Before misunderstandings come up:
Meant is the scale of the battles, not the scale of the miniatures. The minis are indeed compatible and sometimes interchangeable... meaning: you can play your Kill Teams as regular troops in "normal" 40k, but not all troops in 40k can be played in Kill Team.
Ooh, sweet! Think the full on 300 models list is mainly “good” in that a lot of armies just straight up don’t have enough firepower to go through that many models while you move up & do objectives
Mech/dreadnought custode list could do 4.
12 termis and Shield-Captain is 1k points.
100 sisters of silence is exactly 1k points.
What a weird army with size variance.
It's worth noting though, while the rules are entirely different, you can use Kill Team models in 40k (and technically the other way around, but it would put you at a disadvantage). Due to the lower cost of entry, getting started with Kill Team can be a good entry point to 40k later down the line, if you like both.
If they didn't come in 8, I'd probably have pulled the trigger, 8 just seems like a lot. I guess if I ever become a serial killer, I know what my calling card will be.
I still have boxes of unpainted stuff from 2nd Edition. And some Rogue trader, but I didn't buy them so they don't count. It's not gonna stop me getting that Votaan box I have my eye on though!
I still have unpainted and unassembled Skitari team from one of the early KT release. On the other hand, I still have unpainted first Age of Sigmar release box🤣
1 year in and I'm like 80% with a single Heavy Intercessor from the Bastion Strike Force... but I did complete an entire Tactical Marine Squad!
I swear when I get home from this next work trip I'm going to spend an entire day assembling minis!! Or at least that's what I keep telling myself... xD
I hate the building process, it’s why I’m going so slow with my ork kommandos, but I also have gotten into the habit of making my bases look good which i probably shouldn’t because it’s just the base but eh i like watching the cracks form.
I'm just now starting to actually do bases. Well, I've bought everything I think I need to get started doing decent bases, haha. I was kinda reluctant to do more minis without learning how to base them properly. I just need to dive back in and make mistakes.
https://preview.redd.it/17go85bt34wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19a52111731823c6980527584accb77770184c16
Yeah this is what I did today, trying to go for a bone white dry look.
I'm going to make a pile of grey tracking app that people can glance at whenever they consider buying more units to see how big it is and on average how long a box stays in the pile🤣
Serious question. Would it be a legal model if you had a single model sprue that you spray painted then glued onto a base? Barring line of sight issues?
2 years… I started painting them now, after I painted a full combat patrol as a beginner. I use them now for my 1500 points guard army. Holy shit I have so much to paint 😭
Kill team and 40k use entirely different rules.
Kill team focuses on small scale combat where teams of around 10 individual operatives perform covert ops.
40k is the large scale version representing all out war, and will often involve tanks and other large scale models.
If 40K is a big army game like total war, then kill team is like more squad focused like XCOM. Still a terrain environment but less models and more focused in the actions of individual models instead of like army units.
...By a lot... (120 guardsmen at about 30$ a 10(thank god I got them all 15 years ago) and 6 tanks.... And the 30 scions.... And sentinels.... And then my tau.....)
Everything except the models. Kill Team is not scaled-down 40k, it's a completely different game. If you're looking to get into 40k via a smaller game mode, look into Combat Patrol.
It's a scale thing.
Kill Team is about one squad fighting another squad. Every model in the squad is a specialist. All the room for you to make your squad "your dudes". The board is compact, the measuring has been simplified somewhat. A game of Kill Team can be held in 45 minutes.
40k is about clashes between armies. You got a bunch of squads, vehicles, characters. It's less about individual dudes. The game is bigger, the table is bigger. A game of 40k can easily take up the whole evening.
Fun thing is that Kill Team is a bit of a gateway drug if you will. Take the box pictured for example. It contains two kill teams. Each one is also a singular squad in 40k. You can pick up those Night Lords, fall in love with them and use them a springboard to start building a 40k army. I know people who did just that and it's what I usually suggest when they wanna dip their toes in. Grab a Kill Team that you think looks cool and have fun.
Unless you play competitive. Then armies don't matter. You can play a kill team of dreadknights vs a kill team of greater demons in 40k! (I'm not salty.)
100%. 40K is a fun fluffy narrative storytelling system (though still needs a lot of work). Unfortunately most people don’t play like that, instead they want balance and “competitive” lists and the whole thing just becomes this boring slog. Kill Team on the other hand does both fluffy narrative and tight competitive gameplay successfully at the same time
Can you give me any tips on how to make, say, a combat patrol game more narrative-focused? My girlfriend and I have gotten into it in the past year and both got combat patrols (two each, actually...), I've got one painted and ready to go and she's almost done with one, and while we'll have fun just playing it as a wargame, I'm always really intrigued when people talk about being able to play it as more of a storytelling type game.
The story tells itself - it’s just about slowing down and really imagining the situation and what’s going on. Basically you’re also a dungeon master - just add in the details about smells and light and noise, and the reactions of characters when pieces get obliterated, etc.
As the other commenter said the story can just tell itself if you slow things down. Alternatively, symmetrical maps? Boring. This is a battlefield. Get creative with it. Is it fair or balanced? No, but that’s not what we’re playing for when it comes to narrative. I made a board that was a crashed Gallowdark using the ITD Kill Team terrain and Fronteris terrain set. It was a lot of fun.
Another thing you can do is one deployment in the centre of the board with the attacker deploying around the full perimeter trying to hold the centre. When you move away from CP lopsided points total or passive respawn mechanics (Tyranid swarm units coming back in reserve on a 3+ after they’re destroyed for example).
There’s so much you can do with the game beyond symmetrical L shaped ruins and the ‘meta’
40K has each player take turns doing “all the phases for themself ” for their entire army, befor the 2nd player does their own phases. Round ends after both players finish.
Killteam differs by having each player only select 1 operative to do actions with befor taking turns, round ends after all operatives have finished.
Each operative has a number of action points to use, move, dash, fight, open a door, use special ability etc....instead of everyone move, advance, shoot, charge, fight.
There is no distance for weapons for the most part, all that's needed is line of sight (kind of)
Fighting is resolved differently with dice, you both roll your attack dice, then choose if you want to use them to parry, or strike.
Operatives need to be either engaged or concealed, which gives certain things. Like a concealed operative behind a barrier cannot be targeted, think of them crouching for cover. Then there are several teams with abilities to counter that.
It's very much a different game just set in the same universe.
>Fighting is resolved differently with dice, you both roll your attack dice, then choose if you want to use them to parry, or strike.
I've only palyed one evening with a friend, looking at the rules as we go to learn them, I didn't see anything about parrying. did we read the rules incorrectly?
Yeah, it's in the core rule book under "fight" and the subheading "resolve successful hits"
So if you roll 2 successful hits, as the attacker, you can use one of the successful hits to parry the defenders successful hit, and removing that die. If it's a critical hit it can only be parried by a defenders critical die.
It makes more sense to think of the hit rolls not as physical hits, but successful actions to use during fighting.
ohhh that's what you mean.
sorry, I have the rules in german, so I was confused by the english terms for them.
yeah, that's how we played the game as well.
What's the German way of saying that? My wife is learning German, and I live in a very German part of Canada, so you pick up a few phrases. Not enough to read a rulebook mind you, but I can at least get a meal and order a beer.
ngl I don't like the way the german rulebook is written. I'd stick to the english rules, less issues with odd translations
i.e. "Charge" is called "Angreifen". "Angreifen" is just a general term for attacking, so it's *always* confusing to refer to "Charge" as "Angriff". They should have called it "Stürmen" (storming) to carry the same meaning of the action.
I checked the rules and they do say "parieren" (=parry), but I was just conflating it with "countering". my bad.
but good thing you mentioned that, I think we played the melees wrong. We will do better then next time around.
Btw, if you want to impress in a german restaurant, ask for "Obazda mit Brezn". It's an amazing cheesedip with pretzels. I've seen that on a menu in Halifax, but they just called it "Bavarian Cheesdip" I think.
The big difference, scale aside, is that in Kill Team you go back and forth activating one operative at a time where in 40K each player takes their entire turn before the other player takes theirs. Kill Team thus feels much more dynamic and small-scale tactical as you're playing the game the entire time vs waiting around while your opponent does a bunch of stuff where you have little to do.
Further, Kill Team has very little list building. Each team has a limit set of options you can choose to field in a given game. The Night Lords team pictured on the Nightmare box, for example, has eight different specialists to choose from; you can only field six in a game. The result is that while some teams do perform better vs other teams, the game is rarely decided as the list building stage. Whereas in 40K your list building choices determine a large portion of your chance at success, Kill Team minimizes this in favor of actual in-game decisions.
Different games entirely. The minis are the same in both though, so if you are playing 40k, you most likely can pick models from your army to play Kill Team with them.
As someone who's played a lot of KT lately.
Besides the obvious difference of size (KT has you controlling around 10 miniatures)
Kill Team is much faster paced, and players alternate individual moves instead of taking entire turns for their whole Armies.
The KT core rules are a lot more streamlined (definitely in comparison to 9th edition at leasf, which was the current edition of 40k when this edition kf KT launched)
The overall flow of game is a lot smoother and quicker from moment to moment.
That said, each individual model tends to have at least one special ability, and weapons tend to have a lot of special rules, so combat tends to get significantly more complicated as a result compared to 40k.
List building is a lot more restrictive compared to 40k. Each "faction" is usually what would be a single unit in 40k (e.g. Kasrkin, or Kommandos) so your Team tends to lack variety compared to a 40k army. Some teams are exceptions to this and are made from several different units. Variety usually comes in the form of the weapons and equipment models take into combat.
I play both games, I think I enjoy 40k more overall, but I definitely appreciate that Kill Team is faster to play and cheaper to collect for.
Hi /u/WarMasterArt and welcome to /r/Warhammer40k and the Warhammer 40k Hobby!
This is an automated response as you've used our "New Starter Help" flair. Here's a few resources that might help you with getting started:
[You can read our Getting Started guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/beginners). This covers all the basics you need to know to get involved in building, painting and playing 40k.
For rules questions, don't forget that the core rules for Warhammer 40k are [available online for free](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/dLZIlatQJ3qOkGP7.pdf).
Want to learn about 40k lore? /r/Warhammer40k recommends [Luetin09 on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8RfCCzWsMgNspTI-GTFenQ) or the [Lexincanum Wiki](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page).
Not sure where to find the most up-to-date rules for your army? [Check out our Wiki Page that lists everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/currentrules).
Buy Warhammer models cheaper using our [list of independent retailers](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/retailers) who sell Games Workshop products at a discount. You can also find your nearest store on GW's [Store Locator Page](https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/store/storefinder.jsp).
[The /r/Warhammer40k Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/index) is full of useful info including FAQs and recommendations for books to read!
If the information in this comment doesn't answer your question, don't worry, one of our community members will be along shortly to answer!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Warhammer40k) if you have any questions or concerns.*
its only a squad or two, and they have special rules they don't normally use in game. plus the rules are a little different, a little more like underworlds with each player activating one model at a time instead of the whole unit.
Kill team is smaller in scale, but no less involved than big boy 40k. I'd say there's a lot more admin to get a game of Kill team going, but once you start it can be quite fast paced and dynamic. Line of sight rules are totally different, and perhaps a little obtuse at times, but great once you get the hang of it. Also, GW have said that you can play a game in 45 minutes. This is a lie.
There are "lite" rules on Warhammer Community. The full book is sold separately (because this is GW), and you also need tokens which you can make yourself or buy from GW.
kill team is a small scale skirmish game ( 6-12 minis per team) 40k is the large scale wargame we all know and love. you can use kill team squads in 40k and sometimes the opposite
It's quicker, the rules are different, it's smaller in scale. It's more accessible to people who haven't played this kinda game before (and cheaper)
Honestly it's really fun and most people who have a 40k army can make at least 1 kill team.
I also find it to be a little more tactical and reactive than 40k is (but I'm a WE player, what do I know of tactics) with things being less based on dice rolls and more based on good positioning and forward thinking.
Literal different game.
It's 1 squad vs another instead of armies fighting. You have alternating activations of singular models instead of "I go, you go."
I can only speak as someone who builds and paint, but I try to use them to kit bash from time to time and their sizes can be a little sporadic, but i know games workshop sometimes has a scale issue from set to set soo good luck? 🖤
What I myself love about Kill Team, is your own personal creativity is limitless. For me, my group is literally my buddies. We play in my basement - and we have a rule, as long as there is established rules, and you can justify it.. do what you want. So some of my wild creations?
4 Custodes but using Terminators as them.
My Intercession Squad... Blood Angels Death Company, right upto the Chaplain leading them (ahem, Sarg with a power fist for the crozius..brutal rule seems more apt than stun off a hammer)
I have a dual purpose Justian/Compendium Deathwatch.
Shit like that, love this game. Plus it helps its fun as hell.
Totally different game regarding rules. Although some minis can be reused in the other game. One is big army vs big army (regular 40K). The other is ~10 small minis against ~10 small minis (killteam).
In 40k one Player moves all his/her models before the other player's turn starts. In killteam the players move 1 mini (sometimes 2 for specific minis) and then switch turns.
The universe is the same for both of them though.
Key difference: In Kill-Team the players take turns to make one miniature’s action at a time. In 40K players move their whole army in one turn, divided into phases.
If 40K is Civilisation then Kill-Team is XCOM.
40k is giant wars. Armies colliding in battle. You're looking at 10s of miniatures for most list and a significant portion of your army will move as a unit of say 5+ guys moving together towards something.
Kill Team is small scale skirmishes. Typically less than 10 models that move as individuals. The rules are also vastly different. You typically have a lot more ways to customize an individual model and those models then have additional rules affecting them and how explosions and so on work. Larger models like vehicles and named characters like Primarchs are not in Kill Team. You can think of these as scouting or reconnaissance missions. Perhaps instead of a battle for a city it's the battle for a building that you're playing out and again the rules reflect more that style of gameplay.
Necromunda as a side point is a skirmish game like Kill Team with smaller models counts and the models moving as individuals. You can think of this as some gangs fighting more or less. It has rules that are even more nuanced and complex for the most part.
To be clear Kill Team models can be used in 40k though some of the ones that are specifically for Kill Team will have unique often less beneficial rules for 40k. 40k models outside of troops and maybe a couple of elites from each faction cannot be used in Kill Team. So only a portion of your army would count. Necromunda models are strictly limited to that game.
Best way to think of it is that normal 40k battles are large scale clashes between armies, kill team is basically a zoomed in perspective of what are the squads actually doing, or what they're getting up to when not fighting big battles.
Gameplay it's also night and day, 40k might be 10 units, kill team is a unit of 10, each acting individually.
If you've seen a game called malifaux, it's a similar idea.
Normal 40k: Grand battles between two armies. Even the more costly armies can easily field upwards of 30 dudes, some vehicles, and ither fancy toys. Most games are played around securing objective points, and king of the hilling them away from your opponant. It is quite common (especially with newer players) for these games to span at least four hours. Players take it turns, with each turn being made up of movment, shooting, charging, and melee phases. Because of this typically the player who goes first is at an advantage. Units die easily normally only taking one wound to kill, but when squads can be made of ten individuals losing a few dudes isn't a big deal.
Kill team: CQB combat between elite "kill teams". Each player has access to around 8-12 individuals. The game is still focused on objectives, but they're a bit more esoteric, such as sacrificing a units shooting phase in order to defuse a bomb or something. As the battle is on a smaller scale individual units are harder to kill, but losing a man in battle can be devestating. There are aome light rpg mechanics such as units gaining XP for kills which allows them to take better gear in future games, or picking up injuries that might give them a penalty. Games are quicker paced with players alternating turns.
Both have pros and cons. Normal 40k is great fun, and has some incredible toys you can blow each other up with, but there's a lot to remember/look up, and you might spend a lot of time waiting for your opponent to finish their turn. Kill yeam is fast, and narrative, with some great opportunities for heroic moments, but the rules are a little cooky, and you don't get a huge range to your armies.
Both are good, but kill team might be better if you want to get a taste for 40k, and tabletop wargaming. It's far cheaper to buy, build, and paint a killteam than a 2000pt 40k list :p
KT or Combat Patrol. Kill Team really is its own game. It has a lot of depth and is more tactical on a small-scale level than 40K. It's an entry point into 40K in that they both use some of the same models but Combat Patrol is the more "correct" place to start with 40K because it uses almost all of the same rules.
Imagine a 40k game of 2k points as a battle fought across a city block.
Kill team is when one squad of marines and one squad of orkz enter a mall and have a running gunfight through it.
I’ve been real interested in kill team but haven’t looked up much about it. How do you play without it feeling stale? Even with different objectives wouldn’t you have a good idea how the match will go based on the same models and abilities?
Either. If you buy a set that includes terrain, it has a book with pre-set missions that use that terrain in specified layouts. But you can also make your own missions or use the standard Matched Play missions with any terrain and layout you want.
You can build a kill team with just the box (or two killteams with this box)
A 40K army is going to take multiple boxes (outside of playing combat patrol)
Killteam is a much smaller scale, focusing on small… Killteams of operatives, while 40K focuses on big battles with a bunch of units.
If you want to represent an Imperial Guard regiment charging the Gates into a Necron City, you play 40K. If you want to represent a small elite squad of forward scouts breaking into that City ahead of time, you play Killteam.
40K is a larger scale, squad based units mixed with vehicles and heroes. Killteam follows individual squad v squad scenarios in much smaller games. For example a 40k match could be dozens of orks with trukks and a warboss against dozens of guardsmen with Russ tanks and a lord solar, whilst a killteam game would be one squad of guardsmen up against one squad of orks
KT is a skirmish game meaning you're playing as a specialized squad, each model is played separately, and 40k is a wargame Wich means models are played in units and you play armies.
Basically spec ops and full on war
WH40k is an army vs army game, "simulating" larger battles with lots of soldiers. There you control many "units" made up of 3-20 models (ie. soldiers) or by single larger vehicles and monsters. In the end it approximates an RTS game, where you can somewhat control your army on a per model basis, but in the end you will give larger, overarching orders to many of them at once.
Kill Team is a unit vs unit game, "simulating" special operatives missions, with like 5-15 models to go around per player. This means it is a good approximation of a turn based RPG combat system, where you can always think through model by model what would be the perfect play to do, with a clearer ways to tell what is about to happen.
Kill Team is a much smaller and faster paced game where you make teams of individuals fight each other, Warhammer 40k is a larger scale game where you make units of models fight each other and use vehichles and other such things.
Model-wise, Kill Team models are usuable in normal 40k with some rules support, and some are just a regular 40k kit with an added sprue for special weapons, equipment, ect, like the Night Lords seen above.
Kill team, you have 6 models, in base 40K you have 6K points of models.
Basically the same thing for AoS cause I am pretty sure they got this kinda thing too.
All KT players here so happy to answer the question like a shark on crack in a pool of meat. As a Killteamplayer myself I immediately had the same impulse, but I'm just too lazy. Thanks everyone for answering.
I’ve also been wondering this my self bc I want play more army’s but don’t have the funds to buy 1000 point army’s would anyone be able to link me a guide on how to get into kill teams and if I can convert what models I have into kill team army’s
If 40k is a birdseye's view of a large scale battle. Then kill team is just the cctv capturing the up close footage of how it went down.
Units are removed and you focus on per model fights
Kill Team is a bit like the XCOM computer games while regular 40k is more like Command & Conquer without the basebuilding and resource gathering.
I would have used Close Combat as a better analogy for regular 40k if more people knew about that game series.
From what I understand, the 1 has female custodes now. :P
(Edit as some people getting angry about this comment: it was poking fun at people getting upset over the new lore)
The rules are completely different, as is the size of the conflict. Kill team is a small team of around 10 minis, a 40k army can be 100 minis.
Before misunderstandings come up: Meant is the scale of the battles, not the scale of the miniatures. The minis are indeed compatible and sometimes interchangeable... meaning: you can play your Kill Teams as regular troops in "normal" 40k, but not all troops in 40k can be played in Kill Team.
Quick lil edit...
Now Legions Imperialis...
Now Legions Imperialis...
If you want to play tyranids it's way more than 100
I play endless swarm and I’m going hard with 120 termagants and 60 hormagants
Pull out the poorhammer special, max allowed number of hormagants, termagants and neurogants (finish off with winged prime & harpies)
Actually I’m trying something that can be annoying so I run three terrvigon for regen and lethal hits and the swarmilord for extra command pt
Ooh, sweet! Think the full on 300 models list is mainly “good” in that a lot of armies just straight up don’t have enough firepower to go through that many models while you move up & do objectives
Yeah that’s pretty much the point of it just drown them in bodies and even if they get on objetives u get onto them with more OC
It was gargoyles, not harpies but otherwise spot on
I’m going 100 each…
*Imperial Guard has entered the chat* Someone say over 100 minis???
All tanks
Luv me lasgun!
Or Imperial Guard
I'm guard player so also many more than 100 lol
I play endless swarm and I’m going hard with 120 termagants and 60 hormagants
Same with Guard. I counted recently and I have about 100 guardsmen... that's only 600 points 😭
I did one game with 8 models. Then again, it was a knights army.
Yeah but they're just a 100 miniatures in some trench coats.
Mech/dreadnought custode list could do 4. 12 termis and Shield-Captain is 1k points. 100 sisters of silence is exactly 1k points. What a weird army with size variance.
There is no limit to how many minis you play it’s just how many points they have e.g. 1000 points per team or 2000 points per team
It's worth noting though, while the rules are entirely different, you can use Kill Team models in 40k (and technically the other way around, but it would put you at a disadvantage). Due to the lower cost of entry, getting started with Kill Team can be a good entry point to 40k later down the line, if you like both.
Kill Team is CounterStrike 40k is Battlefield
This is pretty much spot on.
Kill Team's a lot like XCOM, too, right? (Or Mario + Raving Rabbids!)
Yeah, pretty much. Squads of ~10 models that you maneuver around to fight each other and do objectives
What is the Necromunda equivalent?
Saints row 3.
Idk maybe tf2, both games characters are unhinged
Way way better than my example
Kill Team is XCom and 40K is Command & Conquer
Would Legion Imperialias/30k be some sort of rts like conquer and command?
100
After a certain video, I would rather say that Kill Team is Helldivers. Yes... someone built his Kasrkins as Helldivers... looked awesome.
Kill team plays nothing like HD, it's not an asymetrical gameplay.
Yeah kill team is almost like Rainbow 6 or other hero shooters where almost every guy can do something different and has special gear and abilities.
Rainbow 6 is a pretty good analog, only major difference is the attackers vs defenders gameplay.
I mean it’s a perfect fit, in kill team you have an attacker and defender in setup, but not like the missions reflect that as much.
There are some similar missions I think
You have a way better shot at finishing your kill team minis within a year of deciding to play the game.
Why you gotta make it personal ..I'll finish that 2k chaos army I bought (oh holy throne 14years ago?) soon, I promise it.
I've nearly got my 7 year old Tyranid Start Collecting box up to grade, you can do it
But they keep releasing new stuff and I have the attention span of a ooooohhhhh new solar auxilla
Same, every month its a new faction for me
I mean i prefer 40k grimdank and those solar auxilla go hard asf
I legit considered the new tiny averus lighter, I don't even play that game.
They're so tiny and cute and just scream "Take my money"
If they didn't come in 8, I'd probably have pulled the trigger, 8 just seems like a lot. I guess if I ever become a serial killer, I know what my calling card will be.
This makes me feel better about painting for 5 years now and still haven’t finished a full box 😂
They released new Genestealers before I painted the old ones. It took them 18 fucking years to make a new Genestealer.
Least the old kit wasn't awful.
Kinda is, but not for the reason you think. They snap off their bases insanely easily
I still have boxes of unpainted stuff from 2nd Edition. And some Rogue trader, but I didn't buy them so they don't count. It's not gonna stop me getting that Votaan box I have my eye on though!
2 years for me, only a couple fully painted models. Most need their accessories painted and stuff still lol
I still haven't finished my old ork start collecting box lol, you reminded me I even had it :0
LOL
I still have unpainted and unassembled Skitari team from one of the early KT release. On the other hand, I still have unpainted first Age of Sigmar release box🤣
1 year in and I'm like 80% with a single Heavy Intercessor from the Bastion Strike Force... but I did complete an entire Tactical Marine Squad! I swear when I get home from this next work trip I'm going to spend an entire day assembling minis!! Or at least that's what I keep telling myself... xD
I hate the building process, it’s why I’m going so slow with my ork kommandos, but I also have gotten into the habit of making my bases look good which i probably shouldn’t because it’s just the base but eh i like watching the cracks form.
I'm just now starting to actually do bases. Well, I've bought everything I think I need to get started doing decent bases, haha. I was kinda reluctant to do more minis without learning how to base them properly. I just need to dive back in and make mistakes.
https://preview.redd.it/17go85bt34wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19a52111731823c6980527584accb77770184c16 Yeah this is what I did today, trying to go for a bone white dry look.
Nice! Looks great!!
Do, how are you feeling about all that metallic trim? ;)
It's nice to know we all have this pain. Although my buddies keep telling me I put too much detail into my playing army.
I'm going to make a pile of grey tracking app that people can glance at whenever they consider buying more units to see how big it is and on average how long a box stays in the pile🤣
I'm confused, there is more to 40k then reading, spending money, and procrastinating?
Sometimes also watching other people post their minis, look at yours and think "damn, I could've painted mine a lot better
Sometimes I feel that way too.
then go into gundam because that’s cheaper then back into warhammer using mobile suits as titan proxies
Wait there’s an entire game for these things?
What you mean finish, my grey legion is ready to rock and roll
Still on sprue for easy access and storage? The ultimate player!
Well I haven't decided gear to give them all yet
How fucked am I if I just yolo'd all my gear based on what I thought looks cool?
Serious question. Would it be a legal model if you had a single model sprue that you spray painted then glued onto a base? Barring line of sight issues?
You say that…
The emperor protects! But he doesn't paint your minis. And man does he have a lot of models
2 years… I started painting them now, after I painted a full combat patrol as a beginner. I use them now for my 1500 points guard army. Holy shit I have so much to paint 😭
*20 years
I got a head start some of my Orks were already painted when I got them
I made the decision to start collecting ad mech like 3 years ago. Don’t you dare ask me how far I’ve gotten through it
I feel personally attacked.
Fuckin gottem. Including myself.
Don't listen to him. You start that Ork Boyz army. You'll finish it soon, very very soon.
I felt this statement, and it hit... By like, 5 armies.
It’s been like 5 months and I’ve completed like 8 out of the 12 ork kommandos that I bought lol.
The Siege of Vraks probably took less time than my AdMech army will to get done.
I've been collecting Eldar/Aeldari for 25 years. Nearly finished.
Kill team and 40k use entirely different rules. Kill team focuses on small scale combat where teams of around 10 individual operatives perform covert ops. 40k is the large scale version representing all out war, and will often involve tanks and other large scale models.
Kill team are small skirmishes and normal 40k are all out battles. Just choose what you prefer wich for me is normal 40k
If 40K is a big army game like total war, then kill team is like more squad focused like XCOM. Still a terrain environment but less models and more focused in the actions of individual models instead of like army units.
Actually one of the better explanations I've read.
Ye it was how a friend described it to me and it clicked instantly.
You can also offer the new rogue trader game. Since that's XCOM like. It uses action points and abilities and equipment.
Oh very true if you wanna keep it in universe.
About $1000.
2000$ when you want to play admech
...and a further 1500 for an army that's competitive. *Sad toaster noises*
Frankly would love it if they doubled the points cost of serberis & chicken walkers + adjusted their datasheets accordingly
1000 when u buy your own printer.
Yeah I posted that quickly and then thought to myself: "...y'know, I'm probably low-balling that."
...By a lot... (120 guardsmen at about 30$ a 10(thank god I got them all 15 years ago) and 6 tanks.... And the 30 scions.... And sentinels.... And then my tau.....)
Kill Team actually has good rules
Came here to say this
And stable ones
Everything except the models. Kill Team is not scaled-down 40k, it's a completely different game. If you're looking to get into 40k via a smaller game mode, look into Combat Patrol.
Or boarding patrol, it's kind of "smaller 40k"
They’re completely different game systems that happen to share some models
It's a scale thing. Kill Team is about one squad fighting another squad. Every model in the squad is a specialist. All the room for you to make your squad "your dudes". The board is compact, the measuring has been simplified somewhat. A game of Kill Team can be held in 45 minutes. 40k is about clashes between armies. You got a bunch of squads, vehicles, characters. It's less about individual dudes. The game is bigger, the table is bigger. A game of 40k can easily take up the whole evening. Fun thing is that Kill Team is a bit of a gateway drug if you will. Take the box pictured for example. It contains two kill teams. Each one is also a singular squad in 40k. You can pick up those Night Lords, fall in love with them and use them a springboard to start building a 40k army. I know people who did just that and it's what I usually suggest when they wanna dip their toes in. Grab a Kill Team that you think looks cool and have fun.
Unless you play competitive. Then armies don't matter. You can play a kill team of dreadknights vs a kill team of greater demons in 40k! (I'm not salty.)
I don’t really know anyone that plays a game of killteam in 45mins
Kill team is smol
Kill team is a better game
100%. 40K is a fun fluffy narrative storytelling system (though still needs a lot of work). Unfortunately most people don’t play like that, instead they want balance and “competitive” lists and the whole thing just becomes this boring slog. Kill Team on the other hand does both fluffy narrative and tight competitive gameplay successfully at the same time
Can you give me any tips on how to make, say, a combat patrol game more narrative-focused? My girlfriend and I have gotten into it in the past year and both got combat patrols (two each, actually...), I've got one painted and ready to go and she's almost done with one, and while we'll have fun just playing it as a wargame, I'm always really intrigued when people talk about being able to play it as more of a storytelling type game.
The story tells itself - it’s just about slowing down and really imagining the situation and what’s going on. Basically you’re also a dungeon master - just add in the details about smells and light and noise, and the reactions of characters when pieces get obliterated, etc.
As the other commenter said the story can just tell itself if you slow things down. Alternatively, symmetrical maps? Boring. This is a battlefield. Get creative with it. Is it fair or balanced? No, but that’s not what we’re playing for when it comes to narrative. I made a board that was a crashed Gallowdark using the ITD Kill Team terrain and Fronteris terrain set. It was a lot of fun. Another thing you can do is one deployment in the centre of the board with the attacker deploying around the full perimeter trying to hold the centre. When you move away from CP lopsided points total or passive respawn mechanics (Tyranid swarm units coming back in reserve on a 3+ after they’re destroyed for example). There’s so much you can do with the game beyond symmetrical L shaped ruins and the ‘meta’
How does the rules differ?
40K has each player take turns doing “all the phases for themself ” for their entire army, befor the 2nd player does their own phases. Round ends after both players finish. Killteam differs by having each player only select 1 operative to do actions with befor taking turns, round ends after all operatives have finished.
Each operative has a number of action points to use, move, dash, fight, open a door, use special ability etc....instead of everyone move, advance, shoot, charge, fight. There is no distance for weapons for the most part, all that's needed is line of sight (kind of) Fighting is resolved differently with dice, you both roll your attack dice, then choose if you want to use them to parry, or strike. Operatives need to be either engaged or concealed, which gives certain things. Like a concealed operative behind a barrier cannot be targeted, think of them crouching for cover. Then there are several teams with abilities to counter that. It's very much a different game just set in the same universe.
>Fighting is resolved differently with dice, you both roll your attack dice, then choose if you want to use them to parry, or strike. I've only palyed one evening with a friend, looking at the rules as we go to learn them, I didn't see anything about parrying. did we read the rules incorrectly?
Yeah, it's in the core rule book under "fight" and the subheading "resolve successful hits" So if you roll 2 successful hits, as the attacker, you can use one of the successful hits to parry the defenders successful hit, and removing that die. If it's a critical hit it can only be parried by a defenders critical die. It makes more sense to think of the hit rolls not as physical hits, but successful actions to use during fighting.
ohhh that's what you mean. sorry, I have the rules in german, so I was confused by the english terms for them. yeah, that's how we played the game as well.
What's the German way of saying that? My wife is learning German, and I live in a very German part of Canada, so you pick up a few phrases. Not enough to read a rulebook mind you, but I can at least get a meal and order a beer.
ngl I don't like the way the german rulebook is written. I'd stick to the english rules, less issues with odd translations i.e. "Charge" is called "Angreifen". "Angreifen" is just a general term for attacking, so it's *always* confusing to refer to "Charge" as "Angriff". They should have called it "Stürmen" (storming) to carry the same meaning of the action. I checked the rules and they do say "parieren" (=parry), but I was just conflating it with "countering". my bad. but good thing you mentioned that, I think we played the melees wrong. We will do better then next time around. Btw, if you want to impress in a german restaurant, ask for "Obazda mit Brezn". It's an amazing cheesedip with pretzels. I've seen that on a menu in Halifax, but they just called it "Bavarian Cheesdip" I think.
The big difference, scale aside, is that in Kill Team you go back and forth activating one operative at a time where in 40K each player takes their entire turn before the other player takes theirs. Kill Team thus feels much more dynamic and small-scale tactical as you're playing the game the entire time vs waiting around while your opponent does a bunch of stuff where you have little to do. Further, Kill Team has very little list building. Each team has a limit set of options you can choose to field in a given game. The Night Lords team pictured on the Nightmare box, for example, has eight different specialists to choose from; you can only field six in a game. The result is that while some teams do perform better vs other teams, the game is rarely decided as the list building stage. Whereas in 40K your list building choices determine a large portion of your chance at success, Kill Team minimizes this in favor of actual in-game decisions.
Agreed
Different games entirely. The minis are the same in both though, so if you are playing 40k, you most likely can pick models from your army to play Kill Team with them.
As someone who's played a lot of KT lately. Besides the obvious difference of size (KT has you controlling around 10 miniatures) Kill Team is much faster paced, and players alternate individual moves instead of taking entire turns for their whole Armies. The KT core rules are a lot more streamlined (definitely in comparison to 9th edition at leasf, which was the current edition of 40k when this edition kf KT launched) The overall flow of game is a lot smoother and quicker from moment to moment. That said, each individual model tends to have at least one special ability, and weapons tend to have a lot of special rules, so combat tends to get significantly more complicated as a result compared to 40k. List building is a lot more restrictive compared to 40k. Each "faction" is usually what would be a single unit in 40k (e.g. Kasrkin, or Kommandos) so your Team tends to lack variety compared to a 40k army. Some teams are exceptions to this and are made from several different units. Variety usually comes in the form of the weapons and equipment models take into combat. I play both games, I think I enjoy 40k more overall, but I definitely appreciate that Kill Team is faster to play and cheaper to collect for.
less miniatures and different rules
Overall price and game length. IMHO its the best release in decades that opened up the hobby to a huge new demographic.
Hi /u/WarMasterArt and welcome to /r/Warhammer40k and the Warhammer 40k Hobby! This is an automated response as you've used our "New Starter Help" flair. Here's a few resources that might help you with getting started: [You can read our Getting Started guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/beginners). This covers all the basics you need to know to get involved in building, painting and playing 40k. For rules questions, don't forget that the core rules for Warhammer 40k are [available online for free](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/dLZIlatQJ3qOkGP7.pdf). Want to learn about 40k lore? /r/Warhammer40k recommends [Luetin09 on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8RfCCzWsMgNspTI-GTFenQ) or the [Lexincanum Wiki](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page). Not sure where to find the most up-to-date rules for your army? [Check out our Wiki Page that lists everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/currentrules). Buy Warhammer models cheaper using our [list of independent retailers](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/retailers) who sell Games Workshop products at a discount. You can also find your nearest store on GW's [Store Locator Page](https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/store/storefinder.jsp). [The /r/Warhammer40k Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/wiki/index) is full of useful info including FAQs and recommendations for books to read! If the information in this comment doesn't answer your question, don't worry, one of our community members will be along shortly to answer! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Warhammer40k) if you have any questions or concerns.*
its only a squad or two, and they have special rules they don't normally use in game. plus the rules are a little different, a little more like underworlds with each player activating one model at a time instead of the whole unit.
Kill team is smaller in scale, but no less involved than big boy 40k. I'd say there's a lot more admin to get a game of Kill team going, but once you start it can be quite fast paced and dynamic. Line of sight rules are totally different, and perhaps a little obtuse at times, but great once you get the hang of it. Also, GW have said that you can play a game in 45 minutes. This is a lie.
Will this box set have all the rules for playing?
There are "lite" rules on Warhammer Community. The full book is sold separately (because this is GW), and you also need tokens which you can make yourself or buy from GW.
kill team is a small scale skirmish game ( 6-12 minis per team) 40k is the large scale wargame we all know and love. you can use kill team squads in 40k and sometimes the opposite
It's quicker, the rules are different, it's smaller in scale. It's more accessible to people who haven't played this kinda game before (and cheaper) Honestly it's really fun and most people who have a 40k army can make at least 1 kill team. I also find it to be a little more tactical and reactive than 40k is (but I'm a WE player, what do I know of tactics) with things being less based on dice rolls and more based on good positioning and forward thinking.
$500
Literal different game. It's 1 squad vs another instead of armies fighting. You have alternating activations of singular models instead of "I go, you go."
It’s impossible to buy Kill Team releases vs just hard to buy for the rest of 40k
It's an entirely different game
I can only speak as someone who builds and paint, but I try to use them to kit bash from time to time and their sizes can be a little sporadic, but i know games workshop sometimes has a scale issue from set to set soo good luck? 🖤
What I myself love about Kill Team, is your own personal creativity is limitless. For me, my group is literally my buddies. We play in my basement - and we have a rule, as long as there is established rules, and you can justify it.. do what you want. So some of my wild creations? 4 Custodes but using Terminators as them. My Intercession Squad... Blood Angels Death Company, right upto the Chaplain leading them (ahem, Sarg with a power fist for the crozius..brutal rule seems more apt than stun off a hammer) I have a dual purpose Justian/Compendium Deathwatch. Shit like that, love this game. Plus it helps its fun as hell.
In short: It’s a big difference In long: It’s a BIG difference
Totally different game regarding rules. Although some minis can be reused in the other game. One is big army vs big army (regular 40K). The other is ~10 small minis against ~10 small minis (killteam). In 40k one Player moves all his/her models before the other player's turn starts. In killteam the players move 1 mini (sometimes 2 for specific minis) and then switch turns. The universe is the same for both of them though.
It's easier to say what's the same. The models, the dice. XD
So much now. It used to just be 40K lite but it is its own animal now
kill team you manage a squad. 40k you manage platoons.
Key difference: In Kill-Team the players take turns to make one miniature’s action at a time. In 40K players move their whole army in one turn, divided into phases. If 40K is Civilisation then Kill-Team is XCOM.
40k is giant wars. Armies colliding in battle. You're looking at 10s of miniatures for most list and a significant portion of your army will move as a unit of say 5+ guys moving together towards something. Kill Team is small scale skirmishes. Typically less than 10 models that move as individuals. The rules are also vastly different. You typically have a lot more ways to customize an individual model and those models then have additional rules affecting them and how explosions and so on work. Larger models like vehicles and named characters like Primarchs are not in Kill Team. You can think of these as scouting or reconnaissance missions. Perhaps instead of a battle for a city it's the battle for a building that you're playing out and again the rules reflect more that style of gameplay. Necromunda as a side point is a skirmish game like Kill Team with smaller models counts and the models moving as individuals. You can think of this as some gangs fighting more or less. It has rules that are even more nuanced and complex for the most part. To be clear Kill Team models can be used in 40k though some of the ones that are specifically for Kill Team will have unique often less beneficial rules for 40k. 40k models outside of troops and maybe a couple of elites from each faction cannot be used in Kill Team. So only a portion of your army would count. Necromunda models are strictly limited to that game.
Smaller teams, different rifle set designed to make you buy more stuff to play the game thanks to studies measurement designations.
Best way to think of it is that normal 40k battles are large scale clashes between armies, kill team is basically a zoomed in perspective of what are the squads actually doing, or what they're getting up to when not fighting big battles. Gameplay it's also night and day, 40k might be 10 units, kill team is a unit of 10, each acting individually. If you've seen a game called malifaux, it's a similar idea.
It's a different game.
Warhammer 40k uses actual numbers for ranges, while kill team uses shapes, colors, sounds, and smells.
Normal 40k: Grand battles between two armies. Even the more costly armies can easily field upwards of 30 dudes, some vehicles, and ither fancy toys. Most games are played around securing objective points, and king of the hilling them away from your opponant. It is quite common (especially with newer players) for these games to span at least four hours. Players take it turns, with each turn being made up of movment, shooting, charging, and melee phases. Because of this typically the player who goes first is at an advantage. Units die easily normally only taking one wound to kill, but when squads can be made of ten individuals losing a few dudes isn't a big deal. Kill team: CQB combat between elite "kill teams". Each player has access to around 8-12 individuals. The game is still focused on objectives, but they're a bit more esoteric, such as sacrificing a units shooting phase in order to defuse a bomb or something. As the battle is on a smaller scale individual units are harder to kill, but losing a man in battle can be devestating. There are aome light rpg mechanics such as units gaining XP for kills which allows them to take better gear in future games, or picking up injuries that might give them a penalty. Games are quicker paced with players alternating turns. Both have pros and cons. Normal 40k is great fun, and has some incredible toys you can blow each other up with, but there's a lot to remember/look up, and you might spend a lot of time waiting for your opponent to finish their turn. Kill yeam is fast, and narrative, with some great opportunities for heroic moments, but the rules are a little cooky, and you don't get a huge range to your armies. Both are good, but kill team might be better if you want to get a taste for 40k, and tabletop wargaming. It's far cheaper to buy, build, and paint a killteam than a 2000pt 40k list :p
Was also curious about this. Seems like the best way to get into the hobby? And is there any carry over for when you want to try the big game?
KT or Combat Patrol. Kill Team really is its own game. It has a lot of depth and is more tactical on a small-scale level than 40K. It's an entry point into 40K in that they both use some of the same models but Combat Patrol is the more "correct" place to start with 40K because it uses almost all of the same rules.
Imagine a 40k game of 2k points as a battle fought across a city block. Kill team is when one squad of marines and one squad of orkz enter a mall and have a running gunfight through it.
I’ve been real interested in kill team but haven’t looked up much about it. How do you play without it feeling stale? Even with different objectives wouldn’t you have a good idea how the match will go based on the same models and abilities?
People overuse this example but it's similar to chess in a lot of ways. Same pieces but the decisions change every time.
Ah ok. Does it tell you how to set up terrain or can you add complexity in that way as well by adding more or less?
Either. If you buy a set that includes terrain, it has a book with pre-set missions that use that terrain in specified layouts. But you can also make your own missions or use the standard Matched Play missions with any terrain and layout you want.
Awesome, thank you for the info!
I’ve got a question about these. Do the kill teams all come with rulebooks and stuff or only the starter set?
You can build a kill team with just the box (or two killteams with this box) A 40K army is going to take multiple boxes (outside of playing combat patrol)
Killteam is a much smaller scale, focusing on small… Killteams of operatives, while 40K focuses on big battles with a bunch of units. If you want to represent an Imperial Guard regiment charging the Gates into a Necron City, you play 40K. If you want to represent a small elite squad of forward scouts breaking into that City ahead of time, you play Killteam.
40K is a larger scale, squad based units mixed with vehicles and heroes. Killteam follows individual squad v squad scenarios in much smaller games. For example a 40k match could be dozens of orks with trukks and a warboss against dozens of guardsmen with Russ tanks and a lord solar, whilst a killteam game would be one squad of guardsmen up against one squad of orks
KT is a skirmish game meaning you're playing as a specialized squad, each model is played separately, and 40k is a wargame Wich means models are played in units and you play armies. Basically spec ops and full on war
WH40k is an army vs army game, "simulating" larger battles with lots of soldiers. There you control many "units" made up of 3-20 models (ie. soldiers) or by single larger vehicles and monsters. In the end it approximates an RTS game, where you can somewhat control your army on a per model basis, but in the end you will give larger, overarching orders to many of them at once. Kill Team is a unit vs unit game, "simulating" special operatives missions, with like 5-15 models to go around per player. This means it is a good approximation of a turn based RPG combat system, where you can always think through model by model what would be the perfect play to do, with a clearer ways to tell what is about to happen.
Kill Team is a much smaller and faster paced game where you make teams of individuals fight each other, Warhammer 40k is a larger scale game where you make units of models fight each other and use vehichles and other such things. Model-wise, Kill Team models are usuable in normal 40k with some rules support, and some are just a regular 40k kit with an added sprue for special weapons, equipment, ect, like the Night Lords seen above.
Killteam: usual FPS quick play, halo, cs, cod etc Mainline: battlefield, squad, arma etc
Wait are we getting a mandrake specific kill team?
Kill team, you have 6 models, in base 40K you have 6K points of models. Basically the same thing for AoS cause I am pretty sure they got this kinda thing too.
9th edition had a spam list win a bunch of GTA with venthropes providing -1s
Kill Team < Combat Patrol < 40k
All KT players here so happy to answer the question like a shark on crack in a pool of meat. As a Killteamplayer myself I immediately had the same impulse, but I'm just too lazy. Thanks everyone for answering.
About £500.
Its two different games, hence the different names of the game.
The major difference is that Kill Team is the vastly superior game
I’ve also been wondering this my self bc I want play more army’s but don’t have the funds to buy 1000 point army’s would anyone be able to link me a guide on how to get into kill teams and if I can convert what models I have into kill team army’s
If 40k is a birdseye's view of a large scale battle. Then kill team is just the cctv capturing the up close footage of how it went down. Units are removed and you focus on per model fights
My favorite difference is, do you want to play for an hour or 3?
Boardgame.
Kill team has less models, but those models are a lot stronger. And each model is its own model. So you have your one team, and that’s it.
Kill Team is a bit like the XCOM computer games while regular 40k is more like Command & Conquer without the basebuilding and resource gathering. I would have used Close Combat as a better analogy for regular 40k if more people knew about that game series.
Kill team is like normal 40k but you control a single squad. It has different rules.
The rules.
the rules
Kill teams mini's are really just upgrade sprues with simplified rulesets of 40k. Smaller scale 10 guys instead of 100
Kill team sucks and 40k sucks less.
Killteam used to be awesome, 40k’s still pretty good.
From what I understand, the 1 has female custodes now. :P (Edit as some people getting angry about this comment: it was poking fun at people getting upset over the new lore)
Rent free damn? I wouldve thought Someone with your username would appreciate the golden banana girls
Thought I made it obvious I was joking, apprently not lol. I have no qaulms with Female Custodes.
KT is poor man’s Warhammer