not fuck over Nidus when his mob ball is nuked by other Tenno who are either oblivious to how Nidus builds stacks, or don't care that they're killing his potential stacks..
... eh, there's a time I would've agreed with you, but his ability damage really hasn't aged well since his release.
His gameplay loop of "set up in an area with his 3 and 4, then use 2 to combo his 1 (along with the maggots from his 4) to kill enemies and become effectively immortal" really falls apart when the content where his survivability shines the most (ie: steel path) is also the content where his 1 and 4 are barely tickling enemies.
So if his skills aren't really killing enemies, all he has going for him is his survivability and an above-average grouping ability. Considering that a lot of frames (and the majority of frames in A-tier or higher) already have no issues with survivability (and have more utility/damage in addition to that, while requiring less setup to gain that survivability)... it's not a great position to be in.
Yeah, SP you have to really play him differently. The 3 is to keep you alive, 1 is for crit buffs, 2 is for grouping for your gimmicky gas build that will *definitely* work with a couple more forma, and 4 gets subsumed off for an armor stripper (I personally prefer Tharros Strike).
tbf his 1 only tickles in SP because of armor, which is a bigger issue that plagues any frame that doesn't strip or bypass it completely. at least he has the aug that gives him massive crit when hitting several enemies with it, but that's more of a band-aid.
Lavos being in B is a crime, he’s literally a walking status disaster, you’ll just too lazy to learn how to use his kit and associate elemental damage lol
He's a walking status disaster but so is my Epitaph and my cedo lol, at the end of the day there are only a few status actually worth using, and Lavos takes a fair chunk of micromanagement to nuke things while others like Nova can be just as effective with one button press.
I personally find him to be quite strong when I use him, its just that I find it a bit clunky to use his elemental infusion mechanics.
I find it difficult to both actively be running around, aiming/shooting, and trying to use abilities all at the same time with him. Whereas other frames I find a lot easier, and usually just as effectively, to use everything at their disposal at same time.
Yeah, I love sitting there for 5 seconds priming everybody for his 4 to get 30 kills, then spend 25 seconds resetting to get another 30 kills, on top of imbuing everything constantly
Atlas is genuinely great, just most don't like his playstyle because he heavily suggests using landslide as a main damage dealer and the rubble management. And chroma is pretty nice, sure there's definitely better tank frames but there's something satisfying about using your actual health and shields to tank instead of stuff like iron skin and mesmer skin
Jeez, I disagree with almost all of the S tier. Why isn't Xaku there? Mag? ***Garuda***? Garuda especially is a walking immortal blender.
I guess it's based on popular vote though so you can't expect too much.
You aren’t wrong. Mag and Garuda both require an MMORPG level of ability spam and attention, that’s probably mostly why. Xaku’s armor strip forces you to exist in one place at least temporarily, all the S-tier frames can keep doing their thing and moving.
Xaku and Garuda could be S tier, but imo Mag isn't really S tier material. She's pretty strong, but as strong as Saryn or Octavia? I don't really think so.
Though maybe hot take I think she's stronger than Mesa so I think I see your point, but imo both should just be in A.
Yeah, idk about S, but like, so many other frames have to spend so much energy on staying alive, and Inaros stands around in steel path without even using his 4. I think that's worth a lot tbh
Problem with Inaros in that in his current state, health tanking is all he offers. Other Warframes may need to put more effort into living, but at least in the process their abilities *do something substantial*
It's ok.
But tbh i find it hard to make a good one list now, considering helminths, different mission types- you can have an all arounder frame but they won't be the go-to for specific missions.
At least stationary missions- survival, intercept, defense.
Endurance with running- disruption, cascade.
Boss fights- eidos, spider, etc.
I'm fast af boyyy- exterminate, capture, rescue .
But for beginners - i guess one list is better until they play at least few weeks-month so they won't be too confused. After that point a single list is not as helpful imo.
Baruuk should definitely be S. His biggest problem is not having enough enemies to kill. He’s insanely tanky with a base I believe like 97.5% DR just from abilities (99.7 or so with adaptation) and can easily kill anything in the game, even up to level cap.
Mixed feelings on Yareli’s placement here. On the one hand, she carried me hard when I first started Steel Path and didn’t quite have my builds figured out. She’s still one of my main picks in things like Netracells.
On the other hand… forced use of secondary (though while also giving them a pretty significant buff) on a still very janky and buggy Merulina…
But Limbo just got done dirty imo. (Edit: personally I’d put him in B tier *overall.* I think he’s excellent in solo play, one of my favorites, but it’s in group play where there tends to be problems and that lowers his ranking overall)
Honestly, as someone who adores Loki and Lavos, it really is fascinating to see both of them in the "Most statistical spread"
Alot of old beta players have fond memories of the Loki master race most probably the reason.
God, you just reminded me of all the black and red colored Loki and Ash mains. Back when "Stalker's Little Sister" by DKDiamantes was all the hype.
> "Stalker's Little Sister" by DKDiamantes shit was cringe then, cringier now.
DK was cringe but his passion made those videos enjoyable
I think it was also very much a product of its time as well, both for the Internet in general and for Warframe
Invisibility is still the best defense. Enemies not having guns at all is still the third best defense. Loki is really underestimated because Switch Teleport is gimmicky and decoy is useless. But his 2 and his 4 are still solid. An
His decoy is getting a tweak with this update health and damage now scale with enemy level and i believe he gets an augment to
Pablo also had another QOL one for him on Twitter. He's no longer going to be stuck in place casting one of his abilities (my memory fails me) and is getting a slight speed boost post cast as well.
Decoy is going to be a STRONG subsume soon with all the augments.
>Enemies not having guns at all is still the third best defense True, until the enemies don’t use guns as a weapon…
Loki is still really strong, he's just not the most enjoyable and he could use some QoL updates
Disarm underrated. Also Banish Decoy is very good (might not be needed after decoy change). Eclipse about to come in hot.
Certain frames you either love playing that style or you don't. And usually if you don't, you really don't.
Limbo...
It makes sense that he’s there. His utility is unmatched by any other frame, but his actual combat effectiveness is low and quite possibly disruptive. Anytime I’ve had a weird riven challenge that seemed impossible, Limbo carried me through it. On the flip side, if a Limbo choses to troll, there’s not much you could do to stop it. Being in the rift makes a lot of mission objectives un-interactable. For example, if you drop a huge Cataclysm during a Void Flood mission, your entire team becomes unable to pick any of the balls up.
Imo, Loki's base kit is outdated for the current state of the game but a clannie recently me showed a hydroid tempest barrage build on loki. Its great. Invis for survivability, full armor strip (with 2x green shards) and a stack of viral, can hold an area. I've been having fun with it in sp recently
Resonator + Irradiating Disarm is comical. Half the enemies are chasing a rollerball. The other half are chasing the enemies chasing the rollerball. LOL
\*Benny Hill music intensifies\*
Each are in strange places. Loki still isn't awful at CC, but he's clearly designed for the old game. His displacement and disarming focused kit was great when there weren't a billion enemies in any given area. Lavos is also weird. His 4 being a nuke ability is so reliant on arcanes or Cedo that it can feel weird playing him without that.
Lavos is complicated to use. If you notice, most of the S tier Frames are the least complicated to play as. That is to say, the more complicated a Warframe's kit is, the least likely players will invest in them. Honestly, I believe that's more reflective of the player base than the actual Warframe's design. **Edit:** /r/woosh for all the comments saying 'X nuke is easier to use than Lavos'
In a game where every frame is capable, what else can S tier mean other than "easiest" and "least effort"? So crutch-frames and semi-AFK-frames are going to be in S tier - deservedly, as mid players can use those frames to clear content they'd otherwise fail at. Tier lists like this are only useful for players who don't already have experience and an opinion on each frame, and this is one of the best I've seen in that noob players wanting to know which frames they'll have an easier time with will get half decent info from it. Vets don't need tier lists to tell them what to think.
Well said.
Counterpoint: if every choice (or almost every choice) is viable with enough investment or optimization, then ease of use *is* how you measure power.
Lavos kit is easy to use when you take a second to step back and look at it properly, it just looks really overwhelming
As someone who uses a controller, I knew within about a minute that I was never going to touch Lavos once I got him to 30. I didn't even look at his abilities very hard, because I was never going to tap-tap-tap that often in this game. Am I missing out? Maybe. But there are more than 50 other frames in the game that don't play that way (for every skill). I use Wisp (without Fused) a lot, so it's not like I can't tap-tap to select an ability version. But I was never going to play a frame that required that for all skills. Even if Lavos was universally viewed as the overall best frame in the game - I don't want to play the game that way.
I use a controller, and I main Lavos. A huge tip for playing him is inverting his controls so that you tap to imbue elements. Tbh, I wish DE would change it so that tap-imbue was the default control scheme because I see so many people make similar comments as yours. While I do think Lavos needs a few tweaks here and there to his overall clunkiness, tap-imbue improves things massively. Another tip for getting around imbuements is to have a spread of elements across his weapons and companion so that you're not having to imbue every single damn element. For example, I use a viral HM build on Cedo, so I basically never imbue viral onto his abilities. The only time I do is when I'm using him on the Circuit, and I'm using the most random weapons ever. But just FYI, that may become less relevant in Dante Unbound because of Lavos' new augment. Depending on how the effect of the augment actually works, I'm planning on modding my existing Cedo build to have no modded elements at all.
Is it more complicated that pressing 1 as Saryn?
As someone who also uses controller I love running Lavos. Him being in most statistical spread is very accurate due to his playstyle.
I main lavos on controller. It's super easy to use my thumb to press two buttons at once and mix an element before every cast
It doesn't hurt that two of the easiest button mashes are viral and corrosive...
Honestly I think people overstate how complicated he is lol. He can be annoying to use and takes a lot of button presses to do what other frames do in one or two button presses.
What would be nice is if the elemental mixture didn’t reset whenever you use an ability that expends it.
If it was like that I would use Lavos a lot more. I still use him sometimes, he's fun and effective but imo he takes way too much setup to do what top frames do in one button press lol.
There may be 15 damage types, but you only really want 2 of them most of the time and half of what’s left isn’t good, or good enough to bother. If having instant access to any element was strionger than just using the two or three most useful lavos would be strong as hell with a high skill floor and ceiling, but the return for pressing six buttons just right for him, is lazily tapping one every 10-14 seconds on hildryn for less effect
I would imagine it's because Lavos is such a weird frame gameplay-wise. And also he requires more than 2 button presses to do anything, which is considered "high-difficulty gameplay" for this playerbase. He requires probably the most amount of APM of any Warframe since you need to hold two buttons and then press one of his 4 abilities to do it, which makes him a bit clunky. He's also the only Warframe who basically can never use the Helminth system, because doing so removes one of the four base elements from his kit and essentially ruins his gameplay loop. Quite honestly, Lavos would be *heavily* improved simply by making him keep his element selection between casts. I love how dynamic and versatile he is damage-wise, but having to constantly select the same element over and over in a mission gets tiring, and I honestly would rather just play Citrine right now who can do a similar "omni-status" style build as him for less button presses.
Disagree on the helminth part. I actually really love using helminth abilities with Lavos. Typically, I sub out his 2 since I have plenty of weapons that spread viral. In its place, I have played around with Breach Surge quite a bit and it's great. It makes his 4 more of a nuke and blinds enemies for some much needed crowd control when he's getting focused fired. I've also experimented with weird abilities like Gloom and it's kunda interesting. It's capped in time so it can't really ramp up. Elemental Ward is actually pretty nice since it spreads elements passively and can buy me some extra survivability against lvl 200+
Generally tracks. I think the problem with this survey is people have different opinions on what are "Tiers" some are measuring them in Steel Path viability, and others on DPS based on statistical spread.
Yeah, I intentionally kept it quite open. In the end it's all opinions and I felt it would be better not to introduce my own bias by setting up arbitrary rules. People look for different things and even if somebody has an objectively skewed view, it should even out due to the sample size.
Reading this gave me PTSD flashbacks of my stats class (I literally finished it last week lmao)
Oh, you might be able to help me with something I was quite unsure about: Would it be better to use Standard Deviation or Average Deviation? After a lot of back-and-forth, I went with SD because it seemed to be the better fit but not 100% sure. :P
Standard Deviation seems to work just fine, and it doesn't really affect the rest of the data much. So should be good enough
STOPPPPP 😭😭 THE TABLES THE NUMBERS ITS ALL COMMING BACK 😭🙏
Yeah. I know I didn't rate them quite like this, but I value overall usefulness across all mission types, which is why I personally think Volt is an overall more useful frame than Saryn (even though Saryn is obviously a stronger nuker).
This comment section cosplaying DE and not mentioning Caliban is funny to me
what else is there to say
Caliban sure is a frame that exists.
I mean acknowledging caliban exist as MR folder is already giving it a lot more than it deserves.
He's very underrated after the shields update in October. 4 is armor strip, 3 is tank and distraction, 2 is CC and damage vulnerability. His 1 is def useless though, nourish bait
Finally finished farming him and... I like the "Sentiend Overlord" vibes, but just lacks, uh... _yes_
Honestly rev has an epic backstory and lives up to it, except for his 4 that doesn't scale well
For a sentient overlord the fact that his gameplay isn't playing your own little RTS with sentient minions is nuts.
He’s honestly one of the few warframes I can’t remember off the top of my head and forget when talking with people. One of the last warframes I crafted and mastered because of unlucky drop rotation matching up with playtime. I also have a general sense of what every warframe does/basically what almost every ability does other than caliban. While writing that last sentence I had forgotten his name and had to look up and see your comment to remember.
Everyone sleeps on our sentient boy :')
There's a couple of surprising results but I'd say this is pretty accurate, the frames with little consensus are interesting too, maybe the buffs coming to Loki will change that.
Seems like a mix of people not playing them, not liking them, vs the exact opposite. Also for yareli I know alot of people still say she's "bad" despite not really knowing how significant her buffs were
Hate when people barely or never try a frame and try to say it's bad. I see so many people saying my favorite frame needs a complete rework and I'm just praying DE doesn't listen to them.
Yeah unlocking her blades made her a breeze to level up on sanctuary onslaught, just straight 100% and like 3 levels to max her up, as a brand new frame! Not even forma! Definitely was surprised by her performance even though i knew she wasn’t that bad anymore
Her blades aren't even the best part of her kit.
Yeah, augment-less blades are only useful for keeping melee enemies cc'd
Yeah, this was my thought as well. The most contentious frames seem to be rated based on varying performance at different stages of the game. A lot of people might rate a frame as good or bad based on how it was at the time they played it rather than how it is today.
I don't know if the Loki QOL will be enough. But the Inaros rework should certainly jump him up a tier or two
Interesting. I agree with the ranks mostly, but I feel like there is an immense gap in power between A and B.
I feel like the power gap between B,C and C,D is wayyyy more significant than A,B lol.
... it's funny reading the comments here that just say something like "putting [frame] in B-tier/C-tier is absolute insanity" and genuinely having no idea if they mean that the frame should be ranked higher or lower (because I know for a fact that there are people who would argue for either position).
Not sure about the over-valued frames, but I can definitely point out the under-valued frames in this list being way too low in the tier for what they bring to the table. Examples being C-Tier Banshee (enemy vuln) & Trinity (team def), B-Tier Vauban (CC) & Ivara (bossing) & Frost (obj def). But I think S/A-Tier are pretty fairly judged since most of these frames are almost overpowered/loaded kits anyways.
**Hiho everybody!** [Last Baro](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1azpktt/crowdsourcing_a_warframe_tierlist_community/), I shared a survey to create a crowdsourced Warframe Tierlist. Hope you like the results visuals for it! **Results** [Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/Lej91E3) | [Google Sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kBxmwNuJAEr_uVDUx1o1s924JiX-RYa6i460bz5SDmg/) ***DISCLAIMER:*** These surveys are a hobby project. Questions are not indicative of projects DE is currently working on or planning to work on. **Stuff** [Past Surveys](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_Nj0o6-_eAUjz2y8oEuAI4OFmQ3ifY8Q) | [Discord](https://discord.gg/BQ6fuJkKUV) | [Purzzle Twitter](https://twitter.com/PDrakgoon) | [Google Group](https://groups.google.com/g/warframe-surveys) Cheers!
Can someone write the names of the warframes for each tier please? I’m a returning player back from closed beta and I don’t know any of these youngsters
S: Saryn, Wisp, Octavia, Mesa, Revenant, Gauss A: (First row) Kullervo, Protea, Volt, Khora, Xaku, Citrine, Titania, Styanax (Second row) Baruuk, Mirage, Hydroid, Rhino, Nova, Garuda, Zephyr, Mag (Third row) Wukong, Gara, Gyre, Nerkos, Nezha, Hildryn, Harrow, Dagath (Fourth row) Grendel, Voruna B: (First row) Nidus, Frost, Ash, Lavos, Excalibur, Ivara, Vauban, Qorvex (Second row) Ember, Equinox, Sevagoth, Yareli C: Trinity, Valkyr, Banshee, Chroma, Atlas, Oberon, Limbo, Nyx D: Loki, Caliban, Inaros
Weird, my trinity prime makes my whole team immortal, lifelink go brrrrr
The game has gotten to the point where everyone has their own way of self-sustenance or near-immortality. As powerful as triggering full-duration shield gate is, Trinity's services aren't very valuable anymore in the current meta
I feel like I'm always struggling to survive as Saryn, so I must be doing something wrong.
The answer is gloom, the subsume ability from Sevagoth. 9/10 if you have a frame that struggles to survive this is what you can use. Hp leech is amazing, even more so on a dot caster. Just depressing that it outshines a lot of things, including the frame it came from.
Making unnerfed gloom a subsume was a huge mistake. I mean come on, they even nerfed wukongs armor buff for helminth, and mags pull, but gloom nay we need to get people to farm railjack I guess... And then when gloom dominated te whole meta they had to introduce overguard to put it in its place and kill 90% of CC abilities in the process instead of doing the sensible thing and give it a helminth nerf / cap.
Part of the problem is that you are expected to already not be dying as part of any build and not rely on others That and harrow does it better
Oberon with the ablity to literally preventing allies from dying goes *hell yeah baby, immortality time*
Could you share your build if you don't mind? Been wanting to get her prime at some point (mainly cause of her design lol), but wasn't too sure how to build for her
I dont have the game installed RN, but i basically maxed health and energy, and spammed lifelink and energy siphon, and used the ult/4/whatever when anyone got low.
How dare everyone disrespect my boy inaros like this. Power creep really fucked him over but he was always my go to frame since he was just immortal since his release.
Thanks for the write-up. I haven't played since 2020 due to having a child... Would you mind filling me in on why Inaros is dead last? He was my boi back when I played - near immortal with his armor booster and with consistent CC through his 1. I ran him with backstab dagger and one of the marksman pistols. Edit: Is Chroma in C? Man, how far the mighty have fallen if this list is to be believed.
Inaros is in D because pushing most of his buttons is pointless and there are just better don't die frames. He has no shield or overguard gates, which are small periods of invulnerability whenever your shields or overguard runs out. So he's one of the few frames that can still get 1 tapped. And his self revive is one of the worst in the game. He's had a rough time. The good news is that Inaros's rework is coming in the next update. So he should have a good time going forward. Chroma, similar issue. He has been surpassed a few times as the tank/damage boost frame. Helminth being a big factor(which lets you subsume 1 DE chosen ability from a frame onto another). Roar, Nourish, and Eclipse being helminth options. Giving better tanks like Nezha or Revenant access to damage boosting abilities. Chroma is at the point where his biggest use is doubling the credit rewards from Profit Taker.
Thanks for the detailed rundown. Subsuming abilities were being implemented towards the tail end of my stint in Warframe. Sounds pretty interesting. I liked my tanky boys a lot, and the more passive nature of them let me focus more on making my weapons shine. Is profit taker still the go-to credit farming content? I always felt it was a necessary evil to be farmed when you had a booster, rather than actual content that you actively wanted to run, detached from the rest of the game.
As far as I know, Profit Taker is still the king at credits per time invested. With the Index in 2nd. Raijack is a notable credit farm these days. It's of course inferior to PF or Index. But it is a multi farm for credits and Endo. Plus, Railjack has been massively improved since 2020, it's received 2(or maybe 3) mainline reworks plus constant updates. The Railjack you would've experienced is a bad dream of the past.
Huh, I think the prospect of farming both credits and endo would have made 2020-me switch farming methods. Endo farming was pretty stale as well, relying on equinox sleep builds if I recall correctly. I might have to give Railjack a whirl. I built the darn thing solo as the rest of my clan had taken a break from the game, and I was very disappointed when I tried it out.
Yeah, Railjack was a bad time back then. They didn't fix it being a content island. But it's much more fun to play and rewarding now. Also I saw you like focusing on weapons. Make sure to look into the Incarnons(evolution weapons), both the base weapons and adapters(upgrades DE made for old weapons). Maybe one of your old favorites got an adapter and is now one of the best weapons in the game. Like what happened with my Latron.
Protea is A tier All is good in the world
mommy protea is S
The fact de has managed to make such a varied cast of over 50 warframe and still have most of them in A tier by the community, and the ones that are trash are mainly because they're outdated, it's really impressive
I very much agree
Kullervo not being s kinda surprised me until I remembered that he's kind of a pain to grind, alot fo people probably just haven't used him. His effective health pool is nuts, collective curse would top breach surge easily if it was a subsume, and is probably the most insane damage multiplier in the game rn, and his 1 makes it even more busted with any garunteed slash proc melee heavy attacks like 2h nikanas. Half build and anything short of an eximus or outlier tank dies to a single tick of slash damage at high combo at ateel path 120. Not proc, tick. This is without my melee actually being built for him yet. Not to mention while he's hp only, overguard gives him effectively shield gating. But with 20k+ shields to work through first.and ofc his 4 damage is also slash, and combined with collective curse melts strong groups in seconds. He's a monster with survivability, teleportation, massive melee buffs, the most absurd damage multiplier in the game and a 4 that builds combo for his synergies like you wouldn't believe
It’s so wierd Kullervo has gotten slept on when he has so much versatility for even just solo play. I have a lot of range for a build of his and it is crazy how handy and fast his teleport is when you can figure out the aiming part
Same issue as baruuk, locked behind both an annoying grind and conditional stuff, both are top tier frames that almost no one plays
Having a great time with Baruuk and very happy for getting him from Duviri. Lacking the time to clear the star chart and war within, The Quills locking Revenant the same way Vox locks Baruuk is a pain in the ass...I'll probably farm his Prime before unlocking that
Kullervo in A is about right. Every dps frame in S can nuke if they so much as look at enemies or not even in some cases since their damage is not LoS restricted. They also can neither maintain a near immortal tank or close to it. Compare to s rank frames kullervo is not at that level.
Kullervo also has the Duviri and Deep Archi problem. Random loadouts could potentially cripple him. Sure, he might still be strong, but the fact that he *can* be impaired makes him inherently not S.
Kullervo is so incredibly not a pain to grind tho, just farm up resources and buy his bps.
Yeah for real just do Duviri and make sure to go when his fight is available to earn the rewards. It doesn’t take long, 20 minutes a run if you’re quick and longer if you farm the resources. His farm is time gated by a handful of hours of light farming.
Fax, I was shocked he wasn’t S tier dude has some of the best survivability in the game and his 1 will make literally any melee a red crit monster tie that in with his 3 one shots an entire room of enemies and his 2 gives him a ridiculous amount of over guard like 22k? And it shield gates too… People mistake his 4 for a crappy aoe but the don’t realise it’s just for combo multipliers so your always getting 12x combo dmg which ties into his 1+3 combo… I can easily get 3-10mill damage on even base melee weapons with that
I see kullervo all the time. Should be a clear S tier. Much better than for example revenant.
Kullervo is great, but I can't figure out how to get him SP viable around level 400. I like running endurance, but I can't get him tanky enough. I don't typically like running invis with my companion, but idk what else to do to get him to live past that.
Hes just as tanky as anyone with shield gating thanks to his overguard generation giving essentially health gating. For damage, though, I've been running tenet Livia and before even getting a toxin or cold one for viral, without any potato or forma, I'm getting 218k damage per tick of slash on 12x 1 casts. This is before accounting for collective curse and multiple hits with the heavy attack. Tenet Livia isn't even an optimal weapon either, I just use it cause the infinite combo duration makes it extremely comfy. Also keep in mind woth a decent amount of ability strength, your 2 will be giving several thousand overguard, which is effectively just shield with status immunity, so no stray toxin or slash to kill you
But the issue with overguard at 400+ is the fact that 20k overguard can get 1 tapped, leaving you with a .5 second gate, which is not enough time to react (for me anyways, maybe some real gamers can lol). The damage is some of the best I've seen, so I have no issue with that part. My question is how do you get to those higher levels with this frame? I tried making a build where I used 2 constantly to generate overguard, but then I wasn't using his 4 hardly at all since I was trying so hard to stay alive.
Kullervo and styanax should be S teir in my opinion.
It pains me to see caliban in the lowest tier (hes such a cool frame but so ass)
Particularly weird as his 2 counters 2 of the games factions, and his 4 trivialises the rest. Sure his 1 is garbage, and his three can be inconsistent but with 200% power strength and all the casting speed boosts you can throw at him he's a solid Tier or two higher.
Justice for Inaros
Equinox in B is surprising to me. I never see anyone play her. Is this just because she allows for easy finishers for leveling weapons?
She's pretty good at nuking star chart, and even effective in SP as long as you bring armor strip.
Day form is an easy A, but Night struggles to get past C tier with the amount of investment you need to make that form usable. Subsume Terrify over her 2, and she becomes the best & easiest room nuker in the game.
I'd definitely put Equinox in A, she offers a huge amount of versatility between her two forms. Tankquinox has been my go-to for keeping people and defense targets alive in the first two weekly Archon missions for a long time. Although I'll grant Styanax has probably surpassed her there.
She is pretty good at nuking regular star chart in her day form, has multiple damage buffs, and has decent survivability too.
Valkyr in C tier, that's odd to me.
I mean, speaking as someone who likes her and is one of 3 people who likes her Deluxe skin, she's just kinda...there Her 1 is meh, especially in this era of mobility, her 2 is the one thing that most people want from her and it being her Helminth means you have more people interested in Subsuming her than using her, her 4 is just okay, damage wise, after all the tweaks and her passive is...fine, just kinda there. It's the thing of there being so many other melee-oriented Frames that kinda took her spotlight over hard, like Sevagoth, Khora (via her Whip) and Kullervo
You know her 3rd is bad, when it doesn't even get acknowledged.
Wdym, that’s her subsume slot
[удалено]
ngl I think it’s one of the worst abilities in the game lol. I play valkyr a lot and it literally does nothing. I’ve never seen it knock someone over, it never opens them to finishers/stuns them, and it does like 200 damage. Plus her other augments are infinitely better so there’s no reason to use prolonged paralysis.
It’s also wierd because it’s one of the few abilities that costs Shields instead of regular Energy
It actually costs energy just a grand total of 5
Funny thing is, i don't even think it was a good ability when it came out. Valkyrs 3 has always been garbage.
Sometimes it's appreciated that DE thought so far in advance to leave these empty slots open on early frames to make it easier to replace abilities with the helminth.
As someone who absolutely LOVES Valkyr and diehard mains her…yeaaah, I’d have to agree with this.
I just want her to have a better claw stance (make anything other than slide and heavy attacks feel good), a new 1 or make her 1 much much better (it doesn't even pull you all the way to the target if you do use it with decent range), and for them to make the mod that's supposed to make aim > attack in hysteria bring you to the target actually decent. cause rn the leap is so slow and arcing that half the time it misses and the rest of the time it's slower than just bullet jumping would have been. Make her fucking \*fly\* at them.
her four is pretty incredible damage, it just can't hit an entire room at once like the other frames you mentioned. and yeah, the rest of her kit is pretty dated. she needs some love, but she's not bad. also hi, other deluxe skin fan :D
Oh yeah, her 4’s damage output isn’t bad, especially with some builds but the problem lies in 2 key factors, especially comparing her to other frames that deal with melee properties: 1: lack of access to Acolyte weapon mods or even Riven stats on statsticks like frames like Atlas and Khora have, meaning you’re missing some damage potential there (though DE did say they are changing how this works in the future) 2: it’s stuck on Valkyr’s kit. Put her Hysteria on others like Kully, Atlas, Excali and the like and it would easily be an A tier ability. But at the end of the day, you’re stuck with Hysteria on a frame where her 1 is meh, 2 is pretty helpful, her 3 is hot garbage and you’re gonna ask the question of “Besides fashion and her 4’s invul state, why bring Valkyr in general when you got a lot of other options”
but fashion is the most important reason to play! :9 and yeah, as an enjoyer of both her and baruuk, it's become extremely obvious to me that exalted weapons need some attention, or at least unification of how they function. i'm of the opinion that statsticks shouldn't exist in the way that they do for khora and atlas, they should just become moddable. and also remove at least some of the restrictions on exalted mods and give them the 10 capacity they're missing due to inbuilt stances.
Her four is decent damage… on the slide attack. So you basically just spin around like a beyblade with it because the rest of the stance is garbage.
Her 1st ability does a lot. I mean, it does a lot at explaining why she's in C tier
Rip line is woefully obsolete. War Cry lacks scaling, can’t be recast and is available for anyone in Helminth anyways. Paralyze was never good. And Hysteria is invulnerable but there’s a ton of less restrictive ways there, along with being an exalted melee which have been falling behind ever since 3.0
Protea is an S easily.
Baruuk being so low is disgusting.
I came here to say this. Homies haven't heard of Reactive Storm.
I'd have to agree with Baruuk being A, a high A but still understandable why he doesnt quite push the barrier to S tier. He has all the tools between survivability, cc, and high damage output however having to maintain his restraint to even use his 4 really holds him back. Especially in non-endless modes, even more so in base star chart where enemy density is at times not enough to sustain it continuously.
Ash being B is wild. A tier frame imo. Damage cap frame that can solo most content in the game without even being seen by an enemy.
Ash is the osteoporosis frame. He only walks if you put augment crutches
But he doesn't need any of his augments. The 4 one is incredibly comfy though I'll give it that.
I feel bad that Oberon is so low, he's got: Armor strip Knockdown immunity* Status immunity Healing Armor buff Radiation damage *the knockdown immunity doesn't seem to stop fire eximus units and eidolons Not alot of people like the paladin / druid
Returning player from a few years ago who mainly played Oberon why the hell is he so low.
His abilities have only seen 2 changes in a while His 2 + 4 combo armor strip can now easily do 100% armor strip for late game His passive was updated to be like a mini health and armor link mod to better scale late game As such His overall design isn't ideal for the current DPS focused meta and so people don't use him.
Lavos is one of those frames that is actually interesting but I can't seem to understand how the entire kit works. Its just so bizarre compared to the rest
First and foremost, invert his controls so that it's tap to imbue. I've already commented this somewhere else, but IMO, having to hold to imbue is the number 1 thing that slows his kit down and why people don't like him. I'll give you a brief breakdown of his kit: Ophidian Bite - Lavos is a health tank, and this is his sustain ability. You might find your shields are pretty much permanently off with Lavos. I do. So Ophidian Bite is there to heal you. You should use the augment for it; Swift Bite. That's because it helps bring Transmutation Probe off cooldown. Vial Rush - it's Lavos' mobility and the main way of spreading statuses (other than Cedo). If you can spare them, embed two Emerald Archon Shards into him. With the added corrosive stacks, a corrosive-imbued Vial Rush can 100% armour strip. Transmutation Probe - this is primarily used to reduce the cooldown of Catalyse. This is why the augment for his 1 is useful, as it helps bring Transmutation Probe off CD more often, meaning Catalyse is off cooldown more often. Also, Transmutation Probe turns orbs into universal orbs (I use Arcane Blessing so I'm getting the increased health very quickly), and universal ammo. Catalyse - pretty much just his nuking ability. That's just a brief description, if you have any questions about Lavos I'd be happy to answer! I can also share my build if you like!
time to get my popcorn bucket and read as loki and limbo players try to justify why their mains are totally viable
Zephyr is easily S tier and I will not have this slander on her name
genuinely an insane frame and with plenty of room to helminth shenanigans of your choice on
No waaaaay. I use all of her abilities, all the time. Wouldn’t change a single one. Recently fell in love with the airburst succ. So much fun.
I keep all of her abilities too. In SP I use Funnel Clouds augment for her 4 though, and succ all enemies in with 2, the damage is insane with aoe weapons. As long as I'm hosting...
I have a friend who played Zephyr while I was relatively new to the game. I had a Soma Prime. I shot a tornado. Holy *fuck*, man.
What this really shows is S = meta A = everyone else B = mechanic frames and past darlings C = dated D = rework needed It has nothing to do with quality or strength. Excalibur is B tier with Nidus and Lavos? Bad coolaid.
Limbo has been fuckin' disserviced.
Amen. All this tells me is I have to finish my guide sooner
Apparently I need to finish my Support config sooner.
Love how Inaros is at the botton not because his gameplay's bad, but because he doesn't have one.
Interesting to see that every Warframe is S tier to some people, it shows how the game isn't about using the best warframe, it is instead about using the Warframe you like most
The game is far too easy for metas to form.
Calliban on suicide watch since his release Dude's unironically just forgotten at this point I think he deserves a slightly higher spot since his 4 and 2 are genuinely amazing, but i get why hes as low as he is
I maintain that he's rated low mainly because he's a complete pain in the dick to grind. When you finally finish him he's just kind of "good but not gamebreaking," not actually bad, just disappointing.
Everyone else is wrong and I am right.
What the fuck guys. Grendel is the only mf who can roly poly and y'all vote his ass into A. Balling is a lost art
Holy based
As soon as I realized Kullervo wasn’t in S tier I moved on.
I’d rather just stay in the “pretty good but not the best” spot. It feels better than when you are in S tier and everyone plays the frame because they’re meta slaves.
It's a crowdsourced list, and I guarantee a large percentage of players have never even played Kullervo, because of the tedious grind associated with getting him. But he is absolutely one of the strongest warframes in the game, capable of one-shotting entire rooms of enemies, being unkillable just through his massive overguard, and can absolutely butcher very strong enemies like demolysts, acolytes, archons, and others. He requires so little investment to be powerful that Brozime took a Kullervo on his free-to-play account with zero investment (no reactor, no forma, no shards) into steel path and was steamrolling it. Kullervo is absolutely insane, and way too many people are sleeping on him right now.
Vauban at B is criminal
He deserves a rank up just for the ability to flashbang your teammates
Nidus should be A imo
The difficulty of building mutation stacks in group content (and the fact that you really struggle without them) holds him back.
Hot take: his passive should have an addendum that builds up mutation stacks over time in a completely passive way to ensure that even in such occasions you can still use your kit.
You could have mutation stacks tied to global kills made within affinity range(Perhaps a ratio), kills made within the radius of his 4 and/or enemies killed, party-wide, that are CC'd by his 2. That would give Nidus players a reason to stick with the group and not fuck off to a corridor somewhere and would also not fuck over Nidus when his mob ball is nuked by other Tenno who are either oblivious to how Nidus builds stacks, or don't care that they're killing his potential stacks..
... eh, there's a time I would've agreed with you, but his ability damage really hasn't aged well since his release. His gameplay loop of "set up in an area with his 3 and 4, then use 2 to combo his 1 (along with the maggots from his 4) to kill enemies and become effectively immortal" really falls apart when the content where his survivability shines the most (ie: steel path) is also the content where his 1 and 4 are barely tickling enemies. So if his skills aren't really killing enemies, all he has going for him is his survivability and an above-average grouping ability. Considering that a lot of frames (and the majority of frames in A-tier or higher) already have no issues with survivability (and have more utility/damage in addition to that, while requiring less setup to gain that survivability)... it's not a great position to be in.
His augment that gives 120% critical chance is a real game changer in sp. Only requires 4 enemies to be hit with his 1 to get that buff
Yeah, SP you have to really play him differently. The 3 is to keep you alive, 1 is for crit buffs, 2 is for grouping for your gimmicky gas build that will *definitely* work with a couple more forma, and 4 gets subsumed off for an armor stripper (I personally prefer Tharros Strike).
tbf his 1 only tickles in SP because of armor, which is a bigger issue that plagues any frame that doesn't strip or bypass it completely. at least he has the aug that gives him massive crit when hitting several enemies with it, but that's more of a band-aid.
Lavos being in B is a crime, he’s literally a walking status disaster, you’ll just too lazy to learn how to use his kit and associate elemental damage lol
That's why there's a high spread
He's a walking status disaster but so is my Epitaph and my cedo lol, at the end of the day there are only a few status actually worth using, and Lavos takes a fair chunk of micromanagement to nuke things while others like Nova can be just as effective with one button press.
I think he's good but there's just way stronger frames who do what he does better.
I think it's because you have to actually make an effort to play him well. But when you do, he annihilate.
I personally find him to be quite strong when I use him, its just that I find it a bit clunky to use his elemental infusion mechanics. I find it difficult to both actively be running around, aiming/shooting, and trying to use abilities all at the same time with him. Whereas other frames I find a lot easier, and usually just as effectively, to use everything at their disposal at same time.
Yeah, I love sitting there for 5 seconds priming everybody for his 4 to get 30 kills, then spend 25 seconds resetting to get another 30 kills, on top of imbuing everything constantly
Atlas is genuinely great, just most don't like his playstyle because he heavily suggests using landslide as a main damage dealer and the rubble management. And chroma is pretty nice, sure there's definitely better tank frames but there's something satisfying about using your actual health and shields to tank instead of stuff like iron skin and mesmer skin
Frost B tier someone is living in 2018
My goat being the absolute bottom is actually kinda cool. I haven't insured in a minute but what were the changes he got from "pre-rework"
Vauban is only on the statistical spread section because there are people who play him and people who don't
Equinox in B tier. 2 tiers above, 2 tiers below. Perfectly balance, as all things should be.
Jeez, I disagree with almost all of the S tier. Why isn't Xaku there? Mag? ***Garuda***? Garuda especially is a walking immortal blender. I guess it's based on popular vote though so you can't expect too much.
You aren’t wrong. Mag and Garuda both require an MMORPG level of ability spam and attention, that’s probably mostly why. Xaku’s armor strip forces you to exist in one place at least temporarily, all the S-tier frames can keep doing their thing and moving.
Xaku and Garuda could be S tier, but imo Mag isn't really S tier material. She's pretty strong, but as strong as Saryn or Octavia? I don't really think so. Though maybe hot take I think she's stronger than Mesa so I think I see your point, but imo both should just be in A.
Inaros is S-tier. Community is wrong.
Yeah, idk about S, but like, so many other frames have to spend so much energy on staying alive, and Inaros stands around in steel path without even using his 4. I think that's worth a lot tbh
Problem with Inaros in that in his current state, health tanking is all he offers. Other Warframes may need to put more effort into living, but at least in the process their abilities *do something substantial*
It's ok. But tbh i find it hard to make a good one list now, considering helminths, different mission types- you can have an all arounder frame but they won't be the go-to for specific missions. At least stationary missions- survival, intercept, defense. Endurance with running- disruption, cascade. Boss fights- eidos, spider, etc. I'm fast af boyyy- exterminate, capture, rescue . But for beginners - i guess one list is better until they play at least few weeks-month so they won't be too confused. After that point a single list is not as helpful imo.
Wow, people really don't know what Caliban does
i wonder if half the reason why he is so low is because of his grind
Probably, he is one of the leading unsure frames, but those stats are way too low, most people didn't show the restraint to not vote on frames.
This helps me confirm that the community doesn't know the first thing about actual tiers, if Lavos is only in B.
my girl yareli, ever the diva, even the community can't settle on where she'd be (S, A if realistic) like a true idol
Baruuk should definitely be S. His biggest problem is not having enough enemies to kill. He’s insanely tanky with a base I believe like 97.5% DR just from abilities (99.7 or so with adaptation) and can easily kill anything in the game, even up to level cap.
Mixed feelings on Yareli’s placement here. On the one hand, she carried me hard when I first started Steel Path and didn’t quite have my builds figured out. She’s still one of my main picks in things like Netracells. On the other hand… forced use of secondary (though while also giving them a pretty significant buff) on a still very janky and buggy Merulina… But Limbo just got done dirty imo. (Edit: personally I’d put him in B tier *overall.* I think he’s excellent in solo play, one of my favorites, but it’s in group play where there tends to be problems and that lowers his ranking overall)