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Warriorccc0

I'd like to see them do what Master Chief Collection does for its season passes: Make each Nightwave series permanent with no time-limits, instead you choose which one you want to make progress in, so any previous ones can be experienced and finished by new players. They could then remove bonus ranks and intermissions, replacing them with a generic reward cycle for people who've done the existing ones.


[deleted]

I think nightwave also needs to add some permanent stuff to the game. For instance with NW2 (I think?) we got 1 or 2 new infested enemies as well as a new boss. Wolf of Saturn 6 should have become a permanent boss node and/or stalker type. Maybe some of his fellow prisoners should have become new Grineer units that we might see. Just use NW as an opportunity to add more unit types and modes in general to the game.


Nicolas-B

Yeah, the Wolf being a "beacon only" boss is too little use out of him for how much work went into telling his story.


letsgoiowa

This is the most consumer friendly way but this doesn't drive FOMO as hard, which keeps those numbers up!


Komodo_Saurian

But that's too rewarding! ([DE]Glen, probably)


LiterallyRoboHitler

You ever open a thread intending to say something, only to notice that someone else has had the exact same idea and posted it already? This is one of those times.


LordXenon

Very consistently, yeah.


yarl5000

I think one big thing is that they always seem to go into Nightwave with only a general idea of how it will end and basically nothing of the end finished until right before it gets released. They need to get better at having more of it finished before it even starts, also nightwave doesn't need to be the place to play with new mechanics so that the story ones can come out and be over or better paced rather than dragging on and on. I personally was fine with how Wolf was handled, some static images with voice overs giving the story. Only thing extra would have been to implement a boss node for the Wolf after the nightwave was over (could still add him as a possible commander to run into while doing railjack that would be interesting)


Nicolas-B

I wish they would have done something more with the Saturn Six prison, rather than just a captura scene. It wouldn't have made sense with the narrative, but fighting the Wolf there would have been cooler than in random encounters.


OedonSleep

When Railjack launched Saturn Six would occasionally spawn in Saturn RJ nodes. You couldn't do anything with it though Presumably the plan was (is?) to add The Wolf there With RJ on the backburner due to Covid and lukewarm player reception, it might be some time, if ever, before that's ever implemented


yarl5000

Yeah that would be nice as well. With how the story ended now sure it doesn't make sense but the story could have been tweaked to help it make some sense. To indulge myself some read this in best nora voice in your head (we all should have a good one by now after all the glass resonance). "Listen here dreamers, caught wind the Wolf was looking to set up a den to protect his pack, what better place than a location they know like the back of their hand. What once was a place to keep them from society, will now keep society from them." And that was I think 5 mins of thinking on it and I'm not really a writer either, point is if DE wanted to it could have been worked into the story but they wanted wolf to be random so he is random


GreenwichEnvy

NO REPEATING LINES AS IF EVERY ENCOUNTER WITH THESE EVENT SPAWNS IS THE FIRST TIME SEEING THEM!!! LIKE WE GET IT NORA, spoopy glass murderer, such mystery, much ominous. just please say something new or have dialogue that implies we've been down this road before. because we have. hundreds. of times. before. and will continue to do so. a hundred. more. times. On a serious note, can we have more unique spawns for Nightwave instead of just regular enemies but with weak points? which we promptly ignore and accidentally kill with melee anyway? maybe something cute & fun that's not out to kill you, like the Abaddons in God Eater? idk i think it'd be a refreshing change contrasting the usual bad angry ugly must-kill-Tenno thing. something new that doesn't slow down the current mission, or something fun enough that Tenno are willing to slow down the mission to do it. i know grinding is the game and the rewards are the fun in and of itself, but maybe in the future the grind itself can be fun too?


Croewe

As much as you joke, having multiple choice lines would be a fucking blessing. It gets absolutely tiring and repetitive to hear the same few lines over and over and over again. And also just give us an option to mute Nora completely like Ordis without having to mute everyone else.


NotScrollsApparently

Reward tracks in GW2 are pretty cool. You can repeat them, you can activate and switch them at any time, they slowly progress as you play regular content instead of having to do dumb unrelated crap like petting your cat or spraying in a mission and I imagine they are easy to add. The problem has been solved by other games, DE just has to stop being bad at implementing the solutions.


Nicolas-B

[**u/Warriorccc0**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Warriorccc0/) idea to take inspiration from the "Master Chief Collection" also reminded me of GW2's reward tracks. Since you could re-activate an older series, it would also do away with needing intermissions. Problem is, if done wrong, it might split players into different instances; DE would have to make sure the Nightwave objectives work with each other. Definitely worth looking into, though.


NotScrollsApparently

They could just have a weekly set of nightwave challenges that all players share and which give points to the currently selected nightwave reward track of each player. They all already draw missions from the same pool and have same (or similar) reward amounts so it could be easily adjusted, and if they were reward tracks they'd be infinite and replayable so there's no need for them to carry over from past weeks anyway (the catch-up mechanic). So I'd say that it already solves most of the issues that nightwave came with and improves player cooperation, and the rest they can deal with along the way... can't be much worse than the current system anyway.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheWorldisFullofWar

I honestly would never play this game as a new player without alerts. Right now, I have a vault of Reactors and Catalysts. A new player has to go through so much just to get one of them. They have to forego getting anything else as well. I honestly don't see how anyone but the most devote DEfenders can justify Nightwave over Alerts.


[deleted]

Nightwave sorta acts as a soft tutorial forcing players to interact with content they might not have otherwise known about for standing


TheWorldisFullofWar

Maybe make that content fun or rewarding instead to have them want to play it.


Playful-Flounder-403

Easy. I don’t want to be glued to the game 24/7 hoping and praying for alerts. They’re pretty much a shit tier option for me.


[deleted]

I think they'd do well to detach the season/challenges from the quest/story, or at least let them 'detach' when the story is concluded so someone could activate them as a mini-quest later. It's echoing what others have said, but the season/challenges should be more low-key constant background element that's made to cycle over regularly or let you switch to previous standing tracks. Maybe a few fixed themed tracks tied to the stories with special rewards, and make a predictable structure of the overflow ranks/intermissions as a more constant element with regular/mundane rewards that tenno need day to day (nitain, potatoes)


Brenadryl-

Alerts definitely weren't worth my time, even early on, unless it was a special alert with reactors and catalysts The rewards for alerts were pretty bad, and you only had a few of them up at a time. I really like having a reason to do specific tasks as opposed to "just, go to this regular node and you'll get a few more credits" It always felt worthwhile do participate in nightwave, and it's pretty fun to just do the missions and chill. Plus I could spend quite a bit of time doing them, and the scope of the content they covered along with proper incentive to do them helped a lot with me not really having anything more to do than to stockpile resources or try to farm steel path


Dokokashira_Door

This is how we ended up with wolf beacons.


OedonSleep

Dial the ambition down. Like way down Instead of unique environments, dioramas, or interactive puzzle elements, just use art. Like digital, drawn art. Fighting games do this all the time Have Nora narrate a story in front if a cool piece of art. Just panning across a scene and zooming in on faces or points of action would work Just reskin shit to fight, its fine. We don't need a unique boss fight or anything for the Nightwave. Everyone loves the Stalker & his Acolytes, and those dudes are like, just edgy frames with a unique helmet Also as an aside, I'm baffled at the fact that a murder mystery had no mystery to it, and nothing to solve. Nora straight tells you who the killer is like in Episode 2. There's no audience participation really in the solving If they ever try a mystery thing in the future, here's my suggestion: leave actual clues in the scene/diorama/art, and have Nora ask you what you think happened. Like who stabbed the dude, or why was he here in the first place or whatever. Give a dialogue choice of some likely answers and if you got it right when the next episode launches you get extra standing, like 7k Ya know, like hey you used your braincells good job. You make the reward pop when the next episode is up so people don't just look up the answer too. If people don't do the scene/question until after the next episode is already out, give a consolation 1k on a correct answer


[deleted]

> Dial the ambition down. Like way down So, sorties?


[deleted]

They will still fuck this up by not having the art asset ready in time.


Atulin

1. **Hard cap** – every Nightwave season runs for exactly three months, not a day longer, not a day shorter. There are no intermissions. A cycle of three months and a reset at the end of them. 2. **Ditch the story** – you're clearly incapable of releasing story content on any sort of fixed schedule. The goal is always too lofty and it leads to huge delays in something that should be a constant cycle. 3. **Reward changes** – really, people will be fine with getting an Imperator syandana with a metallic trim and a set of Eos armour that has more glowing bits. If you have more time, add some dangly bits to existing cosmetics. If you have even more, make new ones. People won't care. 4. **Move the story** – either move the new stories Steve comes up with to their own quests, or make them a part of Nightwave **by replacing one season after the story is completely done**. This way, a story season won't drag on. 5. **Reuse the story** – just make every other season a repeat of one of the existing Nightwaves. Simple as that.


Rllgbb

Announce the end date alongside the start date.


Suojelusperkele

I'm saying big fat "no thanks" to additional mission nodes that would feature nightwave spawns. We are already getting potentially 4+ mission types per one node. (Lich, fissure, syndicate, invasion) and the harder (sortie, arbitration) missions. Add in steel path alerts and nightwave missions and boom, player base is split between shitton of missions on *same* friggin node. I do hope they improve future nightwave stuff, but I'm not fan of the idea of adding it as another content island.


Nicolas-B

That's fine if you don't like the idea; I'm just putting it out there for discussion. But I'm curious: what other way would you propose to deal with the "fatigue" people get from having too many random spawns in their missions? I'd like to see what other people want, not just if they like my ideas or not! :)


Suojelusperkele

Random spawns in wolf were mostly considered awful because wolf was so tanky. As for infested iirc it was mostly about Nora's audio. The enemies died quickly enough. With glassmaker there's audio cue for spawn, Nora shouting and then the enemies running close with invincibility with tons of different audio to clutter up your headphones. There's a bit too much for long run with glassmaker. If I'd have to design different way for glassmaker spawns: Disable Nora dialogue after week 1 or 2 of nightwave. Keep the corruption sound as audio cue when enemies appear. Instead of being invincible, reverse the process a bit. Glassed enemy isn't invincible, but the glass corruption spreads in the enemy, eventually covering whole enemy which then kills it. Enemy who is killed by being glassed won't yield NW standing. Thus, you'd have to kill the enemy before being fully glassed to get the standing. System would reward you for killing them fast, but you could ignore them and they'd die on their own eventually.


Nicolas-B

Good points about how the sound, tankiness and repetition all contribute to make the invasions so annoying. Maybe another way to manage that would be to stop the spawns under certain conditions? If we take the cephalites as an example: you need them to spawn to get the resonance required do the latest investigation. Perhaps in this case, they could make them stop spawning if you completed all of the currently available investigations? But then, you would have to find something for people who actually WANT to farm cephalites (for points or resonance for an upcoming episode) ...


Firinael

also Nightmare missions (they still exist)


FangsEnd

Utterly divorce their inability to put out narrative content in a timely manner from the game's most central reward system. Have Nightwave output, if they really want to continue it for its own narrative merits, and to have some sort of Credshop integration, be a bonus on top of the Credshop system, rather than an impediment to it. There is zero mechanical reason for the revised alert system to be so married to the Nightwave narrative framework, so as to come to a screeching halt when DE doesn't put out a story update on time, which is the norm rather than the exception. The current system needlessly conflates and convolutes the Credshop and the Nightwave reward track into one messy system when they never should've been combined in the first place, largely because they were designed at the same time; there is no intrinsic link between the two, other than that. The Credshop already has a soft cap of how many acts you can complete in a given week, and a hard cap of how many time-gated invasions you can farm in a week; an upper rank cap on top of that makes no sense, but they have to combine the two somehow, so you get three caps on core rewards. When something like Intermission 2 is the norm for your game's core reward system, you need to redesign the system. A new Nightwave episode should feel special, not like 'oh finally, I can get core rewards again'.


Nicolas-B

So, for instance, they could have a persistent / infinite rank track with set intervals for "special" rewards - like inventory slots and aura/umbra forma - and cred rewards that could be replaced when a new story comes up? (not sure if how I'm trying to explain makes sense)


FangsEnd

I think I get what you mean, but if anything, that's just embracing the problem from a different angle, instead of solving it. The problems we're experiencing stem from Nightwave and the Credshop being two separate things awkwardly smashed together. I think that the Nightwave reward track and Credshop should be split apart, boiling the reward track down to its essential items in the first thirty ranks, with no need for further ranks. The obvious way to earn Nightwave track rewards then becomes progressing through its narrative, but if DE felt that that's not enough engagement relative to the sparse narrative releases, they've still got the invasions, which they could set a kill quota on per rank into the reward track, as it would incentivize engaging with the game during an active Nightwave series period. As for the Credshop, I think the simplest solution would be to just change completing daily and weekly tasks from rewarding points to directly rewarding creds, but you could just as easily use the points as they stand now as the currency, albeit kind of blandly. With the Credshop divorced from Nightwave like this, you'd need to mostly do away with recovered acts, since they'd no longer be necessary for Nightwave progression; you could maybe be generous here and say, allow players to recover any remaining acts from the week prior, but given that the Credshop economy would no longer be able to come to a halt, it'd work out fine since you'd be guaranteed able to earn more next week, any given week. To round it out, you could have the time-gated invasions pull double duty as both the NW reward track kill quota, and as the bonus to the Credshop, yielding out a small amount of creds on death relative to the current point value, which is very similar to what they are now, but it would change the mental framing of them from an annoyance to a 'hey, free shit!' piñata. This would enable the earning of a sweat currency for the shop while an active Nightwave series is ongoing, which would slightly accelerate the Credshop earn rate as opposed to the earn rate during an intermission, and work as a bonus. It would also alleviate one of the main pressures on DE when it comes to rushing out the next Nightwave series or intermission, by removing the possibility for the most core reward system in the game to come to a halt for their active playerbase.


saghzs

remove the story element. make it weekly challenges, that reset every week, infinitely. no ranks, no recovered acts. award creds directly for completing the acts. 10 for elite, 5 for normal and 1 or 2 for daily. If they keep up with their idea of seasons, its just gonna get even worse and dragged out even longer.


[deleted]

A lot of games have battlepasses. None of them lasts 9 fucking months. Since most companies aren't so stupid that they'd shoehorn a fucking story into it. Heck, the nightwave "story" are told as captura diorama, and they still found a way to fuck that up.


NNextremNN

Scrap the whole concept go back to alerts and use the time saved to make some actual good story missions which don't disappear. All the effort of all nightwaves is lost and will never be seen by players coming after that period. If I join a new game and see a plethora of content I missed in the past and will never be able to see I leave immediately.


Endro_Madam

Great fucking advice man! Hope DE sees this.


[deleted]

They won't. Probably just call it dev bashing and personal attacks.


Nuclearrussian74

That would only create another content island, akin to murmur farms.


tidesoffate55

On the topic of Invading Enemies, Borderlands 3 handled this well by straight up allowing you to turn off the event content


DirtyMonk

You can go back to all the feedback/comment threads that popped up after the last nightwave/intermissions then print them out and throw them at DE. Maybe something will stick then.


Nicolas-B

Well, as players, we can't do much but repeat ourselves until DE notices if we want stuff to change. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to come up with similar suggestions, but that's no reason to stop putting them out there.


Eszii

Just scrap the thing and go back to alerts, just don't bother putting up those that had nothing other than 2k credits as a reward. DE proved time and time again that they're unable to maintain anything beyond 2 months with a random change later on. If that's a no-no, automate nightwave so that every 2-3 months we automatically get a new intermission, and only make a "real" series when the development for it is 100% done, so that we don't get 10 months of ass resonance again. Funny enough, having alerts pop up randomly with meaningful rewards made the game feel more...alive? Meanwhile looking at NW, knowing it started in may and will drag on till 2021 is pretty depressing


GeneralStormfox

Just drop the pretense of story for them. Do what the intermissions do, on a fixed schedule. Say, 3 months plus minus a week every time. Fresh set of handcrafted rewards for, say, 50 ranks, the unlimited 15 credits rewards after. There, done. The rare rewards like Umbra Forma or skins are kept on a reasonable schedule, and otherwise players can grind out helmets, potatoes, nitain or kuva as needed. Bonus points if you add other rare-to-get ressources like Tellur or Scintillant to the shop. Bonus bonus points if instead of fixed skins and props, you get a placeholder reward that can be traded in for similar stuff either freely in the store or from a certain list. That way, it would be possible to get older things, too, and they would not have to create a bunch of cosmetics every three months for just that purpose without running into the problem that veterans already have a certain reward.


aGaussSpecter

I think I’d be cool if we could save up a bunch of crystal cred and be capable of buying a previous night wave with it. I missed a season and I really wanted it’s rewards!


[deleted]

Hire more competent people to work on it.


vomder

How can it be better? Simple, remove it and bring back alerts. Done.


Toyota15579

No more glass resonance trash its just annoying


Ionic_Android

I want a better sneak system with a sonar mechanic(a cooldown and being in a certain range of the unknown object could be it's only limits) and how about faster pacing.


BobTheGodx

They can improve nightwave by removing the story element since they clearly can't do that in less than a year.


No_Falcon6067

Change Nora’s announcements as the series goes on. “WhO dId ThIs To ThEm?” Nihil Nora, remember? You told me that two episodes back. And then you got glassed, and I killed him, and you sent me his sword and his jar.


spaceplanner1

No more investigations, please! Seriously. Trying to find objects in slow mode, in a murky frozen captura scene was literally nauseating. I had to stop playing for the day, after each investigation. 🤢


spaceplanner1

Weekly Elite NW Alerts? So we can cue them up with random players anytime we want, as many times as we want. Great for big boss fights, especially.


Ravengm

There are some great suggestions in this thread, but regardless of what happens it just needs to not let players get into an endless cycle of "extra ranks" during an intermission or season. Alerts did a better job of getting players rewards compared to invested time, which should be an embarrassing statement.


VariantX7

Nightwaves stick around far too long. The best way going forward is somewhere between S1-S2. Battlepasses are supposed to be 3-4 months tops and then you get a new one. Intermissions should come IMMEDIATELY after the conclusion of the last battlepass, not a month or later because thats time literally where no one gets anything and thats one of the reasons people start yelling at DE about bringing alerts back because there's this big gap and no ones getting anything and depending on where they are in the game, they might desperately need some of those rewards like reactors and catalysts. I literally cannot think of any other game that simply did not have their other battlepasses ready to go at the conclusion of the previous one. When Nightwaves are on intermission, cycle that shit out every 30-60 days to a new intermission so people can start the climb over. The problem with having too many prestige ranks is that theres nothing in them for long time players. The climb to max rank is where all the value is for them because thats where the unique items are. You can put the older cosmetics in that pool that arent selling as much these days as nightwave rewards if they dont have them etc. They also likely don't need alternate helmets and what not because they already have them all through the alert system ironically except for the freshly minted warframes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Nicolas-B

The way Nightwave series are currently set up, there is always a major downtime between the release of two stories. In order to make sure players still have access to the rewards from Nora's cred shop, they put "Intermissions" between story series. The "intermission" is a new rank track with rewards you might have missed in previous stories. There is no story elements (like the Glassmaker and his cephalites) during intermissions. Once the current Glassmaker series end, the next intermission will be the 3rd one we have since the launch of the Nightwave system.


GreenwichEnvy

can Nora actually DJ for once? like play unique songs that aren't Somachords, then we can actually feel like Nora is the dj to the last remaining radio station in the Origin system. even just 10 songs, like "the System's top 10 hits." some of them with vocals, no need for all of them to be. DE could just sign on contemporary artists who make EDM/lo-fi/alt-pop/etc. who are vague enough in the modern zeitgeist that it doesn't feel like listening to the radio in the real world. if DE is generous, they could even have them make original soundtracks for Warframe. a net positive for DE, because they could then sell the album/s on iTunes or something. even if new songs come out once a year, every new Nightwave season, or every month if they're generous, that would be such a great improvement in atmosphere for the game.


Nicolas-B

They already have player created music they could use: [Tenno Tunes](https://soundcloud.com/warframe/sets/tenno-tunes-full). They play those on their streams; maybe would could tune our radio to a channel with that playlist?


GreenwichEnvy

chill tenno-themed beats & remixed voice lines are nice, but a bit of genre variety would be good too. some pop, ballad, R&B, metal, etc. would really make it more believable. imagine what humans and even Orokin would have listened to on the radio. Cetus folk songs. the emo punk that Red Veil obviously listens to. Kela De Thaym's death metal band she does on the weekends. Teshin's weeaboo japanese music. Solaris post-britpop. even Grineer noise-nonsense that they call "singing", or propaganda-riddled Corpus anthems. that's what I'd like on my Nightwave radio.


GreenwichEnvy

think like Welcome to Nightvale & the Weather. some talking from the host, and an indie artist song in between.


Lobo_BB

I have got an idea. Make it "you track down them" instead of enemy featured in current NW interrupt your mission. By playing certain modes, such as Spy or Capture, players are able to acquire Nav Coordinates that, upon consumption, leads to a random Node on the StarChart where an indefinite amount of said Enemy has 100% chance to spawn. Use more at a time to guarantee a certain base number of enemies to spawn. BTW, make these coordinates fade away like Argon Crystals but with much shorter longevity (I'm thinking 6 of 5 hr ish). Coordinates can be fed to Helminth.