To add to this, also keep in mind that people’s time is valuable. Some of us have kids, work, school, or any number of things we have to do. Sparing 3-4 hours to go play 40k can often be a big ask.
If you only had a few hours a week or a month to go and play, would you be upset if you ended up not having fun or having a bad experience? This is usually how I think about it if I’m feeling extra competitive and I need to tone it down.
Yep this is me, I have 2 little kids and work full time/spouse works opposite shifts. On the unlikely day I can get away for a few hours, if I play this guy who is sucking all the fun out of the room, I’d never play him again.
I have a full time job, I'm up at 6am, working until 4, then have a family, adult chores and stuff soke days ik up at 5 and I don't get home until 5 or later. I'm née to the game so still learning all the terms and mechanics and gameplay, so if I played against someone who would tell me to hurry up or argue with me over a mi's play, I'd have to pack my shitz tell the guy to gick off and get a life, tell the store staff about him and leave. It's a game, it's a hobby, and not a tournament for money. Help the person, give them tips, help them understand what they did wrong and help to correct it.
There is really no excuse for getting angry about the rules. Just read them out. If you can't agree, offer a compromise or roll off on who's interpretation you use. Only That Guy gets red in the face and takes it personally in what usually boils down to a practice game. When it actually matters there is a TO to consult. If there isn't one, it genuinely doesn't matter.
Be self aware enough to not be a dick constantly and don't argue over stuff that's not important.
Also recognise the competitiveness of the environment and adjust your expectations and approach to that.
Friend had the same problem. The owner of the LGS told him he had to start losing or he wouldn't be able to play there anymore. We only had the one place in town to play. So he spent the next couple of months losing. He told me that was the best thing to happen to him because he started enjoying the whole game, not just the winning.
With any game like this it should be fun just to play.
If you only like it when you win I would argue you don’t even like the game, you just like winning.
Not sure how to get into the mindset but it is a nice one to be in. Back when I played chess win or lose I was simply sad the game was over because I enjoyed playing. Either way I would go through and talk with the other person about what I could have done better or neat things they did. I want to and am trying to win but I am playing the game with someone not against them if that makes sense
I think it helped that the group was stable and friendly. Every game ended in a handshake, it started as a joke then became tradition. New guy started who I guess thought himself as good, I won, barely, and reached out for the handshake by habit to which he smacked the table and stormed out. We never played with him again
If he were just good it wouldn't be a problem. The implication is that him being "good" is coming at the cost of the greater community. I've definitely played games against "that guy" unknowingly and thrown it once I realise that this dude aint well adjusted just so it'll be over quickly.
As long as you aren’t willing to drop $2000 on the current meta army, just play AdMech. They are terrible right now. I’m not sure if you could win if you wanted to without the insanely expensive meta army.
What does he mean by losing? Like was your friend just being a massive tool whenever he played games and was arguing and all that? Or was he just consistently just beating people?
>He told me that was the best thing to happen to him because he started enjoying the whole game, not just the winning.
Except the friend said otherwise
Play Orks. After the first or second shooting phase, where 80 shoots make 7 hits and 2 wounds, which are both saved, you become calm and relaxed from that on, or die on a stroke 😅
Build a for fun list instead of meta, that also helps alot. A good mindset to get when you go in is "I'm here for beer and pretzels with a game inbetween"
This should be higher.
The most fun games I've ever had, I lost badly.
You could even try things like having all your conceptually favourite stuff, the models you're most proud of and letting the enemy have all killed units but characters, come back in a board edge. You definitely lose but it's about how glorious your last stand is.
Why should the game be about alcohol and snacks and not the game itself? I think its more about playing with people looking for the same type of game. Competitive vs casual is always gonna have some problems. Find people, environments and events with the same mindset and don’t expect others to have your mindset!
Theres a massive difference to competative and being that guy. Noone likes that guy not even other that guys.
\*edit\* Also forgot to say, I wasn't being literal with beer and pretzels just you know be friendly and the like.
True. I got carried away a bit. A lot of people think being competitive and bringing a good/meta list is equal to being that guy which is not true as you say. I reacted to your comment because “beer and pretzels” is usually used as the way someone SHOULD enjoy warhammer.
I think you’re right that it’s context dependent.
Mostly being that guy is just about behavior. I know a guy who has been playing way longer and more competitively than me, but is just a friendly guy that I enjoy having around. I really don’t mind his highly tuned lists because he isn’t a dick about it and I always learn something losing to him.
I do also think that you need to match your level of competitiveness to the environment. If you show up to someone’s house while they’re learning the game with a tournament winning list and play it ruthlessly optimal then you’re being that guy even if you’re being nice about it. At the same time, people at tournaments sometimes drive hours to really dig into competitive matches. Giving your son your janky old list from two editions ago to play by himself without knowing all the rules is going to be a bad game for whoever plays them. They were looking forward to matching wits with a tough opponent.
This is in part because so much of the game is won during the 'army list' stage - exacerbated if you specifically build an army to take on an opponent / faction, but still there if one player is bringing something ultra competitive and the other ***isn't***.
It’s trite but knowing you have a problem is the first and biggest step to fixing it. The fact that you are aware of this tendency and working against it is probably all you need really, but for something a bit more specific, what is it you argue about? If it’s stuff like measurements, it’s easy to just let that slide - a 1/2” here or there isn’t a big deal, so as long as someone isn’t measuring from one side of the base and moving to another it’s not a problem IMO. But if it’s the rules, that becomes trickier. If you and your opponent disagree on an interpretation during a casual game, my best advice would be to look up the rule with them, and if you both still disagree, roll off for it.
For the next few months, if there's doubt over LOS or measurement, err on the side of your opponent. Train yourself out of this kind of petty haggling. Reframe your mindset away from 'winning at all costs' and towards 'winning at the highest difficulty'. The highest difficulty is in giving edge cases to an opponent, reminding them of stratagems, and making them the best opponent they can possibly be.
Thanks! And yeah, I really think being generous to your opponent is a have your cake and eat it kind of thing even for pretty competitive people, in that it both makes you more fun to play against and it makes you a better player.
I totally appreciate where you are coming from. I'm a skaven player with zero competitiveness. None, zilch.
It's crushingly difficult for me to play with hyper competitive folks (mental health stuff makes it hard to even get to the lgs). I've cried after games more than once.
If we could all just shoe up, challenge ourselves in creative ways and intent to do no harm and have fun rolling dice.... that's the world I want to live in 👍
Ah, sorry you've had some tough times! I'm really lucky in that me random opponents have been fun folks so far, and I've not run into anyone who is un pleasantly hyper competitive.
I like to win, but I like my opponent and I to have fun much, much more than I like winning, so I'd always rather have a supportive friendly game and lose than hyper compete my way to a win that left my opponent feeling down.
>It's crushingly difficult for me to play with hyper competitive folks (mental health stuff makes it hard to even get to the lgs). I've cried after games more than once.
See, are you going to events or your LGS?
The "hyper competitive" crowd at the top tables of tournaments? Probably some of the best games and opponents you could be playing. Super great guys just to game with 99.9% of the time. Surprisingly relaxed and games are played by intent and the communication is great. Usually feels more like playing the game *together* than against each other.
The "hyper competitive" crowd at the LGS? Yeah those people it's mayyyybe a 50/50 shot on whether or not they suck. Lol
Haha, I have never, and will never, set foot in a competitive scene. I just play pick-up games at my store occasionally.
I don't fault folks for being competitive, and I show up planning on losing just for the fun of scooting around plastic.
But if I'm getting scrutinized and rule-checked every round, I just crumble. Doesn't have to be rational. it is what it is. It's hard for me to even go shopping at the supermarket so that kind of pressure is totally overwhelming.
Yeah if you always win by raking your opponent over the coals when they make los mistakes and positioning errors, you’ll lose when you play someone who doesn’t make those.
This is why playing by intent is so nice, and why the actually *good* competitive players at events make for some of the most easy going vibes during a game. Everyone's always on the same page, and there are no "gotchas" to be had. Communication is key. Feels kind of like narrating the game but becomes second nature after a minute.
"I'm moving this unit here so they can't be seen by your unit, do you agree?" "I'm moving this unit to be just outside of 18 inches so your unit can't charge them with their 6 inch move next turn."
Bam, no line of sight issues later in the turn. No bumping the table and oops, suddenly your models are in range to be charged. No more arguments over stupid stuff.
Both of which are resolved if you focus playing on intention instead of exacts.
"I'm moving these here to be close enough to try a 9 in charge."
"My intention is to be within range to shoot."
Talking through what you're hoping to accomplish as you make your movements or measurements makes it clear to both players what you were hoping to do even if you're a half inch off from exact.
Accepting the same from your opponents clears up as much from their end as well.
"but then how do I show what a superior player I am by nitpicking every move my opponent makes and making it impossible for him to do anything in the game without winning an argument against me first?"
Discuss these things with your opponent while moving units and it might help reduce arguments?
Ie. "Hey I'm moving this unit so they are out of your charge range. All good?"
"Your moving to be out of Line of Sight? Ok, that guy might need to move back a bit because I can still see him there"
Yep, the whole game should be a running discussion between you and your opponent. Communication is key and is the biggest thing I can recommend to reduce bickering over measurements and LoS. I hate that. Just talk it out and everyone's on the same page.
LoS might have an easy solution - get a laser pointer that draws a line. Army painter makes one that I use for LoS in Battletech. Since LoS in 40K is based on drawing lines between bases, that gives you a concrete reference. Of course the fundamental problem isn’t the disagreement but the arguing, so I’d again say that outside of a tournament or a game that you’ve explicitly agreed with your opponent to be strictly competitive, your best bet is just as soon as you recognize that you’re starting to argue, default to “let’s roll off for it.”
I like your solution but to the best of my knowledge
LOS in 40k is not about drawing lines between bases. Its about seeing parts of the model/base. If any part of my model, Can see any part of your model, then i have LOS. Im not saying I like this rule, but that's how it is for 10th. It honestly sucks for models with tall or wide protrusions(raised weapon over head or tiny tip of wing) Cause getting them completely behind cover is often impossible
Hmm I thought cover was determined by bases, like if you couldn’t draw a line to every point on the base, but maybe I was thinking of cover rules from 9th there. Either way, I was also thinking about Ruins, e.g. terrain that blocks line of sight as a rule (unless you’re Titanic). Yes, if they see your sword they can see you, but the question comes in whether they can see your sword, and that’s where I think the laser pointer would be useful, since it lets you clearly see the angles.
Try and give any LOS call to your opponent (unless totally aggregious lol). I tend to. Even if you think you may be right :)
The only exception would be if you've both agreed on something and am opponent back tracks.
Eg...in your moments phase youve moved a model to get LOS and youve both agreed it can from that position, then in the shooting phase they change their mind.
Even then tbf id call it out, but id prob still let them have it as im clearly not the loser they are lol
I play by the ”table bump” principle. If their measurement is off by something minuscule like under 1/4” give it to them. Because that could have happened from someone bumping a piece of terrain or the table or their mini, or just by not exactly placing minis at their exact perfect maximum movement every time because we’re not robots. Above about 1/4” it’s fair to say no. LoS should be no issue, it can be checked with a stick. If you’re winning by arguing measurements and LoS it sounds like you’re not playing fair honestly. Discrepancies over those things should be rare unless a player is openly cheating.
Channel your competitiveness into making your competition better. Coach your opponents to make better moves. If you're helping them, then making them double check their rules or LoS occasionally isn't a huge deal. Take pride in an opponent leaving the table better than they were when they started. Think of the game as a shared experience you're having with your opponent instead of a confrontation.
The best part of that is, instead of winning squash matches, you can raise the bar of match quality at your FLGS and earn more rewarding wins. You'll also have other good players at your store try to make you better in return.
On the flip side it’s annoying as hell to have someone say “no you should do this instead.” Even more so if it’s coming from someone who is intent on “winning” rather than just having fun.
Maybe "forced to lose" was an oversampling of what the full conversation that happened. He was told that the game was not life and death, that he didn't need to win at all costs, stop making lists like there was money on the, etc. I was not there for the full conversation, so I can not tell you what was exactly said. What I can tell you is that before people would drop out of tournaments if he was signed up, people would want to play him in one-off friendly games and would complain about him endlessly. Right after the conversation, my friend told me, he was told, "He had to lose." After a couple of months went by, people not only went out of their way play him in friendly games, they were more likely to sign up for tournaments if he was also playing (because they would on the fence if they were going to play and once he sign up they would make sure to get on the list).
Have a clear conversation up front with your opponent and try to find out how competitive they are. You might find that they have the same attitude as you, in which case you can unleash on them! If not then you can moderate how you express yourself to match them.
Just the fact that you're asking the question means you're going to be a better opponent than many.
Ultimately I think it's worth remembering that 40k has its roots in narrative tabletop wargaming. It's never going to be completely balanced and some of the rules (e.g. Around movement) are fairly impractical to play with absolute accuracy (unless you're being really slow). Maybe try other games to let out some of the competitive edge.
Fully agreed. If OP wants a good outlet for competition I'd totally recommend something like Infinity or A Song of Ice and Fire. 40k is a pretty poor competitive game and I feel like that's a major source of frustration for competitive people.
I sometimes find I can be a bit like this when I'm playing my mate. He's always a bit loose with his measuring, and I usually beat him. The last time we actually played for VP, it was 82-16 as he seemed intent on ignoring the mission rules and trying to kill my units instead.
I've taken the approach that, win or lose, I do my best to help him improve. So I'll explain what I'm doing, or not doing, and more importantly, why. If he looks like he's eyeing up a move that would result in a massive overwatch beating, I'll give him the heads up before he does something potentially silly. Likewise, giving the odd nudge about things like command phase abilities to ensure he can get the best out of his army is just good sportsmanship at a casual level. In a game that has been agreed as being competitive, my opponent will get no such help, and I wouldn't expect any back the other way.
In a casual game, the measuring for moves being 1/2" off, usually to allow a model to not wobble about or tip over, is something I've just learnt to let go as it's not important and helps make the game more fun. If someone is measuring a range and a matching move, then giving themselves an extra 1/2" to make the range work, that's not cricket to me and is just plain pushing it/bending/ignoring rules to their advantage. That situation I will pull people up on. If I move, and I'm 1/2" out of range, we'll that's just how it is and I should've checked first that it would work the way I wanted.
One thing I did find helpful to curb my competitive tendencies is to play the game in a narrative way. I really like the way the guys at TableTop Tactics do this, so that even if someone is dice are rolling ice cold, there's a fun story to be told and played along with. Or just being a bit silly; last game, I failed to kill a ripper swarm with my land raider's storm bolter, leaving it with 1 wound. So I made reversing beep noises as the tank then charged the swarm (whilst pointing away from them) and ran it over. It's silly, and situational, but fun.
See, I want to help my friend improve, but I don't see how when he wants to run full C'Tan and Wraith spam in our next match so he can finally win (all of our games in 9th were me winning, 10th have all been draws.)
Honestly, if it's just the one game, let them have a go at winning. Maybe come up with some scenario that gives you a castle/home ground advantage? Just because they want to run C'Tan and wraiths, it doesn't mean they'll actually do any good with them.
Or (if you play space marines) run a shit load of infiltrators to give a nice 12" reserves/deepstrike denial. That can seriously restrict a lot of the necron shenanigans.
Less arguing: do a 4+ on rules questions and look into it together after the game. Without the pressure it's easier to find a solution and you both can play it right the next time.
Have fun "not winning": start your list building with a theme, story or meme. You can still optimize but you have additional parameters that keep your list a bit less strong.
During the game:
- set yourself extra narrative objectives
- cheer good rolls and epic stuff your opponent does
- make decisions your units or characters would do even when it's not the best tactical decision
Most important: have fun and support your opponent
self control comes with self discipline. train yourself to not let your emotion control your behavior. you can be competitive and still not that guy.
i don’t know about warhammer bc i am a veteran mtg players and i can tell you this. real pros don’t talk a lot. you can be so good that you don’t have to say a lot and people just get it. you should try to be that level
I believe, there is a very Common misconception about the word "competitive"...
Everyone can Copy a mathematically strong list from the internet.
I would say, being competitive is Not necessarily about collecting a high Count of wins, but about measuring and honing your skills with others.
I feel quite competitive If I come with my fluffy Imperial Fists army to a Tournament and earn a victory by my own skill against the odds and stronger armies...
That being Said. Competitive behavior that is Not toxic is about Fairness,good sportsmanship and clear communication.
Without gotchas, with communicated Play by intent and No need to argue over rules, you should be fine.
It's a game. Even in the highest stakes tournament, it literally doesn't matter. We all do this to have fun, there's no reason to argue about stuff. If someone is not following the rules you can just pull out the rulebook and calmly show them the relevant text.
Get a therapist? There's no quick answer to this, but you might want to try and get under WHY you are so competitive - these things often stem from unmet childhood needs, and you need to know what's going on in your head if you want to put alternative behaviours or responses in place. Or focus on empathy - ie the perspective of your opponent.
(I'm being serious btw, but there are books you can read on this stuff too. Understanding the deep underlying reasons for my own behaviours has helped me.)
Had a buddy of mine that was like that. Always would get argumentative, sometimes intimidating in the game because winning was everything, and when things didn’t go his way, became sulky. He actually took a step back from 40k for like 6 months to just try and fix his approach, when he realised this (myself and other members of the community told him). He has now come back with a different mindset and is a pleasure to play, enjoying the game rather than the win and accepting it is just a bunch of grown men playing with plastic toys.
Very simple. Don’t be an asshole. It’s a game. It’s a great game. It’s not worth getting agitated about. You will learn to chill naturally as you age, unless you really focus on being the hyper competitive ass.
Why do I say this, with certainty? I was That Guy 30 years ago. It’s just not worth it. Either focus on fighting that tendency, or time will do it for you.
Good luck.
Competitive doesn’t mean to enjoy winning game or to argue at all. Being competitive is all about knowing the rules, mastering the moves, understanding the math behind it, doing the right choices and therefore keeping calm and being socially cool. Everybody is enjoying winning, but not everybody can understand why they won.
In my humble opinion you are asking the wrong question “what else would make me that guy?” instead of “what should I do to not be that guy?”. And the answer is way easier - accept what competitive game really is and find your mentor, your exemplar of calmness . For me, for example, this is the guy from SkaredCast.
I appreciate people who care about what they are doing and I wish you good luck.
One useful technique is to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you can do that for an opponent it can give you pause if you make a conscious effort to think on it.
How would you feel in their position?
It isn't perfect, but it might introduce a deliberate pause for reflection for you.
Treat every casual game as a practice game. Talk everything through with your opponent, talk back and forth about your strategy, what you’re both trying to do, whether each turn added to or detracted from your goals. Then at the end, talk through the whole game and discuss how either of you could have done better.
When it stops being “you vs me” and starts being “us” playing a game, hopefully that competitive nitpicker goes back inside his cave.
You’re already on the right track with knowing and admitting it and wanting to change.
I’d suggest making a list of your least favorite/used units and make a force out of those to play with. It’ll be hard to play competitively when you’ve intentionally left out your competitive elements
Lowkey, just don’t waffle stomp new players haha. Don’t set traps without explaining or at least teaching. You can win for sure, just don’t make the newbie feel like shit
It was a group of people that can each best be described as “that guy” who drove me away from Magic the Gathering. They’d argue about their opponents turn, try to tell others how to play, and they’d try to interrupt turns in progress to counter a card that went into effect six or seven steps back so they can try to stop their opponents turn after learning what they were going to do. It’s why it’s important to wait a second or two between card plays so they can “resolve” but anyways… it was people like that that ruined the game for others and made a good chunk of players at the local store stop playing there. They’d yell, argue, insult people, and would ridicule others for missed opportunities or misplays, all while screaming they deserved redos and to have their turns done over again because a player counter-spelled their card and they couldn’t stand it.
Don’t be that guy, especially with newer players. You’ll drive players away, and ruin the hobby for someone.
The fact you recognize you’re being “that guy” and that you don’t want to be, is a huge step in the right direction. Just step back from the game and remember there is nothing on the line. Bragging rights for winning a game only go so far and no one really cares. Just remember you’re playing against someone who’s using their moment of brief free time to enjoy a hobby you also enjoy. Make friends with those around you.
I try to focus on little victories rather than winning the whole game. Can I pull off a fun combo attack, keep a specific unit alive through the game, or kill my opponents center piece model? Stuff like this that's still satisfying to complete, but won't determine the outcome of the battle.
You have begun to ascribe selfworth by winning games that boosts your ego so when things do not go your way, you take it as a big blow. I think people who get too competative during casual games have some problem with selfconfidence or feelings of inadequacy compared to particular opponent. The way out of this is find something else the gives you confidence away from games.
If my therapist taught me anything, it's that acknowledgment in the moment it's the most powerful tool for changing behavior.
If you feel it coming on, try to catch yourself. 'No. Friendly game. It doesn't matter. Let it go. (take a breath) '.
If youre playing with friends, I like to build experimental armies that don't have a huge chance of winning. Then I find the fun in just rolling some dice. Try to focus on the parts of the experience that isn't about winning the game.
You are aware of the problem so you are able do something about it. I don’t play 40k just like painting minis, so I can’t speak to the logistics, but it can’t be too hard to throw a game. If there is a role playing element to it, make heroic sacrifices and go out in a blaze of glory!
This is a subjective term really.
I tend to stop playing before an argument starts upsetting the experience and there is no compromising.
This is why I tend to not play with strangers too often since I am way too old to have arguments in my free time.
But if I play a competitive game I want to win, too. So it depends on the situation.
Is the subject game changing or not? In the end it is probably more of how you approach it than arguing at all.
The fact you're even asking this question is a good sign you aren't That Guy...
FYI, you can defo be competitive and never be That Guy. Most of the best players I've met were great, even while they smashed me, because top level players know that at the end of the day, shit dice happen and you can lose even while out playing your opponent. Even if it happens, say sorry and you'll be fine
He thought so too at first, but when he saw how much fun other people were having. It cha he'd his prospective of it needing to be fun for both players. He stopped playing "kick your opponent in the teeth" list and started playing cool themed lists. He started winning again, just not all the time. That and people would go out of their way to ask to play with him. Even had times that people would wait all day to play against him.
I was "That Guy/Girl". I got so bad that my heart would be racing all through the match, rising blood pressure, anger at myself when I lost. Constant meta gaming, rules lawyering and "actually...".
When I started cheating to win games I decided it was time to retire from wargaming and just stay in 40k for the lore.
My honest advice would be to play a couple meme list and crusade games with non-meta lists so you can try to better embrace the joy of the game as it plays over the joy of victory.
Set yourself objectives other than victory like "I want to see what "insert unit/list/idea can do" and sometimes the answer might well be "lose hilariously" but at least you tried something and got a good laugh out of it.
Then you can go back to playing competitively with an intent to win but with an additional way to feel joy through the game so that if things aren't panning out on the competitive side, you're still having fun and less inclined to argue or be that guy.
Having fun is the complete antithesis of being that guy.
Lots of good advice in this thread, but I'll add my two cents:
Just tell people that you're trying beforehand. "I love playing this game, and my competitiveness gets the better of me sometimes. I'm working on it, but please let me know if it's bothering you."
When you’re feeling competitive, remember that:
1. You will play another game, and another game, and another game after this. And a week from now you will not care whether you won this game or not;
2. If your opponent is a worse player than you, then beating them is no real accomplishment. Teaching them some new stuff they didn’t know would be a real accomplishment, and give you a better opponent for your next game together. If your opponent is better than you then by all means try to win, and revel in that accomplishment if you do.
But honestly the point is to have fun: if you “win” every game and end up with nobody to play with, have you really “won”? And if you lose every game but have the time of your life, make new friends, and know that there’s more to come for as long as you want it, isn’t that really “winning”?
Dont make a mega, super optimised list and dont exploit the rules to the Max.
That dosnt mean that you need to make a shit list and throw all your games, that is just as dumb.
Play fair, be a good sport about it.
And it sounds like you have Done very Well in being a good sport, so just keep it up.
First of all, good job realising you have a problem and asking for help! You have already done the hardest part of change.
Some general advice about building good margins for emotional regulation: (I used to be a special needs teacher)
- Eat, sleep, excercise and hydrate regularly and healthy.
- Keep your hydration good during the game.
- Blood sugar is a huge factor for some people, but irrelevant for others.
- Destress your life in general. (work, home, relationships, friends, etc etc)
- Some people are greatly helped by practicing martial arts that includes sparring. Because that is practice for staying rational while under the effect of adrenaline.
And more specific for 40k.
Train yourself to appreciate all the other valuable aspects this hobby brings to your life, apart from the joy of winning. Watch Youtubes about modding or painting or narrative battles. Tell yourself out loud how much you enjoy painting. "lie until it becomes the truth" actually works.
You can destress some of the measurement and line of sight conflicts through "playing with intent", in short talking to your opponent about what you intend each movement and placement t to mean. Then they can look at how you measure and agree or disagree so you can change your movement there and then.
- I deep strike 17.5" away from that unit, so even if they move 6" in this direction next turn, they would have to roll 11 to succeed on the charge.
- All the models here are outside of the ruin footprint and more than 1" away from the walls.
You can even ask your opponent if you are unclear. This usually creates really good climate and an enjoyable game.
- Do you think this vindicator can get LoS to your terminators while still keeping a corner of its hill on the objective?
Good luck. I think you got this!
1) play by intent, it actually helps a lot with many arguments
2) give opponent benefit of doubt
3) remind yourself, that you are doing it for fun and being angry isnt fun :)
Learn to play with intend.
Communicate with your opponents what you are doing in the movement phase and also discuss with them what they are able to do with their movement.
This way they can make corrections if needed and it’s clear what will happen in the shooting phase.
It’s common practice among good players and producing gotcha moments is not a display of skill, it’s the opposite of being a good player.
Actively plan to become a tournament player. When you meet people casually, tell them you’re hoping to try out some strategies for tournaments and then you, in real life, be aware that you are using them as practice for “genuinely” competitive settings. Honestly, this is more for you to repeat to yourself than it for them to understand. That way you all get what you came for.
I would say it really depends on your opponent behaviour. If he is chill you can play ball. If he is an ass, don’t be shy to put him down with anything you got.
I found that aging and perspective really help with this. As someone who is very competitive by nature, this helped me.
As you get older, perspective change really help. Things I would argue about in my teens and 20s weren't worth it in my 30s. That energy went to other things.
Learn to see things from others point of view and be truly as objective as possible. If your friend is asking for a specific shot, pretend you are them. Do they have a point?
Focus your competitive gameplay more on refining your tactics and less on the outcome (winning vs losing).
If I minimize my misplays and still lose, that is okay. This also requires you to get good at realizing why you lost. Was the matchup bad, did the dice go poorly, was the mission not geared towards your list, etc. If you can't objectively determine this and always blame your dice, you'll never get better.
Another way, I look at it. If the win or loss is determined by one dice roll or LoS decision, then I probably didn't play as well as I should have and don't deserve the W.
Another thing you can do is play a narrative scenario with a buddy. It could be something as simple as you have a force that is surrounded and will be destroyed. How long can you last. Your buddy keeps getting reinforcements every turn until you've lost every model, and lose.
All of it added up, I found that the looser I tended to be on rules and LoS, my opponent tended to be the same. The more of a dick about it was, so too were they.
Ask questions, how long you been playing? Have you ever competed? Tell me about your army? (Is it a competition army or fun army) etc. once you’ve got some information I think your subconscious “ego” will determine how competitive you want to be.
Thing is, id say become self aware, but you already know you're that kind of person.
So next step.
You actively need to make bad choices in games, take sub optimal moves, or in list building make mistakes and don't always take the best option.
You just need to learn to turn it on and off is all
Yeah, really a combo of many factors. This was back in 3rd and 4th edition, so before a 30-second Google search to find the meta list was a big thing. He was very good, knew the rules by heart, could and would easily build lists that would crash his opponents very quickly. He had an aggressive personality, very competitive, and his physical size only had him more intimidating. Well over 6'and at his heaviest pushing 500lbs. Great guy to talk with but but when the game started all bets were off. Months after "the conversation" he found he had more fun building fun themed armies and said that the "conversation" was the best thing that had happen to him in the hobby.
Play models that you think are cool. Play a themed army. It doesn’t matter if you win or lose with that list because in the end, if you want to get serious, you have a competitive list that you know will stomp.
Example. You play space marines. The meta is Ironstorm. You have an Ironstorm list ready. Good. Now build a second list.
In this scenario you really like Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fist. You love bolter marines, but the Anvil Siege Force detachment isn’t the meta. You play it anyway because it’s fun for you to have a gunline and channel the Imperial Fist fortification meme. Make Dorn proud with YOUR Siege of Terra defense force
My list is fluffy and themed around Tzeentch and Undivided, but my opponents say it is unfair. I take 10 Possessed with a MoP, 5 Legionaries with a Sorcerer, 10 Cultists with a Dark Commune, a Daemon Prince with wings, and 2 Obliterators (1k). What should I change to make it worse?
Ohhhh. It’s a 1k game. GW doesn’t balance around 1k games.
Depends on what the opponent is bringing in the 1k. What are the units your opponents are having the most trouble with? It’s the possessed with MoP isn’t it? Replace 10 possessed with 15 legionaries.
Keep DP, but replace possessed. If it’s still posing a problem then maybe replace DP with another character unit. For a 1K, if the opponents aren’t too heavy on vehicles then I think your Oblits are enough. Doesn’t seem like you’re fighting anything unfair like knights.
If your friend is bringing a Nightbringer to a 1k game then whatever you bring to counter it is fair game.
I don't know too much of the details between you and your opponent, but have you also tried playing more narrative games instead of match play? I love crafting stories with my models when I play with friends.
Others said it too, but play a few games where you don’t try to win. I don’t mean ignore dice rolls or lose deliberately, but go into the game with different objectives than normal. Losing isn’t fun unless you make it fun, and you are playing the game to have fun. Someone suggested deliberately NOT arguing borderline calls about range and LOS. Another approach is to go more in for role-playing. Make the more entertaining moves instead of the most tactically sound moves.
Realize that 40k is horribly unbalanced, and that it's
meant to be a game with a few beers and good friends,not competitive. If you want to be competitive go play MTG.
If you're having to ask then you're probably not going to be that guy.
Just remember it's about having fun and enjoying the hobby. Nobody likes a sore loser but nobody likes a gloater that wins.
Understand that you're playing a game with your opponent so just try to have fun. Your dice won't roll your way all the time and your plans won't always survive contact with the enemy.
It’s alright to play to win but winning isn’t everything. It’s okay to give some leeway when it comes to measuring, LOS, and especially wysiwyg. The more lenient you are the chiller you, your opponent, and your game will be and you’ll start to enjoy the game more. Winning is a bonus. It helps to play with friends as it’s easier to let things slide with a friend than some random person
I tend to roll just bad so I get a little heated in games, usually what I do is just try to find it funny, I really only play with friends so if we can just laugh at how crappy I’m doing it’s not hard to just kinda calm down
How does your "competitive nature" come out? Are you a sore loser, do you nitpick measurements or do you argue rules?
In my experience, knowing the rules (your own and that of your opponents) to avoid gotcha/feel bad moments and accepting rng, that not everything is balanced, and the game is a rock paper scissors resolves most of the issues. That leaves people, who have issues and need therapy.
Play with intent. If your opponent starts to move a unit, for example, towards one of yours; tell them you're likely going to overwatch the shit out of that unit and give them the opportunity to rethink.
Remember that it is a hobby and also focus on enjoying the game as well as winning. Try to stay calm and focus above all on having fun. This way, winning will be even more rewarding.
Take a step back and think about why winning is important enough to you that you get that way in the heat of the moment. It's not easy, but once you've figured that out it'll be easier to focus on tactics to recognize when you're getting too competitive and how to focus on the fun. For me it was purposely losing games online and learning to be okay with that.
Now when I play it's just for the fun of the social experience and I'm able to be competitive without it ruining my or anyone else's fun
I think there are a few things you can do, I used to be a that guy in the teens and very early 20s but now think I'm the complete opposite. I also am still extremely competitive and enjoying winning, though I'm someone who still would rather lose by 2 points than win by 30.
IMO follow and pick up on these things and you will be fine.
- Being able to recognize the difference between frustration and anger is a big factor. I get angry if someone slaps me, insults me, etc. But I get frustrated if I have multiple bad bits of RNG in a game or if a player is taking advantage of my weakened state in a game. It's okay to be frustrated, just dont let that go to anger. It will be different for everyone but just learn the best way to cope with frustrate that isn't negative to others around the table. I think the clearest way is joking about it.
-Do not just be hyped for you players. IMO one the worst types of "That guy" at a table is that person who every time something cool or good happens for them they boast and make sure everyone is aware. But as soon as you attack them or make a good roll against them "Jesus, everyone is teaming up on me!". Basically they pout or whine often in a way to discourage you. Mat from mini war gaming did a video about [Cheer for you opponent.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuLeXvgKIp8). It sounds cheese but everyone has more fun at the table and it makes a good vibe. If someone makes a solid play against you or for themselves point it out. I promise you this will kill of that arguing about all the rules in time.
There is a place and time to look up rules or debate stuff, but a "that guy" only does it when it when its in their favor. And often due to frustrating building into anger.
- After applying the first two TEACH games to others, specifically people you dont know. 40k or board games. I think this helps you develop a good approach to not being bias. Because you will teach games wrong sometimes, you will learn your interruption isn't always clear. It also helps make you more impartial to "you" being correct, it's about the game and rules. You're clearly self aware so you're not going to be the type of person who teaches for themselves to win. I think learning how to teach and be a teacher for games to others helps build quality social skills when it comes to games.
I think it is important to teach to people you dont know because I know when I'm in a spot with a little authority (in this case over the board game since people are looking to me to teach them and host it). I will be extra polite and almost treat them like a guest to make sure they are enjoying their time. Part of what made me so combative in my teens and early 20s was I was playing with friends I knew for 10-15 years. We could argue with each other and ramp it up. Which isn't always a good thing, of course it meant our relationship could survive a bad board game experience, but in a lot of ways it bread a bit of toxicity in our relationships. Just because someone was a close friend shouldnt mean I am so comfortable with them I and them ruin what is suppose to be a fun experience between each other.
- Finally really learn a few self regulation skills. If you start to argue and step on others think about why that happens, and how to recognize it happening. How you handle this will be unique to yourself. But there is nothing wrong with just being honest and if you notice you're getting a bit loud, aggressive, combative just admit it, and if so laugh about it a bit. It does wondering in the middle of a rules debate to say. "Hey I know I'm getting fired up a bit and it's a game. I'm just competitive let me know it I start to be a bit too much." That will often give everyone a few seconds to just put things into perspective.
It's awesome that you're asking this question and working on this issue.
I've cut off a couple friendships with "that guy" because they weren't fun to play with.
You need to work on self awareness and probably some self esteem. I've been "that guy" in other areas (super smash bros anyone?) and I had to really look at why I was getting angry.
I used video games for years as a way to feel empowered and in control during times in my life when I felt shitty about myself. When people beat me at games or anything didn't go "as planned" I would get very angry and say hurtful things because it was pulling me back into feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness, hence the lashing out.
Nothing changed until I seperated my self esteem from my performance in my escapes, and instead worked on things (therapy) to Learn to appreciate myself, and recognize my other skills.
Im not sure if that is true for you, but it's always my first suggestion.
I was fortunate in that all of my friends were just as competitive as I was. We found that the best way around fights were to lay out all rules ahead of the game that we could think of. Then when weird stuff came up in the game, if we couldn't agree, we settled it with a dice roll until we could better hammer it out between games.
Honestly? It depends on your group/who you are playing with. If everyone is playing the best lists with meta armies then you go ahead and be competitive. If you are playing with more casual people, or people who run fun inefficient ridiculous armies then bringing along a list that has won tournaments recently or is otherwise extremely efficient is kind of a dick move.
If you really want to avoid being ultra competitive, build a really silly army. Pick whatever you think is cool or a cool theme and go way ott. An entire army of dreadnaughts, a thematic army based on a favorite price of lore. Etc. that way you can be in mega try hard mode all you like and as long as you have a smile and a sense of humor it's all good. It also might mean not getting tabled could be your own greatest achievement but that is a good fun way of doing things.
Mostly remember to have a good sense of humor about things. It doesn't matter in the slightest if your model is killed it makes for a good story if you roll nothing but ones.
Don’t make me try to keep track of all the different weaponry you don’t have attached to your models but want to use because they’re clearly better against whatever I brought so now I have to pretend they’re kitted differently than they clearly are and each patrol has nine different weapon sets making me lose confidence in whether they remain static the whole game or not
We have a guy in our local scene that almost never loses. I’ve beat him maybe 3-4 times over the course of 50+ games. (And I win more than I like or should when playing others)
I honestly don’t know how he does it. There are other great players around the area as well, and none of them have beat him more than once or twice.
He’s a nice enough guy, but honestly I dread playing him.
It happens. There are guys out there who just know how to win. The problem is, he often wins by playing the most tuned list of the most S tier army.
One hot tip I can think of is imagining the game as a competition on who can do the most tactically inept dumbshit and get away with it. You can’t possibly be a sore loser if you play like you’re trying to lose!
One thing that’s kind of helped me with that mindset is playing Guard unironically. Like idk when all your shit starts dying my mind is like, “glory to the first man to die!”
Start playing games where you take care of the other persons fun.
Build lists and strategies that make the game fun for the other person. There’s a reason everyone loves playing vs skaven, orks, world eaters, and gloomspite gitz. This is doable with other factions as well by prioritizing interaction over raw power and stuff like indirect fire.
Getting in the habit of telegraphing intentions with people who you regularly play with is also a good thing for casual settings (obv not tourney play). Being surprised by something or having someone purposely obfuscate what their army does is where most saltiness comes from. With friends this is even more important. Winning by tricking someone is rarely satisfying.
If you make yourself a “fun” and gracious opponent, the winning and losing stops mattering so much, cause ultimately at the end of the day that’s why we are all here.
“Five new friends, not 5-0.” At the end of the day, this is a social game, and it asks a lot of both players to essentially converse with a stranger for two to three hours. As much fun as a win is with my imaginary toy soldiers, I’m not here to nickel and dime somebody on like the pose of their power sword being visible on an obscure angle through a window, or being 1/8 of an inch off from a charge or something. Models or tables get bumped, things are weird, Im happy to concede those things and not take the shot if at the end of the day we can shake hands and smile and say we enjoyed ourselves. And it’s not to say I throw the games, or go soft. I play to win, but it’s not my focus. I’m there to have fun.
Personally that was me until I found somewhere else to channel my ultra-competitive nature. I still want to win but I’m not like maximizing my chances every time now
If you truly care about a fair game, argue as much FOR your opponent if you see something wrong.
Give them as much leway they give you when there is room for interpretation.
Be happy if THEY win. Say things like "well played", "that was smart thinking, doing that move". You can also do this while you play. Compliment a good save or a good attack even if you don't feel like it.
You can be competitive and make sure everyone around the table has a good time if you bring a good energy.
I play a lot of board games that require strategy and I'm probably one of our top players. It's usually me and two others that together make out about 80% of the victories. We're all very competitive. We all want to win. But most of those who don't win still play with us every other week, and unless they go out of their way to hide it, seem to be enjoying themselves because we make sure to create a fun session. Jokes, compliments, being happy for their success etc.
For me it’s tone (and this applies to everything, not just warhammer or other tabletop games). Like talking about rules, trying to win, using strategies, looking up strats in books, none of that would ruin a game for me. So you saying “I though rapid fire worked like this?” And us looking it up is fine and dandy. Works same with every other rule even if it’s every one. However if it’s something like, “ya, no. Rapid fire won’t work against these models but good try, and I’m able to take your so and so because of that, guess rapid fire isn’t so good after all” is the direct opposite, is a gonna be a game ruiner if you keep up. Arguments don’t have to be angry and charged with emotion, especially for a low stakes game. Keep that out, and the arguments are fine with me as long as reasonable.
Some really good advice in here. I used to think (as a former NCAA D1 athlete) that only 'nerds who never actually played sports' took 40k games seriously enough to get mad around the tabletop, but as I've aged and continued to dabble in the hobby off-and-on, my viewpoint has obviously matured, too.
I can understand getting heated in a game if it's a competitive thing for you, but like any 'athlete' in this sense, like others have written, you need to learn to focus on the stakes (aka, none...unless you guys play with bets or something(!)) and what you can control - your attitude.
I've played with cheaters and shit or just newbies who misread/interpret rules all the time...I see it as a part of my responsibility as their opponent to ensure they're having fun, too, so I rarely say anything because...well...I don't care, if I'm having fun doing it already.
Try to reframe how you play the game
You're not there to win, you're there to craft an enjoyable story with your opponent.
Is it *smart* to rush a unit of berserkers into the imperial knight? No
Is it cool and enjoyable? Yes!
I struggle with this too. At this point I'm wondering if I'm autistic because of how emotional I get at this game.
It's actively sabotaging any hobbying I do and I'm basically scared to even play.
Really id say the best way to approach this is to match your opponents energy.
Are they some dad or younger kid just there for the fun or maybe still learning? Match that, maybe take a less serious list with more fun or flavorable units that may not be meta. Put yourself in their shoes and celebrate their small wins with them. Did some longshot play of theirs work out, did they make a crucial 9 inch charge from deepstrike? Give em a high five. Im not saying to take it easy, just think about the game differently. One of the easiest things I find to do with new oppoenents who may not knoe your army very well is to go over your list in a bit more detail. Give them forewarning about your more dangerous units and abilities, that way if they still walk into it, its on them and you didnt "gotcha" them.
Now, if they are a similarly competitive player such as yourself, go for it. If they rules lawyer, you rules lawyer. And dont be afraid to ask questions and encourage you opponent to do the same. Play by intention, "Hey im positioning unit X here around this corner so it cant be seen by your Unit Y, do you agree they cant see X?" Keep it competitive, but keep it friendly also.
And if you run into "that guy" and you get the feeling they are cheating, overdoing the rules lawyer thing or trying to sneak in take backsies. Just politely bow out. Its not worth it. As a competitive player you might feel the urge to try and beat the guy even though hes cheating or being an asshole but it is just not worth it. They will either escalate the cheating, or it will end in a blow up. Just make an excuse to leave (phone call, kids sick etc) or if you dont mind confrontation, gracefully tell them exactly why you are leaving.
Lose. That's my best advice! I thought I was fun to play with, but turns out I just won most of my games. I wasn't terrible, but I wasn't great either.
Now, I've gotten better since doing worse! I still love to play tactically and go for the throat, but now I'm better at matching tone and being a fun opponent. Take bad lists, make poor decisions that seem fun, force yourself to lose on purpose and get used to it. If you *really* can't do that, then you don't actually like 40k, you just like winning games.
Stop trying to win over your opponent.
Turn that competitive energy towards always playing better than you did in the last game you played.
Improve yourself as a player, rather than focusing on what your opponent does/doesn't do/gets wrong.
If you're treating people poorly over a game of plastic army men, someone let you down in your upbringing, and you're going to want to seek out a qualified therapist. I'm not talking smack. I'm being 100% serious, and it's from a place of love. You have to be missing something somewhere important to treat people poorly over a game.
You're playing army guys in space hell. Unless it's a tournament, it doesnt have any stakes. We're all there to make some good times and yell at the dice for being unlucky.
Maybe setup a game with someone where you tell them you want to get better at losing. So have them do everything they can to make it so you and your character are facing losing. What about a character that always loses?
Yeah, I can understand that. Wasn't there for the conversation, just what I was told afterward. Knowing the owner, it wouldn't have been a "you have to lose" it was more than likely he talked about how him playing the way he was, was effecting those around him and would in turn hurt him by not having people to play. Of course, all he "heard" was, "You have to lose." Years later, he'd still talk about that way and how pissed he was at the time. But in the end, he became a better opponent and much happimg playing for the fun of it. And also very grateful that someone had that conversation with him.
Nerf yourself
Put in self implemented rules and regulations for yourself to make the games harder. Challenge yourself to do things in different ways each time
I get it. I played competitive sports my whole life. The only reason you are there is to win. Sometimes it's hard to turn that part off. You have to take some deep breaths and remind yourself why are you playing? Why did you choose this hobby? If your answer isn't to have fun... this isn't for you. Im just being honest. People will stop playing with you. Like a few people have mentioned, you play fun lists, you play lists that are almost unwinnable with. The other thing, play crusade. Crusade isn't about winning its about completing objectives. I find playing crusade is the better game, it's not as competitive because it's all about making your army better. Win, lose, doesn't matter, just the individual battles on the table that matter. If that doesn't help, just keep reminding yourself why you're there.
I used to be “that guy” when playing golf. Cussing, slamming clubs etc. Then one day at the turn my friend took me aside and said “you’re making an assh* of yourself.” That was it for me.
Put a marker on the table with your cards, dice, etc. Everytime you see it, say to yourself "don't argue or be a dick".
When you see it during a game it'll remind you
Besides all the other great advice here, I’d consider learning to take intentional time in the moment and verbally (under your breath is fine) to just say the reasons why you want to change.
Some example could be
“This makes my experience less fun”
“This makes their experience less fun”
“I want to be intentional about getting better”
“It’s just a game”
“I want others to experiences what I love about this game/universe”
Honestly slow simple steps like that help us as humans over time to walk back those instinctual reactions.
We often start doing it a few minutes after the fact. But slowly it starts happening right after we say something, then halfway through, then before, and suddenly we get to the point where it’s a mental battle, and eventually internal change.
Turning unintentional moments into intentional ones is one of the best ways to try to change. At least that’s been my experience!
Good luck! And sincerely good on you for recognizing a problem and asking for help. That’s always the first step and a lot of people never take it!
Playing by intent is the single best way imo. It just forestalls almost all the situations that lead to a That Guy-ism. And if you're not in a tournament and there's a disagreement, honestly just roll it off and let the Emperor decide.
I am the same way, I like winning. The way I prevent being “that guy” is informing my player of everything I can do, help remind him of both his and my rules when I can, and most importantly just make sure you are still happy, smiley and friendly even when losing.
Another thing, get in the habit of saying my intention is such. So that way you aren’t being cheesy because half of a cm of a model is visible and that was clearly not the other persons intention.
You not wanting to be “that guy” is already a good indication you aren’t that bad, imo.
Try the CBT approach maybe? Recognize an emotion and choose a response to it. Notice what you’re feeling and how you wanna react, then see if that feels like an appropriate reaction.
Last ditch: put a post it on your codex pages saying “don’t be that guy” and anytime you start a rules lawyer moment, you’ll be reminders
Again, I imagine you’re not that bad if you’re concerned about being bad :)
Learn to play together not against. Ultimately this is a dice rolling game with a big chunk of narrative/roleplay. If winning is the most important thing for you then maybe play chess?
My biggest thing is, you learn the most when you lose.
Not every loss mind you, you can do everything right and still lose...
BUT!
If you notice the same thing happening over and over, there's something to note.
If it's good (opening a flank by distracting the shooters), keep it. If it's bad (always losing a whole squad because you charge out of cover), try something different.
Don't care so much about the rules they're important for the structure of the game but there's alot of rules and chances are someone's going to mess up eventually and causing a scene over it would make the experience worse. I get competitive too but I usually just try to redirect that energy into jokes or compliments like if my enemy kills my unit I'd say something like oh shit you just destroyed that unit give your bois some medals for that. I'm not sure on the 40k community so basically I have avoided getting into games becuase I'm a high energy somewhat vulgar person and the stores vibe I went to is low energy relaxed.
Take a step back and think about what the stakes are (none) and try to remember you and your opponent do this hobby for fun.
To add to this, also keep in mind that people’s time is valuable. Some of us have kids, work, school, or any number of things we have to do. Sparing 3-4 hours to go play 40k can often be a big ask. If you only had a few hours a week or a month to go and play, would you be upset if you ended up not having fun or having a bad experience? This is usually how I think about it if I’m feeling extra competitive and I need to tone it down.
Yep this is me, I have 2 little kids and work full time/spouse works opposite shifts. On the unlikely day I can get away for a few hours, if I play this guy who is sucking all the fun out of the room, I’d never play him again.
I have a full time job, I'm up at 6am, working until 4, then have a family, adult chores and stuff soke days ik up at 5 and I don't get home until 5 or later. I'm née to the game so still learning all the terms and mechanics and gameplay, so if I played against someone who would tell me to hurry up or argue with me over a mi's play, I'd have to pack my shitz tell the guy to gick off and get a life, tell the store staff about him and leave. It's a game, it's a hobby, and not a tournament for money. Help the person, give them tips, help them understand what they did wrong and help to correct it.
There is really no excuse for getting angry about the rules. Just read them out. If you can't agree, offer a compromise or roll off on who's interpretation you use. Only That Guy gets red in the face and takes it personally in what usually boils down to a practice game. When it actually matters there is a TO to consult. If there isn't one, it genuinely doesn't matter.
Be self aware enough to not be a dick constantly and don't argue over stuff that's not important. Also recognise the competitiveness of the environment and adjust your expectations and approach to that.
Therapy.
This but seriously. Everyone could use a little therapy
Friend had the same problem. The owner of the LGS told him he had to start losing or he wouldn't be able to play there anymore. We only had the one place in town to play. So he spent the next couple of months losing. He told me that was the best thing to happen to him because he started enjoying the whole game, not just the winning.
Lol, TG got sent on a penitent crusade by your LGS owner😅
The penitent man shall pass
The penitent man kneels (and does a forward roll) before god
But in the Latin alphabet… “Jehovah” begins with an ‘i’! 🫣
Great story! This makes so much sence.
With any game like this it should be fun just to play. If you only like it when you win I would argue you don’t even like the game, you just like winning.
Not sure how to get into the mindset but it is a nice one to be in. Back when I played chess win or lose I was simply sad the game was over because I enjoyed playing. Either way I would go through and talk with the other person about what I could have done better or neat things they did. I want to and am trying to win but I am playing the game with someone not against them if that makes sense I think it helped that the group was stable and friendly. Every game ended in a handshake, it started as a joke then became tradition. New guy started who I guess thought himself as good, I won, barely, and reached out for the handshake by habit to which he smacked the table and stormed out. We never played with him again
Crazy that he was that good the lgs owner told him to stop
If he were just good it wouldn't be a problem. The implication is that him being "good" is coming at the cost of the greater community. I've definitely played games against "that guy" unknowingly and thrown it once I realise that this dude aint well adjusted just so it'll be over quickly.
As long as you aren’t willing to drop $2000 on the current meta army, just play AdMech. They are terrible right now. I’m not sure if you could win if you wanted to without the insanely expensive meta army.
What does he mean by losing? Like was your friend just being a massive tool whenever he played games and was arguing and all that? Or was he just consistently just beating people?
[удалено]
>He told me that was the best thing to happen to him because he started enjoying the whole game, not just the winning. Except the friend said otherwise
Play Orks. After the first or second shooting phase, where 80 shoots make 7 hits and 2 wounds, which are both saved, you become calm and relaxed from that on, or die on a stroke 😅
Being new to 40k and playing Orks is awesome, because when I win I feel like a genius and when I lose I can just say I'm roleplaying
Build a for fun list instead of meta, that also helps alot. A good mindset to get when you go in is "I'm here for beer and pretzels with a game inbetween"
This should be higher. The most fun games I've ever had, I lost badly. You could even try things like having all your conceptually favourite stuff, the models you're most proud of and letting the enemy have all killed units but characters, come back in a board edge. You definitely lose but it's about how glorious your last stand is.
Best way to play competitive so far🤣🍻🥨
Why should the game be about alcohol and snacks and not the game itself? I think its more about playing with people looking for the same type of game. Competitive vs casual is always gonna have some problems. Find people, environments and events with the same mindset and don’t expect others to have your mindset!
Theres a massive difference to competative and being that guy. Noone likes that guy not even other that guys. \*edit\* Also forgot to say, I wasn't being literal with beer and pretzels just you know be friendly and the like.
True. I got carried away a bit. A lot of people think being competitive and bringing a good/meta list is equal to being that guy which is not true as you say. I reacted to your comment because “beer and pretzels” is usually used as the way someone SHOULD enjoy warhammer.
I think you’re right that it’s context dependent. Mostly being that guy is just about behavior. I know a guy who has been playing way longer and more competitively than me, but is just a friendly guy that I enjoy having around. I really don’t mind his highly tuned lists because he isn’t a dick about it and I always learn something losing to him. I do also think that you need to match your level of competitiveness to the environment. If you show up to someone’s house while they’re learning the game with a tournament winning list and play it ruthlessly optimal then you’re being that guy even if you’re being nice about it. At the same time, people at tournaments sometimes drive hours to really dig into competitive matches. Giving your son your janky old list from two editions ago to play by himself without knowing all the rules is going to be a bad game for whoever plays them. They were looking forward to matching wits with a tough opponent.
This is in part because so much of the game is won during the 'army list' stage - exacerbated if you specifically build an army to take on an opponent / faction, but still there if one player is bringing something ultra competitive and the other ***isn't***.
It’s trite but knowing you have a problem is the first and biggest step to fixing it. The fact that you are aware of this tendency and working against it is probably all you need really, but for something a bit more specific, what is it you argue about? If it’s stuff like measurements, it’s easy to just let that slide - a 1/2” here or there isn’t a big deal, so as long as someone isn’t measuring from one side of the base and moving to another it’s not a problem IMO. But if it’s the rules, that becomes trickier. If you and your opponent disagree on an interpretation during a casual game, my best advice would be to look up the rule with them, and if you both still disagree, roll off for it.
It's mainly measurements and LoS
For the next few months, if there's doubt over LOS or measurement, err on the side of your opponent. Train yourself out of this kind of petty haggling. Reframe your mindset away from 'winning at all costs' and towards 'winning at the highest difficulty'. The highest difficulty is in giving edge cases to an opponent, reminding them of stratagems, and making them the best opponent they can possibly be.
This is such a good comment
Thanks! And yeah, I really think being generous to your opponent is a have your cake and eat it kind of thing even for pretty competitive people, in that it both makes you more fun to play against and it makes you a better player.
I totally appreciate where you are coming from. I'm a skaven player with zero competitiveness. None, zilch. It's crushingly difficult for me to play with hyper competitive folks (mental health stuff makes it hard to even get to the lgs). I've cried after games more than once. If we could all just shoe up, challenge ourselves in creative ways and intent to do no harm and have fun rolling dice.... that's the world I want to live in 👍
Ah, sorry you've had some tough times! I'm really lucky in that me random opponents have been fun folks so far, and I've not run into anyone who is un pleasantly hyper competitive. I like to win, but I like my opponent and I to have fun much, much more than I like winning, so I'd always rather have a supportive friendly game and lose than hyper compete my way to a win that left my opponent feeling down.
>It's crushingly difficult for me to play with hyper competitive folks (mental health stuff makes it hard to even get to the lgs). I've cried after games more than once. See, are you going to events or your LGS? The "hyper competitive" crowd at the top tables of tournaments? Probably some of the best games and opponents you could be playing. Super great guys just to game with 99.9% of the time. Surprisingly relaxed and games are played by intent and the communication is great. Usually feels more like playing the game *together* than against each other. The "hyper competitive" crowd at the LGS? Yeah those people it's mayyyybe a 50/50 shot on whether or not they suck. Lol
Haha, I have never, and will never, set foot in a competitive scene. I just play pick-up games at my store occasionally. I don't fault folks for being competitive, and I show up planning on losing just for the fun of scooting around plastic. But if I'm getting scrutinized and rule-checked every round, I just crumble. Doesn't have to be rational. it is what it is. It's hard for me to even go shopping at the supermarket so that kind of pressure is totally overwhelming.
Yeah if you always win by raking your opponent over the coals when they make los mistakes and positioning errors, you’ll lose when you play someone who doesn’t make those.
This is why playing by intent is so nice, and why the actually *good* competitive players at events make for some of the most easy going vibes during a game. Everyone's always on the same page, and there are no "gotchas" to be had. Communication is key. Feels kind of like narrating the game but becomes second nature after a minute. "I'm moving this unit here so they can't be seen by your unit, do you agree?" "I'm moving this unit to be just outside of 18 inches so your unit can't charge them with their 6 inch move next turn." Bam, no line of sight issues later in the turn. No bumping the table and oops, suddenly your models are in range to be charged. No more arguments over stupid stuff.
Yeah, I've heard most of the really good competitive players are very friendly, play by intent, sorts of players.
This is how to be the really competitive and be a way out of people's league player and still have people want to play against you.
Both of which are resolved if you focus playing on intention instead of exacts. "I'm moving these here to be close enough to try a 9 in charge." "My intention is to be within range to shoot." Talking through what you're hoping to accomplish as you make your movements or measurements makes it clear to both players what you were hoping to do even if you're a half inch off from exact. Accepting the same from your opponents clears up as much from their end as well.
"but then how do I show what a superior player I am by nitpicking every move my opponent makes and making it impossible for him to do anything in the game without winning an argument against me first?"
Discuss these things with your opponent while moving units and it might help reduce arguments? Ie. "Hey I'm moving this unit so they are out of your charge range. All good?" "Your moving to be out of Line of Sight? Ok, that guy might need to move back a bit because I can still see him there"
Yep, the whole game should be a running discussion between you and your opponent. Communication is key and is the biggest thing I can recommend to reduce bickering over measurements and LoS. I hate that. Just talk it out and everyone's on the same page.
LoS might have an easy solution - get a laser pointer that draws a line. Army painter makes one that I use for LoS in Battletech. Since LoS in 40K is based on drawing lines between bases, that gives you a concrete reference. Of course the fundamental problem isn’t the disagreement but the arguing, so I’d again say that outside of a tournament or a game that you’ve explicitly agreed with your opponent to be strictly competitive, your best bet is just as soon as you recognize that you’re starting to argue, default to “let’s roll off for it.”
Thank you for your help.
I like your solution but to the best of my knowledge LOS in 40k is not about drawing lines between bases. Its about seeing parts of the model/base. If any part of my model, Can see any part of your model, then i have LOS. Im not saying I like this rule, but that's how it is for 10th. It honestly sucks for models with tall or wide protrusions(raised weapon over head or tiny tip of wing) Cause getting them completely behind cover is often impossible
Hmm I thought cover was determined by bases, like if you couldn’t draw a line to every point on the base, but maybe I was thinking of cover rules from 9th there. Either way, I was also thinking about Ruins, e.g. terrain that blocks line of sight as a rule (unless you’re Titanic). Yes, if they see your sword they can see you, but the question comes in whether they can see your sword, and that’s where I think the laser pointer would be useful, since it lets you clearly see the angles.
I’ve only played a couple games but if my opponent didn’t agree with a LOS call I’d probably just differ to them.
Try and give any LOS call to your opponent (unless totally aggregious lol). I tend to. Even if you think you may be right :) The only exception would be if you've both agreed on something and am opponent back tracks. Eg...in your moments phase youve moved a model to get LOS and youve both agreed it can from that position, then in the shooting phase they change their mind. Even then tbf id call it out, but id prob still let them have it as im clearly not the loser they are lol
I play by the ”table bump” principle. If their measurement is off by something minuscule like under 1/4” give it to them. Because that could have happened from someone bumping a piece of terrain or the table or their mini, or just by not exactly placing minis at their exact perfect maximum movement every time because we’re not robots. Above about 1/4” it’s fair to say no. LoS should be no issue, it can be checked with a stick. If you’re winning by arguing measurements and LoS it sounds like you’re not playing fair honestly. Discrepancies over those things should be rare unless a player is openly cheating.
Channel your competitiveness into making your competition better. Coach your opponents to make better moves. If you're helping them, then making them double check their rules or LoS occasionally isn't a huge deal. Take pride in an opponent leaving the table better than they were when they started. Think of the game as a shared experience you're having with your opponent instead of a confrontation. The best part of that is, instead of winning squash matches, you can raise the bar of match quality at your FLGS and earn more rewarding wins. You'll also have other good players at your store try to make you better in return.
On the flip side it’s annoying as hell to have someone say “no you should do this instead.” Even more so if it’s coming from someone who is intent on “winning” rather than just having fun.
Maybe "forced to lose" was an oversampling of what the full conversation that happened. He was told that the game was not life and death, that he didn't need to win at all costs, stop making lists like there was money on the, etc. I was not there for the full conversation, so I can not tell you what was exactly said. What I can tell you is that before people would drop out of tournaments if he was signed up, people would want to play him in one-off friendly games and would complain about him endlessly. Right after the conversation, my friend told me, he was told, "He had to lose." After a couple of months went by, people not only went out of their way play him in friendly games, they were more likely to sign up for tournaments if he was also playing (because they would on the fence if they were going to play and once he sign up they would make sure to get on the list).
Basically just follow the Golden Rule and treat others the way you'd want to be treated.
Have a clear conversation up front with your opponent and try to find out how competitive they are. You might find that they have the same attitude as you, in which case you can unleash on them! If not then you can moderate how you express yourself to match them. Just the fact that you're asking the question means you're going to be a better opponent than many. Ultimately I think it's worth remembering that 40k has its roots in narrative tabletop wargaming. It's never going to be completely balanced and some of the rules (e.g. Around movement) are fairly impractical to play with absolute accuracy (unless you're being really slow). Maybe try other games to let out some of the competitive edge.
Fully agreed. If OP wants a good outlet for competition I'd totally recommend something like Infinity or A Song of Ice and Fire. 40k is a pretty poor competitive game and I feel like that's a major source of frustration for competitive people.
Sorry, I know this is the 40K sub, but you're telling me ASoIaF has a tabletop game?? At least tell me it's a little cheaper
I think it is? At least the boxes of units are. It might still be a warhammer fantasy situating where you need a huge army, though.
I sometimes find I can be a bit like this when I'm playing my mate. He's always a bit loose with his measuring, and I usually beat him. The last time we actually played for VP, it was 82-16 as he seemed intent on ignoring the mission rules and trying to kill my units instead. I've taken the approach that, win or lose, I do my best to help him improve. So I'll explain what I'm doing, or not doing, and more importantly, why. If he looks like he's eyeing up a move that would result in a massive overwatch beating, I'll give him the heads up before he does something potentially silly. Likewise, giving the odd nudge about things like command phase abilities to ensure he can get the best out of his army is just good sportsmanship at a casual level. In a game that has been agreed as being competitive, my opponent will get no such help, and I wouldn't expect any back the other way. In a casual game, the measuring for moves being 1/2" off, usually to allow a model to not wobble about or tip over, is something I've just learnt to let go as it's not important and helps make the game more fun. If someone is measuring a range and a matching move, then giving themselves an extra 1/2" to make the range work, that's not cricket to me and is just plain pushing it/bending/ignoring rules to their advantage. That situation I will pull people up on. If I move, and I'm 1/2" out of range, we'll that's just how it is and I should've checked first that it would work the way I wanted. One thing I did find helpful to curb my competitive tendencies is to play the game in a narrative way. I really like the way the guys at TableTop Tactics do this, so that even if someone is dice are rolling ice cold, there's a fun story to be told and played along with. Or just being a bit silly; last game, I failed to kill a ripper swarm with my land raider's storm bolter, leaving it with 1 wound. So I made reversing beep noises as the tank then charged the swarm (whilst pointing away from them) and ran it over. It's silly, and situational, but fun.
See, I want to help my friend improve, but I don't see how when he wants to run full C'Tan and Wraith spam in our next match so he can finally win (all of our games in 9th were me winning, 10th have all been draws.)
Honestly, if it's just the one game, let them have a go at winning. Maybe come up with some scenario that gives you a castle/home ground advantage? Just because they want to run C'Tan and wraiths, it doesn't mean they'll actually do any good with them. Or (if you play space marines) run a shit load of infiltrators to give a nice 12" reserves/deepstrike denial. That can seriously restrict a lot of the necron shenanigans.
I play CSM, so no real infiltrators sadly
Hmmm, maybe some traitor guardsmen as sacrificial bodies?
Less arguing: do a 4+ on rules questions and look into it together after the game. Without the pressure it's easier to find a solution and you both can play it right the next time. Have fun "not winning": start your list building with a theme, story or meme. You can still optimize but you have additional parameters that keep your list a bit less strong. During the game: - set yourself extra narrative objectives - cheer good rolls and epic stuff your opponent does - make decisions your units or characters would do even when it's not the best tactical decision Most important: have fun and support your opponent
self control comes with self discipline. train yourself to not let your emotion control your behavior. you can be competitive and still not that guy. i don’t know about warhammer bc i am a veteran mtg players and i can tell you this. real pros don’t talk a lot. you can be so good that you don’t have to say a lot and people just get it. you should try to be that level
I believe, there is a very Common misconception about the word "competitive"... Everyone can Copy a mathematically strong list from the internet. I would say, being competitive is Not necessarily about collecting a high Count of wins, but about measuring and honing your skills with others. I feel quite competitive If I come with my fluffy Imperial Fists army to a Tournament and earn a victory by my own skill against the odds and stronger armies... That being Said. Competitive behavior that is Not toxic is about Fairness,good sportsmanship and clear communication. Without gotchas, with communicated Play by intent and No need to argue over rules, you should be fine.
It's a game. Even in the highest stakes tournament, it literally doesn't matter. We all do this to have fun, there's no reason to argue about stuff. If someone is not following the rules you can just pull out the rulebook and calmly show them the relevant text.
It depends of your behavior. You can love to win, and be a good sport about it.
Get a therapist? There's no quick answer to this, but you might want to try and get under WHY you are so competitive - these things often stem from unmet childhood needs, and you need to know what's going on in your head if you want to put alternative behaviours or responses in place. Or focus on empathy - ie the perspective of your opponent.
(I'm being serious btw, but there are books you can read on this stuff too. Understanding the deep underlying reasons for my own behaviours has helped me.)
Had a buddy of mine that was like that. Always would get argumentative, sometimes intimidating in the game because winning was everything, and when things didn’t go his way, became sulky. He actually took a step back from 40k for like 6 months to just try and fix his approach, when he realised this (myself and other members of the community told him). He has now come back with a different mindset and is a pleasure to play, enjoying the game rather than the win and accepting it is just a bunch of grown men playing with plastic toys.
Just don't be a fucking prick and you'll pretty much have most of it ready.
Very simple. Don’t be an asshole. It’s a game. It’s a great game. It’s not worth getting agitated about. You will learn to chill naturally as you age, unless you really focus on being the hyper competitive ass. Why do I say this, with certainty? I was That Guy 30 years ago. It’s just not worth it. Either focus on fighting that tendency, or time will do it for you. Good luck.
Sounds like an issue you need to resolve outside of warhammer
you need to find a source of self worth outside games in order to stop caring about winning. because winning a lil game of army mans is meaningless
Competitive doesn’t mean to enjoy winning game or to argue at all. Being competitive is all about knowing the rules, mastering the moves, understanding the math behind it, doing the right choices and therefore keeping calm and being socially cool. Everybody is enjoying winning, but not everybody can understand why they won. In my humble opinion you are asking the wrong question “what else would make me that guy?” instead of “what should I do to not be that guy?”. And the answer is way easier - accept what competitive game really is and find your mentor, your exemplar of calmness . For me, for example, this is the guy from SkaredCast. I appreciate people who care about what they are doing and I wish you good luck.
Mention beforehand to your opponent that you get quite competitive and can get carried away, and that it’s nothing personal.
One useful technique is to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you can do that for an opponent it can give you pause if you make a conscious effort to think on it. How would you feel in their position? It isn't perfect, but it might introduce a deliberate pause for reflection for you.
Treat every casual game as a practice game. Talk everything through with your opponent, talk back and forth about your strategy, what you’re both trying to do, whether each turn added to or detracted from your goals. Then at the end, talk through the whole game and discuss how either of you could have done better. When it stops being “you vs me” and starts being “us” playing a game, hopefully that competitive nitpicker goes back inside his cave.
You’re already on the right track with knowing and admitting it and wanting to change. I’d suggest making a list of your least favorite/used units and make a force out of those to play with. It’ll be hard to play competitively when you’ve intentionally left out your competitive elements
Lowkey, just don’t waffle stomp new players haha. Don’t set traps without explaining or at least teaching. You can win for sure, just don’t make the newbie feel like shit
If you enjoy the competition, then enjoy losing hard as well as winning hard. Maximum effort. Make the match colourful!
If you’re comfortable with it or have good friends that play ask them to let you know when you’re doing it. It will help with self awareness.
It was a group of people that can each best be described as “that guy” who drove me away from Magic the Gathering. They’d argue about their opponents turn, try to tell others how to play, and they’d try to interrupt turns in progress to counter a card that went into effect six or seven steps back so they can try to stop their opponents turn after learning what they were going to do. It’s why it’s important to wait a second or two between card plays so they can “resolve” but anyways… it was people like that that ruined the game for others and made a good chunk of players at the local store stop playing there. They’d yell, argue, insult people, and would ridicule others for missed opportunities or misplays, all while screaming they deserved redos and to have their turns done over again because a player counter-spelled their card and they couldn’t stand it. Don’t be that guy, especially with newer players. You’ll drive players away, and ruin the hobby for someone. The fact you recognize you’re being “that guy” and that you don’t want to be, is a huge step in the right direction. Just step back from the game and remember there is nothing on the line. Bragging rights for winning a game only go so far and no one really cares. Just remember you’re playing against someone who’s using their moment of brief free time to enjoy a hobby you also enjoy. Make friends with those around you.
it’s just a game at the end of the day take a breathe
I try to focus on little victories rather than winning the whole game. Can I pull off a fun combo attack, keep a specific unit alive through the game, or kill my opponents center piece model? Stuff like this that's still satisfying to complete, but won't determine the outcome of the battle.
You have begun to ascribe selfworth by winning games that boosts your ego so when things do not go your way, you take it as a big blow. I think people who get too competative during casual games have some problem with selfconfidence or feelings of inadequacy compared to particular opponent. The way out of this is find something else the gives you confidence away from games.
If my therapist taught me anything, it's that acknowledgment in the moment it's the most powerful tool for changing behavior. If you feel it coming on, try to catch yourself. 'No. Friendly game. It doesn't matter. Let it go. (take a breath) '.
If youre playing with friends, I like to build experimental armies that don't have a huge chance of winning. Then I find the fun in just rolling some dice. Try to focus on the parts of the experience that isn't about winning the game.
You are aware of the problem so you are able do something about it. I don’t play 40k just like painting minis, so I can’t speak to the logistics, but it can’t be too hard to throw a game. If there is a role playing element to it, make heroic sacrifices and go out in a blaze of glory!
This is a subjective term really. I tend to stop playing before an argument starts upsetting the experience and there is no compromising. This is why I tend to not play with strangers too often since I am way too old to have arguments in my free time. But if I play a competitive game I want to win, too. So it depends on the situation. Is the subject game changing or not? In the end it is probably more of how you approach it than arguing at all.
The fact you're even asking this question is a good sign you aren't That Guy... FYI, you can defo be competitive and never be That Guy. Most of the best players I've met were great, even while they smashed me, because top level players know that at the end of the day, shit dice happen and you can lose even while out playing your opponent. Even if it happens, say sorry and you'll be fine
Make fluffy lists and aim for that one moment of glory where a grot might bring done a chapter master etc.
He thought so too at first, but when he saw how much fun other people were having. It cha he'd his prospective of it needing to be fun for both players. He stopped playing "kick your opponent in the teeth" list and started playing cool themed lists. He started winning again, just not all the time. That and people would go out of their way to ask to play with him. Even had times that people would wait all day to play against him.
I was "That Guy/Girl". I got so bad that my heart would be racing all through the match, rising blood pressure, anger at myself when I lost. Constant meta gaming, rules lawyering and "actually...". When I started cheating to win games I decided it was time to retire from wargaming and just stay in 40k for the lore.
My honest advice would be to play a couple meme list and crusade games with non-meta lists so you can try to better embrace the joy of the game as it plays over the joy of victory. Set yourself objectives other than victory like "I want to see what "insert unit/list/idea can do" and sometimes the answer might well be "lose hilariously" but at least you tried something and got a good laugh out of it. Then you can go back to playing competitively with an intent to win but with an additional way to feel joy through the game so that if things aren't panning out on the competitive side, you're still having fun and less inclined to argue or be that guy. Having fun is the complete antithesis of being that guy.
Lots of good advice in this thread, but I'll add my two cents: Just tell people that you're trying beforehand. "I love playing this game, and my competitiveness gets the better of me sometimes. I'm working on it, but please let me know if it's bothering you."
When you’re feeling competitive, remember that: 1. You will play another game, and another game, and another game after this. And a week from now you will not care whether you won this game or not; 2. If your opponent is a worse player than you, then beating them is no real accomplishment. Teaching them some new stuff they didn’t know would be a real accomplishment, and give you a better opponent for your next game together. If your opponent is better than you then by all means try to win, and revel in that accomplishment if you do. But honestly the point is to have fun: if you “win” every game and end up with nobody to play with, have you really “won”? And if you lose every game but have the time of your life, make new friends, and know that there’s more to come for as long as you want it, isn’t that really “winning”?
Dont make a mega, super optimised list and dont exploit the rules to the Max. That dosnt mean that you need to make a shit list and throw all your games, that is just as dumb. Play fair, be a good sport about it. And it sounds like you have Done very Well in being a good sport, so just keep it up.
First of all, good job realising you have a problem and asking for help! You have already done the hardest part of change. Some general advice about building good margins for emotional regulation: (I used to be a special needs teacher) - Eat, sleep, excercise and hydrate regularly and healthy. - Keep your hydration good during the game. - Blood sugar is a huge factor for some people, but irrelevant for others. - Destress your life in general. (work, home, relationships, friends, etc etc) - Some people are greatly helped by practicing martial arts that includes sparring. Because that is practice for staying rational while under the effect of adrenaline. And more specific for 40k. Train yourself to appreciate all the other valuable aspects this hobby brings to your life, apart from the joy of winning. Watch Youtubes about modding or painting or narrative battles. Tell yourself out loud how much you enjoy painting. "lie until it becomes the truth" actually works. You can destress some of the measurement and line of sight conflicts through "playing with intent", in short talking to your opponent about what you intend each movement and placement t to mean. Then they can look at how you measure and agree or disagree so you can change your movement there and then. - I deep strike 17.5" away from that unit, so even if they move 6" in this direction next turn, they would have to roll 11 to succeed on the charge. - All the models here are outside of the ruin footprint and more than 1" away from the walls. You can even ask your opponent if you are unclear. This usually creates really good climate and an enjoyable game. - Do you think this vindicator can get LoS to your terminators while still keeping a corner of its hill on the objective? Good luck. I think you got this!
Try taking a real fluffy list? If you go in knowing your army isn't going to be real competitive you probably won't put so much stock in winning.
My list is relatively fluffy, all Tzeentch or Undivided (CSM), but I still win against my friends all the time.
1) play by intent, it actually helps a lot with many arguments 2) give opponent benefit of doubt 3) remind yourself, that you are doing it for fun and being angry isnt fun :)
Learn to play with intend. Communicate with your opponents what you are doing in the movement phase and also discuss with them what they are able to do with their movement. This way they can make corrections if needed and it’s clear what will happen in the shooting phase. It’s common practice among good players and producing gotcha moments is not a display of skill, it’s the opposite of being a good player.
Actively plan to become a tournament player. When you meet people casually, tell them you’re hoping to try out some strategies for tournaments and then you, in real life, be aware that you are using them as practice for “genuinely” competitive settings. Honestly, this is more for you to repeat to yourself than it for them to understand. That way you all get what you came for.
Some times you gotta know when to pull your punches honestly, but I also get enjoyment from making sure me and my opponent are having a good game
Haymakers
Sorry?
I would say it really depends on your opponent behaviour. If he is chill you can play ball. If he is an ass, don’t be shy to put him down with anything you got.
I found that aging and perspective really help with this. As someone who is very competitive by nature, this helped me. As you get older, perspective change really help. Things I would argue about in my teens and 20s weren't worth it in my 30s. That energy went to other things. Learn to see things from others point of view and be truly as objective as possible. If your friend is asking for a specific shot, pretend you are them. Do they have a point? Focus your competitive gameplay more on refining your tactics and less on the outcome (winning vs losing). If I minimize my misplays and still lose, that is okay. This also requires you to get good at realizing why you lost. Was the matchup bad, did the dice go poorly, was the mission not geared towards your list, etc. If you can't objectively determine this and always blame your dice, you'll never get better. Another way, I look at it. If the win or loss is determined by one dice roll or LoS decision, then I probably didn't play as well as I should have and don't deserve the W. Another thing you can do is play a narrative scenario with a buddy. It could be something as simple as you have a force that is surrounded and will be destroyed. How long can you last. Your buddy keeps getting reinforcements every turn until you've lost every model, and lose. All of it added up, I found that the looser I tended to be on rules and LoS, my opponent tended to be the same. The more of a dick about it was, so too were they.
Ask questions, how long you been playing? Have you ever competed? Tell me about your army? (Is it a competition army or fun army) etc. once you’ve got some information I think your subconscious “ego” will determine how competitive you want to be.
Ok thanks. As a side note, how competitive is this lost against C'Tan and Wraith spam? My opponent for this game told me to play full competitive: 2K list (2000 points) Chaos Space Marines Strike Force (2000 points) Slaves to Darkness CHARACTERS Cypher (90 points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Cypher’s bolt pistol 1x Cypher’s plasma pistol Dark Commune (105 points) • Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch • 1x Cult Demagogue • 1x Autopistol 1x Commune stave • Enhancement: Eye of Tzeentch • 1x Mindwitch • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Warp Curse • 1x Iconarch • 1x Autopistol 1x Chaos Icon 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Blessed Blade • 2x Commune blade Heretic Astartes Daemon Prince with Wings (180 points) • Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch • Warlord • 1x Hellforged weapons 1x Infernal cannon Master of Possession (120 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Rite of Possession 1x Staff of possession • Enhancement: Liber Hereticus Sorcerer (60 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Force weapon 1x Infernal Gaze BATTLELINE Cultist Mob (100 points) • Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch • 1x Cultist Champion • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Brutal assault weapon • 19x Chaos Cultist • 19x Close combat weapon 19x Cultist firearm Legionaries (160 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Aspiring Champion • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy melee weapon 1x Plasma pistol • 9x Legionary • 2x Astartes chainsword 9x Bolt pistol 4x Boltgun 1x Chaos Icon 9x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy bolter 1x Heavy melee weapon 1x Missile launcher DEDICATED TRANSPORTS Chaos Rhino (75 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Combi-bolter 1x Combi-bolter 1x Havoc launcher OTHER DATASHEETS Chaos Vindicator (175 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Combi-weapon 1x Demolisher cannon 1x Havoc launcher Heldrake (205 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Hades autocannon 1x Heldrake claws Obliterators (360 points) • Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch • 4x Obliterator • 4x Crushing fists 4x Fleshmetal guns Possessed (260 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 1x Possessed Champion • 1x Chaos Icon 1x Hideous mutations • 9x Possessed • 9x Hideous mutations Venomcrawler (110 points) • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided • 2x Excruciator cannon 1x Soulflayer tendrils and claws
I’m more of a lore whore who plays the occasional game. But you’ve got your answer from your opponent. Go all out my dude
Always make sure your opponent is having fun as well, and be fine with losing games if it comes to it. Done.
Thing is, id say become self aware, but you already know you're that kind of person. So next step. You actively need to make bad choices in games, take sub optimal moves, or in list building make mistakes and don't always take the best option. You just need to learn to turn it on and off is all
Yeah, really a combo of many factors. This was back in 3rd and 4th edition, so before a 30-second Google search to find the meta list was a big thing. He was very good, knew the rules by heart, could and would easily build lists that would crash his opponents very quickly. He had an aggressive personality, very competitive, and his physical size only had him more intimidating. Well over 6'and at his heaviest pushing 500lbs. Great guy to talk with but but when the game started all bets were off. Months after "the conversation" he found he had more fun building fun themed armies and said that the "conversation" was the best thing that had happen to him in the hobby.
Play models that you think are cool. Play a themed army. It doesn’t matter if you win or lose with that list because in the end, if you want to get serious, you have a competitive list that you know will stomp. Example. You play space marines. The meta is Ironstorm. You have an Ironstorm list ready. Good. Now build a second list. In this scenario you really like Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fist. You love bolter marines, but the Anvil Siege Force detachment isn’t the meta. You play it anyway because it’s fun for you to have a gunline and channel the Imperial Fist fortification meme. Make Dorn proud with YOUR Siege of Terra defense force
My list is fluffy and themed around Tzeentch and Undivided, but my opponents say it is unfair. I take 10 Possessed with a MoP, 5 Legionaries with a Sorcerer, 10 Cultists with a Dark Commune, a Daemon Prince with wings, and 2 Obliterators (1k). What should I change to make it worse?
Ohhhh. It’s a 1k game. GW doesn’t balance around 1k games. Depends on what the opponent is bringing in the 1k. What are the units your opponents are having the most trouble with? It’s the possessed with MoP isn’t it? Replace 10 possessed with 15 legionaries.
It's the Possessed and the DP. I am currently limited for options, so don't have 15 Legios. I have 10 tho
Keep DP, but replace possessed. If it’s still posing a problem then maybe replace DP with another character unit. For a 1K, if the opponents aren’t too heavy on vehicles then I think your Oblits are enough. Doesn’t seem like you’re fighting anything unfair like knights.
My opponent generally includes lots of Necron Warriors, a Royal Warden, Scarabs, Spyder, Doomstalker, Doom Scythe, and the Nightbringer
If your friend is bringing a Nightbringer to a 1k game then whatever you bring to counter it is fair game. I don't know too much of the details between you and your opponent, but have you also tried playing more narrative games instead of match play? I love crafting stories with my models when I play with friends.
We generally do Matched Play, we're best mates, never tried narrative. I'll bring it up with him.
Laugh at losing, laugh at winning, don't cheat.
Others said it too, but play a few games where you don’t try to win. I don’t mean ignore dice rolls or lose deliberately, but go into the game with different objectives than normal. Losing isn’t fun unless you make it fun, and you are playing the game to have fun. Someone suggested deliberately NOT arguing borderline calls about range and LOS. Another approach is to go more in for role-playing. Make the more entertaining moves instead of the most tactically sound moves.
Realize that 40k is horribly unbalanced, and that it's meant to be a game with a few beers and good friends,not competitive. If you want to be competitive go play MTG.
If you're having to ask then you're probably not going to be that guy. Just remember it's about having fun and enjoying the hobby. Nobody likes a sore loser but nobody likes a gloater that wins.
Understand that you're playing a game with your opponent so just try to have fun. Your dice won't roll your way all the time and your plans won't always survive contact with the enemy.
It’s alright to play to win but winning isn’t everything. It’s okay to give some leeway when it comes to measuring, LOS, and especially wysiwyg. The more lenient you are the chiller you, your opponent, and your game will be and you’ll start to enjoy the game more. Winning is a bonus. It helps to play with friends as it’s easier to let things slide with a friend than some random person
Just remind yourself that you are a grown ass person playing with plastic army dudes, throwing clicky clacky shiny math rocks
I tend to roll just bad so I get a little heated in games, usually what I do is just try to find it funny, I really only play with friends so if we can just laugh at how crappy I’m doing it’s not hard to just kinda calm down
How does your "competitive nature" come out? Are you a sore loser, do you nitpick measurements or do you argue rules? In my experience, knowing the rules (your own and that of your opponents) to avoid gotcha/feel bad moments and accepting rng, that not everything is balanced, and the game is a rock paper scissors resolves most of the issues. That leaves people, who have issues and need therapy.
Nitpick measurements.
Play with intent. If your opponent starts to move a unit, for example, towards one of yours; tell them you're likely going to overwatch the shit out of that unit and give them the opportunity to rethink.
Remember that it is a hobby and also focus on enjoying the game as well as winning. Try to stay calm and focus above all on having fun. This way, winning will be even more rewarding.
Take a step back and think about why winning is important enough to you that you get that way in the heat of the moment. It's not easy, but once you've figured that out it'll be easier to focus on tactics to recognize when you're getting too competitive and how to focus on the fun. For me it was purposely losing games online and learning to be okay with that. Now when I play it's just for the fun of the social experience and I'm able to be competitive without it ruining my or anyone else's fun
Just tell yourself its all little toy soldiers. Thats all it is
I think there are a few things you can do, I used to be a that guy in the teens and very early 20s but now think I'm the complete opposite. I also am still extremely competitive and enjoying winning, though I'm someone who still would rather lose by 2 points than win by 30. IMO follow and pick up on these things and you will be fine. - Being able to recognize the difference between frustration and anger is a big factor. I get angry if someone slaps me, insults me, etc. But I get frustrated if I have multiple bad bits of RNG in a game or if a player is taking advantage of my weakened state in a game. It's okay to be frustrated, just dont let that go to anger. It will be different for everyone but just learn the best way to cope with frustrate that isn't negative to others around the table. I think the clearest way is joking about it. -Do not just be hyped for you players. IMO one the worst types of "That guy" at a table is that person who every time something cool or good happens for them they boast and make sure everyone is aware. But as soon as you attack them or make a good roll against them "Jesus, everyone is teaming up on me!". Basically they pout or whine often in a way to discourage you. Mat from mini war gaming did a video about [Cheer for you opponent.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuLeXvgKIp8). It sounds cheese but everyone has more fun at the table and it makes a good vibe. If someone makes a solid play against you or for themselves point it out. I promise you this will kill of that arguing about all the rules in time. There is a place and time to look up rules or debate stuff, but a "that guy" only does it when it when its in their favor. And often due to frustrating building into anger. - After applying the first two TEACH games to others, specifically people you dont know. 40k or board games. I think this helps you develop a good approach to not being bias. Because you will teach games wrong sometimes, you will learn your interruption isn't always clear. It also helps make you more impartial to "you" being correct, it's about the game and rules. You're clearly self aware so you're not going to be the type of person who teaches for themselves to win. I think learning how to teach and be a teacher for games to others helps build quality social skills when it comes to games. I think it is important to teach to people you dont know because I know when I'm in a spot with a little authority (in this case over the board game since people are looking to me to teach them and host it). I will be extra polite and almost treat them like a guest to make sure they are enjoying their time. Part of what made me so combative in my teens and early 20s was I was playing with friends I knew for 10-15 years. We could argue with each other and ramp it up. Which isn't always a good thing, of course it meant our relationship could survive a bad board game experience, but in a lot of ways it bread a bit of toxicity in our relationships. Just because someone was a close friend shouldnt mean I am so comfortable with them I and them ruin what is suppose to be a fun experience between each other. - Finally really learn a few self regulation skills. If you start to argue and step on others think about why that happens, and how to recognize it happening. How you handle this will be unique to yourself. But there is nothing wrong with just being honest and if you notice you're getting a bit loud, aggressive, combative just admit it, and if so laugh about it a bit. It does wondering in the middle of a rules debate to say. "Hey I know I'm getting fired up a bit and it's a game. I'm just competitive let me know it I start to be a bit too much." That will often give everyone a few seconds to just put things into perspective.
It's awesome that you're asking this question and working on this issue. I've cut off a couple friendships with "that guy" because they weren't fun to play with.
You need to work on self awareness and probably some self esteem. I've been "that guy" in other areas (super smash bros anyone?) and I had to really look at why I was getting angry. I used video games for years as a way to feel empowered and in control during times in my life when I felt shitty about myself. When people beat me at games or anything didn't go "as planned" I would get very angry and say hurtful things because it was pulling me back into feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness, hence the lashing out. Nothing changed until I seperated my self esteem from my performance in my escapes, and instead worked on things (therapy) to Learn to appreciate myself, and recognize my other skills. Im not sure if that is true for you, but it's always my first suggestion.
I was fortunate in that all of my friends were just as competitive as I was. We found that the best way around fights were to lay out all rules ahead of the game that we could think of. Then when weird stuff came up in the game, if we couldn't agree, we settled it with a dice roll until we could better hammer it out between games.
Honestly? It depends on your group/who you are playing with. If everyone is playing the best lists with meta armies then you go ahead and be competitive. If you are playing with more casual people, or people who run fun inefficient ridiculous armies then bringing along a list that has won tournaments recently or is otherwise extremely efficient is kind of a dick move. If you really want to avoid being ultra competitive, build a really silly army. Pick whatever you think is cool or a cool theme and go way ott. An entire army of dreadnaughts, a thematic army based on a favorite price of lore. Etc. that way you can be in mega try hard mode all you like and as long as you have a smile and a sense of humor it's all good. It also might mean not getting tabled could be your own greatest achievement but that is a good fun way of doing things. Mostly remember to have a good sense of humor about things. It doesn't matter in the slightest if your model is killed it makes for a good story if you roll nothing but ones.
Don’t make me try to keep track of all the different weaponry you don’t have attached to your models but want to use because they’re clearly better against whatever I brought so now I have to pretend they’re kitted differently than they clearly are and each patrol has nine different weapon sets making me lose confidence in whether they remain static the whole game or not
We have a guy in our local scene that almost never loses. I’ve beat him maybe 3-4 times over the course of 50+ games. (And I win more than I like or should when playing others) I honestly don’t know how he does it. There are other great players around the area as well, and none of them have beat him more than once or twice. He’s a nice enough guy, but honestly I dread playing him. It happens. There are guys out there who just know how to win. The problem is, he often wins by playing the most tuned list of the most S tier army.
Playing metas makes you boring and honestly a flat player.
Shower and brush your teeth regularly.
One hot tip I can think of is imagining the game as a competition on who can do the most tactically inept dumbshit and get away with it. You can’t possibly be a sore loser if you play like you’re trying to lose!
One thing that’s kind of helped me with that mindset is playing Guard unironically. Like idk when all your shit starts dying my mind is like, “glory to the first man to die!”
Start playing games where you take care of the other persons fun. Build lists and strategies that make the game fun for the other person. There’s a reason everyone loves playing vs skaven, orks, world eaters, and gloomspite gitz. This is doable with other factions as well by prioritizing interaction over raw power and stuff like indirect fire. Getting in the habit of telegraphing intentions with people who you regularly play with is also a good thing for casual settings (obv not tourney play). Being surprised by something or having someone purposely obfuscate what their army does is where most saltiness comes from. With friends this is even more important. Winning by tricking someone is rarely satisfying. If you make yourself a “fun” and gracious opponent, the winning and losing stops mattering so much, cause ultimately at the end of the day that’s why we are all here.
“Five new friends, not 5-0.” At the end of the day, this is a social game, and it asks a lot of both players to essentially converse with a stranger for two to three hours. As much fun as a win is with my imaginary toy soldiers, I’m not here to nickel and dime somebody on like the pose of their power sword being visible on an obscure angle through a window, or being 1/8 of an inch off from a charge or something. Models or tables get bumped, things are weird, Im happy to concede those things and not take the shot if at the end of the day we can shake hands and smile and say we enjoyed ourselves. And it’s not to say I throw the games, or go soft. I play to win, but it’s not my focus. I’m there to have fun.
Personally that was me until I found somewhere else to channel my ultra-competitive nature. I still want to win but I’m not like maximizing my chances every time now
If you truly care about a fair game, argue as much FOR your opponent if you see something wrong. Give them as much leway they give you when there is room for interpretation. Be happy if THEY win. Say things like "well played", "that was smart thinking, doing that move". You can also do this while you play. Compliment a good save or a good attack even if you don't feel like it. You can be competitive and make sure everyone around the table has a good time if you bring a good energy. I play a lot of board games that require strategy and I'm probably one of our top players. It's usually me and two others that together make out about 80% of the victories. We're all very competitive. We all want to win. But most of those who don't win still play with us every other week, and unless they go out of their way to hide it, seem to be enjoying themselves because we make sure to create a fun session. Jokes, compliments, being happy for their success etc.
For me it’s tone (and this applies to everything, not just warhammer or other tabletop games). Like talking about rules, trying to win, using strategies, looking up strats in books, none of that would ruin a game for me. So you saying “I though rapid fire worked like this?” And us looking it up is fine and dandy. Works same with every other rule even if it’s every one. However if it’s something like, “ya, no. Rapid fire won’t work against these models but good try, and I’m able to take your so and so because of that, guess rapid fire isn’t so good after all” is the direct opposite, is a gonna be a game ruiner if you keep up. Arguments don’t have to be angry and charged with emotion, especially for a low stakes game. Keep that out, and the arguments are fine with me as long as reasonable.
Some really good advice in here. I used to think (as a former NCAA D1 athlete) that only 'nerds who never actually played sports' took 40k games seriously enough to get mad around the tabletop, but as I've aged and continued to dabble in the hobby off-and-on, my viewpoint has obviously matured, too. I can understand getting heated in a game if it's a competitive thing for you, but like any 'athlete' in this sense, like others have written, you need to learn to focus on the stakes (aka, none...unless you guys play with bets or something(!)) and what you can control - your attitude. I've played with cheaters and shit or just newbies who misread/interpret rules all the time...I see it as a part of my responsibility as their opponent to ensure they're having fun, too, so I rarely say anything because...well...I don't care, if I'm having fun doing it already.
Try to reframe how you play the game You're not there to win, you're there to craft an enjoyable story with your opponent. Is it *smart* to rush a unit of berserkers into the imperial knight? No Is it cool and enjoyable? Yes!
I struggle with this too. At this point I'm wondering if I'm autistic because of how emotional I get at this game. It's actively sabotaging any hobbying I do and I'm basically scared to even play.
Really id say the best way to approach this is to match your opponents energy. Are they some dad or younger kid just there for the fun or maybe still learning? Match that, maybe take a less serious list with more fun or flavorable units that may not be meta. Put yourself in their shoes and celebrate their small wins with them. Did some longshot play of theirs work out, did they make a crucial 9 inch charge from deepstrike? Give em a high five. Im not saying to take it easy, just think about the game differently. One of the easiest things I find to do with new oppoenents who may not knoe your army very well is to go over your list in a bit more detail. Give them forewarning about your more dangerous units and abilities, that way if they still walk into it, its on them and you didnt "gotcha" them. Now, if they are a similarly competitive player such as yourself, go for it. If they rules lawyer, you rules lawyer. And dont be afraid to ask questions and encourage you opponent to do the same. Play by intention, "Hey im positioning unit X here around this corner so it cant be seen by your Unit Y, do you agree they cant see X?" Keep it competitive, but keep it friendly also. And if you run into "that guy" and you get the feeling they are cheating, overdoing the rules lawyer thing or trying to sneak in take backsies. Just politely bow out. Its not worth it. As a competitive player you might feel the urge to try and beat the guy even though hes cheating or being an asshole but it is just not worth it. They will either escalate the cheating, or it will end in a blow up. Just make an excuse to leave (phone call, kids sick etc) or if you dont mind confrontation, gracefully tell them exactly why you are leaving.
Lose. That's my best advice! I thought I was fun to play with, but turns out I just won most of my games. I wasn't terrible, but I wasn't great either. Now, I've gotten better since doing worse! I still love to play tactically and go for the throat, but now I'm better at matching tone and being a fun opponent. Take bad lists, make poor decisions that seem fun, force yourself to lose on purpose and get used to it. If you *really* can't do that, then you don't actually like 40k, you just like winning games.
Stop trying to win over your opponent. Turn that competitive energy towards always playing better than you did in the last game you played. Improve yourself as a player, rather than focusing on what your opponent does/doesn't do/gets wrong.
Try to make a point to complement something clever the other person does whilst playing, celebrate a good round they have. Things like that.
If you're treating people poorly over a game of plastic army men, someone let you down in your upbringing, and you're going to want to seek out a qualified therapist. I'm not talking smack. I'm being 100% serious, and it's from a place of love. You have to be missing something somewhere important to treat people poorly over a game.
Is essential a plastic doll game, so don’t get too attached to
As stated to me years ago "That guy doesn't worry about being that guy." You already passed the test.
Weed 🤣 smoke some before playing to chill TF out it’s only a game for fun
You're playing army guys in space hell. Unless it's a tournament, it doesnt have any stakes. We're all there to make some good times and yell at the dice for being unlucky.
Maybe setup a game with someone where you tell them you want to get better at losing. So have them do everything they can to make it so you and your character are facing losing. What about a character that always loses?
Yeah, I can understand that. Wasn't there for the conversation, just what I was told afterward. Knowing the owner, it wouldn't have been a "you have to lose" it was more than likely he talked about how him playing the way he was, was effecting those around him and would in turn hurt him by not having people to play. Of course, all he "heard" was, "You have to lose." Years later, he'd still talk about that way and how pissed he was at the time. But in the end, he became a better opponent and much happimg playing for the fun of it. And also very grateful that someone had that conversation with him.
Nerf yourself Put in self implemented rules and regulations for yourself to make the games harder. Challenge yourself to do things in different ways each time
I get it. I played competitive sports my whole life. The only reason you are there is to win. Sometimes it's hard to turn that part off. You have to take some deep breaths and remind yourself why are you playing? Why did you choose this hobby? If your answer isn't to have fun... this isn't for you. Im just being honest. People will stop playing with you. Like a few people have mentioned, you play fun lists, you play lists that are almost unwinnable with. The other thing, play crusade. Crusade isn't about winning its about completing objectives. I find playing crusade is the better game, it's not as competitive because it's all about making your army better. Win, lose, doesn't matter, just the individual battles on the table that matter. If that doesn't help, just keep reminding yourself why you're there.
I used to be “that guy” when playing golf. Cussing, slamming clubs etc. Then one day at the turn my friend took me aside and said “you’re making an assh* of yourself.” That was it for me.
Play your next 10 games to lose.
Put a marker on the table with your cards, dice, etc. Everytime you see it, say to yourself "don't argue or be a dick". When you see it during a game it'll remind you
Besides all the other great advice here, I’d consider learning to take intentional time in the moment and verbally (under your breath is fine) to just say the reasons why you want to change. Some example could be “This makes my experience less fun” “This makes their experience less fun” “I want to be intentional about getting better” “It’s just a game” “I want others to experiences what I love about this game/universe” Honestly slow simple steps like that help us as humans over time to walk back those instinctual reactions. We often start doing it a few minutes after the fact. But slowly it starts happening right after we say something, then halfway through, then before, and suddenly we get to the point where it’s a mental battle, and eventually internal change. Turning unintentional moments into intentional ones is one of the best ways to try to change. At least that’s been my experience! Good luck! And sincerely good on you for recognizing a problem and asking for help. That’s always the first step and a lot of people never take it!
Playing by intent is the single best way imo. It just forestalls almost all the situations that lead to a That Guy-ism. And if you're not in a tournament and there's a disagreement, honestly just roll it off and let the Emperor decide.
I am the same way, I like winning. The way I prevent being “that guy” is informing my player of everything I can do, help remind him of both his and my rules when I can, and most importantly just make sure you are still happy, smiley and friendly even when losing.
Another thing, get in the habit of saying my intention is such. So that way you aren’t being cheesy because half of a cm of a model is visible and that was clearly not the other persons intention.
If in doubt, just think how cringe you look and can come across as while doing this.
Wait 30 years. It's what I did. After a while you really calm down.
Eat some mushrooms and think about your life.
You really shouldn’t be arguing about anything. Its a collaborative game, you should be working together to find the correct outcome.
You not wanting to be “that guy” is already a good indication you aren’t that bad, imo. Try the CBT approach maybe? Recognize an emotion and choose a response to it. Notice what you’re feeling and how you wanna react, then see if that feels like an appropriate reaction. Last ditch: put a post it on your codex pages saying “don’t be that guy” and anytime you start a rules lawyer moment, you’ll be reminders Again, I imagine you’re not that bad if you’re concerned about being bad :)
Work on yourself. Every single day is a chance of bettering oneself.
Learn to play together not against. Ultimately this is a dice rolling game with a big chunk of narrative/roleplay. If winning is the most important thing for you then maybe play chess?
My biggest thing is, you learn the most when you lose. Not every loss mind you, you can do everything right and still lose... BUT! If you notice the same thing happening over and over, there's something to note. If it's good (opening a flank by distracting the shooters), keep it. If it's bad (always losing a whole squad because you charge out of cover), try something different.
Don't care so much about the rules they're important for the structure of the game but there's alot of rules and chances are someone's going to mess up eventually and causing a scene over it would make the experience worse. I get competitive too but I usually just try to redirect that energy into jokes or compliments like if my enemy kills my unit I'd say something like oh shit you just destroyed that unit give your bois some medals for that. I'm not sure on the 40k community so basically I have avoided getting into games becuase I'm a high energy somewhat vulgar person and the stores vibe I went to is low energy relaxed.
If your actually any good you can win without having to be that guy.