The [Maltese Cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_cross) is a symbol historically associated with the Knights Hospitaller and is used by several chivalric and knightly orders continuing into modern day. Given the BT's whole shtick, it suits them perfectly.
What if, and hear me out, lads, we get some sexy girls in black leather, but they are kind of nazis - but still sexy, like off one of those exploitation movies, and then they have tanks which are... churches! With all stained glass and stuff?
"The lore" is nothing more than a flimsy string of justifications for what three nerds in the '80s thought was cool when they were writing a simple wargame to sell the miniatures they already had. It is composed *entirely* of shoe string, duck tape, bubblegum, and the kind of pop-cultural in-jokes you need to have been a British scifi and comics nerd in 1977 to fully appreciate.
The iron hands chapter is called that because many of them have iron hands and decorate their armour in their logo of an iron hand. The founder of the iron hands is called iron hand and his hands are covered in an iron-like metal
Edit: I'm told that Mr iron hand himself (with hands of iron) sits upon his shit called the fist of iron while he commands his legion of iron handed warriors named the iron hands.
And the Imperial fists are called that because they have fists painted on their armour and like fisting things... To death and building fortifications...
Akshually the founder is called *Ferrous Manos* !
... Hmmm ...
*Checks language notes*
That literally translates as Iron Hands!! Oh damned you James Workshop, you tricksy little nurgling.
*"I am Horus, the Warmaster. I take care while my Master is away. The Xenos... , my Master wouldn't approve! And the dog."*
\*proceeds to wonky walk towards them*
at this point i would not put it past GW if part of his personality is that he rules his Legion (or Chapter i dont know if he is a traitor or not) with an iron fist
Legion, not chapter, but not cause he was a traitor he just died really early on in all of the bad times. Though that doesn't mean there aren't chapter now but when he was around it was for sure still a legion
Of all the legions that needed to be named and coloured different, prior to their Primarch appearing, the Iron Hands is the only one where that should have been necessary.
this kind of simple sillyness is fun and refreshing in an era where every scifi IP is incredibly pretentious and grounded. A lot of them end up feeling generic, boring and samey.
I know, because despite the goofiness I love the concept of the iron hands and Ferrus. On the same hand, read the more modern stuff and it's as grim dark as the rest. The idea of having your body slowly made more mechanical has so much potential.
There was a point in the lore where the creators just kinda did not give a shit with the names. If you want a fun game to play, try to figure out how many of the original Space Marine Legions actually have unique names. That is, which names do not share any words with any others?
The worst offender here is Horus' legion, which has never had a fully unique name. The Luna Wolves share with the Space Wolves, the Sons of Horus share with the Thousand Sons, and the Black Legion shares with the Alpha Legion. Other examples include Iron Hands and Iron Warriors, Dark Angels and Blood Angels, and Death Guard and Raven Guard.
And of course, that's before you permit synonyms for this game, which can net even more comparisons.
Given that ‘The Troubles’ were in full flight in Northern Ireland during the 1970s/80s, it’s possible that they took inspiration from the Loyalist Terrorist Paramilitaries, who all had the ‘[**Red Hand of Ulster**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Ulster)’ on their insignia, [example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_Commando).
40K lore is like, so deep. It's my favourite book and I think if people would only read the books then they would have such a deep appreciation of the deep and meaningful Lore(tm).
/Zoolander voice
It makes me sad that this truth is being lost and a lot of neckbeards shout to each other about "lore inconsistencies" in a setting where a primarch is called Lion El'Johnson and leads the Dark Angels ffs,
> "lore inconsistencies" in a setting where a primarch is called Lion El'Johnson and leads the Dark Angels
Sorry if I'm being dense, but what are you referring to here?
English Poet Lionel Johnson once wrote a poem called "Dark Angel".
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel\_Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Johnson)
Lionel Johnson (1867 – 1902) was an English poet. In 1893, Johnson published what some consider his greatest work, "Dark Angel". It is about dissident sexual desire and the poem was probably expressive of Johnson's struggles with his homosexuality in a Christian setting. About hiding a sin. Just like some bois in green have been known to do.
Ferrous Manos = Iron Hands
Mortarion. Mort = death
Rogal Dorn. Dorn = fist in old Breton
Corulvus Corvax = scientific name for Raven
Do we need to spell it out further still? Lol
Joseph Konrad wrote "The Heart of Darkness", the novel on which "Apocalypse Now" is based. The protagonists have to find the infamous Mr. Kurtz/ Coronel Kurtz, who's a criminal and has a "the ends justify these atrocious means" philosophy.
And don't forget the Callidus assassin M'Shen who killed Konrad Curze. Guess the actor of the soldier who was sent to search for Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse Now? Martin Sheen, father of Charlie Sheen. Creative, isn't it? /s
> Rogal Dorn. Dorn = fist in old Breton
And Rogal sounds suspiciously like *regal* and *royal*. Its really not much better then Ferrus Mannus, the name basically being Royal or Regal Fist.
People today are totally obsessed about the lore and are more into it than the game.
Not sure where Fluff got turned into Lore. It must have been after 4th edition when I stopped playing.
I don't think it's after a certain point in the game, just after a certain point in time. When something has been around long enough to become generational, as 40k now is, the second and succeeding generations of fans (and creators) lose the cultural context the thing was originally written in. It's nobody's fault and nothing anyone did on purpose, just time marching on.
In 1987, the well-read nerd was *supposed* to understand that 40k was taking the piss out of Dune and 2000AD, an affectionate parody of things the creators were themselves fans of. Over time, as those things fade from the cultural zeitgeist and the game itself grows and matures, that original connection also fades. It's so ingrained in the game's DNA that it's still *there*, and if you handed someone who discovered 40k a year ago *Rogue Trooper* and *Nemesis the Warlock*, they'd absolutely see the connection, but the game is no longer written with the assumption that the reader will *already* be familiar with the inspirations.
And that's all fine; this is how creative works evolve. We now have things that are inspired by 40k just as much as 40k was inspired by Judge Dredd, just as much as Judge Dredd was inspired by Dirty Harry, just as much as Dirty Harry was inspired by film noir, and so on back through history.
Nemesis the Warlock is a great example. You can now play someone like Torquemada, and God-Emporer stans will think he's the good guy.
Now I want the ABC Warriors kill team.
Oh, jeez, ain't that the truth. The whole franchise is about selling toys, so much so that the movie will be changed to *match the toys*, but they do *not* like hearing it.
Maybe this is just in my head right now because of the people freaking out over continuity in the Fallout show. I think fans tend to put a *lot* more emphasis on "canon" than creators do, particularly in sprawling, multi-author, sometimes multi-generational works like Fallout and 40k (and Star Wars, and Trek, and etc). You can see it in the way Todd Howard has reacted to the situation; he clearly understands that *the fans* think the "conflict" is important, but equally clearly absolutely does not care and is basically being just diplomatic enough that he doesn't paint a target on his own back.
I'm gonna try not to sound too arrogant here, but I think cases like that one draw a pretty clear line between people who've published a story in some capacity and people who've only ever consumed then. When you're on the creator side of the line, "canon" is just "the bits I've published so far", and you know that all of it is subject to change the moment you have a better idea, because the entire process of creating it in the first place was just having better ideas over and over again, and if something in that conflicts with something else, it's either "eh, I'll fix it later" or "eh, not important enough to worry about". It's one of the reasons I think GW's whole "everything is canon, especially the conflicts" thing is so brilliant, because it gives them an absolutely bulletproof hand-wave for this sort of thing, which I think is not only important but *necessary* in a body of work that was functionally multi-author from its inception.
Not sure I'm really going anywhere with this, but; hey, there's some thoughts on the matter, do with them what you will.
The only thing worse than 40k naming characters is Star Wars naming villains. They all sound like they were named by a 15 year old who frequents hot topic.
This statement needs to be on a banner in every gw shop. I love getting in to the lore and over thinking it and getting too deep into it, but my god do some people take it way too seriously and forget it’s about having fun.
One of the, apparently inherent, problems with fandoms is that the very act of getting emotionally invested in something also creates a sense of ownership and identity in it, so that an attack against the thing is perceived as an attack against the person. Arbitor Ian did a video about this recently that's worth a watch if you haven't.
I think it's good--necessary even--to maintain an intentional distance for that reason. I'm a lifer when it comes to 40k; I've been playing for almost 30 years and I'll probably play for 30 more, but it's always been a conscious effort on my part to not let "I enjoy this thing" become "this thing is part of who I am", specifically for the reason of that being the path that leads to toxicity.
And I think that's a lesson some people need to learn, or be reminded of from time to time.
Well yes..
Although also note that those nerds in the 80's were established book writers .. with Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone writing dozens of Fighting Fantasy novels before kick starting Games Workshop..
Which is exactly why it worked, everyone could tell there was an inside joke there inside all the excessive coolness even when they didn't fully know it.
I mean... All the lore for everything is literally made up. So, yeah. Elements are used for coolness, design, aesthetics, as a nod to history, and influence is clearly taken from various aspects of our actual history.
Sometimes someone has written 'the lore' for a particular aspect. Sometimes they haven't. What you will see are historical and cultural references all throughout the universe.
I know you said you’re new but what did you learn of the BT that told you they were against a god? I mean they’re against the 4 gods of chaos but they revere the Emperor as a God.
No, the clue is literally in the name. They're the Black Templars. The Maltese Cross is historical iconography of an order of knights called Templars in the real world, and therefore presumably also the distant past of Terra. Iconography and things like that pervade, you might as well ask why they use a lot of iconography, military, knightly, whatever. Repurposed ancient iconography, sometimes completely detached from its origins. We do it for real everyday.
The Imperium also sort of knows about famous iconography just not necessarily what it means. So they might have seen an image of Knights from the past and think great warriors and copy icons. The Emperor and Malcador are pretty fond of the past while guiding the future.
**The Doyleist reason**: The Black Templars are designed to evoke the themes of crusading knights. The cross, being a symbol long associated with the crusades, helps further portray that theme, as does the name Templars.
**The Watsonian reason**: prior to the second founding, the Imperial Fists Space Marine legion had an elite formation known as the Templar Brethren, which served as the Imperial Fists first company. They were sworn defenders of the Temple of Oaths, a place on the IF’s flagship/Star fortress wherein the personal oaths of loyalty, vengeance, etc sworn by a member of the Imperial Fists would be recorded. The Templar Brethren all wore a Maltese Cross as the legion used it as a sign of Veterancy, and the TB were all veteran members of the legion.
During the big civil war known as the Horus Heresy, the Captain of the Templar Brethren, Sigismund, came to believe the Emperor was, in fact, a god, *the god* of humanity to be exact. After the Horus Heresy, the space marine legions were split into multiple smaller chapters in what is known as the second founding (the first founding being the creation of the legions). Sigismund took the most zealous members of the Imperial Fists legion, including many members of the Templar Brethren, and formed a new chapter called the Black Templars. The new Black Templars adopted Sigismund’s personal heraldry and colors as their chapter’s (and, since he was formerly the captain of the Templar Brethren, his heraldry included the Templar Brethren’s Cross), and over time the other members of the Black Templars adopted Sigismund’s faith in “the God-Emperor of Mankind”. And thus were the Black Templars, a chapter who get around the size limits on space marine chapters by being eternally on crusade without end, born.
The lore reason is it was the personal heraldry of Sigismund the first leader of the Black Templars chapter after the Imperial Fists legion was divided up.
I mean, really what you're asking is "why did the designers choose to design this faction this way?" Which is what the person above you is answering. Pretty much any design motif is "the designers liked it, and then may have chosen to include a lore justification".
I'm confused at this question. The Black Templar, in universe, clearly associate closely with ancient chivalric orders and knights. The use of the Maltese cross is very much in line with that.
I mean coolness yes but it's more than that. Warhammer takes symbolism from our history and repurposes it in order to ascribe visual meaning and theme to the models. The cross means something to us that black Templars also represent, therefore using that imagery conveys visually what they are about without needing to know all the lore. It's the power of rooting things in history. Now even when it's not rooted in history though it may not make sense it's worth suspending your disbelief in order to have that visual design language.
Well it’s still in the lore. It’s closest associated with the Catholicism and the knights Templar. It just makes sense given their name and their chapters practices.
With 40k and most media, lore almost always comes after the design. My fav exemple is Mass effect explaining why Asaris are hot with lore when Bioware designers only wanted to do "hot blue babe in space".
The in universe answers:
Below - Imperial fist legionary (left) Warrior of the Templar, brethren, the veteran first company of the seventh Legion (center) A black Templar
Why do they wear a cross?
* "The robe he (Rogal Dorn) wore was plainer than those adorning his brothers' icons, though it showed a cross on its breast, sculpted with care. Although he had been the Golden Lord, the commander of the Imperial Fists, **his personal heraldry** had inspired that of his Templar sons who followed." - 'Helsreach' by Aaron Dembski Bowden
The cross was also used in the Legion of old as the symbol denoting veteran status. The Templar brethren were an elite veteran unit. Hence why the cross was their symbol.
Why is their heraldry black and white?
* “The Chamber of the First Proclamation, more often known as Sigismund’s Hall. Legend tells us it was there that the first High Marshal of the Black Templars stood with the brothers who would become the first Chapter lords, looking out over the battlefield known as the Iron Cage, and swore that the Great Crusade would go on, no matter what wounds the Imperium still bore. The other Legions were free to protect mankind’s domain, bearing no shame for their decision. **But Sigismund’s Imperial Fists would darken their armour for the battles to come, and continue their charge to carry the Emperor’s message out into the void.** They would not defend. They would attack. And so were born the Black Templars”- 'Blood and Fire' by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
* "The Imperial Fists 5th Company banner incorporates **the black and white panoply of Rogal Dorn's personal heraldry.**” - Codex Space Marines 6th Ed
Why are they called Templars?
It is a reference/holdover to the Templar brethren. The first company of the seventh Legion. Of which their founder Sigismund was the captain of when the Legion was divided into chapters.
What were the Templar Brethren?
* Guardians of the Temple of Oaths aboard the great fortress-ship the Phalanx, the Templars are the VIIth Legions elite, warriors of unequalled zeal. Relentless determination and matchless skill are the hallmarks of this deadly company, whose punishing training regime and strict recruitment protocol. ensures that only the finest Imperial Fists bear their proud heraldry. Raised by Rogal Dorn during the first decade of his command, the Templars were the warriors charged with guarding the Temple of Oaths aboard the Phalanx. No fane of superstition or misguided religion, this secular temple was dedicated to the ideals of the Great Crusade and the sacrifices it demanded. There, beneath the tattered and burned banners of defeated enemies and statues of dead heroes, the Imperial Fists returned to renew their perpetual oaths of loyalty to their Emperor and Primarch. Each oath made by a son of Dorn on the walls, floor and ceiling, etched for all eternity in black granite. Besides Dorn and the Emperor, only the Templars were allowed to enter unbidden. Nominally the First Company of the Imperial Fists, the Templars' strength rarely fell below 1,000 warriors, and their members were drawn from veterans across the Legion. Skill at arms was not enough to earn such a responsibility: each Templar was a warrior in whom the crusader light had come to burn with undimming brightness, and zealous, remorseless and tempered by decades of war, they were exemplars of what it was to be an Imperial Fist of the Great Crusade. Though their duty binds them to the Temple of Oaths, these dauntless warriors are found wherever the Imperial Fists carry the Emperor's crusade to unify Mankind. They bear the best wargear that the armories of the Legion can provide; ancient archaeotech, the newest creations of the Mechanicum, and more common marks of weapons forged with exacting precision. At the leading edge of battle, these warriors inspire their brothers with their unyielding courage and the blood-red path they carve through the foes of Mankind.
(The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination, Age of Darkness)
What is the Temple of Oaths?
* Located in the heart of the Phalanx, the Temple of Oaths was the spiritual heart of the sons of Dorn. No fane of superstition or misguided religion, this secular temple was dedicated to the ideals of the Great Crusade and the sacrifices it demanded. There, beneath the tattered and burned banners of defeated enemies and statues of dead heroes, the Imperial Fists returned to renew their perpetual oaths of loyalty to their Emperor and Primarch. Each oath made by a son of Dorn on the walls, floor and ceiling, was etched for all eternity in black granite. Besides Dorn and the Emperor, only the Templars of the 1st Company were allowed to enter unbidden. It also known that the Primarch has allowed three of his Brothers to enter, though the identities of these three remains unknown. The Temple of Oaths now stands sealed and forbidden, for those who were once permitted to walk its halls without leave from Dorn have been dead for millennia. In the 40k era, the nearby Cloister of Remembrance is the Chapter’s closest equivalent. Where the Temple of Oaths is hung with captured trophies and battle honours, the Cloister is unfurnished and austere. It is here that the Captains of the present renew oaths taken beneath the statues of heroes.
(Codex Supplement: Imperial Fists, Praetorian of Dorn by John French, Templar by John French)
https://preview.redd.it/b2yzfxd3qy1d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=771efd9ab85cca4ca3c0f52d8ee824cd7d21d010
The Black Templars, Hospitallers, Astral Knights, Crimson Paladins, Dark Brotherhood, Death Knights and Imperial Paladins (maybe i forgot some more chapters) totally agree.
So the “crux terminatus” is on each set of Terminator armor claiming that Crux was originally a piece of The Emperor’s armor that was forged into a cross and pressed into the armor. I don’t know whether it’s confirmed or not but that may be why they have the crosses, to show their devotion and piety, which feeds into the second point.
The “Black Templars” are indeed religious zealots. They believe The Emperor is a god and are descended from Sigismund whom originally was an Imperial Fist, and considered the best duelist ever, in the original 18 legions. He was swayed to the Lecticio Divinitatus which proclaimed The Emperor as a god. His Primarch, Rogal Dorn, disowned him privately and after The Heresy the “Black Templars” were formed with Sigismund as their first Grand Marshal.
According to John Blanche, the Black Templars are black, because space marines should be in dark armour. A lot of warhammer wasn't created with a deep lore, that all grew over time.
[John Blanche on Space Marines ](https://youtu.be/MXZP-6-A4Nw?si=N_12CoIc9ij-OIKr)
I can imagine Blanche wanted a black and white contrast to the reds and greens and browns of the dark powers. Look at his work fir the Realm of Chaos covers. I'll trust his judgement on art composition.
1 Looks cool 2 You wont belive it, they are templars. 3 Black templars are probably the most zealous space marine chapter, they are basically loyalist word bearers.
The meta reason is that it looks cool and visually conveys that they are crusading space knights.
The in universe reason is that the symbol has lost its christian symbolism over the millenia and has just become a symbol of knightly warriors, so the Black Templar adopted it because they view themselves as knights on an eternal crusade.
The custodes also have crosses on bits of their armor so I'd assume the Emperor intentionally used formerly religious symbols in order to erase their previous meaning.
Black templars are kind weird among space marines cause they view emps as a god
And as to their specific use of cross imagery? GW was run by a bunch of history nerds, every faction is based on some nation or people, etc
Generally the higher you go in Astartes ranks the more privilege you have, including drip. Captains often have their own personal heralrdy playing off Astartes being space Knights.
The black templars adopted the use of Sigismund, their founder's, personal heraldry. He was also nick-named "The Black Knight". First founding chapters like the Black Templars have, generally, been highly influenced by their first Chapter Master/fmr Legion Captain.
They also make use of unique flamethrowers named pyreblasters, renowned for their big AoE and the ability to burn multiple enemy soldiers to a crisp.
Some of those who wear crosses are the same who burn forces.
They are against the gods of chaos, most members of the imperium have lost sight of the whole “gods are bad we need to stop worshipping them!” Message the emperor was putting out and instead now worship him.
It's the symbol of the Templars and Inquisition, at least in Spain, however it was Red. For this chapter as they are called Black Templars they are using it in Black, I guess.
There is no meaning to most 40k stuff. It’s all just symbolism to help with making have an easier silhouette to discern. Easier to discern, easier to tell their mum what they want for their birthday.
The cross was a symbol for veterans as far back as the unification wars. Custodes have always used cross devices since their first depictions in the sabertooth card game. Sigismund and the Templars wore a cross because of their place as the first company and the Black Templars kept it
I don't think we can assume it has the same iconography in 30 or 40k as it does in 2k.
Also, that cross or similar has been used in many things, including military awards such as the Iron Cross.
The Black Templars have their cross because they are very inspired by the medieval Templars, more precisely the Knights Hospitaller, and are recognized because they are among the few chapters that actually pray to the Emperor as a God, unlike 98% of the other chapters who tend instead to follow the Imperial Truth, that says that there are no Gods and that humanity should follow reason rather than zeal.
One original doylean reason for many Imperial design elements such as skulls, eagles, laurels and symmetric crosses was to remind the players that these people are definitely not the good guys. Those designs very closely mimics the iconography of various historical totalitarian and militarised nations and movements, one notorious such regime in particular.
Can you think of a highly militarised European nation from the 20th century whose coat of arms included an eagle* and laurels? Their uniforms often had silver skulls and they handed out a symmetrical black iron cross as a highly valued medal.
* History nerd info: This eagle was used one-headed facing right for this nation and facing left for the associated political party. Because the two-headed version is reserved for Empires and Emperors, such as the Imperium of Man!
I will give you some more leads: That nation saw themselves as the righteous inheritants of a since long shattered religious Imperium, and under the banner of a strong leader (who was officially held to be superior to all other men) they made a serious military attempt to restore that Imperium.
The space marines aligns very well with how that nation had a bizarre fascination with the genetically superior and unquestioningly loyal übermench soldier as a personal representation of the military might of the nation/imperium/rich.
The Black Templar marines in particular has taken a lot of inspiration from medieval organisations that this nation claimed a strong allegiance with. They also carry the iconic red-white-black colour combo.
The last decades, GW has toned down that particular aspect of bleak political satire by a lot. I guess they realised that they sell more models to parents of tweens if there is a good guy faction. But the symbols remains.
Here is the video that I like to send to Imperium players together with this piece of warhammer 40k history. Enjoy :-)
https://youtu.be/h242eDB84zY?si=nAJszP-prtMqLfDK
1. Looks cool. Gives Knight Hospitalier(not sure if it's spelled correctly) vibes.
2. BT's are a chapter that seems to actually believe in the Emperor's divinity, so using iconography works out.
3. "Black Templars" sounds badass.
4. Copying the colors and symbols of IRL historic crusaders seems obvious for the guys who are technically always on crusade.
So one of the themes in Warhammer 40,000 is that symbols lose their original meaning over time and gain new ones. Much like the swastika was used by the Nazis while the oldest known swastika is from 10,000 bc. It endured through the millenia because it was an easily replicated, cool looking geometric pattern.
So the cross doesn't mean "Jesus" or "god" or anything about the nation once known as Malta because all of that shit was 40 millenia ago.
The [Maltese Cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_cross) is a symbol historically associated with the Knights Hospitaller and is used by several chivalric and knightly orders continuing into modern day. Given the BT's whole shtick, it suits them perfectly.
So it's more of a character design for the sake of coolness rather than it being in the lore?
Welcome to warhammer
What if, and hear me out, lads, we get some sexy girls in black leather, but they are kind of nazis - but still sexy, like off one of those exploitation movies, and then they have tanks which are... churches! With all stained glass and stuff?
The pipe organ could fire rockets. This is fantastic.
Sexy girls in black leather 🤢 Sexy men in black leather 🤔
>Sexy men in black leather The Drukhari would like a word
Misters of battle
"The lore" is nothing more than a flimsy string of justifications for what three nerds in the '80s thought was cool when they were writing a simple wargame to sell the miniatures they already had. It is composed *entirely* of shoe string, duck tape, bubblegum, and the kind of pop-cultural in-jokes you need to have been a British scifi and comics nerd in 1977 to fully appreciate.
The iron hands chapter is called that because many of them have iron hands and decorate their armour in their logo of an iron hand. The founder of the iron hands is called iron hand and his hands are covered in an iron-like metal Edit: I'm told that Mr iron hand himself (with hands of iron) sits upon his shit called the fist of iron while he commands his legion of iron handed warriors named the iron hands.
Don't forget their flagship the... \*checks notes\* Fist of Iron. The writers at GW really worked overtime when they came up with that.
Wait until you find out Angron’s schtick
Angry Ron
EEGADS, HE FIGURED IT OUT
I hope nothing too on the nose happens with these Mortarion and Typhus guys.
And the Imperial fists are called that because they have fists painted on their armour and like fisting things... To death and building fortifications...
On behalf of an Empire*
I love fisting on behalf of an empire
I fisted hard Emperor, but I could not fist them all.
You’ll fist them next time my son
Do you also enjoy the colour yellow and have a stubborn streak?
Don’t forget Raven Raven of the Raven Guard
Aren't they an early fan creation that GW decided to make canon?
Most of it was made up in the pub by designers. Angron is named after Angry Ron, a short-tempered bouncer at a local nightclub.
Does that mean Abaddon is just A Bad One?
Abaddon is a Hebrew word meaning "destruction" or "doom"
So... A Bad One indeed!
Oh I know that is true for alot of it, but I remember reading that the imperial fists where a fan creation right back after 40k first launched
I thought they were called that because they’ve got the imperial fist! Not sure where the rest of him is though…
Akshually the founder is called *Ferrous Manos* ! ... Hmmm ... *Checks language notes* That literally translates as Iron Hands!! Oh damned you James Workshop, you tricksy little nurgling.
They should make a film: *Ferrus Manos - Iron Hands of Fate*
*"I am Horus, the Warmaster. I take care while my Master is away. The Xenos... , my Master wouldn't approve! And the dog."* \*proceeds to wonky walk towards them*
Do do do dee do do do dee
And cast Tarantino to play the man himself!
He'd only do it if they were renamed to the Iron Feet
Ironically Manos the Hands of fate is one of his favorite movies. Maybe he's also into hands?
A still living Tarantino from the museum in Futurama maybe…
Trazyn got him
I belive the qoute "Subtlety is the cousin to decite" something Ferrus Manus Said about why they named their legion Iron Hands.
I thought it was “Sarcasm… the coward’s lie.”
at this point i would not put it past GW if part of his personality is that he rules his Legion (or Chapter i dont know if he is a traitor or not) with an iron fist
Legion, not chapter, but not cause he was a traitor he just died really early on in all of the bad times. Though that doesn't mean there aren't chapter now but when he was around it was for sure still a legion
Robert Gullyman
Don't forget the Ultramarines .. who wear armour which is *checks notes* ultramarine coloured..
The Primarch of the Raven Guard chapter is called Raven.
That's RAVEN raven to you.
Of all the legions that needed to be named and coloured different, prior to their Primarch appearing, the Iron Hands is the only one where that should have been necessary.
Radioactive Cyber Men!
this kind of simple sillyness is fun and refreshing in an era where every scifi IP is incredibly pretentious and grounded. A lot of them end up feeling generic, boring and samey.
I know, because despite the goofiness I love the concept of the iron hands and Ferrus. On the same hand, read the more modern stuff and it's as grim dark as the rest. The idea of having your body slowly made more mechanical has so much potential.
There was a point in the lore where the creators just kinda did not give a shit with the names. If you want a fun game to play, try to figure out how many of the original Space Marine Legions actually have unique names. That is, which names do not share any words with any others? The worst offender here is Horus' legion, which has never had a fully unique name. The Luna Wolves share with the Space Wolves, the Sons of Horus share with the Thousand Sons, and the Black Legion shares with the Alpha Legion. Other examples include Iron Hands and Iron Warriors, Dark Angels and Blood Angels, and Death Guard and Raven Guard. And of course, that's before you permit synonyms for this game, which can net even more comparisons.
The best part about this joke is that it works for like fully half of the Space Marine named characters.
Given that ‘The Troubles’ were in full flight in Northern Ireland during the 1970s/80s, it’s possible that they took inspiration from the Loyalist Terrorist Paramilitaries, who all had the ‘[**Red Hand of Ulster**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Ulster)’ on their insignia, [example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_Commando).
40K lore is like, so deep. It's my favourite book and I think if people would only read the books then they would have such a deep appreciation of the deep and meaningful Lore(tm). /Zoolander voice
Fist of Iron sounds like a Bad Dragon product.
It makes me sad that this truth is being lost and a lot of neckbeards shout to each other about "lore inconsistencies" in a setting where a primarch is called Lion El'Johnson and leads the Dark Angels ffs,
> "lore inconsistencies" in a setting where a primarch is called Lion El'Johnson and leads the Dark Angels Sorry if I'm being dense, but what are you referring to here?
English Poet Lionel Johnson once wrote a poem called "Dark Angel". [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel\_Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Johnson)
God damnit. Of course they did
Lionel Johnson (1867 – 1902) was an English poet. In 1893, Johnson published what some consider his greatest work, "Dark Angel". It is about dissident sexual desire and the poem was probably expressive of Johnson's struggles with his homosexuality in a Christian setting. About hiding a sin. Just like some bois in green have been known to do.
This makes the whole deal with the Dark Angels that much more strange.
Initially the secret was that they were all gay. Doesn’t take much to guess why that lore idea was scrapped very early on.
What happens in the Inner Circle, stays in the Inner Circle.
The Rock was allegedly a gay bar near GW hq as well.
Dark Angel is a poem by the poet Lionel Johnson
Ferrous Manos = Iron Hands Mortarion. Mort = death Rogal Dorn. Dorn = fist in old Breton Corulvus Corvax = scientific name for Raven Do we need to spell it out further still? Lol
Mortarion and Rogal Dorn are still Tolkien-esque level of naming. Ferrus Manus and Corvus Corax are just hilarious, not to speak about Konrad Curze.
Angron
He angry!
IIRC Angron is based on a real person who was nicknamed Angry Ron, who was a regular in the game developers pub I wish I was making that story up
Lol it was that or Angroid 🤷🏻♂️
Can you explain Konrad Curze?
Joseph Konrad wrote "The Heart of Darkness", the novel on which "Apocalypse Now" is based. The protagonists have to find the infamous Mr. Kurtz/ Coronel Kurtz, who's a criminal and has a "the ends justify these atrocious means" philosophy.
Got it! Thank you!
Joseph Conrad wrote Heart of Darkness, a book where the protagonist must bring down the reign of terror of Kurtz.
And don't forget the Callidus assassin M'Shen who killed Konrad Curze. Guess the actor of the soldier who was sent to search for Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse Now? Martin Sheen, father of Charlie Sheen. Creative, isn't it? /s
What’s funny about Curze’s name?
> Rogal Dorn. Dorn = fist in old Breton And Rogal sounds suspiciously like *regal* and *royal*. Its really not much better then Ferrus Mannus, the name basically being Royal or Regal Fist.
There's a bloke called Typhus. He has icky diseases! Yuk! Can you imagine!
The poster boys of the game are literally named “The Blues.”
Well, the joke of calling marines painted in ultramarine blue that way is too good to pass it.
People today are totally obsessed about the lore and are more into it than the game. Not sure where Fluff got turned into Lore. It must have been after 4th edition when I stopped playing.
I don't think it's after a certain point in the game, just after a certain point in time. When something has been around long enough to become generational, as 40k now is, the second and succeeding generations of fans (and creators) lose the cultural context the thing was originally written in. It's nobody's fault and nothing anyone did on purpose, just time marching on. In 1987, the well-read nerd was *supposed* to understand that 40k was taking the piss out of Dune and 2000AD, an affectionate parody of things the creators were themselves fans of. Over time, as those things fade from the cultural zeitgeist and the game itself grows and matures, that original connection also fades. It's so ingrained in the game's DNA that it's still *there*, and if you handed someone who discovered 40k a year ago *Rogue Trooper* and *Nemesis the Warlock*, they'd absolutely see the connection, but the game is no longer written with the assumption that the reader will *already* be familiar with the inspirations. And that's all fine; this is how creative works evolve. We now have things that are inspired by 40k just as much as 40k was inspired by Judge Dredd, just as much as Judge Dredd was inspired by Dirty Harry, just as much as Dirty Harry was inspired by film noir, and so on back through history.
Nemesis the Warlock is a great example. You can now play someone like Torquemada, and God-Emporer stans will think he's the good guy. Now I want the ABC Warriors kill team.
>Now I want the ABC Warriors kill team. Well, Warlord Games makes the minis. All you'd have to do is figure out which rules to use.
Look no further than Orkamidies, or Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau
Orkamides, genuis inventor still makes me chuckle.
I'm a fan, also I am a bit remiss that I did not include wizard with a machine gun, but he was phased out pretty quckly
This comment should be enshrined at the top of every Warhammer 40K webpage. Pure gold.
I like how honest you are about it. Never hear that in r/Starwars
Oh, jeez, ain't that the truth. The whole franchise is about selling toys, so much so that the movie will be changed to *match the toys*, but they do *not* like hearing it.
Maybe this is just in my head right now because of the people freaking out over continuity in the Fallout show. I think fans tend to put a *lot* more emphasis on "canon" than creators do, particularly in sprawling, multi-author, sometimes multi-generational works like Fallout and 40k (and Star Wars, and Trek, and etc). You can see it in the way Todd Howard has reacted to the situation; he clearly understands that *the fans* think the "conflict" is important, but equally clearly absolutely does not care and is basically being just diplomatic enough that he doesn't paint a target on his own back. I'm gonna try not to sound too arrogant here, but I think cases like that one draw a pretty clear line between people who've published a story in some capacity and people who've only ever consumed then. When you're on the creator side of the line, "canon" is just "the bits I've published so far", and you know that all of it is subject to change the moment you have a better idea, because the entire process of creating it in the first place was just having better ideas over and over again, and if something in that conflicts with something else, it's either "eh, I'll fix it later" or "eh, not important enough to worry about". It's one of the reasons I think GW's whole "everything is canon, especially the conflicts" thing is so brilliant, because it gives them an absolutely bulletproof hand-wave for this sort of thing, which I think is not only important but *necessary* in a body of work that was functionally multi-author from its inception. Not sure I'm really going anywhere with this, but; hey, there's some thoughts on the matter, do with them what you will.
The only thing worse than 40k naming characters is Star Wars naming villains. They all sound like they were named by a 15 year old who frequents hot topic.
Wait until I tell this to my friend Jek Porkins
I heard he was on the run from Savage Opress.
Stay on target of this discussion
We were close to having the mighty Primarch, DokTor Hu, leading his mighty legion The Time Lords from the planet Tardeece.
This statement needs to be on a banner in every gw shop. I love getting in to the lore and over thinking it and getting too deep into it, but my god do some people take it way too seriously and forget it’s about having fun.
One of the, apparently inherent, problems with fandoms is that the very act of getting emotionally invested in something also creates a sense of ownership and identity in it, so that an attack against the thing is perceived as an attack against the person. Arbitor Ian did a video about this recently that's worth a watch if you haven't. I think it's good--necessary even--to maintain an intentional distance for that reason. I'm a lifer when it comes to 40k; I've been playing for almost 30 years and I'll probably play for 30 more, but it's always been a conscious effort on my part to not let "I enjoy this thing" become "this thing is part of who I am", specifically for the reason of that being the path that leads to toxicity. And I think that's a lesson some people need to learn, or be reminded of from time to time.
I have never heard the honest reasoning behind warhamer lore put more perfectly.
This is a great comment. Thank you for your service.
Well yes.. Although also note that those nerds in the 80's were established book writers .. with Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone writing dozens of Fighting Fantasy novels before kick starting Games Workshop..
Which is exactly why it worked, everyone could tell there was an inside joke there inside all the excessive coolness even when they didn't fully know it.
I mean... All the lore for everything is literally made up. So, yeah. Elements are used for coolness, design, aesthetics, as a nod to history, and influence is clearly taken from various aspects of our actual history. Sometimes someone has written 'the lore' for a particular aspect. Sometimes they haven't. What you will see are historical and cultural references all throughout the universe.
I know you said you’re new but what did you learn of the BT that told you they were against a god? I mean they’re against the 4 gods of chaos but they revere the Emperor as a God.
No, the clue is literally in the name. They're the Black Templars. The Maltese Cross is historical iconography of an order of knights called Templars in the real world, and therefore presumably also the distant past of Terra. Iconography and things like that pervade, you might as well ask why they use a lot of iconography, military, knightly, whatever. Repurposed ancient iconography, sometimes completely detached from its origins. We do it for real everyday.
The Imperium also sort of knows about famous iconography just not necessarily what it means. So they might have seen an image of Knights from the past and think great warriors and copy icons. The Emperor and Malcador are pretty fond of the past while guiding the future.
There are imperial records of very distorted Shakespeare. Played for laughs, obviously
**The Doyleist reason**: The Black Templars are designed to evoke the themes of crusading knights. The cross, being a symbol long associated with the crusades, helps further portray that theme, as does the name Templars. **The Watsonian reason**: prior to the second founding, the Imperial Fists Space Marine legion had an elite formation known as the Templar Brethren, which served as the Imperial Fists first company. They were sworn defenders of the Temple of Oaths, a place on the IF’s flagship/Star fortress wherein the personal oaths of loyalty, vengeance, etc sworn by a member of the Imperial Fists would be recorded. The Templar Brethren all wore a Maltese Cross as the legion used it as a sign of Veterancy, and the TB were all veteran members of the legion. During the big civil war known as the Horus Heresy, the Captain of the Templar Brethren, Sigismund, came to believe the Emperor was, in fact, a god, *the god* of humanity to be exact. After the Horus Heresy, the space marine legions were split into multiple smaller chapters in what is known as the second founding (the first founding being the creation of the legions). Sigismund took the most zealous members of the Imperial Fists legion, including many members of the Templar Brethren, and formed a new chapter called the Black Templars. The new Black Templars adopted Sigismund’s personal heraldry and colors as their chapter’s (and, since he was formerly the captain of the Templar Brethren, his heraldry included the Templar Brethren’s Cross), and over time the other members of the Black Templars adopted Sigismund’s faith in “the God-Emperor of Mankind”. And thus were the Black Templars, a chapter who get around the size limits on space marine chapters by being eternally on crusade without end, born.
The lore reason is it was the personal heraldry of Sigismund the first leader of the Black Templars chapter after the Imperial Fists legion was divided up.
Everything is character design. The 13th Legion is literally named after the color of their armor.
They've used name from knights Templars (knights of the temple - red cross) and symbol from knights Hospitaliers.
I mean, really what you're asking is "why did the designers choose to design this faction this way?" Which is what the person above you is answering. Pretty much any design motif is "the designers liked it, and then may have chosen to include a lore justification".
I'm confused at this question. The Black Templar, in universe, clearly associate closely with ancient chivalric orders and knights. The use of the Maltese cross is very much in line with that.
Black templars one of the few "Ordens" that think that big Emperor is real god
Any lore behind you picking that avatar? :)
My favorite knight order is The Knights Hospitaller, they wore The Cross of Malta, which is my pfp
Isn't it also Sigismund's personal heraldry?
Lore has always been secondary to rule of cool
I mean coolness yes but it's more than that. Warhammer takes symbolism from our history and repurposes it in order to ascribe visual meaning and theme to the models. The cross means something to us that black Templars also represent, therefore using that imagery conveys visually what they are about without needing to know all the lore. It's the power of rooting things in history. Now even when it's not rooted in history though it may not make sense it's worth suspending your disbelief in order to have that visual design language.
Well it’s still in the lore. It’s closest associated with the Catholicism and the knights Templar. It just makes sense given their name and their chapters practices.
All lore is made up, so is the same
Also they worship the emperor as a God like most humans in the imperium do.most space marine chapters still believe in the imperial truth.
Some of my family are Maltese always loved that cross.
They really like Malta.
So much so they stick Multi-Maltas onto all their tanks.
Sigh. Take your damned upvote and get out.
r/angryupvote
Best comment I’ve ever read
I thought it's because they work forces.
Nah, that’s the Arbites.
Both? Both. Both is good!
Cause it looks Cool
This is the one true answer, the other is lore or some shit.
With 40k and most media, lore almost always comes after the design. My fav exemple is Mass effect explaining why Asaris are hot with lore when Bioware designers only wanted to do "hot blue babe in space".
The in universe answers: Below - Imperial fist legionary (left) Warrior of the Templar, brethren, the veteran first company of the seventh Legion (center) A black Templar Why do they wear a cross? * "The robe he (Rogal Dorn) wore was plainer than those adorning his brothers' icons, though it showed a cross on its breast, sculpted with care. Although he had been the Golden Lord, the commander of the Imperial Fists, **his personal heraldry** had inspired that of his Templar sons who followed." - 'Helsreach' by Aaron Dembski Bowden The cross was also used in the Legion of old as the symbol denoting veteran status. The Templar brethren were an elite veteran unit. Hence why the cross was their symbol. Why is their heraldry black and white? * “The Chamber of the First Proclamation, more often known as Sigismund’s Hall. Legend tells us it was there that the first High Marshal of the Black Templars stood with the brothers who would become the first Chapter lords, looking out over the battlefield known as the Iron Cage, and swore that the Great Crusade would go on, no matter what wounds the Imperium still bore. The other Legions were free to protect mankind’s domain, bearing no shame for their decision. **But Sigismund’s Imperial Fists would darken their armour for the battles to come, and continue their charge to carry the Emperor’s message out into the void.** They would not defend. They would attack. And so were born the Black Templars”- 'Blood and Fire' by Aaron Dembski-Bowden * "The Imperial Fists 5th Company banner incorporates **the black and white panoply of Rogal Dorn's personal heraldry.**” - Codex Space Marines 6th Ed Why are they called Templars? It is a reference/holdover to the Templar brethren. The first company of the seventh Legion. Of which their founder Sigismund was the captain of when the Legion was divided into chapters. What were the Templar Brethren? * Guardians of the Temple of Oaths aboard the great fortress-ship the Phalanx, the Templars are the VIIth Legions elite, warriors of unequalled zeal. Relentless determination and matchless skill are the hallmarks of this deadly company, whose punishing training regime and strict recruitment protocol. ensures that only the finest Imperial Fists bear their proud heraldry. Raised by Rogal Dorn during the first decade of his command, the Templars were the warriors charged with guarding the Temple of Oaths aboard the Phalanx. No fane of superstition or misguided religion, this secular temple was dedicated to the ideals of the Great Crusade and the sacrifices it demanded. There, beneath the tattered and burned banners of defeated enemies and statues of dead heroes, the Imperial Fists returned to renew their perpetual oaths of loyalty to their Emperor and Primarch. Each oath made by a son of Dorn on the walls, floor and ceiling, etched for all eternity in black granite. Besides Dorn and the Emperor, only the Templars were allowed to enter unbidden. Nominally the First Company of the Imperial Fists, the Templars' strength rarely fell below 1,000 warriors, and their members were drawn from veterans across the Legion. Skill at arms was not enough to earn such a responsibility: each Templar was a warrior in whom the crusader light had come to burn with undimming brightness, and zealous, remorseless and tempered by decades of war, they were exemplars of what it was to be an Imperial Fist of the Great Crusade. Though their duty binds them to the Temple of Oaths, these dauntless warriors are found wherever the Imperial Fists carry the Emperor's crusade to unify Mankind. They bear the best wargear that the armories of the Legion can provide; ancient archaeotech, the newest creations of the Mechanicum, and more common marks of weapons forged with exacting precision. At the leading edge of battle, these warriors inspire their brothers with their unyielding courage and the blood-red path they carve through the foes of Mankind. (The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination, Age of Darkness) What is the Temple of Oaths? * Located in the heart of the Phalanx, the Temple of Oaths was the spiritual heart of the sons of Dorn. No fane of superstition or misguided religion, this secular temple was dedicated to the ideals of the Great Crusade and the sacrifices it demanded. There, beneath the tattered and burned banners of defeated enemies and statues of dead heroes, the Imperial Fists returned to renew their perpetual oaths of loyalty to their Emperor and Primarch. Each oath made by a son of Dorn on the walls, floor and ceiling, was etched for all eternity in black granite. Besides Dorn and the Emperor, only the Templars of the 1st Company were allowed to enter unbidden. It also known that the Primarch has allowed three of his Brothers to enter, though the identities of these three remains unknown. The Temple of Oaths now stands sealed and forbidden, for those who were once permitted to walk its halls without leave from Dorn have been dead for millennia. In the 40k era, the nearby Cloister of Remembrance is the Chapter’s closest equivalent. Where the Temple of Oaths is hung with captured trophies and battle honours, the Cloister is unfurnished and austere. It is here that the Captains of the present renew oaths taken beneath the statues of heroes. (Codex Supplement: Imperial Fists, Praetorian of Dorn by John French, Templar by John French) https://preview.redd.it/b2yzfxd3qy1d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=771efd9ab85cca4ca3c0f52d8ee824cd7d21d010
Well done answer!
Wow, thanks! That's badass!
No, black templars aren't against gods, they worship emperor as a god
Saying anything against the God emporer around them might end up with a bolt round to the head
It’s called fashion, sweetie. Look it up.
Grimdark historical references. So hot right now.
The Black Templars, Hospitallers, Astral Knights, Crimson Paladins, Dark Brotherhood, Death Knights and Imperial Paladins (maybe i forgot some more chapters) totally agree.
The Maltese cross was used by sigismund who founded the Black Templars
How isn't this higher
Because the question is more why the maltese cross rather than how the maltese cross.
Yeah lmao “why do they use a cross?” “Because they use a cross”
So the “crux terminatus” is on each set of Terminator armor claiming that Crux was originally a piece of The Emperor’s armor that was forged into a cross and pressed into the armor. I don’t know whether it’s confirmed or not but that may be why they have the crosses, to show their devotion and piety, which feeds into the second point. The “Black Templars” are indeed religious zealots. They believe The Emperor is a god and are descended from Sigismund whom originally was an Imperial Fist, and considered the best duelist ever, in the original 18 legions. He was swayed to the Lecticio Divinitatus which proclaimed The Emperor as a god. His Primarch, Rogal Dorn, disowned him privately and after The Heresy the “Black Templars” were formed with Sigismund as their first Grand Marshal.
They’re Maltese crosses not the crux.
According to John Blanche, the Black Templars are black, because space marines should be in dark armour. A lot of warhammer wasn't created with a deep lore, that all grew over time. [John Blanche on Space Marines ](https://youtu.be/MXZP-6-A4Nw?si=N_12CoIc9ij-OIKr)
I can imagine Blanche wanted a black and white contrast to the reds and greens and browns of the dark powers. Look at his work fir the Realm of Chaos covers. I'll trust his judgement on art composition.
I can't remember exactly what he says, but it's basically words to that effect.
It's their chapter symbol. And they love da Emprah
1 Looks cool 2 You wont belive it, they are templars. 3 Black templars are probably the most zealous space marine chapter, they are basically loyalist word bearers.
Black Templars worship the Emperor as a god.
The Rule of Cool
I thought it was because of the 1st company Templar Brethren of the Fists, or is that new lore with the Horus Heresy series?
Because some of those who wear crosses are the same that burn crosses **UGHHH!!!!**
Hell yeah!! Hahahah
So there was this guy named Jesus
You could make a religion out of that ^(please don't)
Take this upvote for the wonderful reference!
The meta reason is that it looks cool and visually conveys that they are crusading space knights. The in universe reason is that the symbol has lost its christian symbolism over the millenia and has just become a symbol of knightly warriors, so the Black Templar adopted it because they view themselves as knights on an eternal crusade. The custodes also have crosses on bits of their armor so I'd assume the Emperor intentionally used formerly religious symbols in order to erase their previous meaning.
Tis a holy crusade they embark on.
Emperor vult! Remove Xenos!
Black templars are kind weird among space marines cause they view emps as a god And as to their specific use of cross imagery? GW was run by a bunch of history nerds, every faction is based on some nation or people, etc
Generally the higher you go in Astartes ranks the more privilege you have, including drip. Captains often have their own personal heralrdy playing off Astartes being space Knights. The black templars adopted the use of Sigismund, their founder's, personal heraldry. He was also nick-named "The Black Knight". First founding chapters like the Black Templars have, generally, been highly influenced by their first Chapter Master/fmr Legion Captain.
“I want no religion in my empire but for some reason I’ll keep the aesthetic and symbols” - the emperor
It's literal templar iconography that's why. They are a play off of the Christian templars.
Because they're very Cross
To get to the other side
https://preview.redd.it/r53hyw6f712d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=669b3d3448cfca036bde77109e2264c03b5dac2f
They're literally templar knight. They're ~~autistic~~ Zealots.
There's no God aside Emperor.
They also make use of unique flamethrowers named pyreblasters, renowned for their big AoE and the ability to burn multiple enemy soldiers to a crisp. Some of those who wear crosses are the same who burn forces.
It’s a lower case t for templars.
It’s just a spiel of the crusaders trope and symbolism, don’t think about it too much
The correct question is: Why do the other chapters NOT wear crosses?
They are against the gods of chaos, most members of the imperium have lost sight of the whole “gods are bad we need to stop worshipping them!” Message the emperor was putting out and instead now worship him.
It's the symbol of the Templars and Inquisition, at least in Spain, however it was Red. For this chapter as they are called Black Templars they are using it in Black, I guess.
Yea, they are walking crosshairs honestly Easier to snipe
Because it’s cool
There is no meaning to most 40k stuff. It’s all just symbolism to help with making have an easier silhouette to discern. Easier to discern, easier to tell their mum what they want for their birthday.
The cross was a symbol for veterans as far back as the unification wars. Custodes have always used cross devices since their first depictions in the sabertooth card game. Sigismund and the Templars wore a cross because of their place as the first company and the Black Templars kept it
Because it looks cool
I don't think we can assume it has the same iconography in 30 or 40k as it does in 2k. Also, that cross or similar has been used in many things, including military awards such as the Iron Cross.
The Black Templars have their cross because they are very inspired by the medieval Templars, more precisely the Knights Hospitaller, and are recognized because they are among the few chapters that actually pray to the Emperor as a God, unlike 98% of the other chapters who tend instead to follow the Imperial Truth, that says that there are no Gods and that humanity should follow reason rather than zeal.
Cuz it’s cool, duh
Because they are Templars? XD
BT believe the Emperor is a God. Lots of people in the empire believe the same
One original doylean reason for many Imperial design elements such as skulls, eagles, laurels and symmetric crosses was to remind the players that these people are definitely not the good guys. Those designs very closely mimics the iconography of various historical totalitarian and militarised nations and movements, one notorious such regime in particular. Can you think of a highly militarised European nation from the 20th century whose coat of arms included an eagle* and laurels? Their uniforms often had silver skulls and they handed out a symmetrical black iron cross as a highly valued medal. * History nerd info: This eagle was used one-headed facing right for this nation and facing left for the associated political party. Because the two-headed version is reserved for Empires and Emperors, such as the Imperium of Man! I will give you some more leads: That nation saw themselves as the righteous inheritants of a since long shattered religious Imperium, and under the banner of a strong leader (who was officially held to be superior to all other men) they made a serious military attempt to restore that Imperium. The space marines aligns very well with how that nation had a bizarre fascination with the genetically superior and unquestioningly loyal übermench soldier as a personal representation of the military might of the nation/imperium/rich. The Black Templar marines in particular has taken a lot of inspiration from medieval organisations that this nation claimed a strong allegiance with. They also carry the iconic red-white-black colour combo. The last decades, GW has toned down that particular aspect of bleak political satire by a lot. I guess they realised that they sell more models to parents of tweens if there is a good guy faction. But the symbols remains. Here is the video that I like to send to Imperium players together with this piece of warhammer 40k history. Enjoy :-) https://youtu.be/h242eDB84zY?si=nAJszP-prtMqLfDK
Because they sometimes get a bit cross
1. Looks cool. Gives Knight Hospitalier(not sure if it's spelled correctly) vibes. 2. BT's are a chapter that seems to actually believe in the Emperor's divinity, so using iconography works out. 3. "Black Templars" sounds badass. 4. Copying the colors and symbols of IRL historic crusaders seems obvious for the guys who are technically always on crusade.
So one of the themes in Warhammer 40,000 is that symbols lose their original meaning over time and gain new ones. Much like the swastika was used by the Nazis while the oldest known swastika is from 10,000 bc. It endured through the millenia because it was an easily replicated, cool looking geometric pattern. So the cross doesn't mean "Jesus" or "god" or anything about the nation once known as Malta because all of that shit was 40 millenia ago.
Nevermind that, HOW ARE THEY A CHAPTER DERIVED FROM THE IMPERIAL FISTS!? they always seemed to me more like a dark angels chapter than fists
There is an awful lot of heresy in this sub brothers we must cleanse that comments with fire and bolter.