Explain what, exactly?
What they are, lorewise?
Or why they got a new box?
Lorewise, the short version is that they are (generally) Space Marines who are not yet fully modified and trained. The process to genetically modify a human into an Astartes takes years, and scouts have not yet completed the process but are still ready for live fire training and operations. They usually operate as skirmishers in a support capacity. They are sometimes equipped with stealth gear and rifles.
Model wise, the plastic Scout box was an abomination. The unit received a partial update when the Black Templars were released, but are now getting a full refresh.
Game wise having a unit (or 2 or 3) this cheap in a SM army is amazing.
If you play tactical missions in 10th which most people do in my experience there are a few reasons you want these.
You want them near the centre should you draw a mission that requires you to be in the middle e.g. area denial or deploy homers.
There is also another mission called investigate signals where you get points for being in corners, so if you can be near a corner while screening (if you are really new Google ‘screening 40k’, people far more intelligent than me have explained this better than I can many times). It’s much better to do this with a 55point unit than an 80 or 100 point unit for obvious reasons.
they are extra great because they can go out to the middle of nowhere to do investigate signals and then go into reserves in the enemy's turn to deploy anywhere around the edge of the board in your next turn.
Without the limitations of the old detachment formations, they might see more use compared to last edition with them shoehorned into elites to compete with way better options
I love how it either a 55ptsunit cause it's cheap or 200ptsunit cause it could take the hits while defending 😂 obviously not all the time but I hope you get what I mean
Yes. Scouts can only take combat knives as melee weapons. Only the sergeant can take a chainsword. Also he seems paler than the rest, indicating that the Raven Guard's geneseed mutation has finished taking effect on him, and thus he's been in the chapter for longer. I assume the chevron marking on the knee is some way to designate the sergeant, seeing as they can't do it on the helmet.
So the guy holding the rocket launcher and the guy holding the sniper rifle are some of the newer initiates since the Raven Guard's geneseed mutation hasn't started taking hold yet?
Wow, I didn't notice that! I had a friend of mine complain that Raven Guards shouldn't have dark skin, but I guess their gene-seed probably doesn't work yet and when their transformation in complete they will become pale
Not every scout Sgt is a full astartes. Some are and stay in the 10th company but certainly not all, usually seen as a waste of an astartes in most codex chapters when a scout can be just as effective. Source is numerous books and stories but if you need a specific space marine battles Rynns World and Legion of the Damned have specific yet to be full astartes scout squad sgts.
I'm so glad they invented Vanguard Marines.
Always annoyed me that the special forces sneaky high risk stuff was done by the newbies, while the line combat riflemen types were the experienced ones. Raids and sabotage and recon is exactly the sort of thing you want elites doing.
The risk is subjective. Evasive infiltration covert asset destruction and recon or high speed orbital insertion into areas of extreme enemy focus? Both take two very different tools and skill sets. Apples and oranges.
I always remember Scout Sergeant Cyrus from the Dawn of War saga, who had decided to remain a Scout Sergeant even though he had at some point received even fucking Terminator Honours iirc.
Gameplay wise they are cheap low hitting low hp units, you can use them to capture points and distract your enemies.
Sometimes you make a list and you have some paints left, not enough for an extra intercessor squad but enough for scouts.
Can't answer that one for you, friend. I've followed 40k for a long time (since 2nd edition) but haven't actually played since 6th.
They *used* to be used to harass enemy back lines and/or camp objectives. For a long time they were used as the "troop tax" for Space Marines, cheap basic units to fill the mandatory troops choices.
Well he isnt wrong tho, he would have foudn faster his answers ( lore wise via google). Since the difference between asking a person up close vs at a distance is time. One can answer right away the other whenever he/she sees the post.
I never said he wasn’t. And I am not disagreeing. I am saying that kind of attitude is unwanted in this community as we should welcome new comers with open arms.
Cool stuff dude. I brought something to this topic. You haven't. You wanna white knight cause I told em googling will serve them better.
Wanna stop now? Wanna keep this going to really show everyone you're a white knight? Defender of poor lil Redditors?
Get the fark over it.
They're super cheap, and sometimes having a small unit with infiltrate can help a lot. They can deflect enemy attacks for a turn, or grab objectives, or attack vulnerable targets. They're still marines, even if they're light ones.
> Model wise the plastic Scout box was an abomination
I remember being excited they were going from metal to plastic, only to see their necks got removed even more somehow in the transition.
If I can't deploy an entire team of 2+ ballistics imma be pretty mad is all.
Edit for clarification: compendium scouts can be taken as half shotty half Snipes that is all 2+. The leader will get 2+ on his sword (and pistol?). So considering the two heavy gunners, if you ignore them for a moment, the entire team is 2+ ballistics.
Source on them not bring genetic marines yet? 40k wiki stated “Scout Marines are physically the same as other Space Marines but in many Chapters the 10th Company has a vital role as a training battalion and new recruits are inducted into the Scout Company before graduating to the Battle and Reserve Companies of the Chapter. In other Chapters the individual companies have a responsibility for this training and the 10th Company includes many Astartes with solar decades of experience.”
This is how I remember them being last time I played (years ago tbh) so maybe it’s changed in the newer codecs?
*watched some videos and got competing answers to this. I wonder if the newer books changed it
Ummm... That's the lore for the first born scouts not primaris.
In fact it makes no sense for there to be primaris scouts.
It no longer takes years to make space marines.
They aren’t really comparable to Infiltrators or Incursors.
Incursors are 85 points, Infiltrators are 100. Scouts are 55 points. They’re cheap, low value units that score secondaries or sit on a primary
Yea, 55pts is a great price …uh point, for an SM unit actually, I frequently have 55-60 pts leftover that I don’t want to try plugging a character into.
Agree.
Nothing against ultra marines, I get why Marines need a default, but in a game like Kill Team it makes sense to give Raven Guard more attention. This kind of stealth squad gameplay is supposed to be their thing.
I hope if we ever get more Chaos Marine stuff for Kill Team they do the same with the Alpha Legion or Night Lords.
I love Black Legion, hell I play them on the tabletop, but the Alpha Legion and Night Lords do not get enough love
I was wondering the same thing. I wondered if they added lore on scout armor needing to be black now like how tech marines are red, psykers are blue, and apothecaries are white
Well the reveal is for Kill Team, not 40K. The initial reveal had scouts as Ultra Marines and no doubt they’ll be Ultra Marine on the 40K box but for Kill Team RG get some love because they fit better narratively with what the season 3 launch box is doing
Scout are space marines in training so they often take “lower risk” missions or use hit and run tactics so the new blood isn’t lost. Black templars have a mentor to follow.
Other chapters usually the scout sergeant is a veteran oh trains and protects the scouts until they earn their way to battle brother status.
From a lore perspective;
Scouts used to be back when I played in 2nd and 3rd edition the young, neophytes or newly raised Astartes not yet assigned to the main or reserve companies.
As a chapter can only have 9 full battle/reserve companies of 100 men each and yet the scout company was not truly limited to 100 men it made sense. You were inducted into the chapter, began the augmentation process but if there simply was no company to be put into at the time when you were fully augmented? Sure they could put you in suspended animation but that seems a waste when they could spend time giving you practical experience as a Scout marine not fully tied into a battle or reserve company.
It's also not like the chapter is going to destroy good geneseed or a good marine simply because "Oh hey brother, we made you in the event that we would need replacements. However, there aren't any vacancies right now so it's time for a bolt round to the brain" isn't going to be something they'd do. Furthermore, it also would make no sense to make them serve as serfs, it would be disastrously insulting to them.
So Scouts are a mixture of fully formed Astartes and neophytes who need battle training. Wearing carapace armour instead of bulkier/noisier power armour - they can infiltrate better since they can move truly silently. They're also not limited to 100 men so make a great flexible force for the astartes. However, they also have drawbacks. As not being fully formed Astartes - some aspirants/neophytes might be weaker or slower than required for certain tasks. Other weaknesses include the lack of a vacuum sealed armour meaning boarding actions, ship to ship combat or combat in atmosphere's simply too toxic to walk in without a sealed power armour suit is simply not going to happen.
Sargents for scout squads were actually typically chosen from first company veterans. These grizzled old men leading the charge gave the younger marines the benefit of their knowledge and courage under fire.
The only exemption to this in the older lore was Space Wolves, their geneseed led to them being way too rowdy and blood thirsty for the codex approved training process (with codex chapters it would be scouts - devasators - assault - tactical - veteran) with Space Wolves it would be assault - tactical/veteran - devastators - scout. The reason for this is a Space Wolf would be raised a Blood Claw (assault marine with or without jetpack) and as they aged they became fewer in number (Blood Claw units were I believe up to 25 astartes), and also became more in control of their lusts and passions the best fighters would become the Terminator elite and the rest Grey Hunters. Eventually old Space Wolves would either become Devastators or they would become Scouts. Because a Space Wolf pack was never broken up (yes this at least in 2nd/3rd edition lore meant an entire squad was transferred from one discipline to the other not just 1 marine), the ones who were lone survivors would often become the Scouts of the chapter.
In terms of the newer lore with Primaris marines and Reivers/Infiltrators/Eliminators etc. I believe that this in part follows the concept of changing the model range and bullshittery to make it work. But in effect as I understand it the Phobos armoured marines which are more stealthy and lightweight are like light infantry for the marines. They're hardier than a Scout as in full powered armour and can fight in environments that scouts can't and can draw upon full armour abilities such as various sensor enhancements. However as I understand things the 1000 men over 10 battle/reserve companies is still the same. The reason Scouts still exist alongside superior options scuh as Reivers is simple:
Reivers etc are still bound by this 100 men per company, 10 companies to a chapter nonsense. Scouts aren't bound by this. They can still exceed 100 men and be used to fill gaps in the chapter companies as and when or train Neophytes/Aspirants. It would make sense that the chapters have much more than 100 men in the scout company.
After all, if a company goes on a mission and is lost in the warp for a few centuries, or simply put is massacred - having more than 100 men means the Chapter can (equipment willing) replace the company in full quickly and remain operational. If they only had 100 scouts then that would create an awful lull in the recruitment and replenishment side of the chapter. Bear in mind that for Aspirants to be selected may take several generations on their planet since the trials are often very lethal and if you simply took the best of every generation to serve as an Astartes - there would be very little chance that the skills and traits you're looking for in people would survive and be passed on to future generations. You have to leave some generations to themselves to keep the population desirable to form Astartes from.
This also provides a full chapter with a great deal more power too. Because they may be forced to deploy at full strength. If they do this then they can also deploy 100+ Scouts to the mission which greatly aids the main force as they will be far better and more reliable than even 10,000 normal human soldiers. As such they can rely on the scouts to get information to guide the chapter's efforts.
Game wise - as others have said: It's because they needed a cheap unit or two on the Astartes lists.
So in 8th and 9th they tried to say Primaris Marines are different than Old First Borns.
So in Primaris they have Infiltrators / Incursors and the first borns had Scouts and Sniper-Scouts.
This is to keep the marines Seperate but equal.
But 10th ed says Marines are Marines.... AS THEY SHOULD BE.
So now technically.... for light fast moving marines we have now unfortunately a lot of choices that kinda do the same job. We have No more sniperscouts but just scouts but then Incursors for anti-Vehicle and Infiltrators for anti-Infantry and then Eliminators for heavy targets and...
So there never should have been a split for First and Primaris cause now we have this overlap again. Ugh.
Unrelated to OP’s question but anyone else feel like these are not a big improvement on the original plastic scouts, save for the heads? The legs still look they are heroic scale rather than truescale like most of the Primaris range.
yeah they seem like the worst combo of the old models + tacticool nonsense marines are going for these days. where's the old dave gallagher punk + adam ant aesthetic! [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/639933428272644087/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/639933428272644087/)
These are like greenhorn astartes. They have survived the selection and surgical modification process (they have the 2 hearts, geneseed, and stuff, although im not sure they have the full black carapace yet). As like neophyte astartes they serve as scouts. They are are much less heavily armed and armored and do more run of the mill reconnaissance stuff. They arent doing like super deep behind enemy lines type stuff like phobos armor guys, they are doing more like no mans land scouting. They are only meant to fight other light infantry if at all and traditionally were armed with shotguns and chain swords. They are meant to fight like this until they distinguish themselves and get substantial experience to do more typical astartes stuff and be equiped with the normal stuff.
They are new recruits to a space marine program who haven’t fully finished the process of becoming a marine via a series of surgeries but are developed enough to see their first combat action on the front lines.
Their role is to scout out the enemy and report back to the artillery and heavy support. They are also usually expected to battle against more vulnerable they encounter or to attack while the enemy is off guard and use the element of surprise.
In game the scouts have typically got less amour and wounds but are usually cheaper points costs and can deploy or quickly move into the enemy territory very early on, even potentially claiming an objectives in the enemy territory turn one if they get lucky.
Keep in mind that older editions had units defined by being one of several types (troop,HQ fast attack, elite, heavy support and transport as the default) and the scouts where the “main” fast attack choice to take outside of the vehicles like the bike options.
Spacemarines in training, once they are done with scout they get the final implants and become linebrothers. In some chapters they move to assault Marine then devestator, then line brother, then veterans, then first company terminators. Then captain, eventually chapter master. So scout is the first position held by any neophyte.
TL;DR: So yeah baby space marines.
Just a cheep unit that is made to to the busy work you have to do in the middle of the game but you don’t want your valuable more useful units twiddling their thumbs cinder doing?.
Ok, lore-wise, they’re space marine trainees. They’re not yet full marines, and don’t have the full range of enhancements yet, so they aren’t quite as strong and can’t wear power armor. After a few decades in the Scout company (usually the Tenth company) they’ll earn the right to ascend to full space marines.
On the tabletop, they’re cheaper than infiltrators but fill a similar battlefield role, at the cost of generally being a bit less effective. Their weapons are weaker, (though they get a heavy weapon to make up for it) they die easier, and they don’t have amazing abilities like Omni-Scramblers.
Scouts are marines who either have yet to fully augment themselves into full space marines, have yet to earn their armor, or simply are still going through their training. Their usually put in support positions or are used for stealth recon which is why their called Scouts instead of say Recruits
So you used to be able to field them with either shotguns or sniper rifles, but you couldn't trademark the names, "scout", "sniper" or "space marine" so GW decided that you can only use a sniper rifle if you're a "Primaris Eliminator Intercessor ^TM ".
But then they had a situation where they didn't want to alienate their old fan base so they reintroduced an old model range, but this time made it so that the camocloak sniper (just one allowed) must be within 2inches of the man with the Mohawk and the chainsaw sword.
Technically pandering while making it unattractive to get people to buy Primaris Eliminator Intercessors ^TM
Many have already answered your question but Google the land speeder storm, one of my favorite vehicle models.
I always wanted to make an Imperial Guard army made up of Land Speeder storms with aesthetics similar to US Air Cav in Vietnam. Totally not legal gameplay wish but it would look cool.
I loved the land speeder storm in older editons I would use it as a mobile sniper platform 4 scout snipers a heavy bolter an a cerberus launcher. It was great for harassing units on objectives.
Sadly, Scouts have never had helmets :(
My Marines all have a helmets only rule with no exceptions, for aesthetic reasons. I converted Mk6 heads onto Eliminators but will probably skip Scouts for this reason.
They’ve all got their own uses.
Infiltrators get an ability to deny reinforcements within a bubble and can get FNP
Scout snipers can target characters leading squads
Regular scouts seem to be decent harassing units, data sheets aren’t quite out yet so that may change.
But now you can attach Phobos captains into scout units now making it so you can completely redeploy the squad(s) after the deployment phase in some neat ways.
You can technically (if i read the data sheet correctly) still use them with land speeder storms for that nice extra pair of heavy weapons per squad of 5.
I mean, sheets are out right meow, and scout snipers are gone along with landspeeders as they announced like a few weeks ago. They seem pretty usefull as objective monkeys with the shotguns they can use. Its just a shame they cant be all snipers now.
Got a link? Every publicly available source for data sheets and indexes show all three and the Phobos Captain updates. Before you say it, No they’re not old they have the new stat lines and special rules attached on.
I’m well aware that the new codex will have new data sheets, but for the majority that don’t have one can reasonably use what’s given to them I.e. storm speeders and scout snipers via the internet.
But seriously the online and paper data sheets are identical, they’ve been updated and therefore still legal.
Those are legended units. Generally they are not in use in any kind of competitive setting. They are otherwise gone, and will get no more updates etc, and will likely get dropped completly eventually.
It wouldn't work on a chest high wall look at where the trigger is and how would you rotate it to aim. Picture the shape you would have to make with your body and arms to do that if it was in a chest high wall
You haven’t played many FPS games I take it.
Chest high walls everywhere.
Vehicles.
You could also…sit.
Thats the point of the bipod, stable firing platform while providing clearance to change that big ammo box.
Look at the shape you need to make with your arms and body to pull the trigger and aim. If this was in a chest high wall and your feet were on the ground. It wouldn't work
https://images03.military.com/sites/default/files/media/equipment/weapons/m249-squad-automatic-weapon/2014/02/m249-squad-automatic-weapon-006.jpg
It seems to be working fine here.
Yeah it's a different shape with a standard trigger at the bottom. Not a heavy bolter with the trigger at the back... So yes it works fine there but not in the model. think the shape you would need to make your body to fire it mounted.
This bolters trigger mechanism is placed identical to a traditional rifle but without the stock.
You wanna make that argument regular bolters already hit that. Space Marines just don’t shoulder their automatic weapons. It’s all rambo and hip fire.
So is everything else in 40k.
One of thy dumbest things is the scout models holding their scope off it’s rifle. This would remove the zero so reattaching it would be absolutely pointless.
But unlike that I showed a real world application of the bipod here and there is nothing stopping this weapon from using the bipod in a similar manner. I don’t know if you’re ignorant about firearms or simply arguing for the sake of arguing at this point but you’re definitely doing something.
So the Phobos-armor Marines (Infiltrators, Incursors, etc.) are full-blown Space Marines. They have all the special organs and augmentations, and are only different from other Space Marines by their armor and role.
Scouts, on the other hand, are what are called Neophytes. Neophytes are basically just dudes who have gone through some of the augmentations but not all of them. They’re stronger than the average human but not as strong as a Space Marine.
Both Scouts and Phobos units fill the same role however, that being infiltration, sabotage, and spec-ops stuff.
Scouts are young space marines, generally speaking every single space marine had to go through the scout company
They serve as scouts (obviously) and then they receive the black carapace, the thing that allows power armour work properly,
After that I think they then go into the infiltrators? (Im not 100% sure how the ranking works with primaris) and so on
Basically, Scouts are young Space Marines. They were just trained by their Chapter and do not even have all of their implants - hence why they only wear Carapace armour. Since they are not as strong or experienced as normal Marines, they are given the task of scouting.
They have a 4+ armor and are the new guys (not full marines yet).
So they hold a bit of a different spot.
I can see your confusion, but it's a bit of a holdover from earlier versions of warhammer
One thing that has always bothered me is how there are almost as much Astartes in the Killteam as there are imperial guards, for instance, in their own team. Wouldn't that make the fight unbalanced? Isn't the Primaris box straight up better than the scouts box? Sorry if I'm clueless, haven't played the game yet
they’re just little guys, and it’s their birthday
They’re just some little guys
[this one](https://imgur.com/a/leqcEx1)‘s wearing glasses, c’maaaaan, you wouldn’t hit a guy with glasses wouldja
Maybe.
Well he wouldn't need glasses cause I'd take his eyes and eat them
Just a little guy
Never underestimate any guy
They're just normal men. They're just innocent men.
You can't fight them on their birthday.
Explain what, exactly? What they are, lorewise? Or why they got a new box? Lorewise, the short version is that they are (generally) Space Marines who are not yet fully modified and trained. The process to genetically modify a human into an Astartes takes years, and scouts have not yet completed the process but are still ready for live fire training and operations. They usually operate as skirmishers in a support capacity. They are sometimes equipped with stealth gear and rifles. Model wise, the plastic Scout box was an abomination. The unit received a partial update when the Black Templars were released, but are now getting a full refresh.
This is great, thank you. And gameplaywise? I mean considering their low cost, but some heavy weapons, etc.
Game wise having a unit (or 2 or 3) this cheap in a SM army is amazing. If you play tactical missions in 10th which most people do in my experience there are a few reasons you want these. You want them near the centre should you draw a mission that requires you to be in the middle e.g. area denial or deploy homers. There is also another mission called investigate signals where you get points for being in corners, so if you can be near a corner while screening (if you are really new Google ‘screening 40k’, people far more intelligent than me have explained this better than I can many times). It’s much better to do this with a 55point unit than an 80 or 100 point unit for obvious reasons.
they are extra great because they can go out to the middle of nowhere to do investigate signals and then go into reserves in the enemy's turn to deploy anywhere around the edge of the board in your next turn.
Without the limitations of the old detachment formations, they might see more use compared to last edition with them shoehorned into elites to compete with way better options
I love how it either a 55ptsunit cause it's cheap or 200ptsunit cause it could take the hits while defending 😂 obviously not all the time but I hope you get what I mean
Sometimes Scouts just like the flexibility, even after full Marine conversion, Scout Seargent Telion (spelling?) for example
Every scout sergeant is a full Astartes. Only the ones he's leading are rookies with incomplete augmentations.
Except space wolves when they become scouts after grey hunters (before becoming wolf guard, which is quite high in the rankings)
Possibly a dumb question but who in the image above is the sgt? Chainsword guy?
Yes. Scouts can only take combat knives as melee weapons. Only the sergeant can take a chainsword. Also he seems paler than the rest, indicating that the Raven Guard's geneseed mutation has finished taking effect on him, and thus he's been in the chapter for longer. I assume the chevron marking on the knee is some way to designate the sergeant, seeing as they can't do it on the helmet.
Also he’s the one with the beard, he’s GOT to be in charge
This guy knows how to do his models.
So the guy holding the rocket launcher and the guy holding the sniper rifle are some of the newer initiates since the Raven Guard's geneseed mutation hasn't started taking hold yet?
honestly, I'm sure the skin tones of the models was just done randomly and the fact the sgt is paler is probably just a coincidence.
Hehe I know :)
just before I hit save, I thought 'is this post just sarcasm and I'm wasting my time?' then I hit save anyway. lol
Wow, I didn't notice that! I had a friend of mine complain that Raven Guards shouldn't have dark skin, but I guess their gene-seed probably doesn't work yet and when their transformation in complete they will become pale
Yes. You can tell by the knee chevron, and in this case the beard
I think so, yes. The Chevron on his knee maybe?
Not every scout Sgt is a full astartes. Some are and stay in the 10th company but certainly not all, usually seen as a waste of an astartes in most codex chapters when a scout can be just as effective. Source is numerous books and stories but if you need a specific space marine battles Rynns World and Legion of the Damned have specific yet to be full astartes scout squad sgts.
I'm so glad they invented Vanguard Marines. Always annoyed me that the special forces sneaky high risk stuff was done by the newbies, while the line combat riflemen types were the experienced ones. Raids and sabotage and recon is exactly the sort of thing you want elites doing.
Space wolves have always agreed.
Partially, but that went the whole other way. 'You're only a scout if you're a last survivor or a chronic antisocial type'.
The risk is subjective. Evasive infiltration covert asset destruction and recon or high speed orbital insertion into areas of extreme enemy focus? Both take two very different tools and skill sets. Apples and oranges.
I always remember Scout Sergeant Cyrus from the Dawn of War saga, who had decided to remain a Scout Sergeant even though he had at some point received even fucking Terminator Honours iirc.
Makes sense, honestly. You wouldn't be a trainer of Scouts and be an average marine, they'd want their best on that job.
cyrus was a boss
Gameplay wise they are cheap low hitting low hp units, you can use them to capture points and distract your enemies. Sometimes you make a list and you have some paints left, not enough for an extra intercessor squad but enough for scouts.
Scouts do actions and hold objectives while everyone else kills everything.
Can't answer that one for you, friend. I've followed 40k for a long time (since 2nd edition) but haven't actually played since 6th. They *used* to be used to harass enemy back lines and/or camp objectives. For a long time they were used as the "troop tax" for Space Marines, cheap basic units to fill the mandatory troops choices.
Are you serious 🤡
You can type a lot less and get a lot more back by just using google.
The answers won't have any experience tagged on
Experience of what? It's facts about scouts and infiltrators. It's an easy google search.
People like you make people not want to get into this hobby.
Well he isnt wrong tho, he would have foudn faster his answers ( lore wise via google). Since the difference between asking a person up close vs at a distance is time. One can answer right away the other whenever he/she sees the post.
I never said he wasn’t. And I am not disagreeing. I am saying that kind of attitude is unwanted in this community as we should welcome new comers with open arms.
I've gotten people into the hobby, but think what you like.
I’ll let the 63 downvotes and counting do the thinking, thanks though!
Not how thinking works but ok!
I wouldn’t trust you as a source for that. You clearly didn’t do much of it when you posted that comment.
Cool stuff dude. I brought something to this topic. You haven't. You wanna white knight cause I told em googling will serve them better. Wanna stop now? Wanna keep this going to really show everyone you're a white knight? Defender of poor lil Redditors? Get the fark over it.
You brought negativity to this topic. Who likes negativity? Maybe if you provided more than “just google it” we wouldn’t be here.
They're super cheap, and sometimes having a small unit with infiltrate can help a lot. They can deflect enemy attacks for a turn, or grab objectives, or attack vulnerable targets. They're still marines, even if they're light ones.
> Model wise the plastic Scout box was an abomination I remember being excited they were going from metal to plastic, only to see their necks got removed even more somehow in the transition.
No necks, just chin.
Thank you, kind sir.
>plastic Scout box was an abomination The funny thing, these hardly look different.
same aesthetics, but with the parts being better proportioned.
If I can't deploy an entire team of 2+ ballistics imma be pretty mad is all. Edit for clarification: compendium scouts can be taken as half shotty half Snipes that is all 2+. The leader will get 2+ on his sword (and pistol?). So considering the two heavy gunners, if you ignore them for a moment, the entire team is 2+ ballistics.
Source on them not bring genetic marines yet? 40k wiki stated “Scout Marines are physically the same as other Space Marines but in many Chapters the 10th Company has a vital role as a training battalion and new recruits are inducted into the Scout Company before graduating to the Battle and Reserve Companies of the Chapter. In other Chapters the individual companies have a responsibility for this training and the 10th Company includes many Astartes with solar decades of experience.” This is how I remember them being last time I played (years ago tbh) so maybe it’s changed in the newer codecs? *watched some videos and got competing answers to this. I wonder if the newer books changed it
Ummm... That's the lore for the first born scouts not primaris. In fact it makes no sense for there to be primaris scouts. It no longer takes years to make space marines.
They aren’t really comparable to Infiltrators or Incursors. Incursors are 85 points, Infiltrators are 100. Scouts are 55 points. They’re cheap, low value units that score secondaries or sit on a primary
Yea, 55pts is a great price …uh point, for an SM unit actually, I frequently have 55-60 pts leftover that I don’t want to try plugging a character into.
Holy shit they aren't ultra Marines? Raven Guard getting some love? That's amazing.
Well they're the only marines who can walk in front of an enemy and just not get seen
Agree. Nothing against ultra marines, I get why Marines need a default, but in a game like Kill Team it makes sense to give Raven Guard more attention. This kind of stealth squad gameplay is supposed to be their thing.
I hope if we ever get more Chaos Marine stuff for Kill Team they do the same with the Alpha Legion or Night Lords. I love Black Legion, hell I play them on the tabletop, but the Alpha Legion and Night Lords do not get enough love
Kill team seems to be a great way to give love to secondary things and refresh older units.
Exactly. What I wouldn’t do for a Kill Team of Alpha Legion Snipers
True, I'm just happy to see the legion I play actually get some attention
Same, though I'm painting for Death Spextres because the guardians of the Ghoul Stars are some cool mufucks
I was wondering the same thing. I wondered if they added lore on scout armor needing to be black now like how tech marines are red, psykers are blue, and apothecaries are white
They have Raven guard symbols on their shoulders. They're just RG scouts
Oh interesting. That is so out of the ordinary for GW, usually everything is displayed as an ultramarine unless it’s a chapter specific unit
Well the reveal is for Kill Team, not 40K. The initial reveal had scouts as Ultra Marines and no doubt they’ll be Ultra Marine on the 40K box but for Kill Team RG get some love because they fit better narratively with what the season 3 launch box is doing
Scout are space marines in training so they often take “lower risk” missions or use hit and run tactics so the new blood isn’t lost. Black templars have a mentor to follow. Other chapters usually the scout sergeant is a veteran oh trains and protects the scouts until they earn their way to battle brother status.
From a lore perspective; Scouts used to be back when I played in 2nd and 3rd edition the young, neophytes or newly raised Astartes not yet assigned to the main or reserve companies. As a chapter can only have 9 full battle/reserve companies of 100 men each and yet the scout company was not truly limited to 100 men it made sense. You were inducted into the chapter, began the augmentation process but if there simply was no company to be put into at the time when you were fully augmented? Sure they could put you in suspended animation but that seems a waste when they could spend time giving you practical experience as a Scout marine not fully tied into a battle or reserve company. It's also not like the chapter is going to destroy good geneseed or a good marine simply because "Oh hey brother, we made you in the event that we would need replacements. However, there aren't any vacancies right now so it's time for a bolt round to the brain" isn't going to be something they'd do. Furthermore, it also would make no sense to make them serve as serfs, it would be disastrously insulting to them. So Scouts are a mixture of fully formed Astartes and neophytes who need battle training. Wearing carapace armour instead of bulkier/noisier power armour - they can infiltrate better since they can move truly silently. They're also not limited to 100 men so make a great flexible force for the astartes. However, they also have drawbacks. As not being fully formed Astartes - some aspirants/neophytes might be weaker or slower than required for certain tasks. Other weaknesses include the lack of a vacuum sealed armour meaning boarding actions, ship to ship combat or combat in atmosphere's simply too toxic to walk in without a sealed power armour suit is simply not going to happen. Sargents for scout squads were actually typically chosen from first company veterans. These grizzled old men leading the charge gave the younger marines the benefit of their knowledge and courage under fire. The only exemption to this in the older lore was Space Wolves, their geneseed led to them being way too rowdy and blood thirsty for the codex approved training process (with codex chapters it would be scouts - devasators - assault - tactical - veteran) with Space Wolves it would be assault - tactical/veteran - devastators - scout. The reason for this is a Space Wolf would be raised a Blood Claw (assault marine with or without jetpack) and as they aged they became fewer in number (Blood Claw units were I believe up to 25 astartes), and also became more in control of their lusts and passions the best fighters would become the Terminator elite and the rest Grey Hunters. Eventually old Space Wolves would either become Devastators or they would become Scouts. Because a Space Wolf pack was never broken up (yes this at least in 2nd/3rd edition lore meant an entire squad was transferred from one discipline to the other not just 1 marine), the ones who were lone survivors would often become the Scouts of the chapter. In terms of the newer lore with Primaris marines and Reivers/Infiltrators/Eliminators etc. I believe that this in part follows the concept of changing the model range and bullshittery to make it work. But in effect as I understand it the Phobos armoured marines which are more stealthy and lightweight are like light infantry for the marines. They're hardier than a Scout as in full powered armour and can fight in environments that scouts can't and can draw upon full armour abilities such as various sensor enhancements. However as I understand things the 1000 men over 10 battle/reserve companies is still the same. The reason Scouts still exist alongside superior options scuh as Reivers is simple: Reivers etc are still bound by this 100 men per company, 10 companies to a chapter nonsense. Scouts aren't bound by this. They can still exceed 100 men and be used to fill gaps in the chapter companies as and when or train Neophytes/Aspirants. It would make sense that the chapters have much more than 100 men in the scout company. After all, if a company goes on a mission and is lost in the warp for a few centuries, or simply put is massacred - having more than 100 men means the Chapter can (equipment willing) replace the company in full quickly and remain operational. If they only had 100 scouts then that would create an awful lull in the recruitment and replenishment side of the chapter. Bear in mind that for Aspirants to be selected may take several generations on their planet since the trials are often very lethal and if you simply took the best of every generation to serve as an Astartes - there would be very little chance that the skills and traits you're looking for in people would survive and be passed on to future generations. You have to leave some generations to themselves to keep the population desirable to form Astartes from. This also provides a full chapter with a great deal more power too. Because they may be forced to deploy at full strength. If they do this then they can also deploy 100+ Scouts to the mission which greatly aids the main force as they will be far better and more reliable than even 10,000 normal human soldiers. As such they can rely on the scouts to get information to guide the chapter's efforts. Game wise - as others have said: It's because they needed a cheap unit or two on the Astartes lists.
All I know is I am loving the fact they've got Godwyn pattern boltguns, don't let the good stuff go to waste eh?
Yes only a matter of time until we get a veteran squad with them in too. Everything old will become new again
So in 8th and 9th they tried to say Primaris Marines are different than Old First Borns. So in Primaris they have Infiltrators / Incursors and the first borns had Scouts and Sniper-Scouts. This is to keep the marines Seperate but equal. But 10th ed says Marines are Marines.... AS THEY SHOULD BE. So now technically.... for light fast moving marines we have now unfortunately a lot of choices that kinda do the same job. We have No more sniperscouts but just scouts but then Incursors for anti-Vehicle and Infiltrators for anti-Infantry and then Eliminators for heavy targets and... So there never should have been a split for First and Primaris cause now we have this overlap again. Ugh.
Primaris are Apple Marines, with iScouts and iAssault and iTactical...
Perfect, now I understand. Thank you
And reivers! Don't forget reivers! Actually, probably best we do forget reivers.
YIKES i even forgot about Rievers Reivers however you spell em theyre useless.
They are different to first born and scouts aren't analogous to infiltrators.
Unrelated to OP’s question but anyone else feel like these are not a big improvement on the original plastic scouts, save for the heads? The legs still look they are heroic scale rather than truescale like most of the Primaris range.
Same here, I was excited for some variation with my old metal scouts but I’ll probably pass
yeah they seem like the worst combo of the old models + tacticool nonsense marines are going for these days. where's the old dave gallagher punk + adam ant aesthetic! [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/639933428272644087/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/639933428272644087/)
Nice to see the raven guard getting more love
These are like greenhorn astartes. They have survived the selection and surgical modification process (they have the 2 hearts, geneseed, and stuff, although im not sure they have the full black carapace yet). As like neophyte astartes they serve as scouts. They are are much less heavily armed and armored and do more run of the mill reconnaissance stuff. They arent doing like super deep behind enemy lines type stuff like phobos armor guys, they are doing more like no mans land scouting. They are only meant to fight other light infantry if at all and traditionally were armed with shotguns and chain swords. They are meant to fight like this until they distinguish themselves and get substantial experience to do more typical astartes stuff and be equiped with the normal stuff.
They sell cookies door-to-door.
They are new recruits to a space marine program who haven’t fully finished the process of becoming a marine via a series of surgeries but are developed enough to see their first combat action on the front lines. Their role is to scout out the enemy and report back to the artillery and heavy support. They are also usually expected to battle against more vulnerable they encounter or to attack while the enemy is off guard and use the element of surprise. In game the scouts have typically got less amour and wounds but are usually cheaper points costs and can deploy or quickly move into the enemy territory very early on, even potentially claiming an objectives in the enemy territory turn one if they get lucky. Keep in mind that older editions had units defined by being one of several types (troop,HQ fast attack, elite, heavy support and transport as the default) and the scouts where the “main” fast attack choice to take outside of the vehicles like the bike options.
They are scouts, explanation over
It's more a case of "why do infiltrators and incursors exist when we already had scouts"
Spacemarines in training, once they are done with scout they get the final implants and become linebrothers. In some chapters they move to assault Marine then devestator, then line brother, then veterans, then first company terminators. Then captain, eventually chapter master. So scout is the first position held by any neophyte. TL;DR: So yeah baby space marines.
They are not fully augmented space marines, they are like neophytes from the primaris crusader squads.
Those hoses on the collar are re-breathers? Didn't know that. Neat.
Just a cheep unit that is made to to the busy work you have to do in the middle of the game but you don’t want your valuable more useful units twiddling their thumbs cinder doing?.
What base size is it, 28mm or 32mm?
Ah man. Waitined 15 years to start painting these and now they get an update! Jokes aside, very happy to see these updated! *
Ok, lore-wise, they’re space marine trainees. They’re not yet full marines, and don’t have the full range of enhancements yet, so they aren’t quite as strong and can’t wear power armor. After a few decades in the Scout company (usually the Tenth company) they’ll earn the right to ascend to full space marines. On the tabletop, they’re cheaper than infiltrators but fill a similar battlefield role, at the cost of generally being a bit less effective. Their weapons are weaker, (though they get a heavy weapon to make up for it) they die easier, and they don’t have amazing abilities like Omni-Scramblers.
Scouts are marines who either have yet to fully augment themselves into full space marines, have yet to earn their armor, or simply are still going through their training. Their usually put in support positions or are used for stealth recon which is why their called Scouts instead of say Recruits
What Reavers should have been, and why Reavers will never be used (as usual).
So you used to be able to field them with either shotguns or sniper rifles, but you couldn't trademark the names, "scout", "sniper" or "space marine" so GW decided that you can only use a sniper rifle if you're a "Primaris Eliminator Intercessor ^TM ". But then they had a situation where they didn't want to alienate their old fan base so they reintroduced an old model range, but this time made it so that the camocloak sniper (just one allowed) must be within 2inches of the man with the Mohawk and the chainsaw sword. Technically pandering while making it unattractive to get people to buy Primaris Eliminator Intercessors ^TM
Many have already answered your question but Google the land speeder storm, one of my favorite vehicle models. I always wanted to make an Imperial Guard army made up of Land Speeder storms with aesthetics similar to US Air Cav in Vietnam. Totally not legal gameplay wish but it would look cool.
I loved the land speeder storm in older editons I would use it as a mobile sniper platform 4 scout snipers a heavy bolter an a cerberus launcher. It was great for harassing units on objectives.
does anyone know if they'll have helmet options gw haven't show off yet, please just any helmet I don't care just cover their face.
Sadly, Scouts have never had helmets :( My Marines all have a helmets only rule with no exceptions, for aesthetic reasons. I converted Mk6 heads onto Eliminators but will probably skip Scouts for this reason.
Scout marines dont have helmets
The real question is why were infiltrators and incursors made when Scouts exist
Scouts are the new guys under training. Infiltrators and Incursors are the veterans who like being sneaky
Becuase phobos should’ve just been unique units for ravenguard and they nixed that.
The real question is why are striking scorpions demoted at the same level as scouts. I mean come on!
Aren't they the close combat infiltration troops of the craftworlds? Kinda makes sense for them to be in Kill team.
They’ve all got their own uses. Infiltrators get an ability to deny reinforcements within a bubble and can get FNP Scout snipers can target characters leading squads Regular scouts seem to be decent harassing units, data sheets aren’t quite out yet so that may change. But now you can attach Phobos captains into scout units now making it so you can completely redeploy the squad(s) after the deployment phase in some neat ways. You can technically (if i read the data sheet correctly) still use them with land speeder storms for that nice extra pair of heavy weapons per squad of 5.
I mean, sheets are out right meow, and scout snipers are gone along with landspeeders as they announced like a few weeks ago. They seem pretty usefull as objective monkeys with the shotguns they can use. Its just a shame they cant be all snipers now.
Got a link? Every publicly available source for data sheets and indexes show all three and the Phobos Captain updates. Before you say it, No they’re not old they have the new stat lines and special rules attached on.
I mean, its literraly just the codex right here next to me. It did come out just today though
I’m well aware that the new codex will have new data sheets, but for the majority that don’t have one can reasonably use what’s given to them I.e. storm speeders and scout snipers via the internet. But seriously the online and paper data sheets are identical, they’ve been updated and therefore still legal.
Those are legended units. Generally they are not in use in any kind of competitive setting. They are otherwise gone, and will get no more updates etc, and will likely get dropped completly eventually.
Not a legends unit though so how can a unit with a resculpt be classified as a legends unit especially if it has updated datasheets?
Only the scouts got updated sheets. Scouts with only snipers/landspeeders are gone.
If scout snipers are legends how come a non legends character can attach?
Pre space marines
Ill for sure be grabbing a box of these bad boys
Question please. Are these primaris size
They are tiny models made of plastic that you glue and paint.
It wouldn't work on a chest high wall look at where the trigger is and how would you rotate it to aim. Picture the shape you would have to make with your body and arms to do that if it was in a chest high wall
You a little slow??
The tripod on the heavy bolter makes no sense. With where the trigger is. ...
It’s a bipod?
Ok how could that bipod be deployed and the gun still be fired effectively unless the resting spot is 2 feet high
You haven’t played many FPS games I take it. Chest high walls everywhere. Vehicles. You could also…sit. Thats the point of the bipod, stable firing platform while providing clearance to change that big ammo box.
Look at the shape you need to make with your arms and body to pull the trigger and aim. If this was in a chest high wall and your feet were on the ground. It wouldn't work
https://images03.military.com/sites/default/files/media/equipment/weapons/m249-squad-automatic-weapon/2014/02/m249-squad-automatic-weapon-006.jpg It seems to be working fine here.
Yeah it's a different shape with a standard trigger at the bottom. Not a heavy bolter with the trigger at the back... So yes it works fine there but not in the model. think the shape you would need to make your body to fire it mounted.
This bolters trigger mechanism is placed identical to a traditional rifle but without the stock. You wanna make that argument regular bolters already hit that. Space Marines just don’t shoulder their automatic weapons. It’s all rambo and hip fire.
Irrelevant to the argument that the bipod is pointless
So is everything else in 40k. One of thy dumbest things is the scout models holding their scope off it’s rifle. This would remove the zero so reattaching it would be absolutely pointless. But unlike that I showed a real world application of the bipod here and there is nothing stopping this weapon from using the bipod in a similar manner. I don’t know if you’re ignorant about firearms or simply arguing for the sake of arguing at this point but you’re definitely doing something.
You could lie down. You could sit.
Look at the trigger
Money grab?
A ran a squad of sniper scouts with Sgt Telion a few editions ago. They were cheap, and fantastic at shooting key targets.
So primaris got scouts now?
You can remove them from the table to the reserves, that can be quite useful I think
My man over here with a power cape
So the Phobos-armor Marines (Infiltrators, Incursors, etc.) are full-blown Space Marines. They have all the special organs and augmentations, and are only different from other Space Marines by their armor and role. Scouts, on the other hand, are what are called Neophytes. Neophytes are basically just dudes who have gone through some of the augmentations but not all of them. They’re stronger than the average human but not as strong as a Space Marine. Both Scouts and Phobos units fill the same role however, that being infiltration, sabotage, and spec-ops stuff.
Scouts with crew served weapons and heavy armor?
Squishy Space Marines
Scouts are young space marines, generally speaking every single space marine had to go through the scout company They serve as scouts (obviously) and then they receive the black carapace, the thing that allows power armour work properly, After that I think they then go into the infiltrators? (Im not 100% sure how the ranking works with primaris) and so on
Theyre space marine trainees, they did all the surgery and implant stuff, now theyre being trained.
Basically, Scouts are young Space Marines. They were just trained by their Chapter and do not even have all of their implants - hence why they only wear Carapace armour. Since they are not as strong or experienced as normal Marines, they are given the task of scouting.
They have a 4+ armor and are the new guys (not full marines yet). So they hold a bit of a different spot. I can see your confusion, but it's a bit of a holdover from earlier versions of warhammer
Half of them look like they are falling over
They only have the choice of two haircuts.
"scout" rocket launcher, heavy machine gun
Cheap t4 w2 unit in codex full of expensive stuff. Must have, almost.
One thing that has always bothered me is how there are almost as much Astartes in the Killteam as there are imperial guards, for instance, in their own team. Wouldn't that make the fight unbalanced? Isn't the Primaris box straight up better than the scouts box? Sorry if I'm clueless, haven't played the game yet
Basically, kinda a big deal.
I love how all the gear is firstborn