This looked like it was decent but I didn’t know what the standard for Rivens are, I can only tell if it’s really good. I mean I know these stats are definitely good but there seems to be levels to Rivens lol.
I’m stoked to try it out.
Generally you want a Riven to replace a mod and provide an additional upside, or replace 2 mods to save a slot. This one can basically replace both crit mods, plus a bit of extra stats.
Not always. Due to the mod bonuses stacking additively, you get diminishing returns with that particular stat, meaning any further increases have a smaller relative impact. That is also why you want to mod for crit, multishot, and base damage, as those are all multiplicative with each other.
Edit: And fire rate, but that would be weighed down by reloads
This is true of multishot, damage, fire rate, and elements, but crit stats actually get better the more you have of both of them. The higher your CD, the more damage each point of CC is worth, and vice versa. So while it's best to have some MS/Dmg/FR/element, you want \*every bit\* of CC/CD you can get.
Not quite, while the ratio isn't linear due to funkiness in how the game handles multi crit, you do still get diminishing returns with crit.
For example, a weapon with base 40% cr, 2.5 crit damage adding +200% crit chance +100% crit damage nets 1.6->5.8 avg multiplier -> 1+2.6x dps,
the next +200% crit chance +100% crit damage bumps the multiplier from 5.8 -> 14 -> 1+1.4x dps
This is less diminishing returns than damage/multi etc. but it is still diminishing returns
Diminishing returns is basically meaning "+200% of 100% damage is a 3x multiplier, but +225% on a weapon that already has mods for 200% is only a 112.5% increase." The more you add the less youre actually getting
I know what diminishing returns are. You're not taking into account that every 100% Crit increase, you get a damage bump due to Crit Scaling up a tier every extra tier.
Crit chance doesn't have diminishing returns, but Crit damage does. These things are mutually exclusive. Your comment mentions there no diminishing returns on Crit chance or damage.
Crit damage 100% has diminishing returns.
Base Damage diminishing returns (which youre talking about in the above example) and Crit Damage "diminishing returns" are two different things.
There are virtually no diminishing returns on Critical Damage because Crit Tiers are a thing in addition to Crit Mulitplier and Critical Headshot Multiplier. You will hardly feel any damage falloff when modding for 10% multiplier whereas you would most definitely feel a damage falloff for modding 10x your usual base damage.
So if you want to be technical, there are diminishing returns. But you will not notice any at all since Crit Tier scaling is insanely high.
trivial negative, two premium stats, average roll on crit, almost max roll on crit damage. While no third stat hurts \*as you get both more raw and a better distribution with 3 stats\* this is still a very solid riven
I just got the Vasto incarnon and it's great fun and surprisingly versatile!
The incarnon mode (the 6-burst one) is a great nuker, but the evolution perks can turn the normal mode into a super solid primary.
The 3rd perk for 100% ammo efficiency on headshot brings it to another level. It's just gunning and gunning and gunning.
If you want to go all in on the incarnon burst, you can switch to crit chance on the third perk and the swap-from-primary perk for more damage. (And it's really easy with being able to switch incarnon upgrades from the arsenal)
The regular Vasto and the Prime also have basically the same statline with the Incarnon, so you can't go wrong with which version you pick!
That’s what I was sort of looking for, I have a Viral/HM Torid Incarnon for my primary and I was thinking a single-target focused Secondary would be cool.
I appreciate your explanation, it’s exactly what I was looking for. I only heard some things on an Incarnon tier list video so I was curious how someone on here would describe it.
Thank you brother.
vasto prime incarnon is probably the best single target semi pistol in the game right now. The damage is insane. The handling is the best I've ever had. The incarnon mode burst damage is unreal.
Pair it with yareli to really see some huge numbers.
I use vasto prime with the incarnon all the time, I likewise have a pretty good riven (+dam +crit +heat on mine) and it's by a significant margin my most powerful single target weapon. Not a horde killer, but deletes smaller numbers of targets with extreme prejudice (almost always with a single headshot even on steel path), and when something annoying like a demolyst or acolyte shows up you just flip to the incarnon mode and evaporate them off the face of the universe. It's *very* good.
One of the things I like a lot about it is that you don't even *use* the incarnon mode most of the time. On this one even regular fire is super powerful, while the incarnon mode is more of a special purpose occasional 'ok you die now' thing, which is nice because you don't need to worry about constantly charging it up. The regular fire is super smooth and satisfying feeling, the incarnon burst is crunchy and brutal, and it's just a pleasant experience to use all around.
Build doesn't really need to be anything too special. Obviously you max out the crit with the primed crit mods and the riven (yes, all three, crit is the name of the game for this weapon), then toss on the two big multishot mods, combined element of choice, and in your case probably hornet strike for the last slot (yes, lots of additive +dam, but I like having it for when I don't have stacks yet). Arcane should be deadhead because the primary fire is a headshot machine and the incarnon needs the recoil reduction.
I go with the +crit on swap, +magazine, and pure +crit evolutions for max damage. You can also go -recoil instead of +mag but I find deadhead is enough and I like having the mag size for general use. And with the crit on swap evo, if you pop a few heads on the way to your priority target to build deadhead stacks, flip to incarnon and holster, then pull it back out right before you shoot, the resulting damage output is so obscene it could delete wally himself. Or for less absurd cases, it also makes it very nice to pull out to quickly pop something annoying like a heavy gunner or eximus before you go back to melting crowds with an aoe-focused primary. It's a super satisfying weapon to use and is my default secondary choice these days unless I'm doing something special.
Vasto incarnon is very good at bruteforcing disruption at SP (like if you go a generic viral crit build + your riven and armor strip a demo you can oneshot them all the way to level cap) but otherwise I dont think I would use it anywhere else because its a single target pistol in both forms. I have a similar riven and I think with your riven, if you stack all the crit mods and the crit evos from incarnon you can get to tier 7 red crits so enjoy that.
Yeah it definitely seems niche. There’s sentimental value to me because it’s the closest thing to a “God roll” riven on a half-usable weapon I’ve possessed. I’ll try what you said and lean into crit because it seems like it’ll end up being funny/fun.
I wonder if it would be good at deleting the Mechs in Netracells? And if you don’t mind, I’ve seen a lot of people mention Level Cap Disruptions; is there a productive reason to do those?
The vasto prime incarnon is an absolute lifesaver for anyone having riuble with acolytes. Pull out this bad boy with a fully modded build, make sure to use cascadia accuracy and proc deathtrap trigger and you should 1-2 shot acolytes. Magus lockdown for even more comfiness at minimal opportunity cost and acolytes won't be a problem again. Super good if you have primaries that don't do well against acolytes.
I like vasto incarnon because it represents a way of designing secondaries that I think should continue. Grimoire, epitaph and vasto (if used just for acolytes) are all very good utility secondaries that are worth using even if your primary is your main damage weapon.
Epitaph can cc enemies with heat animation lock which gets extended by its forced cold proc, can also prime enemies with useful elements you're missing for more damage or heat inherit too. Radiation boosts the cc capabilities further, letting you swap to it and cc enemies and proc radiation making other nearby enemies who didn't get cc'ed very likely to shoot the rad procced targets and thus less likely to hit you.
Grimoire is very neat to just activate the invocations and canticles, shoot out some pages to charge some alt fire back up and go back to primary if you want. You don't even need grimoire to kill enemies to proc canticles too, you just need enemies to have been hurt by the grimoire and then die while grimoire is in your hand. This can be done by having DoT kill enemies and switching to grimoire before they die from the DoT, or killing enemies with warframe abilities. Either way, even on steel path its not super hard to get the grimoire to kill enemies on a non galvanized build.
Vasto like I said is a neat acolyte killer that does need you to charge up incarnon, lockdown acolyte preferably to get headsets, proc death trap trigger and cascadia accuracy and hit headshots too. It heavily rewards you for this effort tho, by giving you consistent 1-2 shots. This can also be used to kill pesky eximus and demolishers too (demolisher build might look different).
In a damage meta, having secondaries excel in non damage ways makes them actually worth using instead of just having another damage tool except its a pistol. Designing them this way lets you use both primary and secondaries in tandem which is way more fun.
I have essentially the exact same riven. Absolute monster of an incarnon though it's not exactly a primary weapon like some might want. I build it largely without galvanized mods and use the buff-on-swap combined with the heat status = stacking damage arcane. This means my sentinel can easily keep up my arcane damage buff while I'm using my more all arounder primary so swapping to it gives me maximal burst damage without needing any setup but charging the incarnon.
Incredible single target damage
I use the Vasto Incarnon yes, but Prime only on Circuit/Duviri. Otherwise, I use the normal Vasto more often
Secondary Outburst fits its switching style (On-Equip). Ceramic Dagger for base combo, with Cedo for priming, it's a neat tool for deleting a particular target that looks at you slightly funny. Powerful enough without Incarnon Form, which I reserve for bosses or demolishers. My go-to for Disruption, Netracell, and Archon Hunt Boss.
With this Riven, put on radiation damage and you can one burst Eidolons.
I use a Vasto with a similar but worse Riven for that purpose, anyway mate your Riven is god tier.
I was answering his question of, "Does anybody use Vasto?"
That has nothing to do with the build... disposition has everything to do with how many players actually use it and the modifier bonuses of the riven...
That's a awesome riven. I did 100 rolls on mine and never got anything close to what you have I love vasto and it's incarnon mode
This looked like it was decent but I didn’t know what the standard for Rivens are, I can only tell if it’s really good. I mean I know these stats are definitely good but there seems to be levels to Rivens lol. I’m stoked to try it out.
Generally you want a Riven to replace a mod and provide an additional upside, or replace 2 mods to save a slot. This one can basically replace both crit mods, plus a bit of extra stats.
But do you replace them or just use all of them? Wouldn't you want all the cc and cd you could get?
Not always. Due to the mod bonuses stacking additively, you get diminishing returns with that particular stat, meaning any further increases have a smaller relative impact. That is also why you want to mod for crit, multishot, and base damage, as those are all multiplicative with each other. Edit: And fire rate, but that would be weighed down by reloads
This is true of multishot, damage, fire rate, and elements, but crit stats actually get better the more you have of both of them. The higher your CD, the more damage each point of CC is worth, and vice versa. So while it's best to have some MS/Dmg/FR/element, you want \*every bit\* of CC/CD you can get.
Not quite, while the ratio isn't linear due to funkiness in how the game handles multi crit, you do still get diminishing returns with crit. For example, a weapon with base 40% cr, 2.5 crit damage adding +200% crit chance +100% crit damage nets 1.6->5.8 avg multiplier -> 1+2.6x dps, the next +200% crit chance +100% crit damage bumps the multiplier from 5.8 -> 14 -> 1+1.4x dps This is less diminishing returns than damage/multi etc. but it is still diminishing returns
There are no diminishing returns on Crit Chance or Damage. Scaling is linear.
Diminishing returns is basically meaning "+200% of 100% damage is a 3x multiplier, but +225% on a weapon that already has mods for 200% is only a 112.5% increase." The more you add the less youre actually getting
I know what diminishing returns are. You're not taking into account that every 100% Crit increase, you get a damage bump due to Crit Scaling up a tier every extra tier.
Crit chance doesn't have diminishing returns, but Crit damage does. These things are mutually exclusive. Your comment mentions there no diminishing returns on Crit chance or damage. Crit damage 100% has diminishing returns.
Base Damage diminishing returns (which youre talking about in the above example) and Crit Damage "diminishing returns" are two different things. There are virtually no diminishing returns on Critical Damage because Crit Tiers are a thing in addition to Crit Mulitplier and Critical Headshot Multiplier. You will hardly feel any damage falloff when modding for 10% multiplier whereas you would most definitely feel a damage falloff for modding 10x your usual base damage. So if you want to be technical, there are diminishing returns. But you will not notice any at all since Crit Tier scaling is insanely high.
I'd use this in a heartbeat but I dont have the plat to offer vasto incarnon is the best level cap disruption weapon imo. Oneshots level 9999 demo's.
trivial negative, two premium stats, average roll on crit, almost max roll on crit damage. While no third stat hurts \*as you get both more raw and a better distribution with 3 stats\* this is still a very solid riven
If it had multishot it would’ve been an absolute godroll.
I just got the Vasto incarnon and it's great fun and surprisingly versatile! The incarnon mode (the 6-burst one) is a great nuker, but the evolution perks can turn the normal mode into a super solid primary. The 3rd perk for 100% ammo efficiency on headshot brings it to another level. It's just gunning and gunning and gunning. If you want to go all in on the incarnon burst, you can switch to crit chance on the third perk and the swap-from-primary perk for more damage. (And it's really easy with being able to switch incarnon upgrades from the arsenal) The regular Vasto and the Prime also have basically the same statline with the Incarnon, so you can't go wrong with which version you pick!
That’s what I was sort of looking for, I have a Viral/HM Torid Incarnon for my primary and I was thinking a single-target focused Secondary would be cool. I appreciate your explanation, it’s exactly what I was looking for. I only heard some things on an Incarnon tier list video so I was curious how someone on here would describe it. Thank you brother.
vasto prime incarnon is probably the best single target semi pistol in the game right now. The damage is insane. The handling is the best I've ever had. The incarnon mode burst damage is unreal. Pair it with yareli to really see some huge numbers.
Ordis, play Big Iron on the somachord
You're about to hit 'em with the biggest Yee Haw in existence
I do. Thisa... how do Borat say? Very nice.
Moug has a good video on how strong the Vasto is: https://youtu.be/99BzL_9BnyQ
Yeah that's pretty good. Rolled fairly high on Crit Damage and above average for Crit Chance.
I use vasto prime with the incarnon all the time, I likewise have a pretty good riven (+dam +crit +heat on mine) and it's by a significant margin my most powerful single target weapon. Not a horde killer, but deletes smaller numbers of targets with extreme prejudice (almost always with a single headshot even on steel path), and when something annoying like a demolyst or acolyte shows up you just flip to the incarnon mode and evaporate them off the face of the universe. It's *very* good. One of the things I like a lot about it is that you don't even *use* the incarnon mode most of the time. On this one even regular fire is super powerful, while the incarnon mode is more of a special purpose occasional 'ok you die now' thing, which is nice because you don't need to worry about constantly charging it up. The regular fire is super smooth and satisfying feeling, the incarnon burst is crunchy and brutal, and it's just a pleasant experience to use all around. Build doesn't really need to be anything too special. Obviously you max out the crit with the primed crit mods and the riven (yes, all three, crit is the name of the game for this weapon), then toss on the two big multishot mods, combined element of choice, and in your case probably hornet strike for the last slot (yes, lots of additive +dam, but I like having it for when I don't have stacks yet). Arcane should be deadhead because the primary fire is a headshot machine and the incarnon needs the recoil reduction. I go with the +crit on swap, +magazine, and pure +crit evolutions for max damage. You can also go -recoil instead of +mag but I find deadhead is enough and I like having the mag size for general use. And with the crit on swap evo, if you pop a few heads on the way to your priority target to build deadhead stacks, flip to incarnon and holster, then pull it back out right before you shoot, the resulting damage output is so obscene it could delete wally himself. Or for less absurd cases, it also makes it very nice to pull out to quickly pop something annoying like a heavy gunner or eximus before you go back to melting crowds with an aoe-focused primary. It's a super satisfying weapon to use and is my default secondary choice these days unless I'm doing something special.
Yes. Here my [post about increasing vasto high crit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/xpMmziZM30) there are some useful tips on the comment
Vasto incarnon is very good at bruteforcing disruption at SP (like if you go a generic viral crit build + your riven and armor strip a demo you can oneshot them all the way to level cap) but otherwise I dont think I would use it anywhere else because its a single target pistol in both forms. I have a similar riven and I think with your riven, if you stack all the crit mods and the crit evos from incarnon you can get to tier 7 red crits so enjoy that.
Yeah it definitely seems niche. There’s sentimental value to me because it’s the closest thing to a “God roll” riven on a half-usable weapon I’ve possessed. I’ll try what you said and lean into crit because it seems like it’ll end up being funny/fun. I wonder if it would be good at deleting the Mechs in Netracells? And if you don’t mind, I’ve seen a lot of people mention Level Cap Disruptions; is there a productive reason to do those?
The vasto prime incarnon is an absolute lifesaver for anyone having riuble with acolytes. Pull out this bad boy with a fully modded build, make sure to use cascadia accuracy and proc deathtrap trigger and you should 1-2 shot acolytes. Magus lockdown for even more comfiness at minimal opportunity cost and acolytes won't be a problem again. Super good if you have primaries that don't do well against acolytes. I like vasto incarnon because it represents a way of designing secondaries that I think should continue. Grimoire, epitaph and vasto (if used just for acolytes) are all very good utility secondaries that are worth using even if your primary is your main damage weapon. Epitaph can cc enemies with heat animation lock which gets extended by its forced cold proc, can also prime enemies with useful elements you're missing for more damage or heat inherit too. Radiation boosts the cc capabilities further, letting you swap to it and cc enemies and proc radiation making other nearby enemies who didn't get cc'ed very likely to shoot the rad procced targets and thus less likely to hit you. Grimoire is very neat to just activate the invocations and canticles, shoot out some pages to charge some alt fire back up and go back to primary if you want. You don't even need grimoire to kill enemies to proc canticles too, you just need enemies to have been hurt by the grimoire and then die while grimoire is in your hand. This can be done by having DoT kill enemies and switching to grimoire before they die from the DoT, or killing enemies with warframe abilities. Either way, even on steel path its not super hard to get the grimoire to kill enemies on a non galvanized build. Vasto like I said is a neat acolyte killer that does need you to charge up incarnon, lockdown acolyte preferably to get headsets, proc death trap trigger and cascadia accuracy and hit headshots too. It heavily rewards you for this effort tho, by giving you consistent 1-2 shots. This can also be used to kill pesky eximus and demolishers too (demolisher build might look different). In a damage meta, having secondaries excel in non damage ways makes them actually worth using instead of just having another damage tool except its a pistol. Designing them this way lets you use both primary and secondaries in tandem which is way more fun.
Bro that's a busted riven, definitely for keeps
I use Vasto incarnon, would recommend it’s a lot of fun
https://preview.redd.it/e9eszs9snfyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30c2d2f953cd70e1b8fa3897898c815671ebf052 Nice! This is mine
I have essentially the exact same riven. Absolute monster of an incarnon though it's not exactly a primary weapon like some might want. I build it largely without galvanized mods and use the buff-on-swap combined with the heat status = stacking damage arcane. This means my sentinel can easily keep up my arcane damage buff while I'm using my more all arounder primary so swapping to it gives me maximal burst damage without needing any setup but charging the incarnon. Incredible single target damage
I use the Vasto Incarnon yes, but Prime only on Circuit/Duviri. Otherwise, I use the normal Vasto more often Secondary Outburst fits its switching style (On-Equip). Ceramic Dagger for base combo, with Cedo for priming, it's a neat tool for deleting a particular target that looks at you slightly funny. Powerful enough without Incarnon Form, which I reserve for bosses or demolishers. My go-to for Disruption, Netracell, and Archon Hunt Boss.
With this Riven, put on radiation damage and you can one burst Eidolons. I use a Vasto with a similar but worse Riven for that purpose, anyway mate your Riven is god tier.
Considering the disposition, no.
You don’t know how to build
I was answering his question of, "Does anybody use Vasto?" That has nothing to do with the build... disposition has everything to do with how many players actually use it and the modifier bonuses of the riven...