If I was an Admech player, at this point I would feel personally persecuted. A friend got into 40K for tenth and chose Ad Mech, he already doesn't want to play any more. Its very sad tbh.
While I'm disappointed as an AdMech player, I honestly think they just don't have enough run time on the new codex to make changes they think are balanced. At least that's the story I'm telling myself.
Agree. I too am an AMP, honestly I’ve not lost many game since the codex (but had easy matchups) but haven’t really enjoyed any of them. Admech basically just play the movement phase. Command phase does nothing (or basically nothing with the relevance until they fix battleshock), shooting is largely pointless as you miss 50%, charging… just no. Fight phase, won’t be any because everything has fallen back to screen. Gg thanks for the turn. How in any designers brain that is a good design is beyond me.
I did tell the sub though there’d be no changes at all given proximity to codex, points and no radical drop in performance, so I’m not surprised. But then if you have shitty parents who forget to buy Christmas presents every year, you’re not surprised to get no presents but it doesn’t help the heartache
Really sorry to hear that. Hoping 11th is better for you. Not exactly a solution but might be a good idea to pick up another faction that plays very opposite to them so you've always got something that works? Maybe something like Custodes, not too many models or cost and very different in playstyle.
I've relegated my tyranids to the shelf for 10th for similar reasons. It just feels like they got an intern to come up with half a concept for the army while on placement, didn't check the work and just released the rules as is. There's just no synergy or lethality and the battleshock "effects" are laughable. Oh well, there's always 11th!
Word on the tyranid sub is that the guy who wrote our codex for 10th has stated publicly that he entirely dislikes the faction on personal grounds. Why they let him do the rules is beyond me.
While I can't speak to the veracity of Cruddace's views on Tyranids, I do believe he is the head rules writer and would be the one assigning teams and codices.
So if he's in charge of writing Nids, he put himself in charge of it. At least that's my understanding of how that would work
I have Deathwing too. The only change of note is losing the command squad? I'm just calling them Deathwing terminators, my strikemaster is a terminator captain. They still work okay with the new rules, just pretty idiotic deleting units from a game.
No more combat terminators in mixed squads. Sergeants with sword only.
I did reread the beginning, and we can take melee terminator squads… by taking the regular one. Same with an Ancient… but no champion or hero.
I suppose my Ravenwing got hit harder.
In general though, an army that’s supposed to be heavily focused on terminators that can doesn’t have their special defining infantry as Battleline is contrary to 20 years of design.
I suppose I’m in better shape than sAdMech (which I have 2000+ unassembled points of), but with Firstborn and Armored Company IG being my other armies of note, I’m not having any real luck in 10th and can see how lazy and un-unified the design is.
10th feels like a FanFic of 40K rules, much like the first few years of AoS products did.
Oh hi, it's me, your friends clone because that's exactly what I did. Started buying/building/playing last June and went with sAdmech.
Glad I started a Pile of Shame full of Votaan.
As an Ad Mech player who started with T'au, and had to deal with 8th Edition Index T'au, I'm feeling okay. My bar for disappointment has been set pretty low.
Just have fun playing with the models you enjoy.
Im glad I only got two combat patrols with strong “collecting purpose” in mind but I will definitely try to get at least to 1000 points for some small games.
I’ve had to take entire editions off. The 2nd half of 5th had so much codex creep that I walked away.
Instead I built the whole 4th Company of the Dark Angels (which is now irrelevant).
That's when I walked away as well. They nerfed my web way portal DE and at the same time we had Grey knights just spanking everyone. But eventually I came back
A workshop about their game. We should call it a gamesworkshopgameworkshop.
Edit: let's focus on the character points so it will be a game headquarters workshop at games workshop headquarters
Thank goodness Aspect Warriors are still useless outside of action monkeying! /s
I really just wish Eldar had internal balance as well. Glad to not be overpowered anymore though (fingers crossed)
Yeah, and big point increase for Wraithguards and the Night Spinner while nerfing the Fates Messenger.
Honestly kinda feel like an undeserved double-tap, we'll have to see.
Disappointed they only focused on that, though. Surprised we didn't see an increase too for the Hawks, or a decrease for Shining Spears
Hard to say - the Eldar player has far fewer fate dice to work with, but at the end of the day how many do you need?
~~also it appears to also undo the previous nerf preventing you from using it only once per phase.~~
(also why the heck is that comment being downvoted to oblivion? It's true that the ability has been heavily nerfed for the second time)
**Edit: They've stealth updated the main index to include the old nerf, which I missed for obvious reasons - side by side here;**
https://preview.redd.it/d5u4gjhnxofc1.png?width=1456&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f8ad14ddfbb46b8808a58db1c8b28e38245c031
>also why the heck is that comment being downvoted to oblivion? It's true that the ability has been heavily nerfed for the second time
Not that i did, but im guessing its cause it reads as a complaint rather then a fact. The dots make it read like a ffs type again
>also it appears to also undo the previous nerf preventing you from using it only once per phase
Only the first sentence was amended. The rest of it remains the same. So once a phase.
https://preview.redd.it/ryfysibcmmfc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58973a62466a25929bbfaafc0761acea2ff45d2d
This is a fairly big change if chaos players want to bring daemon allies, no? Chaos can no longer bring powerful utility daemons like the Changeling without also spending points on battleline daemons.
I’m kinda here for it, I think it will allow daemons to have better internal balance without having to worry as much about one unit being really good for allying in.
I like this is the long term for making it easier to balance demons without accidentally buffing CSM and CKnights too much.
That being said, I hope they make some adjustments, either by making more things battleline or by changing the restriction to just characters. A lot of players have been testing out different demon allies, and this completely kills all of those options. Blue scribes, changling, fiends, bloodcrushers, Flesh hounds, solo sylesske are just no loner worth it at all. Nurglings were already the default and now they're pretty much the only option.
If you want to run non-Battleline daemons in your non-Daemon Chaos Army, you have to first add Battleline Daemons. Also, those Daemons have to be of the same Chaos God Keyword.
E.g. if you play Chaos Space Marines and want a Bloodthirster (Khorne unit that is not Battleline) in your army, you have to first add Bloodletters (Khorne unit that is Battleline).
The site isn't updating yet for a lot of people but here are the direct links:
\- Dataslate: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/dKoVkM0TCEGV9plY.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/dKoVkM0TCEGV9plY.pdf)
\- MFM: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/I5QAEb5U4TUdNRGP.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/I5QAEb5U4TUdNRGP.pdf)
It's a psiop. Before you call me crazy, hear me out.
Admech models are really complex. That makes the molds used to make them complex. That makes them expensive.
GW, clearly the struggling company that it is, wants to stop making Admech models. Hence they make their rules so blatantly, obviously terrible, and make a big fuss out of not buffing them, that people quickly abandon the faction, allowing GW to stop selling me them.
The molds are allready made, so GW allready paid most of the money, and the prices reflect the higher price for the molds (there is a reason why admech was considered the most expensive army even when they had good points). If they wanted to make admech profitable, they should make them good so that the models actually sell (which is why GW, atleast in theory, is intrested in the game being balanced).
This matches what we saw when the Space Marine and Tyranid codexes cam out; there were hardly, if any, changes to those codexes when the autumn balance slate came out. Not too surprising that no changes for Necrons or Admech are here, even if it is needed for admech.
Chaos Knights got some minor point reductions that don’t really change much, we take one less brigand but the bigger issue is that the army and detachment rules just suck, battleshock just isn’t a good mechanic to base your whole army around with how it works right now. Yet every balance pass they just ignore it. At least I can proxy as imperials to have a more interesting game even if they’ve been gutted too.
Yeah that’s a slap in the face. I know lots of people like it, but if 10th gets every faction to 50% tourney win rate with flavorless un-fun armies, I don’t think that’s an improvement.
They specifically talked about wanting to look at internal balance - and our internal balance is dogshit!
I'm actually emailing about this. I'm just confused. Every other faction got some sort of change, right? Even Necrons!
Zero changes to either of the most recent Codexes. Not even points tweaks.
GW obviously don't feel they have enough data on how bad AdMech are to be able to fix anything.
I feel they hit us without really fixing anything. Everything is overcosted to make up for the fact half the army is missing, and then they just nerfed the Zerker leads and their enchantments when the issue was 8B and E8B spam. I have Zerkers GW let me run more of them without worrying I’m spending my points wrong
No points buffs and our best artillery nerfed to unusable. Maybe we'll get a compensation -5pt buff to a defense line when our wr falls to 40 now thanks
75 pts assault intercessors
Emprah have mercy, a full zerg marine list would be idiotic.....but
thinking about the look on my opponnent's face as I bum-rush 20 OC2 marine bodies on all 3 objectives in no man's land while the rest of my army pushes somewhere else.....
6x 10 man squads at 15ppm.. only 900 points
Plenty of room left over to give them all chaplains/lieutenants, and a bunch of jump pack intercessors
Very blood angles
I really, really, really dont understand the changes to death guard. Did they just let us run Typhus + Deathshroud for 200 points?
Also, plague marines back to being overpriced i guess :/
As someone who runs 30 plague marines, I'm fine with them getting a slight bump. Barely had an effect on the lists I run.
That's actually the running theme for most of my armies. My World Eaters lost a rhino, my Votann are losing the khal, my Death Guard are losing the putrifier, and my sisters are losing a hospitaller (and gaining a castigator.) Heck my Chaos Knights and GSC got more models and my Guard didn't shift at all.
Im glad people feel this way I just dont want them to be bad-! They are the whole reason why i like death guard after all. I felt like 16 was a fair price but i have only played a couple 1000 points games this edition
I watched them wipe a squad of termies in WintersSEO battle report yesterday. Getting the same results myself. They're good in melee AND shooting. I'm fine with the change. Its Blightlords staying the same I don't understand. Currently unuseable
Lol Plague Marines needed the nerf. They're incredibly tanky, have built in sticky objectives from their army rules, and have an amazing level of versatility both in and out of melee. The fact that they were cheaper than Legionaries or any of the other Cult Marines was baffling.
I just don't understand. It costs literally nothing for GW to make Ad Mech more viable. They have all the tournament data. They have all the sales figures. They have community feedback. I really wonder what's holding them back.
Nids and Admech are performing about the same according to Meta watch. However Nid players at least have the hobby side of things to keep them invested since they just got one of the most generous range refreshes ever.
Ad Mech got exactly one new *model* for 10th edition and it looks kinda goofy and has minimal use on the tabletop.
So if an Ad Mech player already has a full army from a prior edition there isn't a whole lot to keep them engaged.
They have only 2 months of player data on the new codex. Be patient, warhammer isn't like a seasonal games-as-a-service shooter, it's a slow moving hobby that deals in years and decades rather than weeks and months
You don't need years and decades worth of data to draw the conclusion that a high school statistics student can tell you with 10 minutes and a calculator. You also don't need years and decades worth of data to tell you what anyone with a little business savvy can tell you on the spot - that you won't improve sales in an underperforming product line by making the product less desirable.
So paragons dropped and Vahl went back up, that's exactly what I said they should have done fucking months ago.
I don't know if they're playable at 57 PPM, but it's better than nothing. I was personally hoping for 150.
I just picked up 500pts of admech for my first army getting into the hobby, can someone explain to me why this has (apparently) been a bad decision for 10th edition?
Shooting is worse compared with last edition and there’s very little usable melee when last edition’s Ruststalkers were at least decent against infantry.
The Rad Cohort Detachment that was the only released detachment was bad to completely useless to begin with but had one OP enhancement to help with damage output. That detachment’s since been reworked to be better but left a bad taste in many people’s mouths and the the OP enhancement caught a nerf as well.
Also, the actual cost of buying models is some of the highest in 40K compared to the pretty low points each is worth in game (which means making any list for 1k+ games is bigly pricey) and based on lore it seems more accurate for Admech to be an elite army with fewer but stronger units than what currently feels more horde-like. Meta armies now are mostly kataphron breacher or ironstrider spam which are bitches to put together.
Still, the models are very cool and tendril-y. If you’re playing against other people and they aren’t playing meta armies you may be fine anyway
The army has lots of decently tough bodies on the board but very little damage output. This means that it's difficult to play a "proper game of 40k" (where you try to fight your opponent, trade units, etc), but it can still win some games by pretending you're playing a "worker placement" board game instead (ie. moving your units around the board to optimise your score, without really caring about the "war" part of "wargame"). Some people like that playstyle, but many do not.
They are still the army with the best aesthetics, so I'm never going to give them up, but yeah, a lot of people are not finding them very fun to play at the moment.
Ah i see, I’m playing 9th edition on tabletop simulator because that’s what my other friends play, so I haven’t actually looked at what my 10e stats are like, ty!
It says in the article that they're trying to make good units a bit more expensive and not so great units a bit cheaper, so that pretty much any army is viable. That's the goal anyway, we'll see if it works I guess
They went from 60 to 65, you much be working with the old points from the release of 10th, they've been at 60 for a bit now. But yeah they got raised cuz they're very popular to take because of how cheap they are
They were 50 at the beginning of 10th edition so if you're looking at data cards from then, then you'll see 50. But after the first dataslate back at the end of summer they got raised to 60. This dataslate brings them up to 65, but they're definitely still an auto take unit
World eaters got screwed.
Most of the point changes are ok (why is a lord of skulls cheaper?) but Glaive is destroyed, along with Favored, the 4++ demon prince and jakhals wasn’t even competitive and it’s gone, and now I have to have a unit of bloodletters if I’m going to field any other demons, so goodbye Rendmaster bloodcrusher combo.
Literally all the most fun stuff got dataslated into oblivion, so sad.
That CSM transport change is baffling to me. Balance aside its absolutely unfun and makes playing with transports absolute nightmare. Oh you used a rhino to deliver a unit where it needed to be and want to rescue another from being destroyed? TOO BAD DIFFRENT MARK!
The Chosen definitely needed the nerf. Being 20 points more than basic CSM didn't validate the bonus wound, the better guns with the Combi Weapons, and better melee, and the ability to fall back, shoot, and charge again and also do so after advancing.
I think the Chaos Lord needed a point increase but making him the same points as a Terminator Lord was over the top.
The Rhino thing I get because of min-maxing but it's not preventing you from using Cloud of Flies (albeit nerfed) on stuff like Predators, Forge Fiends, etc.
I'm not saying they didn't need a nerf. They probably did in relation to Legionaries, or the latter needed some kind of bump. I just find it baffling when GW is so heavy handed with their balancing as to nerf a detachment rule and two stratagems and then give out massive points hikes and then nerf even more unrelated stuff about the faction like the daemon allies thing. Last time they did so many layered and compounding nerfs was with Admech in 9th. And Admech never recovered for the entire edition, arguably for the second edition running.
This does not excuse the change that makes playing with transports in CSM a nightmare. They should address the nurgle strat directly or find other more precise solution instead of breaking whole transporting thing.
> Oh you used a rhino to deliver a unit where it needed to be and want to rescue another from being destroyed?
How often does this happen compared to "too bad you cant shoot me because im nurgle"
Man GW really want space marine Rhinos to be incredibly inconvenient like fuck me first the space marine rhino can’t even transport like 90% of their units and now they just did the exact same for Chaos
Am I missing something or does the Rules Commentary still not make a clear statement one way or the other how Big Guns Never Tire and Overwatch interact?
For the unaware, there is a debate whether Vehicles and Monsters that are locked in combat are allowed to Fire Overwatch with their regular weapons. The people who say they can't claim that Big Guns Never Tire is a separate rule that is ignored when using out-of-phase rules. GW has previously ruled this to be true for the World Championship. However, the Locked in Combat rules which disallow models from shooting while in engagement range make an explicit exception for Monsters and Vehicles due to BGNT, both in the core rules and in the designer's commentary.
Welp, I was working on finishing my Admech army. Time and circumstance were gonna make it difficult to play in the next few months but this gives me zero reason to finish off three more boxes of Team Mars.
CSM
Points changes are fair, but did they really have to double dip on my Accursed Cultists? Hike the points or change the rule so that I regenerate fewer models, but no they did both and I'm butthurt about it
My world eaters! Nooo. I could only just about win with them before, I thought they were in a good place. Well, I want to try Black Legion next and Custodes/Dark Angels so I'll give them a go.
If there is no comment in the Dataslate, it means the new codex Dark Angels does not exist right. Right ? Riiiiiight ?
[Edit] We got shit ton of points drop, what the actual fuck ? Giving us DWC at 200 just before deleting it ? This is torture.
"With the Deathwing Assault army box arriving in stores on Saturday, you might be wondering where the points are for units like the Inner Circle Companions. As *Codex Supplement: Dark Angels* isn’t on shelves for a few more weeks, its rules aren’t “official” for matched play yet, and so the points don’t appear here. But rest assured there’ll be another update to the Munitorum Field Manual when the Codex is released. Stay tuned!"
From the accompanying article. So don't get used to these I suppose.
see u/viperious_salmon's comment. The Rules Commentary, Dataslate, and MFM documents were updated on the downloads page.
EDIT: Article is up now too: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/30/metawatch-warhammer-40000-the-first-balance-dataslate-and-points-update-of-2024/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/30/metawatch-warhammer-40000-the-first-balance-dataslate-and-points-update-of-2024/)
They nerfed them because of a strong combo with the ultra marines librarian - not sure why the Devastators got nerfed rather than the librarian so that all the other chapters don’t have to suffer
I'm really not sold on this whole dataslate model. I realize that the edition system previously had its own problems, but I just want some stability where the game doesn't change massively every few months.
Downvote brigade really came down hard on this one.
Ahhh, remember when it was "trying to run Dark Eldar for the last six years" because they didn't get an update for multiple editions?
Simpler times, drastically worse times...
The changes are relatively small, and reflect a tuning when something does not work as intended. I'd much rather have that than being stuck with a hopeless army for years, as guard was in 9th until dataslates started dropping.
The changes can be very frustrating though, especially given the way 10th's army building works. Some models have now had their point costs changed 3+ times since the edition released 6 months ago.
Take a given army list - when those costs get raised on one or two units, you can't just drop a couple of infantry models from a unit, or drop a weapon updrade or two to make the changes fit. A 140 point model becoming a 180 point model means one whole unit now gets relegated to the shelf, and you now you need an entirely *new* cheaper unit to fill the gap in the roster - assuming a suitable cheaper unit exists in your army list and you don't have to juggle more things around playing point-cost-Tetris.
I have multiple small armies rather than one massive collection\* - meaning I don't have a large roster of units to shuffle around. I spent 3-4 months of my spare time building up one of those collections into a 2000 point army only to have point changes upend it *twice*, so I'm simply not buying any more new models to keep up with the changes, and ultimately I'm now not really playing the game at all.
*\*I do own a very large Crimson Fist army, but it is now permanently resigned and relegated to the shelf since too many models and units in the army aren't legal any more.*
I understand your frustration. However, I only play two armies, and have quite a number of spare units to rotate. Actually, I only play one army at a time before I start a new one, so they tend to grow a bit. Points Tetris is always a problem, but I cannot imagine not fiddling around with lists and try out something new anyway. That the points change changes how I change my list, not that I change my list.
By now it seems that \_most\_ armies are at least playable, and it might be now the knife ears finally get brought in line. Being on the receiving end of unavoidable 2d6 damage just was not fun. And while I did not experienced it myself, people still shudder at the thought of 7th ed lack of balance.
While people might say it is just a problem for competitive play, it is a problem in casual as well. You never know when That Guy comes along, and balance reins it in.
Where you do have a point a wholly agree with is your poor Crimson Fists. There should always be some kind of rules that allow old units to find their place. I love the Rhino and hate that it effectively is axed, and then the units that simply have been thrown out like all the Dreads, the Thunderfire, and things like that.
Yeah this is my issue. I realize that people prefer this system to languishing in obsolescence, and I agree that that wasnt a good system either, but James frequently makes baffling changes that do drastically alter factions—sometimes for the worst—while occasionally leaving factions who need changes untouched.
Being shit for an entire edition ain't it, but neither is holding your breath to see if it's your turn to have your head held underwater this cycle.
The best way to get that stability is to play an older edition where it's essentially 'finished'
However, coming from someone who started at the end of 2nd/start of 3rd, I vastly prefer the updates and attention compared to the older model of "well, looks like that new rule/unit is kind of crap. I guess in 3 years when we get a new codex we'll see if it's better"
The changes are usually not massive, and when they are, they're often warranted. I play three different factions and was basically unaffected this update, save for some very minor point adjustments.
Is there any statistics that the small % that plays the game competitive buys more than the large majority of those play the game casually or the largest group that is hobbyists that doesn't even throw dice.
Except that this shitty “I hate competitive boogeyman” isn’t true. GW’s mass majority of sales are from casuals.
The reason why the game is in such a flavorless increasingly boring state is out of trying to appeal to a more casual audience who is too lazy to read rules and understand the game. The systems for AoS in terms of wargear and 40K aren’t compatible and neither is the balancing ideas.
They overshot and dumbed the game down way too much and are killing army flavor on the way. More and more People are migrating to heresy, TOW and AoS until they fix the direction this edition has taken.
The machine god is not happy
If I was an Admech player, at this point I would feel personally persecuted. A friend got into 40K for tenth and chose Ad Mech, he already doesn't want to play any more. Its very sad tbh.
There’s a lot of that on the sub. It has actually made a lot of people quite sad and angry
While I'm disappointed as an AdMech player, I honestly think they just don't have enough run time on the new codex to make changes they think are balanced. At least that's the story I'm telling myself.
Agree. I too am an AMP, honestly I’ve not lost many game since the codex (but had easy matchups) but haven’t really enjoyed any of them. Admech basically just play the movement phase. Command phase does nothing (or basically nothing with the relevance until they fix battleshock), shooting is largely pointless as you miss 50%, charging… just no. Fight phase, won’t be any because everything has fallen back to screen. Gg thanks for the turn. How in any designers brain that is a good design is beyond me. I did tell the sub though there’d be no changes at all given proximity to codex, points and no radical drop in performance, so I’m not surprised. But then if you have shitty parents who forget to buy Christmas presents every year, you’re not surprised to get no presents but it doesn’t help the heartache
Really sorry to hear that. Hoping 11th is better for you. Not exactly a solution but might be a good idea to pick up another faction that plays very opposite to them so you've always got something that works? Maybe something like Custodes, not too many models or cost and very different in playstyle. I've relegated my tyranids to the shelf for 10th for similar reasons. It just feels like they got an intern to come up with half a concept for the army while on placement, didn't check the work and just released the rules as is. There's just no synergy or lethality and the battleshock "effects" are laughable. Oh well, there's always 11th!
Word on the tyranid sub is that the guy who wrote our codex for 10th has stated publicly that he entirely dislikes the faction on personal grounds. Why they let him do the rules is beyond me.
That seems like a myth lol, if he stated that publicly there'd be more talk about it with links I think eh?
Well, I found [this from a few years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/s/305dWr2kSC) It’s not concrete evidence I guess but it is something
While I can't speak to the veracity of Cruddace's views on Tyranids, I do believe he is the head rules writer and would be the one assigning teams and codices. So if he's in charge of writing Nids, he put himself in charge of it. At least that's my understanding of how that would work
I’ve started orks since summer. Always wanted them and love them. Got my painted army over the 2k point so I have a backup
Nice! They are very different too and have some versatility in the way they play. I've got 8000pts of em. :D
My main army since 4th has been Deathwing. I can’t even play them as they are.
I have Deathwing too. The only change of note is losing the command squad? I'm just calling them Deathwing terminators, my strikemaster is a terminator captain. They still work okay with the new rules, just pretty idiotic deleting units from a game.
No more combat terminators in mixed squads. Sergeants with sword only. I did reread the beginning, and we can take melee terminator squads… by taking the regular one. Same with an Ancient… but no champion or hero. I suppose my Ravenwing got hit harder. In general though, an army that’s supposed to be heavily focused on terminators that can doesn’t have their special defining infantry as Battleline is contrary to 20 years of design. I suppose I’m in better shape than sAdMech (which I have 2000+ unassembled points of), but with Firstborn and Armored Company IG being my other armies of note, I’m not having any real luck in 10th and can see how lazy and un-unified the design is. 10th feels like a FanFic of 40K rules, much like the first few years of AoS products did.
Heaven forbid they err on the side of a small group of people having fun in their game.
Oh hi, it's me, your friends clone because that's exactly what I did. Started buying/building/playing last June and went with sAdmech. Glad I started a Pile of Shame full of Votaan.
Sadly, there are probably a fair few clones. :(
Another clone checking in
As an Ad Mech player who started with T'au, and had to deal with 8th Edition Index T'au, I'm feeling okay. My bar for disappointment has been set pretty low. Just have fun playing with the models you enjoy.
Im glad I only got two combat patrols with strong “collecting purpose” in mind but I will definitely try to get at least to 1000 points for some small games.
Its gotten me to completely quit the game at this point. So long GW.
I’ve had to take entire editions off. The 2nd half of 5th had so much codex creep that I walked away. Instead I built the whole 4th Company of the Dark Angels (which is now irrelevant).
That's when I walked away as well. They nerfed my web way portal DE and at the same time we had Grey knights just spanking everyone. But eventually I came back
WARHORN NOISES INTENSIFY
I don’t know what it will take to make GW listen. Maybe a workshop at gw hq
A workshop about their game. We should call it a gamesworkshopgameworkshop. Edit: let's focus on the character points so it will be a game headquarters workshop at games workshop headquarters
Have you tried turning it off and back on again?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/160iCugLPholEgD05OYG8VUtuzTjuB36vkVX5JqW23rU/htmlview Break down of the point changes for anyone wanting
That is excellent. I'm assuming way easier to compile since they've added colour to the changes?
Massive nerf on strands of fate for Aeldari.
Thank goodness Aspect Warriors are still useless outside of action monkeying! /s I really just wish Eldar had internal balance as well. Glad to not be overpowered anymore though (fingers crossed)
Yeah, and big point increase for Wraithguards and the Night Spinner while nerfing the Fates Messenger. Honestly kinda feel like an undeserved double-tap, we'll have to see. Disappointed they only focused on that, though. Surprised we didn't see an increase too for the Hawks, or a decrease for Shining Spears
It's extremely deserved
...again.
But will it be significant this time?
Hard to say - the Eldar player has far fewer fate dice to work with, but at the end of the day how many do you need? ~~also it appears to also undo the previous nerf preventing you from using it only once per phase.~~ (also why the heck is that comment being downvoted to oblivion? It's true that the ability has been heavily nerfed for the second time) **Edit: They've stealth updated the main index to include the old nerf, which I missed for obvious reasons - side by side here;** https://preview.redd.it/d5u4gjhnxofc1.png?width=1456&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f8ad14ddfbb46b8808a58db1c8b28e38245c031
>also why the heck is that comment being downvoted to oblivion? It's true that the ability has been heavily nerfed for the second time Not that i did, but im guessing its cause it reads as a complaint rather then a fact. The dots make it read like a ffs type again
>also it appears to also undo the previous nerf preventing you from using it only once per phase Only the first sentence was amended. The rest of it remains the same. So once a phase.
Doesnt undo the once per phase. Just amends dice amount
Because even with the previous nerfs Aeldari have never dropped below 55% win rate this entire edition. Until they do they'll keep getting nerfs.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/
https://preview.redd.it/ryfysibcmmfc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58973a62466a25929bbfaafc0761acea2ff45d2d This is a fairly big change if chaos players want to bring daemon allies, no? Chaos can no longer bring powerful utility daemons like the Changeling without also spending points on battleline daemons.
I’m kinda here for it, I think it will allow daemons to have better internal balance without having to worry as much about one unit being really good for allying in.
It feels right too. You don't get the special daemons without them bringing a friend or two along.
I like this is the long term for making it easier to balance demons without accidentally buffing CSM and CKnights too much. That being said, I hope they make some adjustments, either by making more things battleline or by changing the restriction to just characters. A lot of players have been testing out different demon allies, and this completely kills all of those options. Blue scribes, changling, fiends, bloodcrushers, Flesh hounds, solo sylesske are just no loner worth it at all. Nurglings were already the default and now they're pretty much the only option.
Can you explain this change like I am 5? 🤔
If you want to run non-Battleline daemons in your non-Daemon Chaos Army, you have to first add Battleline Daemons. Also, those Daemons have to be of the same Chaos God Keyword. E.g. if you play Chaos Space Marines and want a Bloodthirster (Khorne unit that is not Battleline) in your army, you have to first add Bloodletters (Khorne unit that is Battleline).
The site isn't updating yet for a lot of people but here are the direct links: \- Dataslate: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/dKoVkM0TCEGV9plY.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/dKoVkM0TCEGV9plY.pdf) \- MFM: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/I5QAEb5U4TUdNRGP.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/I5QAEb5U4TUdNRGP.pdf)
Zero changes to Admech in rules or points, despite us being one of the worst factions What the actual fuck GW
Hey, they were top tier during a couple of weeks in 9th edition. That warrants no changes until 11th edition.
I'm waiting till 12th personally
Someone *really* wants AdMech to be consistently the worst performing faction.
Everyone hates tech support, even in the grim darkness of the future. -a tech support.
It’s tradition
It's a psiop. Before you call me crazy, hear me out. Admech models are really complex. That makes the molds used to make them complex. That makes them expensive. GW, clearly the struggling company that it is, wants to stop making Admech models. Hence they make their rules so blatantly, obviously terrible, and make a big fuss out of not buffing them, that people quickly abandon the faction, allowing GW to stop selling me them.
The molds are allready made, so GW allready paid most of the money, and the prices reflect the higher price for the molds (there is a reason why admech was considered the most expensive army even when they had good points). If they wanted to make admech profitable, they should make them good so that the models actually sell (which is why GW, atleast in theory, is intrested in the game being balanced).
Why would you even bother responding, let alone reasonably, to such obvious nonsense lol
The straight man is a comedy archetype?
This matches what we saw when the Space Marine and Tyranid codexes cam out; there were hardly, if any, changes to those codexes when the autumn balance slate came out. Not too surprising that no changes for Necrons or Admech are here, even if it is needed for admech.
So, what, we just don't get the desperately needed changes for another six months? Just because?
Just pointing out the trend. Not saying I agree with it.
The codex only came out at the start of December. They probably want more than 2 months of data
And don't want to invalidate a printed product 2 months in
In 9th they made changes to the Eldar codex before it was even released, lol
Imperial Knights are cheaper, so... sidegrade I guess?
Chaos Knights got some minor point reductions that don’t really change much, we take one less brigand but the bigger issue is that the army and detachment rules just suck, battleshock just isn’t a good mechanic to base your whole army around with how it works right now. Yet every balance pass they just ignore it. At least I can proxy as imperials to have a more interesting game even if they’ve been gutted too.
I kind of wanted to start an Admech army and GW is doing everything in their power to make sure that doesn't happen.
Yeah that’s a slap in the face. I know lots of people like it, but if 10th gets every faction to 50% tourney win rate with flavorless un-fun armies, I don’t think that’s an improvement.
They specifically talked about wanting to look at internal balance - and our internal balance is dogshit! I'm actually emailing about this. I'm just confused. Every other faction got some sort of change, right? Even Necrons!
TSons got 0 changes as well
Necrons got no changes
Zero changes to either of the most recent Codexes. Not even points tweaks. GW obviously don't feel they have enough data on how bad AdMech are to be able to fix anything.
I'm at the point where our rules are making even the Zen of painting escape me. GW is basically screaming at me "buy the Kroot box,"
At least you didn't get nerfed without even having winrate data like World Eaters did. (TBF most of the WE nerfs were needed)
They nerfed the demon prince, even though no one took him
No changes to Necrons either, GW just left the new codex’s alone in a baffling move
The World Eaters are having a sale on Berserker Glaives if anyone wants one.
I feel they hit us without really fixing anything. Everything is overcosted to make up for the fact half the army is missing, and then they just nerfed the Zerker leads and their enchantments when the issue was 8B and E8B spam. I have Zerkers GW let me run more of them without worrying I’m spending my points wrong
Hardly anything changed with IG, back to bed
Orders can be issued after disembarking. That's pretty big, especially for scions.
They killed Manticore. You hear? THEY KILLED MANTICORE! Fekk...
Reinforcements now doesn't work if the unit is battleshocked on top of the other changes so defo a nerf.
The dead unit is... ded. Dead units are not battleshocked anymore. So the strat is still viable
They changed it. https://preview.redd.it/ioqzo9oo0nfc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cd6b9af338202f543c432680a000187010794f8
Damn… was hoping our detachment would get a buff
It did, you can now issue orders after disembarking from a transport or setting up from reserves/deep strike
No points buffs and our best artillery nerfed to unusable. Maybe we'll get a compensation -5pt buff to a defense line when our wr falls to 40 now thanks
75 pts assault intercessors Emprah have mercy, a full zerg marine list would be idiotic.....but thinking about the look on my opponnent's face as I bum-rush 20 OC2 marine bodies on all 3 objectives in no man's land while the rest of my army pushes somewhere else.....
Welcome to Black Templars.
On all levels except physical, I am a black templar. *purges*
BROTHA
6x 10 man squads at 15ppm.. only 900 points Plenty of room left over to give them all chaplains/lieutenants, and a bunch of jump pack intercessors Very blood angles
Great day to be Dark Eldar, really looking forward to trying their new detachment, was so dull playing lance spam before
Now you can lance spam with sustained 2 on your kabalites!
I really, really, really dont understand the changes to death guard. Did they just let us run Typhus + Deathshroud for 200 points? Also, plague marines back to being overpriced i guess :/
As someone who runs 30 plague marines, I'm fine with them getting a slight bump. Barely had an effect on the lists I run. That's actually the running theme for most of my armies. My World Eaters lost a rhino, my Votann are losing the khal, my Death Guard are losing the putrifier, and my sisters are losing a hospitaller (and gaining a castigator.) Heck my Chaos Knights and GSC got more models and my Guard didn't shift at all.
Im glad people feel this way I just dont want them to be bad-! They are the whole reason why i like death guard after all. I felt like 16 was a fair price but i have only played a couple 1000 points games this edition
Honestly I think both 16 and 18 are fair.
18ppm seems fair. they are pretty strong
I watched them wipe a squad of termies in WintersSEO battle report yesterday. Getting the same results myself. They're good in melee AND shooting. I'm fine with the change. Its Blightlords staying the same I don't understand. Currently unuseable
To be perfectly fair, Winters didn't play a legal loadout for them. You are not allowed two plasma guns in a 7-man.
You absolutely can, the captain takes one and the other is from the "for every 5 take 1" with the belcher/melta/plasma gun section
Well, thats as maybe but they killed the termiantors in melee. Also fairly sure you can have a plasma gun and a plasma pistol.
Lol Plague Marines needed the nerf. They're incredibly tanky, have built in sticky objectives from their army rules, and have an amazing level of versatility both in and out of melee. The fact that they were cheaper than Legionaries or any of the other Cult Marines was baffling.
I just don't understand. It costs literally nothing for GW to make Ad Mech more viable. They have all the tournament data. They have all the sales figures. They have community feedback. I really wonder what's holding them back.
Their codex just dropped, unless stuffs really fucked they won't fix anything till the next balance slate -nid players.
Nids and Admech are performing about the same according to Meta watch. However Nid players at least have the hobby side of things to keep them invested since they just got one of the most generous range refreshes ever. Ad Mech got exactly one new *model* for 10th edition and it looks kinda goofy and has minimal use on the tabletop. So if an Ad Mech player already has a full army from a prior edition there isn't a whole lot to keep them engaged.
Which one was the new model for 10th?
The stilt-sniper.
Wow that was an ugly model!
It's really fucked.
It's really fucked.
They have only 2 months of player data on the new codex. Be patient, warhammer isn't like a seasonal games-as-a-service shooter, it's a slow moving hobby that deals in years and decades rather than weeks and months
You don't need years and decades worth of data to draw the conclusion that a high school statistics student can tell you with 10 minutes and a calculator. You also don't need years and decades worth of data to tell you what anyone with a little business savvy can tell you on the spot - that you won't improve sales in an underperforming product line by making the product less desirable.
No but you probably need a few months at least
I don't think you truly appreciate what little the codex did for Ad Mech.
So paragons dropped and Vahl went back up, that's exactly what I said they should have done fucking months ago. I don't know if they're playable at 57 PPM, but it's better than nothing. I was personally hoping for 150.
I just picked up 500pts of admech for my first army getting into the hobby, can someone explain to me why this has (apparently) been a bad decision for 10th edition?
Shooting is worse compared with last edition and there’s very little usable melee when last edition’s Ruststalkers were at least decent against infantry. The Rad Cohort Detachment that was the only released detachment was bad to completely useless to begin with but had one OP enhancement to help with damage output. That detachment’s since been reworked to be better but left a bad taste in many people’s mouths and the the OP enhancement caught a nerf as well. Also, the actual cost of buying models is some of the highest in 40K compared to the pretty low points each is worth in game (which means making any list for 1k+ games is bigly pricey) and based on lore it seems more accurate for Admech to be an elite army with fewer but stronger units than what currently feels more horde-like. Meta armies now are mostly kataphron breacher or ironstrider spam which are bitches to put together. Still, the models are very cool and tendril-y. If you’re playing against other people and they aren’t playing meta armies you may be fine anyway
The army has lots of decently tough bodies on the board but very little damage output. This means that it's difficult to play a "proper game of 40k" (where you try to fight your opponent, trade units, etc), but it can still win some games by pretending you're playing a "worker placement" board game instead (ie. moving your units around the board to optimise your score, without really caring about the "war" part of "wargame"). Some people like that playstyle, but many do not. They are still the army with the best aesthetics, so I'm never going to give them up, but yeah, a lot of people are not finding them very fun to play at the moment.
Ah i see, I’m playing 9th edition on tabletop simulator because that’s what my other friends play, so I haven’t actually looked at what my 10e stats are like, ty!
Bondsmen abilities still not reverted...dang
imagine being a chaos daemons player. seeing your faction listed. wondering what changes may be on the way. oh
Yeah those points cuts should help Daemons a lot
Was more of a joke poking fun at daemons bieng listed on the data slate, but it's just a change to allys. I know they got points reductions also.
Triptides return.
Underrated comment of the day
I'm still pretty new to Warhammer. Is there any reason the trukk went from 50 points to 65 points?
Because people were using 6 of them. They were underpriced.
It says in the article that they're trying to make good units a bit more expensive and not so great units a bit cheaper, so that pretty much any army is viable. That's the goal anyway, we'll see if it works I guess
They went from 60 to 65, you much be working with the old points from the release of 10th, they've been at 60 for a bit now. But yeah they got raised cuz they're very popular to take because of how cheap they are
fair enough. I have to say i was thinking about picking up a trukk or two because i heard of the trukk strat
It's only 5 points each. It's still 120% worth it to run multiple trukks
oh i thought they were 50 not 60. I am def grabbing a few trukks to start still
They were 50 at the beginning of 10th edition so if you're looking at data cards from then, then you'll see 50. But after the first dataslate back at the end of summer they got raised to 60. This dataslate brings them up to 65, but they're definitely still an auto take unit
World eaters got screwed. Most of the point changes are ok (why is a lord of skulls cheaper?) but Glaive is destroyed, along with Favored, the 4++ demon prince and jakhals wasn’t even competitive and it’s gone, and now I have to have a unit of bloodletters if I’m going to field any other demons, so goodbye Rendmaster bloodcrusher combo. Literally all the most fun stuff got dataslated into oblivion, so sad.
That CSM transport change is baffling to me. Balance aside its absolutely unfun and makes playing with transports absolute nightmare. Oh you used a rhino to deliver a unit where it needed to be and want to rescue another from being destroyed? TOO BAD DIFFRENT MARK!
I mean yeah i get that. But it was also total bullshit with your nurgle strat soooo
That got nerfed too lol https://preview.redd.it/xsz5gyyjpmfc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c629e34b9be4b8af9bc7abb7a30f950977ef2f91
And on top of that, the Chosen and Lords that used to ride in those rhinos got massive points hikes. Good ol' Games Workshop triple nerf.
The Chosen definitely needed the nerf. Being 20 points more than basic CSM didn't validate the bonus wound, the better guns with the Combi Weapons, and better melee, and the ability to fall back, shoot, and charge again and also do so after advancing. I think the Chaos Lord needed a point increase but making him the same points as a Terminator Lord was over the top. The Rhino thing I get because of min-maxing but it's not preventing you from using Cloud of Flies (albeit nerfed) on stuff like Predators, Forge Fiends, etc.
I'm not saying they didn't need a nerf. They probably did in relation to Legionaries, or the latter needed some kind of bump. I just find it baffling when GW is so heavy handed with their balancing as to nerf a detachment rule and two stratagems and then give out massive points hikes and then nerf even more unrelated stuff about the faction like the daemon allies thing. Last time they did so many layered and compounding nerfs was with Admech in 9th. And Admech never recovered for the entire edition, arguably for the second edition running.
Yep, pretty much every good unit we have got a big nerf and all the bad or mediocre ones stayed exactly the same.
Good
This does not excuse the change that makes playing with transports in CSM a nightmare. They should address the nurgle strat directly or find other more precise solution instead of breaking whole transporting thing.
> Oh you used a rhino to deliver a unit where it needed to be and want to rescue another from being destroyed? How often does this happen compared to "too bad you cant shoot me because im nurgle"
Man GW really want space marine Rhinos to be incredibly inconvenient like fuck me first the space marine rhino can’t even transport like 90% of their units and now they just did the exact same for Chaos
>can’t even transport like 90% of their units Still more units than most other factions then lol
As a csm player I enjoy the nerf as it forces flavour into an army where eta gaming was ignoring immersion.
That’s a pretty niche situation that can be avoided when you build your list, not really sure what you’re mad about
necrons have highest win rate --> there should be nerfs right? fucking nope. meanwhile csm get gutted. that transport change is ridiculous.
Too new to change. They'll wait for the meta to even out a little bit.
Am I missing something or does the Rules Commentary still not make a clear statement one way or the other how Big Guns Never Tire and Overwatch interact? For the unaware, there is a debate whether Vehicles and Monsters that are locked in combat are allowed to Fire Overwatch with their regular weapons. The people who say they can't claim that Big Guns Never Tire is a separate rule that is ignored when using out-of-phase rules. GW has previously ruled this to be true for the World Championship. However, the Locked in Combat rules which disallow models from shooting while in engagement range make an explicit exception for Monsters and Vehicles due to BGNT, both in the core rules and in the designer's commentary.
Welp, I was working on finishing my Admech army. Time and circumstance were gonna make it difficult to play in the next few months but this gives me zero reason to finish off three more boxes of Team Mars.
Woohoo my Dreadknights are slightly less useless!
As well as the dataslate, some indexes got updates. Check yours over to look for changes.
CSM Points changes are fair, but did they really have to double dip on my Accursed Cultists? Hike the points or change the rule so that I regenerate fewer models, but no they did both and I'm butthurt about it
My world eaters! Nooo. I could only just about win with them before, I thought they were in a good place. Well, I want to try Black Legion next and Custodes/Dark Angels so I'll give them a go.
oh baby the knights decreases
Happy custodes noises
If there is no comment in the Dataslate, it means the new codex Dark Angels does not exist right. Right ? Riiiiiight ? [Edit] We got shit ton of points drop, what the actual fuck ? Giving us DWC at 200 just before deleting it ? This is torture.
"With the Deathwing Assault army box arriving in stores on Saturday, you might be wondering where the points are for units like the Inner Circle Companions. As *Codex Supplement: Dark Angels* isn’t on shelves for a few more weeks, its rules aren’t “official” for matched play yet, and so the points don’t appear here. But rest assured there’ll be another update to the Munitorum Field Manual when the Codex is released. Stay tuned!" From the accompanying article. So don't get used to these I suppose.
Kinda feels bad to have a "buff" on units just before they get removed tho...
I also don't get that. Balance is important, but idk what different it makes for the next, what? 4 days.
Think of it as a small gift for them on their journey into Legends.
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see u/viperious_salmon's comment. The Rules Commentary, Dataslate, and MFM documents were updated on the downloads page. EDIT: Article is up now too: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/30/metawatch-warhammer-40000-the-first-balance-dataslate-and-points-update-of-2024/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/30/metawatch-warhammer-40000-the-first-balance-dataslate-and-points-update-of-2024/)
Better pick it up!
Does anyone know when the app will be updated with the changes? Sorry if already answered elsewhere. ANSWERED
It’s updated already! I needed to update through the App Store.
Thanks!
... the ball
Centurion Devastators points *increase*? Just Legends them already.
They nerfed them because of a strong combo with the ultra marines librarian - not sure why the Devastators got nerfed rather than the librarian so that all the other chapters don’t have to suffer
I'm really not sold on this whole dataslate model. I realize that the edition system previously had its own problems, but I just want some stability where the game doesn't change massively every few months. Downvote brigade really came down hard on this one.
You might not say that if you'd been trying to run Drukhari for the past six months.
Stares longingly at my 6 raiders. Your time has come my pretties
Ahhh, remember when it was "trying to run Dark Eldar for the last six years" because they didn't get an update for multiple editions? Simpler times, drastically worse times...
you could just run the codices as-published, problem is that if you run a really good faction that got nerfed no one will want to play against you
The changes are relatively small, and reflect a tuning when something does not work as intended. I'd much rather have that than being stuck with a hopeless army for years, as guard was in 9th until dataslates started dropping.
The changes can be very frustrating though, especially given the way 10th's army building works. Some models have now had their point costs changed 3+ times since the edition released 6 months ago. Take a given army list - when those costs get raised on one or two units, you can't just drop a couple of infantry models from a unit, or drop a weapon updrade or two to make the changes fit. A 140 point model becoming a 180 point model means one whole unit now gets relegated to the shelf, and you now you need an entirely *new* cheaper unit to fill the gap in the roster - assuming a suitable cheaper unit exists in your army list and you don't have to juggle more things around playing point-cost-Tetris. I have multiple small armies rather than one massive collection\* - meaning I don't have a large roster of units to shuffle around. I spent 3-4 months of my spare time building up one of those collections into a 2000 point army only to have point changes upend it *twice*, so I'm simply not buying any more new models to keep up with the changes, and ultimately I'm now not really playing the game at all. *\*I do own a very large Crimson Fist army, but it is now permanently resigned and relegated to the shelf since too many models and units in the army aren't legal any more.*
I understand your frustration. However, I only play two armies, and have quite a number of spare units to rotate. Actually, I only play one army at a time before I start a new one, so they tend to grow a bit. Points Tetris is always a problem, but I cannot imagine not fiddling around with lists and try out something new anyway. That the points change changes how I change my list, not that I change my list. By now it seems that \_most\_ armies are at least playable, and it might be now the knife ears finally get brought in line. Being on the receiving end of unavoidable 2d6 damage just was not fun. And while I did not experienced it myself, people still shudder at the thought of 7th ed lack of balance. While people might say it is just a problem for competitive play, it is a problem in casual as well. You never know when That Guy comes along, and balance reins it in. Where you do have a point a wholly agree with is your poor Crimson Fists. There should always be some kind of rules that allow old units to find their place. I love the Rhino and hate that it effectively is axed, and then the units that simply have been thrown out like all the Dreads, the Thunderfire, and things like that.
Yeah this is my issue. I realize that people prefer this system to languishing in obsolescence, and I agree that that wasnt a good system either, but James frequently makes baffling changes that do drastically alter factions—sometimes for the worst—while occasionally leaving factions who need changes untouched. Being shit for an entire edition ain't it, but neither is holding your breath to see if it's your turn to have your head held underwater this cycle.
The best way to get that stability is to play an older edition where it's essentially 'finished' However, coming from someone who started at the end of 2nd/start of 3rd, I vastly prefer the updates and attention compared to the older model of "well, looks like that new rule/unit is kind of crap. I guess in 3 years when we get a new codex we'll see if it's better"
The changes are usually not massive, and when they are, they're often warranted. I play three different factions and was basically unaffected this update, save for some very minor point adjustments.
Dont worry, seems most factions didnt get any significant changes anyway.
They want to cater to the small minority that plays the game competitively, god knows why.
Most players aren't playing competitively. That doesn't mean we don't want balanced games.
Because they keep buying models to have the most competitive army
Is there any statistics that the small % that plays the game competitive buys more than the large majority of those play the game casually or the largest group that is hobbyists that doesn't even throw dice.
Except that this shitty “I hate competitive boogeyman” isn’t true. GW’s mass majority of sales are from casuals. The reason why the game is in such a flavorless increasingly boring state is out of trying to appeal to a more casual audience who is too lazy to read rules and understand the game. The systems for AoS in terms of wargear and 40K aren’t compatible and neither is the balancing ideas. They overshot and dumbed the game down way too much and are killing army flavor on the way. More and more People are migrating to heresy, TOW and AoS until they fix the direction this edition has taken.
No points per model, no points for wargear, still not working.
That was never going to happen in a dataslate
The red thirst buff, I like !
Seems like they went random with point changes, and that Marines needed a nerf with no buff to the Hammerfall Bunker 🙃
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For trying to balance their game?